04.19.09

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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 18th, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:37 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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oiaohm Here is the problem with TPB.  There are a lot of online shops that are really nothing more than middle men.    If the link argument worked.  The online shops could push for it.  Since they don’t store make or even ship the product to you. Apr 18 00:01
oiaohm Once you start saying a person is not responsable for what they are doing you are on a very fast slope to problems. Apr 18 00:01
MinceR nice evasion of the real point there. Apr 18 00:04
MinceR the real point being _what_ are they doing really Apr 18 00:04
oiaohm MinceR do I really care about the data they are sharing. Apr 18 00:05
MinceR i thought that was what the discussion was about Apr 18 00:05
oiaohm Really the only thing I care about is that they take care of there end users. Apr 18 00:05
oiaohm From defective items. Apr 18 00:06
MinceR what they do is help peers locate each other to share data. Apr 18 00:06
oiaohm Same with a online shop helps locate items you want to buy MinceR Apr 18 00:06
MinceR nope, an online shop has to do a lot more if it is to be a _shop_ Apr 18 00:07
MinceR such as making sure the items get delivered and arranging payment Apr 18 00:07
oiaohm What is TPB VPN network. Apr 18 00:08
oiaohm Getting paid and making sure of delivery. Apr 18 00:08
oiaohm They basically have become a shop just hidding where they are taking there percentage from. Apr 18 00:09
oiaohm Even a shop give links to free samples is responsable for the link. Apr 18 00:09
oiaohm Would you class it as fine for a shop to give you links to fake programs that said you were virus infected to sell you an anti-virus? Apr 18 00:11
MinceR we weren’t discussing the VPN Apr 18 00:11
MinceR the VPN is a service facilitating getting around fascist swedish law. Apr 18 00:11
MinceR their government has decided that the privacy of their citizens is worthless Apr 18 00:11
oiaohm If they were not charging for it.   Then it was just avoiding law. Apr 18 00:12
oiaohm Once you charge for something game is different. Apr 18 00:12
MinceR interesting — you were attacking them as if it was no different before you mentioned the VPN service. Apr 18 00:12
oiaohm Once they started  the VPN service they basically become a shop. Apr 18 00:13
oiaohm Risk of them winning the just a link argument increased. Apr 18 00:14
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oiaohm If they had stayed just a no charge setup.  Them winning did make on-line shops very simply get the same loop hole. Apr 18 00:15
MinceR you mean decreased Apr 18 00:15
tacone increased Apr 18 00:15
*MinceR doesn’t get it Apr 18 00:16
tacone ops. no, decreased O:-) Apr 18 00:16
MinceR oh. Apr 18 00:16
MinceR IPREDator allows access to more than just TPB, doesn’t it? Apr 18 00:17
oiaohm Yes other users inside the vpn. Apr 18 00:17
oiaohm They had taken reponsiablity for deliviery and was charging for it. Apr 18 00:18
oiaohm Ie shop. Apr 18 00:18
MinceR so the VPN itself doesn’t have a gateway to the internet? Apr 18 00:18
oiaohm Nop. Apr 18 00:19
MinceR that doesn’t serve their standpoint at all. Apr 18 00:19
oiaohm Nop in the sence no link from the vpn back to internet just to other members in the vpn. Apr 18 00:20
oiaohm So it was purely for sharing Apr 18 00:20
MinceR but does the actual content get routed through the VPN? Apr 18 00:20
oiaohm Yes. Apr 18 00:20
MinceR sounds like it defeats the whole purpose of bittorrent Apr 18 00:21
oiaohm VPN can operate with decentrised linking. Apr 18 00:21
MinceR ic Apr 18 00:21
MinceR well, got to catch some sleep already Apr 18 00:22
MinceR gn Apr 18 00:22
oiaohm Before vpn the argument was just over if it was free speech. Apr 18 00:22
oiaohm After the vpn you have a shop providing free stuff talking no responsablity for the quality of it. Apr 18 00:24
MinceR with the VPN they only facilitate the authentication of peers and key exchange, don’t they? Apr 18 00:25
MinceR that’s hardly “taking care of delivery” Apr 18 00:25
oiaohm Why are people buying the VPN. Apr 18 00:25
MinceR so that they can communicate with the other people who pay for the VPN securely Apr 18 00:26
MinceR i’m not sure if excluding untrustworthy people is part of the plan, probably not Apr 18 00:26
MinceR (that is, state/MAFIAA/whatever observers who would buy the service) Apr 18 00:27
MinceR the delivery itself still relies on the same network for the most part Apr 18 00:27
MinceR and comes from the same source Apr 18 00:27
oiaohm Like a shipping company is not responsable for items they ship up until a point.   As soon as shiping company gives you list of items you can buy they are responsable for them even if they just ship them. Apr 18 00:28
oiaohm This is the problem TPB case threated to undo lots of protections. Apr 18 00:28
oiaohm Real world protections. Apr 18 00:29
MinceR TPB is not an ISP Apr 18 00:29
MinceR neither are they the content provider Apr 18 00:29
oiaohm TPB become a shipping company providing a list as soon as they become a vpn. Apr 18 00:30
MinceR how so? Apr 18 00:30
oiaohm ISP is just a shipping company does not really provide you with a list. Apr 18 00:30
MinceR what sort of shipping does TPB do? Apr 18 00:30
oiaohm vpn network.  That is basically certified devery. Apr 18 00:31
MinceR you still haven’t explained why that would be. Apr 18 00:31
MinceR they don’t control what goes on in the VPN, only who gains access to it. Apr 18 00:32
oiaohm Same argument has been used by shipping companies. Apr 18 00:32
MinceR because (as you said) linking is decentralised Apr 18 00:32
oiaohm They transport the box. Apr 18 00:32
oiaohm Or provide a way for the box to be transported. Apr 18 00:32
oiaohm Note the or. Apr 18 00:33
MinceR that’s subcontracting Apr 18 00:33
MinceR TPB does not subcontract any ISPs Apr 18 00:33
MinceR all they need to do is give their customers a certificate or a key Apr 18 00:33
oiaohm They don’t have to subcontract ISPs. Apr 18 00:33
oiaohm Do they provide a way for the box to be transported yes the VPN. Apr 18 00:34
MinceR no they don’t Apr 18 00:34
MinceR they don’t provide the network links nor anything about them Apr 18 00:35
MinceR only the data necessary to set up session keys Apr 18 00:35
MinceR they don’t even necessarily know what goes on over the link Apr 18 00:35
oiaohm Can you operate a cerfified shipping company having user directly pay another shipping company to move the item. Apr 18 00:36
oiaohm Answer is yes. Apr 18 00:36
oiaohm So no they don’t need to own the links. Apr 18 00:36
MinceR wow, usian antitrust laws are working really great >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article… Apr 18 00:37
oiaohm If they were just operating a vpn no legal problem. Apr 18 00:37
MinceR does the certified shipping company pay the other shipping company to move the item? yes they do Apr 18 00:37
oiaohm If they were just operating a list site they had a chance of winning. Apr 18 00:37
MinceR do they arrange for that service? yes they do. Apr 18 00:37
MinceR does TPB pay the network operators, ISPs along the way to transport the data? no they don’t Apr 18 00:38
oiaohm Some certified shipping companys just inspect the goods at each end. Apr 18 00:38
MinceR all they do is facilitate the encryption and integrity protection of the data along the way Apr 18 00:38
oiaohm And carry out the dispute with the shipping compnay if something gets damaged. Apr 18 00:38
MinceR and the other companies just do work for them for free, without needing to be asked? Apr 18 00:39
oiaohm No person using the service pays the company doing the shipping directly. Apr 18 00:39
MinceR is TPB responsible if enough routers on the path to the other peer die and the other peer becomes unreachable? no they aren’t Apr 18 00:40
MinceR of course not directly. indirectly. Apr 18 00:40
MinceR in the case of the VPN this payment does not happen through TPB. Apr 18 00:40
MinceR it happens through the ISPs the peers have contracted. Apr 18 00:40
MinceR they are the ones who provide the transportation service. Apr 18 00:41
oiaohm Has TPB got directly involed in avoiding ISP filters and the like Apr 18 00:41
oiaohm So taking up the dispute. Apr 18 00:41
