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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 - Part 2

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Balrog_schestowitz: show me a good alternativeMar 13 15:10
Balrog_is UDF patent-encumbered or only RO?Mar 13 15:11
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_Hicham_Balrog : ext2ifs is greatMar 13 15:17
_Hicham_i use it on WinXPMar 13 15:18
_Hicham_it works like a charmMar 13 15:18
_Hicham_it is easy : TomTom will prompt users to install the software, which will be ext2ifsMar 13 15:21
_Hicham_it is as simple as thatMar 13 15:22
_Hicham_and everything is still FOSSMar 13 15:22
_Hicham_and no MS lawsuitsMar 13 15:22
schestowitzBalrog: "only read only?" :-)Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_noMar 13 15:22
_Hicham_ext2ifs support writing alsoMar 13 15:22
_Hicham_do u use it actually?Mar 13 15:22
schestowitz_Hicham_: MS sued over other thingsMar 13 15:23
schestowitzLike car navigation+somethingMar 13 15:23
schestowitzOne of those "with car navigation patents"Mar 13 15:23
schestowitzLike "on the Internet" patentsMar 13 15:23
schestowitzOr "using a device"Mar 13 15:23
_Hicham_what was that?Mar 13 15:23
_Hicham_i only read about their fat patentMar 13 15:23
schestowitzCalculating 1+1 using an apparusMar 13 15:23
schestowitzCalculating 1+1 over the InternetMar 13 15:23
schestowitzCalculating 1+1 in a carMar 13 15:23
schestowitzTry this in the USPTOMar 13 15:24
schestowitzMaybe if you phrase it right you'll get a patent ;-)Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz_Hicham_: there are other patents (8)Mar 13 15:24
schestowitzMaybe Microsoft did this delibeatelyMar 13 15:24
schestowitzTo make it a bundleMar 13 15:24
schestowitzI.e. if TomTom works around the FAT patent, not much is gainedMar 13 15:25
schestowitzThey want TomTom to suffer defeatMar 13 15:25
schestowitzThey did this just shortly after a financial meltdownMar 13 15:25
schestowitzThen they used their vile shill, Rob Enderle, to deceiveMar 13 15:25
schestowitzThat's Microsoft for ya! :-)Mar 13 15:25
schestowitzScummy and proud of it.. since inception.Mar 13 15:26
schestowitzIf you compete against 'em, sooner or later they'll pass some laws to call you a "criminal"Mar 13 15:26
_Hicham_not if u avoid their technologyMar 13 15:28
schestowitzCNN advertises new Micrososft crony in the US administration (sort of): http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/0... (Microsoft exec appointed to DHS post)Mar 13 15:28
schestowitz French workers hold Sony boss hostage http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news...Mar 13 15:34
schestowitzUN report condemns Britain over torture cases http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/...Mar 13 15:36
schestowitzWhy Biofuels Are the Rainforest's Worst Enemy http://www.motherjones.com/environment/20...Mar 13 15:37
schestowitzUN climate chief: US carbon cuts could spark 'revolution' http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...Mar 13 15:38
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 15:40:36 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 15:40:49 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellMar 13 15:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Mar 13 15:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Mar 13 15:40
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelMar 13 15:40
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzMar 13 15:40
_Hicham_what happened Roy?Mar 13 15:41
schestowitzWrong keyMar 13 15:41
schestowitzhttp://www.minnpost.com/ericblackb... Was Cheney running a "terror state", by the very definition of "terror"?Mar 13 15:41
schestowitzDavid Cameron calls for full inquiry into Binyam Mohamed torture claims < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009... >Mar 13 15:43
schestowitzhttp://lists.essential.org/pip... "Could anyone reasonably have foreseen the consequences of a decades-long  regulatory holiday for the financial sector? In a word, yes. [...] There was nothing inevitable, unavoidable or unforeseeable about the current crisis."Mar 13 15:45
schestowitzhttp://www.physorg.com/news155333857.html "The anonymous comment on the Web site RateMDs.com was unsparing: "Very unhelpful, arrogant," it said of a doctor. "Did not listen and cut me off, seemed much too happy to have power (and abuse it!) over suffering people.""Mar 13 15:52
schestowitzStupid headline (ARM is already well ahead of x86): < http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/200... > (Analyst: ARM to surpass Atom, in 55% of netbooks by 2012)Mar 13 15:54
schestowitzMinceR: check out http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/03/1...Mar 13 15:56
Balrog_hehMar 13 15:58
Balrog_someone will quickly reverse engineer the button systemMar 13 15:58
Balrog_I heard it just generates noise that the ipod detectsMar 13 15:58
Balrog_(specially organized noise :P )Mar 13 15:58
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schestowitzhttp://www.bisnow.com/washington_dc... hehe. wish i could reuse the image at the top, with caption....Mar 13 16:26
schestowitz@trmanco : "Microsoft scrambled to fix a global outage that hit its Windows Live Hotmail service for several hours on Thursday." http://www.pcworld.com/article/161194/mi... not just gmail.Mar 13 16:33
schestowitzLost Xbox 360 Worth $1,000,000? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/16120... >Mar 13 16:35
schestowitzIm worried about Gnome < http://blog.hyperfish.org/... >Mar 13 16:44
Balrog_I never had a problem with gmail downMar 13 16:47
schestowitzMe neitherMar 13 16:49
*schestowitz would never use gmailMar 13 16:49
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_Hicham_Roy : why wouldnt you use gmail?Mar 13 16:57
schestowitzI have a permanent set of addresses that give privacy and offer many other advantagesMar 13 16:58
schestowitzToo many people 'offshore' their computing to SaaS and other complicated hosts that hold them hostageMar 13 16:58
schestowitzWow. Novell has been eerily quiet this week. Like one third of the usual news coverage it gets :-oMar 13 16:59
*schestowitz goes through NOVL news ATMMar 13 17:00
schestowitzJust updated this one with a good quote: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/13/mi...Mar 13 17:00
schestowitzMOG: "The Burton Group also points out that Oracle's OVM links with a Red Hat kernel while Virtual Iron uses SUSE and OEMs Novell's Platespin Migrate, suggesting that Novell will be the one to say ouch if the deal does go down."Mar 13 17:02
schestowitzThe Burton Group is somewhat of  Microsoft shill, attacking Microsoft rivals for the wageMar 13 17:02
_Hicham_Roy: can u suggest a good mail service?Mar 13 17:03
Balrog_certainly not hotmail :PMar 13 17:06
_Hicham_well, i think i should deploy my own serverMar 13 17:10
