| schestowitz | :-) It's already done in IRC. | Feb 03 12:41 |
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| oob | ! | Feb 03 12:41 |
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| oob | do tell.. | Feb 03 12:42 |
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| schestowitz | It's mostly in logs | Feb 03 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | It's no secret the people who favour BN realise the role of Microsoft is expansionism. That's why they receive government protection sometimes. Actually, I write about it right now. | Feb 03 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | If I post early, then maybe you can help me proofread. | Feb 03 12:45 |
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| oob | oh, i thought you meant that he had shed some light on the current circumstance | Feb 03 12:46 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, not here, no. | Feb 03 12:46 |
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| schestowitz | But these issues are discussed a lot here. | Feb 03 12:47 |
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| oob | certainly, i would be delighted | Feb 03 12:47 |
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| schestowitz | I'm doing another pass through http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/0... . Do have a look | Feb 03 12:47 |
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| oob | though i'm at GMT+12 | Feb 03 12:47 |
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| schestowitz | There are likely some typos there stil. | Feb 03 12:47 |
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| schestowitz | We develop good understanding of this by communicating | Feb 03 12:48 |
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| schestowitz | I even have people in countries like India dropping names of cronies, so they can't escape under the radar as easily as they could before the Internet. | Feb 03 12:48 |
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| oob | "pampered as expensive" should read "pampered AND.." | Feb 03 12:48 |
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| schestowitz | yes | Feb 03 12:49 |
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| oob | "Microsoft has now a blog.." is a little cumbersome, perhaps "Microsoft now has.." | Feb 03 12:51 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but it's a quote | Feb 03 12:52 |
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| schestowitz | SO I can blame it on someone else | Feb 03 12:52 |
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| oob | "but as we last emphasised last week," also a bit cumbersome, suggest "but as we emphasised last week.." or "but as we emphasised again as recently as last week.." | Feb 03 12:53 |
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| oob | true | Feb 03 12:53 |
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| *schestowitz searches for a picture | Feb 03 12:53 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I see "last __ last" | Feb 03 12:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml | Feb 03 12:54 |
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| oob | yep that's it | Feb 03 12:54 |
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| schestowitz | Royalty-free | Feb 03 12:54 |
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| oob | otherwise all well as far as i can see, great article | Feb 03 12:54 |
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| oob | http://www.stockxpert.com/browse_im... | Feb 03 12:56 |
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| *r0ver has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Feb 03 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Picture added | Feb 03 12:56 |
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| oob | ha! beautiful | Feb 03 12:56 |
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| schestowitz | I was going to do another one | Feb 03 12:56 |
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| schestowitz | I'll just post it as link though (laziness and hurry) | Feb 03 12:56 |
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| schestowitz | Done. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03/... | Feb 03 12:59 |
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| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Feb 03 13:00 |
| oob | great too | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| *schestowitz does a post on ms security | Feb 03 13:01 |
| oob | i don't know how you find the time | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | oob: I got these yesterday | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | Went through the headline quickly. | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | *lines | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| oob | nonetheless, it's a remarkable dedication to research | Feb 03 13:01 |
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| oob | i must adjourn, it's well past bedtime. | Feb 03 13:03 |
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| oob | nice chatting with you. i'll look forward to reading more on this particular topic | Feb 03 13:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind... "Some of Whitehall’s biggest computer projects have spiralled out of control, with total cost overruns of more than €£18 billion, an investigation by The Times can reveal." | Feb 03 13:35 |
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| oiaohm | Ok when was the last time a IT job completed on bugget | Feb 03 13:36 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/27/linux-hate... | Feb 03 13:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://linuxhater.blogspot.com/ "Sorry, the blog at linuxhater.blogspot.com has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs." | Feb 03 13:37 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm | Feb 03 13:38 |
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| oiaohm | I have been to linuxhaters blogspot recently. | Feb 03 13:39 |
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| schestowitz | Some Thoughts On Saving The Economy < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090201... > | Feb 03 13:40 |