oiaohm Its no different to a certified shipping company trying to sneak stuff that they should not though mail and the like. Apr 18 00:42
MinceR if you transport a shipment in a box and buy a lock to secure the box, do you hold the manufacturer of the lock responsible for failure to deliver the box after the lock was applied to it? Apr 18 00:43
oiaohm Transporters are not responsiable if they don’t know the possiable contents of what they are shipping. Apr 18 00:43
oiaohm As soon as you start transporting and you know then you are in legal trouble. Apr 18 00:44
MinceR so who’s responsible then? Apr 18 00:45
oiaohm Person who sets up the transport. Apr 18 00:45
oiaohm Person providing the items. Apr 18 00:45
MinceR which isn’t TPB Apr 18 00:45
oiaohm Person recieving the times. Apr 18 00:46
oiaohm VPN is setting up a transport system. Apr 18 00:46
MinceR all those people are peers, not TPB. Apr 18 00:46
MinceR nope Apr 18 00:46
MinceR VPN is setting up encryption and integrity protection of the data transported Apr 18 00:46
oiaohm Stealthing the transport. Apr 18 00:46
oiaohm Anyone doing that is also at risk. Apr 18 00:47
MinceR does your ISP refuse to let your packets through if it can’t decrypt the contents? Apr 18 00:47
oiaohm ISP’s don’t have to. Apr 18 00:47
MinceR then your analogy has failed. Apr 18 00:47
oiaohm Do they know that the contents in that encrypted transport contain items that it should not. Apr 18 00:47
oiaohm ISP don’t. Apr 18 00:48
MinceR does the certified shipping company know if the box is locked with a lock they can’t open? Apr 18 00:48
oiaohm The difference here TPB is not operating with a pure locked box. Apr 18 00:49
oiaohm If TPB had no way to know any of the contents inside the VPN no legal trouble. Apr 18 00:49
oiaohm They have put two incompadible items teoghter trying to avoid law. Apr 18 00:50
MinceR they have no way to know Apr 18 00:50
MinceR and they don’t want to have any way to know that Apr 18 00:50
oiaohm Do they not provide a list of avalid items to be shipped. Apr 18 00:50
MinceR and depending on how key exchange happens, that box can be pretty well locked up. Apr 18 00:51
oiaohm List + vpn dead meat. Apr 18 00:51
MinceR you’re still leaping to conclusions. Apr 18 00:51
MinceR but i don’t think i can convince you anyway. good night Apr 18 00:51
oiaohm Its not conclusions past cases with shipping companies covered the same line TPB tried.  MinceR Apr 18 00:52
oiaohm You cannot say you don’t know what is in any of the boxs if you provide a list of items for people to get and some of them should not be sent.  Ok you don’t know what boxes. Apr 18 00:53
oiaohm But some boxs you are shipping are problems.  That is what the past cases said. Apr 18 00:54
oiaohm In that case you are still reposnable to correct your list.  Or pay the price. Apr 18 00:54
oiaohm Laws don’t let sitting on hands and doing nothing. Apr 18 00:56
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schestowitz MinceR: antitrust is OK Apr 18 00:59
schestowitz After Vista7 there might not be much left Apr 18 00:59
schestowitz So why bother with another Unisys? Apr 18 00:59
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_Hicham_ Hi oiaohm Apr 18 01:23
oiaohm Hi _Hicham_ Apr 18 01:25
_Hicham_ any news? Apr 18 01:30
oiaohm Nothing much. Apr 18 01:32
oiaohm Just lining up to build gimp. Apr 18 01:34
_Hicham_ why build gimp? Apr 18 01:35
_Hicham_ did u patched it? Apr 18 01:35
oiaohm verse patch. Apr 18 01:37
oiaohm Same reason why I patch blender. Apr 18 01:38
_Hicham_ verse patch? Apr 18 01:38
oiaohm Means to directly edit textures on a 3d model. Apr 18 01:38
oiaohm Ie paint in gimp have it show up on blender straight away. Apr 18 01:39
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woofy kewl Apr 18 02:17
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schestowitz Hey Apr 18 07:08
PetoKraus schestowitz: did you read the facebook documents? Apr 18 08:13
PetoKraus i see you voted Apr 18 08:14
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schestowitz PetoKraus: heck no, I didn’t read and I have FB Apr 18 08:16
schestowitz :-D Apr 18 08:16
PetoKraus :) Apr 18 08:16
PetoKraus i’m just reading trough it Apr 18 08:16
PetoKraus just to see what they came up with Apr 18 08:16
PetoKraus lol Apr 18 08:21
PetoKraus “4.4 You will not use Facebook if you are a convicted sex offender.” Apr 18 08:21
schestowitz Novell Won’t Coordinate Releases with Canonical/Ubuntu < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/… > Apr 18 08:22
schestowitz PetoKraus: for each new term there’s a story Apr 18 08:23
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oiaohm Novell not as dumb as they seam. Apr 18 08:29
oiaohm By Coordinating releases whould have ment never for sure having a tech advantage. Apr 18 08:29
schestowitz Former Microsoft cronies attack mjasay: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/1… Apr 18 08:35
schestowitz oiaohm: true Apr 18 08:35
schestowitz What’s dumb about that? Apr 18 08:35
oiaohm Some people tried in another channel to make it that it was dumb not to line up releases. Apr 18 08:36
oiaohm Sorry wrong note wrong channel. Apr 18 08:36
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_boo_ oiaohm, invite them here Apr 18 09:03
_boo_ we will have fun to watch dat Apr 18 09:03
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_boo_ and in either case… i’m just intersted to see what linus told about gplv3 Apr 18 09:15
_boo_ even though i know that he’s against it Apr 18 09:16
_boo_ seems like linus is a big problem from gpl3 to spread Apr 18 09:17
_boo_ but he’s not that big for gpl3 to spread Apr 18 09:18
_boo_ and there should be even gpl4 Apr 18 09:19
_boo_ people are afraid of authorities Apr 18 09:19
_boo_ even “free” authourities Apr 18 09:19
_boo_ linus, you effing shouldn’t feel effed up when someone is trying to enforce what your really wanted Apr 18 09:21
oiaohm Linus has problems with the anti tivo in GPL3 Apr 18 09:22
oiaohm Spliting OS secuirty from DRM protections is hard. Apr 18 09:23
_boo_ lol Apr 18 09:23
_boo_ drm protections… Apr 18 09:23
_boo_ you either support ‘em or not Apr 18 09:23
oiaohm TPM Apr 18 09:30
oiaohm TPM prevents system from being altered. Apr 18 09:30
oiaohm Good from a secuirty point of view. Apr 18 09:30
oiaohm Also good from a person wantting a DRM system. Apr 18 09:31
schestowitz _boo_: I could share some things from Linus correspondence Apr 18 09:34
schestowitz And yes, GPLv4 might come in the not–so-distant future. Apr 18 09:34
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, I raised that point too to him. Apr 18 09:34
schestowitz Linus: “I would hope that people start soem critical thinking, and realize that while the GPLv3 may be better in patent language, it’s a lot worse in other respects.” Apr 18 09:35
schestowitz I agree that there are other issues, such as the ‘Googlisation’ of source code (GPLv3 does not go this far). To prevent leveraging of one’s work to exclude him/her, look no further than BSD and Mac OS X. But that’s another issue. The subject of DRM aside, I think it boils down to considering and weighing pros and cons. Apr 18 09:35
schestowitz Alan Cox reached a different conclusion. I really hate software patents, but I realise they are a huge issue and they are not going away in this corruptible system we live in; hopefully we can stop them from _expanding_. Apr 18 09:36
oiaohm Problem with DRM is DRM was designed as a secuirty system. Apr 18 09:36
oiaohm Usage by media companies was not its first usages. Apr 18 09:36
schestowitz Yup Apr 18 09:36
schestowitz he doesn’t seem to understand everything Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz Did you see his rants in Groklaw? Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz PJ deleted his comment Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz it was about DRM BTW Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz Linus (yesterday): “I let people know what my issues were with the drafts. They had their idiotic dead horse to flog, and the end result is a GPLv3 that is crap.” Apr 18 09:37
oiaohm I agree with Linus that gpl3 don’t fit well with at OS core. Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz He also said he *liked* tivoization Apr 18 09:37
schestowitz GPLv3 does have its flaws, but so are other things like patent law. Additionally, as time goes by, there is the compatibility issue. Other projects choose GPLv3 simply because they objectively prefer it. This may be obnoxious, but just like patent law, it’s a very obnoxious reality. Apr 18 09:38