_Hicham_it will be completely freeMar 13 17:11
_Hicham_it would be called GNU International Mail SystemMar 13 17:11
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, don't DIYMar 13 17:11
schestowitzBut you can get a host for a few dollars a monthMar 13 17:11
schestowitzYou register a domainMar 13 17:12
schestowitzYou can move between hosts for decades, so there's no risk associatedMar 13 17:12
Balrog_get a VPSMar 13 17:18
_Hicham_GNU should have a mail service, no?Mar 13 17:20
Balrog_mail services are expensive to runMar 13 17:21
Balrog_electricity isn't freeMar 13 17:21
_Hicham_then companies should helpMar 13 17:21
_Hicham_there must a complete set of GNU alternativesMar 13 17:22
schestowitz_Hicham_: maybe that existsMar 13 17:23
schestowitzFSF sets up mail forwardersMar 13 17:23
schestowitzBut it's not proper mailMar 13 17:23
schestowitzThe worst thing is universities that set up accounts for peopleMar 13 17:23
schestowitzThen the addresses are TIED to affiliationsMar 13 17:23
schestowitzSame with working placesMar 13 17:23
schestowitzSo when you leave, then lots of mail might be routed to /dev/nullMar 13 17:24
schestowitzThat's why you need a permanent addressMar 13 17:24
schestowitzNot FSF, not a work E-mail, not academic affiliationMar 13 17:24
schestowitzThese change over timeMar 13 17:24
schestowitzMy PGP sig is still tied to an old address of mineMar 13 17:24
schestowitzsch at danielsorogon.com (you can watch the site)Mar 13 17:25
_Hicham_and u dont use this address anymore?Mar 13 17:25
schestowitzI check it, but not use itMar 13 17:26
schestowitzmostly spamMar 13 17:27
_Hicham_there is no filters in it?Mar 13 17:27
schestowitzit was deprecated 5 years ago.Mar 13 17:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: it's a  BSD serverMar 13 17:27
schestowitzNo cpanel, no option for forwardingMar 13 17:27
schestowitzSpot-on analysts from Moody: No Mac advice as BBC team exposes...its Windows-centricity (again) < http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallife... >Mar 13 17:33
schestowitz*sigh* Unless The Register kicks Gavin Clarke, then it has become just another pro-Microsoft 'news' siteMar 13 17:36
Balrog_nothing new for BBCMar 13 17:36
Balrog_they've done this beforeMar 13 17:36
schestowitzNow it has some spin on "MS invested the iPod'Mar 13 17:36
schestowitzAnd it's always GavinMar 13 17:36
schestowitzAlso Linux-hostile stuff.......Mar 13 17:36
Balrog_MS did the zune, which went nowhereMar 13 17:37
schestowitzHe's a friend of Mary jo Foley, in case that gives you a clue. Whatever happened to The Register which thought outside the box? The Microsoft deal changed everything and people do notice, even kentma1 Mar 13 17:37
schestowitzBalrog: the Zune can't surviveMar 13 17:37
Balrog_I know.Mar 13 17:37
schestowitzI wonder what goes though the minds of people there.Mar 13 17:37
schestowitzThey can't admit defeatMar 13 17:37
Balrog_the Zune can't be even used as a mass-storage device...Mar 13 17:38
Balrog_(neither can the ipod touch / iphone, but there are ways to access its FS)Mar 13 17:38
schestowitzAt least they don't spend MORE money advertising it.Mar 13 17:38
Balrog_mhmMar 13 17:38
schestowitzBalrog_:because of FAT patents? ;-)Mar 13 17:38
schestowitzI love this one: Guerilla Marketer for Microsoft Zune Arrested in Austin < http://www.keathmilligan.net/node/137 >Mar 13 17:39
Balrog_what, the iPhone?Mar 13 17:39
schestowitzI hate Guerilla with passionMar 13 17:39
Balrog_it has no fat, that's true...Mar 13 17:39
schestowitzbe it marketing or warfareMar 13 17:39
schestowitzHehe. Still funny. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-...Mar 13 17:40
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/... "The Manchester-based company closed its doors on Tuesday, paying off staff and shutting the office, sources told The Register. The firm's web site was still up as of last night and calls to the office are being met with an answerphone." That's nearbyMar 13 17:41
schestowitzThe fiends from Edelman are paid by Walmart for their propaganda: Wal-Mart Buys PR in Bulk < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8269 > They also bribed bloggers with Vista.Mar 13 17:44
schestowitzWatch how drug companies filthily occupy the panels < http://www.prweekus.com/Reformspurshealthcar... > (Reform spurs healthcare groups into action)Mar 13 17:46
Balrog_http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p...Mar 13 17:47
Balrog_FOIA Request For Pending Copyright Treaty DeniedMar 13 17:47
schestowitzhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article... (w/o the trailing slash)Mar 13 17:47
Balrog_arghMar 13 17:48
Balrog_sorryMar 13 17:48
schestowitzTobacco industry lobbies to carry on 'killing people': http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/ne... (Tobacco Industry Blocking Global Treaty On Smoking In Asean Countries)Mar 13 17:53
schestowitzThe tobacco industry killed many people (over 100 million probably), including part of my family and many others out there. How is it still managing to 'lobby'?Mar 13 17:54
schestowitz"Shapiro is an influential industrial economist but as many of his colleagues he has a flexibility. All premium league economists know that the patent system has no sound economic foundation or they just assume it had. So economists don't believe in the god Benamuki and witchcraft but feel it would be inappropriate and insulting to tell the aborigines so and they like their hospitality"Mar 13 17:58
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_Hicham_tobacco industry will never dieMar 13 18:00
Balrog_patents last 20 years in the US, right?Mar 13 18:01
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Balrog_still hereMar 13 18:10
Balrog_so I'm stuck doing some windows installs :(Mar 13 18:11
_Hicham_why do u install windows?Mar 13 18:11
Balrog_I'm paid to do soMar 13 18:11
_Hicham_greatMar 13 18:11
Balrog_though it's not the main system anywayMar 13 18:12
_Hicham_why do they use it?Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_the main system is Solaris, and Windows runs on a PCI cardMar 13 18:12
Balrog_we have dual-boot hereMar 13 18:12
Balrog_or PCI cardMar 13 18:12
Balrog_as I said, there are people here who like .NETMar 13 18:12
Balrog_they offer several courses in VB.NETMar 13 18:12
_Hicham_then install mono :)Mar 13 18:13
_Hicham_:-DMar 13 18:13
Balrog_and visual studioMar 13 18:13
Balrog_professors are too lazy not to use VSMar 13 18:13
schestowitzNot necessarilyMar 13 18:13
schestowitzWhat I've learned from people is that Mcirosoft employees can cause thisMar 13 18:13
_Hicham_what do u suggest Roy?Mar 13 18:13
schestowitzAnd their buddiesMar 13 18:13
schestowitzIt's enough to have some Microsoft sympathetic people in the department to expel oppositionMar 13 18:14
