Bonum Certa Men Certa

Sleeping with Mono

Summary: Assorted items about Mono and Moonlight

NOVELL is promoting Microsoft through GNU/Linux (and Microsoft on Apple devices [1, 2]). The obsession with Mono and Moonlight is about making Microsoft (not necessarily the same as Windows) stronger and this new article from Dr. Dobbs shows what Novell does for proprietary software, leading to unrest. More in IRC (starts here):

Chips_B_Malroyyou might enjoy this thread: 03 22:31
Chips_B_MalroyTitled:  Resolved - need moonlight in 8.5Feb 03 22:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 03 22:33
Chips_B_Malroycomment number 10 says it all, as to why Moonlight in addition to the patents/legal/etc problems, is just no goodFeb 03 22:33
Chips_B_Malroyand why M$ with Miguel's (Novell) help, makes mono-moonlight a 2nd rate platformFeb 03 22:34
Chips_B_Malroyor should I say, a M$ trojanFeb 03 22:34
balzacWell, I suppose I don't need to worry about brand loyalty with asusFeb 03 22:36
balzacdo we have any favored PC manufacturer's left?Feb 03 22:36
balzacwho sells notebooks without an OS?Feb 03 22:36
Chips_B_MalroyMS and Miguel know full well that mono-moonlight is incapable of playing Silverlight content from Netflix because of the ms drm thereFeb 03 22:36
balzacI may go for a lenovo for my next notebookFeb 03 22:36
oiaohmIntel proved it possible to force MS to give over silverlight for Linux.Feb 03 22:36
oiaohmSo really why bother with moonlightFeb 03 22:37
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> yes, right as almost alwaysFeb 03 22:37
oiaohmI am supprised people are not more up in arms that intel can get real silverlight for Linux yet most others cannot.Feb 03 22:38
Chips_B_Malroy<oiaohm> So really why bother with moonlight?"   For me, never, I was just passing on the post, as I thought it might be of interest here.  The point I like to make is how useless moonlight isFeb 03 22:38
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> if Intel can get it, at some point someone well get the flash dump of it, and hack it.  And it will end up in a repo in some part of the world they cannot sue.Feb 03 22:39
oiaohmIf MS is truly wanting to make it a platform should they not be releasing it to all directly? Feb 03 22:40
oiaohmIe not giving different parties specal treatment.Feb 03 22:40
Chips_B_MalroyIf moonlight is useless, and it is, then Mono is too.  As Moonlight is supposedly the killer app.Feb 03 22:40
oiaohmProblem for Moonlight and Flash is more and more html5 is picking up what they are aimed at doing.Feb 03 22:41
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> the point that is made here that MS does not release Silverlight for Linux directly because they want Mono-Moonlight so as to be substandard.Feb 03 22:41
Chips_B_Malroywhich is a true statementFeb 03 22:42
oiaohmFor what reason.Feb 03 22:42
oiaohmEither to destory Linux or to be able to destory Novell after it built the market.  Or bothFeb 03 22:42
Chips_B_MalroySo Windows will do everything silverlight that Linux-mono-moonlight cannot, like play netflixFeb 03 22:42
oiaohmI more take the line of both.Feb 03 22:43
Chips_B_Malroyyes, both probablyFeb 03 22:43
oiaohmI know of very few companies that have made deals with MS and walked away in good condition.Feb 03 22:43
Chips_B_Malroybut the fact that moonlight cannot, and most likely never will be able to legally play the MS DRM licencing in the Netflix Silverlight videos, means something.  And it should be taken to the front of the debate.Feb 03 22:44
Chips_B_MalroyMoonlight is uselessFeb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroytherefore mono is tooFeb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroythe one thing users want it to do it cannotFeb 03 22:45
oiaohmIf you really understand how the Linux kernel works you can see major problems with all JIT language designs.Feb 03 22:45
Chips_B_Malroywhich is beyond me most likelyFeb 03 22:46
oiaohmPeople forget that Linux kernel does GC on a process by process base.Feb 03 22:46
oiaohmSo all the talk about GC giving safety is mostly crap.Feb 03 22:47
oiaohmIe since mono containes a GC it safe....Feb 03 22:47
oiaohmMulti process application that in a lot of cases runs faster than mono is also as safe.Feb 03 22:47
Chips_B_MalroyWell, I am not a fan of Netflix or Blockbuster.  Feb 03 22:47
Chips_B_MalroyBut I expect that Silverlight for Linux on Intel will get pawned.Feb 03 22:48
Chips_B_MalroyBecause MS has basically paid off both Netflix and Blockbuster to use their patented Silverlight techFeb 03 22:49
Chips_B_MalroyWill it be legal?  noFeb 03 22:51
Chips_B_Malroymaybe in some parts of the world, maybeFeb 03 22:51
oiaohmReally hope MS does.Feb 03 22:52
