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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 23rd, 2009 - Part 2


Enter the IRC channel now

oiaohmWhy we don't know.Feb 23 06:14
balzacno, you've got to use fiberopticFeb 23 06:14
balzaccopper is slowFeb 23 06:14
oiaohmThat is the problem.Feb 23 06:14
oiaohmI said we have tech problems.Feb 23 06:14
balzacyou have gov problemsFeb 23 06:14
balzactech problems are the least of your problemsFeb 23 06:14
oiaohmReally tech.Feb 23 06:14
oiaohmIts cost of tech that lasts makes lot of things here too expensive to do.Feb 23 06:15
balzacrupert murdoch came from AUFeb 23 06:15
balzacso did John HowardFeb 23 06:15
balzacAustralia produces 1st rate scumbags just like the US.Feb 23 06:15
oiaohmNow someone designs a fiber that does not upset sharks.Feb 23 06:15
balzaci'm sure your country has plenty of themFeb 23 06:15
oiaohmIsland links become way cheaper.Feb 23 06:15
balzaca bit of research on sharks, a new casing on your cableFeb 23 06:16
oiaohmLast 40 years so far nothing that the sharks will leave alone has been found.Feb 23 06:16
oiaohmIf it has fiber on.Feb 23 06:16
oiaohmFunny enough you lay it they don't touch it until you start sending data.Feb 23 06:17
balzacso there must be some resistance which is creating a field which tickles themFeb 23 06:17
balzacinsulate it betterFeb 23 06:17
balzacsharks are not a big dealFeb 23 06:18
oiaohmSo far no luck.Feb 23 06:18
balzacluck isn't going to get it doenFeb 23 06:18
balzacputting Rupert Murdoch in prison would get the job doneFeb 23 06:18
oiaohmProblem we don't know what the sharks are picking up.Feb 23 06:18
balzacactually, fine the rotten SOB for 7BFeb 23 06:18
oiaohmIts a little hard to stop a signal until you know what it is.Feb 23 06:19
balzacoiaohm: no more excuses. it's the fault of Rupert Murdoch and John Howard, both of whom should be fed to sharks. Along with Bush and Cheney.Feb 23 06:19
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balzacIf we can feed those guys to sharks, there is no problem we can't solveFeb 23 06:19
balzacsharks have sensitive skin to electrical phenomenonFeb 23 06:20
balzacthat's already knownFeb 23 06:20
oiaohmCost to do australia would drop massively if the island links could be done cheaply like everything else.Feb 23 06:20
balzacwell, I'd put 50,000,000 on shark research and it would be solved quicklyFeb 23 06:20
balzac7B is a lot of doughFeb 23 06:20
oiaohmAlso better designed ripper that did not break at solid white quatz.Feb 23 06:21
balzacyour problem is basically Rupert Murdoch and his satellite networkFeb 23 06:21
balzache is your problem and there is none other than himFeb 23 06:21
balzache makes his coin from controlling network accessFeb 23 06:21
balzacand he hates freedomFeb 23 06:21
oiaohmIts time balzac it been over 30 years of research and still a cable other than coper has not been found that does not upset them.  Or a form of shielding that works.Feb 23 06:22
balzacI don't even believe itFeb 23 06:23
balzacthat can't be trueFeb 23 06:23
oiaohmOur major out link cables have been ran around there path.Feb 23 06:23
balzacit's an excuse to keep AU in the darkFeb 23 06:23
oiaohmJust is a very major detor to avoid the taz ones.Feb 23 06:23
balzac●Likely, the rest of the cables have been damaged by fishing nets or boat anchors (those two causes account for 65% and 18% of all undersea cable problems).Feb 23 06:25
oiaohmTaz also has a secound problem.Feb 23 06:27
oiaohmBass straight it self.  Extreamlly high currents.Feb 23 06:27
balzacthe problem is rupert murdochFeb 23 06:27
oiaohmNot reallyFeb 23 06:27
balzache's got the media monopolyFeb 23 06:27
oiaohmReally.Feb 23 06:27
balzactell me he hasn't got Au by the ballsFeb 23 06:28
oiaohmWe have 4 commerical media companies.Feb 23 06:28
oiaohmHe only has a interest in 1.Feb 23 06:28
balzacAustralia's a lot easier to control than the US and he's been controlling our mediaFeb 23 06:28
oiaohmNo control of the other 3Feb 23 06:28
oiaohmYou forget the packer familly.Feb 23 06:28
balzacyeah, well he only owns one cable news channel here as wellFeb 23 06:28
balzacbut it was the official cable news channel of the Bush administrationFeb 23 06:29
oiaohmWe have a mirror force to rupertFeb 23 06:29
balzacNow Rupert Murdoch is hating obamaFeb 23 06:29
oiaohmYou are not that lucky.Feb 23 06:29
balzacFox served Bush day in and day out.Feb 23 06:29
oiaohmPackers never had interested in overseas investments..Feb 23 06:29
oiaohmSo you got stuck with the worse one.Feb 23 06:30
oiaohmRupert is not an Australian cit either.Feb 23 06:30
oiaohmHe is a USA cit these days.Feb 23 06:30
oiaohmSo he cannot own an Australian media company as the major share holder.Feb 23 06:31
balzacwell, Au doesn't require as much resources for him to control your mediaFeb 23 06:32
balzacI'm sure he is your worst problemFeb 23 06:32
balzacregardless of his US citizenshipFeb 23 06:32
oiaohmNopFeb 23 06:32
oiaohmBasically his control here is min.Feb 23 06:33
oiaohmLots most of his control when he took up US citFeb 23 06:33
oiaohmHis investers double crossed him.Feb 23 06:33
oiaohmBasically we exported our problem.Feb 23 06:34
oiaohmPackers on the other hand are as strong as ever.Feb 23 06:35
balzacwell, who provides your network services? what companies?Feb 23 06:35
balzacthey are your problemFeb 23 06:35
balzacso your problem is a few people, not the sharks or the size of yoru continentFeb 23 06:35
balzacthese people probably pay fishing boats to drag their anchors across the cables and blame it on sharksFeb 23 06:35
balzacso they can control accessFeb 23 06:36
oiaohmNot likely.Feb 23 06:36
balzacby controlling access, they have enough funds to lobby your govFeb 23 06:36
oiaohmWe have radar coverage.Feb 23 06:36
oiaohmAny boat near cable is impounded.Feb 23 06:36
balzacwell, the shark problem is clearly exaggeratedFeb 23 06:36
oiaohmIts just some areas.  Its a particular species of shark.Feb 23 06:37
balzacsharks are no match for peopleFeb 23 06:37
balzacalright, i have to snoozeFeb 23 06:37
oiaohmHere boat hitting cable does happen.Feb 23 06:38
balzaci hope you're inspired to point the finger at whoever is choking your data accessFeb 23 06:38
balzacinstead of the poor fishFeb 23 06:38
oiaohmSome is tech.Feb 23 06:38
oiaohmSome is goverments.Feb 23 06:38
oiaohmIssue here that australia has some unque problems.Feb 23 06:38
balzacnothing crocodile dundee couldn't handleFeb 23 06:39
oiaohmLucky salt water crocodiles take no interest in fiber.Feb 23 06:39
balzac"That's not a knife, *this* is a knife!"Feb 23 06:40
oiaohmThat is kinda the problem.Feb 23 06:40
balzacok, i'm going to snoozeFeb 23 06:40
oiaohmWhat you guys use with your areas is fine.  We just need bigger and stronger.Feb 23 06:40
balzacheheFeb 23 06:41
oiaohmNow when someone invents that our networking problems will disappear.Feb 23 06:41
oiaohmLike rippers that don't snap hitting really hard rock.Feb 23 06:41
oiaohmThat is most of our cost in land base laying comes from that.Feb 23 06:42
oiaohmSnapping the rippers off.Feb 23 06:42
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schestowitzMaybe I should too. It's 7am here.Feb 23 06:54
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schestowitzAlready light..Feb 23 06:54
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schestowitzGood night... it's almost morning.Feb 23 07:06
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ZiggyFishWord of warning, the mono libraries are downloadable from the android marketFeb 23 10:01
MinceRthe latest release from Microogvell? :>Feb 23 10:07
MinceRhayFeb 23 10:08
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trmancoHi guysFeb 23 11:07
trmancoMicrosoft wants refund from some laid off workers: just read thisFeb 23 11:07
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mib_d24w28hello..Feb 23 11:17
mib_d24w28is there anyone who can tell me what atmosphere is there at the epo office about softaware patents?Feb 23 11:19
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trmanco 23 11:30
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oiaohmHaving a good day schestowitzFeb 23 11:33