oiaohm Linux big market is the device market. Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz There’s also copyright assignment with other companies Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz Like those giving drivers Apr 18 09:38
oiaohm So killing tivoization would effect that market. Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz It harms a migration plan Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, so…? Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz He knows about Android now Apr 18 09:38
schestowitz Linus tells me: “If they had _just_ updated the patent language, this just wouldn’t be an  issue. But nooo, there was a religious agenda to it, and the other updates made the GPLv3 unusable in my opinion.” Apr 18 09:39
schestowitz That’s selfish of him… in a way Apr 18 09:39
oiaohm Patent language was a even bigger killer. Apr 18 09:39
schestowitz Some other developers care about those other changes (fewer people also choose AGPLvx). This is a form of teamwork where compromises need to be made; just as it’s pointless to slam/dismiss GNOME as “GUI Nazis” only to find that their work is valuable and necessary, it’s dangerous to completely disregard parts of the operating system that enrich it and appeal to a userbase. Apr 18 09:39
schestowitz oiaohm: bigger issue? Apr 18 09:40
schestowitz How so? Apr 18 09:40
schestowitz I don’t think he understands it fully Apr 18 09:40
schestowitz he’s not into politics remember. Apr 18 09:40
schestowitz He brags about doing just the “engineering” Apr 18 09:40
oiaohm Patent langauge was not selective enough Apr 18 09:40
schestowitz But here’s the thing Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz To show you he misunderstands Apr 18 09:41
oiaohm Someone designed a device patented it and had closed source userspace driver for it. Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz He wrote: “I also think that the SFLC is rather self-serving, and populated mostly by  people who want to push the GPLv3 whether it makes sense or not. The fact is, the GPLv3 wouldn’t actually have helped in the tomtom case anyway. At best, it might have put Tomtom’s back to the wall – without any actual  improved outcome. What’s the advantage of that?” Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, but that’s another issue Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz And Linux should requested unencumbered code Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz Remember the petition Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz many Linux devs signed it BUT NOT LINUS Apr 18 09:41
schestowitz conspicuously missing Apr 18 09:41
oiaohm For device makers the need for encombered code is sometimes required. Apr 18 09:42
schestowitz He is not against blobs in the kernel, hardly even as a preference. Apr 18 09:42
schestowitz oiaohm: too bad, eh? :-) Apr 18 09:42
oiaohm He is against blobs where able in kernel space. Apr 18 09:42
schestowitz Anyway, See http://truthhappens.redhat.com/2008/06… “Red Hat Patent Settlement Compatible with GPLv3″ Apr 18 09:42
schestowitz Linus didn’t understand this, I think Apr 18 09:42
_boo_ lol Apr 18 09:42
schestowitz This basically means that a settlement with a company like TomTom would not leave other companies susceptible/vulnerable to similar offensive action. It defangs Microsoft as an effective patent aggressor and prevents more patent deals. Apr 18 09:42
_boo_ i agree that gplv3 is not as goood as it should be Apr 18 09:43
_boo_ tat’s kinda obvious Apr 18 09:43
schestowitz I think he just sees Stallman’s face in GPL and he regrets it Apr 18 09:43
_boo_ from the first reading Apr 18 09:43
schestowitz Look at old interviews where he talks about it Apr 18 09:43
_boo_ schestowitz Apr 18 09:43
schestowitz Linus (yesterday, though maybe it’s too harsh): “But the GPLv3 people never seem to actually think things through. They  just shout “GPLv3! GPLv3! Everything is better in GPLv3!”” Apr 18 09:43
_boo_ he’s just awaiting for a good gplv4 Apr 18 09:43
schestowitz Why would it be ‘better’? Apr 18 09:44
_boo_ nooo Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz It would still oppose tivoisation Apr 18 09:44
oiaohm There would have been room for like a LGPL version for patents. Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz “Better” is very subjective and there are different parts as well as different projects to consider. Apr 18 09:44
oiaohm Ie cannot apply patent agianst the soruce code. Apr 18 09:44
_boo_ it just should fix the problems gpl3 has Apr 18 09:44
oiaohm If using it. Apr 18 09:44
oiaohm Items out side source code not effected. Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz Linus will have the upgrade. He spoke about it in the context of OpenSolaris. When I corresponded with Marten Mickos it seemed as though he too realised that this issue of compatibility won’t go away. Maybe it sucks for particular projects, but it could suck a lot more. Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz _boo_: would v3 be compatible with v4 then? Apr 18 09:45
_boo_ yea Apr 18 09:45
schestowitz Software patents also suck and I come across more devices and businesses that try to change Linux so as to own (control) it a little better with their hooks. Apr 18 09:45
schestowitz Linus WILL care Apr 18 09:45
_boo_ but gplv4 should be a lot more making sense Apr 18 09:45
schestowitz When he realised how he’s being ripped off by Oracle or whoever Apr 18 09:46
schestowitz Like if they screw Red hat and suddenly he loses developers Apr 18 09:46
schestowitz Oracle is in OIN, but it could do funny things if it wanted to. Like TiVoised Unbreakable servers Apr 18 09:46
schestowitz To sell h/w Apr 18 09:46
_boo_ gplv3 is not flawless Apr 18 09:47
schestowitz Actually, it’s different Apr 18 09:47
_boo_ that’s what i’ve learned from reading it Apr 18 09:47
schestowitz Oracle could generally use locking mechanisms to sell its ‘improved’ Linux with better btrfs (better fs) Apr 18 09:47
_boo_ that’s why it’s kinda spamming to make everybody to move to gplve Apr 18 09:47
_boo_ gplv3 Apr 18 09:47
_boo_ do when sane gplv4 is out i suspect that even linus will move to that Apr 18 09:48
schestowitz “Spamming” means something else altogether Apr 18 09:48
_boo_ and even if he won’t he will be forced to Apr 18 09:48
schestowitz You meant “nagging”, I think Apr 18 09:48
_boo_ by the community Apr 18 09:48
_boo_ just remember my words Apr 18 09:49
oiaohm Linux still could add a extra patent clause to GPLv2 Apr 18 09:51
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schestowitz “More benefits to Microsoft questioned at the Portuguese national parliament”: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/… Apr 18 09:57
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schestowitz Microsoft is such a poor crocodile: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Apr 18 10:14
schestowitz Here are some reviews of my favourite distro, Mandriva http://www.techenclave.com/open-source/… http://news.softpedia.com/news/Softpedi… Apr 18 10:16
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Omar87 Hi all. Apr 18 10:22
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DaemonFC schestowitz: Not counting the couple hundred separate hotfixes Apr 18 10:23
DaemonFC just SP1 and 2 alone fix 1,398 bugs in Vista Apr 18 10:24
Omar87 Hi Apr 18 10:34
schestowitz I heard about 2000 bugs Apr 18 10:39
schestowitz Hi, oiaohm Apr 18 10:39
schestowitz *Omar87: Apr 18 10:39
schestowitz There was chatter about over 2000 bugs a few months ago Apr 18 10:39
Omar87 Yes, schestowitz? Apr 18 10:40
schestowitz They should call it Windows 2000, not 7, but that would ruin the comparable reputation of win2k Apr 18 10:40
schestowitz Omar87: any news? Apr 18 10:40
Omar87 schestowitz: I’m not sure, lol. :) Apr 18 10:40
Omar87 schestowitz: Oh, yeah, have you heard of the programming concert sponsored by Microsoft? Apr 18 10:41
Omar87 schestowitz: The one called “Imagine Cup”. Apr 18 10:41
schestowitz Oh yeah Apr 18 10:44
schestowitz It makes me sick when I see it Apr 18 10:44
schestowitz Making the criminal some kind of althete superstar Apr 18 10:44
schestowitz it addresses the ignorant followers of stuff like Windows, which is the only thing they know. It’s ugly form of PR. Apr 18 10:45
Omar87 schestowitz: I bet it’s just another tactic for Microsoft to hunt some naive victims to steal their ideas like it did with Gary Killdall. Apr 18 10:45
