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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 2nd, 2009 - Part 2


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*Omar87 (n=omar@ has left #boycottnovellJan 02 15:23
schestowitzCNET BSing to MSJan 02 15:28
schestowitz"Oh, and we almost forgot Microsoft. Not initially enthusiastic about the Netbook market because of its XP-centric nature, Microsoft seems to have also gotten the Netbook religion with Windows 7 which will be ready for Netbooks from day one. " 02 15:28
schestowitzNo, they will have a special crippled and poor variant some time maybe in 2010Jan 02 15:28
schestowitzMore vapourware, and peddling of this vapourware from Microsoft's 'pet' publicationJan 02 15:29
schestowitz'Microsoft may cut 15,000 jobs this month' < >Jan 02 15:30
schestowitzThe Times wrote about this alsoJan 02 15:30
MinceRXP-centric? is CNet living under a rock or something?Jan 02 15:48
schestowitzOf course.Jan 02 15:50
schestowitzSweatyB is quite a rock.Jan 02 15:50
MinceRmoar liek a bag of lard and sweat, amirite?Jan 02 15:51
*twitter ( has left #boycottnovellJan 02 16:07
Axzschestowitz, 02 16:12
schestowitzIs this blog not plagiarism?Jan 02 16:16
schestowitzSomeone warned me yesterday. Jan 02 16:16
schestowitzLet me checkJan 02 16:16
Axzsorry plagiarism?Jan 02 16:18
AxzohJan 02 16:18
Axzwell i'm very interested in source you got that from :DJan 02 16:19
AxzAnyhow its own written contentJan 02 16:21
schestowitzYeah, did you see the person who came to IRC yesterday?Jan 02 16:23
schestowitzSomeone was not happy about that Web siteJan 02 16:23
AxzIts one of my authorsJan 02 16:24
Axzhe was confused about 2th comment on the blogJan 02 16:24
schestowitz*LOL* 02 16:27
schestowitzOh, I see...Jan 02 16:27
Axzlol indeedJan 02 16:28
Axzthat dog is gonna pwn tony hawkJan 02 16:29
schestowitzTony DogJan 02 16:35
schestowitzVice-President of  ANSOL just sent me this: 02 16:36
schestowitzAnalyst Says Microsoft Should Lay Off 10 Percent < >Jan 02 16:47
schestowitzI'm accumulating evidence, that's all.Jan 02 16:48
schestowitz I ask:: According to and , you may have committed inside-trading. Is this true?Jan 02 16:51
schestowitz"I know what you did last summer' :-)Jan 02 16:52
schestowitzELEKS Software becomes an MS lackey: 02 16:56
schestowitzHehe. Mitchell Ashley does not quite tell in this article that he's one of the boosters of Microsoft and he's trying to deny layoffs. 02 17:02
schestowitzIs Going Private the Best Option for a Post-Yang Yahoo? < >Jan 02 17:02
schestowitzThe Gralla shill is of course at it as well: 02 17:05
schestowitz"However, the donation of software should be removed from this list entirely, or at least replaced with the cost value. The marginal cost of the additional copies of each piece of donated software is mere pennies, but they claim hundreds of dollars. This is akin to stealing from taxpayers, as these are deductible as charitable donations and decrease their tax liability."Jan 02 17:10
schestowitz"Assuming Microsoft uses the retail value of the donated software in tallying up its donations, I totally agree with Bellingman. Joseph, do you know which value Microsoft used (retail or cost-of-goods)? I assume the IRS tells them which value to use, but using the retail value seems pretty lame."Jan 02 17:11
schestowitz 02 17:12
schestowitzThat's the best ref so far: 02 17:20
schestowitzI found 8 more to append for compelling evidence laterJan 02 17:20
*neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellJan 02 17:20
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 02 17:31
schestowitzSOS -- 'Save Our Stocks' < > Signs of what's  called "failed state (or market"Jan 02 17:36
schestowitzFor the third day in a row today, BN gets almost 10,000 visits/day. Crazy.Jan 02 17:39
twitterYou've got news worth reading.Jan 02 17:40
schestowitzI hope.Jan 02 17:40
schestowitzI've seen 3 articles so far that show Microsoft ridiculing UK broadband. Here is one: 02 17:41
schestowitzWow. Read the comment here! 02 17:44
schestowitzOne person (at least) makes the mistakes of assuming FOSS didn't hurt Microsoft. No... Windows XP sold for $5 was just something they decided was the right cost... 'NOTHING' to do with GNUi/Linux.... yeah, sure..Jan 02 17:45
MinceRi don't see any commentsJan 02 17:45
schestowitzJS enabledJan 02 17:45
MinceRindeedJan 02 17:45
schestowitzI missed it as well, for many monthsJan 02 17:45
twitterThat's funny, M$ themselves admitted to pricing pressure on Netbooks as a reason for lower profits.Jan 02 17:45
schestowitzI never saw any comments for months and I thought the site was abandonedJan 02 17:46
MinceRwell, i guess it's trying to do something nasty that i've disabledJan 02 17:46
twitterTheir PR bunnies lie for them.Jan 02 17:46
schestowitzThen I enabled JS and voila!Jan 02 17:46
MinceRor it just doesn't like operaJan 02 17:46
schestowitztwitter: they must. SEC filings.Jan 02 17:46
schestowitzIf they hadn't explained a decline in revenue, they could be sued.Jan 02 17:46
MinceRworks in ffJan 02 17:46
MinceRso this isn't a webpage actuallyJan 02 17:46
schestowitzThey usually love accusing the "pirates" (those who fight Linux with $0 Windows)Jan 02 17:46
MinceRjust like google fail and google maps aren't webappsJan 02 17:46
schestowitzRead the comment at the topJan 02 17:47
schestowitzFew people dare to say this in a big site, but I wholeheartedly agree.Jan 02 17:47
schestowitzSome professors do too.Jan 02 17:47
schestowitzIn fact, to many execs, crimes have become a way of life, a 'norm'. They see nothing wrong with running a business on a bubble.Jan 02 17:48
twitterYeah, but the bubble is popped and M$ does not have another 5 years, let alone decades to decline.Jan 02 17:50