schestowitzAnd to spread the Microsoft for kickbacksMar 13 18:14
schestowitzBear in mind that Microsoft bribes professorsMar 13 18:14
schestowitzThis appeared in the pressMar 13 18:14
Balrog_there's this professor that says you're not learning the language but the methodsMar 13 18:14
schestowitzIt would pay them $200 (cheque) just to mention Microsoft tools.Mar 13 18:14
schestowitzBalrog_: he's rightMar 13 18:15
_Hicham_wowMar 13 18:15
schestowitzOthers who recommend otteach MS are suspectMar 13 18:15
_Hicham_$200Mar 13 18:15
schestowitzThey could be bribedMar 13 18:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: yesMar 13 18:15
Balrog_that's why VS.NET is 'ok'Mar 13 18:15
_Hicham_here people do it for freeMar 13 18:15
schestowitzLet me get you the linkMar 13 18:15
schestowitzIn case someone disputes itMar 13 18:15
_Hicham_:-DMar 13 18:15
Balrog_also office is used a lotMar 13 18:15
Balrog_(the MS one)Mar 13 18:15
schestowitzBookmark this: http://chronicle.com/data/articles....Mar 13 18:15
Balrog_I see.Mar 13 18:16
schestowitzAnd you're pemitted to ask professors if Microsoft somehow paid themMar 13 18:16
schestowitzbecause Microsoft already has blood in its handsMar 13 18:16
balzachttp://img267.imageshack.us/img2...Mar 13 18:16
schestowitzSo it's not a void accusationMar 13 18:16
schestowitzThink of it as a warrantMar 13 18:16
schestowitzOr treating one with a police recordMar 13 18:17
balzacRoy, you're hosting your own email on BN?Mar 13 18:17
Balrog_also some professors say that silverlight is 'big' right nowMar 13 18:17
_Hicham_:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-DMar 13 18:17
Balrog_(and flex, but SL first)Mar 13 18:17
_Hicham_great offerMar 13 18:17
schestowitzbalzac: no, but there is a catch-all mail account there.Mar 13 18:17
schestowitzBalrog_: also for Silver LieMar 13 18:17
schestowitzPeople i nthe university may be bribedMar 13 18:17
schestowitzMaybe off the recordMar 13 18:17
schestowitzLunchtime... hush-hush... underneath tableMar 13 18:17
_Hicham_this is one of the biggest funniest things that i ve ever heardMar 13 18:17
Balrog_I tell them I can't use SL on my systems, because it doesn't workMar 13 18:17
balzacwhat do you use for your primary email service?Mar 13 18:18
Balrog_they agreeMar 13 18:18
schestowitzMicfrosoft does bribe for Silver LieMar 13 18:18
_Hicham_$200Mar 13 18:18
schestowitzI'll give you linksMar 13 18:18
_Hicham_hahahahaMar 13 18:18
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/0...Mar 13 18:18
balzacI asked RMS for a gnu.org email address but he declined.Mar 13 18:18
schestowitzI have many links in the first partMar 13 18:18
schestowitzAll externalMar 13 18:18
schestowitzJust follow the links. It's a catch-all one-stop shopMar 13 18:18
balzacI really think I ought to have one, even given my relative inexperience as a programmer.Mar 13 18:19
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Balrog_heh ... adobe is even complainingMar 13 18:19
schestowitzbalzac: ask for a stallman.org addressMar 13 18:19
schestowitzHey, myRicky_cn Mar 13 18:19
schestowitzBalrog_: rightly soMar 13 18:19
balzacRoy, perhaps I will.Mar 13 18:19
schestowitzThey are being 'bribed' out of businessMar 13 18:19
schestowitzMicrosoft played such dirty tricks beforeMar 13 18:19
balzacOr, I could get my gnewcrew.com website up and running and host my own emailMar 13 18:19
schestowitzUse deep pocketMar 13 18:19
balzacgnucrewMar 13 18:19
balzac.comMar 13 18:19
schestowitzTolerate shor-term lossesMar 13 18:19
balzacbadass domain, eh?Mar 13 18:20
schestowitzThen try to elbow and derail competitionMar 13 18:20
schestowitz"tilt into death spiral." remember?Mar 13 18:20
schestowitzbalzac: go hardcore and buy gnucabal.orgMar 13 18:20
balzacperhaps not a bad ideaMar 13 18:21
schestowitzbalzac: did you make the animation?Mar 13 18:21
Balrog_the profs say that vb.net and c# are important because they're the basis for SLMar 13 18:21
schestowitzOne could argue that it's racist, so I can't use itMar 13 18:21
balzacsounds more specifically like jew-core than hard-coreMar 13 18:21
schestowitzBalrog_: maybe the professors are profe$$orsMar 13 18:21
schestowitzMaybe they profess to the wallet, I don't know..Mar 13 18:21
schestowitzWho needs SL?Mar 13 18:21
schestowitzWhy would they care?Mar 13 18:21
schestowitzSL is nowhereMar 13 18:22
schestowitzMS is nearly giving up on itMar 13 18:22
schestowitzIt doesn't sellMar 13 18:22
schestowitzMicrosoft pays for it to 'sell'Mar 13 18:22
Balrog_what about if they go to a web site, and it says 'you must install SL to use it'Mar 13 18:22
balzacif the word "cabal" from the word kabbalaMar 13 18:22
schestowitz"Take the money, take SL"Mar 13 18:22
schestowitzBalrog_: then complainMar 13 18:22
Balrog_like that *** in spain (if I remember correctly)Mar 13 18:22
balzacoriginates ^Mar 13 18:22
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schestowitzSL is blocking GNU/Linux, BSD, etc,Mar 13 18:22
schestowitzSL is Microsoft lockinMar 13 18:22
_Hicham_svg is betterMar 13 18:22
schestowitzIt's binary cancer on the WebMar 13 18:22
schestowitzIt's anti-WebMar 13 18:22
Balrog_who supports svg?Mar 13 18:22
_Hicham_MozillaMar 13 18:23
schestowitzEven timbl complains about this rubbishMar 13 18:23
Balrog_Safari, Firefox ...Mar 13 18:23
schestowitzMicrosoft is deforming his WebMar 13 18:23
Balrog_probably not IEMar 13 18:23
schestowitztossing away HTMLMar 13 18:23
_Hicham_IE is just crapMar 13 18:23
schestowitzReplacing it with secret codesMar 13 18:23
Balrog_yeah. I've seen full web pages done in SLMar 13 18:23
schestowitzBalrog_: who put them there?Mar 13 18:23
_Hicham_I even think of blocking IE users from my websiteMar 13 18:23
schestowitzIt sounds as though your faculty members have lunch with the wrong chumsMar 13 18:23
Balrog_<< lecture video-capture 'solutions'Mar 13 18:24
Balrog_well some of them, I thinkMar 13 18:24
schestowitzNot only do they promote dotnet, but they also force students to move this wayMar 13 18:24
Balrog_many push JavaMar 13 18:24
schestowitze.g. with Web pages that are not Web pagesMar 13 18:24
schestowitzThat are MS objectsMar 13 18:24
_Hicham_i think people in GNU should support svgMar 13 18:24
_Hicham_and provide a complete replacement for flashMar 13 18:24
schestowitzSVG is already supportedMar 13 18:25
Balrog_what about this?Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_http://webkit.org/blog/324/cs...Mar 13 18:25
schestowitzMicrosoft stifled it..Mar 13 18:25
schestowitzI wrote about it in BNMar 13 18:25
schestowitzMicrosoft hobbles the WebMar 13 18:25
Balrog_do you think it would be good to have such css-animations in the standard?Mar 13 18:25
schestowitzUnless it's binaries MS controlsMar 13 18:25
schestowitzOr Office renderingMar 13 18:25
balzacroy, I accidentally wiped one of my partitions on my notebookMar 13 18:25
