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| schestowitz | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world... | Apr 14 08:34 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Microsoft goes black, making Chinese see red | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://news.theage.com.au/technol... | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft anti-piracy tactic turns computer screens black | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/... | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Tactic Raises Hackles in China | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1224... | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft sued over anti-piracy activity | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2... | Apr 14 08:34 |
| kentma | mornin' all | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Howdy, kentma | Apr 14 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, read about that | Apr 14 08:35 |
| kentma | how're things in manc? | Apr 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | Big Microsoft partners collapse too: Infosys fires 2,100 < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/20... > | Apr 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | kentma: all right so far. Fun Easter | Apr 14 08:36 |
| kentma | wow - tough times... | Apr 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | Even in India... | Apr 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | MS is mass-closing units. http://www.youtube.com/wa... | Apr 14 08:36 |
| kentma | Recession is a nasty thing, big human cost. ohh - I'll look at that... | Apr 14 08:37 |
| kentma | hmm, just seen the Uniloc patent result. | Apr 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Linus et al can escape Portland in case they need to maintain development outside chaotic places. Linus did work over the Internet from Helsinki... and Cox up north | Apr 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | kentma: recession is an understatment | Apr 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | It assume thinks revert back to normal | Apr 14 08:38 |
| kentma | Isn't A Cox a Welshman? | Apr 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | *assumes things | Apr 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | kentma: yes | Apr 14 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | well, Microsoft of course pushes FOR stiffer patent laws | Apr 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | North of Europe | Apr 14 08:38 |
| kentma | schestowitz: yes, it's nasty nasty. I note that unemployment in Manc has almost doubled this year. | Apr 14 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | I guess they never thought they'd get bit in the ass | Apr 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | kentma: what's the definition for it? | Apr 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | Has it changed like in America? | Apr 14 08:39 |
| kentma | schestowitz: this is based on the number of people claiming "job seekers' allowance" | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: they don't develop products | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | In 2007 they began heavy patent-filing | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | Now they have 10k patents | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | Good just for scaring companies like TomTOm | Apr 14 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: US government admitted 683,000 net job losses last month | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | Like SCO putting up "indemnification" page for sales | Apr 14 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't tell you what kind of jobs (McDonalds) replaced them (Walmart) | Apr 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | Same signs | Apr 14 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise it looks a LOT worse | Apr 14 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Apr 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: WalMart will be like the "Red"-branded product in China. | Apr 14 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | 683,000 is AFTER they cook the numbers with every trick in the book | Apr 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | It's not 683k | Apr 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | It's a lot more | Apr 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | They lowball it | Apr 14 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I said | Apr 14 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | they cooked the numbers | Apr 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | No way! :-o | Apr 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | Why would they do such a thing | Apr 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | And MS says only 4% of netbooks run Linux | Apr 14 08:41 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: I found out recently how the US Gov calculates growth - basically, it guesses and always guesses on the high side, whereas several EU govs use actual figures, which appear lower, but when measured over several years, US growth rate has been behind EU... fascinating exercise in stats. | Apr 14 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | unemployment right now, if you look at the real picture are more like 15-20% depending on where you are in the US | Apr 14 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | and underemployment adds to that | Apr 14 08:42 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: Unemp figures here are hard to understand because so many people are now excluded from the figures - this is a hangover from the Thatcher gov. | Apr 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | Even reporting of quarterly earning changed overt the years to generate optimism. I read about it. | Apr 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | This means that companies like Microsoft did not always beat previous quarters | Apr 14 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | right, the US government puts lipstick on it so that foreign banks don't panic sell all our currency | Apr 14 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | and freeze our credit lines | Apr 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: was 14% in 2008 IIRC | Apr 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | Great Depression peaked at 25%, IIRC | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | no, higher | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | it got over 30% | Apr 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | So it's not far off, but they changed how they count | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | in 1932 I think | Apr 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: check Wikipedia | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | then it started coming back down | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Apr 14 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | Wikipedia | Apr 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | The problem will come about later | Apr 14 08:44 |
| *DaemonFC edits it to say 30% in 1932 | Apr 14 08:44 | |
| schestowitz | When the big nations dump the dollar | Apr 14 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | yep, I was right | Apr 14 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Then, Wall Street will tumble | Apr 14 08:44 |
| *kentma laughs | Apr 14 08:44 | |
| DaemonFC | I really don't care | Apr 14 08:44 |
| schestowitz | They can't afford to have the USD become another Rubel | Apr 14 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | that's a good thing | Apr 14 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | it'll be painful, but hopefully this government becomes insolvent and collapses | Apr 14 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | and we can set up a new constitutional convention | Apr 14 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | and form a new one :) | Apr 14 08:45 |
| schestowitz | *ruble | Apr 14 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Sometimes the only way to fix something is to tear it down | Apr 14 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | and rebuild | Apr 14 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | and I think thats where our government is | Apr 14 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | they're too well dug in to get rid of through insurgency or coup | Apr 14 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | so that's why I hope our ecomony fails | Apr 14 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | *economy | Apr 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | On Kendall Dawson: "He does a good job and has not gone over to the dark side. Unfortunately that means that trolls constantly make written personal attacks against him. I also recall that when Slashdot was working on its 10-year celebration, there were a lot of posts from the trolls advocating physical violence against him. " | Apr 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | Kendall Dawson=kdawson, /. editor | Apr 14 08:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: easier said than done | Apr 14 08:48 |
| schestowitz | You lose competitiveness in the process | Apr 14 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has a lot of meat puppets patrolling blogs and youtube | Apr 14 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | and if it's not them, it's some horribly brainwashed suck up | Apr 14 08:48 |
| schestowitz | MS partners | Apr 14 08:49 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes... | Apr 14 08:49 |