twitter10 to 15% job cuts will seal the deal.  There's no way they will be able to get out of the Vista hole.Jan 02 17:50
schestowitzNew slogan:Jan 02 17:51
schestowitz"Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP): even a KIDDO can do it" 02 17:51
twitterThat cert and a buck might buy you a soda pop.Jan 02 17:52
schestowitztwitter: not true. They'll kill the losing products firstJan 02 17:52
schestowitzThis means that core products like Office and Windows will stay; stuff like Zune might have to get the axes after this generationJan 02 17:52
twitterYeah, but their chief asset is gone.  None will see them as immortal.Jan 02 17:52
schestowitzMicrosoft Certified Professional... don't people move /AWAY/ from Microsoft? Who would need people who /memorised/ menu items?Jan 02 17:53
twitterWithout long term credibility, people will look to alternatives like GNU/Linux that are not going anywere.Jan 02 17:53
schestowitz9 year old kids whose solution is to reboot the PC by press the power button or following some friendly balloons as they reinstall the OS.Jan 02 17:54
schestowitz*pressingJan 02 17:54
twitterMost of M$'s customers grudgingly accept what vendors push because they think corruption works and that M$ will be around forever.  They think they will never really have a choice.Jan 02 17:56
twitterA sick M$ will convince them to look elsewhere before M$ tanks.Jan 02 17:56
Axzyeps ^Jan 02 17:57
MinceRwho would need people who memorise menu items anyway?Jan 02 17:57
twitterM$ says it's an important job skill.Jan 02 17:58
twitterThe less money M$ has, the faster their monopoly will fail.Jan 02 17:59
Axznaah its matter of time the monopoly will fail anyhowJan 02 18:00
Axzusage of Ubuntu is increased badly but in good sinJan 02 18:00
twitterSure, but the death spiral goes faster, it's positive feedback.Jan 02 18:00
twitterWithout money, M$ can't bribe the press, FUD, advertise or even pretend to have new things.Jan 02 18:01
schestowitzMinceR: teachersJan 02 18:02
schestowitzTeach the kids how to find menu items. Call it "computer classes"Jan 02 18:03
schestowitzI'm updating a post about the layoffs. Few minutes...Jan 02 18:03
twitterhere's a funny.  Real users, real reviews 02 18:06
twitterAt this point, I take any positive reviews as astroturf.Jan 02 18:07
twitterKennedy spilled the beans on Vista 7 long ago.Jan 02 18:07
twitterNet Applications has another bogus stat, but the direction is right. 02 18:10
twitterIt is not uncommon for US Universities have Winblows use at less than 75%.Jan 02 18:11
twittera 21% Vista use is laughable.Jan 02 18:12
schestowitzI've just updated . See if you spot typos in the updateJan 02 18:12
*schestowitz on phoneJan 02 18:12
twitterWhy do people quote Net Applications?Jan 02 18:12
twitterpumping up the invincibility myth 02 18:18
twitterDave Methvin, totally clueless.Jan 02 18:20
*schestowitz backJan 02 18:39
tessier_So has anyone actually been laid off from MS yet?Jan 02 18:39
schestowitztwitter: yes, I saw that too. Net Applications... I try to avoid these articles or omit the part that mentions it. They give credibility to it by citing it withoit looking at /methods/Jan 02 18:39
schestowitztessier: yesJan 02 18:39
schestowitzWait..Jan 02 18:39
schestowitzSee links at the bottom of: 02 18:40
schestowitzRazorfish and FAST sacked some. They are MS subsidiaries (acquired by MS)Jan 02 18:40
schestowitzThere are also contractors of MS that got sacked or whose contract was not renewed. No official word on that yet, but former employees seem to be talking about it.Jan 02 18:41
schestowitztwitter: foresaw this issue: "The president of Guyana has asked police to investigate who is impersonating him on Facebook, the social networking website." < >Jan 02 18:50
schestowitzLinpus OOo version criticism @ 02 19:00
schestowitzSemiconductor Sales Dropped More Sharply in November < >Jan 02 19:09
schestowitzThis is bad news to any software that's resource greedy. The purchases of new hardware has taken a very sharp decline.Jan 02 19:10
schestowitzAnother one; Rumor: Microsoft to Cut 15,000 Employees this Month < >Jan 02 19:13
twitterUS manufacturing, lowest since 1948. 02 19:15
schestowitz"The figures “confirm a sharp contraction in global investment, output and trade activity, consistent with the deepest global recession since at least the early 1980s,” said Lena Komileva, head of market economics in London at Tullet Prebon Plc."Jan 02 19:16
schestowitzI see the latest Net Applications BSJan 02 19:16
schestowitz 02 19:17
twitterIt can get worse.  In some places it's raining rockets and unemployment hits 80% in concentration camp. 02 19:20
schestowitzYes, it's atrocious. Why can't they just live in peace?Jan 02 19:24
MinceR"Can't we all just get along?"Jan 02 19:25
schestowitzRMS writes a lot about it.. not as much about the deaths in Africa though, but he does occasionally mention it.Jan 02 19:25
schestowitzMinceR: more market share, territories, etc.Jan 02 19:25
twitterRMS blames Israeli extremists because they have all the power and intentionally provoke.  Real peace happened nearly ten years ago, but was destroyed by assassination and intentional provocation that's been repeated since.Jan 02 19:26
schestowitzYes.Jan 02 19:27
schestowitztessier would bed to differJan 02 19:28
tessier_RMS, being Jewish by birth but atheist by choice, is an interesting take.Jan 02 19:28
twitterPolice stations are targeted, but it's not the first time. They have nothing and zero ability to keep public order, much less hunt down rocket makers.Jan 02 19:28
tessier_schestowitz: I'm not sure I would beg to differ or not. Although I do think Omar is quite far off in left field on this issue. :)Jan 02 19:29
schestowitzYesJan 02 19:29
schestowitzHe blogged about it last nightJan 02 19:29
