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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 18th, 2008

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MinceRgnNov 18 00:09
schestowitzSymantec's John Thompson to retire as CEO < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/... >Nov 18 00:28
PetoKraushmm, just letting you know: http://pk.gjhak.skNov 18 00:43
schestowitzNice. What does Bergy have to do with this/Nov 18 00:45
PetoKrausinspirationNov 18 00:47
PetoKrausthe final kick was today's paperNov 18 00:48
schestowitzThis is nice: http://pk.gjhak.sk/old/Nov 18 00:48
PetoKrausdaily telegraph or what was itNov 18 00:48
schestowitzPaper?Nov 18 00:48
schestowitzWhat did it say?Nov 18 00:48
PetoKrausi can't rememberNov 18 00:48
PetoKraus:P though it kind of enraged meNov 18 00:48
PetoKrausi'll have to re-read it and write about it ;)Nov 18 00:49
PetoKrausanyway, tomorrow i gotta get up early. see youNov 18 00:49
schestowitzOkay, I look forward to it. http://pk.gjhak.sk/pages/feed.xml "The requested URL /pages/feed.xml was not found on this server."  :-((Nov 18 00:51
PetoKrausyup, i moved thatNov 18 00:51
PetoKrausbad meNov 18 00:51
PetoKraus:)Nov 18 00:51
PetoKrausit's in /old/pages/feed.xmlNov 18 00:52
schestowitzOK, got it, thanks.Nov 18 00:55
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kentmahey schestowitzNov 18 07:43
*kentma waves to RoyNov 18 07:43
schestowitzACKNov 18 08:46
schestowitz"MSFT19.320.000.00%"Nov 18 08:51
kentmahi roy - Did you post very few News items yesterday, btw?Nov 18 08:56
schestowitzThere was a gap on Sat/Sun.Nov 18 08:57
kentmaah, okay... no worries.  I was just concerned that there might be a bug in my scriptNov 18 09:01
MinceRoh haiNov 18 09:14
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schestowitzBoycottt Novell protest videos: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lhATFqM0TngNov 18 10:56
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schestowitzBoycott Novell motion pictures. ;-) http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/f...Nov 18 12:16
kentmaschestowitz: london hospitals' systems shut down by virusNov 18 12:18
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schestowitzWHAT?Nov 18 12:22
schestowitzkentma: got URL?Nov 18 12:22
schestowitzWas it pneumonia? ;-p or Blaster?Nov 18 12:23
kentmanot sure - it just came up on News 24;  barts, royal london and one other hospital affected apparently.  It's reported that systems have been down for 24 hours so farNov 18 12:23
schestowitzNot surprising. Nov 18 12:25
schestowitzThere are many Mac users in London; prepare for some big pressure for change.Nov 18 12:25
schestowitz[not that GNU/Linux are a less vocal group]Nov 18 12:26
kentmatrue;  I'm waiting for some further confirmation of the story - it doesn't seem to have hit ceefax or the web sites yet.Nov 18 12:27
kentmaIncidentally, real piracy is becoming  a major international issue around Somalia - it's about time the music and film industries stopped trying to characterise people who make an illicit copy of a CD as akin in some way to murderous kidnappers making ransom demands for €£millions.Nov 18 12:30
schestowitzYes, I've been reading about that. I call them Mafiaa now.Nov 18 12:35
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_dougMicrosoft penguin .. :)Nov 18 13:40
_doughttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/11/congr...Nov 18 13:40
schestowitzYes, seen it. Maybe they "didn't know". ;-)Nov 18 13:41
schestowitzLinux stole Microsoft's mascot too.Nov 18 13:41
schestowitzLook at the logo of Mono.Nov 18 13:42
schestowitzWell, Mono is Microsoft's anyway, so...Nov 18 13:42
_douggot a URL for the mono mascot, or any other examples of MS borrowing the other fellas logo ?Nov 18 13:51
schestowitzPosted Posted half an hour ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/...Nov 18 13:52
MinceR"They are indeed open source, but they are not licensed by Microsoft to run anywhere but in SLED."Nov 18 13:55
MinceRdon't people read the OSD anymore?Nov 18 13:56
MinceR8. License Must Not Be Specific to a ProductNov 18 13:56
schestowitzSpecific... define specific.Nov 18 13:56
schestowitzSpecific implementation... or patent coverage? GPLv2 loophole..Nov 18 13:57
schestowitzRonH and SteveB spent some time thinking this through... how to give the finger to their supplier's movement and get away with it.Nov 18 13:57
MinceRthe OSD is not a legal text, it must be interpreted according to its spirit.Nov 18 14:13
schestowitzMicrosoft and Novell have no spirit. They have shareholders.Nov 18 14:14
MinceRstill, this makes Mono non-open source.Nov 18 14:15
_dougYahoo CEO Yang to step down ..Nov 18 14:17
_doughttp://news.cnet.com/...Nov 18 14:17
schestowitzPushed out?Nov 18 14:17
schestowitzThe Microsoft cronies will take over.Nov 18 14:17
_doug"Yang will resume his position as chief Yahoo"Nov 18 14:17
_dougWhat's a "chief Yahoo" :)Nov 18 14:18
schestowitzSounds like Cheerleader. Yoohoo.Nov 18 14:20
schestowitzMicrosoft has already pointed the company with its cronies... executives, board members, etc. He probably got pushed out by them.Nov 18 14:21
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schestowitzUsing technology for a 'good' cause.. killing people..  Grenade camera to aid UK troops < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tec... >Nov 18 14:26
MinceRthe planet is overpopulated anywayNov 18 14:26
MinceRthe difficult part is choosing whom to killNov 18 14:26
schestowitzI don't agree.Nov 18 14:26
schestowitzI'm in favour of birth control. Death is emotional and atrocious.Nov 18 14:27
MinceRwhat some people do is atrocious tooNov 18 14:27
MinceRkilling them would end the atrocitiesNov 18 14:27
schestowitzDoes birth control reduce the population in China? Was it effective or are rules ignored?Nov 18 14:27
