Bonum Certa Men Certa

#boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 2nd, 2008

*** Logfile started
*** on Thu May 29 23:51:08 2008
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Join You have joined the channel #boycottnovell (
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode sets the channel mode to 'no messages from outside'.
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode sets the channel mode to 'secret'.
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Created This channel was created on 05/29/2008 11:51:07 PM.
*** Logfile started
*** on Sun Jun 1 13:33:08 2008
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:08] Join You have joined the channel #boycottnovell (
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:08] Channel [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify!
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:18] <dsmith_> hi roy
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:35] Mode Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:35] Created This channel was created on 06/01/2008 12:47:33 PM.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:35:28] Join henrytheeigthiam has joined this channel (i=henry@gateway/tor/x-96321d2920a94cd3).
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:36:40] <henrytheeigthiam> hello schestowitz
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:30] <henrytheeigthiam> hello douglas
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:38] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, hello
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:47] <dsmith_> hi
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:40:49] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, switched from roadrunner to comcast, I see
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:06] <dsmith_> I am not dsmith
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:11] <henrytheeigthiam> VA to MD?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:13] <dsmith_> er.. *the* dsmith
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:19] <henrytheeigthiam> no?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:30] <dsmith_> my name yes, but another person
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:47] <henrytheeigthiam> who are you, then?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:52] <dsmith_> I have never used roadrunner
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:56] <dsmith_> dsmith...
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:42:19] <dsmith_> er...dsmith_
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:42:22] <dsmith_> :)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:53:28] <schestowitz> Hey there.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:55:43] <schestowitz> I've not noticed activity here until just moments ago and I was going to leave for a while (not the channel, the office).
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:01:41] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, I see
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:02:14] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, have you registered the channel?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:00] <schestowitz> I haven't, no. How do I do this? I think I'll read the HOWTOs tomorrow. I'm off for about 7 hours. I'll stay on this channel (idle). :-)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:24] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, you probably won't notice much action until you publicize it and invite others to collaborate here with you! =)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:56] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, #freenode is a good help, especially since they've just switched over
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:07] <henrytheeigthiam> some issues with services may have changed
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:23] <henrytheeigthiam> the dsmith_ who isn't dsmith may also help, if he knows anything
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:40] <henrytheeigthiam> unless it's here just to log
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:05:44] <dsmith_> it should be the same as DALnet
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:05:45] <dsmith_> one min
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:24] Notice -ChanServ- Insufficient parameters for INFO.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:24] Notice -ChanServ- Syntax: INFO <#channel>
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:36] Notice -ChanServ- Channel #boycottnovell is not registered.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:49] <dsmith_> ok... its not registed and the commands are the same as Dalnet
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:50] <dsmith_> so....
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:06] Notice -ChanServ- Invalid parameters for REGISTER.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:06] Notice -ChanServ- Syntax: REGISTER <#channel>
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:11] <dsmith_> ./chanserv register [#channelname] [password] [description]
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:19] <dsmith_> without the period
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:33] <dsmith_> * This will register your channelname with the selected password and a description of what the channel is about. The description is not important, but must be included in the command. For example: /chanserv register #AllysPlace shazam Ally's very own channel.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:48] <dsmith_> there you go
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:55] <henrytheeigthiam> some commands/features have changed
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:08:06] <henrytheeigthiam> Dalnet? who uses that?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:09:48] Nick henrytheeigthiam is now known as dsmith___.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:21] <dsmith___> what do you know dsmith_
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:28] <dsmith___> I am not dsmith either but now I am dsmith___
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:32] <dsmith_> lol
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:57] <dsmith___> what a small world
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:00] Nick You are now known as Steve_Ballmer.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:00] Notice -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:03] <Steve_Ballmer> hehe
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:08] <Steve_Ballmer> <---monkey boy
Steve_Ballmerdamn its registered....
* Steve_Ballmer blames Linux.
* Steve_Ballmer is now known as dsmith_
* dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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dsmith___log restart?
* dsmith___ is now known as notamonkey
dsmith_I log all chats
dsmith_but just for myself
dsmith_typically I will have a queston, so I will skim my logs in ubuntu
notamonkeyme too
notamonkeybut I provide mine to several outlets
notamonkeyI'm a mercenary
* dsmith_ disdn't realize one could do that
notamonkeyespecially for various law mil and gov orgs
notamonkeyit's not about money, it's about achievements
notamonkeyeach scumfuck I help rid the earth of, the better
notamonkeylooks like schestowitz has this one under control, along with a shadowy friend, there's no need for me here
notamonkeygood luck schestowitz
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fredbenJIman: why am I here?
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benJImanWhat's going on in dis channel?
* benJIman reads the topic
fredI made you a topic, but I eated it.
dsmith_hello everyone
lambyPray, please inform me what is currently happening in this communications medium?
dsmith_I think he is away
* Received a CTCP PING 1212345452 from dsmith_
dsmith_[Whois] schestowitz has been idle for 34 minutes and 41 seconds.
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dsmith_i need to go myself..
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foo-nixomg wtf bbq!
foo-nixit exists!
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OrthemisI?ve been reading your website recently.  It?s mostly great, though some articles you link to are such thin gruel that they lack interest.  
OrthemisI also wanted to mention that you don?t come across as fanatic or strident.  I get so tired of seeing the spineless weasels of the world make that claim.  Anyway, keep up the good work.  I learned how to IRC just to tell you this.
OrthemisAlso, I was wondering I should use FAT32 partition to share information now that MS has a patent.  I haven't thought through these issues as well as you have.
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jmpnopThank you folks of BN, I learned a lot by reading trough the pages and archives!
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jmpnopstill, how acute is the problem anyway? What can they do to GNU/Linux? Its used all over the world. Are sites in China or Hungaria stop hosting distro images because some Judge in the USA tells them to?
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ZiggyFishgood morning
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jbhtrying to figure out irc
jbhit's been years since I last used it ;)
dsmith_its easy
schestowitzI'm back. Just catching up now.
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dsmith_roy regsiter the channel
schestowitzWill do... in just a moment. I just caught up with some stuff.Newham's doing the Microsoft legwork again (Get the Facts tour in the UK).
schestowitzIs this it?