schestowitzThey should be slammed by regulators for it really.Mar 13 18:25
balzacI think I lost this excellent 3d model I was buildingMar 13 18:25
Balrog_sure they shouldMar 13 18:25
Balrog_balzac: dd-rescue?Mar 13 18:26
schestowitzBalrog_: model of a model?Mar 13 18:26
balzacOh well, I'll probably do a better job next timeMar 13 18:26
balzacI reformatted the diskMar 13 18:26
Balrog_schestowitz: Balrog or balzac?Mar 13 18:26
schestowitzbalzac: Mar 13 18:26
balzacI was making this pimpin GNU avatar in 3d, kind of like the BSD devil mascot with a hot bimbo on each armMar 13 18:26
balzacbut I may have lost itMar 13 18:26
balzacblender is greatMar 13 18:27
Balrog_I hate installing windowsMar 13 18:27
Balrog_takes 2-3 hours, including updatesMar 13 18:27
schestowitzI can't recall installing WindowsMar 13 18:28
schestowitz..Mar 13 18:28
schestowitzMany years ago I probably had some people install it for meMar 13 18:28
Balrog_I installed WinME onceMar 13 18:28
schestowitzIn 2000 I tried putting Win2000 on a Compaq laptopMar 13 18:28
schestowitzIt didn't workMar 13 18:28
schestowitzNo drivers for stuff :-)Mar 13 18:28
schestowitzSo I went back to Win98Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_and then proceeded to run updatesMar 13 18:29
schestowitzMaybe it was in 2001Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_which blew up the system.Mar 13 18:29
schestowitzI think that's the last time I really installed WIndowsMar 13 18:29
Balrog_I have a older compaq laptop running Win2KMar 13 18:29
schestowitzOr maybe I installed Windows 98 for my sister a while later, but it was from a QuickRestore CDMar 13 18:29
schestowitzSo it's just an imageMar 13 18:29
schestowitzNot an installation per seMar 13 18:29
Balrog_Thinking about putting linux on it, but it's slow (P3-500) and I'm not the primary userMar 13 18:29
schestowitzBalrog_: Presario?Mar 13 18:30
Balrog_no, ArmadaMar 13 18:30
schestowitzI was gonna suggest thatMar 13 18:30
schestowitzArmada/PresarioMar 13 18:30
schestowitzCause Armada came just laterMar 13 18:30
schestowitzI wonder how handy that 400MHz AMD laptop would be nowMar 13 18:30
schestowitzIt's too weak to take UbuntuMar 13 18:31
Balrog_Would a researcher compromise his integrity for $200? Well, Matlab licenses cost $500, and they rely on Matlab here.Mar 13 18:31
schestowitzJust 32Mb of RAMMar 13 18:31
Balrog_(for research)Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_32MB ram? won't workMar 13 18:31
schestowitzI tried Ubuntu 4.10 on itMar 13 18:31
Balrog_need at least 128Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_That much ram is enough for Mac System 8 though :PMar 13 18:31
schestowitzMac sucksMar 13 18:31
schestowitzMac OS 8/9 esp.Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_(meaning 90's era mac)Mar 13 18:32
schestowitzToo promitive compared to LinuxMar 13 18:32
Balrog_7 worked wellMar 13 18:32
Balrog_8/9 had its problemsMar 13 18:32
Balrog_was definitely better than linux of it's day thoughMar 13 18:32
Balrog_(usability wise)Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_but yeah, by 8.6-9, it really was falling apartMar 13 18:34
Balrog_what do you think about faculty relying on expensive matlab?Mar 13 18:34
*Balrog_ is now known as BalrogMar 13 18:36
balzacI still have the 3d modelMar 13 18:36
balzachttp://www.oteltours.com/Screenshot.pngMar 13 18:36
Balrogthat's your website?Mar 13 18:36
balzacof course I'm going to put some skimpy clothes on the girls and everythingMar 13 18:37
balzacthat's a client websiteMar 13 18:37
balzacand it's a 3d project I'm working on the promote gnu softwareMar 13 18:37
BalrogookMar 13 18:37
balzacNot sure what the GNU avatar/mascot should be wearingMar 13 18:37
balzactshirt, jeans, sneakers perhapsMar 13 18:38
balzacbut I'm trying to market GNU software to young urban demographic - the GNU might be wearing some chainsMar 13 18:38
schestowitzBalrog: I was using MATLAB myselfMar 13 18:38
Balrogbalzac: the popularity of chains is in disputeMar 13 18:38
balzacthe girls will be dressed up in urban casual I think. Or I could go with a biker themeMar 13 18:39
Balrogschestowitz: elaborateMar 13 18:39
schestowitzhttp://www.mathworks.com/matlabcen...Mar 13 18:39
balzacI want to put the GNU on a motorbike with a girl on the back of the bike. Leather-jacket wearing badass gnu.Mar 13 18:39
schestowitzI've had about 80,000 downloads of my code there.Mar 13 18:39
schestowitzIn 2005 I was ranked 1st for my MATLAB contral contribs.Mar 13 18:39
schestowitzSo the people there know meMar 13 18:39
Balrogwow.Mar 13 18:40
schestowitzBut I no longer use itMar 13 18:40
balzacBalrog: I have different themes in mind, but the idea is that the GNU is a badass. Smoking a spliff, etc.Mar 13 18:40
BalrogBut matlab isn't free software ...Mar 13 18:40
Balrogbalzac: there will be a group that don't like thatMar 13 18:40
balzacBalrog: sure, but I'm trying to help GNU win the popularity contest, and that means pop-culture pandering.Mar 13 18:41
schestowitzbalzac: LL Cool GMar 13 18:41
schestowitzLadies Love cool GNUMar 13 18:41
balzacI really like the GNU as a buddhist monkMar 13 18:41
balzacBut I'm trying to portray another side of GNU. GNU is the man now, dog. Don't step to this, suckas get dissed.Mar 13 18:41
Balrogschestowitz: how does gnu octave compare to matlab?Mar 13 18:42
schestowitzI tried to compile it some years agoMar 13 18:43
schestowitzNo luvMar 13 18:43
balzacBalrog: I'll show you another oneMar 13 18:43
schestowitzBut looking back, I'd use that insteadMar 13 18:43
Balroghmm. I hear it changed a lot since a few years agoMar 13 18:43
schestowitzCOllagues are an issueMar 13 18:43
balzachttp://www.disruptech.com/c...Mar 13 18:43
Balrogisn't octave code similar enough?Mar 13 18:44
balzacAnother in the GNU-as-badass themeMar 13 18:44
schestowitzBalrog: I don't know it well enoughMar 13 18:44
schestowitzFor basic things it'll be greatMar 13 18:44
balzacRMS as a gangsterMar 13 18:44
schestowitzDunno how it handles GUIs and all..Mar 13 18:44
schestowitzbalzac: good one that!Mar 13 18:44
Balrogdisruptech not loadingMar 13 18:44
schestowitzSend it to RMSMar 13 18:44
balzactry again, the host is a bit suckyMar 13 18:45
balzacRoy, I haven't solicited his opinion on itMar 13 18:45
balzacI don't know if he'll agree with my spin on things so I figure I just won't ask for his opinionMar 13 18:45
schestowitzbalzac: can I repost it in BN for kicks?Mar 13 18:45
balzacsureMar 13 18:45
schestowitzThanks.Mar 13 18:45
balzacbut not the 3d oenMar 13 18:46
balzacit's not close enough to finishedMar 13 18:46
balzacRoy, hopefully you'll blog-roll disruptech.com. I'll probably do some blogging there in the future.Mar 13 18:48
balzacactually, I've been wanting to syndicate BN content on disruptech.comMar 13 18:48
balzacI guess you do have an RSS feedMar 13 18:49