schestowitzMinceR: the people who do atrocious things are a tiny minority.Nov 18 14:27
schestowitzThe vast majority is working class or 'peasants'.Nov 18 14:28
MinceRstill, i'm in favor of killing ballmer, gates, jobs and their partners in crime.Nov 18 14:28
schestowitzSuggesting death (goodness forbid!) is punishing those who are abused.Nov 18 14:28
MinceRthey keep wasting valuable oxygen anyway.Nov 18 14:28
schestowitzMinceR: you can't say that here.Nov 18 14:28
MinceR:)Nov 18 14:28
MinceRsorry.Nov 18 14:28
schestowitzChanging subjects..Nov 18 14:29
schestowitzI'm reading about Yang now...Nov 18 14:29
schestowitzIt has already spread through the channels all morning. He planned it a month ago.Nov 18 14:29
schestowitz[and I can't help recalling all the Microsoft executives leaving to join Yahoo. Yahoo board member Icahn and his 2 board cronies would approve, no? ;-) ]Nov 18 14:30
schestowitzThat's why I hate the US system. It should be hated by all Americans too, but they get told comforting words like "democracy". It lulls them to sleep.Nov 18 14:31
MinceRfunny how the reason for stepping down was said to be his failure to sell to microsoftNov 18 14:31
MinceRi thought he didn't want to do that.Nov 18 14:31
schestowitzIntel, which instead of coming to OLPC and asking "how can we help?" went behind the project's back and schemed to destroy if, as if they pondered, "how can we ruin?" That's not healthy capitalism. It's extreme, it's predatory, it's bad and it's destructive. It's not competition and it only harms the customers.Nov 18 14:31
MinceRcapitalism around this planet has long ago stopped being healthyNov 18 14:31
schestowitzMinceR: he didn't want to do that. Microsoft had people all around him vexed up, probably even investors who sued (on whose behalf?)Nov 18 14:32
MinceRperhaps the crisis will help motivate governments to fix itNov 18 14:32
schestowitzThey sat on Yahoo for about 7 months and had people so distracted that managers left and projects got derailed that way.Nov 18 14:32
schestowitzThe current crisis affects my family very negatively troo.Nov 18 14:33
schestowitz*tooNov 18 14:33
schestowitzPeople who I speak to lost a lot. They just don't talk about it openly, just discreetly.Nov 18 14:33
schestowitzNow you know who picks up the bill for NASA missions, 'war' in Iraq, tax Microsoft refuses to pay, etc. :-)Nov 18 14:34
schestowitzMicrosoft's downgrade of Vista Capable specs ticked off HP < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu... >Nov 18 14:35
schestowitz"I see from the announcement on the OEM website that the rumor I referred to in my earlier message is indeed true."Nov 18 14:36
schestowitz"You should understand that for a partner who has made a significant investment in meeting the Vista Capable requirement we find it both disappointing and troubling that you would make such a decision without first consulting HP, your biggest global partner."Nov 18 14:36
schestowitz"I am beyond being upset here. This was totally mismanaged by Intel and Microsoft. What a mess. Now we have an upset partner, Microsoft destroyed credibility, as well as my own credibility shot."Nov 18 14:36
schestowitzIn other news, ARM and Adobe join up [on GNU/Linux devices] < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer... >Nov 18 14:37
schestowitzhttp://davidgerard.co.uk/notes/200...Nov 18 14:42
schestowitzBN in the press: http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/1...Nov 18 14:45
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/2... "While lots of folks are trying to blame one single thing (free markets, regulations, greed, poor people, rich people, bankers, mortgage lenders, hedge funds, short sellers, the President, Congress, etc.), the truth is that almost all of those explanations aren't just wrong, they're highly misleading."Nov 18 14:57
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schestowitzSJVN says: With Yang out, is Microsoft in at Yahoo? < http://blogs.computerworld.com/with_yang... >Nov 18 15:00
schestowitzBN broke the news :-)  Hurtful Google Docs Study Tied To Ex-Microsoft Employees < http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/... >Nov 18 15:04
schestowitz"In a comment on Cutts' blog, Roy Schestowitz, a doctoral candidate in medical biophysics at Manchester University, free software advocate, and co-editor of BoycottNovell.com, linked to a post on his site that offered an additional explanation for the findings: Two of ClickStream's employees, CEO and co-founder Cameron Turner and senior research analyst Kim Anderson, used to work at Microsoft."Nov 18 15:04
schestowitz Burma blogger jailed for 20 years < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi... >Nov 18 15:13
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schestowitzDWW... http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&... "While there is a chance that someone would take over (prendre le relais, that is), I am not sure that this will happen soon enough. Will Susan have the time and inspiration to do it? Is Caitlyn willing to help, by chance? Would someone else (say, Eugenia L-Q) wish to contribute?"Nov 18 15:35
schestowitzneighborlee: check out http://boycottnovell.com/200...Nov 18 15:36
schestowitzOr http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/11/...Nov 18 15:36
neighborleeok thxNov 18 15:36
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neighborleeWhy in hell is Ubuntu installing this stuff by default, I don’t know. It’s like asking the local protection racket over for tea < ROFLNov 18 15:38
schestowitzBN made a strong appearance in two 'press' articles today, which is good.Nov 18 15:38
neighborlee:)Nov 18 15:38
schestowitzCarry on pushing them.Nov 18 15:38
neighborleewho is alan anyway ?Nov 18 15:39
schestowitzThe Mono Guards are /WRONG/ and they try to convince themselves that nothing's awry.Nov 18 15:39