| kentma | hmm just seen the netcraft article - it seems somehow relevant. How far can stats be twisted? | Apr 14 08:49 |
| schestowitz | They have lots of dependents | Apr 14 08:49 |
| schestowitz | Destruction of MSFT can mean destruction of millions of jobs | Apr 14 08:49 |
| schestowitz | Around the world that is. But it's mostly relearning and education. Some losses are indirect (channel sellers for Microsoft|Oracle|others) | Apr 14 08:50 |
| schestowitz | BSA is a front to many | Apr 14 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Bill Gates' dad's people.... | Apr 14 08:50 |
| schestowitz | kentma: some say Microsoft is really under 20% | Apr 14 08:51 |
| schestowitz | They go to hosts and offer the shift of parked domain | Apr 14 08:51 |
| schestowitz | Then they can brag about gaining in Netcraft and make sales/business case. It's self-fulfillung prophecy | Apr 14 08:51 |
| kentma | Consider the massive global project currently underway, though - which is the replacement of Windows with Linux-based systems. This is going to create huge numbers of job opportunities, both in the developed world for the changeout, retraining of staff and so on, as well as in the developing world where this technology will become affordable *without* violating copyright. | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | Fake growth, try to then use it to make it so. Zune and Silver Lie are example where it failed | Apr 14 08:52 |
| kentma | schestowitz: indeed, I was just reading the LT references in the digest - you posted this a couple of days ago. | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | They try it now on sub-notebooks. They try to scare OEMs using fake figures | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | They used NPD to lie about tZune like this too | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | they stuff the channel and sample at stuffed shops momentarily | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | Then make lots of press. IDG helped them a lot with this slog | Apr 14 08:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft buddies (personal relationship) like Shane O'Neill seed it and then peers parrot the lies | Apr 14 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | "Link0ot has made a comment on Windows 7- My thoughts: | Apr 14 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | LOL you noob! Reinstalling Windows 7 three times? haha. BSODs 9 times? You are obviously a windows noob. Stick with your crappy Linux. | Apr 14 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | Only noob and windows illiterate have issue. Oh the way, Windows 7 is still in beta, noob!!" | Apr 14 08:53 |
| schestowitz | kentma: "This really is remarkable. You really need to look at it closely, particularly this sentence: Fifty percent of those surveyed by Dimensional Research said they've considered switching to a non-Windows OS to avoid Vista or Windows 7. " http://www.informationweek.com/news/wind... | Apr 14 08:53 |
| schestowitz | I got it by E-mail this morning. | Apr 14 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | oh my god, he said "illiterate" and spelled it right | Apr 14 08:54 |
| kentma | schestowitz: the whole system is completely corrupt. It's hardly surprising we've just suffered a stock-market crash, really. | Apr 14 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | irony? | Apr 14 08:54 |
| *kentma looks | Apr 14 08:54 | |
| schestowitz | kentma: I've always had many equestion about it | Apr 14 08:54 |
| schestowitz | The integrity of a system too good to be true | Apr 14 08:55 |
| schestowitz | And some people can now brag about saying this for ages... intellectuals mostly | Apr 14 08:55 |
| schestowitz | Money does not grow on trees unless the fairies come there at night and plants it on the branches | Apr 14 08:55 |
| kentma | the people trousering cash at the time will always argue hotly against this, though, since this is how they get their money. | Apr 14 08:55 |
| schestowitz | Thank goodness I (or my family) have no loans to pay | Apr 14 08:56 |
| kentma | I've got a mortgage, but nothing else. | Apr 14 08:56 |
| kentma | I'm not a believer in being in debt. | Apr 14 08:56 |
| schestowitz | Average debt per UK person: GBP50 | Apr 14 08:56 |
| schestowitz | 50k | Apr 14 08:57 |
| schestowitz | Including old men, babies, temps, soldiers | Apr 14 08:57 |
| kentma | That's high, considering average salaries... | Apr 14 08:57 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but not quite all of the story | Apr 14 08:57 |
| schestowitz | When unemployment rises and market caps of assets like BP decline, then it's hard to liquefy and pay back. | Apr 14 08:58 |
| schestowitz | See how the value of Citi sank | Apr 14 08:58 |
| kentma | The biggest risk is in the pension funds... | Apr 14 08:58 |
| schestowitz | Ripe for pickup by CHinese businessmen... but... I just don't think they are even interested | Apr 14 08:58 |
| schestowitz | China must be the world's largest exporter | Apr 14 08:58 |
| kentma | pension funds are some of the biggest investors on the stock market, they "pay" a big chunk of society (the retired), and their worth is falling with the market. | Apr 14 08:59 |
| kentma | The InfWeek article is damning. | Apr 14 08:59 |
| kentma | But not surprising. | Apr 14 08:59 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mbtmag.com/articleXml/LN... "US Linux operating systems integrator Red Hat (NYSE: RHT) has appointed Pablo Papazian as sales executive and Guido Ipszman as sales manager at the company's South American unit, Red Hat said in a statement." | Apr 14 08:59 |
| kentma | I expect that many companies will be looking at a rollout of netbooks for many staff this year. | Apr 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | kentma: I never heard of that firm before. | Apr 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft will counter by bribing its stageset | Apr 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | Forrester, IDC, etc | Apr 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | They ALWAYS do that | Apr 14 09:00 |
| kentma | I'm not sure how many people are believing them any more - the recession has woken up a lot of people. | Apr 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | In BN, I've led many people to disregard analysts like that | Apr 14 09:00 |
| kentma | Rightly so! | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | Doug picked up some evidence | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | And another person I can't name sent me pointers | Apr 14 09:01 |
| kentma | Oh? Interesting... is it anything which can be published? | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | IDC and Gartner bills... | Apr 14 09:01 |
| kentma | Ah... | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | I called it "Analyst Cartel" -- a 5-part series | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | It's very popular still.... not as much as the Intel-Microsoft anti-Linux | Apr 14 09:01 |
| kentma | Hehe - excellent - anyway, must get on with work - happy easter & speak soon. | Apr 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | Thanks./ | Apr 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | kentma: it's already published BTW | Apr 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | I just don't put this in COLA | Apr 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | Leading to accusation of 'self promotion' from Microsoft's policemen in COLA | Apr 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | "The US owes Iraq 53 billion dollars for the oil it has been unable to sell since the conquest" http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-... | Apr 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | "Moldova is the poorest country of the Europe. A couple of days ago we had | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | elections. You could hear about it in the news, the Parliament and the | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | President's residence were burnt. The ruling Communist party blames the | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | opposition and the neighbor country Romania for this. Some claim that this | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | was staged by the Communist party itself - the same scenario used by Nazis | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | when they burnt the Reichstag." | Apr 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-j... | Apr 14 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: So we don't pay them? | Apr 14 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | The problem is solved on our end :P | Apr 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | It's like paying your debts at war | Apr 14 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | or better yet, we could say that we'll apply it towards what they owe us | Apr 14 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | And later Bush asks, "why do they hate us?" | Apr 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Rumsfeld et al know very well the answer | Apr 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | But they don't tell him | Apr 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | he asked it in Sept. 13th, 2001 BTW | Apr 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | A lot of the Bush cabinet armed the Moujahadin (Spelling) and offered them training to shoot Russuan tanks with Stingers | Apr 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | That is also why Osama, coming from a veyr wealthy family, was disgusted and appalled almost 2 decades ago. The US used Afghanistan as cannon fodder. | Apr 14 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | well, more of them would have died without us | Apr 14 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | the Soviets would have taken them after killing many more people | Apr 14 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | the truth is they used us just as much as we used them | Apr 14 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | and the Taliban took over later and they got what they wanted | Apr 14 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | a Muslim theocracy | Apr 14 09:11 |
