10.31.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 30th, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 7:10 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

_Doug promise them the sun moon and stars .. until you get their money … Oct 30 18:08
schestowitz Ecosystem, not just business Oct 30 18:08
schestowitz IDC, Gartner, Novell and other allies are paid too. Oct 30 18:09
_Doug corruption is only if you get caught :o Oct 30 18:09
schestowitz As someone who mails me says, “it’s more like a religion or political movement” Oct 30 18:09
schestowitz _Doug: they got caught. Oct 30 18:09
schestowitz They paid for allegation to go away Oct 30 18:09
_Doug more like a cult .. n/l Oct 30 18:09
schestowitz Ironically, they call /others/ that. Oct 30 18:10
schestowitz They call Linux/FOSS religion and Apple a “cult” Oct 30 18:10
schestowitz Sometimes it’s easier to put labels on a minority, but there ya go.. Oct 30 18:10
_Doug example: man leases Supermarket, hos no money or stock .. Oct 30 18:10
_Doug uses Supermarket as colateral to buy foodstock on credit .. Oct 30 18:11
_Doug sells foodstock and pays off creditors Oct 30 18:11
_Doug is technically fraudalent Oct 30 18:12
_Doug but what the left-hand don’t know, don’t matter .. Oct 30 18:12
_Doug that man is now a Lord … Oct 30 18:12
_Doug example #2: have only £10 grand .. Oct 30 18:14
_Doug Get a loan for a 100 at 10% interest .. Oct 30 18:14
_Doug pay off loan immediatly and get another loan for 1000 at 10% interest .. Oct 30 18:15
_Doug bump it up four times and use the sum to finance an apartment block .. Oct 30 18:15
_Doug sell apartment block at 4X the price and pocket the rest .. Oct 30 18:16
_Doug not a bad days worth for 10 grand .. Oct 30 18:16
schestowitz http://radian.org/notebook/the-green… “[T]he Times’ Bits blog has a fascinating post putting Greenspan’s comments about risk management systems in context. In short, computers don’t help if you lie to them.” Oct 30 18:17
twitter People who lie to their computers are generally using their computer to lie to others. Oct 30 18:22
schestowitz Sent by a reader: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=961588 “The best solution is to avoid Mono and go back to Java Server Pages.” Oct 30 18:24
schestowitz “From the stupidity has its own punishment department” Oct 30 18:24
schestowitz twitter: let’s sue teh computers. “The Big Machines,” as George W B calls ‘em. Oct 30 18:25
PetoKraus LOL roy Oct 30 18:26
PetoKraus nice catch Oct 30 18:26
PetoKraus schestowitz: testing your mandriva ;) Oct 30 18:28
schestowitz Mine? Oct 30 18:28
PetoKraus yes, your beloved :P Oct 30 18:28
schestowitz You should have seen what their community manager said about Ubuntu. Oct 30 18:28
PetoKraus link? Oct 30 18:29
schestowitz http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/10/28/why-… (personal opinion, not Mandriva) Oct 30 18:29
schestowitz I use Ubuntu at work and at home, but not just that. Oct 30 18:29
schestowitz Tip on Mono smacking: “Cool.  Be sure to constantly steer back to the original, working technologies — the ones also without the legal landmines.” Oct 30 18:30
neighborlee what exactly is the lowdown on ubuntu and mono..because they are based in UK wherever they are,, does this make them legally unaffected by patents or does it depends where iso is downloaded from ? Oct 30 18:37
neighborlee downloaded from,,or where OS is used is more appropriate I guess Oct 30 18:38
twitter Happy Assassin’s analogy forgets to mention the M$ Mafia having screwed everyone for decades. Oct 30 18:38
twitter Shuttleworth’s personal “dive bomb” has gotten him places “fair” competition could not.  Good for Shuttleworth and free software. Oct 30 18:39
twitter Other distros will be happy when the M$ monopoly is broken. Oct 30 18:40