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cozubhuh, really :)
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schestowitzHey there.
schestowitzOne thing we can try and do is explore Novell's recent report and see what they concealed. I guess it might be something worth discussing.
hassanibraheemgood, got a link?
schestowitzHere is last year's report (December):
schestowitzThis is the corresponding document on the SEC's site:
schestowitzSome quick analysis:
schestowitzThis basically showed that Novell pays Microsoft for sales it makes, based on volume.
schestowitzHere is the latest report's synopsis:
schestowitzFull report here:
* tessier ( has joined #boycottnovell
tessierschestowitz: Hey Roy :)
schestowitzIt can probably be viewed free of charge if you find it on the SEC's Web site. It would be good to see how they categorise products and which divisions performed poorly (Novell would report nothing about it to the press, but it has to put it in the report).
schestowitzHey, tessier. Nice to have you online. We're discussing what Novell might be hiding from the press. Microsoft eats their Netware lunch.
* tessier is Tracy Reed
* tessier waits while everyone googles
schestowitzYou're a friend of Rex, I think. No?
tessierYeah, sort of. He and I never met but we have exchanged a couple emails.
schestowitzSadly, he is quite fond of SUSE Linux. He defends it for technical reasons. alone (for those lacking context, Rex Ballard works at IBM). I think that IBM is not doing enough to fight this (it hardly ever did). IBM's VP of standards shows disdain for Mono though. IBM still has arrangements with Novell.
schestowitzOh, one more thing.
schestowitzIBM was there when the Microsoft-Novell deal was signed. IBM's view on patents is something to keep in mind.
* yoonki1 ( has joined #boycottnovell
schestowitzI've just found this:
yoonki1hi roy
yoonki1had a meeting with Oliver Bell almost 2 weeks ago
yoonki1and he asked about you
schestowitzSo Datamation, whom I sometimes write for, is still airing that Novell FUD. It also does Endrlie [sic] pieces. *sigh* And then there's this E-mail marketer (read: legalised spammer) with roots in Novell: (Cynthia Richmond)
schestowitz@ <yoonki1>: Heh. Did the "F" word come up?
yoonki1do you know him?
yoonki1he tried to downplay your efforts
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schestowitzI can imagine. What is his professional affiliation (or what puts food on his table)?
yoonki1He works for Microsoft
yoonki1and is stationed in the Singaporean office
yoonki1he is "reaching out" to FOSS guys here
schestowitz"Stationed". Like colonies.
schestowitzSo he's like the Singaporean Hilf.
schestowitz"We come in peace"
yoonki1peacemaker of sorts
schestowitzThe main problem are those who buy it. Even Asay falls for it.
yoonki1and tries to convince us that Microsoft is trying very hard to open up
schestowitzOpen up like a bear trap.
yoonki1Anyway, here is some evidence that Microsoft has been waging a war against ODF before OOXML
schestowitzSomeone commented on that article which was published about me in LinuxToday a couple of days ago. It said that all Microsoft cares about is profit. Profit, profit, profit.
schestowitzMicrosoft measures success in terms of short-term monetary gains.
schestowitzHas Oliver offered to take you to lunch yet?
yoonki1We told Oliver that the difference between MS and IBM is that IBM thinks in decade long biz plans, while MS just fights for the quarterly profits
yoonki1we took oliver out for dinner ;-)
yoonki1food in Msia is cheap.
yoonki1He asked me if I knew u
schestowitzSpeaking of which, Microsoft is cooking it, you know? That new CFO is some chap from the paper industry in NZ. The previous guy took a hike. The new appointment is odd.
yoonki1I said no, just from ur blog.
yoonki1Coincdentally, Ollie will be migrating to NZ soon.
schestowitzPJ tried to get your E-mail addy. Did she get to you at the end?
yoonki1but still doing the same from Spore
tessierSingapore is a fun place
schestowitzNever spoke to you?
yoonki1Only last year.
tessierAs is Malaysia. I visited both places a couple years ago.
yoonki1tessier: give us a buzz next time ure down
schestowitzIt's good to gather evidence from those Microsoft ran smear gigs against.
tessieryoonki1: Will do. We had a good friend there give us the tour. It was great.
schestowitz@yk, I'm reading your latest post at the moment. Have you seen the photo of Patrick and chaps from Microsoft yet? Maybe they took him out to too many dinners.
yoonki1schestowitz: Ditesh wrote the post, no me.
tessierI've been getting a kick out of the local Windows User Group
tessierSuch a huge different from the LUG
yoonki1schestowitz: yeah, I saw the SC34 outing photo.
yoonki1they after all will have to work together in SC34.
yoonki1Its hard being at polar opposites when in the same room.
schestowitz@yk, how did Microsoft (and chums) approach your superiors? Was there slander too?
yoonki1I think Durusau is just playing nice ... for his own sake.
yoonki1schestowitz: hah.
schestowitzSee, that's a problem (wait while I explain)
yoonki1schestowitz: I will blog about that one day
yoonki1schestowitz: its been a year already, and I still feel quite angry
schestowitzHave you read the article "killing with kindness"? It's social engineering.
schestowitzIt's embarrassing to write about it, I know, but that's the only way for the story to be told.
yoonki1Oh. Im just reading it now.
schestowitzI had the Munchkins (Gary Stewart, active since the O/S2 Slog) use fake nyms and mass mailing the university, even the President. I can't let them know that they were successful because they would then repeat it.
schestowitzThat's just one of the earlier incidents (2005 or 2006) when I was still busy with more academic research. I was advised to keep close to a lawyer because of the libel (soon afterwards came the 'castration' fables) that trolls still cite as 'evidence'.
yoonki1Do you have copies of MS making use of that evidence?
schestowitzPJ told me I must do so, but I rely on Google retaining it.