schestowitzI read his blog, so I saw it.Jan 02 19:29
schestowitzThe UN needs to intervene properlyJan 02 19:29
tessier_He seemed to want to play up the number of Israeli's killed by Hamas missiles for some reason. But then he wanted to say that these unguided missiles somehow were hitting only military people and not civilians like he accuses Israel of doing.Jan 02 19:30
schestowitzThey should have done this also before the 'war' -in- ON IraqJan 02 19:30
twitterPeople who try to help have been beaten and assassinated.Jan 02 19:30
tessier_But if the experience of the US is any example it is much more likely that Hamas is indiscriminantly targeting civilians simply due to the technology they have: unguided missiles. Whereas Israel has laser guided bombs to drop exactly where they want them.Jan 02 19:30
schestowitzWhat about bystanders?Jan 02 19:31
tessier_The experience of the US also suggests that this stuff is freakin' expensive and in limited supply. We only have so many laser guided bombs and Israel has even fewer.Jan 02 19:31
twitterIsrael refuses to make peace.Jan 02 19:31
schestowitzIf you can kill 10 criminals and one kid, should you launch?Jan 02 19:31
tessier_Bystanders may easily be killed but they are not the target. And the killing of bystanders has been greatly diminished by the use of laser guided bombs.Jan 02 19:31
tessier_schestowitz: If you have prior knowledge? Then no.Jan 02 19:31
tessier_schestowitz: But in many cases they don't.Jan 02 19:31
schestowitztwitter: probably more to do with methodsJan 02 19:31
schestowitzTruce would work betterJan 02 19:32
schestowitzNot targeted assassinationsJan 02 19:32
twitterIt is impossible to drop a bomb on Gaza without killing innocents.  It's a concentration camp.Jan 02 19:32
schestowitzIn Iraq, they only invite more insurgents this wayJan 02 19:32
schestowitzSo what are they achieving anyway? Just more resentment.Jan 02 19:32
tessier_schestowitz: The number of insurgents in Iraq seems to be decreasing.Jan 02 19:32
twitterPeople want justice.  Assassinations are the way people treat wolves and other pests.Jan 02 19:32
schestowitztessier: I didn't know that.Jan 02 19:33
tessier_Not that I'm in any way in favor of how the US has been dealing with Iraq.Jan 02 19:33
schestowitzThey need to find the source of the issues and listenJan 02 19:33
neighborleeI think people tend to fear thus not believe what they dont yet understand ;)..I fear god ( cause I dont want to be dupped into believing in tooth fairy) thus I dont believe..its easier than having to have faith in that which our senses yet are able to percieve or for which our intellect is yet albe to comprhend,,we have come a long ways as a species, but have  god knows how far to go, so we sell ourselves very short having such shJan 02 19:33
neighborleeort sided views ;)Jan 02 19:33
schestowitzNot take down those who protest the issues.Jan 02 19:33
tessier_schestowitz: How do you deal with those who say their religion is the only one and they will kill you if you don't agree?Jan 02 19:33
twitterStraw man.Jan 02 19:34
schestowitzYeah.Jan 02 19:34
schestowitzThat's hardly the case here.Jan 02 19:34
tessier_I've never met a jew who didn't respect my choice in religion. Can't say the same for Muslims. Although I know they aren't all like that having dated a very nice Muslim. Of course her parents weren't happy that she was dating a heathen. :)Jan 02 19:34
neighborleeyou deal by agreeing to disagree if even if means 30/70 or 70/30..over time as peace and trust prevail 5050 , and eventually 100 will prevail ;)Jan 02 19:34
twitterRacism.Jan 02 19:35
tessier_schestowitz: Here being where? Hamas in Gaza or Al Qaeda in Iraq? Because Al Qaeda in Iraq has made their position very clear.Jan 02 19:35
schestowitzWhy?Jan 02 19:36
schestowitzWhat drives to this?Jan 02 19:36
schestowitzSometimes you need to explore what leads people to this.Jan 02 19:36
schestowitzAnd sometimes the reasons are legitimateJan 02 19:36
schestowitzFor exampe..Jan 02 19:36
twitterPeople in West Bank settlements have made themselves very clear too, but they don't represent any elected government.Jan 02 19:36
schestowitzPeople don't 'doubt' Microsoft because they have the 'unmicrosoft' religion.Jan 02 19:36
schestowitzThey witnessed things.Jan 02 19:37
schestowitzThey were injured, in the business sense.Jan 02 19:37
tessier_schestowitz: Have you seen "The Road to 9/11"? Very good history of how all of this extremism came about.Jan 02 19:37
tessier_schestowitz: The reasons are legitimate? Or it's a straw man? You can't have both.Jan 02 19:38
twitterYour straw man is not real.  There are plenty of real wrongs to worry about.  Theft, racism, ethnic cleansing and real terror.Jan 02 19:39
schestowitztessier: I haven't watched that, no.Jan 02 19:41
twitterI've read that Palestine and Lebanon were some of the most liberal societies in the middle east and that Hammas and Hezbolla were created to undermine Yasser Arrafat.Jan 02 19:41
tessier_schestowitz: Highly recommended. I think you would like it.Jan 02 19:41
tessier_Wish my DVD drive weren't acting up so I could rip it.Jan 02 19:42
schestowitzIs it on the Tube?Jan 02 19:42
tessier_Not afaikJan 02 19:42
twitterI have a memorex external DVD and highly recommend it.  400 Mbit Firewire and USB2.  If the drive dies, I can put another one in the case.Jan 02 19:43
schestowitzMy exposition of MS trolls gets some feedback: "Your exposure here will also help to expose this fraud and reduce his worth with his employer. Victory is assured when he receives his pink slip. "Jan 02 19:44
schestowitz"What gets me is how these Microsoft paid astroturfers are all such ugly people.  You'd think they could find someone who could be a polite troll, or at least not descend to the depths of flatfish or the ugliness of Hadron. "Jan 02 19:44