schestowitz Not only Microsoft does this, BTW Apr 18 10:45
schestowitz It’s worse when Microsoft uses handicapped people to conceal its crimes and damages to society Apr 18 10:45
*amarsh04 is verifying the cause of a kernel bug that made his new machine only use 1 of 2 cpu cores Apr 18 10:46
Omar87 Yeah, much worse. Apr 18 10:46
*amarsh04 still has to contact Bdale Garbee about linux.corp.hp.com running on iis when it states “powered by Debian” Apr 18 10:47
schestowitz Turning a perfectly fine nation into “banana republic” (Microsoft in the US): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/mi… Apr 18 10:52
schestowitz amarsh04: Microsoft pressured Intel to move to IIS hosting Apr 18 10:52
schestowitz Maybe it did the same thing with HP Apr 18 10:52
DaemonFC schestowitz: Always wait for SP1 Apr 18 11:04
DaemonFC is what you’ll hear from any person that uses Windows Apr 18 11:04
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schestowitz Or Second Edition (98) Apr 18 11:08
schestowitz The “let’s try this again” edition Apr 18 11:08
schestowitz SP2 = “this time we try to get it right” edition Apr 18 11:09
schestowitz SP3 (XP): “our current OS is rubbish, so we decided to maintain old ones” Apr 18 11:09
schestowitz Of course, it’s not graven in stone Apr 18 11:09
schestowitz Vista 7= Vista SP2 Apr 18 11:10
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schestowitz Microsoft’s plan for Xen backfires (a little late though): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/… Apr 18 11:14
oiaohm Me was afk. Apr 18 11:16
oiaohm Xen back fire is more  tech one. Apr 18 11:17
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oiaohm idea of hypervisor having its own kernel has a major draw back that memory management and the like is not shared with Linux. Apr 18 11:18
oiaohm Xen is more dieing on tech grounds. Apr 18 11:19
oiaohm I think its funny MS has copied the design that cannot cope. Apr 18 11:19
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schestowitz BoycottNovell celebrates 6000 posts: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… I think I can pace myself up a bit. Apr 18 11:28
trmanco :O Apr 18 11:29
trmanco 6000 Apr 18 11:29
trmanco wow Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz Yes, how it flew by Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz At about 10/day, it’s 3600/year Apr 18 11:29
PetoKraus you’re efficient spammer Apr 18 11:29
PetoKraus :P Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz In USENET it’s about 50000 in 3 years Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz PetoKraus: it’s not spam. It’s a mashup blogging style. Perfectly acceptable. See Slashdot or Boingboing Apr 18 11:30
PetoKraus :) just joking man Apr 18 11:32
PetoKraus easy Apr 18 11:32
schestowitz I know, I know. Apr 18 11:33
schestowitz trmanco: dragged me into microblogging too Apr 18 11:34
trmanco :) Apr 18 11:34
schestowitz So I no longer do the old-generation stuff like Digg, which  is looking for people to just submit snippets of interest Apr 18 11:34
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schestowitz It ssems like twitter et al are exploding while Digg and Slashdot continue declining Apr 18 11:35
schestowitz Digg barely makes news headlines anymore. It’s all “twitter” in the news. It’s the new Digg as a media darling. Facebook is another. Apr 18 11:35
trmanco http://tinyurl.com/d7eq4d Apr 18 11:36
schestowitz You could count in Google news the recurrence of the different sites (FB, Digg, Twitter) and see how it changes over time, but there is no Google Trends for news items alone AFAIK, just for search volume/queries Apr 18 11:36
schestowitz We need to have Marti provide a good translation Apr 18 11:37
schestowitz It’s an IDG site BTW Apr 18 11:37
schestowitz They might make an English version at some stage Apr 18 11:37
PetoKraus i dunno Apr 18 11:37
PetoKraus i have been trough quite awkward situations lately Apr 18 11:37
PetoKraus so i considered micro-blogging it Apr 18 11:37
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PetoKraus or at least doing a blogpost with satire about it Apr 18 11:37
schestowitz DaemonFC: your post is in Vista 7 death watch: http://www.mixx.com/stories/477… Apr 18 11:38
schestowitz PetoKraus: for me, it mostly overlaps what I write here in IRC too. But many people don’t IRC, so there it goes… Apr 18 11:39
tacone na Apr 18 11:39
tacone usually it’s non-english website to copy english websites Apr 18 11:40
oiaohm http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2009/… Apr 18 11:48
oiaohm Its not like xen is not making type II VMM Apr 18 11:48
oiaohm So far only for windows. Apr 18 11:49
schestowitz Maureen O’Gara: Novell Client for Windows Revved (still obsessed with MSNovell) Apr 18 11:49
schestowitz oiaohm: of course Apr 18 11:49
schestowitz Citrix hates Linux Apr 18 11:49
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schestowitz http://linux.sys-con.com/node/554197 “”Virtualization Is Now a Key Strategic Theme,” [for Windows] Says Citrix CTO” Apr 18 11:51
oiaohm Xen suxs Apr 18 11:52
oiaohm Really suxs Apr 18 11:52
oiaohm 4 gb of real memory.  All hosted OS must get there memory. Apr 18 11:52
oiaohm So running more than 8 OS on a Xen with 4 G of memory is death wish. Apr 18 11:53
oiaohm Yet vmware can handle a lot more. Apr 18 11:53
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tacone schestowitz: ping Apr 18 11:58
schestowitz ACK Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz Sorry, got distracted Apr 18 11:59
tacone schestowitz: remember zeitgeist ? Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz yes Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz python Apr 18 11:59
tacone the python etc thing Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz yes Apr 18 11:59
tacone here’s an article Apr 18 11:59
tacone http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2009… Apr 18 11:59
tacone the last part is “Now the fun part…” Apr 18 11:59
tacone actually something funny’s in there. Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz “Jason Smith is working on a new project in Mono that uses the Zeitgeist engine.” Apr 18 12:01
tacone right Apr 18 12:01
schestowitz I remember the abstraction thing Apr 18 12:01
schestowitz Is anyone ELSE making a front end? Apr 18 12:01
tacone lol i dunno Apr 18 12:01
schestowitz http://jassmith.wordpress.com/ Apr 18 12:01
tacone i guess zeitgeist has already a frontend by the original developers Apr 18 12:02
schestowitz http://jassmith.wordpress.com/?s=novell Not Found. Apr 18 12:02
tacone http://jassmith.wordpress.com/?s=zeitgeist 404 Apr 18 12:02
trmanco trmanco@trmanco-desktop:~$ time oowriter m1.484s Apr 18 12:03
trmanco user0m0.024s Apr 18 12:03
trmanco sys0m0.048s Apr 18 12:03
trmanco that’s oo3 Apr 18 12:03
schestowitz 3.1 should be faster (maybe plat-dependent). I think it’s out this month Apr 18 12:11
schestowitz Jordan named All-Star  < http://www.journalgazette.net/article/2009… >. There’s this basketball player called Novell who keeps showing up Apr 18 12:12
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MinceR schestowitz: that’s only a speculation. antitrust authorities shouldn’t operate on speculations. they should oversee m$ until they lose their dominance on all markets. Apr 18 12:19
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schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar… The value of Microsoft-related skills/certifications took the biggest tumble. Apr 18 12:29
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MinceR hay Apr 18 12:52
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schestowitz See http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-148110… Apr 18 12:54
schestowitz Microsoft is crime Apr 18 12:54
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schestowitz BSI member testifies the BSI is a farce: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/o… Apr 18 13:27
oiaohm openxml is not MS first cheat. Apr 18 13:46
oiaohm Everyone forgets RTF. Apr 18 13:47
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oiaohm http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/…  I like this.  Starting to wake up what netbooks are about. Apr 18 13:57
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Apr 18 14:07
schestowitz oiaohm: I think I read it Apr 18 14:07
schestowitz Just briefly Apr 18 14:07
