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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 6th, 2008

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dsmith_http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/press...Aug 06 06:41
dsmith_IBM Pushing Microsoft-Free DesktopsAug 06 06:42
dsmith_:)Aug 06 06:42
schestowitzThat's the big news today. I wish it was Free software. They sell proprietary software. Swapping of 'masters'.Aug 06 06:42
dsmith_yeaAug 06 06:43
dsmith_did you see my santayana ref?Aug 06 06:43
schestowitzIt makaes it easier to justify a move to GNU/Linux in the enterprise though. Rather than recommend some company from Isle of Mann you can talk about Big Blue and tell the boss that you bring in Linux and Lotus(C).Aug 06 06:43
schestowitz(TM) I mean.Aug 06 06:44
schestowitzYes, I have. Novell too is refusing to learn from the past.Aug 06 06:44
dsmith_hehAug 06 06:44
dsmith_doom on themAug 06 06:45
schestowitzJim Allchin, Platform Group Vice President at Microsoft: ""We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger….If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger.""Aug 06 06:45
dsmith_sold outAug 06 06:45
dsmith_I've read that beforeAug 06 06:45
schestowitzHe was brought to court some months ago over the Vista fiasco.Aug 06 06:46
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schestowitzAnother blow  to Novell http://www.thevarguy.com/200... IIRC, the guy who just left only joined under a year ago. I'll need to check my notes.Aug 06 07:46
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schestowitz"After roughly 90 days on the job, Novell’s new VP of Global Channel Sales, Pat Bernard, knows the company has some work to do in order to regain a partner-centric focus — and the trust of former partners." http://www.crn.com/it-channel/...Aug 06 07:54
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/200... So yes... I remembered correctly and the man left just months after he was appointed. They can't have people hold a job.Aug 06 07:55
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schestowitzJust got this reply: "IBM Leads Partnership Pushing Desktop Linux [...] And, as has been noted, Lotus symphony is just a proprietary fork of OOo.  So really, Lotus Notes?  Is that going to kill Microsoft on the desktop?  I think not.  Plus it is just trading one master for another. I am not surprised by IBM's move here - they have everything to gain, but I am not sure why the others are going along."Aug 06 08:23
schestowitzhttp://technocrat.net/reply/2008/8/5/47378Aug 06 08:23
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kentmajust looked at the google map picture of my house - I can see when it was taken because of where the pool was and which cars were parked...  the detail is amazingAug 06 09:38
schestowitzIs it 'hyperlinkable'?Aug 06 09:40
kentmaIt's here:  http://maps.google.co.uk/maps...Aug 06 09:41
schestowitzWait until those vehicles with on-ground cameras come over.Aug 06 09:43
kentmaAh, they won't see anything, the hedges are too high for that.Aug 06 09:44
schestowitzWell, they always have aerials otherwise. Who owns these and why are they handed over to Google? How much for and where does the money go? I can remember Google doing something like this in Australia and there was a controversy.Aug 06 09:45
kentmaaerials?  no entende!Aug 06 10:07
kentmasorry no entiendoAug 06 10:07
kentma:-)Aug 06 10:07
schestowitzThey have spy-like airplanes or drones take these shots, I think.Aug 06 10:08
kentmaaha, you mean aerial shots - I read aerial as antennae and got confused.Aug 06 10:09
schestowitzThere's lot of legalised invasion of privacy these days. Cookies, Phorm, cars publishing photos of your house...Aug 06 10:10
kentmabut then, most of this information isn't really "private" anyway.  Pretty much everyone's on the electoral role, for example.Aug 06 10:11
kentmarollAug 06 10:11
schestowitzThat data that they mine will be leaked and shared. Some will be misused without people ever realising it.Aug 06 10:12
schestowitzGoing by the logic that 'privacy is dead anyway', people might as well upload the  medical record of themselves and there family to a public site, not just those services from Google, Microsoft and others.Aug 06 10:13
schestowitz*theirAug 06 10:13
kentmacouncils have been selling electoral rolls to marketing companies for some time now.  after that, it's just a question of getting postcode->lat-long mapping from streetmap.co.uk and then overhead pictures from google, then you know all about where people are.Aug 06 10:13
kentmaWait until the UK Gov has managed to get everyone's DNA on a database which is then leaked to the world.Aug 06 10:14
schestowitzWhat Google does is similar to what Microsoft said about Java. David Boies: "Microsoft. Microsoft’s argument that says Java would have died anyway is a little bit like saying if somebody shoots you they can defend [themselves] by saying you have cancer."Aug 06 10:14
kentmaJust think how many people will find out that their father is not who they thought it was.  (considered to be 10->25% of people!)Aug 06 10:15