schestowitzheyFeb 23 11:33
oiaohmMy day of fun is about to being.  Data recovery.Feb 23 11:38
schestowitzAnything vital? Did someone rm -rf /home/mickeymouse ?Feb 23 11:43
oiaohmHarddrive stopedFeb 23 11:43
oiaohmComplete accounts for business on it.Feb 23 11:43
oiaohmOk not my companies.Feb 23 11:43
schestowitzAhhhh....Feb 23 11:43
schestowitzMaybe it 'stopped'Feb 23 11:44
schestowitzMeltdownFeb 23 11:44
schestowitzHide the evidenceFeb 23 11:44
schestowitzWe 'lost' data :-) j/kFeb 23 11:44
schestowitz"Oops"Feb 23 11:44
oiaohmNopFeb 23 11:44
oiaohmIt was disk failureFeb 23 11:44
schestowitzSure, sure :-DFeb 23 11:44
oiaohmOwns to a bad batch of disks.Feb 23 11:45
oiaohmTo be correct primarly and back up disk were from the same batch.Feb 23 11:45
schestowitzYeah, I know. I'm just joking, but it's also a classic plotFeb 23 11:45
oiaohmYep very big mistakeFeb 23 11:45
schestowitzMicrosoft actually fits hereFeb 23 11:45
oiaohmBoth died in mins of each other.Feb 23 11:45
schestowitzThey pretended they lost E_mail backupFeb 23 11:45
schestowitzThey blamed H-P  for bad backupFeb 23 11:45
oiaohmNote to you schestowitzFeb 23 11:45
schestowitzSo the evidence of crime could not be brought backFeb 23 11:46
oiaohmNever put backups to harddrives on the same batch drives.Feb 23 11:46
schestowitzoiaohm: you know I was kidding, right?Feb 23 11:46
oiaohmI know.Feb 23 11:46
schestowitzoiaohm: Hehe :-)Feb 23 11:46
oiaohmBut data recovery I don't kid.Feb 23 11:46
schestowitzSame HDDFeb 23 11:46
schestowitz"Hey, Scott, did you make a backup?"Feb 23 11:46
oiaohmSome of my stories sound like pulling leg.Feb 23 11:46
schestowitzScott: "Sure, I copies all my file to 'drive' D:Feb 23 11:46
oiaohmSad part they are true.Feb 23 11:46
schestowitzPartitition...Feb 23 11:47
oiaohmLike person open drive to oil squeaks.  Yes it does happen.Feb 23 11:47
oiaohmThen wondering why drive does not work any more.Feb 23 11:47
schestowitz:-)Feb 23 11:47
oiaohmAfter closer inspection they used super glue.Feb 23 11:47
schestowitzIt's not a typewriterFeb 23 11:47
oiaohmInstead of oil.Feb 23 11:47
schestowitzLMAOFeb 23 11:47
oiaohmYes some days it like what were this person thinking.Feb 23 11:48
schestowitzWhat's next? Fixing bad RAM with tongs and a magnifying glass?Feb 23 11:48
oiaohmIt bad enough opening a drive without a clean room.Feb 23 11:48
oiaohmNot quite tongs but I have seen the effect of hammer being used to insert ram.Feb 23 11:48
oiaohmIt did not want to go in because they had the stick backwards.Feb 23 11:49
oiaohmYes person put hammer threw montherboard.Feb 23 11:50
oiaohmThen was asking if it could be fixed.Feb 23 11:50
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oiaohmYou know the old joke about using cdrom drive a coffee cup holder.   Its not a joke there are some people out there dumb enough to do it.Feb 23 11:51
oiaohmData recovery the job to meet the next possiable darwin award winners.  Just make sure they don't kill you first.Feb 23 11:51
oiaohmGreatFeb 23 11:54
oiaohmJust had a sata cable fall.Feb 23 11:54
oiaohmBack to starting blocks again.Feb 23 11:54
oiaohmback in a bitFeb 23 11:56
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oiaohmRight just found my first annoying bug of Linux.Feb 23 12:00
oiaohmDon't have sata cable fall out of main drive.Feb 23 12:00
oiaohmPutting it back in Linux does not recover and move on.Feb 23 12:00
schestowitzThe cup-holder thing is a classic.Feb 23 12:02
oiaohmProblem is its trueFeb 23 12:02
oiaohmSo far in my IT history I have meet 15 people who have done it.Feb 23 12:03
oiaohmThen got me and expect me to fix there cup holder.Feb 23 12:03
oiaohmI was young once and believed humans could not be that dumb.Feb 23 12:05
oiaohmExperience is teaching me not matter how dump you think humans are there will always be another that makes you push that limit back.Feb 23 12:05
oiaohmHmm do you have a list of dumb things MS personal has said by any chance schestowitzFeb 23 12:11
oiaohmNo one needing more than 640 kb of ram from gates is a classic.Feb 23 12:12
schestowitzYesFeb 23 12:21
schestowitzI have some, but not groups by criteria like "Stupidity"Feb 23 12:22
schestowitz*groupedFeb 23 12:22
schestowitzGates denies saying the above BTWFeb 23 12:22
oiaohmNote 640 kb one is from 1981Feb 23 12:27
oiaohmAt the time who was to know.Feb 23 12:27
oiaohm"If something's expensive to develop, and somebody's not going to get paid, it won't get developed. So you decide: Do you want software to be written, or not?" in an interview in 1980.Feb 23 12:28
oiaohmThe foundation stone of closed source software.Feb 23 12:28
oiaohmIs it just me or is the IT news really slow at moment schestowitzFeb 23 12:31
schestowitzYes, very.Feb 23 12:33
schestowitzMany people laid offFeb 23 12:33
schestowitzI hear from them sometimes.Feb 23 12:33
oiaohmMIPS joining the linux foundation is about the only new news I have found recently.Feb 23 12:35
oiaohmI guess you also notices the number of computer mags now only web sites as well.Feb 23 12:36
schestowitz<<<<<<yesFeb 23 12:36
schestowitzoopsFeb 23 12:36
schestowitzbrackets=mistakeFeb 23 12:37
oiaohmIT bubble has burst.Feb 23 12:37
oiaohmQuestion now is how big of fall out.Feb 23 12:37
kentmaoiaohm: it's not just IT, it's pretty much everything which has burst.  Thank the bankers...  they invented something called "financial engineering", not realising that engineering is when you make something...  silly s*ds.Feb 23 12:40
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oiaohmLot of open source is not effected yet.Feb 23 12:43
kentmaopen-source will not be negatively affected in terms of it's existence or supportability.  personally, I think it'll be a big winner from the recession, as people, companies and organisations generally look to reduce their costs.Feb 23 12:44
schestowitzAlso transparency will be pursuedFeb 23 12:45
oiaohmOpen-source will have a crunch if it lasts long enough.Feb 23 12:45
schestowitzIt keeps vendors honestFeb 23 12:45
schestowitzoiaohm: no one company has a dependence here.Feb 23 12:46
schestowitzMicrosoft goes out of its way to give the false perception that it's stableFeb 23 12:46
schestowitzAnalysts and investors appa\rently wanted it to lay off a lot more people and change course.Feb 23 12:47
kentmaoiaohm: open-source cannot have a crunch per se, as it is just software.  The most likely outcome for those involved in open-source, however, is that they will continue to benefit because it's such a good option compared with the present expensive proprietary ones.  We're already seeing this with the netbook explosion.Feb 23 12:48
oiaohmOpen source support companies then kentmaFeb 23 12:49
oiaohmAt this stage companies are still health enough to pay for out side support.Feb 23 12:49
kentmaoiaohm: I think they will benefit from the recession considerably, as they offer a lower-cost alternative in a time when people look to reduce costs.Feb 23 12:49
oiaohmUsering program not paying support company.  Can be cheeper.Feb 23 12:50
oiaohmYes more risk as well.Feb 23 12:50
oiaohmProblem is how pushed to wall is company.Feb 23 12:50
kentmaI agree with you, which is why open-source will benefit - if you go open, you can pick and choose support, whereas proprietary solutions are pretty much one-shop, particularly when deep problems are found.Feb 23 12:51
kentmaconsider that Microsoft have had bugs in for years, perhaps even decades now, which have been known but remain unfixed...Feb 23 12:51
oiaohmThe problem here some of the most skilled programmers in the open source world are employeed by the support companies.Feb 23 12:52
oiaohmSo them suffering pain can cause issues.Feb 23 12:52
oiaohmHopefully it turns around before that happens.Feb 23 12:53
kentmaI agree with your concerns, of course, but open-source began as entirely unfunded, and I do not believe that this will change - it's about the entry-barrier to becoming a coder, which is very very low for open-source.   In fact, for many coders, continuing to work on key projects will help to maintain their employability as a kind of "live CV"Feb 23 12:53