schestowitz"Their trolling would be more effective if they were well behaved, doesn't Microsoft know that?  But the ugliness that we see must be coming from above, just as Abu Ghraib followed directly from Rumsfeld. They're not only ugly, they're a bunch of cowards..."Jan 02 19:44
schestowitzSome other Web sites were equally concerned by the astroturfers and now they have material with which to make convictions.Jan 02 19:45
twitterLet's hope they are in the 15% to be fired.  I have my doubts, FUD is a core M$ function.Jan 02 19:45
tessier_Do we even know the real name of flatfish?Jan 02 19:46
schestowitzThe US govt. does that same :-)Jan 02 19:46
schestowitzBrainwash and mindshare games.Jan 02 19:46
schestowitzCoverage of the mildde east is probably biased too.Jan 02 19:46
schestowitzChina for sure.Jan 02 19:46
schestowitztessier: yes, it's Gary Stewart. Did you not see my post this morning?Jan 02 19:47
tessier_no, I haven't looked todayJan 02 19:47
schestowitz 02 19:47
twitterThe details of tyranny are always worse than honest people can imagine.Jan 02 19:47
schestowitzI posted it there too... and he does not even deny. 02 19:47
twitter 02 19:48
schestowitzIf he attacked you, then  keep this in mind... maybe there will be a class action against Microsoft one day.Jan 02 19:48
twitter 02 19:49
twitterSaw the picture last night.  Read the flatfish story this morning.Jan 02 19:51
twitter:)Jan 02 19:51
schestowitzThere's more on the way.Jan 02 19:52
schestowitzPedants' point:Jan 02 19:52
schestowitz"I notice how you write about "Linux" and the "Linux kernel" interchangeably as if they're the same thing.  I know that it's never your intent to spread confusion, but literally "Linux kernel" can either mean: - "Linux, the kernel" or - "the kernel of Linux" - which is a confusion often exploited by those who want to avoid giving credit to GNU as in "GNU/Linux".  Please think about it."Jan 02 19:52
schestowitzBlech. Moderation @ 02 19:58
schestowitz"Be aware that you feed a friend of Ballmer whose opinions are up for sale. Also see: "Rob Enderle: Putting the ‘Anal’ in ‘Analyst'"Jan 02 19:58
schestowitzhttp://daringfireba...Jan 02 19:58
schestowitzThese are not the people you want to reference. They are what Microsoft has particular names for, and none of that is "analyst"."Jan 02 19:58
schestowitzIt's amazing that some people still don't know who he is or what he is.Jan 02 19:59
schestowitzAMD Shanghai Opteron CPUs On Linux < >Jan 02 20:09
MinceR 02 20:10
schestowitzBruce forged: 02 20:13
schestowitzMinceR: who's that character supposed to be? The patents-obsessed goon is Gates, not SweatyJan 02 20:14
MinceRsome guy from NCSoft, perhapsJan 02 20:15
MinceRuh, some guy who _sued_ NCSoftJan 02 20:15
MinceRprobably a patent trollJan 02 20:15
MinceRthe strip isn't about m$, but it's about sw patentsJan 02 20:16
schestowitzI read that too quickly.Jan 02 20:16
MinceR(the creators are pretty stupid btw, but they make a nice comic)Jan 02 20:16
schestowitzCould be Raymond NiroJan 02 20:16
schestowitzBut the real Ray Niro is very ugly, worse than the cartoon.Jan 02 20:16
MinceR(they're otherwise all to quick to drool over shoddy m$ and crApple products and berate people for actually wanting to keep some civil rights when the big companies want to take them away)Jan 02 20:17
schestowitzHe compensated for his appearance by being an ass. 02 20:17
MinceRthe strip is about 02 20:18
schestowitz 02 20:19
schestowitz"When the letters didn't get an immediate response, Niro sued 50 companies for patent infringement. Most of the defendants, major companies like Boeing, Clorox and BMW, settled immediately."Jan 02 20:20
schestowitzCan people be jailed for being useless to humanity?Jan 02 20:20
schestowitzWhy You Should Delete Your MySpace Account < Why You Should Delete Your MySpace Account > "I realize that a free/libre/open source internet is still possible, but it will require us to stop supporting corporate websites such as myspace."Jan 02 20:21
MinceRif they could, we'd have turned most of the planet into a jail alreadyJan 02 20:25
schestowitzCommunity service can helpJan 02 20:28
schestowitzGive the broom to Nathan Myhrvold and the dustbin to Carl Icahn :-)Jan 02 20:29
MinceRif we could force SweatyBeast into work that serves the community, that would be niceJan 02 20:29
schestowitzSubjugation is very commonJan 02 20:29
schestowitzOver 90% of the population seems to be in wave slaveryJan 02 20:29
MinceRthough i'm not sure if he could ever produce the value consumed by keeping him in work and under controlJan 02 20:30
schestowitzMerely hired to serves someone else, making hi//her rich. We are taught at school that this is normal and acceptable.Jan 02 20:30
schestowitzMinceR: there are jobs where there are no throwable objects within reach.Jan 02 20:31
MinceRhe still needs to be kept from escapingJan 02 20:31
schestowitzNot really.Jan 02 20:31
schestowitzit's no Hannibal Jan 02 20:31
schestowitzIt can still be educated or tamed. Just watch the deposition videosJan 02 20:32
MinceRhe'd probably hop away if noone were to watchJan 02 20:32
schestowitzBallmer must have gone through one some days/weeks agoJan 02 20:32
schestowitzAnd then there's the scared Gates bobbing back and forth because he's busted doing the crime and he knows it.Jan 02 20:32
schestowitzSo he no longer raised his voice like he did in other tapesJan 02 20:32
MinceRwas he busted already?Jan 02 20:33
schestowitzYesJan 02 20:33
schestowitzBut he's rich in in the US of A if you are rich, then you are abive the lawJan 02 20:33
MinceRoh.Jan 02 20:33
schestowitzYou can buy your freedom.. out of prisonJan 02 20:33
schestowitzEven as a teenager arrested for speeding.Jan 02 20:33