| schestowitz | [corp-focus] No Blank Check for the IMF < http://lists.essential.org/pipermail... > | Apr 14 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | the reason they hate Americans is the same reason they hated the Soviets | Apr 14 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | or anyone that's not Muslim | Apr 14 09:12 |
| schestowitz | BTW, 40% if the USian military busget is black.. unknown... no access even to the Senate | Apr 14 09:12 |
| schestowitz | Since project Manhattan (scheme to nuke opponents) | Apr 14 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | if they were ever powerful enough to wipe us out, they'd come after everyone else that's not Muslim next | Apr 14 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | don't think they like you any better | Apr 14 09:12 |
| schestowitz | Aggravation didn't help, either | Apr 14 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | It shocks me that so-called LIBERALS defend such an illiberal undemocratic people | Apr 14 09:13 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: nobody has ever successfully invaded Afganistan. | Apr 14 09:13 |
| schestowitz | The threat increased sevenfold after the Iraq invasion | Apr 14 09:13 |
| schestowitz | It's not just threat to the US | Apr 14 09:13 |
| schestowitz | The US put a lot of its neighbouring countries and allies at risk too | Apr 14 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | I consider myself a liberal, but even I really don't like those people | Apr 14 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | and I'm not going to defend someone that wants to kill me | Apr 14 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | just cause I won't convert to their sick religion | Apr 14 09:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: if your theory is true about Islam, then how come early in the century there was hardly a problem? | Apr 14 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | are you kidding me? | Apr 14 09:14 |
| schestowitz | EVEN WITHOUT surveillance and foreign military bases. | Apr 14 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | The Ottoman Empire | Apr 14 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | World War 1? | Apr 14 09:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the religious justification comes AFTER the technical one | Apr 14 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | if they were equipped and prepared to murder all non-muslims and anyone "less Muslim" than they are | Apr 14 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | they would do it | Apr 14 09:15 |
| schestowitz | Like, I might sidle with Linux /because/. Microsoft injured me (or someone else like Ernie Ball) | Apr 14 09:15 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: Steady here, Islam is not sick. Aside from anything else, Islam itself is not anti-Christian. Christianity has always been anti-Islam, though. | Apr 14 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | The partitioning of the middle east after WW1 into Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Israel, etc was the right thing to do | Apr 14 09:15 |
| schestowitz | The world's biggest atrocities have nothing to do with religion BTW | Apr 14 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | it keeps them at each others throats | Apr 14 09:15 |
| schestowitz | Congo, WW2... not a religious war | Apr 14 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | that was the point | Apr 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | OK | Apr 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | It's usually water, territory, despration | Apr 14 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | kentma: The Christians and Muslims are both pretty hateful and sick | Apr 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | Religious is used for labelling | Apr 14 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | and I consider both my enemy | Apr 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | "Them" vs "Us" | Apr 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | *Religionv(typo) | Apr 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | It's not a religious thing | Apr 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | Maybe geographical and geo-political | Apr 14 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | but the funny thing is that in Israel, they are not murdering homosexuals like the arabs do | Apr 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | One exploits others sometimes. | Apr 14 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | or like the Christians want to | Apr 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | People are not as stupid as the imperialists need to believe | Apr 14 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | they have equal rights to anyone else | Apr 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | The Indian troops that Britain recruited too turned against them | Apr 14 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | so I'd say if any of them, I like the Jews more | Apr 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | Because they knew they were being misued and exploited | Apr 14 09:18 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: I understand what you're driving at, and have considerable sympathy with your view. But I would point out that both christianity and islam share one very important thing, that is, that they are both made of and for people. It's the people who are the problem, where there are problems. | Apr 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: don't mix religion with groups | Apr 14 09:19 |
| kentma | I suspect that you have a general objection to authoritarian power structures, and overall, I tend to share your objection. | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | Think of tech | Apr 14 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | kentma: The Nazis and the Muslims had one thing in common, they wanted to kill all Jews and all homosexuals | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | The 'Microsoft sect' | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | It's not a religion | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | But it is like one | Apr 14 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's why the Nazis got along with the Muslims so well during the war | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | Cause they share vested interests | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | Same with FOSS to an extent | Apr 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | Apple and fanboiz | Apr 14 09:19 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: Okay, but nazi != german, and I'm 100% certain that not all Muslims want to kill anyone at all. | Apr 14 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | but had the Axis won either WW1 or WW2, the fascists and the Muslims would have turned on each other | Apr 14 09:20 |
| schestowitz | Islam is not violent | Apr 14 09:20 |
| schestowitz | There are billions of Muslims | Apr 14 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | it was an alliance of convenience | Apr 14 09:20 |
| schestowitz | A tiny minority is shown on Fox news for example | Apr 14 09:20 |
| schestowitz | I have Arab friends and it's insulting that they are characterise just to promote (party) lines | Apr 14 09:20 |
| schestowitz | If you treat them badly, how can you expect them not to behave reciprocally? | Apr 14 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: There's a US Congressman from here (Indiana) who is a Muslim and has co-sponsored gay rights bills, but I'm sure most Muslims would kill HIM | Apr 14 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | just for that | Apr 14 09:21 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: there were lots of alliances of convenience in WW2, including UK with Russia, UK with China etc. etc. | Apr 14 09:21 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Christians too | Apr 14 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | I really feel like we lost World War 2 as soon as we provoked the Japanese | Apr 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Adherence to religion in general | Apr 14 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | even though we technically won | Apr 14 09:22 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: there are a lot of muslims around, and whilst a few might well be violent, I'm quite sure that most are not, towards anyone. | Apr 14 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | they were at war with the Communist forces in China | Apr 14 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | so had we not provoked them maybe they would have solved that problem | Apr 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | What China does by the way is not very different from te rest of the world today | Apr 14 09:23 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: okay, but I think you should consider who "they" are in these situations. Even in ww2, very few countries were affected completely. | Apr 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | They just hide it less | Apr 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | media control = corporate control vs walls of censorship | Apr 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Snoops and centralised databases (UK) versus eavesdropping in China | Apr 14 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | well, when I say that a religion is violent, 10% of them may not be | Apr 14 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | but on the whole, most are | Apr 14 09:24 |