schestowitzAlan Lord. I don't know him much... he's in UK education thinggies.Nov 18 15:39
neighborleeonly people that matters to , are those ignorant of all of this that they can convert,,which equates to immoral behavior..all that which is part of M$, so I guess they should all congratulate themselves ;)Nov 18 15:40
schestowitzThey try to convince other people too.Nov 18 15:40
schestowitzLull them..Nov 18 15:40
neighborleeand for us its just more e vidence of the corruption and why all this stuff should be avoided..its just more nails in their coffins.Nov 18 15:40
schestowitzIt's good that the press cites us a lot these days. This leads to validation, which makes it hard to opponents of BN to shoot the messenger. They tried.Nov 18 15:41
schestowitzMicrosoft does anothing new nasty.Nov 18 15:41
neighborleeyup :)Nov 18 15:41
schestowitzI'm going to write about it later.Nov 18 15:41
schestowitzIn short, people escape to Google et alNov 18 15:41
schestowitzI got a message from my cousin in Florida 2 hours ago.Nov 18 15:41
schestowitzIt went like this:Nov 18 15:42
schestowitz"Is it possible to insert a Power Point Presentation on my website?Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzThey are becoming more popular lately and some of them are excellent.Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzMostly they are informational and include tours of cities, natural wonders,Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzor nature and wildlife etc.Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzI have saved several in a folder, awaiting the day I could figure out how toNov 18 15:42
schestowitzshare them with viewers, but I haven’t figured that out yet."Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzSo I pointed him at Google Apps.Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzI wrote: "Have a look at Google AppsNov 18 15:42
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/busi...Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzPut your presentations there. You can then embed them in the site.Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzYou don't need Microsoft Office anymore. Google Apps is better."Nov 18 15:42
schestowitzSo, in short, as you can see, as people start blogs and all, it's only natural to do MASHUPS... and you need something that's Web based to be achievable.Nov 18 15:43
schestowitzNow, here's the thing.Nov 18 15:43
schestowitzMicrosoft knows that people like my cousin can throw their documents at Google Apps and be happyNov 18 15:43
neighborleeThey are indeed open source, but they are not licensed by Microsoft to run anywhere but in SLED. < this is I think where they try to fool people of course but it hasn't worked.Nov 18 15:43
schestowitzThat's why they made OOXML (among other reasons)Nov 18 15:43
schestowitzOOXML won't work with Google Apps.Nov 18 15:44
schestowitzAnd now.. they produce bogus anti-Google Apps studies again...Nov 18 15:44
schestowitzI wrote about this 2 days ago.Nov 18 15:44
neighborleethats why ive been so adament about this novel thing because its from the same great lovely people behind things like OOXML..I know long ago it was all a major scam.Nov 18 15:44
schestowitzBN's post about it got cited by ComputerWorld and InformationWeek.Nov 18 15:44
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/so... http://blogs.computerworld.com/another_day_a...Nov 18 15:45
schestowitzIt's amazing how little traffic 'big' sites get.Nov 18 15:45
neighborleeThe only thing I dont get , is why fedora takes moonlight off its restricted app list, but mono isn't listed there ,,any idea on that one ?Nov 18 15:45
schestowitzI see the referral numbers. They are miniscule. Same with Mary Jo Foley's blog. She cited this post too.Nov 18 15:45
schestowitzYou can show your friends in Ubuntu Forums this about Novell (BN in the press): http://www.infoworld.com/article/08...Nov 18 15:46
schestowitzRegarding Fedora, people are still watching.Nov 18 15:46
neighborleewell its obvious..bottom line is as noted here by others is $$$,,people like HEX depend on all this stuff working because he does c# for a living so its not rocket science that they scour forums trying to convince people of mono's merits ;))Nov 18 15:47
schestowitzI think the war of words will carry on for quite some time. But BN was never alone.Nov 18 15:47
schestowitzGroklaw was opposing Mono before BN was conceived, IIRC.Nov 18 15:47
schestowitzThat is... before Novell signed a patent deal involving Mono.Nov 18 15:47
neighborleehmm didnt know that.Nov 18 15:47
schestowitzThe proponents of Mono try to attribute opposition only to BNNov 18 15:48
schestowitzThat's bollox.Nov 18 15:48
schestowitzIt's trivialisation of a known issue.Nov 18 15:48
neighborleeyeah well we all know that..but its good talking point for them because it attempts to make those that follow bn look like the proveribal zeals :)Nov 18 15:48
schestowitzAlan has a faker in his blog, claiming to be me and making it seem like I am responsible for everything-mono that's negative.Nov 18 15:49
neighborleebut it works with some people that dont follow such things for reasons  which are many im sure,,time is a big one for many people , they dont have time to look into all this mess so they just go along ...Nov 18 15:49
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schestowitzHey, Omar87 Nov 18 15:49
schestowitzHave you seen my post about Jordan?Nov 18 15:49
Omar87Hi, schestowitz. :)Nov 18 15:50
Omar87schestowitz: That's what I wanted to ask you aboutNov 18 15:50
schestowitzMicrosoft insults the people of Jordan: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/mi...Nov 18 15:50
Omar87schestowitz: I can't seem to find anything about Jordan itself, except it's name being mentioned.Nov 18 15:51
schestowitzhttp://www.gulfnews.com/business/Tech...Nov 18 15:51