schestowitz 02 20:34
schestowitzIn BN, 82.3 % of the reader so far this month use FirefoxJan 02 20:52
schestowitzMSIE @ 7.6 %Jan 02 20:52
schestowitz*readersJan 02 20:52
schestowitzLenovo 'planning' to slash 200 jobs <>Jan 02 20:53
schestowitz "The mag said that Lenovo, which acquired IBM’s struggling PC unit for $1.25bn – as well as an assumption of debt – in 2005, plans to announce a major restructuring plan on 8 January that will include a management reshuffle." The BBC has an article about unemployment in Chian.Jan 02 20:53
schestowitzThey are doing something wrong...  how can you spend about $1500 per laptop for kids??? "The Department for Children, Schools and Families has given Norfolk County Council €£310,000 to purchase laptops for more than 400 children." 02 20:55
schestowitzBono knifes Steve Jobs < >Jan 02 20:56
MinceRrich people can spend any amount of money on anything :>Jan 02 20:56
MinceRdid jobs survive?Jan 02 20:57
schestowitzNick Farrell provokes Apple fans, as he does on an almost daily basis: "IN WHAT will be a battle between the world's smuggest giants, popular beat combo artist Bono is funding an outfit that will knife his old chum and Apple messiah Steve Jobs in the back."Jan 02 20:57
MinceR...Jan 02 20:58
schestowitzJobs, like Arnold Steroidsnegger can afford to buy new bodyparts to serve his people in California (where Apple is)Jan 02 20:58
MinceRlolJan 02 20:58
MinceRi mind the republicanism more than the steroidsJan 02 20:58
schestowitzYes, that tooJan 02 20:59
schestowitzHe has a new advert here.Jan 02 20:59
schestowitzThey promote California.Jan 02 20:59
MinceRanyway, i hope that after this, Palm will finally release ALP devices.Jan 02 20:59
schestowitz"Board meeting" is among the slogans (surfboarding, skateboards, etc.)Jan 02 20:59
MinceRGarnet can hardly compete with windows mobile...Jan 02 20:59
schestowitzNova?Jan 02 20:59
schestowitzWindows Mobile is not the one to compete withJan 02 21:00
schestowitzIt's a dud, maybe dead-to-beJan 02 21:00
MinceRit's one of the things to compete withJan 02 21:00
MinceRwhat's nova?Jan 02 21:00
schestowitzAndrod, Crackberry and Jesusphone are the ones to beat.Jan 02 21:00
schestowitzNova = Palm's Linux-based O/S (to be released in 2009H1)Jan 02 21:00
MinceRi thought that was ALPJan 02 21:00
schestowitzACCESS?Jan 02 21:01
schestowitzNo.Jan 02 21:01
MinceRjesusphone doesn't even compete in the same categoryJan 02 21:01
MinceRyes, Access Linux PlatformJan 02 21:01
schestowitzNo.Jan 02 21:01
schestowitzSeparate, AFAIK.Jan 02 21:01
MinceRand android and crackberry just aren't open enoughJan 02 21:01
schestowitzThey compete as they they are stuck in 2005Jan 02 21:01
MinceRwell, Nova is probably good enough thenJan 02 21:01
schestowitzEveryone moves on, Palm still competes with the world in 2005... but in 2009Jan 02 21:01
MinceRwho moves on?Jan 02 21:01
schestowitzI just need it to read my data, that's all. And run my appsJan 02 21:02
MinceRwe're still stuck with wm, symbian, iphone and palm os 5Jan 02 21:02
schestowitzTechnology moves onJan 02 21:02
MinceRthey all suckJan 02 21:02
schestowitzLiMo, OHA.Jan 02 21:02
MinceRand there's android which could be something but turned out to suckJan 02 21:02
schestowitzIt's OKJan 02 21:02
MinceRand the other linux-based mobile os-es have mostly yet to arriveJan 02 21:02
schestowitzA friend of mine has one and he loves itJan 02 21:02
MinceRFreeRunner is still pretty much just a dev phoneJan 02 21:02
schestowitzHe wants to program for itJan 02 21:03
MinceRwell then he's locked into javaJan 02 21:03
schestowitzBut he can't tell the difference between an OS and P/L.Jan 02 21:03
MinceRbetter enjoy itJan 02 21:03
*tessier_ has a freerunnerJan 02 21:03
schestowitzHe's a rugby playerJan 02 21:03
tessier_I need to update to the latest OSJan 02 21:03
MinceR221020 <@schestowitz> But he can't tell the difference between an OS and P/L.Jan 02 21:03
MinceRneither could googleJan 02 21:03
tessier_I'm still not using mine on a daily basis. I need to switch over to it.Jan 02 21:03
schestowitzHeh.Jan 02 21:03
tessier_I got mine in July or so and it was pretty unusable for anything but dev.Jan 02 21:03
schestowitztessier: Freerunner has AndroidJan 02 21:04
MinceRbut why bother with it? freerunner also has OpenMoko :)Jan 02 21:04
tessier_MinceR: But OpenMoko isn't exactly usable.Jan 02 21:04
tessier_My phone is important. If work calls I gotta answer. I can't have a dead phone because the power management sucks or whatever.Jan 02 21:04
MinceRand android isn't exactly open.Jan 02 21:04
tessier_I currently carry a Motorola Z9. It's technically Linux but even more closed than Android.Jan 02 21:05
MinceRso i'll waitJan 02 21:05
tessier_Tons of Java etc.Jan 02 21:05
tessier_MinceR: I can't wait. I need a working phone.Jan 02 21:05
MinceRi have one alreadyJan 02 21:05
tessier_Although I have high hopes for openmoko.Jan 02 21:05
MinceRa qtek 9100Jan 02 21:05
tessier_MinceR: openmoko?Jan 02 21:05
tessier_ohJan 02 21:05
MinceRit isn't open but it mostly worksJan 02 21:05
schestowitzMostly..Jan 02 21:05
tessier_You would rather run a non-open but working phone than a mostly open but working android?Jan 02 21:05
MinceRwell, for a phone, it's good enoughJan 02 21:05
MinceRsorry, wm5 is more open than androidJan 02 21:06
MinceRi can run native appsJan 02 21:06
MinceRandroid can'tJan 02 21:06
schestowitzShopping for appsJan 02 21:06
MinceRi can program in several languages; for android, there's only javaJan 02 21:06
schestowitzPay per bitJan 02 21:06
schestowitzPay per callJan 02 21:06
MinceRi don't pay for apps :>Jan 02 21:06
tessier_I look forward to being able to program in python on openmokoJan 02 21:06
tessier_It needs some good games too.Jan 02 21:07