| kentma | The US has just announced the closure of its global ring of torture centres, for example. | Apr 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | Suppression of speech versus implicit censorship | Apr 14 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | so while there may be non-radical factions, that does not excuse the group | Apr 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | They block" democracy", whereas people here PRETEND to have it | Apr 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | kentma: maybe there was one here in Manc | Apr 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | They have some interrogation cells (secret) in US airports | Apr 14 09:25 |
| kentma | schestowitz: gosh, scary thought. | Apr 14 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | you can't hate a group of people and instill that hate, then try to distance yourself when your followers pick up knives and swords and guns and bombs | Apr 14 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | and go kill the people you taught them how to hate | Apr 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | kentma: not next door to Business Class Lounge: -) | Apr 14 09:25 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: most muslims are just not like that, though. There are clearly some, without doubt, but there are some people in almost any grouping who are disaffected in some way, and can become violent. | Apr 14 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | that's pretty much what Islam and Christianity are, when their followers act on that hate, the group disavows it | Apr 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: better a knife than hbomb | Apr 14 09:26 |
| kentma | schestowitz: I always wondered what the screams were whilst sitting in the loung at Heathrow - I though it was just the catering staff testing the aeroplane food :-) | Apr 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | The US is said to have spent $5tr on nuclear programmers in recent years. I couldn't verify the fact (from Professor emeritus) | Apr 14 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | The acts of Christian and Muslim atrocities are kind of the equal and opposite of the Nazi prison guards who "just followed orders" | Apr 14 09:27 |
| kentma | lounge, I mena. | Apr 14 09:27 |
| kentma | mean. Arggh! | Apr 14 09:27 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: there is no excusing them - about that I agree 100%, however, how many germans were Nazis? | Apr 14 09:27 |
| DaemonFC | "I just said they are an affront to God and they're filthy and disgusting, THEY went and blew them up, I didn't specifically SAY to do THAT" | Apr 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | kentma: *LOL* I actually like food on planes | Apr 14 09:27 |
| DaemonFC | that's what preachers and clerics say | Apr 14 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | right after that shit goes down | Apr 14 09:28 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 14 09:28 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: there are clearly some radical preacher types who are dangerous and objectionable, and clearly deliberately trying to cause problems. | Apr 14 09:28 |
| schestowitz | Hungarian government boosts open sauce < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... > | Apr 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | kentma: Galloway? :-D | Apr 14 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | The preachers that say that are like the Nazis in the Nuremburg trials if they had said "We just said that your Jewish neighbors are greedy and covetous and stealing all your shit, and the people under our command went and shot them" | Apr 14 09:29 |
| kentma | schestowitz: oh yeah, MP for Bagdad central :-) | Apr 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | I like the attitude of this guy: | Apr 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Software | Apr 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Hungarian government boosts open sauce | Apr 14 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | How many people would go for that line THEN? | Apr 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Oops. I like the attitude of this guy: http://www.youtube.com/results... | Apr 14 09:30 |
| MinceR | geekings | Apr 14 09:30 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: A lot of people are easily led, for sure. I don't know how much psychology you've studied, but you should look at the "stanford prison experiment" - it's quite fascinating, and shows how this sort of thing works. | Apr 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | The MPAA is committing crimes now: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... | Apr 14 09:31 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sta... | Apr 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | kentma: that experiment is on YouTube BTW | Apr 14 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | kentma: I've seen that | Apr 14 09:32 |
| kentma | schestowitz: really? I did subsid psychology as part of my degree, this was one thing we looked at. It's quite terrifying, really. | Apr 14 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | that's also too unethical to be a "scientific" experiment | Apr 14 09:32 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: ah, okay, then you know... | Apr 14 09:32 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: unethical? Not sure I see that. | Apr 14 09:32 |
| schestowitz | I notice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford... | Apr 14 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Apr 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | kentma: mind is stil primitive | Apr 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Inherent animal instricts can erupt | Apr 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | *instincts | Apr 14 09:33 |
| kentma | schestowitz: social pressures are very strong - we're still monkeys, deep down. | Apr 14 09:33 |
| kentma | or apes or something. | Apr 14 09:34 |
| kentma | something Darwin said, anyway :-) | Apr 14 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Freud too | Apr 14 09:34 |
| ushimitsudoki | that's also too unethical to be a "scientific" experiment <- this makes no sense | Apr 14 09:34 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: yes, so we learn from them | Apr 14 09:34 |
| ushimitsudoki | exactly. ethics are a consideration independent of the validity of the experiment. | Apr 14 09:35 |
| ushimitsudoki | not to say i support un-ethical experiments or anything. just saying that the ethics of an experiments doesn't affect it's validity. | Apr 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Scientology meets science channels: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... | Apr 14 09:36 |
| kentma | ushimitsudoki: I agree. | Apr 14 09:36 |
| kentma | ushimitsudoki: this is one area where people find science rather scary, that it's conclusions and actions are purely based on rational consideration, independent of any moral framework. A very large number of "scifi-horror" stories are based on this perceived gap. Perhaps the first was Bram Stoker's Dracula. | Apr 14 09:37 |
| kentma | Even Grimm's Faery Tales follow similar paths, though. | Apr 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is usually PAYING to sign ad deals and then issues press releases. Digg is a good example. Digg is declining rapidly... let it rot with MSN.. | Apr 14 09:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | kentma: i agree; and I think ethics are important. I just bristle at the idea that ethical or moral "truths" can affect scientific "truths". down that path lies superstition and dogma, as you rightly point to ("There are some things man is not meant to know", etc.) | Apr 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | It probably went wrong because of spammers and competition | Apr 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | kentma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H... | Apr 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft’s sales of new software have taken a hefty hit from the economic downturn.." | Apr 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | Report due soon. | Apr 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | Q1 | Apr 14 09:43 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: room 101 was a terrifying idea. I re-read 1984 recently, it's an amazing book. My imagination does a better job than most films, to be honest:-) | Apr 14 09:44 |
| kentma | ushimitsudoki: I agree - superstition rapidly becomes dogma, and dogma is used for suppression of thinking. It's a nasty cycle. | Apr 14 09:46 |
| kentma | Incidentally, the police broke up a demonstration at a power plant *before it happened* today. This is very 1984 - we have thought police in action, it seems. | Apr 14 09:47 |