neighborlee it wont happen I dont think anytime soon until people that install linux see a stable  system where all hardware and software works as expected. Oct 30 18:40
neighborlee apps, games, you name it..its a huge uphille battle. Oct 30 18:40
twitter HP sees that already. Oct 30 18:41
twitter So do Lenovo, Asus, Acer and others. Oct 30 18:41
neighborlee well if latest ubuntu release is any indication..I find that slightly hard to believe. Oct 30 18:41
neighborlee apport isn’t even enabled by default in stable releases..thats just crazy. Oct 30 18:42
neighborlee imho anyway Oct 30 18:42
twitter apport? Oct 30 18:42
neighborlee yes Oct 30 18:42
neighborlee crasn handler Oct 30 18:42
neighborlee crash Oct 30 18:42
schestowitz Just posted, about EU and UK patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1… Oct 30 18:43
twitter I don’t know.  I’m on Lenny.  Lenny’s got some bugs now, so Ubuntu will have bugs.  They get fixed. Oct 30 18:43
schestowitz _Doug: thanks for the input. I’m doing lots of SCO quotes today. Oct 30 18:43
neighborlee twitter: stuff happens yes Oct 30 18:43
twitter After eight years of GNU/Linux use, I’m sure free software is ready for everyone. Oct 30 18:43
neighborlee intrepid was released with a wonky cd  drive mechanism..umount issues..to me thats just wrong,,QA has gone into the crapper imo. Oct 30 18:44
neighborlee twitter: for the most part prob. so yes ;) Oct 30 18:44
twitter The only thing I’ve missed has been 3d acceleration.  That’s on the way. Oct 30 18:44
neighborlee ? Oct 30 18:44
neighborlee you mean your not using proprietary drivers ? Oct 30 18:45
twitter Right. Oct 30 18:45
neighborlee ah ok Oct 30 18:45
neighborlee well I cant live without them..I game ;) Oct 30 18:45
neighborlee and well I use blender3d ;) Oct 30 18:45
neighborlee so its not possible here. Oct 30 18:45
twitter Care to share some of your blender work? Oct 30 18:45
neighborlee interesting article about mandriva vs canonical hehe Oct 30 18:45
PetoKraus neighborlee: what graphics card do you have? Oct 30 18:46
neighborlee twitter: nothing online atm, but sure I can do that latre if you wish Oct 30 18:46
neighborlee PetoKraus: nvidia 8800 GTX 768MB Oct 30 18:46
twitter no hurry, there’s plenty of entertainment in the world. Oct 30 18:46
PetoKraus neighborlee: i’ve had some successes on ATI open source drivers ‘n’ gaming Oct 30 18:46
PetoKraus neighborlee: aha ;) Oct 30 18:46
neighborlee ive heard too  many horror stories about ati and linux..sorry no yet ;) Oct 30 18:46
twitter Nvidia is the only company that’s not playing free software ball now and their non free drivers work. Oct 30 18:47
neighborlee plus this card was a really good deal…Idont mind using nvidia drivers either its a non issue to m e. Oct 30 18:47
PetoKraus :) it’s much better than nVidia right now Oct 30 18:47
twitter Intel works OK. Oct 30 18:47
schestowitz neighborlee: in the future, avoid NVidia. Oct 30 18:47
neighborlee well as I say..it was economics that drove my purchase ;) Oct 30 18:47
schestowitz I have NVidia on this machine. Oct 30 18:47
schestowitz At work I have ATI Oct 30 18:47
PetoKraus i guess AMD Fusion is very nice idea Oct 30 18:48
PetoKraus good for most users Oct 30 18:48
PetoKraus Puma is actually very good, though, poor adaptation so far Oct 30 18:48
twitter Sooner or later Nvidia will have to play too. Oct 30 18:48
PetoKraus like, 3 models…. Oct 30 18:48
schestowitz We need to reward AMD/ATI to encourage better open source drivers. NVidia is defective and a lost cause. Let them perish or see the light. Oct 30 18:48
schestowitz AMD CPU + ATI is a good combination. No VIA, no Intel, no NVidia.. Oct 30 18:48
neighborlee twitter: they claim they can’t atm..patents on certain parts of their cards ? Oct 30 18:48
twitter then let them perish Oct 30 18:49
neighborlee schestowitz: yeah I agree on that Oct 30 18:49
schestowitz twitter: yes, when people say “no” to NVidia, then they’ll change. Oct 30 18:49