schestowitzbalzac: can you do a quick favour and read http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03... ?Mar 13 18:51
schestowitzI think it has typos leftMar 13 18:51
schestowitzbalzac: we don't do blogrolls or linksMar 13 18:51
schestowitzCause that leads to feelings of exclusionMar 13 18:51
schestowitzOr preferential stuff.Mar 13 18:51
schestowitzIf you blog there, then links to articles would fit well.Mar 13 18:52
schestowitzbalzac: yes, we have RSSMar 13 18:52
schestowitzYou have RMSMar 13 18:52
balzacRoy, I'll take a look, but I'm not an english major. I'm better at editorial than secretarial proof-reading.Mar 13 18:53
schestowitzEither one is goodMar 13 18:53
schestowitzI hate writing.Mar 13 18:53
balzacRoy, I don't mind if thin-skinned people get miffedMar 13 18:53
schestowitzWell, checking it meticulously anywayMar 13 18:53
schestowitzTime consuming if you strive for polishMar 13 18:53
balzacBut I might randomize my blog roll, or I might have them ranked as I do now.Mar 13 18:53
_Hicham_Roy : are u still a matlab user now?Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz_Hicham_: no.Mar 13 18:54
schestowitzI have access to it thoughMar 13 18:54
_Hicham_do u use octave instead?Mar 13 18:54
balzacthose guys in #ubuntu-ops banned me againMar 13 19:09
balzacfirst I tried to /j #ubuntu and I was redirected to #ubuntu-opsMar 13 19:09
balzacthen they served me a ration of sh_t and banned meMar 13 19:10
_Hicham_who banned u?Mar 13 19:10
balzacsomeone in #ubuntu-opsMar 13 19:10
balzacI don't take it very seriouslyMar 13 19:10
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balzacit's just IRC attitudeMar 13 19:11
_Hicham_do u have pb with the admin there?Mar 13 19:11
balzacwell, noMar 13 19:11
balzacbut one or more of them have a problem with meMar 13 19:11
balzacI was talking off-topic in #ubuntuMar 13 19:12
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balzacthen they suggested I take it to #ubuntu-offtopicMar 13 19:12
balzacI took issue with the name of that channelMar 13 19:12
balzacFedora's free-discussion channel is called #fedora-socialMar 13 19:12
balzacsounds more inviting doesn't it?Mar 13 19:12
balzacso then one of the #ubuntu ops gets testy and bans meMar 13 19:13
balzacso I joined #ubuntu-ops and questioned their testinessMar 13 19:13
balzacanyway, I'm not the least be concerned or upset about itMar 13 19:13
_Hicham_weirdMar 13 19:13
balzacNext day I went in there with the nick Dont_Tase_Me_BroMar 13 19:14
balzacso the "tased" meMar 13 19:14
_Hicham_weird adminsMar 13 19:14
balzacactually, they didn't, I left on my own volition after idling for a few hours and chatting intermittentlyMar 13 19:14
_Hicham_that proves that u can't find better than RoyMar 13 19:14
balzacwell, IRC ops can't seem to keep from getting a teeny bit neurotic about thingsMar 13 19:15
_Hicham_except for RoyMar 13 19:15
_Hicham_he is really greatMar 13 19:15
balzacbut today, I got re-routed from #ubuntu to #ubuntu-opsMar 13 19:15
balzacI didn't /j #ubuntu-ops I was routed thereMar 13 19:15
balzacso I felt as if I were an invited guestMar 13 19:15
balzacthen some small talk and another banMar 13 19:15
balzacThey can't figure out if they like me or not, I supposeMar 13 19:16
schestowitz_Hicham_: I don't use octave, no.Mar 13 19:16
_Hicham_schestowitz: u stopped developing scientific programs?Mar 13 19:17
schestowitzPretty much so.Mar 13 19:18
schestowitzI'm writing about IDC at the momentMar 13 19:19
balzacI got kicked from #fedora for the pic of "Lionidas" with the fedora logo used as pastiesMar 13 19:19
benJImanopenSUSE's offtopic channel is #opensuse-chat.Mar 13 19:20
balzacBut I just joined #fedora-social and I had no complaints, since I was off-topic in their support channel.Mar 13 19:20
balzacand #fedora-social seems like an inviting name, unlike #ubuntu-offtopicMar 13 19:20
balzacI've personally met with Abbie Hoffman and I'm facebook friends with Paul KrassnerMar 13 19:21
balzacso I've got a weird sense of humor that not everyone appreciatesMar 13 19:21
balzacI met Abbie Hoffman as a kid, my dad, brother and I went for a ride on his boat.Mar 13 19:21
_Hicham_balzac: sense of humor in a support channel?Mar 13 19:21
balzacwhy not?Mar 13 19:22
balzacit's okay to step out of line once in a whileMar 13 19:22
_Hicham_it depends on peopleMar 13 19:22
balzac_Hicham_: across the board, i think Freenode is incrementally becomming more utilitarian and efficient, corporatized and uptight.Mar 13 19:23
_Hicham_that is goodMar 13 19:23
balzacSo I step out of line once in a while, and I don't need to be metaphorically tased by some authoritarian IRC op.Mar 13 19:23
_Hicham_i dont need to talk to someone who is cold as iceMar 13 19:24
_Hicham_i prefer this channelMar 13 19:24
_Hicham_ubuntu channel is just crapMar 13 19:25
balzacI wouldn't say thatMar 13 19:25
_Hicham_there are just robotsMar 13 19:25
balzaclots of good support work gets done thereMar 13 19:25
_Hicham_it is a personal opinionMar 13 19:25
_Hicham_im not talking about supportMar 13 19:25
_Hicham_it is too serious in thereMar 13 19:25
_Hicham_i didnt like itMar 13 19:26
balzacsome people take the job of enforcing rules with a bit too much seriousness. Espcially IRC ops, on every IRC network, in almost every channel.Mar 13 19:26
_Hicham_they are then wrongMar 13 19:26
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_Hicham_a good sense of humor is a plusMar 13 19:27
balzacI've been enjoying teasing them a bitMar 13 19:29
balzacI'm not worried about it.Mar 13 19:29
schestowitzbalzac: what to link this img to? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conte...Mar 13 19:30
_Hicham_i dont understand this image very wellMar 13 19:30
balzacmaybe to stallman.orgMar 13 19:31
balzacunless he finds it distastefulMar 13 19:32
balzacI'm not going to ask him about itMar 13 19:32
balzacI think RMS will have a sense of humor about it, but ultimately, I'm not concerned very much either wayMar 13 19:33
balzac_Hicham_: ever see a movie called Godfather with Marlin Brando?Mar 13 19:35
balzacA mafia donMar 13 19:35
balzacIn NY, people wear t-shirts with the God Father logo on it, as well as scarface t-shirtsMar 13 19:35
balzacbecause they think the mafia is coolMar 13 19:36
tessier_hahah....that's funny. :)Mar 13 19:36
balzacso it's a joke because RMS is such a benevolent guy, I'm portraying him with a different side - as a powerful guy who does not suffer fools.Mar 13 19:36
_Hicham_was AlPacino in Godfather?Mar 13 19:37
balzacIt's intended as a warning to his critics. Don't trash-talk RMS or you may end up wearing the clown-shoes yourself.Mar 13 19:38
balzacmaybeMar 13 19:38
_Hicham_Roy : in Wikipedia, it is said that Miguel De Icaza didnt participate to the negociations before the dealMar 13 19:40
schestowitz_Hicham_:  he didMar 13 19:41
schestowitzHe even went to Microsoft trying to change it before it happened, IIRCMar 13 19:42