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| DaemonFC | Microsoft took the Halo trial version down | Apr 14 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | Download.com still has it, heh | Apr 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | I've just done a quick summary of Microsoft's decline: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/... | Apr 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: watch out for Infosys | Apr 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they'll wake up on time and harness Free software | Apr 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | kentma: yes, put the characters of your choice in. | Apr 14 09:57 |
| *zer0c00l looks | Apr 14 09:57 | |
| schestowitz | How would a girl feel watching a chap? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... It would be harder to relate | Apr 14 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, anyone know if the Halo 2 XP patch works for Wine? | Apr 14 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmmmm, | Apr 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | kentma: they spy on E-mail for this. Also in activists/groups | Apr 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | Search for something like "protest" or <venue_name> | Apr 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | kentma: did you know about the US base in Yorkshire | Apr 14 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: How do you like that? | Apr 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Turns out they have been keeping copies of mail for quite some time. UK mail. | Apr 14 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft tried saying all those games needed Vista | Apr 14 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | and they were hacked to pieces and running on 2000 and XP | Apr 14 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | within days | Apr 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Bull. | Apr 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Pressure | Apr 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | They still support w2k | Apr 14 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: C&C 3: Tiberium Wars REQUIRES Vista | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | You can take the horse to water, can't make it drink | Apr 14 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | but there's an unofficial patch | Apr 14 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | that lets it work on XP and 2K as well | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Old news | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | 2007ish | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | They sometimes use some INI file | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Silly artificial obstructions | Apr 14 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | no, they had to modify the EXE | Apr 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Apr 14 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | it was making bogus checks for Vista kernel functionality the game doesn't use | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | I can look up examples I gathered | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | It was almost 2 years ago | Apr 14 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | just to make sure it was really on Vista | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | Found in Digg IIRC | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | It's like "exclusives" | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | Which means "secrew the customers" | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | Kickbacks to promote certain choice through restriction thereof | Apr 14 10:01 |
| schestowitz | It should really be prohibited | Apr 14 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | They were desperate to sell Vista so they made perfectly 2000/XP compatible software not allow you to run it on 2000/XP | Apr 14 10:02 |
| DaemonFC | and paid their partners to do it too | Apr 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | Imagine if Renault signed a deal that said only their cars are allowed to enter Alton Park | Apr 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, that ought to have them fined | Apr 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | It's a h/w upgrade cartel | Apr 14 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: If they were actually using some killer new feature of Vista to make their game better, I could understand that | Apr 14 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | but this is just holding new software hostage | Apr 14 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | to force upgrades | Apr 14 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | I actually tried the DirectX 10 enhanced features of a lot of those games, that's only available on Vista, like Crysis, it has a XP mode and a Vista mode | Apr 14 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | the Enhanced mode doesn't look a lot better but it is much slower | Apr 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | DX10 can work on XP too | Apr 14 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | Why would you want to? | Apr 14 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | I turned the enhanced features off on Vista | Apr 14 10:05 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft artificially made upgrade differentiator. | Apr 14 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | cause they were such a performance drag | Apr 14 10:05 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I only used DX many years back as a teenager. | Apr 14 10:05 |
| schestowitz | DX is a Windows/games thing | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | Hollywood uses OpenGL | Apr 14 10:06 |
| DaemonFC | I remember when 3dfx stopped updating their drivers and I had JUST bought a Voodoo 5 5500 for Windows Me | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | In fact, anything but the Wingame world is apathetic t/w DX | Apr 14 10:06 |
| zer0c00l | "Microsoft's ASP.NET MVC is an extension built on the core of ASP.NET that brings some of the popular practices and ease of development that were popularized by Ruby on Rails and Django to the .NET developers." http://tirania.org/bl... | Apr 14 10:06 |
| DaemonFC | and DirectX 7 destroyed their driver | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: yes, Microsoft employees try to deceive us | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | They are desparate | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | So many years went by and .NET never won | Apr 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | Now we have Python, PHP, Java as Free software... | Apr 14 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | so the 3dfx users built a website with hacked drivers that worked well enough to use on ME/2000/XP | Apr 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | So Miguel and other Microsoft employees try to change this | Apr 14 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | not well, but they worked | Apr 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | Same story with Windows Mobile | Apr 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | Maybe billions in losses so far and over a decade later it's still nowhere | Apr 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | Some say 5% | Apr 14 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wish more of these companies would release their stuff as GPL or something before selling or going bankrupt | Apr 14 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | Glide was pretty superior to DirectX or OpenGL for games | Apr 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they sell the so-called "IP" to someone | Apr 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | "IP"=code | Apr 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Copyright | Apr 14 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... | Apr 14 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | memories *sigh* :P | Apr 14 10:09 |
| schestowitz | new distro: About ULTILEX < http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/ > | Apr 14 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | Glidos can still wrap DirectX and let you play Glide games by piping everything to DirectX | Apr 14 10:10 |
| DaemonFC | it works in Wine, but not well | Apr 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | OBAMAA is on a roll this year: Obama Taps 5th RIAA Lawyer to Justice Dept. < http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke... > | Apr 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | Update: VirtualBox 2.2.0 < http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com... > | Apr 14 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | how much you figure he got in campaign money? | Apr 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Employees Demonstrate Fondness For Google < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/... > | Apr 14 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | Not that I doubt they also gave campaign money to McCain | Apr 14 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | these special interests fund both sides | Apr 14 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | and threaten to cut off whoever defies them | Apr 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | Google market cap: 119.22B | Apr 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Biden more likely | Apr 14 10:13 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Imitation is the sincerest flattery :P | Apr 14 10:13 |
