Bonum Certa Men Certa

Antitrust: How Microsoft Schemed to Derail Dell GNU/Linux

Dell monitor logo



IT'S NOT UNCOMMON to state the obvious, but concrete proof can make all the difference in the world, especially in court. As we've already shown, Microsoft's strategy has less to do with self improvement & development but more to do with targeted sabotage against attempts of competitors to... well, just to compete. Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable; If not by force, then by brainwash [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] (control the minds to avoid direct and out-of-hand confrontations).



“Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable...”Last week we gave evidence of this strategy occurring at Wal-Mart and this week we share antitrust material which shows how Microsoft reacted to GNU/Linux at Dell .

Exhibit px09280 (2002) [PDF] from Comes vs Microsoft contains correspondence between Microsoft seniors Bill Veghte and Paul Flessner (the guy who said "we should whack [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value").

They swap opinions and plans with Windows executives like Brian Valentine and Jim Allchin [1, 2, 3] in the background, in addition to anti-Linux characters like Orlando Ayala [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6], even some of today's chiefs like Craig Mundie and Bob Muglia.

The subject of the messages is "Goldman Sachs Linux Panel." The Goldman Sachs Group is close to Microsoft and also a shareholder, it is backer of PSI and EDGI taker too. Here are some bits of interest. The text, in full, is appended below.

Bill Veghte writes:

It's not $50 of margin for Dell. It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today. That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing). It is just a fact.


Bill Veghte also writes:

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made... Linux is Unix on x86. Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers. Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise. Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market. Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

[...]

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell. We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell. I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open. I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts. I am asking that: a) we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux b) we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


Paul Flessner writes:

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do. We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest. I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket. Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that. I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance. But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc. It is an advantage for Linux.


Bill Veghte replies:

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions. I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example). I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard. Today, they do not. When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.


Veghte also expresses this concern:

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows. He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows. Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.


He wrote in the briefing:

Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell. He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell. He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow. He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system. He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC. He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux. Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

[...]

Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.


To summarise, Dell supported GNU/Linux, several companies praised the platform, and Microsoft pumped money into Dell, potentially in attempt to pressure it out of GNU/Linux.




Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit px09280, as text








From:       Bill Veghte

Sent:       Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:59 AM

To:           Paul Flessner

Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


It's not $50 of margin for Dell.  It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today.  That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing).  It is just a fact.



---- Original Message ----
From:     Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:02AM
To:    Bill Veghte
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I would go for the $50 pts of margin.  You need to think more broadly.  All you say is true but my statement is true as well. It is just fact.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:08AM
To: Paul Flessner; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Sigh....Yes, I can disagree with your statement that Dell's behavior won't change.  If it won't change, then we should just throw in the towel and settle for %50 market share at best.  We will change Dell's behavior by thinking thru their motivations and opportunities and being very creative.

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made...  Linux is Unix on x86.  Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers.  Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise.  Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market.  Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

All of these things are reality.  Given these realities, lets add our perspective to the picture.  If I am Michael Dell, I have to believe that my #1 competitor long term is IBM.  Dell has to decide what their competitive strategy is going to be against IBM.  If they are going to compete with IBM and it services driven organization, they are a) going to have to build a strong relationship with our field and service partners, b) they are going to have to bet on our engineering engine as their primary innovation machine.  That means a close partnership with us.  They need to understand that with the passage of time Linux and IBM become more and more equivalent.

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell.  We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell.  I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open.  I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts.  I am asking that:
a)  we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux
b)  we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


4/6/2005

Plaintiff's Exhibit
9280
Comes V Microsoft

MS-CC-RN 000000982974
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




This is an engineering statement, this is a marketing statement, this is a field statement.

---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:13AM
To: Bill Veghte; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

You can't disagree with my statement.  It is fact.  It is capitalism, like gravity.

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do.  We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest.  I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket.  Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that.  I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance.  But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc.  It is an advantage for Linux.

Where are our advantages?  This is a productive discussion.

This is just life.  I am not giving up.  I don't have a Penguin in my basement.  I LOVE Windows which is why I want us to face this so we can figure it out.

The sooner we recognize it the sooner we can get our heads around it and decide how to go after it.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Boy do I respectfully disagree with the statement "Dell's behavior is predictable and won't change...

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions.  I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example).  I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard.  Today, they do not.  When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.

I think there are two very specific actions:
---> alignment in the field pushing Dell on the one that they are going to be most uncomfortabe with... Unix app migration (Kevin & Joe Marengi)
---> Clarity and metrics around Windows Server vs. Redhat in marketing and technology (product group and OEM group)

To Rick's last email on this thread around actions, I want to be careful we don't personalize it with Russ because I want to win him back but the key to that is thru Joe.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982975
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:07AM
To: Bill Veghte; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


The obvious but:  Dell is a HW company.  They are facing tremendous margin pressure in a commodity market.  If you are Dell you are being forced to squeeze every dollar out of the business you can to survive.  Given that situation you would be looking hard at that MS OEM payment.

Think back to Jim Cash's talk this week.  These guys are living that situation.