schestowitzIt's difficult to accuse people because although I have addresses they all post from Web proxies and zombie PCs. Been like this for a decade. They hide traces.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:23:51 2008
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:24:40 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:24:40 2008
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:25:19 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:25:19 2008
schestowitzOK, I've just registered the channel as 'dsmith' had suggested.Jun 02 09:43
*yoonki1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 02 10:49
*yoonkit ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 10:50
schestowitzyoonkit, are you there?Jun 02 10:52
[H]omerHey RoyJun 02 10:52
schestowitzHas there been anything going  on here for the past 30 minutes? I got nothing.Jun 02 10:53
schestowitzI was just about to test and see if there was a technical issue.Jun 02 10:53
[H]omerI've just come back, so dunnoJun 02 10:53
schestowitzHmmm...Jun 02 10:54
schestowitzI've just posted a pointer about Fedora in BN.comJun 02 10:54
schestowitzOne coming to deal a little blow to Novell... just needs quick proofreading.Jun 02 10:55
yoonkitschestowitz: yesJun 02 10:55
[H]omerOKJun 02 10:55
[H]omerRoy, you should set up ChanServ on the channel as wellJun 02 10:56
schestowitzyk, I received nothing from 9:09 to 10:52 (my time).  Was there only silence *here*? Then I got (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)Jun 02 10:56
schestowitzHow is this done? I haven't done IRC since I was about 13.Jun 02 10:56
[H]omerlike this "/msg ChanServ set #boycottnovell guard on"Jun 02 10:56
[H]omerlike this "/msg ChanServ help" for all the commandsJun 02 10:57
schestowitz"/msg ChanServ set #boycottnovell guard onJun 02 10:57
schestowitzOops.Jun 02 10:57
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell guard onJun 02 10:57
[H]omer:)Jun 02 10:57
-ChanServ-Channel #boycottnovell is not registered.Jun 02 10:57
schestowitzOh, I've done the registration hours ago. Probably need to just wait now.Jun 02 10:58
[H]omerHave you just now registered your nick on FreeNode?Jun 02 10:59
[H]omerCos if you gimmie OPs I can probably do it for you (been on here for years)Jun 02 10:59
schestowitzI filled out one of these: 02 10:59
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to [H]omerJun 02 11:00
yoonkitschestowitz: my line is bad.... keeps cutting off.. and Ive been silent all this whileJun 02 11:01
[H]omerhmmJun 02 11:01
schestowitzIt was dsmith who instructed me. It's readers that wanted a channel.Jun 02 11:01
schestowitzyk, that's good to know. It seemed like a silence too long.Jun 02 11:02
schestowitzThanks, [H]omeJun 02 11:02
schestowitz[H]omer (bad copy and paste again)Jun 02 11:03
[H]omerYou need to type this, otherwise the channel will be registered to meJun 02 11:03
[H]omer"/msg ChanServ REGISTER #boycottnovell"Jun 02 11:03
>ChanServ<REGISTER #boycottnovellJun 02 11:03
-ChanServ-You are not logged in.Jun 02 11:03
schestowitzThanks.Jun 02 11:03
schestowitzNovell appears to be playing Asay at the moment, just like Microsoft plays everyone. I'll post about it in a minute.Jun 02 11:04
*ChanServ sets mode -s #boycottnovellJun 02 11:05
*ChanServ sets mode +t #boycottnovellJun 02 11:05
*ChanServ sets mode +c #boycottnovellJun 02 11:05
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 11:06
* gives channel operator status to ChanServJun 02 11:06
[H]omerwe have channel guardJun 02 11:06
[H]omerI'll transfer ownership back nowJun 02 11:06
schestowitzSounds like intellectual (imaginary) property, but thanks!Jun 02 11:07
*lamby ( has left #boycottnovellJun 02 11:08
[H]omerYour nick isn't registered, that's why you weren't able to claim the channel as a founderJun 02 11:09
schestowitzI'll search info on how to register. Just a moment...Jun 02 11:10
[H]omertype "/msg NickServ register schestowitz"Jun 02 11:12
[H]omeroops, wrong syntaxJun 02 11:15
>NickServ<register schestowitz r@schestowitz.comJun 02 11:15
-NickServ-You cannot use your nickname as a password.Jun 02 11:15
-NickServ-Syntax: REGISTER <password> <email>Jun 02 11:15
[H]omertype "/msg NickServ register <password>"Jun 02 11:15
>NickServ<register xxxxx r@schestowitz.comJun 02 11:16
-NickServ-An email containing nickname activation instructions has been sent to 02 11:16
-NickServ-If you do not complete registration within one day, your nickname will expire.Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-schestowitz is now registered to, with the password xxxxx.Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ- Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-Freenode is a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center, anJun 02 11:16
-NickServ-IRS 501(c)(3) (tax-exempt) charitable and educational organization.Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-For frequently-asked questions about the network, please see theJun 02 11:16
-NickServ-FAQ page ( 02 11:16
schestowitzYou beat me to it with the instructions by a few seconds. Ta for that.Jun 02 11:16
[H]omerBTW: I set up a channel for Slated too ( #slated )Jun 02 11:16
[H]omerOK this will work now. Type "/msg ChanServ SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowitz"Jun 02 11:19
[H]omerThen you're all setJun 02 11:19
schestowitzI need/MSG NickServ VERIFY REGISTER schestowitz tongtkbqbmguJun 02 11:19
[H]omerCheck your Email for a confirmation messageJun 02 11:20
schestowitzCopy and paste artifacts again.Jun 02 11:20
>NickServ<VERIFY REGISTER schestowitz tongtkbqbmguJun 02 11:20
-NickServ-schestowitz has now been verified.Jun 02 11:20
-NickServ-Thank you for verifying your e-mail address! You have taken steps in ensuring that your registrations are not exploited.Jun 02 11:20
*services. sets mode +e schestowitzJun 02 11:20
>ChanServ<SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowitJun 02 11:20
-ChanServ-schestowit is not registered.Jun 02 11:20
>ChanServ<SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowitzJun 02 11:20
-ChanServ-Transfer complete: schestowitz has been set as founder for #boycottnovell.Jun 02 11:20
schestowitzOK, it's done now.Jun 02 11:21
schestowitzThanks for the help, mate.Jun 02 11:21
[H]omer"/msg NickServ info schestowitz"Jun 02 11:21
[H]omer"/msg ChanServ info #boycottnovell"Jun 02 11:22
[H]omerFounder    : schestowitzJun 02 11:22
[H]omerCool, all doneJun 02 11:22
schestowitzNickServ info schestowitzJun 02 11:22
>NickServ<info schestowitzJun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Information on schestowitz (account schestowitz):Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Registered : Jun 02 10:22:40 2008 (6 minutes, 46 seconds ago)Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Last addr : 02 11:22