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| schestowitz | The Big Fix < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/magazine... > | Feb 03 13:40 |
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| oiaohm | Wonder if google is now cleaning blogspot of hate crimes now. | Feb 03 13:41 |
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| schestowitz | Brilliant: Too Much Facebook Makes Girls Depressed... Or Depressed Girls Use Facebook? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090202/021839... > | Feb 03 13:43 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: it does | Feb 03 13:43 |
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| schestowitz | There is a report tool for removing personal attacks | Feb 03 13:43 |
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| schestowitz | I had some against me and people voted to remove it. It was libelous. | Feb 03 13:43 |
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| oiaohm | There was no need to insult people. | Feb 03 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | Hating and insulting don't have to be joined. | Feb 03 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | Becided he EOF his blog then restarted it. | Feb 03 13:44 |
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| schestowitz | Is Nokia Demanding The Right To Spy On Its Employees? < http://techdirt.com/articles/200902... > | Feb 03 13:45 |
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| oiaohm | Most likely. | Feb 03 13:46 |
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| oiaohm | If we did not have laws there would be more cams in tollets | Feb 03 13:46 |
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| oiaohm | Funny enough most elevators in big building have cams in them yet people still have sex in them. | Feb 03 13:48 |
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| schestowitz | They entertain the guard. | Feb 03 13:49 |
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| oiaohm | It depends on the building its some times fun to set off fire alarm when they are just about to get started if no one else is in building. | Feb 03 13:51 |
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| oiaohm | Note alarm test. | Feb 03 13:51 |
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| schestowitz | is this antoher mole? Q&A: Ex-Yahoo media boss Scott Moore on his new Microsoft job < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/QA_Fo... > | Feb 03 13:51 |
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| oiaohm | For who is the question. | Feb 03 13:52 |
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| oiaohm | Yahoo or Microsoft. | Feb 03 13:52 |
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| schestowitz | NM, same guy.. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/m... | Feb 03 13:53 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: did you try the prank? | Feb 03 13:53 |
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| oiaohm | One of my jobs is building secuirty auditing. | Feb 03 13:54 |
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| oiaohm | So yes I do get to see a lot of very wrong videos. | Feb 03 13:54 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft faces more heat over foreign workers and layoff plans < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/More_heat_f... > | Feb 03 13:54 |
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| oiaohm | Numbers MS is talking about are not enough. | Feb 03 13:55 |
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| oiaohm | There profit percentages unless they can lift them they are done. | Feb 03 13:55 |
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| oiaohm | To build and maintain an OS costs a lot of money. | Feb 03 13:55 |
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| oiaohm | Linux distributes the cost quite effectively. | Feb 03 13:56 |
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| oiaohm | Basically MS is stuck. Cut enough to get to the new profit level not have enought staff to maintain stuff. | Feb 03 13:57 |
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| oiaohm | Open source has effectively screwed them. Apple faced the same issue the reason why the core of there OS is open source. | Feb 03 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | Windows is the next Symbian | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | (i presume you can see the parallels) | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| oiaohm | Yep perfect match up. | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| oiaohm | Both got over priced for what they are. | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| oiaohm | Symbian is trying to stay alive by going open source. | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | Apple's cores: CUPS, BSD, Samba.. | Feb 03 13:59 |
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| oiaohm | The thing is over time Apple is becoming more and more open source friendly because they are learning why Open Source works. | Feb 03 14:00 |
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| oiaohm | By sharing openly you masively save development costs yet still get to product. | Feb 03 14:01 |
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| oiaohm | Ok Apple will most likely always keep a pocket of closed source. | Feb 03 14:01 |
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| oiaohm | There is no way that I can work out to fully kill open source. | Feb 03 14:03 |
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| schestowitz | I? | Feb 03 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, ic | Feb 03 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | That's why Micfrosoft is not campaigning to make FOSS a 'Windows/.NET thing' | Feb 03 14:11 |
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| oiaohm | Tried did not work. | Feb 03 14:14 |
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| oiaohm | MS was wanting a large numbers coverted to .net for the 2012 OS. | Feb 03 14:14 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: still trying | Feb 03 14:16 |
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| schestowitz | Not working if Waugh/Miguel other turncoats get pushed out | Feb 03 14:16 |