oiaohmIntel is not past sueing MS ass off.Feb 03 22:52
Chips_B_Malroymyself I don't want SilverlightFeb 03 22:52
oiaohmNeither do IFeb 03 22:52
oiaohmBut I would like an another interesting court case against MS.Feb 03 22:53
Chips_B_MalroyI can find what I want with other meansFeb 03 22:53
Chips_B_MalroyBut I do believe that M$ is trying to drive demand for Silverlight with Netflix and Blockbuster.  Using both of these two, is creating another monopoly in the USA, as they are the biggest two in this market for most users here.Feb 03 22:54
Chips_B_MalroyBlockbuster, correction, I know it uses Net and MS DRM, but it never says where I can see that it uses Silverlight, but I believe it doesFeb 03 22:55
*FurnaceBoy ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 03 22:56
Chips_B_Malroycomment number #10 from the link:  "No drm so it doesn't work on something you would want it for like netflix."Feb 03 22:57
schestowitzThanksFeb 03 22:57
schestowitzI'll mentioned this tomorrowFeb 03 22:57
schestowitzThere's related news....Feb 03 22:58
Chips_B_MalroyThe dirty little secret of Mono-Moonlight is, its never going do what you want it to really do.Feb 03 22:58
schestowitzLinux Tablet from Google Coming BTW ....... \0/Feb 03 22:58
schestowitzMicrosoft sill in the pits,1000001161,40018130-39001096c-20106869o,00.htmFeb 03 22:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How many more times? - Conficker worm disrupts Manchester police systems - Talkback at ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 86.38 KBFeb 03 22:58
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: one of the dirty secrets :)Feb 03 22:58
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: wow. when will they wake up. :-(Feb 03 22:58
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: but Microsoft can tell regulators it plays "nice" with LinuxFeb 03 22:58
schestowitzThat's what the deal with Novell was partly aboutFeb 03 22:58
Chips_B_MalroyFurnaceBoy> yes, heheFeb 03 22:59
schestowitzPretence of support and fair play... with SOFTWARE patentsFeb 03 22:59
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: did you see Bugliosi on YouTube calling for Bush prosecution?Feb 03 22:59
Chips_B_MalroySo, MS needs to come even more clean than just its community promise not to sue Linux.  It needs to also open source its DRM, if users want to play Netflix Silverlight.Feb 03 23:00
*gargoyle-grin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)Feb 03 23:00
oiaohmChips_B_Malroy: the community promise is time limitedFeb 03 23:00
MinceRactually they need to start providing proper patent licensesFeb 03 23:00
oiaohmOr is complete crap. Chips_B_MalroyFeb 03 23:01
oiaohmIe only covering programmers who don't get paid.Feb 03 23:01
MinceRones that apply to everyone, are free of charge, and don't have a time limitFeb 03 23:01
Chips_B_Malroyyou right on both oiaohmFeb 03 23:01
MinceRto the entirety of .net/monoFeb 03 23:01
oiaohmthat is a major problem in the Linux world on adverage over 75 percent of programers are paid to build stuff.Feb 03 23:01
MinceRuntil they do that, they're only screwing around, looking for gullible marks they can screw withFeb 03 23:01
oiaohmIf they want to keep the DRM closed source that is there business.Feb 03 23:02
oiaohmBut not being prepared to say we will not attack open source is not good.Feb 03 23:03
Chips_B_Malroythey are trying to put out a product (moonlight) that is defective by design.  Because Miguel and MS already know that the quality Silverlight videos from Netflix contain MS DRM that Moonlight cannot legally play.Feb 03 23:03

Microsoft MVP Miguel de Icaza is referenced with glee by the 'Microsoft press', which was promoting Silver Lie on Monday:

The response in the developer community to the Silverlight release has been almost universally positive. Miguel de Icaza, vice president of developer platforms at Novell and head of the open source Mono Project, called Silverlight 4 "a case of doing the right thing for users and developers" in a blog post soon after the release. "There are many other great features in Silverlight 4, but none as important as Silverlight becoming a universal runtime for the CLR. This is a revolution," de Icaza wrote.

Why does he not simply join Microsoft? He already works for them part time and the creature he created (Mono) is entering the GNU/Linux desktop, ushered by articles like this new one from ECT. People don't even realise that they are using Mono, so it's like a diseases that's growing quietly inside the body of the Free destkop. It is still being promoted by Ryan Paul, who is also promoting an FSF-hostile article from his new colleague, Zonker. This is not good.

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