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schestowitzNovell/MS deal.Mar 13 19:42
_Hicham_we should change the article thenMar 13 19:42
schestowitzWhen the deal happened he reacted in his blog as though he knew about it all alongMar 13 19:42
_Hicham_do u have any references?Mar 13 19:42
schestowitzWhere is this article?Mar 13 19:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: I should spend time finding itMar 13 19:42
_Hicham_we should contact Wikipedia to change the articleMar 13 19:43
schestowitzI'm not sure what to search for.Mar 13 19:43
schestowitzIt was like 2 years agoMar 13 19:43
_Hicham_coz u know that wikipedia is the main source of infoMar 13 19:44
schestowitzFind out who put it there in the first placeMar 13 19:44
schestowitzWatch article historyMar 13 19:44
schestowitzMaybe our source was not correctMar 13 19:44
schestowitzBut as I remember it, Moglen, Allison and also de Icaza (Maybe Nat Friedman also, but I'm not sure) were consultedMar 13 19:44
schestowitzMiguel was against parts of the dealMar 13 19:45
schestowitzAFAIKMar 13 19:45
_Hicham_but Mono was started in 2001Mar 13 19:45
_Hicham_i dont understandMar 13 19:45
_Hicham_weirdMar 13 19:45
schestowitzHaha Mar 13 19:46
schestowitzBUSTED!!!Mar 13 19:46
schestowitzGood to keep docs aroundMar 13 19:46
schestowitzRight from the mouth of his buddyMar 13 19:47
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/22/m...Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz\#Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz said,Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzMay 4, 2008 at 12:25 am €· EditMar 13 19:47
schestowitzNot true. You appear not to know the whole story. Several senior engineers, including Jeremy Allison and Miguel de Icaza, for instance, knew about this deal in advance.Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzMiguel, to his credit, even traveled to Redmond hoping to change it, IIRC, while Jeremy protested against the deal, albeit no vigorously enough (which he later regretted). He told this to us in an interview we did. It all appears in older articles from the end of 2006.Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz#Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzDan O'Brian said,Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzMay 4, 2008 at 9:10 am €· EditMar 13 19:47
schestowitzThen, if true, You have to give Miguel a lot of credit and that there proves Miguel to not be in Microsoft’s pocket.Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzWhen I stated that Miguel was not informed of the deal ahead of time, I was referring to this blog post:Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzhttp://tirania.org/blog/ar...Mar 13 19:47
schestowitzAfter re-reading, he notes that he was told less than a week in advance of the announcement.Mar 13 19:47
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_Hicham_I don't why they didn't chose to support others platformsMar 13 19:58
_Hicham_like Java for instanceMar 13 19:58
_Hicham_microsoft itself uses JavaMar 13 19:58
Omar87http://www.tgdaily.com/con...Mar 13 20:04
Omar87 Personally, I believe the only way we should communicate with MS is through swords and gunpowder.Mar 13 20:04
Omar87 And the only solution between us and MS, is to see MS burning to the grownd and Gates and Ballmer in jail.Mar 13 20:04
schestowitzWhat has Negroponte become?? "Negroponte told ZDNet UK via email. "By then, I am convinced Microsoft will have Windows on the ARM." http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000...Mar 13 20:05
schestowitzIs he trying to push Microsoft into Linux-only turf?Mar 13 20:05
schestowitzit's like he's turning OLPC into some kind of MS-enablerMar 13 20:05
Omar87schestowitz: or, what do you think?Mar 13 20:06
schestowitzOmar87: I heard bad things from someone who met Sam RamjiMar 13 20:06
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Omar87schestowitz: regarding what?Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz"He is such a traitor, a sneak thief, a provocateur, a spy, an infiltrator."Mar 13 20:07
schestowitzHe tried to sneak into their LUGs tooMar 13 20:07
Omar87Gates?Mar 13 20:07
schestowitzThat's Microsoft for ya.Mar 13 20:07
schestowitzA bunch of turncoatsMar 13 20:07
schestowitzAnd people trying to hijack your group like they did with ISO and others...Mar 13 20:08
Omar87Yeah, so you do agree with my opinion?Mar 13 20:08
schestowitzNot with the violent partsMar 13 20:08
schestowitzCause that's not diplomaticMar 13 20:08
schestowitzI think we need people with dignity running thingsMar 13 20:08
schestowitzItem 1 on the agenda:Mar 13 20:08
_Hicham_We should develop a virus for Windows that install Linux by forceMar 13 20:08
schestowitzDismantle criminal companiesMar 13 20:08
_Hicham_that is a good wayMar 13 20:08
schestowitzBlackwater, Intel, Microsoft, tobacco industry, etc.Mar 13 20:09
MinceRthat would show us as criminalsMar 13 20:09
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MinceRit would be better if a virus would be developed for windows that can't be traced to our communityMar 13 20:09
schestowitzHaha.Mar 13 20:09
Omar87schestowitz: By "Swords and Gunpowder, and burning to the ground"... I meant the competition.Mar 13 20:09
schestowitzWell, that's not displomaic eitherMar 13 20:09
schestowitzIt's also against the lawMar 13 20:09
MinceRwith disastrous effects -- that would force people to think about where they put their trust with regards to securityMar 13 20:09
MinceRand why security is importantMar 13 20:09
schestowitzLet them besiege themselves with the 1,000,000+ viruses they already haveMar 13 20:10
schestowitzmewonders how much RAM is consumed by Norton et al just catchijng virus sigsMar 13 20:10
schestowitz*cachingMar 13 20:10
Omar87No, diplomacy with MS would work, only showing the world how much they've suffocated innovation would.Mar 13 20:10
schestowitzOmar87: yesMar 13 20:10
schestowitzThat's what BN is aboutMar 13 20:10
MinceRdiplomacy -- only aggressive negotiations can work with themMar 13 20:10
schestowitzLet people discover what they shouldMar 13 20:10
MinceR"negotiation with a lightsaber"Mar 13 20:10
schestowitzMicrosoft has an extended familyMar 13 20:10
schestowitzInc. NovellMar 13 20:10
Omar87schestowitz: Exactly, that's part of what I mean by "Swords and Gunpowder"Mar 13 20:11
schestowitzand IDC. I wrote about it minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/200...Mar 13 20:11
schestowitzOmar87: not quiteMar 13 20:11
schestowitzI think about truth versus crimeMar 13 20:11
schestowitzLet them fight with crime (swords and gun powder)Mar 13 20:11
schestowitzI am gonna publish a post about their latest smear campaignMar 13 20:11
Omar87schestowitz: Oh come on! I mean Novell ain't no threat. It's one stupid pathetic insect! :DMar 13 20:11