neighborleeschestowitz,if you can show this groklaw evidence that would go a huge way to dispelling BN myths..Nov 18 15:52
Omar87schestowitz: Yeah, I saw that, but that's Oman, and Amman. :)Nov 18 15:52
schestowitzWhich evidence?Nov 18 15:52
schestowitzAh, that comment? I'll send it over.Nov 18 15:52
schestowitzDoneNov 18 15:53
Omar87Oman, NOT Amman.Nov 18 15:53
schestowitzOg!Nov 18 15:53
schestowitzI did a Google search before posting.. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie...Nov 18 15:54
Omar87schestowitz: However, it also applies to Jordan too.Nov 18 15:54
schestowitzAnd there were some results. :--(Nov 18 15:54
schestowitzIt's fixed now.Nov 18 15:55
Omar87schestowitz: What you may not believe is that, unlike China, the Jordanian government NEVER showed any intent to fight piracy and copyright infringement. :)Nov 18 15:55
schestowitzWhy would it?Nov 18 15:56
Omar87schestowitz: Buying and selling Copied and Pirated CD's is 10000% legal.Nov 18 15:56
schestowitzTo Microsoft, it's sharing.Nov 18 15:56
schestowitzIt suppresses competition.Nov 18 15:56
Omar87schestowitz: Yeah.Nov 18 15:56
schestowitzBut if Microsoft's profits decline, which they do, then it has to blame something.Nov 18 15:56
Omar87schestowitz: Exactly.Nov 18 15:57
neighborleeM$ is trying so hard with     360, but wii is winning :)Nov 18 15:58
neighborleeprroof of that is their attempt to make a 'family oriented game' in the form of that new one coming up for 360 I guess where you make your own movies or something lolNov 18 15:59
Omar87neighborlee: And don't forget PS3 too. :)Nov 18 15:59
schestowitzThey try hard to lose money.Nov 18 15:59
neighborleeyup LOLNov 18 15:59
schestowitzSoon they might give it for 'free' (not) just to show some market share.Nov 18 15:59
neighborleeOmar87, yes ps3 is even further behind atmNov 18 15:59
neighborleeheh yeah imagine that ;0-Nov 18 15:59
schestowitzXBox... how long before it loses $10 bn for the company?Nov 18 15:59
Omar87neighborlee: atm?Nov 18 15:59
schestowitzOmar87:yes, Sony loses loads too. Nintendo is happy though.Nov 18 16:00
schestowitzAnd IBM... which makes all the chips for the consoles.Nov 18 16:00
neighborlee:)Nov 18 16:00
neighborleeOmar87, well if sony lowers cost sometime of console they might start pulling even or such but hmmNov 18 16:01
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_dougEAL6+ certified system released ..Nov 18 16:01
_doughttp://www.ferret.com.au/c/Green-Hills-Softwa...Nov 18 16:01
schestowitz"THE US Government's National Information Assurance Partnership (NIAP), a collaboration between the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the National Security Agency (NSA), has formally accepted the security evaluation plan for Green Hills Software’s Integrity-178B operating system."Nov 18 16:03
schestowitzNever heard of it. Does it just boot? ;-) Kind of like Vista 7 on a netbook?Nov 18 16:03
neighborleeschestowitz, sadly, ubuntu has stuck its head in this mess not only by shipping mono out of box , but by disalllowing even civil discourse from entering into mainstream forum areas, and im not the only one to take notice of this  ( another poster mentioned this, just before they moved h is thread to recurring discussions )Nov 18 16:04
schestowitzWhy is CIOL pushing Microsoft lies?  http://www.ciol.com/Enterprise/News-Reports/...Nov 18 16:04
schestowitzCan't they write actual articles?Nov 18 16:05
neighborleeof course now also does mandriva..debian isn't nor is of course gentoo and fedora..I still wish fedora would go further and no ship it on the dvd I really dont see what they are doing by only not shipping it on livecdNov 18 16:05
schestowitzneighborlee: let's do a post about Ubuntu suppressing feedback.Nov 18 16:05
schestowitzESSENTIAL feedback.Nov 18 16:05
neighborleeI think thats long overdue yes.Nov 18 16:05
schestowitzCan you collect an example/sample of posts?Nov 18 16:06
schestowitzSomething that show the threads being closed?Nov 18 16:06
neighborleeLet mark go up in space and spread mono if it wants to ;)hahaNov 18 16:06
schestowitzAs if to say, "the Mono guards have 'resolved' the problem."Nov 18 16:06
neighborleeyupNov 18 16:06
schestowitzMission accomplished by Church of Novell.Nov 18 16:06
_dougGartner fuds Open Source litigation issue ..Nov 18 16:07
_doughttp://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry3538.htmlNov 18 16:07
schestowitzI'll CC Mark SNov 18 16:07
schestowitzHe always responds to meNov 18 16:07
neighborleeTHey just never counted on the loyal opposition to big business and immorality ;)Nov 18 16:07
_doug"companies could face a big intellectual property issue because they are using the software without understanding the IP implications of the licensing language"Nov 18 16:07
schestowitz_doug: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/g...Nov 18 16:07
_doug"Gartner found that 69 percent of companies surveyed still have no formal policy for evaluating and cataloguing OSS usage in their enterprise, opening up huge potential liabilities for intellectual-property violations"Nov 18 16:07
Omar87schestowitz: Are there any boycott novell gadgets that I can add to my Blog?Nov 18 16:08
_dougtranslation: use Open Source get an expensive lawyer on board, use 'commercial' software and woopee no lawyer fees :)Nov 18 16:08
neighborleehttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php... < first post in thread  here, last senetecne of his post..yet another person than me sees this trend of them switch such things over to recurring..this is good stuff to refer to .Nov 18 16:08
schestowitz_doug: I've added the link you gaveNov 18 16:10
schestowitzOmar87: no, no widgets. A link would help though.Nov 18 16:10
schestowitzThe site's name is self-explanatory (I didn't choose the name), so even if people don't click on it, they absorb the takeaway messageNov 18 16:11