-NickServ-Last seen : nowJun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Logins from: schestowitzJun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Nicks : schestowitzJun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Email : (hidden)Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Flags : HideMailJun 02 11:22
-NickServ-*** End of Info ***Jun 02 11:22
>ChanServ<info #boycottnovellJun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Information on #boycottnovell:Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Founder : schestowitzJun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Registered : Jun 02 10:12:35 2008 (17 minutes, 2 seconds ago)Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Mode lock : +ntc-slkJun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Flags : GUARDJun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-*** End of Info ***Jun 02 11:22
[H]omerYou need to prefix with "/msg"Jun 02 11:23
[H]omerThey're bots ... you talk to them :)Jun 02 11:23
schestowitzYup, I got it working the second time (you just don't see it). I copy and paste too much and too quickly.Jun 02 11:23
[H]omercopy paste maniacJun 02 11:24
[H]omer:)Jun 02 11:24
[H]omerOK you can deop me nowJun 02 11:24
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from [H]omerJun 02 11:24
[H]omerjoin #slated tooJun 02 11:25
[H]omerIt's lonely in there :(Jun 02 11:25
[H]omerI have this session running on the server, so it'll stay up permanentlyJun 02 11:25
[H]omerAlthough I don't need to cos I (we) have ChanServJun 02 11:26
[H]omerChanServ protects the account from netsplit takeovers, etcJun 02 11:26
[H]omerYou could quit and come back, and the channel would still be active ... and you still get auto-OPsJun 02 11:27
[H]omerhow about setting a "/topic"?Jun 02 11:28
schestowitzThis brings back childhood memory (IRC days). I quite IRC like 10 years ago and IM about 4 years ago. Then I become addicted to ET.Jun 02 11:28
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the anti-FOSS dealsJun 02 11:29
[H]omerYeah, I did IRC for years until ICQ came outJun 02 11:29
[H]omerThen ICQ started to suck and the software got huge and bloatedJun 02 11:29
schestowitzTo be embraced by AOL, INNOVA~1 by Microsoft and then extended.Jun 02 11:29
[H]omerI hate IM now.Jun 02 11:29
[H]omerYaJun 02 11:30
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implicationsJun 02 11:34
[H]omercoolJun 02 11:34
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell topiclock onJun 02 11:34
-ChanServ-The TOPICLOCK flag has been set for channel #boycottnovell.Jun 02 11:34
[H]omerJust like BN.comJun 02 11:34
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell secure onJun 02 11:35
-ChanServ-The SECURE flag has been set for channel #boycottnovell.Jun 02 11:35
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell entrymsg Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJun 02 11:36
-ChanServ-The entry message for #boycottnovell has been set to Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJun 02 11:36
[H]omerSo I think I'm wearing down the Fedora devs to rethink Mono and FirefoxJun 02 11:40
[H]omerx fingersJun 02 11:40
schestowitzYes, and it won't go down well with Waugh et alJun 02 11:45
schestowitzI guess it's fair to say on the record that I spoke to some *ahem* people (unnamed) who are friends of Miguel. He does not mean to cause harm harm, but deep inside he probably knows what he does.He knows the side effects.Jun 02 11:46
[H]omerThe friend of my enemy is also....Jun 02 11:48
schestowitzMiguel thinks both sides are friends. They are. To *him*. It's conquer and divide.Jun 02 11:49
[H]omerI've just been given this as a response to my queries about Mono and Firefox: 02 11:50
schestowitzOne in four US computers infected: 02 11:50
schestowitzGolly. USAToday said 4 in 10 is a zombie (China has many).Jun 02 11:51
[H]omerApparently even RMS is "overlooking" the non-Free firmware issue.Jun 02 11:51
schestowitzWhat is he doing these days anyway? Haven't read anything in a while.Jun 02 11:52
[H]omerdunnoJun 02 11:53
[H]omerI've come to the conclusion that my views on Freedom are even more radical that Stallman'sJun 02 11:53
[H]omerwhich is saying quite a lotJun 02 11:54
cozubsounds scary :-PJun 02 11:54
hassanibraheem[H]omer: he isn't overlooking the non-free kernel issueJun 02 11:55
hassanibraheemhe mentioned that issue in a talk I watched recentlyJun 02 11:55
schestowitzIf you don't stand up for freedom, you lose it. Show a gap, someone will take advantage. Always. Fight to keep oxygen free, too. :-) Well, suffocating might lead to rebellion... take people to the streets.Jun 02 11:55
hassanibraheemdon't remember which, but RMS's view on freedom on the web is strangeJun 02 11:56
schestowitzYeah, on May 1st I attended a talk where he spoke about it. He was showing his XO/OLPC.Jun 02 11:56
hassanibraheemin the Manchester talk I remember he mentioned Google Docs for exampleJun 02 11:57
schestowitz@cozub: the media downplays the seriousness of Windows chaos. It can otherwise cause panixJun 02 11:57
[H]omer"At present, essentially all GNU/Linux distros include the non-free firmware, because it was too hard to remove.  So we decided to overlook the issue for the time being" ~ RMS : 02 11:57
hassanibraheem[H]omer: strange, isn't that what linux-libre doing in BLAG now?Jun 02 11:58
schestowitzIt would not surprise me if the cost of Windows (in)security exceeds a quarter of a trillion worldwide.Jun 02 11:58
hassanibraheem*is doingJun 02 11:58
[H]omerhmmJun 02 11:58
[H]omerdunno how old that quote is thoughJun 02 11:59
[H]omerDate: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:45:49 -0500Jun 02 11:59
[H]omerHe must have tightened up his policy since thenJun 02 12:00
hassanibraheemI don't think linux-libre was his idea anywayJun 02 12:00
[H]omer"Why Linus Torvalds tolerates and distributes this I have no idea. He surely has some rationale buried in a LKML flamewar somewhere, but it doesn\u2019t change the fact that there is clearly non-Free code in the Linux kernel." ~ 02 12:03
[H]omerWell Linus does "like Tivoization", after allJun 02 12:04
[H]omerYes, I am far too radical, obviouslyJun 02 12:04
hassanibraheemexactly, it's quite strange, with those big names like IBM , Red Hat, Google, shouldn't they take those non-free parts out?Jun 02 12:05
[H]omer;)Jun 02 12:05
hassanibraheemeven legally, they should care about thisJun 02 12:05
[H]omerI think I'd like to give BLAG a spin, to see how well it copes with my systemsJun 02 12:06