PetoKraus schestowitz: they are doing Fusion platform, i dunno if you heard Oct 30 18:49
twitter What ATI boards do you recommend for free drivers? Oct 30 18:49
schestowitz If you feed a yelling prisoner, he’ll keep yelling. Oct 30 18:49
PetoKraus it’s basically GPU incorporated on CPU Oct 30 18:49
_Doug 1990-1995: Microsoft’s Yellow Road to Cairo .. Oct 30 18:49
PetoKraus twitter: just have a look on phoronix Oct 30 18:49
_Doug http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4…. Oct 30 18:49
neighborlee however another reason I avoided ati, was their use  of DX ,,nvidia has always been strong on ogl. Oct 30 18:49
neighborlee that and my friends all use nvidia. Oct 30 18:50
neighborlee so .. Oct 30 18:50
PetoKraus well, not really Oct 30 18:50
PetoKraus geforce 8800, reportedly, has much worse performance on OGL than DirectX Oct 30 18:50
neighborlee oh lovely Oct 30 18:50
PetoKraus they had to pick between DX10 and OGL, afawk Oct 30 18:50
schestowitz NVidia has manufacturing problems. Very serious ones. Oct 30 18:50
neighborlee well atm I do most gaming in winblows Oct 30 18:50
neighborlee sad to say ;) Oct 30 18:50
schestowitz I alwayty fear that the GPU will start acting up Oct 30 18:50
schestowitz Even Apple PCs with NVidia are affected. Oct 30 18:51
schestowitz And that’s not FUD. NVidia told this to its shareholders. If got sued anyway, I think… for downplaying it. Oct 30 18:51
neighborlee is there url for this Oct 30 18:52
twitter I look at  phoronix and find 11 page articles.  Are there free software drivers for ATI yet that work? Oct 30 18:53
neighborlee faik, not even ati gives free drives for their ‘new’ cards. Oct 30 18:55
twitter Intel did and they hate free software. Oct 30 18:56
MinceR funny how intel gpu-s have the best driver support Oct 30 18:56
neighborlee and the least performance ;) Oct 30 18:56
neighborlee oh well ;) Oct 30 18:56
_Doug Rob Enderle demonstrates multi-touch on Windows 7 .. Oct 30 18:58
_Doug http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn… Oct 30 18:58
schestowitz neighborlee: yes, hold on… http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne… Oct 30 18:58
schestowitz “Technology analyst Rob Enderle and the BBC’s Rory Cellan-Jones have taken a look.” Oct 30 18:59
schestowitz Haha. Rory is the usual MSBBC pal of Ballmer and Gates. Oct 30 18:59
schestowitz Funny how all the groupies join efforts to boost Vista 7. Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz From http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8332 : Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz ‘With the exception of Rob Enderle and myself – who were the only two “Professional” journalists and analysts present at the event as far as I could tell — the entire guest list was stacked with Open Source community folks, such as William Hurley, BMC Software’s Chief Open Source strategist and David Recordon, the the founder of OpenID.’ Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz ‘Starting from the cocktail mixer at the Bellevue Hyatt on the Tuesday evening that I got there and introducing myself to each attendee, it became increasingly apparent that this was no typical analyst/press/blogger Microsoft meet and greet.’ Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz Cocktails… parties… Microsoft… Enderle. Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz Bringing in bloggers and IBM employees for some drinks (not Kool-Aid per se) Oct 30 19:01
twitter here’s something useful – https://help.ubuntu.com/commun… Oct 30 19:01
twitter ” we were locked in a presentation room from 8:30 to 5:30 each day”  Contain them!  Don’t let them teach our staff anything. Oct 30 19:05
_Doug powerpoint demos .. but not the actual ‘stuff’ ? Oct 30 19:05