tessier_And I wish they didn't call it openmoko. Moko means booger in spanish so I feel really dumb saying "open booger" all the time.Jan 02 21:07
schestowitz*LOL*Jan 02 21:17
MinceRlolJan 02 21:21
schestowitzI think Linpus renamed to LinplusJan 02 21:23
MinceRthat's an improvementJan 02 21:28
twitterGoogle's phone is not free.  According to FSF, they Tivo'd it.  You can look at the source code and port it to another phone, but no substantive changes can be made to the Google phone.Jan 02 21:28
twitterBetter to use OpenMoko if your phone company allows, otherwise keep your data off the phone network.Jan 02 21:29
MinceRthe G1 dev phone is, thoughJan 02 21:29
schestowitz 02 21:30
twitter" how can you spend about $1500 per laptop for kids?" Administrative costs.  $1,100 to purchase and distribute and inventory each $400 laptop.Jan 02 21:31
twitterWith numbers like that, free software is compatible with graft.Jan 02 21:31
schestowitzRMS transcript (new): 02 21:31
schestowitzWay to say "happy new year": (Happy Birthday, Gregorian Calendar!)Jan 02 21:32
schestowitzSo the Earth completed another 365.something circles round itself and 'round the Sun. And meanwhile on Earth, homo sapients build hydrogen bombs that matter a lot more  :-oJan 02 21:36
MinceR365.2425Jan 02 21:42
MinceR(365.2425 rotations around its own axis, 1 trip around the Sun)Jan 02 21:43
schestowitzWhat happens with the leftover (leap years and all)?Jan 02 21:43
schestowitzI used to remember this, but there's an adjustment every now and then, no? We learned this at school.Jan 02 21:44
MinceRwe keep the length of years inaccuratelyJan 02 21:44
MinceRat 365 days for a whileJan 02 21:44
MinceRthen we fix it by a leap yearJan 02 21:44
schestowitzYes, what happens to the fragment though?Jan 02 21:44
schestowitzAnd after the leap year?Jan 02 21:44
MinceRthen we start overJan 02 21:44
schestowitzBut you have 'carry',Jan 02 21:45
schestowitzSo at some stage, winter can become summer and vice versaJan 02 21:45
MinceRthe length of the actual path travelled by the earth during our "year" is a bit shorter than a full ellipse during normal yearsJan 02 21:45
MinceRand a bit longer during a leap yearJan 02 21:45
MinceRso it balances outJan 02 21:45
schestowitzExactly to the dot?Jan 02 21:46
MinceRwell, probably notJan 02 21:46
MinceRwhen the error grows too big, we'll probably change the calendar againJan 02 21:46
schestowitzHeh.Jan 02 21:47
MinceR(look up Gregorian calendar about that)Jan 02 21:47
schestowitz"Magic" year?Jan 02 21:47
schestowitzWith February 20th?Jan 02 21:47
schestowitz30thJan 02 21:47
MinceRi think we'd change the rules of what's a leap yearJan 02 21:47
MinceRand that will fix it over timeJan 02 21:47
schestowitzI thin there's already a rule for this.Jan 02 21:47
schestowitzIIRCJan 02 21:47
MinceRthere are rules, yesJan 02 21:48
MinceRbut our measurement of how long a real year is might be inaccurateJan 02 21:48
schestowitzLike daylight savings time?Jan 02 21:48
MinceRalso, it's probably changingJan 02 21:48
schestowitzWhere Dubya can just declare changes?Jan 02 21:48
MinceRiirc there are rules like if the year is divisible by 4, it's a leap year but if it's also divisible by some other number, it isn'tJan 02 21:49
MinceRbut if it's also divisible by yet another number then it is a leap year anywayJan 02 21:49
MinceRi doubt Dubya could do it aloneJan 02 21:49
MinceRDST is a national thing, the calendar isn'tJan 02 21:49
schestowitzWell, cycles are universalJan 02 21:50
schestowitzThe decimal system is notJan 02 21:51
twitter"the G1 dev phone is, though"  If the phone people end up with is not free, you might as well code for Windows Mobile.  It's better not to help people who would enslave you.Jan 02 22:15
MinceRiirc anyone can buy the dev phone, tooJan 02 22:15
MinceRbut i agree on the mainstream version being closed being a bad thingJan 02 22:16
schestowitzLike RHEL?Jan 02 22:17
MinceRi mean tivoizedJan 02 22:18
MinceRi don't know how closed RHEL isJan 02 22:18
schestowitzDoesn't Google use some GPLv3ed stuff?Jan 02 22:19
schestowitzThey might be in violationJan 02 22:20
MinceRas long as they don't publish it in any form, only run it, they can't be in violationJan 02 22:26
MinceRoh, you mean on android?Jan 02 22:26
*plukazz (n=lucas@ has joined #boycottnovellJan 02 22:26
MinceRafaik they've kept GPL to the kernel and published all their kernel patches to upstreamJan 02 22:26
MinceRand the java stuff is their own messJan 02 22:27
*plukazz (n=lucas@ has left #boycottnovell ("Ex-Chat")Jan 02 22:29
twitterEvery US phone that's locked like a TIvo is a GPL3 violation.  Phone companies have an uncomfortable choice to make.  They can give their users freedom or restrict themselves to a small shrinking GPL2 codebase and community.Jan 02 22:29
MinceRoh, that issueJan 02 22:32
MinceRbut is there GPLv3 code in the kernel already?Jan 02 22:32
MinceRi mean, GPLv3-only codeJan 02 22:32
twitterI don't know and it does not matter.  They need userland stuff too, but what's important is that people don't want their work to be Tivoised.Jan 02 22:33
twitterSooner or later, even Torvalds will get that and move to GPL3Jan 02 22:34
MinceRthey have their own userland, don't they?Jan 02 22:34
twitterWell sure, but it's expensive for them and they want to use free software for the same reasons we all do.Jan 02 22:34
twitterAs more software goes GPL3, phone companies have to cooperate.Jan 02 22:35
MinceRas it stands, i don't know if they use GPLv3-only codeJan 02 22:35
tessier_twitter: I hope he can move to gplv3 but so many different people own code in the kernel that the case can be made that you must get permission from every single one of them (thousands) to gplv3 it.Jan 02 22:51
tessier_twitter: And there will be obstinate holdouts.Jan 02 22:52