benJImannavaFeb 23 12:54
benJImanyy;rFeb 23 12:54
benJImanOOps, wrong keyboard layout.Feb 23 12:54
oiaohmkentma idea that open source is unfund for major projects unfunded programmers is the minority.Feb 23 12:59
oiaohmProgrammers are normally paid to make something work for someone in the open source world.Feb 23 13:00
schestowitzJust posted: 23 13:06
oiaohmPeople love thinking as open source as magical.Feb 23 13:12
schestowitzFree software.Feb 23 13:22
schestowitzIt's not magic... no more than something like "freedom" can be called magic or. It's more of a state or condition.Feb 23 13:23
oiaohmOpen source still needs money in places.Feb 23 13:24
oiaohmJust how it gets money is different.Feb 23 13:24
oiaohmInstead of taking cash up front.  It takes cash when you want feature fast.Feb 23 13:26
oiaohmLong enough down turn could slow open source development.Feb 23 13:26
oiaohmOk by then everything in the software world is mostly going under.Feb 23 13:27
schestowitzPDFs dangerous in Windows: "Systems affected are Windows 2000, Windows Vista and Windows XP." < >Feb 23 13:38
schestowitzNew argument logic noticed: company says it lowers prices for charitable reasons rather than admitting that it's due to fear of losing the customers to cheaper alternatives. The power of spin..Feb 23 13:40
oiaohmThere is one problem with spin it has a habit of disappearing.Feb 23 13:46
schestowitzIn what sense?Feb 23 13:53
MinceRreader is an adobe product -- of course it's full of holesFeb 23 14:04
twitterRevisionism, I suppose.  The new lie never matches the old one.Feb 23 14:05
twitterfree software has been around for 25 years, oiaohm.  it's not going anywhere.Feb 23 14:05
twitterit can exist without money at all - when people want to make something for themselves the easiest place to start is with free software tools and parts.  when they are done there's no harm or cost to sharing.  the economics are a win for everyone.Feb 23 14:07
twitterthe less money there is to be made by selling software in a box, the more people will share.Feb 23 14:07
oiaohmtwitter exist yes.Feb 23 14:08
twitterThere's just not enough money in greed to be worth the trouble.Feb 23 14:08
oiaohmSpeed high speeds of development it has now depends on money.Feb 23 14:08
twitterThat's when people pay programmers to have new free features?  Nothing new there - that's how Stallman made a living 25 years ago.Feb 23 14:09
oiaohmDeep enough depression paying programmers will stop.Feb 23 14:09
oiaohmAs I said by the time open source is in trouble basically everything else is stuffed.Feb 23 14:10
twitterDeep enough depression, there will be no milk unless you diy.Feb 23 14:10
MinceRewFeb 23 14:10
twitterNever milked a cow Mincer?Feb 23 14:11
MinceRcow? who mentioned cows?Feb 23 14:11
MinceRyou said do it yourself.Feb 23 14:11
twittermanboobs make no milkFeb 23 14:11
MinceRyou never said using a cow to help with the process is permissible :>Feb 23 14:11
twitterwe have all been robbed, that's what depressions are all about.  if the theft is large enough, everyone will be hurt but free software is not going anywhere.Feb 23 14:12
twitterIf anything, economic downturn favors the free software and other sustainable and diy ways.Feb 23 14:13
oiaohmIt favors to a point.Feb 23 14:13
oiaohmPast particular points of everything stuffed.Feb 23 14:13
twitterReally?  At what point of economic failure will people want to buy Vista?Feb 23 14:13
twitterLOLFeb 23 14:13
twitterI can't afford my electric bill, better go buy a $100 copy of XP.Feb 23 14:14
oiaohmClosed source yes likely to die first.Feb 23 14:14
oiaohmThey are not setup for these downturns at all.Feb 23 14:14
oiaohmProblem comes in with lead coders.Feb 23 14:15
oiaohm /developersFeb 23 14:15
twitterand free software is likely to take non free software's place in *ALL CASES* (paraphrase of OS/2 being blown away)Feb 23 14:15
MinceRwhat's that problem?Feb 23 14:15
oiaohmFor open source project to operate effectively they need to funded.Feb 23 14:15
MinceRnot reallyFeb 23 14:15
oiaohmIe max effectiveness.Feb 23 14:15
MinceRthere are projects that work pretty well without fundingFeb 23 14:16
oiaohmSo they can put there full time into it.Feb 23 14:16
MinceRbecause they scratch an itch the developers haveFeb 23 14:16
MinceRor it's fun to do (for example, a game)Feb 23 14:16
oiaohmNot really.Feb 23 14:16
twitterthe sum of many part time efforts is greater than any funding can afford in full time employment.Feb 23 14:16
oiaohmMost games don't operate at max.Feb 23 14:16
twitteryeah, games just get done and work well.Feb 23 14:17
twitterlike the rest of free softwareFeb 23 14:17
oiaohmLinux kernel is operating at max.Feb 23 14:17
MinceRhm, and if there's no pay for developers because of the depression, what exactly are they going to do full-time?Feb 23 14:17
MinceRalso, since when does full-time even matter?Feb 23 14:17
oiaohmIt the means for it to quicky intergrate new features and have short release cycles.Feb 23 14:17
MinceRthe linux kernel is a good example of something a lot of people contribute a little each to.Feb 23 14:17
twitterthey are going to do some kind of thing to do a living, and software will always make that something easier.Feb 23 14:17
oiaohmWithout full time leads means to do that disappears.Feb 23 14:18
MinceRplease rephrase that in english.Feb 23 14:18
twitterYou are repeating repeating yourself ohmmanFeb 23 14:18
oiaohmThe full time developers can put there full time into checking and making sure quick releases can work.Feb 23 14:19
oiaohmPart time has its issues when it comes to fast release cycles.Feb 23 14:19
MinceRwhy are fast release cycles important?Feb 23 14:19
oiaohmJust the way it is.Feb 23 14:19
MinceRdo we really absolutely have to do the "if it compiles, ship it" approach?Feb 23 14:20
twitterI don't even believe that's the way it is oiaohm.Feb 23 14:20
twittersoftware that people want will be written the same way it always has.Feb 23 14:20
schestowitzBetter slow development than none at allFeb 23 14:21
oiaohmFeature intergration .  Longer the release cycles slower new features can enter.Feb 23 14:21
schestowitzProprietary s/w companies are led to losing/sacking key programmers. What then?Feb 23 14:21
twitteroiaohm thinks that corporate involvement is more important than it is.Feb 23 14:21
MinceRsoftware isn't all about the new shiny crap nobody uses.Feb 23 14:21
schestowitzPity those whose data is stuck in those legacy apps and can't afford to hire a coder to escape the programFeb 23 14:21
twitterhe seems to have swallowed a whole bunch of software owner koolaidFeb 23 14:22
oiaohmI am not saying open source cannot operate without it twitter.Feb 23 14:22
schestowitzYou could have many companies running code from the 'middle ages' through the depression.Feb 23 14:22
schestowitzWindows 2000...Feb 23 14:22
schestowitzBecause they can't afford new Vista PCs (nor do they want to)Feb 23 14:22
twitteryou are saying that free software works better with corporate involvement.  I'm not at all sure that's the case.Feb 23 14:22
oiaohmWine project.Feb 23 14:22
schestowitzThe natural thing for them to do is upgrade to PCLinuxOS or something... on the same boxesFeb 23 14:23
oiaohmBefore corporate involvement release cycles were long.Feb 23 14:23
oiaohmSimple fact project lead could not put full time into it.Feb 23 14:23
oiaohmHad to do other work to pay bills.Feb 23 14:23
schestowitzKDE gets little fundingFeb 23 14:23
schestowitzMost are volunteersFeb 23 14:23
MinceRtwitter: remember he's our sun fanboy. :>Feb 23 14:24
oiaohmCore people are still funded.Feb 23 14:24
schestowitzWordPress has a business model tooFeb 23 14:24
schestowitzFirefox..Feb 23 14:24
oiaohmIts not large numbers of the open source coders need funding.Feb 23 14:24
schestowitzMinceR: Sun.. well, if anyone's at trouble, it's themFeb 23 14:24
oiaohmThere are just key stone people.  Who make sure project run organised.Feb 23 14:25
schestowitzLinux is funded by many companiesFeb 23 14:25
MinceRit's trouble they've sought for themselves.Feb 23 14:25
schestowitzSolaris has just paying programmers working on it and Sun is not in a good positiionFeb 23 14:25