twitter Sounds like it’s all vapor, ”  was usually prefaced or ended by “Oh yeah, by the way, Miguel de Icaza pretty much has all this stuff ported to Linux already, and if it isn’t working now, we’re gonna make it work really soon.”” Oct 30 19:07
twitter really soon now, we promise Oct 30 19:07
twitter just eat this green apple Oct 30 19:08
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twitter they taste great with kool aid. Oct 30 19:09
twitter Cue Cat.  http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=… Oct 30 19:17
twitter Shuttleworth says he can fund Canonical for another 3 to 5 years.  That ought to be long enough for M$ to be gone. Oct 30 19:19
twitter http://linux.slashdot.org/a… Oct 30 19:19
schestowitz I think he sais something different. Oct 30 19:19
schestowitz He said it would take 3-5 years to become profitable. That’s different. Oct 30 19:19
twitter Ah, let me look for myself. Oct 30 19:19
netcat_ What does that mean…Canonical is not cash-flow positive Oct 30 19:21
twitter That means it’s losing money. Oct 30 19:21
twitter “”I have no objection to funding the business for another three to five years,” he said in a conference call Monday. “I certainly have the patience to see us through any downturn. I think this downturn is going to be very good for Canonical…Canonical is not cash-flow positive, but our offering is very effective for those who want to pinch their pennies.” Oct 30 19:22
netcat_ yeah…until they stop shipping free cd’s Oct 30 19:22
twitter He thinks he’ll be making money in two years but is willing and able to fund it for five.  No one can predict further than five years. Oct 30 19:23
schestowitz Bilski’s is!! Oct 30 19:23
schestowitz Great news. Against patentability!!! Oct 30 19:23
schestowitz Sorry about the typos/ Oct 30 19:23
twitter What, the Cue Cat? Oct 30 19:23
twitter I thought it was bad news they earned a patent on their backward barcode reader. Oct 30 19:24
schestowitz twitter: urgent Oct 30 19:24
schestowitz Can you send me the HTML of http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/o… Oct 30 19:24
trmanco Ubuntu 8.10 looks a lot prettier then its predecessor Oct 30 19:25
schestowitz Other sites want me to publish this Oct 30 19:25
twitter ok Oct 30 19:25
schestowitz :-) Thanks a MILLION Oct 30 19:27
schestowitz I’ll prepare a post for it. Oct 30 19:27
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twitter No problem, 2.2 MB on the way.  simple and complex format Oct 30 19:31
neighborlee schestowitz:http://www.techpowerup.com/in… < oops ? Oct 30 19:32
schestowitz twitter: ta Oct 30 19:33
twitter pdf integration with konqueror is good enough that I don’t mind that format but I’m happy to help people who just want to read text. Oct 30 19:33
twitter or look at images Oct 30 19:33
schestowitz The way it’s done by default is excellent. Oct 30 19:35
twitter cool Oct 30 19:35
twitter M$ down 1.2%, Down up 1.2%, ha ha. Oct 30 19:35
_Doug 07-1130.html .. done Oct 30 19:35
_Doug twitter .. 1.2% is funny ? Oct 30 19:38
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schestowitz Freudian slip Oct 30 19:42
schestowitz Dow=>Down :-) Oct 30 19:42
_Doug is Diamond v. Diehr relevent ? Oct 30 19:42
_Doug http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1… Oct 30 19:42
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schestowitz _Doug: “Argument: Tuesday, October 14, 1980″ Oct 30 20:09
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/forms/bi… http://boycottnovell.com/forms/bil… Oct 30 20:10
twitter _Doug, here’s funny, Dow up 2.11%, MSTF down 1.6% at close, a 3.7% parting of ways. Oct 30 20:20
twitter Oh my, that is good news about patents. Oct 30 20:23
twitter Good bye and good riddance to business method patents. Oct 30 20:24
twitter and, hopefully, software patents as a whole. Oct 30 20:25
twitter ” the invention is not implemented on a specific apparatus Oct 30 20:25