schestowitzA Microsoft CEO personally attacked a criticMar 13 20:12
schestowitzHe contacted the person's bossMar 13 20:12
_Hicham_no, we should be more aggressiveMar 13 20:12
schestowitzTried to get him fired or somethingMar 13 20:12
schestowitzThat's what I call white-collar crimeMar 13 20:12
_Hicham_personally, I liked Mozilla policy on spreading FirefoxMar 13 20:12
schestowitzAnd by exposing thbe truth we can fight itMar 13 20:12
schestowitzCausing Microsoft even more damageMar 13 20:12
MinceRnovell is part of m$ and thus it's part of the threatMar 13 20:12
schestowitzThe person (victim) wants it publishedMar 13 20:12
schestowitzBut I need to anonymiseMar 13 20:12
schestowitzRather, to hide the identityMar 13 20:12
_Hicham_I like also how Ubuntu is actingMar 13 20:13
_Hicham_sending you linux for freeMar 13 20:13
schestowitz_Hicham_: Microsoft has a policy tooMar 13 20:13
schestowitzSpread FireMar 13 20:13
_Hicham_and organizing install partiesMar 13 20:13
_Hicham_these install parties are greatMar 13 20:13
schestowitzAlso for social reasonsMar 13 20:13
_Hicham_that is a good way to spead thingsMar 13 20:13
schestowitzThe political system has voluntarily entablish a society that is dividedMar 13 20:13
schestowitzIt makes people helplessMar 13 20:13
schestowitzThey know they get screwwedMar 13 20:14
schestowitzThey can't really do anything about itMar 13 20:14
_Hicham_Microsoft is giving their products for free for studentsMar 13 20:14
schestowitzThey are kept isolatedMar 13 20:14
schestowitzSo no voiceMar 13 20:14
_Hicham_MSVC for freeMar 13 20:14
_Hicham_and others star productsMar 13 20:14
schestowitzEffort is devised/used by govts to suppress groupings tooMar 13 20:14
Omar87Guys, ya know something?Mar 13 20:14
schestowitzDaemonising them sometimesMar 13 20:14
schestowitzThis way, asking for change becomes too hardMar 13 20:14
schestowitzBut all changes likle end of racism or sexism came through organisingMar 13 20:15
Omar87 I personally think that Ubuntu has pwned Windoze a loooo..oong time ago.Mar 13 20:15
schestowitzSome blood was spilled (of those who organised)Mar 13 20:15
_Hicham_Omar87: not yetMar 13 20:15
schestowitzSo anyway, GNU or LUGs are organisationsMar 13 20:15
schestowitzLUGs file group complaints sometimesMar 13 20:15
schestowitzThat's why they are powerfulMar 13 20:15
schestowitzEFF...Mar 13 20:15
Omar87Can't you see? It has achieved in two years, what MS has failed to achieve in a whole decade. :)Mar 13 20:16
schestowitzOmar87: no, Microsoft clogs up the systemMar 13 20:16
schestowitzIn Jordan tooMar 13 20:16
schestowitzThey have people who turn it into 'client state'Mar 13 20:16
schestowitzSo that colleges give 'free' Office trainingMar 13 20:16
schestowitzAnd maybe dump free copiesMar 13 20:16
schestowitzA responsible educator won't do thatMar 13 20:16
Omar87schestowitz: You meant especially in Jordan.Mar 13 20:16
schestowitzBut Microsoft uses dinners/lunch/favours/money/whatever to charm people.Mar 13 20:17
schestowitzThat's just how it worksMar 13 20:17
_Hicham_personally I don't help people with OfficeMar 13 20:17
schestowitzAnd they build a stranglehold on the 'system' (educatioal in thuis case)Mar 13 20:17
_Hicham_I advise them to use OpenOffice.orgMar 13 20:17
schestowitzSo you must break down their strctures of cronyism first)Mar 13 20:17
Omar87_Hicham_: Same here.Mar 13 20:17
schestowitzExpose them, demote themMar 13 20:17
schestowitzShow who they areMar 13 20:17
schestowitzWho they serveMar 13 20:17
schestowitzThe LUG can do itMar 13 20:17
schestowitzJUST can investigate and write lettersMar 13 20:18
Omar87_Hicham_: Every time someone asks me how to solve a problem with windoze, I directly say: "Use Linux". :)Mar 13 20:18
schestowitzOmar87: that's decentMar 13 20:18
schestowitzOthers do it tooMar 13 20:18
schestowitzOr...Mar 13 20:18
schestowitzI'd help you if you move to Free softwareMar 13 20:18
schestowitzIf Micfrosoftg s/w breaks...Mar 13 20:19
schestowitzThen they need to fix itMar 13 20:19
schestowitzIts their faultMar 13 20:19
_Hicham_a professor asked us to give him a homework in PDF format. The students asked me what will produce PDFs from Word : I told them : OpenOffice will create and even modify PDFsMar 13 20:19
schestowitzYou're not their support guyMar 13 20:19
schestowitzThey already have billions that they made through crimeMar 13 20:19
Omar87Yes.Mar 13 20:19
schestowitzWith bad systemsMar 13 20:19
schestowitzBad engineeringMar 13 20:19
schestowitzThey rely on 'free' supportMar 13 20:19
schestowitzPeople 'fixing' virusesMar 13 20:19
schestowitzPeople 'fixing' by reinstalling WIndowsMar 13 20:20
schestowitzRather than GNU/LinuxMar 13 20:20
_Hicham_Roy : what do u think if websites stop supporting IE?Mar 13 20:20
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schestowitzAnd I bet you they obstruct dual-booting in OEMs where you areMar 13 20:20
schestowitzDual-booting = same cost as Windows-onlyMar 13 20:20
schestowitzI.e. added valueMar 13 20:20
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't allow it thoughMar 13 20:20
schestowitzStrangulation, EULAs, etc.Mar 13 20:20
schestowitzThat ought to be illegalMar 13 20:21
schestowitzMicrosoft was taken to courtMar 13 20:21
schestowitzIt bribed its way outMar 13 20:21
schestowitzAnd it hasn't even paid what it promiseMar 13 20:21
schestowitzE.g. in Californian schoolsMar 13 20:21
schestowitzMicrosoft still owes a lot of  monet in fineMar 13 20:21
schestowitzIt also evades taxMar 13 20:21
schestowitzAnd it's entering debtMar 13 20:21
schestowitzSo the public may never see this money that Microsoft stole through crime and price-fixingMar 13 20:22
schestowitzWhich pretty much sums up the reason the American ecnomy is in its current shapeMar 13 20:22
schestowitzNo regulationMar 13 20:22
schestowitzClowns running the DOJ, FTC, and SECMar 13 20:22
Omar87schestowitz: Where can one find the truths about Gates spending a couple billions to improve schools and education? Because personally I don't buy any of the crap I've heard about it.. -_-Mar 13 20:23
_Hicham_Omar87: where do u live?Mar 13 20:24
Omar87_Hicham_: Jordan, but I'm kind of interested in proving that Gates is such a user, backstabber, and an a&^hole.Mar 13 20:26
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schestowitzOmar87: you can find a lot about Gates 'improving' things (for gains)Mar 13 20:27
schestowitzE.g. Mar 13 20:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/3...Mar 13 20:28
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_Hicham_Gates is just spying on peopleMar 13 20:28
_Hicham_I read that one of the basic windows libraries ( advapi32.dll ) is filled with spywareMar 13 20:29
_Hicham_you can't find a single program not using advapi32.dllMar 13 20:30
trmancoAdvertisment API 32 (dot) DLLMar 13 20:30