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| oiaohm | KDE 4.x when it gets fully working is kinda going to push back and cause some major problems. | Feb 03 14:18 |
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| oiaohm | Why develop .net when you can develop qt4 and get basically the same job done with better ABI. | Feb 03 14:19 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm netcraft is avoiding publishing the ssl servey. | Feb 03 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | I did this the other day | Feb 03 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | I pasted this year | Feb 03 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | 1 million SSL-enabled sites, IIRC | Feb 03 14:22 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/... << Some how I don't think you would agree with netcraft good or bad test. | Feb 03 14:23 |
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| oiaohm | No it did not. SSL survey results give a lot more information in the past. http://news.netcraft.com/SSL-survey << This page is normally updated yearly. | Feb 03 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/786... "YAHOO'S NEW HEAD HONCHO Carol Bartz, who has been jingling her spurs in an attempt to shake things up at Internet search also-ran Yahoo, has offered a $1,000 bounty out of her own substantial paycheck, to encourage Yahooglers to snitch on their colleagues who leak emails to the evil press." | Feb 03 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | Some how I suspect MS is currently Losing. | Feb 03 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | Ok I am getting a insane streek. Attempting to install eclipse in wine. | Feb 03 14:28 |
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| schestowitz | ???/ | Feb 03 14:28 |
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| *r0ver has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Feb 03 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Has not been tested in a while. | Feb 03 14:33 |
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| oiaohm | So far getting eclipse working in wine is a test of endurance. | Feb 03 14:33 |
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| schestowitz | [OT] WFT.. Google is indexing the bloody PDFs! They are rel="nofollowed"... | Feb 03 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | Unless something/someone links to them, this makes no sense. | Feb 03 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie... | Feb 03 14:35 |
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| oiaohm | Google also indexs doc and odf documents as well. | Feb 03 14:38 |
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| oiaohm | Only thing that stops google is the .robot file | Feb 03 14:38 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: yes, it does | Feb 03 14:39 |
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| PetoKraus | :) | Feb 03 14:39 |
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| oiaohm | Hang on that would explain the high load on site | Feb 03 14:42 |
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| oiaohm | was google bot eating you alive as well as something like a slashdoting. | Feb 03 14:42 |
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| schestowitz | Any ildcard for filetypes? | Feb 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | The thing is, some PDFs I do want indexed | Feb 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | Others -- no so much | Feb 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: no, not bots, real visits | Feb 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | It only indexed about 20 PDFs I didn't want it to and it's possible if the PDFs are linked to without rel="nofollow" (e.g. from an external site) | Feb 03 14:44 |
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| schestowitz | Good article: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/... | Feb 03 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | Airlines Defining Anyone Disruptive as Terrorists < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/... > | Feb 03 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism < http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/w... > | Feb 03 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | Disagreeing with war in Iraq can count as terrorism too sometimes. | Feb 03 14:52 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: did you consider that hosting? | Feb 03 14:53 |
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| PetoKraus | which is advertised in freesoftwaremagazine | Feb 03 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | I haven't. | Feb 03 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | I'll install Squid or Pound | Feb 03 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | Some professor is checking for me which one is better | Feb 03 14:54 |
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| PetoKraus | some harvard law proffesor? :) | Feb 03 14:54 |
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| PetoKraus | duh, i can't spell | Feb 03 14:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7824096.stm "How can we be sure new technologies won't have a negative impact, asks Bill Thompson"... but watch the lady frying her brain (and the kid's) with a cellphone | Feb 03 14:56 |
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| schestowitz | Another RIP: Spansion CEO Quits, Chip Maker Seeks Buyer < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158793/spans... > | Feb 03 14:58 |
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| schestowitz | Misconfiguration facilitates worm outbreak in London NHS hospitals < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/126815 > | Feb 03 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/be... "The same filters used to flag search results are used by Google's Gmail service, and according to Google Software Engineer Brad Taylor, during the time the glitch was active, and for some time after, legitimate messages sent to some Gmail accounts were marked as spam and delivered to the user's junk mail folder. " | Feb 03 15:21 |