[H]omerWell I've basically just been slapped down by Rahul Sundaram of Fedora with the old "if it's good enough for RMS, it's good enough for us" routineJun 02 12:08
[H]omerTrouble is, RMS doesn't give special consideration to the predatory nature of MicrosoftJun 02 12:08
schestowitzI'm not sure Linux was ever a big fan of freedomJun 02 12:09
schestowitzHis dad was an activist for communist as I understand it, but Linus started Linux as proprietary (briefly).Jun 02 12:09
hassanibraheemhe was developing proprietary kernel modules for some company IIRC, right?Jun 02 12:10
schestowitzI'm not sure what Transmesa hired him for specifically. He is now paid by Intel, which is their rival.Jun 02 12:11
[H]omerTo put it as diplomatically as I can ... the guys at the "top" of the key areas of Free Software are obviously "pragmatists".Jun 02 12:14
[H]omerI hate pragmatism with a passionJun 02 12:15
schestowitzWhich guys? The lawyers or engineers? (or the Linux Foundation *sigh*)Jun 02 12:16
schestowitzI think we must look more at analogous situation where people fought suppression of some kind. Apartheid, feminism/sexism, slavery, imperialism, etc. Did they make concessions to achieve their goals?Jun 02 12:18
[H]omerI'm no historian, but somehow those goal were reached ... usually by shedding a lot of bloodJun 02 12:21
[H]omerI hope I don't have to kill people just to get them to wake up and smell the slavery :)Jun 02 12:21
schestowitzSome weeks ago I watched some videos (slightly political) to shed light -- not blood -- on these questions. It's fascinating. Some day in the future, assuming FOSS prevails, people would/might look back at the 70/80-?? era when closing of software was experimented with.Jun 02 12:24
schestowitzGNU wares at another school (news): 02 12:25
hassanibraheemgreat news, as I'm from egypt :)Jun 02 12:28
[H]omerWhat is your (all of you) honest opinion of this: "We think there is nothing wrong with distributing free software that implements patented ideas, as long as the patent holders don't stop you." ~ RMSJun 02 12:30
[H]omerI just sent this to the fedora-devel list: "IMO there are two types of threat - direct and implied. One may easily infer that Microsoft's intentions towards Free Software are not honourable. Are the Christians going to wait until the lions bite their heads off, before deciding to run away?"Jun 02 12:31
schestowitzHe fights swpatents.Jun 02 12:31
hassanibraheem[H]omer: I don't fully agree, but he's right, the patent system is broken, and noboJun 02 12:32
schestowitzWe need to fight this at the core too, but only Fester is rattling. PJ reckons they'll become SCO2.Jun 02 12:32
hassanibraheem* nobody knows what are the borders of such patent claimsJun 02 12:32
[H]omerI think the key word here is "motive"Jun 02 12:33
[H]omerMicrosoft's motives are clearJun 02 12:33
hassanibraheemhowever, it'd be silly to write software that the developer knows microsoft has a patent on :)Jun 02 12:33
schestowitzHomer, it's also an issue of control, not just swpatents.Jun 02 12:34
[H]omerA man with a knife is just a chef chopping carrots, but a psycho with a knife is a killer. Apparently RMS does not make allowances for that WRT MicrosoftJun 02 12:34
schestowitzThere's more than one drum to bang on. If Linux adopts .NET, it might kill Java (GPL). We need Sun and we need choice. (and no, Java ain't dying)Jun 02 12:35
[H]omerI just don't see that anyone needs .NET at allJun 02 12:36
hassanibraheemyes, java ain't dying, but unfortunately I don't see it coming to the linux desktop :(Jun 02 12:36
[H]omerWell there is already IcedTeaJun 02 12:36
[H]omerWhich is 99% of all JavaJun 02 12:37
[H]omerUnless you mean popularityJun 02 12:37
hassanibraheemand there is openjdk which I think is now related to IcedTea somehow, but I mean applicationsJun 02 12:37
[H]omerAFAICT Java programming is still the No1 jobJun 02 12:37
[H]omerOh, apps! I seeJun 02 12:38
[H]omerYes there is a dearth in that areaJun 02 12:38
[H]omerAzureus is about the only one I can nameJun 02 12:38
[H]omerErm ...Jun 02 12:38
[H]omerNope, that's allJun 02 12:38
hassanibraheemand there is FreeMind (I think that's the name)Jun 02 12:39
schestowitzhassanibraheem, I saw some news about this earlier. I'll post it in BN later.Jun 02 12:39
[H]omerWell /somebody/ is using it, judging by all the Java job vacancies I keep seeingJun 02 12:39
[H]omerEnterprise only, I guessJun 02 12:40
[H]omersuxJun 02 12:40
hassanibraheem[H]omer: sure, java is great for business and enterprise stuffJun 02 12:40
schestowitzIt's a broader issue.Jun 02 12:40
schestowitzJava is big ons ervers too. If you lose to .NET on the servers, that's really bad.Jun 02 12:40
schestowitzMicrosoft has plans for server lock-in (REST, XAML, etc)Jun 02 12:40
[H]omerI recall there was a stack that ran on top of Java called AmigaDE, a gaming platform for mobile/UMPC etc. You never hear about that nowJun 02 12:41
[H]omerNokia were supposed to be adopting it a lotJun 02 12:41
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hassanibraheem[H]omer: Nokia, one company that I can't really understand !!!Jun 02 12:42
[H]omeryeah, bizarreJun 02 12:42
[H]omerThey wan't Free Software so they can make it non-Free, or somethingJun 02 12:42
iweepyoulaughlolJun 02 12:43
iweepyoulaughok i see an opensuse member, raise your tentacle if you're a ms shillJun 02 12:43
iweepyoulaughtoo late, I see a few waving!Jun 02 12:43
[H]omerI don't think they come here without an invite ;)Jun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaughit's no surprise that opensuse has a lizard logo and collaborates with msJun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaughyou've all seen the V series I imagineJun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaugh[H]omer, they are everywhereJun 02 12:44
[H]omerIt's a pity, because SuSE (minus Novell) used to be really goodJun 02 12:44
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iweepyoulaughso did grandma before she dried upJun 02 12:45
[H]omerI wish Germany would declare war on Novell and reclaim their "territory"Jun 02 12:45
iweepyoulaughI used to enjoy french kisses and afternoon delightsJun 02 12:45
iweepyoulaugh[H]omer, I have invested in a chicken farmJun 02 12:46
iweepyoulaughthe ballmer egg video inspired me to do thisJun 02 12:46
iweepyoulaughevery chicken has been kissed on the head and anointed with the holy linux rightsJun 02 12:47
iweepyoulaugheach egg is sacred and will be added to a warehouse of eggsJun 02 12:47
schestowitzI has SUSE at home and at work for years.Jun 02 12:47
iweepyoulaughthis new chicken army will reign surpremeJun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaughsure schestowitz, play it upJun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaughlet's kiss some assJun 02 12:48