twitter and merely manipulates [an] abstract idea and solves a purely mathematical problem Oct 30 20:25
twitter without any limitation to a practical application, therefore, the invention is not directed to Oct 30 20:25
twitter the technological arts.” Oct 30 20:25
twitter slam. Oct 30 20:25
schestowitz Vista 7 didn’t impress then, eh? Oct 30 20:26
twitter Patent threats no longer impress, that’s for sure. Oct 30 20:32
twitter The first reviews of Vista SP2 have not been favorable. Oct 30 20:33
twitter I’d start a new failure log but the stories belong in the Vista failure log. Oct 30 20:34
schestowitz There’s enough material already for Vista7FailureLog Oct 30 20:35
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10076… “”A security issue has been identified that could allow an authenticated remote attacker to compromise your Microsoft Windows-based system and gain control over it,” the security update says.” Oct 30 20:36
schestowitz “The more than 6,000 attendees who will be walking away from the sold-out event with the Windows 7 operating system software in hand could have been vulnerable to an attacker exploiting the security hole.” Oct 30 20:36
twitter It’s all Windows failure.  It’s not like they can do a rewrite. Oct 30 20:36
schestowitz Take preactive action. Oct 30 20:36
schestowitz Accumulate VIsta 7 failures. Oct 30 20:36
twitter Might as well. Oct 30 20:36
schestowitz Then present a sort of thesis.. anti-marketing material. Oct 30 20:36
twitter Look at this, my trolls have accused me of a “sleazy whisper campaign”  http://slashdot.org/comments… Oct 30 20:37
twitter The people who made neo nazi name trolls for me have some nerve. Oct 30 20:38
schestowitz Lucky I had mod points. Who’s that “Macthorpe” anyway? Oct 30 20:43
twitter Just another name troll.  I don’t believe anything any of them tell me. Oct 30 20:44
PetoKraus wheee Oct 30 20:45
PetoKraus modpoints Oct 30 20:45
PetoKraus :D Oct 30 20:45
twitter Macthorpe and Dedazo accounts have been used to harass me for years. Oct 30 20:45
schestowitz Gremlins are noises in one’s head. Oct 30 20:45
schestowitz I got some E-mail about “MS evangelism” hours ago. Oct 30 20:46
schestowitz Someone wishes to spill some big beans. Oct 30 20:46
twitter that would be more interesting if they had spilled already.  the suspense must be killing you. Oct 30 20:47
schestowitz There are things we already know. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-… Oct 30 20:49
schestowitz (hint: would be nice if a whole book was published about it) Oct 30 20:49
twitter They had better hurry up the book before M$ sinks and no one cares anymore. Oct 30 20:51
_Doug maybe they are just checking as to what is out there already .. ? Oct 30 20:54
_Doug like .. for instance .. comes was never supposed to see the light of day .. Oct 30 20:55
_Doug there are very early references as to just what DLLs would do to security .. Oct 30 20:55
schestowitz Does the supposed author know about those Comes docs? Oct 30 20:57
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_Doug I guess .. just Google on some name … Oct 30 20:58
schestowitz Is the Bilski story in /. FP yet? It definitely belongs there. Oct 30 20:59
schestowitz http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/30/53003 “In this piece, a reporter is saying according to a conference call he listened to with one of the big bailout recipients, they are way more interested in using that capital to gobble up competition, use it for more acquisitions in other words, than in making new loans.” Oct 30 21:01
_Doug remind me of Bilski .. I lose track of the fud sometimes .. Oct 30 21:01
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/30… Oct 30 21:02
twitter something made it to /.  http://yro.slashdot.org/articl… Oct 30 21:04
_Doug http://yro.slashdot.org/article… Oct 30 21:05
_Doug beat me by 200 milliseconds .. :) Oct 30 21:05