I don't have the answer here but Dell's behavior is predictable and it won't change.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:55AM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was sitting right across the panel from him.  We waved at each other briefly before the panel started.

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows.  He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows.  Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.

Dell is and must continue to be a partner with us but we need to be very aggressive in comparing our position and their investment in RedHat.

---- Original Message ----
From: Brian Valentine 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Bill Veghte; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Did Russ Holt know you were there?  I can't imagine he would be this blatant against us if he knew you were there.  If he knew and he is really doing this, then we have some serious thinking to do around this relationship.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982976
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




Mundie
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees
Subject: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was down at Goldman SW conference earlier this week doing a keynote and on the agenda there was a panel discussion on Linux after me so I asked to participate.  The panel consisted of CFO of RedHat, VPs from Oracle, BMG, BEA, Veritas and Dell.  It turned into quite a lively discussion as you can imagine.  Couple quick notes...

Dell & Linux:
Each company's position was quite predictably slamming us but the one that really got me animated was Dell.  Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell.  He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell.  He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow.  He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system.  He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC.  He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux.  Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

I spoke to Rick Wong about today but we need to make darn certain that our investments with Dell are benchmarked against any investments they make in RedHat.  The majority of their business is on Windows and their marketing, their website, and their investment should reflect this or we should call them on it.  Same goes for things like sales training or events.  When we do events, field engagement and measure our progress it should be benchmarked against the results and/or what they are doing with RedHat.  Dell is a key partner for us and one that imho will grow in significance in the coming years so it is a tricky balance but one that we need to be more aggressive around.

Linux & the enterprise:

This was the focus.  RedHat CFO spent his entire time talking about how their entire focus was Linux in the enterprise and all the things that they were doing to make it enterprise ready.  He then went on and on around the certification and testing programs that they had put in place and the partnerships they were building with companies like IBM, Dell, Oracle, Veritas, BMC, BEA etc.. Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.

Linux Development Model:
Each of the panelists talked about the interaction with RedHat and the community development model as a real highlight for them.  They all talked about how it made it easier to impact the direction of the platform (including Dell ironically) and how transparent the whole process was.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982977
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

"How Many Friends Do You Have?"
"Do bots count?" "Friends in Facebook?" "Does a girlfriend chatbot count as a friend?"
Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) Responds to Crises Only After It's Way Too Late
The SRA does not do its job. The new chief's job is face-saving PR in the media.
The Techrights Team Makes the Platform Faster
The infrastructure is already fast
France Does Not Need Digital Weapons Disguised as Social and as Media
French people lost interest in Social Control 'Media' (or Networks)
 