schestowitzHad Sun been bought/gone under, nobody would bother with their code much..Feb 23 14:25
twitteroiaohm, you think what you like.  free software works in any economy, except a post nuclear zero people left one.Feb 23 14:25
schestowitzThere's already Linus...Feb 23 14:25
schestowitz*LinuxFeb 23 14:25
twittergotta go for a while.Feb 23 14:26
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oiaohmFree software will work in any economy but its means to change quickly can be effected.Feb 23 14:26
oiaohmDevelopment speed slow not die.Feb 23 14:26
oiaohmOf course we don't want its development speed slowing.Feb 23 14:27
oiaohmIf MS is slowing it gives Linux a chance to get ahead as long as its not effected.Feb 23 14:27
oiaohmIdea that open source is 100 percent isolated from being effected is wrong.Feb 23 14:28
MinceRmaybe it will slow after proprietary sw has already died out.Feb 23 14:29
MinceRat least when the last human dies.Feb 23 14:29
MinceR:>Feb 23 14:29
oiaohmProprietary has the highest risk.Feb 23 14:29
oiaohmReason there costs are not spreed.Feb 23 14:29
schestowitzDevelopment likewiseFeb 23 14:29
schestowitzNetscape Navigator...Feb 23 14:30
MinceRthat's not the only reason.Feb 23 14:30
oiaohmIt is really.Feb 23 14:30
MinceRrepeated assertion isn't going to prove anything.Feb 23 14:30
oiaohmOpen source there are a lot of system admins and the like that do put in code.Feb 23 14:30
oiaohmSo cost of developers is spreed using what would have been in some cases wasted time.Feb 23 14:31
MinceRthe low likelyhood of being able to resurrect a dead project (via forking, for example) increases risk.Feb 23 14:31
oiaohmEvery line of code created costs something.Feb 23 14:31
MinceRlock-in increases risk.Feb 23 14:31
oiaohmReally the example to cover current events is sep 11 when the twin towers came down.Feb 23 14:33
oiaohmLot of companies there were able to restruct and keep going using open source software.Feb 23 14:34
oiaohmOnes who did not died.Feb 23 14:34
oiaohmWhile it was really bad focus was not on development but just making things work and bring in profit.Feb 23 14:34
oiaohmSame thing risks happening now if we end up too deep.Feb 23 14:35
MinceRanother factor that increases risk is that there's only one place you can go for support.Feb 23 14:35
oiaohmNote compainys from world trade who tried staying completely closed source no longer exist.Feb 23 14:36
oiaohmWe have seen what can happen on the small scale in that event.Feb 23 14:36
oiaohmOpen source is strong there is also issues with projects losing leads.   Losing key lead developers can end a open source project due to infighting.Feb 23 14:38
oiaohmThere are risks to open source from the current mess.Feb 23 14:38
oiaohmOk nothing large enough to kill it out right.   Still enough to cause trouble.Feb 23 14:39
oiaohmOnly way to kill Open Source majorly would be if laws globally where passed that made it illegal.Feb 23 14:40
oiaohmI am talking about harm not death.Feb 23 14:42
oiaohmThere is a major difference.Feb 23 14:42
MinceRi'm sure microsoft, apple and their flunkies are trying to come up with a way to make it illegal everywhere even as we speak.Feb 23 14:47
MinceRhopefully the rest of the world is powerful enough to hold them backFeb 23 14:47
oiaohmApple limitedFeb 23 14:48
oiaohmThey heavly depend on a lot of open source stacks.Feb 23 14:48
oiaohmMost apple will want to do is slow open source not kill it.Feb 23 14:49
oiaohmIe patents.Feb 23 14:49
MinceRthey believe they've stolen enough stuff already, judging by their efforts to kill itFeb 23 14:50
MinceRsw patents would kill it.Feb 23 14:50
oiaohmThey learnt expensive leasons.Feb 23 14:50
oiaohmLot of what they stole caused them more problems.Feb 23 14:51
MinceRhave they?Feb 23 14:51
oiaohmThan if they intergrated with the open source stack.Feb 23 14:51
MinceRhave they realized that? will they ever care?Feb 23 14:51
oiaohmCups was nasty.Feb 23 14:52
MinceRwill they ever be willing to work with anyone while all they can think about is whether their god, steve jobs would approve of whatever they're doing at the time?Feb 23 14:52
oiaohmDrivers developed for Linux Freebsd and others did not work.Feb 23 14:52
oiaohmOn apple due to there alterations.Feb 23 14:52
MinceRi think their corporate culture (if it can be called "culture" -- well, maybe in the sense of a culture of bacteria) disallows them from effectively cooperating with anyone outside the company.Feb 23 14:53
oiaohmkhtml nicking cost them in fixing bugs.  Since there alterations stopped most of the third party bug fixes from working.Feb 23 14:53
oiaohmIt don't turn out as good as it first seams to fork away.Feb 23 14:54
MinceRwell, that's kind of obvious to anyone but apple.Feb 23 14:54
oiaohmBasically apple has had to learn the leasons the hard way.Feb 23 14:54
MinceRor perhaps they really thought it's worth the trouble anyway.Feb 23 14:54
MinceRperhaps they're willing to do 3x the work if it means they get to keep their vision of serving only the stupidest user.Feb 23 14:55
MinceRand ignoring technical matters in all decisions.Feb 23 14:55
oiaohmReally apple does not have the resources to do 3x the work.Feb 23 14:55
MinceRthen hopefully they'll dieFeb 23 14:56
oiaohmThey have enough resource sucking maintaining there graphical interface.Feb 23 14:56
MinceRand hopefully they'll drag their cult with them.Feb 23 14:56
oiaohmNow does software patents stop open source.   From apples point of view no.   Apple will sell anyone licences to use there patents.Feb 23 14:57
oiaohmSoftware patents do expire in time or get disproved by prior art.Feb 23 14:57
oiaohmSoftware patents is a slowing effect not a killing one.Feb 23 14:58
MinceRit merely keeps new and small players off the marketFeb 23 14:58
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MinceRwhich reduces the amount of developers available drastically.Feb 23 14:58
schestowitzSpeaking of Apple, they too had financial misconduct notedFeb 23 14:58
MinceRand only the big bastards are left, who may or may not want to use it.Feb 23 14:59
Balrog 23 14:59
schestowitzI think they do better than Microsoft because they sell hardware, but that's about itFeb 23 14:59
Balrogyou might have seen that thoughFeb 23 14:59
schestowitzApple is virtually non existent in most of the world, just the rich parts of itFeb 23 14:59
Balrogwell Apple is much more committed to open standards than MS. Not as much as we'd like, but still somewhat betterFeb 23 14:59
oiaohmipods and other i devices schestowitz kinda hold apple up.Feb 23 14:59
MinceRapple is committed to open standards? since when?Feb 23 15:00
MinceRthey're definitely not committed to ODF, for exampleFeb 23 15:00
Balrogthat's what I meant by 'not as much as we'd like'Feb 23 15:00
Balrogweb standards is one exampleFeb 23 15:00
Balrogby not including flash on the iphone, and making their browser standards-compliant, web developers must write web pages properlyFeb 23 15:01
Balrogif iphone users are to benefitFeb 23 15:01
schestowitzBalrog: Apple is also very pro-lock-inFeb 23 15:01
schestowitzSome say worse than WindowsFeb 23 15:01
oiaohmLock in is apples nature.Feb 23 15:01
MinceRomitting flash might be because you need a monster of a machine to run it properly.Feb 23 15:02
BalrogI'm not denying that thoughFeb 23 15:02
oiaohmSo far no one been able to prove that is not profitable to them.Feb 23 15:02
schestowitzAs for standard, well.. they use some FOSS stacks, so through reuse they enable some portability in placesFeb 23 15:02
Balrogand remember them pushing PDF (now an open standard) when MS was pushing XPS?Feb 23 15:02
oiaohmApple is far less likely to expand a standard in a undocumented way.Feb 23 15:02
oiaohmApple is not prefect.Feb 23 15:03
Balrogyes, or create a new widely used standardFeb 23 15:03
Balrogdefinitely not perfect ....Feb 23 15:03
oiaohmApple was also one of the first to publish there network protocals with no strings attached.Feb 23 15:03
Balrog(I don't think even Sun is totally 'perfect' in that regard. True, they're better than Apple though.)Feb 23 15:03