schestowitz He sometimes admits the turth about Microsoft Apr 18 14:08
schestowitz Unlike blind fans like Ina Shiels Apr 18 14:08
schestowitz He taught me that only Windows and Ofifce make much profit for Microsoft Apr 18 14:08
schestowitz Microsoft is hiding this pretty aptly Apr 18 14:08
schestowitz Merging of units too Apr 18 14:08
schestowitz Newspapers fight just like the Luddites once fought the machines. Apr 18 14:09
oiaohm Linux guy there and Windows guy there goes head to heat. Apr 18 14:13
oiaohm Gets very flaming between them when 1 lies badly. Apr 18 14:14
oiaohm One place with true blanced reporting. Apr 18 14:14
oiaohm I really wish I would make them share articals. Apr 18 14:15
oiaohm Secound I them Apr 18 14:16
schestowitz Where specifically? Apr 18 14:19
schestowitz And yes, it’s sad when reporting becomes some sort of a cockfight Apr 18 14:19
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schestowitz Wikis are a place where opinions can coverage Apr 18 14:19
oiaohm Between Linux watch and Microsoft watch it happens from time to time. Apr 18 14:21
oiaohm Both own to eweek. Apr 18 14:22
oiaohm Both have learned its better to report something you don’t like and it be the truth than start a flame war because you missed it. Apr 18 14:22
oiaohm Of course they still put spin on. Apr 18 14:22
oiaohm I was commneting on were the truth comes from in Microsoft watch. Apr 18 14:27
MinceR http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl… Apr 18 14:45
oiaohm Yes could. Apr 18 14:49
oiaohm Difference here Google has never refused taken down requests over items. Apr 18 14:49
schestowitz Not just eWeek does this Apr 18 14:49
schestowitz [Ziff Davis] Apr 18 14:50
schestowitz Almost any news network plays the good cop, bad cop game Apr 18 14:50
schestowitz It brings them traffic from both side and makes them defensile Apr 18 14:50
schestowitz It’s trolling Apr 18 14:50
oiaohm Not exactly trolling.  It was not exactly good cop bad cop.  Both were ripping out what the other had missed. Apr 18 14:53
oiaohm Ending up with windows supports and linux supporters starting to hate both of them. Apr 18 14:54
oiaohm So not good for traffic. Apr 18 14:54
oiaohm Ziff Davis kinda manages it so it don’t kinda don’t get out of control. Apr 18 14:55
oiaohm eweek leaves it to authors to show restraint. Apr 18 14:55
oiaohm Flame war between authors would have been a better term. Apr 18 14:56
oiaohm Yes when you want news you don’t want page after page of flamewar. Apr 18 14:56
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_boo_ news were always not about news… Apr 18 15:35
schestowitz What about were they then? Apr 18 16:04
Omar87 What is the only good thing Apple has ever done for the humanity? Apr 18 16:10
Omar87 The development of the the Common Unix Printing System, which is licensed under GPL. :) Apr 18 16:13
amarsh04 they bought that from Easyprint Apr 18 16:14
Omar87 amarsh04: I know. Apr 18 16:14
Omar87 amarsh04: And that’s why I didn’t say they built it, because they didn’t. Apr 18 16:14
amarsh04 it was fairly mature by the time Apple bought it… of course, ongoing development is welcome Apr 18 16:15
Omar87 amarsh04: From Wikipedia: “In February 2007, Apple Inc. hired chief developer Michael Sweet and purchased the CUPS source code.”. What exactly does that mean? Apr 18 16:18
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Omar87 amarsh04: I mean, what exactly do they mean by “purchased the CUPS source code”? The code is GPL’ed, so, how exactly did they buy it? Apr 18 16:19
MinceR they bought the copyright Apr 18 16:21
MinceR so that they could distribute the binaries without the source Apr 18 16:22
Omar87 Oh, okay. Apr 18 16:22
schestowitz I’m amending BN slightly Apr 18 16:34
schestowitz metatags ixed :-) Can you check? Apr 18 16:35
schestowitz We used to have sitemap.xml, but the site is too big for the sitemap plugin now (CPU limits). Google grabs 300k pages/month anyway. Apr 18 16:35
schestowitz Categories and calendar added. Apr 18 16:35
schestowitz It means more database load, but it ought to be fine overall. Apr 18 16:35
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twitter good morning, roy Apr 18 16:40
amarsh04 copyright for CUPS project source was assigned to Easyprint, so it could be sold by Easyprint’s owner(s) Apr 18 16:41
twitter CUPS is GPL, from /usr/share/doc/cups-common/copyright, “The Common UNIX Printing System(tm), (“CUPS(tm)”), is provided Apr 18 16:45
twitter under the GNU General Public License (“GPL”) and GNU Library Apr 18 16:45
twitter General Public License (“LGPL”), Version 2, with exceptions for Apr 18 16:45
twitter Apple operating systems and the OpenSSL toolkit.” Apr 18 16:45
twitter :) Apr 18 16:46
twitter So, you own CUPS. Apr 18 16:46
twitter Non free software makers will run out of money before they can really disrupt the free software world through purchasing companies they think are weak points. Apr 18 16:48
schestowitz Is there any WordPress plugin that take categories and makes summaries from headers in them or something of this sort? Apr 18 16:56
schestowitz Hi, twitter Apr 18 16:57
schestowitz How’s Microsoft? ;-) Apr 18 16:57
schestowitz I saw the Vista/MS logs cited in some sites this morning. The Slashdot ones… Apr 18 16:57
schestowitz amarsh04; Omar87: Apple has many reasons to not say the “L” word. Apple is scared of Linux and CUPS was about benefit to Apple. Apple realises that people can’t afford Macs right now, so Linux would be tempting to them Apr 18 16:58
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amarsh04 My impression of Apple Macintoshes was that they were supposed to “just work” and with OS X being BSD-based, CUPS was a natural fit for printing from Macs Apr 18 17:01
twitter Cool.  Got links to those sites? Apr 18 17:01
twitter You have been doing a good job of tracking M$ while I’ve been busy.  Thanks! Apr 18 17:02
twitter Just updated the Windows 7 Failure Log.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo… Apr 18 17:03
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_boo_ i can’t agree that 7 is vista2.0 Apr 18 17:04
_boo_ it’s rather vista 1.1 Apr 18 17:04
twitter non free software companies hype version numbers.  I’d call it Windows 0.14 by now. Apr 18 17:05
schestowitz Watch Microsoft crash: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe… Apr 18 17:06
twitter Their UI needs lots of love to get up to Enlightenment 0.16 quality standards. Apr 18 17:06
schestowitz while it lasts anyway Apr 18 17:06
twitter broken link Apr 18 17:06
schestowitz “Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine. “ Apr 18 17:06
twitter nice Apr 18 17:07
twitter I get ” Sorry, the requested story has not been found. Please  click here to go back.” Apr 18 17:07
schestowitz Firefox just crashed with over 1000 tabs Apr 18 17:07
schestowitz *100 Apr 18 17:07
schestowitz twitter: yes, they seem to have changed something Apr 18 17:07
_boo_ yeah, that’s a big flaw in ff design Apr 18 17:08
schestowitz That’s why there was a need to hurry Apr 18 17:08
_boo_ people usually use 3k tabs Apr 18 17:08
schestowitz _boo_: I’m testing URLs in my posts Apr 18 17:08
twitter that’s a lot of tabs.  how many desktops and browser windows do you lay them out over? Apr 18 17:08
schestowitz twitter: in this case it’s a case of mass-checking links Apr 18 17:08
schestowitz And one oft hem gave a .NET crash Apr 18 17:08
schestowitz Recgonisable page Apr 18 17:09
twitter ha ha. Apr 18 17:09
twitter !NET sucks Apr 18 17:09
twitter I generally lay mine tabs out 10 to 20 per instance of Konqueror but it’s rare that I have more than four or five. Apr 18 17:09
twitter 10 to 20 is a max. Apr 18 17:10
twitter Usually, I keep the tabs to a more sane 5 to 10 Apr 18 17:10
_boo_ i usually parse html with bare hands Apr 18 17:11
twitter When I run Konq, I usually start an independent browser for each window.  One crash does not take the others down. Apr 18 17:11
twitter boo, it might be easier to use a text based browser and parse with grep Apr 18 17:12
_boo_ nooo it’s for lazys Apr 18 17:12
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schestowitz The error in PRnewswire definitely changed Apr 18 17:13
schestowitz twitter: I see obs that SPECIFICALLY require knowledge of HTML, not front ene Apr 18 17:13
schestowitz *ends Apr 18 17:13
schestowitz BTW, FF 2.0 was more table than 3.0 for me. 2.0 was SUPER stable. Comparably, FF3 is not the same; it rarely runs for 1 whole week without a crash Apr 18 17:14