_Doug is this in relation to where someone patented insurance on a computer ? Oct 30 21:06
_Doug no .. “commodities trading” Oct 30 21:06
schestowitz I’ve put links to the HTMLs there. Oct 30 21:06
_Doug I can’t wait to see how the amicus.curie are going to spin this .. Oct 30 21:07
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schestowitz StopSoftwarePatents says there will be a lobbyists riot Oct 30 21:08
_Doug MS evangelism::correction: someone wishes to know what beans are already spilled :) Oct 30 21:09
_Doug have the beans been copied somewhere before they disappear from the originating sites ? Oct 30 21:11
schestowitz Yes. Oct 30 21:13
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/wp-co… Oct 30 21:13
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schestowitz MP cries mercy for McKinnon < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/… > Oct 30 21:19
_Doug all of the beans .. what’s that site with the whole directory tree PXxxxx ? Oct 30 21:19
schestowitz http://antitrust.slated.org Oct 30 21:19
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_Doug gtg .. Oct 30 21:20
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schestowitz Desperate Nvidia accuses ATI of cheating < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/… > Oct 30 21:21
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/30… Oct 30 21:30
schestowitz “Can we kick  Miguel de Icaza out of our free software club? He is the worst thing to happen to open source software ever!” Oct 30 21:30
schestowitz The Register’s Gavin Clarke is wiping Microsoft’s behind again.. with open-source BS Oct 30 21:31
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schestowitz *LOL* Sarko…! “Semi-barmy kneehigh French premier Nicolas Sarkozy has failed in his attempt to whip from French shelves a voodoo doll bearing his handsome likeness.” http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10… Oct 30 21:34
schestowitz Another patents-obsessed company biting the dust: http://www.pcworld.com/article/153039/.ht… < Alcatel-Lucent Posts Loss > Oct 30 21:40
schestowitz Motorola Loses $397M in Q3, Plans Switch to Android < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153056/.html?tk=rss_news >;  TSMC Sees Big Revenue Drop, Spending Cuts < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153041/tsmc_… > Oct 30 21:47
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schestowitz Good comment: http://www.linux.com/?module=comments&fun… Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz Hey, jose Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz Let me post your piece. Oct 30 21:54
jose hey Oct 30 21:54
jose noooooooo Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz Give me 2 minutes. Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz Yes Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz It’s already there anyway. Oct 30 21:54
schestowitz It’s already posted. Oct 30 21:54
jose i’ll wait to read it, but if we don’t have a good position, i don’t want to be messing with patents Oct 30 21:55
jose did you catch what i wrote after you left? Oct 30 21:55
schestowitz Yes, I did. Oct 30 21:55
schestowitz It’s an ongoing powwow Oct 30 21:55
jose if the foss people sue then ms will sue back Oct 30 21:55
jose if no sue, then what would motivate writers? Oct 30 21:55
jose aside, that was nice about the business patent ruling Oct 30 21:56
jose this link appears to be about promoting foss on windows and asking for what other foss people like: http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_m… Oct 30 21:57
schestowitz There’s no stuff on that. Oct 30 21:57
schestowitz Gavin Clarke is shooting from the MS hip again. Oct 30 21:57
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/… Oct 30 21:57
schestowitz I’m pissed off seeing authors who play along with Microsoft’s “we’re open” fakery. Oct 30 21:58