oiaohmApple has some good and some bad.Feb 23 15:04
BalrogWindows is not only pro lock-in but also a monopoly. So you have no choice with it. And API's change all the time.Feb 23 15:04
oiaohmVendor lock in side is about Apple worse bit.Feb 23 15:04
Balrogoiaohm: I agree.Feb 23 15:04
Balrogwell yeah; they just dropped that problem with itunes thoughFeb 23 15:04
Balrog(with drm free)Feb 23 15:04
oiaohmTry finding good that MS was not forced to do.Feb 23 15:05
MinceRthey still sell drm-ed movies in itunes, don't they?Feb 23 15:05
schestowitzBalrog: slashdot puts old news up?Feb 23 15:05
schestowitz2008 in 2009Feb 23 15:05
MinceRand non-itunes apps are still locked out of the newest ipods, aren't they?Feb 23 15:05
Balrogyeah, but would the media companies allow anything different?Feb 23 15:05
oiaohmRemember apple released there network protocals when they were the most dominate in the network without force being required.Feb 23 15:05
schestowitz"Posted by  at June 24, 2008 "Feb 23 15:05
MinceRthere are media companies that wouldFeb 23 15:05
Balrogheh.Feb 23 15:05
oiaohmMedia companies are also pro lockin.Feb 23 15:06
MinceRthe rest can look at their lost revenue and make up their minds.Feb 23 15:06
Balrogwell probably down the road they will drop DRM on those moviesFeb 23 15:06
BalrogI know. But people care for movies.Feb 23 15:06
MinceRalso, remember that jobs owns a big chunk of disneyFeb 23 15:06
MinceRif he were nearly as anti-drm as he keeps saying he is, something must have changed already.Feb 23 15:06
MinceRnothing happened.Feb 23 15:06
BalrogI know ... but we'll seeFeb 23 15:06
oiaohmdisney funny enough also support open source.Feb 23 15:06
MinceRin the apple way?Feb 23 15:07
Balrogwell music (100% of it) is drm-free. That isn't a change?Feb 23 15:07
Balrog(on the itunes store)Feb 23 15:07
Balrogdropping DRM from apps ..... well the small independent developers are already up in armsFeb 23 15:07
Balrog(about crackulous and all) ... it's very easy to crack and distribute apps.Feb 23 15:08
MinceRit isn't a change regarding disney and movies, which i was talking about.Feb 23 15:08
oiaohmDisney maintains some open source animation software packages.Feb 23 15:08
oiaohmYes a lot like apple.Feb 23 15:08
MinceRdropping drm from music could have well been a result of other stores dropping it or not introducing it a long time ago.Feb 23 15:08
oiaohmBack Digatal rights management on one hand and then on the other help development of tools.Feb 23 15:08
schestowitzoiaohm: Disnet doesn't support open sourceFeb 23 15:08
MinceRalso, osx still has drm built into the executable format.Feb 23 15:09
schestowitzIt uses some Linux for their non-Free software (merely a platform)Feb 23 15:09
Balrogyou mean the encryption? That's been reversed and is soo weakFeb 23 15:09
Balrog(app encryption)Feb 23 15:09
MinceRyet it's thereFeb 23 15:09
MinceRyou can see the intention.Feb 23 15:09
schestowitzBalrog: not 100% DRM-freeFeb 23 15:09
schestowitzApple charges to have it removed (30 centsFeb 23 15:09
MinceRalso, you can see their intention behind screwing with dtrace (or what's it called)Feb 23 15:09
Balrogyou didn't hear of tiered pricing?Feb 23 15:09
Balrog(70c, $1, $1.30 , all DRM free)Feb 23 15:10
MinceRschestowitz: so people can still buy drm-ed music from itunes, for less?Feb 23 15:10
Balrognope.Feb 23 15:11
schestowitzBalrog: They must have changed itFeb 23 15:11
Balrogyou do have to pay if you already have drm'ed musicFeb 23 15:11
schestowitzI think about JanuaryFeb 23 15:11
Balrogbut if not, it's all DRM-freeFeb 23 15:11
Balrogyeah that's when they did itFeb 23 15:11
schestowitzDefective by Design campaign protested as well.Feb 23 15:11
Balrogthe announcement was at MacworldFeb 23 15:11
schestowitzMac World... haha.Feb 23 15:11
Balrogyeah the last one :pFeb 23 15:12
schestowitzKaput after issues, including the poisoning by MS employees (see the antitrust memo on schmoozing and crashing Apple events)Feb 23 15:12
BalrogI saw thatFeb 23 15:12
schestowitzMac 'world' Feb 23 15:12
schestowitzIf the world is US, CA, Japan, AU, and EUFeb 23 15:12
BalrogI hear the economy has to do with that, as well as the poor timing of it (right after the holidays)Feb 23 15:13
schestowitzThe 'world' doesn't knoe about AppleFeb 23 15:13
Balrogthey used to have Macworld FranceFeb 23 15:13
schestowitzThat is, 80% of the world's population doesn't have their productsFeb 23 15:13
schestowitzAsk people in China or Brazil about AppleFeb 23 15:13
schestowitzCan you imagine Apple fanbois in Bangalore?Feb 23 15:13
BalrogI know .... there are some everywhereFeb 23 15:15
schestowitzLook at the Microsoft Friedshill Spreading PR/propaganda in Zeedeenet: 23 15:15
schestowitzIt's like those cigarette companies... free cigarettes... love us, pay us, adore us...Feb 23 15:16
MinceRi thought the "world" was USA.Feb 23 15:16
schestowitzMinceR: depends where you askFeb 23 15:16
oiaohm  << disney open source.  Ie they developed that engine at first then released it to everyone.Feb 23 15:16
MinceRin the USA, of coureFeb 23 15:16
MinceRs/ure/urse/Feb 23 15:16
schestowitzThe worldFeb 23 15:16
schestowitzCyclic thingFeb 23 15:16
oiaohmAnd its not the first or the last time they will most likely do something like that.Feb 23 15:16
Balrogoh ... about dtrace, and even gdb blocking, that's easy to circumventFeb 23 15:16
MinceRyou mean there's something outside the USA? :>Feb 23 15:16
MinceRBalrog: of course it's easyFeb 23 15:16
MinceRBalrog: so it doesn't only show their malevolence, it also shows their contemptFeb 23 15:17
schestowitzMinceR: yes, the nation called AfricaFeb 23 15:17
schestowitzAlthough Palin claims she did not say thatFeb 23 15:17
MinceR"we don't want you to look inside our products and you're so stupid you won't find these checks we've built in"Feb 23 15:17
schestowitzThere was apparently just an exaggeration suggesting she though Africa was a nationFeb 23 15:17
Balrogalso it probably has to do with licensing .... maybe somewhere in their agreement with the media companies they are forbidden to do thatFeb 23 15:17
MinceRmaybe the "programmers" who "work" for crApple really wouldn'tFeb 23 15:17
Balrogalso DVD player tracing is blocked. And I know that the agreements to get DVD-playback support 'legally' require you to block debuggingFeb 23 15:18
MinceRi'm sure these agreements are one-sided, take it or leave itFeb 23 15:18
MinceRnegotiation is impossibleFeb 23 15:18
Balrogthey are. The DVD agreements are probably the most well knownFeb 23 15:18
MinceRthey could have just used decssFeb 23 15:19
Balrogthey could, but it's legally in a grey area (in the US)Feb 23 15:19
schestowitzWikileaks is downFeb 23 15:19
schestowitzMAJOR exposure: 23 15:19
schestowitzPolitical cooruption.Feb 23 15:19
Balrogwikileaks is upFeb 23 15:20
MinceRit's not like they're blinding white legally otherwiseFeb 23 15:20
schestowitz 23 15:20
Balrogworks here.Feb 23 15:20
schestowitzGet all the content properly?Feb 23 15:20
schestowitz"Error: 503 Service Unavailable "Feb 23 15:20
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Balrogno error 503 hereFeb 23 15:21
schestowitzIt asks for donationFeb 23 15:21
Balrogit does, and below is the contentFeb 23 15:22
schestowitzOh, it works nowFeb 23 15:22
schestowitzNo idea why it did that..Feb 23 15:23
Balrogschestowitz: have you written about the DVD 'licensing' system?Feb 23 15:24
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BalrogI'll be back in an hourFeb 23 15:26
schestowitzUK Government plans to criminalise Japanese Anime/Manga fans < >Feb 23 15:26
schestowitzBalrog: which system?Feb 23 15:27
Balrogthe whole licensing system for DVD and BD: the agreements that vendors have to sign to include these technologies in productsFeb 23 15:28
Balrog(S. Jobs called the Blu-ray licensing system "a bag of hurt")Feb 23 15:29
Balrogbut I'll be backFeb 23 15:29
schestowitzNew Climate Law Institute to launch multipronged legal attack on causes of climate change < >Feb 23 15:31
schestowitzWe've just made the front page of Linux Today again.Feb 23 15:32