schestowitzNo, no.Jun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaughanyone who wears the suse tag is a whoreJun 02 12:48
schestowitzThe point I am making is that I turned from a SUSE/Novell fan into a critic.Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughyes yesJun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughyou either shit or get off the potJun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughthe suse people are turd gobblersJun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughhaven't we all?Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughthe intelligent ones, I meanJun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughbunch of scat munching MS loversJun 02 12:49
schestowitzEasy buddy, with the language. It can be used against us.Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaughdarnit all I have to go, my grandpa needs his rod greasedJun 02 12:50
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schestowitzSUSE users are caught in the middle. It's Novell where the suits want to secure their paycheck.Jun 02 12:50
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from [H]omerJun 02 12:50
*DCC CHAT connection established to [H]omer []Jun 02 12:51
schestowitzJust gone, eh?Jun 02 12:52
[H]omeryeah, you want to kickban idiots like thatJun 02 12:53
schestowitzCall me what you will, but I've heard from people that poisoning of sites is done in this way (obscene language).Jun 02 12:53
[H]omeryes I believe itJun 02 12:53
schestowitzJust watch /. for an example (before they cleaned up around 2006).Jun 02 12:53
[H]omerBet you that was NuddsJun 02 12:53
schestowitzThe Scott Douglas Munchkin, eh? What the S* references.Jun 02 12:54
[H]omeryupJun 02 12:54
*DCC CHAT to [H]omer aborted.Jun 02 12:54
[H]omerHis styleJun 02 12:54
hassanibraheemschestowitz: do u believe that the news u linked about Sharjah School isn't available in the arabic version of the site :(Jun 02 12:57
[H]omerlolJun 02 12:57
[H]omerI worked in the middle-east for a while. They ain't Free Software fanaticsJun 02 12:57
schestowitzI won't pass this around outside (because it's Maureen O'Gara, who spied on PJ and played up SCO), but see . She usually tries to boost Novell at Red Hat's expense. She's anti-ODF too. Anti-RMS. You name it. Blatantly.Jun 02 12:58
hassanibraheem[H]omer: yup , unfortunatelyJun 02 12:58
[H]omerI refuse to visit on religious grounds (aversion to spam)Jun 02 12:59
schestowitzYes, I believe this because Heise is the same. You know what's sad? All the good news about FOSS comes outside the UK/US/CA, so all we ever see is Linux news from SA and some stuff in foreign languages.Jun 02 12:59
[H]omerThat's not sad, it's just typical. The West is money-obsessedJun 02 13:00
[H]omerFree == BadJun 02 13:00
schestowitzThe English press is fighting (suppressing) FOSS because of the money trail, which is tied to that same ol' solidarity.Jun 02 13:00
[H]omerYes indeedJun 02 13:00
hassanibraheemunfortunately, in egypt, they're not money-obssesedJun 02 13:01
hassanibraheemthey're microsoft-obssesedJun 02 13:01
[H]omerlolJun 02 13:01
schestowitzThere are some blogs where people translate articles about migrations.Jun 02 13:01
[H]omerhassanibraheem: Is that where you are now?Jun 02 13:01
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hassanibraheem[H]omer: yupJun 02 13:02
schestowitzhassanibraheem, same thing. People are like birds following the seeds.Jun 02 13:02
cyberorgwow there are a dozen people here :)Jun 02 13:02
[H]omerthe borg! the borg! Full power to the main deflector dishJun 02 13:02
schestowitz money-obsessed and  microsoft-obsessed are not mutually exclusive.Jun 02 13:02
cyberorghi schestowitz, nice of you to digg my post :)Jun 02 13:03
[H]omerhassanibraheem: how's the weather? ;)Jun 02 13:03
schestowitzThanks. Which one? Who are you? :-)Jun 02 13:03
hassanibraheem[H]omer: kinda hot :DJun 02 13:04
[H]omerhassanibraheem: I was in Kuwait in 2003 ... out in the desertJun 02 13:04
hassanibraheem[H]omer: it's hot, but I'm quite sure not like Kuwait :DJun 02 13:04
[H]omerhassanibraheem: In February at 9AM it was 50oC in the shadeJun 02 13:04
[H]omerhassanibraheem: I came within 1000 feet of two exploding SCUDSJun 02 13:05
[H]omerhassanibraheem: they were destroyed above my head by Rapier missilesJun 02 13:06
hassanibraheem[H]omer: ohJun 02 13:06
[H]omerhassanibraheem: I got knocked back on my ass about 15 feetJun 02 13:06
hassanibraheem[H]omer: what was that for?Jun 02 13:07
[H]omerhassanibraheem: I hated that job :)Jun 02 13:07
[H]omerhassanibraheem: civilian contract to the US armed forcesJun 02 13:07
hassanibraheem[H]omer: civilian? :DJun 02 13:08
[H]omerhassanibraheem: yeah, the nearest I got to military duty was when I was in the boy scoutsJun 02 13:08
[H]omerhassanibraheem: those Yanks can't do anything themselvesJun 02 13:09
[H]omer;)Jun 02 13:09
hassanibraheem:DJun 02 13:09
[H]omerActually Kuwait City is fascinatingJun 02 13:10
[H]omerIt's a mixture of extreme opulence and bulletsJun 02 13:10
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schestowitzI had a conversation about this the other day (world's supply of oil and those fighting for it). Education is key.Jun 02 13:11
[H]omerDid you know that the Kuwait government /pay/ all their citizens an "incentive" to stay in Kuwait. It's like 2 or 3 grand a month!Jun 02 13:12
[H]omerReally!Jun 02 13:12
schestowitzIf I were to try to nudge this off topic, I'd say that Microsoft is very much the same in the sense that it always looks for new revenue drills (Zune, XBox).Jun 02 13:12
[H]omerBah MicrosoftJun 02 13:13
[H]omerThey need to dieJun 02 13:13
[H]omerPlease God send an earthquake to RedmondJun 02 13:13
hassanibraheemI dunno what microsoft is up to for the middle-eastJun 02 13:13
[H]omerActually it's not just Microsoft. The "greed" culture in endemic in the WestJun 02 13:14
hassanibraheemits internet plan will fail here, for sureJun 02 13:14
[H]omerThey plan on being an ISP?Jun 02 13:14
[H]omerOr search/adsJun 02 13:15
hassanibraheemno, that dream of competing with google and Windows Live thingJun 02 13:15
[H]omerThat Yahoo thing was hilariousJun 02 13:15
[H]omerLose 30 Billion USD just to /try/ to buy a company. LOLJun 02 13:15
[H]omerAnd the whole Live Services thing is a joke too. Look at the mess Xbox people are inJun 02 13:16
[H]omerHow safe is your Xbox account? HmmmmJun 02 13:16
[H]omerOneCare Live is a messJun 02 13:17
hassanibraheembtw, shouldn't those Live Services in Windows 7 trigger some anti-trust investigations?Jun 02 13:17
[H]omerYesJun 02 13:17