schestowitzneighborlee: thanks. Let's get 3 examples or so..Nov 18 16:11
_doug"companies could face a big intellectual property issue because they are using the software without understanding the IP implications of the licensing language"Nov 18 16:15
_dougDidn't Microsoft validate Novells Linux ?Nov 18 16:16
schestowitzMicrosoft also validates Gartner's bank accountNov 18 16:17
_doug"Companies must have a policy for ..  identifying the intellectual property risk or supportability risk associated with using OSS. Once a policy is in place, then there must be a governance process to enforce it."Nov 18 16:17
schestowitzI'm hearing that even BillG is a Gartner investor.Nov 18 16:17
schestowitzSay nice things, or else...Nov 18 16:17
_dougSo we need to hire on a combined programmer-lawyer, but only if we use 'Open Source'Nov 18 16:17
_dougIf you use 'commercial' software, then you're safe, yea :)Nov 18 16:18
schestowitzSounds like another Microsoft-bourne Black Duck.Nov 18 16:18
schestowitzMicrosoft has a lot people running around waving words like IP and risk in relation to F/OSSNov 18 16:18
schestowitzIt often has links to Microsoft.Nov 18 16:19
schestowitzOpenLogic... CEO is a former Microsoft employeeNov 18 16:19
schestowitzSame with Black Duck...Nov 18 16:19
schestowitzGartner is a 'sibling' of Microsoft.Nov 18 16:19
_doug"The Gartner survey went onto says that lack of governance was the biggest challenge for open source users in the survey"Nov 18 16:19
_dougHow about software that don't allow the current virus/spam/phishing epidemic ?Nov 18 16:20
schestowitz"Except for any debts due to fraud while acting as a fiduciary? I honestly don't know what the rules are for sticky wickets like that, but I have a funny feeling we are going to find out in due time." < http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph... >Nov 18 16:20
_dougWhere's the governance for the next time I'm a victem of 'identity fraud' and my bank account is emptiedNov 18 16:21
schestowitzThe engineers... of the bank... not the programmers of the software.Nov 18 16:22
schestowitzkentma said he reading about London hospitals or something getting shut down due to viruses.Nov 18 16:23
schestowitzThis reminded me of a Washington/Seattle hospital becoming a massive botnet.Nov 18 16:23
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/1...Nov 18 16:24
schestowitzPC virus forces three London hospitals into computer shutdown "Three London Hospitals shut down their computer systems on Tuesday in response to a computer virus infection."Nov 18 16:24
schestowitzShould Microsoft be held liable?Nov 18 16:25
schestowitzShould Microsoft's not be held liable for people likely dead or severely ill as a result of this?Nov 18 16:25
schestowitz"The infection at Barts and London Trust was reportedly caused by the Mytob worm, which contains built-in spyware functionality. Mytob spreads by email and has the ability to plant backdoor software on compromised Windows PCs."Nov 18 16:25
schestowitzI guess this means the cracker got a copy of the NHS databases too.Nov 18 16:26
schestowitzSo where does a cybercriminal download the NHS torrents now?Nov 18 16:26
_dougliable: but all the software 'technology' is completly complaint, the lawyers have been through it with a finecomb :)Nov 18 16:27
schestowitz"When Java was not Open Source, it was not installed by default.  Wine is not installed by default.  Mono is installed by default, if we want it or not.  This needs to change.  If you want to build or run mono applications, then you can install it - it is your computer and we will not stop you."Nov 18 16:28
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Nov 18 16:29
schestowitzMiserable Republicans use lawyers: Trial of Palin E-Mail Hacker Delayed < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1540... >Nov 18 16:39
neighborleeschestowitz, http://forums.fedoraforum.org/sh... < more evidence I was refuting MONO long before I knew you..so that whole notion can be laid to rest :)  ( my post is second one down from top )Nov 18 16:43
schestowitzThanks.Nov 18 16:43
neighborleenpNov 18 16:44
schestowitzI should do a post.Nov 18 16:44
schestowitzI ponder writing about the hospital thing too, but I don't have time.Nov 18 16:44
schestowitzI'll leave it for "Eye on MS"Nov 18 16:44
schestowitzWTF? "The reasons Red Hat decided to go ahead have since been revealed. It's because of the Open Invention Network. http://gregdek.livejournal.com/4008.html " < http://forums.fedoraforum.or... >Nov 18 16:45
schestowitzHe's kidding, right?Nov 18 16:45
schestowitzDoes he not know that OIN is for the kernel only??Nov 18 16:45
neighborleeLOL yeah indeed ;))Nov 18 16:46
schestowitzThe possibility of Norway-Microsoft corruption resurfaces: http://ostatic.com/177021-blog/norway-pledges...Nov 18 16:54
*_doug has quit ()Nov 18 16:55
schestowitzneighborlee: any more links to thread suppression in Ubuntu (re: Mono)?Nov 18 16:57
neighborleenot yetNov 18 16:57
neighborleebut its quite good that it can be shown that Im not the only one saying such things, and that Im n ot a per se a schestowitz 'folllower' ( which they think gives them ammunition only because of attempts to show you as just a schill ) as can be seen from my  very early disproval of mono on fedora forum.Nov 18 17:00
schestowitzMe? Shill?Nov 18 17:00
schestowitzFor who? 'Freedom'?Nov 18 17:00
neighborleehehNov 18 17:01
schestowitzBN enjoys autonomy. Neither Shane and I are even affiliated with the FSF.Nov 18 17:02
schestowitzShane isn't even working in tech.Nov 18 17:03
schestowitzHow low Microsoft has sunk for publicity: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Declare_... ( Declare yourself a PC for just $36.95 )Nov 18 17:10
schestowitzA shirt to affiliated oneself with a multiple-times convicted monopolist.Nov 18 17:10