MinceRmoving important parts could be enough to break tivoization by itselfJan 02 22:53
MinceRhm, i'm wrong about thatJan 02 22:53
MinceRv3 is incompatible with v2Jan 02 22:53
MinceRwell, anyway, the code of the holdouts could be rewrittenJan 02 22:53
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 02 22:54
twitterNo, you are right but userland will make tivoisation impractical before the kernel does.Jan 02 22:54
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 02 22:54
MinceRhow's gnu userland doing in switching to v3?Jan 02 22:54
tessier_GNU requires everyone sign over their contributions to the FSFJan 02 22:55
tessier_So GNU owns all of the code and it is easily relicensed.Jan 02 22:55
MinceRicJan 02 22:55
twitterOther projects are going GPL3 too.Jan 02 22:55
tessier_MinceR: The majority of the kernel would have to be rewritten. Especially since it is hard to really tell who owns what.Jan 02 22:56
PetoKraustime for herdJan 02 22:57
PetoKrausseriouslyJan 02 22:57
twitterAll that sounds like a lot of work for something that's not really a threat.Jan 02 22:59
twitterA far smaller project would be to rewrite OpenSSH, but why bother when it's already free software?Jan 02 22:59
PetoKrauscause herd is better designJan 02 22:59
PetoKraus;)Jan 02 22:59
PetoKrausit just happens to be not working :PJan 02 23:00
twitterDon't let me keep you from your fun.  :)Jan 02 23:00
MinceRtessier_: i think git knows what part was written by whomJan 02 23:00
MinceRgit blameJan 02 23:00
tessier_Bit git has only been used recently.Jan 02 23:00
tessier_ButJan 02 23:00
MinceRthey've imported the repo of a similar vcs thoughJan 02 23:00
tessier_With a lot of detective work and email archives and version control it might be possible.Jan 02 23:00
PetoKraustwitter: what do you meanJan 02 23:00
tessier_They used bitkeeper for a while before gitJan 02 23:01
tessier_Not sure what was used before bitkeeprJan 02 23:01
MinceRiirc git was written to read bitkeeper's repoJan 02 23:01
PetoKraustwitter: it IS fun :) just imagine the beautiful clusterfuck possibilites!!!Jan 02 23:01
MinceRi'd prefer hurd tooJan 02 23:01
twitterPlease work on Hurd if that's what you enjoy.Jan 02 23:01
MinceRbut it needs to matureJan 02 23:01
PetoKrausit needs to work :)Jan 02 23:01
twitterDebian has a working implementation.  Last time I looked it was not "production ready"Jan 02 23:02
PetoKrausyes. and the hardware support will be a bit poorJan 02 23:03
twitterHow to stay happy is a stupid world 02 23:05
twitterLike RMS said, "I'm always happy when I'm protesting."Jan 02 23:07
*Roy_B ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 02 23:09
twitterIt's upgrade time.  That's always cheery.Jan 02 23:09
schestowitzHey, Roy_B Jan 02 23:12
Roy_BHeyJan 02 23:13
schestowitzHURD could reuse lots of bits from LinuxJan 02 23:13
schestowitzBut some can't be relicenced as GPLv3Jan 02 23:13
schestowitzWhere they can't, they can be rewritten.Jan 02 23:13
schestowitzAnd stuff be fit to the message-passing modelJan 02 23:13
tessier_I've been using Linux for 15 years and so far I've never heard anything good about HURD.Jan 02 23:16
tessier_It's message passing etc but lots of other OS's have come and gone in the time that HURD has been just around the corner.Jan 02 23:16
PetoKrausyeahJan 02 23:16
twitterhere's a funny for the AlexH heckler 02 23:16
PetoKrausit's mainly just... that last GNU piece. nonconformism and stuffJan 02 23:17
schestowitzMessage-passing is slow; Linux is stable; why would anyone want it on a server?Jan 02 23:18
schestowitztwitter: yes, I saw that. The hecklers try to threaten us with libel and "horrible things will happen" all the time.Jan 02 23:18
twitterHmm, I missed the threats.Jan 02 23:19
schestowitzThe stalker of yours.Jan 02 23:19
twitterOh yeah, they have been ugly lately.Jan 02 23:20
twitterNothing new there.Jan 02 23:20
twitterWith the take down of Technocrat and slow down at GL, they have more time for BN and Slashdot.Jan 02 23:21
twitterSlashdot has been nasty, as almost all holidays are.  The trolls don't take vacations.Jan 02 23:21
schestowitzTake down?Jan 02 23:22
schestowitzIt was not passive.Jan 02 23:22
Roy_BAFAIK, Perens decided to quit -- that's allJan 02 23:23
twitterHe got creeped out by the trolls.Jan 02 23:23
Roy_BHe somehow wanted to make a business out of it.Jan 02 23:23
twitterHe wanted it to pay for editors to make better content.Jan 02 23:24
schestowitzTrolls?Jan 02 23:24
schestowitzDid he say this?Jan 02 23:24
Roy_BLike LWN, I suppose, which is really a good site.Jan 02 23:24
schestowitzI saw some comments in /,.Jan 02 23:24
Roy_BI have the impression he didn't give it enough time to work or maybe it was just bad timing.Jan 02 23:25
tessier_ 02 23:25
twitterHis message said, "Certain elements of the community that developed here, unfortunately, creep me out."Jan 02 23:25
tessier_Sad but interesting story.Jan 02 23:25
tessier_schestowitz: You saw it in comments on /.? Wow, it must be true. ;)Jan 02 23:26
twitterMy usual stalkers had the nerve to say that I was responsible.  Funny isn't it?Jan 02 23:26
Roy_BOK, but that's a little hard to believe.  He's been around long enough.Jan 02 23:26
twitterThe story was true, I cut and pasted it from technocrat.netJan 02 23:27
twitterIt's hard to tell, I did not see Perens comment on it.Jan 02 23:27
schestowitztwitter: someone said something that I pasted here.Jan 02 23:28
Roy_BHas he ever read COLA and seen what goes on there?Jan 02 23:28
tessier_I don't know why anyone reads COLA. I don't know why I ever read it.Jan 02 23:29
Roy_BThat would either freak him out immediately or steel him up.Jan 02 23:29
Roy_BTrue ...Jan 02 23:29