[H]omerEverything MS does should trigger major investigationsJun 02 13:17
schestowitzhassanibraheem, in the ME, Microsoft seems to have made many partnerships and crackdown recently. I watch  Microsoft closely, so I see this frequently. More than before.Jun 02 13:18
schestowitzXbox staff is leaving in big numbers. Or left. It wouldn't surprise me if they moved these ops to China.Jun 02 13:19
hassanibraheemschestowitz: in my college, they are very microsof-obssesedJun 02 13:19
hassanibraheemschestowitz: a friend of mine told me once that the college is "sponsored" by microsoftJun 02 13:20
schestowitzhassanibraheem, I saw that W7 antitrust thing about a year ago when an article came up. The EC is already probing this using a current build.Jun 02 13:20
schestowitz"Get them while they are young"Jun 02 13:20
schestowitzSame in France now. Microsoft-sponsored Unis, thanks to the president. They influence the curriculum too. They teach kids about IP now. And patents. Whatever works well for overseas monopolies.Jun 02 13:21
hassanibraheemschestowitz: c# and stuff, and huge discounts on Microsoft's products, while microsoft enjoys tax "discounts" from the country tooJun 02 13:21
hassanibraheembig companies aren't fascinated by microsoft, but, they are somehow restricted to what the community hasJun 02 13:22
hassanibraheemand in that case it's .NET developersJun 02 13:22
schestowitzYes, yes. They try to capture people and use gratis strategy to ensure the kids don't turn to FOSS. It was in the news a while ago.Jun 02 13:23
[H]omerWell I need to get some work done. Cya later tonight.Jun 02 13:23
schestowitzI was once taught at school about Egypt cycle of poverty. it's the same with Microsoft. It's a cycle.Jun 02 13:23
hassanibraheemthe OLPC news makes me really angry, they quote egyptian ministers question "do you run windows?" everywhereJun 02 13:24
hassanibraheemit's really ugly, when the government says "don't give us free software, we need windows" !!!Jun 02 13:25
schestowitzThere was a similar thing in Romania last year. The president/PM thanked Windows 'piracy', saying it built the nation.Jun 02 13:27
hassanibraheem"built" ? like "our country is ready for microsoft taking control" ? :DJun 02 13:27
schestowitzHeh.Jun 02 13:35
schestowitzWell, I meant to suggest that diplomats use Windows, so they can't think of anything else. They also need to justify their own choice.Jun 02 13:36
schestowitzFortunately, SA, part of the EU and South America start moving the government to FOSS, so this cyclic trap might be avoided.Jun 02 13:36
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JukeBoxerhiiJun 02 13:39
JukeBoxeri just emailed pj asking to clarify the mono conventJun 02 13:39
schestowitzhiJun 02 13:39
JukeBoxerlets see what grok says abt monoJun 02 13:39
schestowitzThanks, maybe she'll be tight-lippedJun 02 13:39
schestowitzIt's a controversial subject, so she quoted Bradley.Jun 02 13:40
JukeBoxerjust installed fedora.. its faster than ubuntu but i still like ubuntuJun 02 13:40
schestowitzMandriva looks quite decent too.Jun 02 13:40
JukeBoxeri knoww...ubuntu has lot of packages..Jun 02 13:41
JukeBoxer:)Jun 02 13:41
schestowitzAlanW is running around trying to spread the message everywhere (LY, OSNews, Digg), but I haven't seen many bad reviews. Can't say the same about Ubuntu 8.04.Jun 02 13:41
schestowitzEven Beranger is OK(ish) with it.Jun 02 13:42
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bluefacepaintwow this is real channel, saw the slashdot postingJun 02 15:25
hassanibraheembluefacepaint: it's on slashdot?Jun 02 15:25
bluefacepaintsomeone posted a message thereJun 02 15:26
bluefacepaintthought I'd try this outJun 02 15:26
hassanibraheem:)Jun 02 15:26
bluefacepaintnot much happening at the moment or is it scheduled chats?Jun 02 15:27
hassanibraheemit's still the first day (or second I think) , so we discuss stuff as they come outJun 02 15:28
hassanibraheemand anyone can start a discussion ofcorse :)Jun 02 15:28
bluefacepaintoh okayJun 02 15:28
bluefacepaintI would like a boycottnovell screensaverJun 02 15:29
hassanibraheembut, why were u amazed anyway ? :DJun 02 15:29
bluefacepaintBecause usually the communication is web basedJun 02 15:30
bluefacepaintPeople start forums or mailing listsJun 02 15:30
bluefacepainthow is my text showing upJun 02 15:31
hassanibraheemgreat! ? :DJun 02 15:31
bluefacepaintgoodie I hope soJun 02 15:31
bluefacepaintit's hard to use this chatJun 02 15:31
bluefacepaintI ate something strange earlier now everything is meltingJun 02 15:31
bluefacepaintcant concentrate gotta goJun 02 15:32
hassanibraheemyup, but it appears many people are used to it :DJun 02 15:32
hassanibraheemso, I should look for an IRC beginner guide :DJun 02 15:32
bluefacepainthope chat is good i like blue worldsJun 02 15:32
bluefacepaintblue worlds with blue birds without a TAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLlJun 02 15:32
bluefacepaintmy eyes bleed insideJun 02 15:32
bluefacepaintthey cry for lightJun 02 15:32
bluefacepaintthey say light light birds in flightJun 02 15:32
bluefacepaintseashells in the ears are fancy delightJun 02 15:33
bluefacepainti cannot swim i cannot breatheJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintbut i can tease the oysters of the streamJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintdont know CRYSTAL CLEAR OCEANS are for the skimmingJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintyou skim thoughts ACROSS the water!Jun 02 15:33
hassanibraheem?Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintdid you know thisJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintyou can transfer thought across the surface of waterJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintI have done this several timesJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintthis is how you COMMUNICATE with sea creaturesJun 02 15:33
bluefacepaintlife beneath the oceanJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintit is BEAUTIFUL and I fly nowJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintfly fly flyJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintyou fly back to school nowJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintstarlingJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintfly fly flyJun 02 15:34
bluefacepaintfly fly flyJun 02 15:34
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schestowitzWeird. It's the second time someone comes, drops some inane words and walks away. At least no vulgarities this time. :-)Jun 02 15:46
schestowitzMicrosoft seems to be gaining or retaining some control inside ISO. I'll post something about it shortly.Jun 02 15:47