schestowitz A good metric might be something like crash/pageload Apr 18 17:15
twitter !NET aps crash at least once a day for me. Apr 18 17:15
twitter I got three failures one day. Apr 18 17:15
_boo_ i’m obviously doing smth wrong… ff doesn’t crash for me Apr 18 17:28
twitter Can’t say.  Still have FF2 but mostly others Apr 18 17:29
twitter speaking of doing it wrong, http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl… Apr 18 17:30
twitter I liked the “you’re better off taking the family to pizza” angle. Apr 18 17:31
twitter Slogan “The Internet does not start with an e” Apr 18 17:32
twitter or just “Internet does not start with an e” Apr 18 17:32
twitter :) Apr 18 17:33
twitter Avoid broken browsers, Internet does not start with an e. Apr 18 17:33
twitter Avoid broken OS, freedom ends where restrictions begin. Apr 18 17:34
MinceR “Everything Starts With An E” Apr 18 17:34
twitter oh my Apr 18 17:35
twitter Everything bad starts with an e Apr 18 17:35
MinceR (…and ends with a g) Apr 18 17:35
twitter When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Apr 18 17:36
twitter “Everything starts with an E”  Did the M$ people really come up with that? Apr 18 17:36
twitter It sounds like them. Apr 18 17:37
MinceR nope Apr 18 17:38
schestowitz Someone wants me to change the theme in BN. It’s too complicated to change the theme in BN because some choice of colours and CSS styles were made with this theme in mind. Apr 18 17:38
MinceR it’s the title of an Alice Deejay song Apr 18 17:38
Eruaran Quote of the day at work: “I think the same people who work at Microsoft also work at Symantec” Apr 18 17:38
twitter All part of the same echosystem Apr 18 17:39
twitter sic Apr 18 17:39
Eruaran It was a joke about the quality of the software Apr 18 17:39
twitter echo my eco Apr 18 17:40
Eruaran we had a customer whose computer wouldn’t boot Apr 18 17:40
twitter common Apr 18 17:40
Eruaran He had Vista… AND Norton 360… (glutton for punishment) Apr 18 17:41
twitter nice Apr 18 17:41
Eruaran Had problems with Norton so he called Symantec and let them remote into his system Apr 18 17:41
twitter did he haul it in an SUV? Apr 18 17:41
Eruaran After that it was totally screwed Apr 18 17:41
Eruaran haha Apr 18 17:41
Eruaran He brought it to us Apr 18 17:42
twitter I wonder if they tried to remove SP1. Apr 18 17:42
Eruaran those dumbasses at Symantec… seriously Apr 18 17:42
Eruaran they tried to install a newer version after uninstalling the old one Apr 18 17:43
twitter That was the advice given to a friend of my by Dell…. no boot. Apr 18 17:43
Eruaran but… you can’t “uninstall” Norton Apr 18 17:43
Eruaran you have to use the removal tool Apr 18 17:43
twitter Is there a restrictions song out there yet? Apr 18 17:43
Eruaran and then Norton blocked the network Apr 18 17:44
MinceR DRM song? Apr 18 17:44
MinceR or what? Apr 18 17:44
twitter Restrictions on my computer, restrictions in my dreams…. Apr 18 17:44
Eruaran We had a Vista system saying “media disconnected” Apr 18 17:44
Eruaran because of Norton Apr 18 17:44
twitter Yeah, I’m wondering if anyone wrote a DRM theme song. Apr 18 17:44
Eruaran Boot from a live Ubuntu CD Apr 18 17:45
Eruaran Network works fine Apr 18 17:45
Eruaran but anyway Apr 18 17:45
twitter Should have installed it as Vista SP2 Apr 18 17:45
Eruaran we fixed it for him Apr 18 17:45
twitter told them that they would have to use a compatibilty mode called Wine for their old software. Apr 18 17:46
MinceR strange, digg lied that they’d remove the diggbar for anonymous visitors Apr 18 17:46
twitter then tell them that they should take up problems with compatiilty with M$ themselves. Apr 18 17:47
MinceR well, Fuck The MPAA by Futuristic Sex Robotz does mention DRM Apr 18 17:47
MinceR but it’s mostly about the MAFIAA Apr 18 17:47
twitter Imagine the phone calls.  “I’m using Vista SP2, code named Ubuntu.  Why won’t Office 2007 work with Wine?” Apr 18 17:47
twitter :-D Apr 18 17:48
MinceR http://www.rockpapercynic.com/index.php Apr 18 17:48
twitter thanks Apr 18 17:48
MinceR np Apr 18 17:49
_boo_ maphiaaa Apr 18 18:11
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schestowitz EU Commission: SCO’s “Contractual Relationship with Microsoft Invoking Restraints of Competition” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/e… > Apr 18 18:34
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schestowitz I’ve been trying to see if there were automated ways of extracting something structural and useful, but it proved too hard. I reorganised the site a bit this afternoon (see if you can find the diffs). Apr 18 19:00
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schestowitz The USA and UK are a mess. It’s too hard to organise their mischiefs. Apr 18 19:10
schestowitz Guess who’s promoting Microsoft software, other than Novell? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/n… Apr 18 19:11
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_boo_ lol, i’ve got banned from #socialites because i’m intolerant to fags Apr 18 19:26
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schestowitz IDC is not reliable, but it claims a steep decline in Russia too (PC shipments): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne… Apr 18 19:56
_boo_ it’s because they raised prices after the new year Apr 18 19:58
_boo_ and only now they are somewhat near to what they were before the new year Apr 18 19:59
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_boo_ the prices were higher like about 25% Apr 18 20:03
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schestowitz Gavin Clarke still plays cheerleader for MS in El Reg: “Microsoft targets Barmy Army with Silverlight” When did Reg wrong? Apr 18 20:03
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schestowitz http://labs.daylife.com/journal… Apr 18 20:07
schestowitz Whenever he writes about Linux he’s being a f*ckwit, just polluting the Linux news with sick humour. Apr 18 20:09
schestowitz “RT @remixtures: Miltos Manetas is dedicating the First Internet Pavilion at the Venice Biennial to The Pirate Bay cause >>and now it’s art” http://twitter.com/glynmoo… Apr 18 20:11
schestowitz Update on wikileaks in Germany: Alternative DNS/de < http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Alte… > Apr 18 20:13
schestowitz Turns out the man who was killed in G20 protests had a stomach-related problem, probably caused by the police Apr 18 20:13
schestowitz “Net books (Asus EEPC) 10m sold worldwide 2008. 2009 21m predicted.” Apr 18 20:14
schestowitz here’s Microsoft’s tool for software patents in the EU: http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement… Apr 18 20:25
schestowitz Why the Pirate Bay verdict is GOOD for piracy  < http://neteffect.foreignpolicy… >. Will Google be sued next? Apr 18 20:25
schestowitz http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england… “Wiltshire Police officers have been banned from listening to music after the force received a £32,000 bill from the Performing Rights Society (PRS).” Apr 18 20:27
schestowitz making money from people’s ignorance: UK wine-sellers declare that wine has horoscopes, advise wine-drinkers to avoid certain moon-days < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/1… > Apr 18 20:29
schestowitz http://www.flickr.com/photos/norm… Apr 18 20:32
schestowitz Two technologists of Indian origin to decide for the US as CIO and CTO (good choices) http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/04… Apr 18 20:36
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amarsh04 after wasting a lot of time with re-installation, kernel bisection and possible bugs, I now conclude that the problem I had with the new pc was not resetting the BIOS to defaults after a BIOS upgrade Apr 18 20:39
schestowitz Balrog: new FUD against Apple: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph… Apr 18 20:40
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schestowitz http://www.google.com/news?hl=en&amp… Apr 18 20:40
schestowitz amarsh04: why did you update the BIOS? Apr 18 20:41
schestowitz Rebuttal to the Apple accusations: http://maratux.blogspot.com/2009/04… Apr 18 20:42
amarsh04 I was having some “fun” getting sound working and handling ACPI, schestowitz Apr 18 20:42
Balrog_ FUD against Apple, FUD against Linux, more FUD means they’re getting desperate Apr 18 20:42
amarsh04 I’d rather test the bleeding edge and keep it working on my own pcs than first encounter issues when someone else asks for help Apr 18 20:43