neighborleeschestowitz, not sure its a trend or even how long its been this way, but #fedora atm is at #450 users so I wonder if the 'no mono in fedora ' has  had some impact, hey who knows ;),,soon I shall make sure to have a link at my website too, which isn't as popular as BN on any level but Im happy to add to be a oss supporter ;)Nov 18 17:13
*anivar (i=75c069dc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5339b6983a642fbb) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 17:14
anivarschestowitz:  see my blog http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/2008/nat...Nov 18 17:14
anivari used some content u sent 4 an immediate needNov 18 17:14
anivarhope you can understandNov 18 17:15
neighborleeanivar, hi there..go you for stricking up for oss ;) ,,that must have  been hairy dealing with ;))Nov 18 17:15
neighborleesticking up for....:)Nov 18 17:16
anivarneighborlee: :-)Nov 18 17:18
trmancoschestowitz, HiNov 18 17:18
trmancodid I stay online all day?Nov 18 17:18
schestowitzHey, anivar.Nov 18 17:19
schestowitzIt was funny to see RMS' reaction to the 'Barf' thing.Nov 18 17:20
schestowitzIt was put in a context where the "Silver Light" phrase was associated with revolution.Nov 18 17:20
schestowitzAnd yes... there's a real product called BarfNov 18 17:21
schestowitzI got it royalty-free from my usual source of images.Nov 18 17:21
schestowitztrmanco: yes, but I left for a while and I need to go to the gym by the end of the dayNov 18 17:21
twitterGWB let's you know what he really thinks http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...Nov 18 17:22
trmancook thanks for confirming, look like my bnc is working :-)Nov 18 17:22
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 17:22
twitterhttp://www.rotten.com/library/...Nov 18 17:22
twitterhi, anivar!Nov 18 17:23
anivarschestowitz: heheNov 18 17:24
schestowitzanivar: I'll cite this later.Nov 18 17:24
schestowitz[your blog]Nov 18 17:24
schestowitzThere's something urgent now.Nov 18 17:24
anivartwitter:  hiNov 18 17:24
twitterYou say, " You all are aware of the 2 major campaigns in which Free Software community in India fought Last 1.5 Years. The Campaign for Document Freedom and Ongoing Campaign against software patents. Novell was always opposite to the Free Software Movement’s position"Nov 18 17:32
twitterthat's sad news.  Thanks for sharing it.Nov 18 17:32
schestowitzNovell doesn't care about FreedomNov 18 17:36
schestowitzSuSE does, but it's a minority in Novell.Nov 18 17:36
twitterI understand Novell is like that, but it's news to me they are doing M$'s bidding in other countries.Nov 18 17:37
schestowitzS.u.S.E. as it was at the time could be invited to sponsors and promote itself, but Novell with S.u.S.E. is like a python with Bambi in its belly and a Godzilla (Microsoft) holding it by the hand.Nov 18 17:37
twitterIt seems crazy that they would spend money opposing ODF and promoting software patents in India while they are closing offices around the world.Nov 18 17:38
schestowitztwitter: they dispute going the way of the dodoNov 18 17:41
schestowitzSee http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/1...Nov 18 17:41
schestowitzBasically, Novell spins it.Nov 18 17:42
schestowitzThey say Novell is paid by MS. That's spin.Nov 18 17:42
schestowitzMicrosoft gives coupons to encourage people to get a distribution that passes royalties to Microsoft.Nov 18 17:42
schestowitzMicrosoft actually calls these coupons "patent royalties" now.Nov 18 17:43
schestowitzNovell (Hauser FUDmesier... see BN for details) tries to spin this as Microsoft paying Novell for patents.Nov 18 17:43
schestowitzThey dress up a wolf as a sheepNov 18 17:43
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Nov 18 17:45
kentmait's so hard to get the ears into the costume :-)Nov 18 17:45
*kentma used to have a small flock of sheep...Nov 18 17:45
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 17:46
schestowitzHeh. Funny typo there. FUDmesier -> Fudmeister . http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/...Nov 18 17:55
*alan (n=chatzill@89.100.117.96) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 18:05
schestowitzHi, alan Nov 18 18:06
alanAlohaNov 18 18:06
alanI was just wondering if you knew that microvell is a registered companyNov 18 18:06
schestowitzLet me check.Nov 18 18:06
alanhttp://www.microvell.net/Nov 18 18:07
schestowitzOh my god! :-) I didn't know.Nov 18 18:07
alanThey may not appreciate being caught in any crossfire is allNov 18 18:07
schestowitzDo you know them?Nov 18 18:07
schestowitzIs there also a Novellsoft?Nov 18 18:08
alanWho knowsNov 18 18:08
schestowitzhttp://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_repo... "Date first seenAugust 2000"Nov 18 18:08
schestowitzDid you hear anything from them?Nov 18 18:08
*alan has quit (Client Quit)Nov 18 18:09
schestowitzEeek. http://toolbar.netcraft.com/...Nov 18 18:09
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?source...Nov 18 18:09
schestowitzSince he left, he might be associated with the company.Nov 18 18:10
schestowitzThere is another one: http://www.microvellnetworks.co.uk/Nov 18 18:18
schestowitzalan is from Ireland on the face of it.Nov 18 18:18
twitterI doubt anyone will confuse your fictional company with a real one.  The first page has no real links.  You might email them to see if they still exist.Nov 18 18:29
twitterThe second page first shows up in the internet archive on January 2008.  http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://w...Nov 18 18:31
twitterYou may have created your MicroVell logo before they did.  In fact, they may be a troll page that copies you intentionally.Nov 18 18:33
MinceRFudweiser?Nov 18 18:33
twitterIt's strange that a company working with Novell network stuff would only have a page starting in 2008.  Here's some of their supposed work, http://www.microvellnetworks....Nov 18 18:34