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| schestowitz | Is there a desktop pager compatible with Compiz sessions? | Feb 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | "The only versions of the machine currently listed are down as Windows XP boxes. There's no word on Linux versions." < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/... > Microsoft is pressuring them. ASUS admitted thisa | Feb 03 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | Google snafu marked Gmail as spam < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/7... > | Feb 03 16:01 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* "A PUBLISHER of CIO arse-covering studies, Forrester Research" http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/... | Feb 03 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | Comcast Apologizes for Super Bowl Porn Glitch < http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/02/... > | Feb 03 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | "Open Source Car" which isn't < http://www.opensource.org/node/385 > | Feb 03 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | What's next? Open source animals (DNA)? | Feb 03 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | Weird post this one... http://www.siriusit.co.uk/myblog/... | Feb 03 16:30 |
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| MinceR | open source water | Feb 03 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | You can remove calls to GetChlorine() | Feb 03 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: where can I get more links on Microsoft's crimes/collusion in Hungary? | Feb 03 16:47 |
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| MinceR | i'll see what i have | Feb 03 16:50 |
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| MinceR | i only have hungarian links | Feb 03 16:50 |
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| MinceR | will those do? | Feb 03 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | Not really | Feb 03 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | That's the issue | Feb 03 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | I'm writing about Kazakhstan right now | Feb 03 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | There's the MOU roadshow | Feb 03 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | I think Hungary got scammed by that too | Feb 03 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | Illegal, potentially | Feb 03 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | They use the crisis to put shackles on people and loot them: http://www.inform.kz/showarticle3.ph... | Feb 03 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* "Microsoft is getting ready to relaunch Vista under the new “Windows 7” brand, in the hopes that Windows XP users find it worth the upgrade." http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02... | Feb 03 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | They already employ a lot of shill to create the illusion that Vista7 is HolyGrail(tm) | Feb 03 16:57 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | schestowitz - you around? | Feb 03 17:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 03 17:02 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Try PRQ for hosting | Feb 03 17:03 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRQ | Feb 03 17:03 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | They host wikileaks among others. | Feb 03 17:03 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | And are not likely to bow down to Microsoft. | Feb 03 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: thanks. | Feb 03 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | I considered Squid | Feb 03 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | I need to get it installed once someone who advises me gets back to me. He was here in IRC the other day | Feb 03 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | You advised this to me before, right? | Feb 03 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | I think it's you who did. | Feb 03 17:08 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Um, not directly. I did mention that I knew a place that was good. | Feb 03 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | Pirate Bay is bad IP (Address) neighbourhood, no? | Feb 03 17:10 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Not as far as I can tell. | Feb 03 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | Another person suggested ibiblio | Feb 03 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | They host Groklaw, which has a dedicated AMD box | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Ibibilio would be good to. You need something that can | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | A - Handle the load | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | B - Won't be pushed around | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| ushimitsudoki | what up fellas | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, ushimitsudoki | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| ushimitsudoki | I got laid off today | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | We need advice: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03... | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | PRQ and Ibiblio are both good that way. | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Morning. | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: many people did. | Feb 03 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | It's not you, it's the economy | Feb 03 17:12 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Ouch. Sorry to hear that. | Feb 03 17:12 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Of course then you got guys like me who can't work. | Feb 03 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: I'll share this with Shane. | Feb 03 17:12 |