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schestowitzIt seems as though BN has done close to 2GB in the past 12 hours, which is good.Feb 23 16:32
schestowitzThe Comes exhibits prove popular because they expose dark secrets that cannot be found somewhere else. We should do more of these really.Feb 23 16:32
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Balrogtrue.Feb 23 17:16
schestowitzSomeone thinks I should disable comments in BN nowFeb 23 17:19
schestowitzHe's venting about trolls being allowedFeb 23 17:19
Balrognot a good idea.Feb 23 17:22
Balrogremoves transparencyFeb 23 17:22
schestowitzWhat about IRC?Feb 23 17:22
Balrog*****Feb 23 17:22
schestowitz??Feb 23 17:22
BalrogarghFeb 23 17:22
Balrog:(Feb 23 17:22
Balrognot gooFeb 23 17:22
BalroggoodFeb 23 17:22
Balrogcan you delete that from the log?Feb 23 17:22
schestowitzSureFeb 23 17:23
Balrogfine. Somehow it got through :(Feb 23 17:23
schestowitzStrong password :-)Feb 23 17:23
schestowitzNot "tinkerbell"Feb 23 17:23
Balrogyeah but it's not the one I use online anyway :)Feb 23 17:23
schestowitzBN didn't get much trolling recently.Feb 23 17:24
schestowitzBut one person who occasionally comments is pissed off. I mean, some commenters are attacked again..Feb 23 17:24
schestowitzBack to 'eet' days when he would scare readers.Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz"Do you not have any common sense. All you've done is enable some troll to inject garbage like this into the record. Do you not realize you have to deny the astroturfers every opportunity to do their job. Why the f**k have an IRC channel at all if you are going to engage with them."Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz"All you've done is reduce BN to the level of [...]  realize you don't ever engage with someone who calls you a freetard, the clue is in the words 'Alzheimers', 'freetard'."Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz"Your first mistake was responding to the first anonymous comment. By responding you let 'Dan O'Brian' jump in to piss all over BN, and call *you* freetard. Have you learned nothing from being trolled on COLA. In case you haven't realized it, BN is going [...], a platform for the astroturfers to beat up on anything non MICROS~1."Feb 23 17:24
schestowitz"Anyone who posts there gets runs into the danger of being contaminated with their crap. Which is why I dropped out. [...] If you want to continue shit slinging with these, then that's your business. This kind of 'dialog' contribute *nothing* to the cause. When are you going to get some sense and stop enabling the trolls."Feb 23 17:24
schestowitzMaybe we can close comments on particular types of posts that attract the Novell boostersFeb 23 17:25
schestowitzThey can speak out in IRCFeb 23 17:25
MinceRyou could start banning trollsFeb 23 17:25
schestowitzMinceR: I'd rather notFeb 23 17:25
MinceRor even just autohide their messages, with a link to expandFeb 23 17:25
schestowitzNo censorshipFeb 23 17:25
schestowitzDisabling comments is no censorship if there's still IRCFeb 23 17:26
MinceRthe latter is no censorship, yet it makes it easier to skip the crapFeb 23 17:26
Balrogutypi could do that ... like slashdot doesFeb 23 17:26
MinceRindeedFeb 23 17:26
Balrogyou*Feb 23 17:26
schestowitzThey could game moddingFeb 23 17:26
schestowitzOr whine if it's done by writer who suppresses dissentFeb 23 17:27
schestowitzI know which items are damaging to NovellFeb 23 17:27
schestowitzLike this last oneFeb 23 17:27
MinceRif the content can be shown, it isn't really suppression :>Feb 23 17:27
Balrogshow a snippet of the contentFeb 23 17:27
schestowitzI knew when I posted it (I could feel it), that they won't sit quielly and soon enough came 'anonymous' indeedFeb 23 17:27
BalroghehFeb 23 17:32
BalrogI know some people with that attitude.Feb 23 17:32
schestowitzThat 'anonymous' is morphing..Feb 23 17:36
schestowitzI can see the host nameFeb 23 17:36
BalrogI know.Feb 23 17:36
schestowitzIt's not someone newFeb 23 17:36
Balroga known troll?Feb 23 17:36
schestowitzI don't want to end comments because of this as that would mean they get their way (ruining the site).Feb 23 17:37
Balrogending comments would not be good for transparencyFeb 23 17:37
BalrogI know of several sites that don't have comments; few people read themFeb 23 17:37
MinceRa snippet like "DURRRRRR HURRRRRRRR [Read more...]" ;)Feb 23 17:41
BalroghehFeb 23 17:53
Balrogschestowitz: do IP's go into the public IRC logs?Feb 23 17:56
BalrogI'd assume notFeb 23 17:56
MinceRit seems that the hostname is recorded as shown in the join messageFeb 23 18:00
MinceRluckily, mine is rarely shownFeb 23 18:00
Balrogheh.Feb 23 18:02
BalrogI'm on a university network thoughFeb 23 18:02
Balrogit would be nice if that part could be anonymizedFeb 23 18:03
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jose 23 18:09
joseI posted a comment there about how Novell might have fired opensuse devs in order to focus on more ms-centric distros.Feb 23 18:10
joseperhaps opensuse is seeded enoughFeb 23 18:10
josetime to put the dollars to better useFeb 23 18:10
BalroghehFeb 23 18:11
Balrogthere's something about opensuse that attracts people to itFeb 23 18:11
schestowitzjose: I hear the layoffs will hit GermanyFeb 23 18:12
schestowitzI.e. suse, for all I can tellFeb 23 18:12
schestowitzYikes! "One of the biggest changes to this release of Coyote Linux is the use of C# as the primary development language used for most of the administration, configuration, and maintenance utilities."Feb 23 18:14
schestowitz 23 18:14
BalrogewwFeb 23 18:14
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BalrogI won't be using it :(Feb 23 18:15
schestowitz 23 18:15
MinceRi'm glad i stopped using it long agoFeb 23 18:15
schestowitz 23 18:15
schestowitzIs this related?Feb 23 18:16
MinceRho do they propose to fit it on one floppy now?Feb 23 18:16
schestowitzThat's the guy: 23 18:16
schestowitz"I am currently working to get a test cluster online using Windows 2008 Datacenter x64 with SQL2005 Enterprise x64. Although the 2008 cluster is up and reports that it is running fine and shared storage is attached and online, SQL setup does not give me the option to create a failover cluster (the checkbox is greyed out)."Feb 23 18:17
schestowitzSeems like a bit of a MSFTerFeb 23 18:17
schestowitzIt's definitely him: "Joshua Jackson; Vortech Consulting"Feb 23 18:17
schestowitzSo he loves Microsoft technologies in general, this he wants a c#-centric LinuxFeb 23 18:18
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Balrogalso it's tied to MSVCFeb 23 18:19
Balrogwhich is definitely not FOSSFeb 23 18:19
balzacI've come up with a couple of bits of new language to use for proprietary software licensesFeb 23 18:21
balzacI call them archaic, paranoia-inducing, bad-vibe licensesFeb 23 18:21
Balrogwell most of themFeb 23 18:22
balzacRMS calls them "dirty licenses" in his free software songFeb 23 18:22
BalrogI've seen some proprietary licenses that are quite cleanFeb 23 18:22
Balroglike the one for the Crayon Physics Deluxe gameFeb 23 18:22
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Balrogbut those are in the minorityFeb 23 18:23
balzacwell, if the license is ready to invoke the force of federal law against an individual recipient of the licensed software, that's a bad startFeb 23 18:23
Balrogwell it basically says "don't copy and redistribute" in addition to the usual warranty disclaimerFeb 23 18:24
schestowitzHmmmmm.....Feb 23 18:24
schestowitzI guess there's a cost in bringing over Wndows developers over.Feb 23 18:24
schestowitzThey try to turn this /cheap/ Linux thing into another thing they already knowFeb 23 18:25
schestowitzUsing c# and all..Feb 23 18:25
Balrogwell that shouldn't be necessaryFeb 23 18:25
Balrogc# is quite newFeb 23 18:25
BalrogI'll be back laterFeb 23 18:25
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balzac 23 18:47
balzac 23 18:47
balzacthe original link to the pic got past its bandwidth limitFeb 23 18:48
schestowitz:-)Feb 23 18:49
schestowitzWhen was bailout renamed stimulus to make it sound positive?Feb 23 18:49
balzacwell, it depends on how it's distributedFeb 23 18:55