*_boo_ has quit () Apr 18 20:58
schestowitz Washington seems to be too corrupt to cater for its citizens’ needs: http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/35935 Apr 18 21:19
schestowitz KDE is collecting lots of new ideas for v4: http://blog.sayakbanerjee.com/?p=247 Apr 18 21:25
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schestowitz No ARM for OLPC? XO Laptop Gen 1.5: with VIA C7-M 1GHz Performance!! < http://www.olpcnews.com/laptops/xo… > Apr 18 21:38
Balrog_ ??? Apr 18 21:43
schestowitz Dumping Windows for Ubuntu <  http://livewithoutwork.com/2009/04/d… > \o/ Apr 18 21:47
schestowitz Balrog: !!! Apr 18 21:48
schestowitz “After playing around with Ubuntu for a week, and noticing further deteriorations (either that, or I was just not in the mood for being sympathetic with Windows) I decided that it was time for another wipe all, reinstall all session, only this time, I decided that I wasn’t going to reinstall Windows at all, I was going to have a Ubuntu only machine. “ Apr 18 21:49
Balrog_ that’s good. Apr 18 21:51
amarsh04 schestowitz, original announcement at http://lists.laptop.org/piperma… if olpc news doesn’t reference it Apr 18 21:54
schestowitz Fist mono, now this? Dconf in GNOME 3.0 : one step further to Windows registry ? < http://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-dconf_in_g… > Apr 18 21:55
schestowitz Putting/mapping the day Magee left the Reg and INQ, I can make sense of the change. Those two publications might be worth dumping now… :-( Apr 18 21:56
schestowitz Collapse of the economy using bar analogy: http://treebeard31.wordpress.com/200… “Oh come on, the crisp sound of the effervescence rising to the mouth of the bottle, now THAT is the most satisfying sound on the entire planet.” punchline: “The recession is worse than a divorce.You lose h Apr 18 22:00
schestowitz alf your fortune and still have your wife” Apr 18 22:00
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 18 22:02
schestowitz Hmmm.. this didn’t quite work: Switching To KDE From Gnome < http://www.customdistros.com/2009/0… > Apr 18 22:02
schestowitz “…Then they fight you” — Microsoft’s Inferiority Complex On Display in New Ads < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/ent… > Apr 18 22:07
MinceR they don’t have inferiority complex. they’re inferior. Apr 18 22:10
schestowitz Well, that’s saying the same thing. Apr 18 22:13
schestowitz “35% of NHS organisations already use Linux in the backbone” http://blog.procurementleaders.com/proc… Apr 18 22:23
schestowitz ZDNet UK seems to have added an anti-Linux/FOSS writer, Jonathan Bennett. Apr 18 22:26
schestowitz MOG’s blog on Linux features more Linux poison from Lori MacVittie: “Dear Slashdot: You Get What You Pay For” Apr 18 22:29
*ScrewMSFT (i=5d616bd2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-75db04683a2ed815) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz Hi Apr 18 22:30
trmanco lol Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz hehe Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz trmanco: what did you mean earlier? Apr 18 22:30
ScrewMSFT hi Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz About changing? Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz Oh, Iseee.. Apr 18 22:30
trmanco schestowitz, that dconf thing Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz ” Make a change to a different desktop manager, maybe KDE…” Apr 18 22:30
schestowitz KDE is also getting something similar though Apr 18 22:31
schestowitz As in GCong evolution Apr 18 22:31
trmanco it’s like the title suggests, first mono then dconf Apr 18 22:31
schestowitz Liqidat wrote about it last year Apr 18 22:31
schestowitz trmanco: later ActiveHacks Apr 18 22:31
trmanco ok so maybe I should go back to plain text? Apr 18 22:31
schestowitz “At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately [sic].” –Miguel de Icaza Apr 18 22:31
ScrewMSFT wtf #boycottnovel?? Apr 18 22:32
schestowitz Aye :-) Apr 18 22:32
schestowitz Why WTF? Apr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFT i must be in the wrong place Apr 18 22:32
schestowitz Based on the nick it sounds right though :-o Apr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFT i thought this was a microsoft hatemongering channel Apr 18 22:32
trmanco this is the right place to say  “ScrewMSFT” Apr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFT oh sweet Apr 18 22:33
ScrewMSFT yeah… um… Screw Microsoft!! Apr 18 22:33
trmanco I’ll brb Apr 18 22:33
ScrewMSFT i mean MSFT Apr 18 22:33
schestowitz As the price of Windows dives close to $0 MSFT’s last resort is making GNU/Linux expensive. Apr 18 22:33
schestowitz And some people wonder why Microsoft is the issue Apr 18 22:33
schestowitz And now Adobe for exampel.. Apr 18 22:33
schestowitz schestowitz: well, if we discuss particulars it helps a lot Apr 18 22:34
ScrewMSFT imagine if m$ made their own branded linux flavour to break the unix market Apr 18 22:34
schestowitz We often discuss here what Microsoft is thinking, scheming and executing Apr 18 22:34
schestowitz schestowitz: where would the margins be? Apr 18 22:34
schestowitz What about sw compat? Apr 18 22:34
schestowitz They are stuck with TudOS Apr 18 22:35
schestowitz They can TurdOS or Vista7 Apr 18 22:35
schestowitz That does not change the internals much. Apr 18 22:35
*ScrewMSFT (i=5d616bd2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-75db04683a2ed815) has left #boycottnovell Apr 18 22:36
schestowitz Linux Foundation using Drupal < http://buytaert.net/linux-founda… > Apr 18 22:38
schestowitz T’so won’t like this: Linux: Drivers Should NOT be Closed Source < http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/… > Apr 18 22:38
schestowitz Android all over the news and Google reports good results http://www.eetimes.eu/consumer/216500223 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/… http://ostatic.com/blog/confirmation… http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Search-Eng… Apr 18 22:39
MinceR T’so wants proprietary drivers? Apr 18 22:40
schestowitz You didn’t hear? Let me find it Apr 18 22:47
schestowitz http://thunk.org/tytso/blog/… Apr 18 22:48
schestowitz I’ll do a quick pass through MSFT news. Should be lots of fun… Apr 18 22:50
schestowitz very little news from them this week, matching “microsoft”. Just 430 Apr 18 22:51
schestowitz used to be ~600 at times (last year) Apr 18 22:51
schestowitz Slicing on “Vista” I hold 5 results Apr 18 22:51
schestowitz Let’s look.. Apr 18 22:51
schestowitz Just fluff and “Vista capable” Apr 18 22:52
schestowitz Wow. Only 3 matches for “Windows 7″ this week Apr 18 22:53
schestowitz Windows 7 used to outnumber Vista by a factor of 3-5. Maybe Edelman and the other shills didn’t pressure enough journalackeys this week (Easter) Apr 18 22:53
schestowitz That new survey totally rained on Vista7. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30229756/ Apr 18 22:54
schestowitz Vista Class Action Reaches End of the Road < http://www.consumeraffairs.com/ne… > Apr 18 22:55
schestowitz “Microsoft will NOT offer free support or warranty coverage on the XP software once I install it.” http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/17347 Apr 18 22:56
schestowitz XBox has already cost MSFT about $7bn in losses and XBox360 still defective http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-s… Microsoft Stuck Fixing Broken Xbox 360s For Free, Again (MSFT) Apr 18 22:58
schestowitz Yahoo and Microsoft… two nagetives don’t make positives… How Microsoft and Yahoo! Let Google Win < http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/conne… > Apr 18 23:01
*trmanco has quit (“ERROR: crap-talking overflow – Aborting”) Apr 18 23:02
MinceR i’d sentence people asking for proprietary drivers in linux to use crap like the official nvidia drivers Apr 18 23:04
MinceR and cope with the gazillion bugs in it Apr 18 23:04
MinceR and ask them if KMS works in the official proprietary nvidia and ati drivers, and if it doesn’t, why Apr 18 23:04
schestowitz Barclays says “near-term results could disappoint.” [for Microsoft] Apr 18 23:05
schestowitz Results should be out very shortly, I thin Apr 18 23:05
schestowitz *think Apr 18 23:05
MinceR sure, why not put the maintenance of drivers exclusively in the hands of companies who don’t care about our platform? Apr 18 23:05
schestowitz MinceR: T’So works for IBM. Enough said. Apr 18 23:05