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| ushimitsudoki | Yup - 6 years and poof like that. Things getting rough - I was a gov't contractor, so you know shit's getting bad | Feb 03 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | It gets bad with an MOU is signed. :-D | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: Japan, right? | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| ushimitsudoki | Hah - making a site slashdot-proof is a good problem to have | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| ushimitsudoki | Yes, japan | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | I've been reading a fair bit on what happens there. | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | Economy-wise, not IT--wise. | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: we stood stable before | Feb 03 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | I use Coral | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | But.. | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | This means I need to be awake and aware when it happens | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | Like an advance warning that some people E-mail us about. | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | Then I can redirect to Coral. | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | advance warning of the slashdot effect? Sheesh. | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | The issue is, people move b/w pages, so they kind of 'escape' the cashing sandbox | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | *caching | Feb 03 17:14 |
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| *MinceR has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Feb 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: it's easier with Digg | Feb 03 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | You just put your domain and RSS | Feb 03 17:15 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Just curious - how well backed up are you? | Feb 03 17:15 |
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| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: I wish I could make a good recommendation - but not my area. I thought I saw a wordpress plugin once that went to a static site automatically when a certain number of hits was reached? That's one possibility | Feb 03 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | Then you see if something advances close to FP and shield the pages up in the sense that you strip down the PHP file (trimming for DB load) or redirect | Feb 03 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: I back up regularly. So does Shane. | Feb 03 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: yes, WordPress though does what a server-level (not CMS-level) software achieves | Feb 03 17:16 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | What I meant was, is it possible to download the entire site? | Feb 03 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | Also, we use the 'LTS' version of WordPress, so many plugins are likely not to be compatible | Feb 03 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: it used to be possible | Feb 03 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | The host blocked it | Feb 03 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | They set limits | Feb 03 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/site-archives/ | Feb 03 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | IIRC, they took the site down for a few minutes, then put it back online with limits on queries. | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Distributed backups. I have a copy of the Iowa MS stuff here. What I'm saying is that if you get knocked down, say MS sues you for libel, if someone else has a copy, well.... | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: they can't sue for libel | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I think you got the wrong host <G> | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| ushimitsudoki | Whoa. Waugh left GNOME? Is there real hope for the GNOME project? | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | And they won't | Feb 03 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | If anything, I could sue *Them* for libel if they chose this route | Feb 03 17:19 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Of course they can sue for libel, or whatever else they dream of. They might now win, but they can cause as much trouble as possible. If someone else has a copy, well... | Feb 03 17:19 |
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| schestowitz | I once spoke to a lawyer who got Microsoft convicted for libel. I spoke to him in 2006 | Feb 03 17:19 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: GNOME is fine | Feb 03 17:19 |
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| schestowitz | I think Waugh was a PR disaster to them. He caused friction /inside/ GNOME. | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | Murray for example went Rambo on him. | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Hey, I'm paranoid. I've seen to much of this sort of stuff over the years. | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| *r0ver (n=r0ver@200.127.24.112) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 03 17:20 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: I don't trust it right now. Seems too many people are too eager to get mono all over it. With Icaza and Waugh out of the picture, things might look up, though | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: there are already 4 mirrors of Comes that I know of. | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | It was a popular torrent in 2007 | Feb 03 17:20 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Which is how I got it. And how many mirrors of BoycottNovell? | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: Mono is a separate issue. | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | GNOME != Mono | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | But GNOME is deployed with a lot of Mono | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | Ubuntu contains Mono | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | Ubuntu also contains GNOME | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | And I strip Mono out of Ubuntu. | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: no mirror of BN | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: In some ways, I agree. My point is a -lot- of people seem to be trying to change that into "gnome == mono" or at least "all the cool bits of gnome == mono" | Feb 03 17:21 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | There's several threads in the Ubuntu forums covering the issue. | Feb 03 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | I don't think we would mind one. I could set up one at work (simple Apache+PHP+WP thing) | Feb 03 17:22 |