| DaemonFC | Windows live is being seriously whored in Windows 7 | Apr 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | People have this feeling that they own Obama | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | Like he's there puppy to save them from McBush | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | *their | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | "Anything but Bush" is not good | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | It's just "not as bad" | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, I heard about Microsoft pimping Live in Vista7 | Apr 14 10:14 |
| schestowitz | Regulators watch this closely | Apr 14 10:15 |
| schestowitz | And VIsta7 will only be sold with new PCs, i.e. very little | Apr 14 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | Well, then it becomes a bidding platform | Apr 14 10:15 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft already says it will offer DOWNGRADE RIGHTS for Vista7 | Apr 14 10:15 |
| schestowitz | It knows there will be trouble even a year ahead | Apr 14 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | Googles pays off HP or Dell to use Google Desktop and Google Search in IE | Apr 14 10:15 |
| schestowitz | MSFT's income might not be as bad this Q because of layoffs and closed down divisions | Apr 14 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | I don't agree with letting other things hook into the Search Applet | Apr 14 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | just means spyware and low quality crap can piggyback in | Apr 14 10:16 |
| schestowitz | The market is also afloat on borrowed/printed money at the moment | Apr 14 10:16 |
| schestowitz | Dow back above 8000pts because of the illusions | Apr 14 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | when you install DivX for example, you now have Google Search clobber Windows Search | Apr 14 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | cause it piggybacked in | Apr 14 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Good for Wall Street (the looting) | Apr 14 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | just like spyware | Apr 14 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Jobs keep being eliminated nonetheless, just not in Connecticut maybe | Apr 14 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: And now this gives spyware another hook into Windows | Apr 14 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | so maybe Porno Search replaces Windows Search | Apr 14 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | when you get a spyware infection | Apr 14 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Vista7 scares me | Apr 14 10:18 |
| schestowitz | I never cruised Vista except one time... at the airport | Apr 14 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | That's not a Microsoft fault | Apr 14 10:18 |
| schestowitz | They had a test machine next to two macs | Apr 14 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | that's due to misplaced government regulation | Apr 14 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Vista creeps me as a platform that you'd register | Apr 14 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | Nobody is forcing APple to let Google clobber Finder | Apr 14 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | you get what I mean? | Apr 14 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 14 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Apple is no model | Apr 14 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | No, I mean the Windows search applet should NOT be replaceable | Apr 14 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | Just as the Mac one shouldn't be either | Apr 14 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | cause you get Google and spyware that replaces it with little or no user consent | Apr 14 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | and this is all the fault of the EU | Apr 14 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | and the Department of Justice | Apr 14 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | if they want to regulate something, why not make IE an optional program? | Apr 14 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | while they're at it, Safari should be optional on the Mac | Apr 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/co... "That announcement stated that, starting "on or about the third week of April" users who are still running either IE6 or IE7 on Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2003, or Windows Server 2008 "will get will get a notification through Automatic Update about IE8."" | Apr 14 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | Andwhy didn't they investigate Apple for having secret APIs only Safari can use? | Apr 14 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | Why did Mozilla have to reverse engineer Mac OS? | Apr 14 10:22 |
| DaemonFC | Why is that not a scandal? | Apr 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | Apple has sympathy | Apr 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | It hasn't committed quite the same type of crimes | Apr 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | Like lawsuits by proxy | Apr 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | Blackmail | Apr 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | bribes | Apr 14 10:22 |
| DaemonFC | IF you notice Firefox 3 suddenly acting native and performing better than version 2? | Apr 14 10:23 |
| schestowitz | It did however commit financial fraud on the face of it, like MSFT | Apr 14 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | It's cause they're now using the same secret APIs that Safari uses | Apr 14 10:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: FF3 is less stable for me than FF2 | Apr 14 10:23 |
| schestowitz | But a lot faster | Apr 14 10:23 |
| schestowitz | FF2 could run for 100s of hours without crashes | Apr 14 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | I like Linux mostly because there aren't any dirty tricks artificially crippling one program to make the other look better | Apr 14 10:24 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft and Apple do that | Apr 14 10:24 |
| DaemonFC | constantly | Apr 14 10:24 |
| schestowitz | For 'security' | Apr 14 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft and Apple remind me of Richard Nixon's Dirty Tricks Squad | Apr 14 10:25 |
| schestowitz | of self | Apr 14 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 14 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | also | Apr 14 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | as of yesterdays updates | Apr 14 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu no longer calls itself development branch at the terminal | Apr 14 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | just Ubuntu Jaunty | Apr 14 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Apr 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | Carlo Piana explains controversial MXM Public License proposal to OSI < http://piana.eu/napoleon_hats > | Apr 14 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | SGI has sent in 70 XFS patches on the 2.6.30 Linux dev branch so far | Apr 14 10:30 |
| DaemonFC | that's more than I've seen in that last 2 years | Apr 14 10:30 |
| DaemonFC | mostly cleanups, small bug fixes, some performance patches | Apr 14 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | the new driver is actually looking pretty good | Apr 14 10:34 |
| schestowitz | "Of course, while they may be a tad too much for some people, the BN people at least are proactive. Their regular links are the best of any FLOSS sites." That's us :-) http://www.l2admin.com/linux/10-indivi... | Apr 14 10:38 |
| schestowitz | SGI is no more | Apr 14 10:38 |
| schestowitz | Rackable | Apr 14 10:38 |
| schestowitz | Pushed into a rack of history | Apr 14 10:39 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: They still have some SGI people working on XFS | Apr 14 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | and a lot of former employees doing it as part of their new job or as a hobby | Apr 14 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | Thats the nice thing about GPL, XFS can live on without SGI | Apr 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | WordPress | Apr 14 10:41 |
| schestowitz | GPL is a wonderful thing, isn't it? | Apr 14 10:41 |
| schestowitz | You know where WordPress came from...? | Apr 14 10:41 |
| *magentar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Apr 14 10:41 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it means that projects can and do outlive the company that made them | Apr 14 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | no clue really | Apr 14 10:41 |
| schestowitz | A French guy who apparently went broke (Michele, b2). Now it's a de facto blog platform and sometimes CMS too | Apr 14 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | SGI released a lot of their unfinished XFS work back in December when they laid off most of their XFS team | Apr 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | WordPress is now a company (Automattic) with many millions behind it and millions of sites. The press does not cover this success strory enough | Apr 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | The same is said about Red Hat | Apr 14 10:42 |
| DaemonFC | so I'd imagine this is why we're seeing a bunch of stuff landing all at once | Apr 14 10:43 |
| DaemonFC | other people are finishing the work SGI had | Apr 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | It powers a lot of the world's computers yet people hardly even recognise the name (except technies) | Apr 14 10:43 |