hassanibraheemschestowitz: good, and about that guy, if the channel is really on slashdot, so we should expect more ;)Jun 02 15:51
schestowitzI no longer read Slashdot. I don't trust it under the current editorship, but if it's there, it can't do harm. I've received a mail an hour ago about Ladislav (DistroWatch) posting pro-SUSE material. Someone thought it was a Novell plant.Jun 02 15:59
schestowitzI'm going to be away for a long while. I'll stay connected though.Jun 02 16:24
hassanibraheemok, hope there are no more nonsense visitors :DJun 02 16:25
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cozublol to bluefacepaint, thanks to him it feels like real IRC :))Jun 02 17:42
hassanibraheem:DJun 02 17:43
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hassanibraheemheyJun 02 20:39
hassanibraheemcheck this outJun 02 20:39
hassanibraheem 02 20:39
hassanibraheemhello? :DJun 02 21:01
cozubwell... I never liked HPJun 02 21:13
hassanibraheemI don't like HP, and I never liked toolbars, tooJun 02 21:16
cozubyeah, those add-on toolbars suckJun 02 21:17
cozubbut if it's gonna be included in the default crapware that comes with a pc, then it will generate some hits for m$Jun 02 21:17
hassanibraheembut, the real issue is silverlight, those OSs will come pre-contaminated !!Jun 02 21:18
schestowitzThat would server Microsoft's goal. Only Windows would play nice on the XAML Web. Let's see the press release (i've just come back).Jun 02 22:54
schestowitz"serve Microsoft's goals" I meant to say. Now I see it. They play dirty, based on the PR above. And H-P helps them, as usual.Jun 02 22:59
hassanibraheemI wonder if it's a part of a bigger planJun 02 23:00
hassanibraheemthat may include whatever they buy from yahoo , and facebook, as rumoredJun 02 23:00
schestowitzWoohoo! Another nation has just appealed OOXML.Jun 02 23:05
schestowitzI suspected that it'll happen on Monday.Jun 02 23:06
hassanibraheemappealed?Jun 02 23:06
schestowitzYes, VenezuelaJun 02 23:06
hassanibraheemisn't the deadline over?Jun 02 23:06
schestowitzYes, but maybe it wasn't visible until now. I don't know the rules too well, but they bend them.Jun 02 23:06
schestowitz"By Monday, though, the IEC had relaxed its interpretation of the directive: Venezuela's appeal, although filed after May 29, "was filed within the two months of the BRM [ballot resolution meeting] closing so that it is being accepted. (The BRM closed on 29 March 2008 so the interpretation is that the last calendar day of May is being applied)," Buck wrote in an e-mail.Jun 02 23:09
schestowitz"Jun 02 23:09
hassanibraheemnice :)Jun 02 23:10
schestowitzMaybe Denmark too.Jun 02 23:10
schestowitzThis is good.Jun 02 23:10
[H]omerthat was a busy dayJun 02 23:11
[H]omerwhat's been happening?Jun 02 23:12
schestowitzMicrosoft's control of ISO becomes clearer.Jun 02 23:13
schestowitzHonestly. It's subtle, but you can see the influence.Jun 02 23:13
[H]omerit's pretty blatant i'd sayJun 02 23:13
[H]omerlemme check my mailJun 02 23:14
*hassanibraheem has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jun 02 23:18
*reddsman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 23:35
reddsmanThe reality is that exclusionary deals with MS are bad.Jun 02 23:36
reddsmanMS will just extinguish everything if you make a deal with them.Jun 02 23:37
schestowitzYes, even  HP.Jun 02 23:38
schestowitzAlthough this one is a move against Google: 02 23:38
reddsmanTrue.  Forgot about HP.Jun 02 23:38
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 23:38
schestowitzhey dsmith_Jun 02 23:38
schestowitzGot logs from yesterday? I accidentally disabled logging at the start.Jun 02 23:39
dsmith_hiJun 02 23:39
dsmith_i believe I doJun 02 23:39
dsmith_yepJun 02 23:39
reddsmanWow guess I'll dump my one HP machine.Jun 02 23:39
schestowitzCan you mail them to me ( roy @ schestowiitz . com )? Please?Jun 02 23:39
reddsmandsmith you live in MD, so do IJun 02 23:40
schestowitzOops. One "I", not two.Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_okJun 02 23:40
dsmith_hello reddsmanJun 02 23:40
dsmith_there is a ubuntu MD LUG aroundJun 02 23:40
schestowitzH-P is a weirdo OEM because it does a bit of Linux too, but their Linux (mainly Debian) division is like Microsoft Port 25.Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_brbJun 02 23:40
reddsmancool.Jun 02 23:41
reddsmanI've been playing with ubuntu a bit.  It's really nice.Jun 02 23:41
schestowitzPackage management in Ubuntu seems good.Jun 02 23:42
reddsmanI use it on my main machine.  Unfortunately I need Microsucks for work but that's another story.Jun 02 23:42
schestowitzThey dropped the ball with 8.04 (I haven't tried it though).Jun 02 23:42
schestowitzI haven't used Windows for years. It might be hard getting used to click-to-focus .Jun 02 23:43
schestowitz 02 23:44
dsmith_sent royJun 02 23:44
schestowitzHahaha! Best thing found so far today. This confirms (again) that it's the next Zuneral.Jun 02 23:44
reddsmanI need IE for an internal website or twoJun 02 23:44
schestowitzThanks a million, dsmithJun 02 23:44
dsmith_npJun 02 23:44
schestowitz<reddsman>, you can run multiple versions of IE under GNU/Linux.Jun 02 23:45
dsmith_reddsman: have you tried ies4linux?Jun 02 23:45
dsmith_or perhaps user agent switcherJun 02 23:45
dsmith_Referring to H-P, I noticed the other day that one can purchase a lenovo laptop sans an OSJun 02 23:46
dsmith_they do offer Suse of course, blehJun 02 23:46
reddsmanNo I haven't tried ieslinux.  I can try it tomorrow.Jun 02 23:47
dsmith_its version 6 but it works...Jun 02 23:47
reddsmanThat's fine.  I hate 7 anyway.Jun 02 23:48
schestowitzdmith, that's good (Lenovo news). Price would be interesting.Jun 02 23:48
reddsmanThat is good news.Jun 02 23:48
dsmith_let me find the linkagainJun 02 23:48
reddsmangotta run fellas.Jun 02 23:48
schestowitzdsmith, you can run IE7 now, I think.Jun 02 23:48
*reddsman ( has left #boycottnovellJun 02 23:48
schestowitzI never used it, but you can run multiple versions at the same time (can't do that in Windows)Jun 02 23:49
dsmith_ 02 23:51
dsmith_look under operating systemJun 02 23:51
dsmith_ThinkPad PC DOS LicenseJun 02 23:52
dsmith_i know for a fact that the video and wireless will work just by reading the specsJun 02 23:52
dsmith_schestowitz: I have no need for ie7 PERIODJun 02 23:54
schestowitzMe neither.Jun 02 23:55
schestowitzIt's a shame they don't just sell people hardware. They certify for Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE, IIRC, at least at Lenovo.Jun 02 23:55
schestowitzThey pocket the savings (OS) though.Jun 02 23:56
schestowitz$11.25Jun 02 23:58


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