twitterMicrovell.net has been around for a while, http://web.archive.org/web/*/htt...Nov 18 18:35
twitternope, first page is spam site http://web.archive.org/web/20010...Nov 18 18:36
twitterThey had the same sucky image based site by 2004 http://web.archive.org/web/200406032...Nov 18 18:37
twitterLogo is obviously different in 2003 http://web.archive.org/web/20030...Nov 18 18:38
schestowitzMinceR: typosNov 18 18:38
twitterthey are from Miami according to the 2003 page.Nov 18 18:39
schestowitztwitter: does Microvell Networks vend Novell stuff?!?!Nov 18 18:39
twitternot in 2003Nov 18 18:39
schestowitzMiami, eh? That's goodNov 18 18:39
schestowitzI thought alan might be related to the company/iesNov 18 18:39
twitterThe UK site says it's in the UK, but it is from 2008 and violates the Miami company unless they are the same person and moved and picked up Novell skills after year 2000.  UNLIKELY.Nov 18 18:41
twitterHere's another older page http://web.archive.org/web/2003092...Nov 18 18:41
twitterClearly a different group from the UK organization.Nov 18 18:41
twitterThe UK company only has an email contact but claims, "                                                 Microvell                                                 Networks Ltd                                                   is located in the                                                  heart of the North West.  Situateq"Nov 18 18:42
schestowitzSeems like consulting.Nov 18 18:45
schestowitzIs there a Novell connection anywhere?Nov 18 18:45
schestowitzLike GWAVA?Nov 18 18:45
twitterJust the clients.Nov 18 18:46
twitterHere's where they say they are http://www.freeindex.co.uk/profile(Microvel...Nov 18 18:48
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/mi...Nov 18 18:50
twittermore info is there too, they claim to have been around since 2002Nov 18 18:50
twitterhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&a... turns up nothing.Nov 18 18:50
schestowitzyour stalker in on your tail in BN again (new comment)Nov 18 18:51
twittergoing to look at trademark article you might check out http://en-gb.facebook.com/people...Nov 18 18:51
twitterdon't know if that person is related.  There's a phone number for microvell networks if you want to find out how they feel about using the name of a Miami company.Nov 18 18:54
twitterIn any case, people doing business with Novell have much bigger problems than their name now.Nov 18 18:56
schestowitzYes, I agree.Nov 18 18:57
trmancohttp://failblog.files.wordpress.com/...Nov 18 19:02
schestowitzThis one has real-world impact: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/1...Nov 18 19:10
schestowitzanivar: can you mail me a photo of yours? I'm doing a post.Nov 18 19:12
schestowitzNever mind, I post now.Nov 18 19:18
*shyam_k has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 18 19:22
*anivar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Nov 18 19:31
*schestowitz gotta run (literally)Nov 18 19:36
twitterenjoy it.Nov 18 19:37
twitterHere's a M$ quote that should be used more frequently.   "Mind Control: To control mental output you to have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!"Nov 18 19:58
twitterfrom the SLOG.DOC http://docs.google.com/Present?docid=d...Nov 18 19:59
*mib_abdy06 (i=89419005@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52a9051fd0180a39) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 20:15
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twitterHere are a few names to replace MicrovellNov 18 20:30
twitterMicroval, http://www.patientsville.com/m...Nov 18 20:30
twitterno confusing that, eh?  Who would mistake the fake Linux company for a contraceptive with side effects that include pregnancy and retarded babies?Nov 18 20:32
twitterMicroveil nothing shows up here http://www.google.com/search?q=microveil&...Nov 18 20:33
twitterof course, you could always use MicroNovellNov 18 20:35
neighborleehttp://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/inde... < you might aalready know..but if not its a huge laughter point ;)Nov 18 20:51
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 21:15
_doug.................. ................ .......................................... ....................................Nov 18 21:19
trmanco:|Nov 18 21:35
trmancolooks like MSN IM servers are downNov 18 21:35
trmancoThe MSN servers are temporarily unavailable. Please wait and try againNov 18 21:35
trmancocrappy serviceNov 18 21:35
_dougIt's obviously a fault in UNIX ..Nov 18 21:39
*GoblinRFD (i=4e564b68@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4ba401247f73c52a) has joined #boycottnovellNov 18 21:39
GoblinRFDhello all.Nov 18 21:40
_dougI thought portals were going out of fashion ..Nov 18 21:40
_dougas in AOL never seemed to make a buck ?Nov 18 21:40
_doug'walled garden' etc ..Nov 18 21:40
trmanco_doug, obviously :-PNov 18 21:41
_dougOf course if I got the BBC iPlayer + Google Apps + Youtube + FaceBook .. I mightened want to leave the garden .. :)Nov 18 21:41
_dougMAybe Web 2.01 is a place where people will finally make real money out of the InternetNov 18 21:42
_dougI can see all the innovators drooling over IPTV + adverising to a closed audience ..Nov 18 21:43
_dougI already notice Gmail spooling targeted adverts to me, depending on what searches I did previously ..Nov 18 21:44
_dougSo in the future, as I'm driving along, all the billbaords will be focused on me .. yea ?Nov 18 21:44
_dougwait .. leme see what pops up ..Nov 18 21:44
_doug'ESPN.com - Red Sox second baseman Pedroia wins AL MVP - 1 hour ago'Nov 18 21:45
*GoblinRFD has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Nov 18 21:46
_doug'John Cleese Clips - www.comedydemon.com - Enjoy all the best John Cleese clips at Comedy Demon.'Nov 18 21:46
_doug"Official site of Nightingale-Conant personal development audio programs"Nov 18 21:47
_dougHaaaaaa ....Nov 18 21:47