Links 18/02/2026: DMCA Weakened, Anna’s Archive Still Thriving
Links for the day
Links 18/02/2026: Gig 'Economy' Condemned, Microsoft Insulting/Stressing People With False Slop Predictions
Links for the day
Twitter Falling to 1% in Africa's Largest Nation (Algeria)
About 15 years ago the regime in Egypt got toppled (and others had been too) partly because of social control media such as Twitter
Mozilla Firefox Died in Afghanistan
Mozilla has been a complete disaster
Gemini Links 18/02/2026: Astronomy and Texinfo
Links for the day
Are IBM CEO and IBM CFO Ready for Financial Audit That Topples the Shares by 50% in One Day?
The same "chefs" that cooked up Kyndryl Holdings Inc are still in charge of the IBM kitchen
"Senior AI Reporter" at Slop Technica/Ars Sloppica Has Written Nothing in Nearly a Week, Did Conde Nast Suspend Him for Fake Articles With Fake Quotes?
Slop Technica/Ars Sloppica is having a serious credibility issue right now
Linux Foundation Puts Slop Images, Not Just Slop Text, in Linux.com
More of the same then
The Register MS Paid-for 'Articles' (Ads) Seem to be LLM Slop Again
If it's true that The Register MS is resorting to these marketing tactics, will they later delete the evidence (as they did months ago)?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, February 17, 2026
IRC logs for Tuesday, February 17, 2026
Microsoft Had Mass Layoffs Every Month Last Year, This Year It's Delaying a Lot to "Prove" Rumours That Crashed Its Stock... 'Wrong'
Building a bigger snowball for later
Red Hat Is Not a Company Anymore, Amid Bluewashing and Mass Layoffs It's Merely IBM "Division" or "Brand" or "Product"
systemd at this point is sort of like IBM/Microsoft thing
IBM suffers "worst weekly drop in six years", Microsoft's MSN calls it "buying opportunity"
Ask Cramer what to do
Still Some Slopfarms in View, Sometimes Targetting "Linux"
That's a total of at least 4 in Google News today, coming from 3 sources
Gemini Links 17/02/2026: 3D-Printed Stainless Steel Smartwatch and Gopher Bay Offline
Links for the day
Links 17/02/2026: Machine Rage and Microsoft Kills XBox Social Clubs
Links for the day
EPO "Productivity" Will Fall Off a Cliff If Examiners Stick to the European Patent Convention (EPC) and Follow the Real Rules
The EPO's "Cocaine Communication Manager" would hate to see the next "productivity" metrics
The Problem is Not Technology, the Problem is Really Bad Things Sold or Imposed as "Tech" (Like a Religion Built Around Technology)
Don't hate technology, hate the corporations that abuse it to promote coercion, exploitation etc.
Resisting IBM and EPO Corruption
Rise up against EPO dictatorship next week
Where Slop Meets Ghostwriting: It's a False Analogy
It's a false analogy
Links 17/02/2026: Why OpenClaw is Very Sleazy and Ars Technica Exposed as Hub of LLM Slop (Credibility Destroyed Overnight)
Links for the day
Benj Edwards (Ars Technica) Used Fake Articles to Promote Ponzi Scheme for Conde Nast and Its Client (Marketing)
What Ars Technica and Conde Nast do here helps defraud the general public
Slop Technica: Ars Technica Seems Like Repeat Offender, a Part-Time Slopfarm
The culprits are repeat offenders, but the publisher will never admit this in public
Only One in 50 Saudis Would Use Microsoft for Search, Almost Same as Would Use Russia's Yandex
If statCounter is to be trusted
Microsoft's "AI" Concerns Are All Indian (or Low-Paid Workers Who Work Extra Hours Unpaid)
portraying charlatans and frauds like they're some kind of visionaries and luminaries
Microsoft Turned Bing Into Censorship Machine of China, But Bing Is Pegged at a Mere 2% in Asia, Yandex is Bigger
Expect many Bing layoffs some time soon (like in past years)
Just Like The Register MS, Conde Nast's Ars Technica Has Just Publicly Admitted That It Published Fake Articles (Slop) Made by LLMs About Serious Subjects
Conde Nast might shut Ars Technica down to escape the bad publicity/association
Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) Way Too Slow to Respond to Financial Fraud at Law Firms, in Effect Helping Those Law Firms Defraud Many More People (Fleecing Clients)
Who will hold the SRA accountable for this?
Techrights Became a Hub for News That IBM/Red Hat Doesn't Want You to See (and Pays Mainstream Media to Distract From)
the more viciously the notorious organisation attacks the reporter, the greater the interest in what the reporter has to say
EPO's Central Staff Committee on Fourth Technical Meeting, Two Days Before First of (At Least) 4 Winter Strikes at the Second-Largest European Institution
“future orientations on the salary adjustment procedure”
IBM's Collapse Continues, Half of EU Countries to Have Mass Layoffs, "IBM Clearly Disinvests From Europe" Says IBM European Works Council
Recent publication
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, February 16, 2026
IRC logs for Monday, February 16, 2026
Gemini Links 17/02/2026: Alpenglow Industries' Closure and Gemini Server Issues
Links for the day
The Southern California Linux Expo (“SCALE”) or SCALE 23x Becomes Microsoft
It's not supporting the event, it is buying it.
Where Microsoft's Bing Cannot Even Reach 1% "Market Share"
Looking at "I" countries
Microsoft to Focus on Name-Dropping Buzzwords to Distract From Declining Business, IBM RAs (Layoffs) With Staff Stack-Ranked
Calling everything cloud or reclassifying as "AI"
Another EPO Strike One Week From Now, Local Staff Committee Munich to Discuss It This Week
Campinos MIA while Office staff goes on strike at least 4 times
Links 16/02/2026: Barack Obama Responds to Racist Cheeto and Benjamin Mako Hill Studies Online Communities
Links for the day
Gemini Links 16/02/2026: Task Completed by Avoidance and "Playing Again With Akkoma"
Links for the day
Happy Birthday (or Anniversary) to SoylentNews
"Happy Birthday SoylentNews"
Techrights' Architecture
Stability is the main goal
IBM Reduces the Thresholds for Acceptance (and the Salaries)
Are chatbots good enough as IBM staff?
When It Comes to Rust, Keep All the Eyes on the Ball (Technical and Legal Perils, Sustainability Questions)
It's not about security or politics
Linux Foundation Continues Falling Off a Cliff in Geminispace
Gemini Protocol will turn 7 this summer
Links 16/02/2026: cURL’s Daniel Stenberg Asserts That Slop is DDoSing Free Software, But Still Uses a Plagiarism and GPL-Violating Blender (Microsoft GitHub)
Links for the day
The Techrights Community Never Needed Money, Only Goodwill
We accomplish things by a track record of suppressed facts
"AboutCode" is a Microsoft Proxy and Microsoft's Acquisition of the OSI Advances Via OSI Moles
presenting direct evidence anybody can verify
Social Control Media is Just a Digital Weapon
Social control media is not social and not media
They Will Call Smart People "Luddites"
Is society "seeing the light"?
Microsoft Amutable Already Reveals That Its Focus Is Not Linux, It'll Promote "Remote Attestation"
This is basically an attack on Software Freedom, even if they toss around the brand "Linux"
More People in Chad Move to GNU/Linux
Last year we began to see GNU/Linux rising there - a trend which continues this year
Dr. Andy Farnell on How Universities and Culture of Education Got Crushed by "Technofascist Nightmare"
Farnell says he "already soft-quit in [his] mind"
Debt of Broadcom Grew by More Than 50%, Broadcom is Deeper in Debt Than Google
Expect many more cuts
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, February 15, 2026
IRC logs for Sunday, February 15, 2026