balzacthe bailout was for bank executives to buy new yachtsFeb 23 18:55
balzacmaybe the "stimulus" will include a check to meFeb 23 18:55
balzacObama has said that CEO pay must be capped for bailed-out banks, so now they wan't to return the money so they can get more than half a million a year as CEO.Feb 23 18:56
schestowitzStart your copiers... print more cashFeb 23 18:56
balzacTurns out they didn't need the money quite so badly as they thought.Feb 23 18:56
schestowitzNeed is a subjective word. Larry Ellison needs a huge yachtFeb 23 18:57
balzacBut what's bothering me is not so much the economic issues, but whether or not Obama will close the secret prisons.Feb 23 18:57
balzacOr whether or not Bush will go on trial.Feb 23 18:57
balzacabsolutelyFeb 23 18:58
balzacI want Bush to be waterboarded until he confesses to hating America with a fiery passionFeb 23 18:58
balzacand spills the digits of all his secret bank accountsFeb 23 18:58
balzacwaterboard that m*****f****rFeb 23 18:59
balzacDon't stop until he gets enough!Feb 23 18:59
balzacwe have yet to see the trend with Obama, whether he's going to aid and abet the plundering of the working class by the elite, or whether we're going to see some recovery of what has been stolen.Feb 23 19:05
schestowitz "Buzzphrase of the Week: "Red Hat Announces Broad ISV Ecosystem is Virtualization-Ready" Wot, not clouds?"Feb 23 19:05
schestowitzYou talk about Obama as though he's specialFeb 23 19:06
schestowitzThese people have always been shaped, wrapped and sold by PR firmsFeb 23 19:06
schestowitzAfter careful selectionFeb 23 19:06
balzacwe'll see what happens.Feb 23 19:06
schestowitzAnd the Bush regime added remarks like "by Jesus"Feb 23 19:06
schestowitzBush himself thinks of himself as a saintFeb 23 19:06
schestowitzBut they are all contrrolled by other peopleFeb 23 19:06
schestowitzElse they go the way of Paul or NaderFeb 23 19:07
schestowitzNot media darling <=> funding <==> obedienceFeb 23 19:07
balzacRoy, what about Kucinich?Feb 23 19:07
balzacyou mention Ron Paul and Ralph Nader, but Kucinich is the man.Feb 23 19:07
schestowitzUS shift spurs on global mercury pollution deal   < >Feb 23 19:08
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toroshiFeb 23 19:09
schestowitzbalzac: I doubt anyone -- Kucinich -- can rise to power without endorsement from rogue interestsFeb 23 19:09
balzacwell, that's one perspectiveFeb 23 19:10
schestowitzWhen a state become a rogue state, then it preserves its ill state until /PEOPLE/ (who are sadly brainwashed) weigh in.Feb 23 19:10
schestowitzHey, toros Feb 23 19:10
amd-linuxtoo sad most of you dont speak German - there is a beautiful article in the Financial Times Germany that tears MS apart and stomps on the fragments - Roy couldnt have written it sharper :-)Feb 23 19:10
amd-linux 23 19:10
amd-linuxIt is called "How MS saves the world"Feb 23 19:11
torosamd-linux: danke... ;)Feb 23 19:11
amd-linuxTotally bashing Vista, Vista 7 and MWS attitude in general - I m too lazy to translate it completelyFeb 23 19:12
amd-linuxBitte :-)Feb 23 19:12
amd-linuxNow FT is not really know for being biased against a giant like MS, so if quiet analysts start ranting....Feb 23 19:13
schestowitzSounds provoking.Feb 23 19:14
schestowitzSee 23 19:14
schestowitzamd-linux: Times is kind of OKFeb 23 19:14
schestowitzThey have in the Financial Times some guy called Richard Waters, IIRC, who is pro-MicrosoftFeb 23 19:15
schestowitzLet me see what I can digFeb 23 19:15
schestowitzYeah... 23 19:16
amd-linuxyeah, the guy who wrote this is probably new to the FT :-) and will receive a call from the editor after the editor received a call from Unterschleissheim (MS HO Germany)Feb 23 19:16
schestowitzHe usually pops up in Microsoft talking point pieces and anti-Linux tooFeb 23 19:16
torosamd-linux: thanks, it is funny (and true)... :)Feb 23 19:16
schestowitztoros: worry not, the 'press' is dying anywayFeb 23 19:16
schestowitzTimes too was firing people massively (more than other sectors I imagine)Feb 23 19:17
amd-linuxwell, but I still like to read a physical newspaper... I am from the "old" generation", I need some paperFeb 23 19:17
amd-linuxI like the Kindle but still, a book is a bookFeb 23 19:17
schestowitzIt's down to smaller voices, I reckon. I have good fun exposing bloggers who take Microsoft money to do their deeds.Feb 23 19:17
schestowitzDon't you want to keep the paper?Feb 23 19:18
schestowitzHow about bits of it?Feb 23 19:18
amd-linux:-)Feb 23 19:18
schestowitzIf I love something I read, I find comfirt in the fact that I can bookmark or search for it later, maybe even copy a fragment.Feb 23 19:18
schestowitz*confirtFeb 23 19:18
schestowitz*comfort (right the third time)Feb 23 19:18
amd-linuxBTW in one article you wrote "Groklow" ionstead of Groklaw - my English is not good enough but was this nintentional and what does it meanFeb 23 19:19
schestowitzI've been paperless since around 2002. Whatever paper I had left that's necessary I just scanned.Feb 23 19:19
torosI prefer printing longer articles and read them while bathingFeb 23 19:19
amd-linuxwell in my profession, I love papaer :-)Feb 23 19:19
schestowitzI have no printer, so it only goes one way: physical -> digitalFeb 23 19:19
torosI need a waterproof e-book ;)Feb 23 19:19
torosI mean e-book readerFeb 23 19:19
schestowitzYou can't organise paper in 'sub-trees'.. nor search or share them digitally.Feb 23 19:19
amd-linuxand I need paper - for annotations, comments etcFeb 23 19:20
schestowitztoros: for sauna or such stuff?Feb 23 19:20
schestowitzI used to think about it when I used my Palm by the poolside...but it's stupid.Feb 23 19:20
amd-linuxhaha Kindle in the sauna :-)Feb 23 19:20
schestowitzSounds bad..Feb 23 19:20
amd-linuxI am not sure if it will work in a 70 degree environment :-)Feb 23 19:21
schestowitzI think it wouldFeb 23 19:21
torosschestowitz: for reading in the bathtubeFeb 23 19:21
schestowitzJust not comfortable to hold if you leave it off hand for a whileFeb 23 19:21
amd-linuxmaybe, but when the sweat runs over it.....Feb 23 19:21
schestowitzSame with some chains or necklaces really, especially in dryFeb 23 19:22
amd-linuxBTW, anything new about the ballmer-dropping-hardware-in-catalonia story?Feb 23 19:22
MinceRhttp://static.thepiratebay.o...Feb 23 19:22
schestowitzsubmit bug report to Jeff BozoFeb 23 19:22
schestowitzMaybe they'll do a KindurableFeb 23 19:22
schestowitzWithout DRM..Feb 23 19:23
MinceRf'Kindurable? :>Feb 23 19:23
schestowitzamd-linux: only the Germans covered it in English.Feb 23 19:23
schestowitzMinceR: I saw that earlier.. Simon Phipps' blogFeb 23 19:23
schestowitzf'Kindurable won't last a minute in the sauna.. f'KindurablFeb 23 19:24
schestowitz 23 19:24
amd-linuxvery good cartoon, sums up the whole problem of an industry that is unable to realize that the old plan is not working any moreFeb 23 19:27
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schestowitzWhat's up with Groklaw...? Too quiet... it's a waste of potential right there, she should hand over some edit privs to the participants.Feb 23 19:35
schestowitz "I predicted open source software would go mainstream in 2009."Feb 23 19:43
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schestowitzMore ODF support (new): 23 19:59
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schestowitz Nvidia cuts out reviewers for the GTS250  < >Feb 23 20:04
schestowitzVodafone Said to Plan Hundreds of Job Cuts at U.K. Division  < >Feb 23 20:09
schestowitzMadoff Victims Face Grim Prospects in Court: Jane Bryant Quinn  < >Feb 23 20:11
schestowitzMicrosoft wields axe then twists knife < > Feb 23 20:14
schestowitzGoogle still snubs AGPL(v3). I'm surprised almost no-one reports about this anymore.Feb 23 20:19
amarsh04I'm waiting to see if HP succeeds in dropping employee wages in .auFeb 23 20:25
amarsh04they changed security companies, advertised above award wages, then offered reduced wagesFeb 23 20:26
schestowitzThey did this in the UK (wage drops)Feb 23 20:28
schestowitzThey also sacked many people in EDS here (they acquired the company)Feb 23 20:29