schestowitzDatabase = leak. It's only a matter of time. Inside job or security cockup.Aug 06 10:15
kentmaIn the end, the only practical route is going to be for everything to be public, but the transition period is going to be nasty.  Even then, how many governments will cry "security", how many companies cry "commercially confidential"?Aug 06 10:16
kentmaYou can't even get a list of ingredients in food in many cases.Aug 06 10:16
schestowitzGoogle blurs faces to protect privacy in Australian Street View - http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.ph...Aug 06 10:17
schestowitzI also found this yesterday: http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index...Aug 06 10:18
schestowitzHow to carjack a top Google exec, according to Google [...] The NLPC does not state which Google exec the information pertains to, but media outlets around the world are reporting that it is the home of Google co-founder Larry Page. The photos are followed by Google Earth-enabled information including the distance from the street to the front door, and the optimal driving route the exec would follow to arrive at Google's Mountain VAug 06 10:18
schestowitziew headquarters, complete with photos of every intersection, stop sign and traffic lights en route."Aug 06 10:18
kentmaI think that it's essential, otherwise how many people will get caught out being somewhere they shouldn't!Aug 06 10:18
kentmaI saw the article...Aug 06 10:18
schestowitzI'm about to post something about Novell's latest blow.Aug 06 10:19
schestowitzDoug sent some interesting thing which I can't get my head around: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/...Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz"Under one initiative dubbed the Microsoft Active Protections Program (MAPP), Redmond will provide security providers with detailed information about upcoming updates .. MAPP is only open to companies that offer a commercial product to Microsoft customers against network- or host-based attacks. Authors of attack kits are not eligible"Aug 06 10:24
schestowitzHe then writes: "I assume that excludes Open Source, GPL, security developers."Aug 06 10:24
schestowitzFTA: "The restrictions on who gets the information makes sense, given the potential for abuse should it fall into the wrong hands"Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz"If only I could believe that was their only motive. I can imagine the the BullShession where they discussed how to dilute and marginalize the Open Source sector. How soon will some pretend thrir party publish studies showing how non-commercial Open Source security are worse than the MS certified ones." That sounds a bit like the  EULA's nerve.Aug 06 10:25
kentmaconsidering how amazingly insecure Windows is, and how well exploited it is, "security by obscurity" can clearly be said to have failed.  Any further secrecy is for commercial gain.Aug 06 10:28
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kentmamms://audio.bl.uk/media/services/reading/ admissionspolicy.wmaAug 06 11:08
kentmahttp://www.bl.uk/services/readi...Aug 06 11:08
kentmaThe British Library's admissions policy in, guess what?  Windows Media Format.Aug 06 11:08
schestowitzHardly surprising, but it warrants a complaint unless they make more options available. They tell you to buy software from a convicted abuser just to view your own assets. That abuser is also a partner of Adam et al.Aug 06 11:10
kentmaThe audio actually talks about new technology and protecting the interests of the future, but in WMA!Aug 06 11:10
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to be part of "the interests of the future" It's the same in the Library of Congress in the US. In the US, Microsoft /paid/  them 3 million to do it. I don't know about the BL, but someone should investigate this just as they did with the BBC.Aug 06 11:11
kentmaIt does appear very suspicious.Aug 06 11:12
schestowitzOOXML is another issue. There you have /future/ access being dependent on code Microsoft won't share with anyone.Aug 06 11:13
kentmaHopefully, as Microsoft are walking away from OOXML, so the BL and others will have to do the same.Aug 06 11:13
schestowitzThey don't walk away from it. They are faking a defeat to please and soften their critics.Aug 06 11:14
kentmaYou think that they still have plans for OOXML?Aug 06 11:15
schestowitzOh yeah! They bragged about it in the press just a week ago. I'll find you a post about it.Aug 06 11:16
kentmaah, okay...Aug 06 11:17
schestowitzIt's mentioned in part of:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07... http://boycottnovell.com/2008... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/...Aug 06 11:19
kentma /me off for a while - c u l8rAug 06 11:29
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schestowitzVexorian has just left a good comment in Slashdot (pointed out by Slashdot): http://tech.slashdot.org/comments...Aug 06 12:29
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kentmaWell, we can see the new Microsoft push, and no doubt the cola trolls will be repeating it very soon, and it's:  "increasing openness at Microsoft".Aug 06 13:35