_Hicham_according to a british researcher, this library contains a secret "NSA Key"Mar 13 20:31
Omar87_Hicham_: What freaks you out even more is that there actually idiots out there who believe he even cares about what happens to the world.Mar 13 20:31
_Hicham_this was busted when a programmer forgotten to eliminate the debug strings in the dllMar 13 20:31
schestowitz_Hicham_: no need for "according to"Mar 13 20:32
schestowitzThe back doors are factMar 13 20:32
Omar87_Hicham_: That's nothing new, they've clearly stated it in their EULA.Mar 13 20:32
schestowitzgartner and MS got together and confessed over a year agoMar 13 20:32
schestowitzAlso see http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04...Mar 13 20:32
schestowitzOmar87: Microsoft is allowed to change your sw over the network at any timeMar 13 20:33
schestowitzIt's in the EULA indeedMar 13 20:33
Omar87schestowitz: Yeah.Mar 13 20:33
schestowitzSlated ( [H]omer_ ) has this: http://slated.org/windows_xp...Mar 13 20:34
schestowitzFeel free to share with peopleMar 13 20:34
schestowitzSo that they know what they agree to cope with whenever they 'buy' (read: forced to buy) WindowsMar 13 20:34
Omar87schestowitz: And remember, you're the one who gave them the permission to do that, by agreeing to their EULA when buying windoze, in the first place.Mar 13 20:34
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schestowitzBBC zombie caper slammed by security pros < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... >Mar 13 20:35
_Hicham_Roy : how wine accomplished binary compatibility with Windows without infringing the EULA?Mar 13 20:38
Omar87schestowitz: By "you're", I meant the end-user in general of course. Don't get me wrong. ;)Mar 13 20:38
schestowitzArrrrr... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/13/sw...Mar 13 20:38
schestowitzOmar87: yes, I know.Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz_Hicham_: they might infringe, I thinkMar 13 20:39
schestowitzBut the EULA may be against the lawMar 13 20:39
schestowitzIt was never upheld or challenged in courtMar 13 20:39
schestowitzIt's seen as legally dubious in the UKMar 13 20:39
_Hicham_Roy : why MS didn't sue them then?Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz_Hicham_: stirring up troibleMar 13 20:40
schestowitzSue who|?Mar 13 20:40
schestowitzWhich company?Mar 13 20:40
schestowitzIt's codeMar 13 20:40
Omar87schestowitz: Yes, which makes things even worse for the end-user.Mar 13 20:40
schestowitzWhen companies grow big, they become the lawMar 13 20:40
schestowitzAnd you must be rich to keep standing in court against themMar 13 20:40
_Hicham_Roy : sue the Wine developersMar 13 20:40
schestowitzBecause the legal system too is warpedMar 13 20:41
schestowitz_Hicham_: they won't go there.Mar 13 20:41
_Hicham_since they are disassembling WindowsMar 13 20:41
schestowitzUnless they want to due even faster than SCOMar 13 20:41
schestowitzThey already suffer from the attack on TomTOmMar 13 20:41
schestowitzThey do damage controll ATMMar 13 20:41
schestowitzSome people dump Windows because of htisMar 13 20:41
schestowitzAnd it shows how miserable Microsoft is (i.e. perception of fragility)Mar 13 20:42
_Hicham_the last thing I needed Windows for was my Webcam driverMar 13 20:42
_Hicham_but now it is officially in the kernelMar 13 20:42
schestowitzYou can buy Linux-compatible webcamsMar 13 20:43
schestowitzLet the ones that don't support Linux just rot awayMar 13 20:43
schestowitzEvolve or dieMar 13 20:43
schestowitzSome companies found this out the hard wayMar 13 20:43
_Hicham_Here in Morocco, there is no company that sells Linux LaptopsMar 13 20:43
_Hicham_Everything is for WindowsMar 13 20:44
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-168-48.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 13 20:44
_Hicham_even our professors use pirated softwareMar 13 20:44
_Hicham_a professor was teaching us Latex, and he gave us a pirated software, even if there is better open source alternativesMar 13 20:44
_Hicham_the software is WinEditMar 13 20:45
_Hicham_I found better ones, like the terrific TeXnicCenterMar 13 20:45
schestowitzI know people who use itMar 13 20:45
schestowitzI use Kate for LaTeXMar 13 20:45
_Hicham_and of course, WineFish on LinuxMar 13 20:45
schestowitzBut front ends like LyX are betterMar 13 20:45
_Hicham_LyX is not technically LaTeXMar 13 20:46
schestowitzHehe."Winefish"Mar 13 20:46
schestowitzNever heard of itMar 13 20:46
_Hicham_Really?Mar 13 20:46
schestowitzYesMar 13 20:46
tessier_LyX has been around for a LONG time.Mar 13 20:46
schestowitzSounds like an aquarium I'd love to drinkMar 13 20:46
tessier_I used it to write a couple of papers back in university around 1995.Mar 13 20:46
schestowitztessier: I've used Lyx since 2001Mar 13 20:47
schestowitzIt still gets betterMar 13 20:47
_Hicham_winefish is the most used on linux i thinkMar 13 20:47
schestowitzIn Mandriva it's a tickbox awayMar 13 20:47
schestowitztwitter: was it using qt back then?Mar 13 20:47
schestowitzhttp://winefish.berlios.de/Mar 13 20:47
schestowitzIs it linked to Schillix?Mar 13 20:48
_Hicham_i dont knowMar 13 20:48
schestowitzJoerg?Mar 13 20:48
schestowitzBerliOs at the bottomMar 13 20:48
schestowitzSolarisMar 13 20:48
_Hicham_it is a berlios projectMar 13 20:48
schestowitzNever mindMar 13 20:49
_Hicham_but it is greatMar 13 20:49
schestowitzIt's something elseMar 13 20:49
*amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 13 20:49
schestowitzSchillix is just hosted under something..Mar 13 20:49
schestowitzhttp://developer.berlios.de/...Mar 13 20:49
_Hicham_winefish with TeXlive is just terrificMar 13 20:50
_Hicham_super fastMar 13 20:50
schestowitzI'd hate to write tables without previewMar 13 20:50
schestowitzIn KDE it's really niceMar 13 20:50
_Hicham_Roy : it is not that necessary to previewMar 13 20:50
_Hicham_i used to think like thatMar 13 20:50
schestowitzWith Lyx, once you regen (with cache and all making it instant), well... KDE'sKonqueror senses changes to files and then reloads the preview in KPDFMar 13 20:51
_Hicham_but with latex, things are differentMar 13 20:51
schestowitzSo you get nice previews while you type in WYSIWYGMar 13 20:51
_Hicham_same thing in GNOMEMar 13 20:51
schestowitz_Hicham_: I don't descend to TeX much anymore. it's slowerMar 13 20:51
schestowitzI can do raw TeX blockss in LyX or exportMar 13 20:51
schestowitzI used to even edit .tex files by handMar 13 20:52
schestowitzOops.Mar 13 20:52
schestowitzI mean lyx fileMar 13 20:52
schestowitz*filesMar 13 20:52
_Hicham_but it is greatMar 13 20:52
schestowitzVery clean layout they have..Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_with tex, you focus on contentMar 13 20:52
_Hicham_not on the layoutMar 13 20:52


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