schestowitz He’s CTO for kernelFoundation now, so it’s not a very good sign. Apr 18 23:05
MinceR we’ll see if they kill linux from within Apr 18 23:06
schestowitz Doubtful Apr 18 23:06
MinceR there will always be hurd :> Apr 18 23:06
schestowitz Just change it. There’s no GPLv3 in kernelFoundation Apr 18 23:06
schestowitz They also put their videos as blobs and patents up there Apr 18 23:06
schestowitz [flash, no Oggs ANYWHERE] Apr 18 23:06
schestowitz The toilet press has this headline: “Another Microsoft Enemy Joins EC Complaint” http://soa.ulitzer.com/node/924626 Apr 18 23:07
MinceR people seeking the joys of working around bugs in proprietary drivers should just go ahead and use windows Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz take-home message: opposing crime is being “an enemy” Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz Let’s try some headline Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz Anti-Reiser protesters want judtice Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz “Enemies of tyranny complain” Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz “Anti-death protests overwhelm streets” Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz Remember: in Microsoft’s world, crime is good Apr 18 23:09
schestowitz Opposition to crime is dissent Apr 18 23:09
schestowitz [H]omer has an analogy with a cop and criminals Apr 18 23:09
schestowitz The criminal hating the cop for catching him. That disgusting cop!! He must be so hatred. Apr 18 23:09
schestowitz *hated Apr 18 23:09
MinceR we have no cops though Apr 18 23:10
MinceR only criminals and people with very few means to protect themselves Apr 18 23:10
schestowitz Seeing lots of Apple vs Microsoft headlines makes me think of two people in their 90s fighting over who has more teeth left Apr 18 23:11
schestowitz The press is filled with this mafufactured drama story Apr 18 23:11
schestowitz They ignore the real competition between paradigms Apr 18 23:11
schestowitz It reminds me of how the big press treats election as white vs black (McCain vs Obama), where both represent the same funding source and interrests. People like Nader get ignored. Apr 18 23:12
schestowitz MinceR: so make a coalition, bring justice to consumer who can boycott or vilify, serving the role of a jury Apr 18 23:13
schestowitz That’s the least sites like Groklaw can do Apr 18 23:13
MinceR m$ and crApple should just step down to stop doing more damage Apr 18 23:14
MinceR i’m starting to miss the reliability of kde3 Apr 18 23:14
schestowitz Oh! Lookie here. CNET gives the soapbox to yet another pro-Microsoft analyst (Directions on Microsoft): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526… Apr 18 23:15
schestowitz Bias by sleection Apr 18 23:15
schestowitz CNET is f*cked with or without CBS buying it Apr 18 23:15
schestowitz All those HUGE conglomerates and scooping up all the sites and change agenda to praise the white collars. Apr 18 23:16
*schestowitz enjoys the reliability of kde3 Apr 18 23:16
schestowitz Can Microsoft Keep Windows Mobile Up-to-Date? < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conten… . Apr 18 23:17
schestowitz Microsoft wants to turn unemployed to Microsoft vassals: http://www.heraldnet.com/article… < Business Briefly: Local unemployed to get free tech training from Microsoft > Apr 18 23:17
schestowitz http://www.14wfie.com/Global… “Champion suggests investing in spyware like AVG, which is free, to avoid future viruses, and install Microsoft updates regularly. “ Apr 18 23:19
schestowitz Common logic suggests investing in a blank CD like Verbatim, which is free, to install Linux and avoid future viruses, and install good stuff regularly. Apr 18 23:20
schestowitz Important question: what does gates gain from this other than PR? http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/art… Apr 18 23:23
schestowitz Microsoft expected to post sharp drop in profit < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Micro… > Apr 18 23:24
schestowitz here is the reason why Microsoft is screaming like a baby at Apple|Linux: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/f… Apr 18 23:26
schestowitz Microsoft states the very obvious: Economic crisis threatens to spark rise in cyber crime http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bu… Apr 18 23:28
schestowitz My sister’s employer has just been infected by the beast of Redmond: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/… Apr 18 23:33
schestowitz Mounting job losses in non-financial sectors < http://www.reuters.com/article/rbss… > Apr 18 23:34
MinceR the linked article doesn’t seem to argue for proprietary drivers, afaict Apr 18 23:36
schestowitz here is the Mifrosoft-run VMware already serving Windows: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Gardner/?p=2901 Apr 18 23:37
schestowitz Is Facebook losing its glow? < http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/t… > Apr 18 23:39
schestowitz MinceR: Tso? Apr 18 23:39
MinceR indeed Apr 18 23:39
schestowitz Whoa. Watch this headline. It looks like it came from within Microsoft which uses the term “death spiral” epically.  http://www.pcmag.com/article2… Apr 18 23:41
schestowitz “by  Loyd Case” Did he learn English from Microsoft’s internal memos? He uses their terminology… Apr 18 23:41
MinceR also, NPD Apr 18 23:43
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-132-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 18 23:44
schestowitz wb, _Hicham_ Apr 18 23:48
schestowitz Did NPD say something similar? Apr 18 23:48
_Hicham_ Hi schestowitz, how are u doing? Apr 18 23:48
schestowitz NPD is just the sort of agency you hire for a dirty job Apr 18 23:48
schestowitz Like the mafia and a hitman Apr 18 23:48
schestowitz Tell them what figure you want, they’ll coordinate it Apr 18 23:48
schestowitz That’s how they make monet Apr 18 23:49
schestowitz They can select some shops in an area that you channel-stuff Apr 18 23:49
schestowitz They do this for all sorts of companies though. MSFT is a regular clients Apr 18 23:49
schestowitz *client Apr 18 23:49
schestowitz _Hicham_: I’m ok, tnx Apr 18 23:49
schestowitz I found some very cool things tonight Apr 18 23:50
schestowitz MS put its people as CEOs in vmware and juniper Apr 18 23:50
schestowitz http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal… Apr 18 23:50
schestowitz So now they serve Windows Apr 18 23:50
schestowitz very easy to show, the evidence is there. Apr 18 23:50
*kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 18 23:50
MinceR schestowitz: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0… refers to NPD Apr 18 23:53
_Hicham_ fuck vmware if it is infected with MS shit Apr 18 23:54
MinceR vmware did one thing well: breaking after a few kernel upgrades Apr 18 23:54
schestowitz MinceR: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT… Apr 18 23:56
schestowitz have lots of fun Apr 18 23:56
schestowitz like i said in usenet, make popcorn Apr 18 23:56
schestowitz that was before these reports Apr 18 23:56
schestowitz linux killed win margins Apr 18 23:56
MinceR i hope the market gets the point Apr 18 23:56
MinceR and sells MSFT shares like they’re on fire Apr 18 23:57
schestowitz OK, I’m done with dinner. Can type with both hands now. :D Apr 18 23:57
tacone shall we expect new trials ? Apr 18 23:57
MinceR not really Apr 18 23:57
tacone sco/black hole effect ? Apr 18 23:57
MinceR at least as long as obama thinks he’s paid enough Apr 18 23:57
schestowitz tacone: some inevestors intended to sue Apr 18 23:57
schestowitz THe ones who spoke to me Apr 18 23:57
tacone to sue who ? Apr 18 23:58
schestowitz Missing money, bad direction. Apr 18 23:58
tacone oh Apr 18 23:58
schestowitz tacone: I’lll get links Apr 18 23:58
tacone i meant, shall we expect new trials from ms to other companies ? Apr 18 23:58
schestowitz tacone: maybe. Apr 18 23:58
schestowitz They opened the pandora’s box Apr 18 23:58
schestowitz tacone: this is a recent and decent summary: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/0… Apr 18 23:59
schestowitz I included there (with permission) what one representative told me. Apr 18 23:59
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A Single Comment

  1. newsshop said,

    April 19, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Gravatar

    Mark Shuttleworth speaks to Novell about coordination, but it does not work out

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