schestowitzEnough people realise that it's fake, but not the right people (technical versus decsion-making)Aug 06 13:36
ZiggyFishmaybe everyone is jumping ship now, so now, they need to fill them positionsAug 06 13:37
ZiggyFish;)Aug 06 13:37
schestowitzI see that Timmy posted a challenge to me over at COLA. He's still attacking ODF (done this for ages). In Groklaw right now: "The report also suggests that Microsoft's recent publication of protocol documentation for its core products could have an overall damaging effect on the company. "The availability of protocol licenses may enable competitors to develop software products that better mimic the functionality of Microsoft's own Aug 06 13:37
schestowitzproducts which could result in a reduction in sales of our products."" [PJ: Still think Microsoft wants to be interoperable?] Aug 06 13:37
schestowitzZiggyFish: referring to that last blog post?Aug 06 13:38
ZiggyFishreferring to kentma's postAug 06 13:38
ZiggyFishsorry, read his post wronglyAug 06 13:39
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack is now attacking Linux phones: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008...Aug 06 13:39
ZiggyFishI read his post as - Increasing openings at MicrosoftAug 06 13:42
schestowitzIFG pwned: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_... "In both cases, it's still mildly ironic to see IDG making money with open source...but paying money to Microsoft." They used to have anti-Linux ads in LinuxWorld, too.Aug 06 13:42
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schestowitzThis related to an earlier discussion: http://www.schneier.com/blog/a... . Nonchalantly: "The TSA is unhappy."Aug 06 15:42
schestowitzFunny headline: Microsoft, Google and Yahoo Agree To Code of _Conduct_ ( http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Busin... ). It should really state "MISconduct". It's just like PARTIOT ACT, enablement, Trusted Computing, Genuine advantage. How is suppression about conduct?Aug 06 16:54
schestowitzPossibility of debt for Microsoft: http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNe...Aug 06 16:59
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_DougWhats happening on Digg ?Aug 06 17:06
schestowitzCan't participate peacefully anymore. Gremlins everywhere. Gary and the gang are to blame.Aug 06 17:06
_DougDo you have a link ?Aug 06 17:07
schestowitzYes, but it's abuse, so better not to give it visibility. As kentma said earlier, the issue is that if you leave one site/forum and relocate to another, this does not revolve the issue. The Munchkins just proceed to ruining other fora and in that sense achieve their goal.Aug 06 17:08
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*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 06 17:09
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Aug 06 17:09
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008Aug 06 17:09
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 06 17:09
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 06 17:09
schestowitzOops.Aug 06 17:09
schestowitzMised anything?Aug 06 17:09
schestowitz*missed (I hit the wrong keys again)Aug 06 17:09
_Dougnope ..Aug 06 17:10
schestowitzCheck this out: http://business.smh.com.au/business/microso...Aug 06 17:16
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schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/arti... Another Microsoft General Manager leaves very suddenly. This could be related to http://www.bloomberg.com/apps...Aug 06 17:32
Tallkenhi schestowitz, have an article for ya, non related with IT but with Bill Gates as a personAug 06 17:34
TallkenProbably you'll want to keep it off the site since we want to defend FOSS againt MS moves which aren't beneficial to software worldAug 06 17:35
schestowitzWhat's the article? Sounds promising.Aug 06 17:35
Tallkenand not attack Bill Gates just because he seems to be lyingAug 06 17:36
TallkenI'm still reading the article to be sure of the contentsAug 06 17:36
schestowitzI'd love to find evidence that Bill knows Baystar or Golbfarb.Aug 06 17:37
Tallkenwho?Aug 06 17:37
TallkenAnyway, here it is, as I said not IT relatedAug 06 17:37
TallkenMaking Capitalism More Creative -> http://www.time.com/time/busines...Aug 06 17:38
TallkenThe Creative Capitalism Roundtable -> http://www.time.com/time/busine...Aug 06 17:38
TallkenThe Audacity of Bill Gates -> http://www.time.com/time/mag...Aug 06 17:38
TallkenI don't know if you know them already, they are from Jul 31Aug 06 17:38
schestowitzI didn't read them. It seemed like glorification fluff (Times).Aug 06 17:39
schestowitz*LOL* "Conflict-of-interest note: I worked for Microsoft for seven years, and my wife Patty Stonesifer is a senior adviser to the Gates Foundation after 11 years as its CEO"Aug 06 17:40
Tallken:PAug 06 17:41
schestowitzIt's a full-page advert. They make it seem like there's drama and conflict, but it's all just for lifting Gates' image. A lot of the press does this using Microsoft's 'moles' or at Microsoft's command. Same with Ramji and the other 'good cops' they try to build.Aug 06 17:42