amarsh04quoting the letter in front of me: "we regret to inform you that we do not currently have a position available for you as a Security Officer at the EDS Lockleys site."Feb 23 20:30
amarsh04the site is 20000 square metres of office spaceFeb 23 20:31
schestowitzThere was backlash. Let me find something...Feb 23 20:33
amarsh04thanksFeb 23 20:33
schestowitzI've found the article I read at the time: HP's EDS acquisition to kill 24,600 jobs < >Feb 23 20:34
schestowitz"With Mark Hurd "the butcher" leading consolidation efforts at HP, employees could all but brace themselves for some substantial job culling."Feb 23 20:34
amarsh04the 2008 EDS .au Christmas parties were also cancelledFeb 23 20:36
amarsh04the other interesting thing is that EDS aren't the sole tennants where I workFeb 23 20:51
amarsh04the other tennant may object to changes that HP/EDS want to bring aboutFeb 23 20:51
schestowitzOh, I see....Feb 23 20:52
schestowitzIf it makes you feel any better, the UK is in debt of $3 trillion according to one yardstick....and now this Hollywoodian spin on it:  Brown launches 'recovery' website < >Feb 23 20:53
amarsh04the new security company will not have sufficient experienced staff to look after the site eitherFeb 23 20:54
schestowitz"Six out of every 10 employees stole company data when they left their job last year, said a study of US workers." 23 20:54
amarsh04last IT jobs I had, I had root access to main machines until I finished... I left everything in the best possible shape and without stealing dataFeb 23 20:57
schestowitzIn one of my jobs I had the power to disconnect the whole universityFeb 23 20:58
schestowitzIt's a lot to do with trust.Feb 23 20:59
amarsh04yes, they probably had a  well-founded trust after I added back-up scripts to make it easier to restore recent versions of known good configurationsFeb 23 21:00
amarsh04I maintained dns/dhcp for for a whileFeb 23 21:00
schestowitzT: Security researcher Kaminsky pushes DNS patching < >Feb 23 21:11
schestowitz"Old SuSE is dead and gone, and not coming back. " 23 21:11
schestowitz"WHY they still keep de icaza and his cronies ? How EXACTLY do they fit into their business plan ? How much revenue have they and their products generated for novell ? They have been with novell for years now, so surely they MUST be productive, right ?"Feb 23 21:12
schestowitz"Novell is going the same way as sun which harbours many 'developers' who write 'la-la' s/w that never sees the light of day ( and shouldn't), earning great salaries at the expense of those that CAN contribute to their bottom line ( or top line)." 23 21:12
schestowitz"Return SUSE to those that made it, what it once was, FREE of Microsoft !. So hold on to it to push ASP .Net BS !, good luck Novell, as much luck as you have had so far. Set SuSE free, and Goodbye !." 23 21:13
amarsh04interesting reference on pretexting in .us: 23 21:32
trmancohaha,funny, look at thisFeb 23 21:39
trmanco"as a bonus, apparently some of the applications that would crashFeb 23 21:39
trmancoin Microsoft Windows, no longer crash in wine."Feb 23 21:39
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torosgood nightFeb 23 21:45
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PetoKraushmm i take it that the "de-class-lawsuit" thing of Vista Capable is not really Good Thingâ„¢Feb 23 21:50
trmancoschestowitz, this link doesn't work -> 23 21:51
schestowitzOld stuffFeb 23 21:54
schestowitzI have the original tooFeb 23 21:54
trmancoschestowitz, do you remember the formula?Feb 23 21:54
schestowitzSeveralFeb 23 21:54
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-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all, as you probably noticed our services took a short break there. They're back online now and we're investigating the cause of the crash. Thanks for using freenode and sorry for the inconvenience!Feb 23 22:00
schestowitzPetoKraus: doesn't matter muchFeb 23 22:00
*schestowitz hugs ChanServ ("where have you been !!")Feb 23 22:00
schestowitzWhat BearingPoint’s Chapter 11 filing means to you and me 23 22:23
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Balrog_hey everyoneFeb 23 22:34
schestowitz 23 22:35
schestowitzMinceR: "First Google had their "Google Desktop" that mostly went nowhere. Then came Chrome, the browser that threatened to "out cool" any other browser." 23 22:46
Balrog_heh...kde on fedora is greatFeb 23 22:47
Balrog_chrome is windows-onlyFeb 23 22:47
Balrog_so it leaves out ~15% of the userbaseFeb 23 22:47
MinceRandroid on a laptop is like windows ce on a laptopFeb 23 22:48
MinceRchrome was designed to be non-portableFeb 23 22:48
Balrog_as least Android is fossFeb 23 22:48
Balrog_and people are working on taking it apart and using some parts to improve linux on the desktopFeb 23 22:49
trmanco 23 22:49
MinceRi hope this google linux nightmare won't come trueFeb 23 22:49
Balrog_yeahFeb 23 22:50
Balrog_but I don't think Google can violate GPLFeb 23 22:50
MinceRsomehow i don't feel like having my apps migrate to a retarded gui and javaFeb 23 22:50
Balrog_with limitsFeb 23 22:50
Balrog_java has its problemsFeb 23 22:50
Balrog_:/Feb 23 22:50
MinceRand google's version of it adds its own problemsFeb 23 22:55
Balrog_tell me moreFeb 23 22:56
MinceRfor example, it has no JITFeb 23 22:59
MinceRso we can expect performance penalties, but no improvements.Feb 23 22:59
MinceRotherwise, i'm not quite sure, but i don't have much trust in this dalvik thing.Feb 23 22:59
schestowitzMac neglect, Linux first:" dmd has an X86 code generator. It currently targets Windows and Linux. But now that the Mac is on X86 machines, it opens the possibility for a straightforward implementation of dmd on the Mac. The only way to find out how feasible it is is to get a Mac and get to work on it. " 23 23:06
MinceRmac deserves to be neglectedFeb 23 23:14
Balrog_ehh I wouldn't say soFeb 23 23:14
Balrog_when it comes to compilers, stuff gets trickyFeb 23 23:14
Balrog_(with any platform)Feb 23 23:15
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Balrog_also they're working on an LLVM-backend D compilerFeb 23 23:26
schestowitzFor some reason, Tab Mix in Firefox stopped expanding to a new row when space runs out. It does not obey the option and I don't think I've changed anything.Feb 23 23:27
schestowitzStudy: Federal Gov't Can Save Billions in IT Spending < >Feb 23 23:28
MinceRhttp://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.n...Feb 23 23:36
schestowitzWTF? Another fools compares FOSS to communism: "The barrier between user and provider is eroded; a direct agreement between society members is maintained… Marx would have been a Firefox user. (188–89)" 23 23:39
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trmanco 23 23:43
oiaohmSupprisingly it takes ages to compress 10 GB of data.  So I have some time to kill.Feb 23 23:45
MinceRMarx is often misquoted.Feb 23 23:47
MinceRsome time to kill people!Feb 23 23:48
schestowitzMinceR: *LOL* good cartoonFeb 23 23:49
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Balrog_FOSS isn't communism, because you aren't forced to use itFeb 23 23:54
Balrog_(or what most people call communism)Feb 23 23:54
Balrog_and you aren't forced to give back to the community if you don't want to (though the GPL requires it if you want to take advantage of certain parts of FOSS)Feb 23 23:54
schestowitzOnly if you modifyFeb 23 23:56
Balrog_if you modify certain partsFeb 23 23:56
Balrog_that isFeb 23 23:56
Balrog_or link to certain partsFeb 23 23:56
Balrog_(I meant linking)Feb 23 23:56
schestowitzYes, but it's a tired mythFeb 23 23:57
schestowitzCommunism is Apple/MicrosoftFeb 23 23:57
Balrog_I know I know....Feb 23 23:57
schestowitzBut the brainwash persistsFeb 23 23:57
schestowitzThey try to use the image of RMS to associated it with MarxFeb 23 23:57
schestowitz*associateFeb 23 23:57
Balrog_true. Microsoft is the real problem because you have no choice with themFeb 23 23:57
Balrog_you buy a PC, it has to come with WindowsFeb 23 23:58
oiaohmRMS has always been a bit of a wild card.Feb 23 23:58
Balrog_yeah :/Feb 23 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

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