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| DaemonFC | Red Hat is skittish about XFS | Apr 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | With every demise of a GPL project there's a chance to become a project leader | Apr 14 10:43 |
| DaemonFC | if they add it they have to support it | Apr 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Rename, fork, restart | Apr 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Joomla!~ | Apr 14 10:43 |
| DaemonFC | but their lead file system engineer is a former SGI employee | Apr 14 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | who maintains XFS for Fedora | Apr 14 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | also, Rackable got all of SGI's former customers who still use XFS and will for years | Apr 14 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | so I don't think it will go away soon | Apr 14 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | XFS became a white elephant because Linux developers have kind of a not invented here attitude | Apr 14 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 merely duplicates most of what XFS already had from when it was ported to Linux 8 years ago | Apr 14 10:46 |
| oiaohm | Ext4 does not have the one glitch of XFS ie deleting of files. | Apr 14 10:46 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/... Firefox wins because of DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 (extensions). | Apr 14 10:46 |
| schestowitz | Which one does IBM fund (FS) | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | you mean lots of little files? | Apr 14 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | the performance hitch on that | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | you can improve that by tweaking the mount options in fstab | Apr 14 10:47 |
| oiaohm | You think about developers building kernels all the time. | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | but it's a well known area of not so good performance | Apr 14 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Bias comes party from usage. | Apr 14 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, that's really the only people that will even notice that problem | Apr 14 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | is people deleting lots of little .c and .h files | Apr 14 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 14 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | like a kernel source directory | Apr 14 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Yep the very people who are making the decide. | Apr 14 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | XFS hauls ass on most everything else though | Apr 14 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Are the ones effected by the one annony XFS defect. | Apr 14 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Pure bad luck for XFS reallly. | Apr 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you got a comment: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/13... | Apr 14 10:49 |
| oiaohm | If the defect was on extreamly large files developed would have not noticed. | Apr 14 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | I don't mind it just cause if it takes me a minute extra to build a kernel | Apr 14 10:50 |
| DaemonFC | and XFS is so much faster for everything else I do | Apr 14 10:50 |
| DaemonFC | I still end up ahead | Apr 14 10:50 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem. | Apr 14 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully in time all the best features of all filesystems end up in one. | Apr 14 10:50 |
| schestowitz | Gavin Clarke is still advertising Microsoft in El Reg: "Microsoft: have it your way on IE 8" | Apr 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | It's like another Ina Fried, but this guy also attacks the opposition | Apr 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | Though the Friedshill does this too, esp. against Linux and APple | Apr 14 10:53 |
| oiaohm | I will leave that. Really don't want to have to dig into oldest greek language. | Apr 14 10:53 |
| oiaohm | They are some of the first translation errors. | Apr 14 10:54 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I guess it's what happens when controversial issues are discussed here. | Apr 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | Windows dedicated site to try Linux! < http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/04/... > Even the MSFTers look for alternatives. | Apr 14 11:00 |
| schestowitz | Is the patents (intellectual monopoly) era reaching its end? http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009... | Apr 14 11:05 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/jamie_love/... "IMO, Apple sees Linux as desktop threat." | Apr 14 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Psystar steers off Mac OS X and supports Linux. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Psys... | Apr 14 11:12 |
| PetoKraus | hmm interesting | Apr 14 11:22 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://img135.imageshack.us... | Apr 14 11:22 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 14 11:22 |
| PetoKraus | i'm just reading the /. article on the new M$FT €9M fine | Apr 14 11:22 |
| PetoKraus | it's interesting indeed. | Apr 14 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Part of a pattern | Apr 14 11:24 |
| PetoKraus | it's actually one of the first articles where the comments help to understand the topic | Apr 14 11:25 |
| schestowitz | DE is ahead of the curve | Apr 14 11:25 |
| PetoKraus | the article and summary are totally retarded | Apr 14 11:25 |
| schestowitz | also fined sco | Apr 14 11:25 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: heh. | Apr 14 11:26 |
| schestowitz | linkworthy | Apr 14 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I went to Opera's IRC room to mention some Linux bugs | Apr 14 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | and one of their employees said he didn't care cause he doesn't use Linux | Apr 14 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | I asked him why they ported the damned thing if they didn't care it had bugs | Apr 14 11:28 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 14 11:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.dedoimedo.com/compu... (Expanding Linux desktop market) | Apr 14 11:29 |
| schestowitz | But some Opera developers use Linux | Apr 14 11:30 |
| schestowitz | They say they like it | Apr 14 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Depends who you ask | Apr 14 11:30 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Apr 14 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | they still use QT3 :P | Apr 14 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | I just grabbed the latest Opera 10 build | Apr 14 11:31 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 14 11:34 |
| PetoKraus | there's quite a lot of apps which don't work with opera | Apr 14 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | seems like it comes in halfway between IE 8 and Firefox on Sunspider | Apr 14 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | twice as fast as IE but still twice as slow as Firefox 3.0.8 | Apr 14 11:35 |
| PetoKraus | enter midori | Apr 14 11:36 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 14 11:36 |
| PetoKraus | that's blazing fast | Apr 14 11:36 |
| PetoKraus | i'd use it, if only it tracked my gtk theme properly | Apr 14 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | Opera still seems faster than Firefox on other things | Apr 14 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | I think overall Opera is faster | Apr 14 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | but Firefox is better on scripts | Apr 14 11:38 |
| PetoKraus | and it's FOSS | Apr 14 11:38 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Apr 14 11:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and Apple try to pretend Linux does not exist (reduce visibility): http://www.pcmag.com/article2/... | Apr 14 11:39 |
| schestowitz | PCLinuxOS 2009.1 receives nothing but rave reviews. The latest: http://penguiniplanetblog.blogspot.com... | Apr 14 11:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar... Linux Easter egg: "I admit that a couple of these examples -- one in Linux and one in a Telnet session -- aren't technically Easter eggs. But I think these little treats are pretty cool so I put them all in my egg basket to share with you." | Apr 14 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | 3 audio-oriented distros are said to be blobs-free. http://www.gnu.org/distros/... | Apr 14 11:46 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/200... (Current Blames Economy For No IPO... But, Lack Of Profitability May Have Been A Bigger Issue) | Apr 14 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | "The Phoronix Test Suite is our GPLv3..." well done, Michael | Apr 14 12:01 |
| schestowitz | happy (belated) Easter | Apr 14 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | Phoronix botched their file system comparison | Apr 14 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | and interpreted Bonnie++ results wrong | Apr 14 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | they claim that Ext3 was doing things that it's not even capable of | Apr 14 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think it was intentional, I'm just not sure they know what they're doing | Apr 14 12:05 |