Tallkenwell the sad part is that I saw the links in a yet-to-be-officially-born political party's blogAug 06 17:44
schestowitzIt was also in Slashdot (now sponsored by Microsoft).Aug 06 17:44
TallkenLOL??Aug 06 17:44
Tallkendidn't know thatAug 06 17:45
schestowitzI was warned some months ago that Microsoft uses Ballmer to play good cop, bad cop. See this new one too: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so..." (Did the bad cop gremlins get at Microsoft’s annual report?)Aug 06 17:45
Tallkenthough zdnet was microsoft's ?Aug 06 17:56
schestowitzYes, that too, but not directly.Aug 06 17:57
schestowitzI think it would be great if someone blogged Microsoft's financial games. Would that be possible, I wonder... they also have all sorts of shells... and the Gates Foundation throws a lot of money at all sorts of interests, including newspapers and other media companies (TV).Aug 06 17:57
TallkenI liked specially of the fact Vista sales including XP sales in that MS program that allowed people to downgrade ROFLAug 06 17:59
Tallkenwhere did I read that? was it in your blog?Aug 06 17:59
schestowitzI wrote about that too, but so have others. I think that InfoWeek broke the news, which then reached the Inquirer. They use many such lies, but it's hard to catch. I could give examples... other than the channel-stuffing that's a  religion at Microsoft.Aug 06 18:01
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*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 06 18:01
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Aug 06 18:01
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008Aug 06 18:01
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 06 18:01
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 06 18:01
schestowitzOops (wrong key again). Paste here if I missed a message. :-S :-SAug 06 18:02
Tallkenlol nope, said nothing :)Aug 06 18:02
TallkenBTW, are you using smuxi? (kidding with ya ;) )Aug 06 18:02
_DougIBM is releasing a Linux desktop with Canonical/Ubuntu, Novell, and Red Hat ..Aug 06 18:12
_Doughttp://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/0...Aug 06 18:12
_DougNot Microsoft !!!Aug 06 18:13
_DougThis is major significant !!!Aug 06 18:13
_Dougis everyone dead in here ?Aug 06 18:21
schestowitzWhat's smuxi?Aug 06 18:22
schestowitzIt's bad that they market it as "Microsoft-Free", Doug. Some people will read it like "anti-Microsoft" and it's also proprietary, so... basically, none of this is new... IBM just made an announcement out of old news, but lumped in Novell and Canonical. it's a case of swapping masters... better off using OOo, which come on all these major distros by default.Aug 06 18:25
_DougSmuxi: a new IRC client - Miguel de IcazaAug 06 18:25
schestowitzBlech. is that the one which he recently bragged about.. from Debian?Aug 06 18:25
_DougThey seems to have given a big mention to NotesAug 06 18:26
schestowitzNotes is just like Microsoft, but with a different master. Oh! And 'standards'.Aug 06 18:27
_Doug"Microsoft-Free": IBM don't but the people writing the blog do.Aug 06 18:27
_DougIBM marketing an IBM PC without winDOS, this is majorAug 06 18:28
schestowitzMicrosoft screws Brits and Nikon, so Nikon leaves in anger: http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/_Niko...Aug 06 18:28
schestowitz_Doug: yes, but it's not news. They made a similar announcement at the beginning of the year but the target was Russia and east Europe. The bait was Red Hat's Enterprise Desktop (never appeared).Aug 06 18:30
_Douga Marketing excercise of 'Live Search', but what do I win for first prize, and don't tell me a copy of Vista?Aug 06 18:30
_DougFor second prize, two copies of Vista?Aug 06 18:31
schestowitzTo kill 2 MBRs?Aug 06 18:32
_DougJustin Carmony and the open source advocates hypocrites.Aug 06 18:36
_Doughttp://www.justincarmony.com/blog/2...Aug 06 18:36
_DougIs this it, they must be gettign desperate?Aug 06 18:37
_Doug"Proprietary Companies (Microsoft, IBM, etc) have legally fought Open Source to snuff out competition" - NO, and please don't include IBM in that group ...Aug 06 18:38
schestowitzHaven't seen that one. This one gets a lot of attention now though: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/08/...Aug 06 18:38
schestowitzIt's related to the whole 'choice' thing (the choice to help defeat or slow down FOSS)Aug 06 18:39
Tallkenschestowitz, http://creativecapitalismblog.com/ , recommended by the author of the same blog post that pointed me to those 3 Times articles; but this one os worth readingAug 06 18:45
Tallkenand yes, smuxi is Mono based, just kidding with ya :)Aug 06 18:45
_Dougexit(0);Aug 06 19:35
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Tallkenschestowitz, you there?Aug 06 23:45
Tallkenwhy is this gone? Microsoft, Novell, Mono and the More Expensive GNUAug 06 23:45
Tallken...to change GNU/LinuxAug 06 23:45
TallkenBoycott Novell - 10:58 PM (49 minutes ago)Aug 06 23:45

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EPO leaks