_dougDoes the selection depend on the contents of my inbox ?Nov 18 21:48
trmanco_doug, "I already notice Gmail spooling targeted adverts to me, depending on what searches I did previously .." this is trueNov 18 21:48
_doug"Katie Price Swimwear"Nov 18 21:49
_dougOoops .. naughty .. :]Nov 18 21:49
_dougI don't think I'd look good in it ... HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANov 18 21:49
_dougThere is a mention of Katie in the email .. so it does read your emails to target the emails ..Nov 18 21:50
_doug"Quote of the Day - P. J. O'Rourke"Nov 18 21:51
_dougSee, it's not all filth .. :oNov 18 21:51
_dougHey, if I mention nasal sexs, I get an advert for .. 'Hydrangea Flower From M&S -' ...Nov 18 21:52
_doug"Classroom Discipline 101", I wonder what keywords triggered that ? :))))Nov 18 21:53
_dougMention 'Blind Faith' a novel .. and I get an advert for ..Nov 18 21:54
_doug"Want to Self Publish? -"Nov 18 21:54
_dougThis is a little disconcerting .. to say the least ...Nov 18 21:54
_dougSomeone sent me: "Sex Without Love by Sharon Olds" .. I get an advert from GoogleKeywords .. wait for it ...Nov 18 21:56
_doug"Want fantastic Chinese trip with pretty Chinese lady? Find her now!"Nov 18 21:57
_dougImagine when they have robot waiters, and you're chatting up your girlfriend over a romantic dinner, and the robot picls up the words 'sex without love' and it triggers an advert, so it pipes up with .. 'you want to meet fantastic Chinese lady for lotta good sex .. she sooo horney' .. kind of a damper on the moment ..Nov 18 21:59
_douginbox: "Diddy halts private jet flights over fuel prices - Yahoo! News"Nov 18 22:01
_dougGmail: "Charter a Private Jet - "Nov 18 22:02
_dougThis is fun .. haven't taken a good look before ...Nov 18 22:02
_dougGvert: "Healthy and asthmatic volunteers wanted for clinical trials"Nov 18 22:03
_dougI'll let you guess what was in the email :)Nov 18 22:03
_dougGvert: "Dr Who Box Set -"Nov 18 22:04
_doug:]Nov 18 22:04
_dougYou know, this could be real funny .. I might just compile a collection of quotes from my email .. and what adverts Google thinks is appropriate ..Nov 18 22:05
_dougquote: "I tried to discuss the topic of feminism"Nov 18 22:07
_dougGoogle keyword advert: "End KFC's Animal Cruelty -"Nov 18 22:07
_dougI'm not making this up ...Nov 18 22:07
_doughello ?Nov 18 22:15
schestowitzHey, _doug Nov 18 22:15
_dougdid you see my previous sphieel ?Nov 18 22:15
schestowitzYou've G-Rated(R) this channel.Nov 18 22:15
_dougG ?Nov 18 22:15
schestowitzR?Nov 18 22:15
_dougHey, I left out the worst .. :)Nov 18 22:16
schestowitzI know.Nov 18 22:16
_dougI'm off momenterally ..Nov 18 22:17
MinceRgyrated!Nov 18 22:17
_dougHey, guess what .. earlier on I got a support call from India :)Nov 18 22:18
_dougFrom someone who works in a call center ..Nov 18 22:18
_dougThese two obviously take the online thing far too seriously ..Nov 18 22:20
_doughttp://blog.wired.com/games/2008/11...Nov 18 22:20
_dougclippy: it looks like you're having an affair, it looks like you're having an affair, it looks like you're having an affair ....Nov 18 22:21
_douggtg ..Nov 18 22:22
*_doug has quit ()Nov 18 22:22
twitterM$FT under $20 all the do da day.Nov 18 22:23
schestowitzMicrosoft is a teen asset.Nov 18 22:23
twitterYouth should be protected from that kind of moral corruption.Nov 18 22:24
twitterThanks to Vista, the disease seems to be self limiting.Nov 18 22:25
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/05...Nov 18 22:29
twitterconfromity http://bayimg.com/EAGcLAabLNov 18 22:33
schestowitzThe wedding ring company called "Novell" has just spammed YouTube.Nov 18 22:37
schestowitzThey typically throw in promotional stuff there, but they uploaded at least 40 pieces of junk this morning.Nov 18 22:38
schestowitzMicrosoft does such things too... Novell doesn't do it at quite the same capacity.Nov 18 22:38
twitterSpam.  From M$, by M$, for M$.Nov 18 22:39
schestowitzI have examples, FWIW. Hold on..Nov 18 22:39
schestowitzIf you want to see the Novell spam, go to Google, search for Novell, sort by dateNov 18 22:39
schestowitzThis afternoon they swamped the thing.Nov 18 22:40
schestowitzI see it in my RSS feeds/Nov 18 22:40
twitterFrom botnets that infest Windows and you know they aim that shit.Nov 18 22:40
schestowitzNovell: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/03/mi...Nov 18 22:40
twitterbusy making fun of Windows 7.Nov 18 22:40
schestowitzThe /computer/ Novell: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/...Nov 18 22:40
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_... "I think it's more likely that Gartner's biggest concern is that open-source software firms (and communities) pay it little money for its research. The biggest danger from open source may actually be to Gartner's P&L statement, not to the enterprises that adopt open-source software."Nov 18 22:42
schestowitzBlankenhorn still provoking, I think: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3096Nov 18 22:47
twitterSoon to be tagged "inappropriate" http://bayimg.com/kaLnpAabPNov 18 22:51
twitterdinner timeNov 18 22:53
twitterbblNov 18 22:53
schestowitzMPC buh-bye: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Nov 18 23:01
schestowitzzoobab writes: "I am afraid that many people thinks the opposite nowadays after the OOXML experience. ISO is dead for software standards. Do you need an official funeral?" < http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/... > +1Nov 18 23:04
schestowitzWrist Computer Dumps Windows for GNU/Linux Only: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/N...Nov 18 23:06
schestowitzhttp://computerworld.com/action/ar... ( McColo takedown: Internet vigilantism or online Neighborhood Watch? )Nov 18 23:44
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Nov 18 23:57

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