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| schestowitz | DaemonFC: he does know | Apr 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | And he doesn't intend to mislead | Apr 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | He's very apathetic wrt Microsoft and other issues we talk about. | Apr 14 12:09 |
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| DaemonFC | I didn't mean the results favored MS | Apr 14 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | It just showed Ext4 as having superpowers it does not possess B-) | Apr 14 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | performance-wise, XFS and Ext4 are both better at certain things, but it's never enough one way or another that you have a clear advantage with one or the other | Apr 14 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | but they are both much better than Ext3 and XFS is much more debugged and has better file system tools | Apr 14 12:14 |
| oiaohm | For some things. | Apr 14 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | It will take a radical change in concepts of how fiel systems should behave to get much better than XFS or Ext4 | Apr 14 12:15 |
| oiaohm | There are downsides in some of XFS tools. | Apr 14 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | which is coming | Apr 14 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Ext4 is end of line. | Apr 14 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I kind of liked UFS2's Soft Updates | Apr 14 12:16 |
| DaemonFC | allows it to not have to lug around a journal | Apr 14 12:16 |
| DaemonFC | and it's still pretty much as reliable | Apr 14 12:16 |
| oiaohm | XFS does have the structures that with work it could be reformed. | Apr 14 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Of course not disk compadible. | Apr 14 12:16 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: why don't you tell him? | Apr 14 12:16 |
| DaemonFC | well, SGI wanted to keep it on-disk compatible with IRIX | Apr 14 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Ext really run to its full end if life. | Apr 14 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Design past rebuilding. | Apr 14 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Eric Sandeen already gave them a play by play of why they were incorrect, much more in-depth than I could, he's the lead file system engineer at Red Hat | Apr 14 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | and worked at SGI before that | Apr 14 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | and they plugged it in the footnotes | Apr 14 12:17 |
| schestowitz | PTS became de facto benchmark | Apr 14 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | and left their incorrect benchmarks up! | Apr 14 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Tell him to fix it. michael at michaellarabel.com | Apr 14 12:18 |
| schestowitz | The issue is, if it's not fixed it'll be repeated and propagated | Apr 14 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Same forumla, same code. Some companies use PTS internally. | Apr 14 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 has all around BLAH performance with everything, where other file systems seem to perform super well under certain loads, and die when you throw others at them | Apr 14 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 is mediocre at everything so it just become the accepted standard :P | Apr 14 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | it creeks and clanks, but it does the just just well enough to never die off.....sounds familiar | Apr 14 12:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that screenshot of Hotmail is funny for 3 reasons | Apr 14 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | meh, Sandeen's reply to them sounded like he was kind of annoyed at having to explain that you'd need top end hardware to even do some of that stuff and Ext3 still isn't capable even if you have it | Apr 14 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | because no independent expert would ever really recommend Internet Explorer? | Apr 14 12:24 |
| schestowitz | 1) they annoy a Firefox users, saying "upgrade", not "switch"; 2) They spam Hotmail users; 3) they bug Linux users with Win-only sw | Apr 14 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | well, most Hotmail users use Windows | Apr 14 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | most Windows users use IE | Apr 14 12:24 |
| schestowitz | Most BN readers don;t | Apr 14 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | Most Windows+IE users are used to spam and pop ups and crap | Apr 14 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | and they'd lock Linux out of Hotmail, but they'd get sued | Apr 14 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 14 12:25 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 is said to have popups | Apr 14 12:25 |
| schestowitz | Wierd notion that | Apr 14 12:25 |
| schestowitz | *weird | Apr 14 12:25 |
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| schestowitz | Firefox 3.6 is Already Running on GNU/Linux < http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/04/in... > | Apr 14 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Ext3 does have a performance spike in small file handling. | Apr 14 12:51 |
| oiaohm | All filesystems have something they were ok at. | Apr 14 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah, you can get Minefield at any point | Apr 14 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | it's just a binary build of the last day's work | Apr 14 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | but it will likely have problems | Apr 14 12:57 |
| tacone | nice link | Apr 14 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | they're built with no human consideration | Apr 14 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | they don't have any of the mods to make them work better on Linux | Apr 14 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | like the ones Debian uses | Apr 14 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | and they are 32-bit only | Apr 14 12:58 |
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| zer0c00l | schestowitz, you saw my mail ?Funny windoze error message | Apr 14 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is up to no good again | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | bribing schools | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | To fight Linux | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | and!!!! | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Calling it "Charity" | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | This company has got SOME nerve. :-) | Apr 14 13:14 |
| MinceR | so business as usual | Apr 14 13:14 |
| schestowitz | This organised crime is fortunately reaching the end of its road | Apr 14 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Apr 14 13:23 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... skip to 3:20 | Apr 14 13:27 |
| oiaohm | MS is starting to talk about a SP4 for XP | Apr 14 13:38 |
| oiaohm | but not extending end of life. | Apr 14 13:38 |
| MinceR | lol | Apr 14 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Social security crisis: http://www.youtube.com/wat... | Apr 14 13:51 |
| schestowitz | More on the economy. This is disturbing. Anyway, I'm off for a while... .youtube.com/watch?v= cziN3gt-hic&feature =PlayList&p=9C6B 8D9B8F705FBC&am p;index=14&playnext =3&playnext_f rom=PL | Apr 14 13:51 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it says a lot about Vista7 | Apr 14 13:52 |
| schestowitz | aka XP2 RC2 | Apr 14 13:52 |
| oiaohm | It breaks MS live support policy. | Apr 14 13:55 |
| oiaohm | 5 years from the last service pack. | Apr 14 13:55 |
| iwmw | lol, will xp sp4 include dx10? | Apr 14 13:57 |
| schestowitz | drm | Apr 14 13:58 |
| iwmw | aah, dx10 is 'bout drm | Apr 14 13:58 |
| iwmw | no wonder i don't have it installed | Apr 14 13:58 |
| schestowitz | It would be nice if WinXP was called Win2001 to remind poeple what they use. Nandriva 2009.1 is out shortly. | Apr 14 13:59 |
| iwmw | not so shortly, 2 weeks until the internal release i suspect | Apr 14 13:59 |
| *iwmw is looking towards debian at home | Apr 14 14:00 | |
| oiaohm | Next generation viruses are going to give windows and anti-virus companies even more hell. | Apr 14 14:01 |
| iwmw | anti-virus companies will only be glad | Apr 14 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Really. | Apr 14 14:01 |
| iwmw | the moar viruses the more threat | Apr 14 14:01 |
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| oiaohm | As viruses become harder and harder to stop. | Apr 14 14:02 |
| iwmw | the more panic | Apr 14 14:02 |
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| oiaohm | More disabling of there scanners. | Apr 14 14:02 |
| iwmw | the more money for antiviruses | Apr 14 14:02 |
| oiaohm | And updating at the same pace or faster than antivirus software. | Apr 14 14:02 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Apr 14 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Also anti-virus software has a hard limit. | Apr 14 14:02 |
| oiaohm | There is only so many signatures you can scan for before you render machine useless. | Apr 14 14:03 |
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| iwmw | antiviruses should've already been moved to the semantic analysis domain | Apr 14 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Viruses are mirroring the semantic methods. | Apr 14 14:05 |
| oiaohm | As with all things in IT tech to prevent viruses can be used in reverse. | Apr 14 14:06 |
| DaemonFC | Nothing really changes in Windows, if something does improve it's because they needed better infrastructure for their DRM | Apr 14 14:06 |