twitterUntil he says anything else, I'll accept his main reasons, " This has happened because the site never achieved the ability to financially sustain its editorial staff and system expenses with its revenues."Jan 02 23:29
Roy_BCould be just a victim of the economy, just bad timing.Jan 02 23:30
schestowitzRoy_B: it's a moving targetJan 02 23:30
schestowitzYou go somewhere else, they chase you there.Jan 02 23:30
twitterThat or that he did not give it enough attention or business method.Jan 02 23:30
schestowitzTrust me, they are assigned to just cause trouble.Jan 02 23:30
schestowitzThey are not only in COLA.Jan 02 23:31
schestowitzThey do the same things in other sites with mutiple accounts even.Jan 02 23:31
schestowitzI just got this message 30 mins ago:Jan 02 23:31
Roy_BI can't see any other reason someone would keep at it for 10 years.Jan 02 23:31
schestowitz"If you are wondering about their ruthlessness, I think it is planned that way.  It reminds me of organised crime, they get paid to do a job, and that job is to prevent any progress of any other product. "Jan 02 23:31
twitterM$ trolls are everywhere.  A friend of mine compared them to the Gestapo.  I recoiled at the time.Jan 02 23:31
schestowitz"The more dirty, the less it is suspected.  It is all about money, and there are no rules except that one company wins, no ifs, no ands, no buts.  It is a win at all costs type philosophy."Jan 02 23:31
schestowitz"IMHO, it is a deliberately engineered that way. This is why they tried to get Roy expelled from school, Mark's employer to take punitive measures, ad nauseum."Jan 02 23:32
schestowitz"This is why it is important for none of them to know the exacting specifics of one's employment.  It would not surprise me if someone had already contacted Plateau Telephone in Clovis.  (I left them in November 2005, it would do them no good.) "Jan 02 23:32
schestowitzPeople have their stlakers there tooJan 02 23:32
Roy_BSounds familiar - like the TE rules ...Jan 02 23:33
schestowitzyes!Jan 02 23:34
schestowitzBut they don't end in COLAJan 02 23:34
schestowitzWhere the people exist and communicate, the trolls shalt roamJan 02 23:35
twitterWell, all of my classmates have gotten jobs in the last year and so have many of next class.Jan 02 23:35
Roy_BI remember one from about 10 years ago.  There was a Web site called "Boycott Microsoft".Jan 02 23:35
Roy_BIt was by Mitch Stone.  One day he gets a call from someone at aJan 02 23:35
twitterI did better than many of those people and can't explain how more than a dozen good interviews have failed to land me a job.Jan 02 23:35
Roy_BMicrosoft branch office who wants to discuss the Web site.Jan 02 23:35
Roy_BThe caller eveidently thought the site was put up by an employee withoutJan 02 23:36
Roy_Bauthorisation.Jan 02 23:36
Roy_BBut he found out otherwise.Jan 02 23:36
twitterI've seen evidence of my communications being monitored and know how easy it would be to fuck up any kind of job application.Jan 02 23:36
schestowitzRoy_B: it's almost shut downJan 02 23:37
schestowitzThis was discussed in IRCJan 02 23:37
schestowitzhe sort of moved but the links brokeJan 02 23:37
schestowitzIt just gives 404s now.Jan 02 23:37
Roy_BToo badJan 02 23:37
Roy_BIt was pretty dated.  Hopefully there's still the Wayback machine.Jan 02 23:38
schestowitzYes, it is.Jan 02 23:38
schestowitzIt still existsJan 02 23:38
schestowitzBut the links to it brokeJan 02 23:38
twitterThe fact of the matter is the M$ works to destroy individuals all around the world.Jan 02 23:44
twitterIf you write bad things about them, they will come for you.Jan 02 23:45
schestowitzDuhJan 02 23:45
schestowitzThere are exampleJan 02 23:45
schestowitz*sJan 02 23:45
schestowitzSee the comments in the TE itemJan 02 23:45
schestowitzSome people from New Zealand spokeJan 02 23:46
schestowitzMicrosoft smeared behind the scene (hush hush)Jan 02 23:46
twitterWell, that makes them very evil.Jan 02 23:47
twitterA global menace that should be eliminated.Jan 02 23:47
schestowitzI got some E-mails from large companies. They might use this.Jan 02 23:48
twitterI hope they do.  As an individual, there's no way for me to trace back what's been done.Jan 02 23:49
schestowitzConversely (sort of), this might restraint Microsoft's actions. Their tactics are now known and therefore shallowJan 02 23:49
twitterThey should be punished for what they have done.Jan 02 23:49
twitteron a happier note, I discovered the kio-apt package the other day.  It rocks.Jan 02 23:53
schestowitzIs this verifiable? (CFR) 02 23:53
twitterlookingJan 02 23:54
schestowitzI'm not entirely familiar with the noise and the signal.Jan 02 23:55
twitter79 kbs, slow Cox, slowJan 02 23:55
schestowitzI sure find it curious that an editor sort of refuses to publish Microsoft criticism where it is obvious and newsworthyJan 02 23:56
schestowitzEither obedience, bias, or cowardice are to blameJan 02 23:56
schestowitzAppointments in media favour conformity.Jan 02 23:56
twitterCowardice is a mistake, M$ will eliminate it's opposition no matter what they do.Jan 02 23:56
twitterYou can't appease them, ever.Jan 02 23:57
schestowitzThat's not the nature of such a business.Jan 02 23:58
schestowitzBut the problems come from higher abiveJan 02 23:58
schestowitzLack of regulation for startersJan 02 23:58
schestowitzThose above Microsoft need Microsoft for the back doors in WindowsJan 02 23:58
schestowitzThey also need this money Hoovers that keep the Helpless and Divided(E) with MS/NSA binaries.Jan 02 23:59
Roy_BSeems pretty credible to me.  BTW, there's a Wikipedia article: 02 23:59
schestowitzSo be sure, the US government will boost Apple and MS by all means possible.Jan 02 23:59
schestowitzThe American Government seems to be calling it "information wars"Jan 02 23:59
twitter 02 23:59

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