schestowitz http://www.networkworld.com/slideshow… ?? Oct 30 21:59
schestowitz Carla is link to old stuff (months old) Oct 30 21:59
schestowitz It seems like readership in that site is descending. Oct 30 22:00
schestowitz *linking, not “link’ Oct 30 22:00
twitter Motorola, ” abandoning the Symbian UIQ operating system, and its proprietary mobile Linux OS, to focus on the Google-backed platform and Microsoft’s Windows Mobile.” from frying pan to fire. Oct 30 22:00
schestowitz Windows Mobile is dying. Oct 30 22:01
schestowitz Say Cringely, Om Malik, even Microsoft Watch (although not in these words) Oct 30 22:01
schestowitz Here’s something I don’t get. http://techdirt.com claims to have over 800,000k subsribers, but it’s PR6 and BN beats it in terms of Netcraft rank and almost in terms of Alex ranks. I know about some readership fakers out there… trying to just attract advertisers. Oct 30 22:04
schestowitz *800,000, not 800,000k Oct 30 22:05
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schestowitz http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive… “This is just ridiculous. Of course the bad guys will use all the communications tools available to the rest of us. They have to communicate, after all. They’ll also use cars, water faucets, and all-you-can-eat buffet lunches. So what?” Oct 30 22:24
schestowitz http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/… “Opera’s engineers have developed a version of Opera Mini that can run on an Apple iPhone, but Apple won’t let the company release it because it competes with Apple’s own Safari browser.” Oct 30 22:25
MinceR i wonder why opera bothered Oct 30 22:28
MinceR they know crApple can’t stand competition Oct 30 22:28
schestowitz http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0…. “Matt Assay?    Can you give me a LOL?    This is the man who professes to be an advocate of open source yet is a self confessed Apple fan.   The irony! IT BURNS!” Oct 30 22:35
PetoKraus hehe, my friend updated his ubuntu Oct 30 22:36
PetoKraus and he can’t connect using wireless Oct 30 22:36
PetoKraus it seems to have uninstalled the wpa-supplicant frontend Oct 30 22:36
schestowitz Interesting thoughts in Splashtop: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0… Oct 30 22:37
schestowitz Can’t he reinstall it? Oct 30 22:37
PetoKraus well, he has to connect using wired Oct 30 22:37
schestowitz Oh Oct 30 22:38
PetoKraus though – i mean, it’s stupid, upgrade shouldn’t break your system Oct 30 22:38
schestowitz I got the feeling that some time ago Canonical started to neglect the desktop to do their Remix thingie because that’s where the money is. Oct 30 22:38
twitter upgrades are difficult, that’s why Debian takes so long between releases. Oct 30 22:39
schestowitz I hope that I’m wrong, but it they can’t produce a desktop as solid as several other vendors (Mandriva is good), then they should send those users where they belong and do their Remix thing. Oct 30 22:39
schestowitz FWIW, it’s messy also with Mac OS and Windows (upgrades don’t work well) Oct 30 22:39
PetoKraus twitter: though, debian’s upgrade never broke my system Oct 30 22:40
PetoKraus twitter: from etch to lenny, that is Oct 30 22:40
twitter that’s cool because lenny is still in testing. Oct 30 22:40
twitter I’ve goon from Woody to Sarge to Etch and now Lenny.  I’ve only had disk space problems, that I made for myself.  Otherwise, Debian upgrades have always been good to me. Oct 30 22:41
PetoKraus exactly Oct 30 22:42
PetoKraus ubuntu? breaks. Oct 30 22:42
twitter Other distributions are better with a binary wipe from a CD, preserving your home directory. Oct 30 22:42
PetoKraus though that is too much hassle Oct 30 22:42
PetoKraus that’s why i like rolling-release much more Oct 30 22:43
twitter A CD install would be a little much every six months. Oct 30 22:43
twitter Debian children always have the maximum pain when Debian is about to go stable.  They have to pull from SID to differentiate themselves.  That’s a useful service and it’s less painful than running SID all the time yourself. Oct 30 22:46
twitter but it can break things. Oct 30 22:46
PetoKraus well, i am running gentoo ~arch, that means, quite new versions of stuff Oct 30 22:47
PetoKraus it tends to be actually more stable than “stable” tree sometimes Oct 30 22:47
twitter One of these days, I’m going to have to try that out. Oct 30 22:47
PetoKraus don’t…. try arch Oct 30 22:48
PetoKraus gentoo is waste of time Oct 30 22:48
twitter I waste a lot of time.  :) Oct 30 22:48
PetoKraus arch is basically even simpler gentoo. Yes, you can’t enable various use flags for your software, but when it breaks, you are reinstalled in almost no time Oct 30 22:49
schestowitz It’s an educational thing. Pick your poison. But Mandriva is a sweet ride. Oct 30 22:49
schestowitz It hides the terminal from you. All very simply. Oct 30 22:49
schestowitz *simple Oct 30 22:49
PetoKraus i dunno Oct 30 22:49
PetoKraus i didn’t like the KDE4 Oct 30 22:49
PetoKraus i mean… nothing new Oct 30 22:49
MinceR only try arch if you don’t need documentation, ever; and won’t need to downgrade, ever. Oct 30 22:49
PetoKraus it seems old. Oct 30 22:49
schestowitz OK, I keep finding fakers. Oct 30 22:50
twitter “FWIW, it’s messy also with Mac OS and Windows (upgrades don’t work well)”  I don’t know about Mac, but Windows upgrades are hell, second only to reinstall.  Never, ever, again. Oct 30 22:50
PetoKraus schestowitz: fakers? Oct 30 22:50
schestowitz This guy who put me in his blogroll claims to have 130,000 readers, but the blog is PR3 and there’s almost nothing happening there. Surely it’s a fake. Oct 30 22:50
schestowitz PetoKraus: some site want to market themselves as big, so they make up numbers Oct 30 22:50
twitter got to go for a while Oct 30 22:50
schestowitz I’ve seen that before. There’s no law against it. Oct 30 22:51
PetoKraus it’s just… with all that plasma stuff i expected something really bling-bling. and mandriva’s KDE4 seems, well, nothing new, flashy… Oct 30 22:51
schestowitz Can’t trust those numbers anymore. Oct 30 22:51
schestowitz *Crunch does that too, but maybe not a faker. I dunno anymore.. Oct 30 22:51
PetoKraus I liked the idea of gadgets on desktop, though, E has it for quite a long time, only thing is – you can’t rotate them in fancy positions… Oct 30 22:51
schestowitz I ripped superkaramba. Oct 30 22:52
schestowitz All those widgets are a waste of space and resources. Oct 30 22:52
schestowitz You also need to expose them for these widgets to be useful. Oct 30 22:52
schestowitz I can attach better meters to panels Oct 30 22:52
PetoKraus well, that’s what i am talking about.. In E, they are as resource-using, as, say, shelf Oct 30 22:52
schestowitz I think I must change my priorities soon. Oct 30 22:53
PetoKraus i expected something macbookish from kde4… Oct 30 22:53
PetoKraus i didn’t find it :/ Oct 30 22:53
schestowitz I’ve been posting to USENET for years, but it’s a lot of work. Oct 30 22:53
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 30 22:59
twitter http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news… Oct 30 23:25
twitter the worst is just starting. Oct 30 23:25
twitter decades of anti-competitive practice by the automakers just made their failure bigger and more painful Oct 30 23:27
MinceR gn Oct 30 23:29
schestowitz *GASP* Oct 30 23:30
schestowitz Bloody heck. That’s a lot of families. Oct 30 23:30
*[H]omer_ is now known as [H]omer Oct 30 23:31
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer Oct 30 23:32
*moparx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Oct 30 23:33
jose i’m going to try go get some sleep…. Oct 30 23:56
*jose has quit (“Leaving”) Oct 30 23:56
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