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| ushimitsudoki | I felt like that was something Waugh was supportive of (the further integration of mono in gnome). And I -know- that's something icaza tried to push | Feb 03 17:22 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I think there needs to be mirrors of BN, preferably in different countries. | Feb 03 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: the DB is the core of it | Feb 03 17:23 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Or at least archive copies, that can be put up quickly if anything happens. | Feb 03 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | So it could be floated around without the passwords in the DB. | Feb 03 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw has a mirror too | Feb 03 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | Our issue, however, is separate | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Of Comes yes. Of the writing you've done, if the have it, I didn't see it. | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | Let's say the load on "Effects" is not the issue but regular loads also | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | About 90 DB queries/seconds | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | I think Squid will improve this | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | It ought to serve identical pages without rerunning the whole thing each time | Feb 03 17:24 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I don't know, that sort of stuff is beyond me. | Feb 03 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | Since people don't hammer on the archives as much as on new posts, that ought to help a lot | Feb 03 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know how Pound and Squid work because I never tried it | Feb 03 17:25 |
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| *r0ver (n=r0ver@200.127.24.112) has left #boycottnovell | Feb 03 17:26 |
| schestowitz | I imagine that it's an abstraction layer that keeps copies of pages served and can bypass WordPress | Feb 03 17:26 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Me either. | Feb 03 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | In which case, this would help a lot and keep us on cheap hosting. | Feb 03 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | Shane pays those bills. | Feb 03 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | The ads help cover this | Feb 03 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | So if we moved elsewhere, that would complicate things, I think. | Feb 03 17:27 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Heh. Thinking about off-site backups, why setup a torrent? | Feb 03 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | "Why setup" or "why /not/"? | Feb 03 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: it's not simple | Feb 03 17:27 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Sorry, pain killers are kicking in. Why not? | Feb 03 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | I need to ask Shane if he's OK with floating his posts and the passwords need to be stripped off the DB | Feb 03 17:28 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I meant technically. | Feb 03 17:28 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: I have statics of the pages. I could zip them up and make that a torrent hosted from here. | Feb 03 17:28 |
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| schestowitz | That would make the equivalent of paper trail 'backup' of the site | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | It's possible to set up a torrent, and add to it over time. | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| schestowitz | But anyway, that's a separate matter | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| schestowitz | Another issue is navigation, I think. | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | So once a week you add the new pages, and anyone who is downloading the torrent gets them automatically. | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| schestowitz | If you want to make a sort of ebook, that mat be possible, but it need grepping | Feb 03 17:29 |
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| schestowitz | Like s/http:\/boycottnovell.com\/./ | Feb 03 17:30 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | yes, that could be a bit of work. | Feb 03 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | Oops, sed, not grep | Feb 03 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, regarding hosting, it's up to Shane really. | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post that log for him to read. | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I've tried setting up an apache/php server once or twice, and messed it up pretty badly. | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | That's acceptable for just secondary (backup) | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | K, anyway I better go grab another pill, I'm hurting like a bastard today. | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| jose__ | The_Mad_Hatter, have you added to existing torrents before.. i thought that affected the torrent attributes and effectively means you are creating a new torrent .. meaning, i would imagine, that it would not be picked up by those grabbing the old (???) | Feb 03 17:31 |
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| jose__ | schestowitz, can you package all the config data for wp and the source tarball.. then add the db and that should be it, right? | Feb 03 17:32 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | jose - if it was explained to me right, it can be done. I admit that it's not my area of expertise. | Feb 03 17:32 |
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| jose__ | might there be security risks in giving all that info out? | Feb 03 17:32 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | jose - as long as passwords aren't included, and personal info in scrubbed, it should be ok | Feb 03 17:33 |
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| jose__ | also if you give to trusted folks, they can do some work in converting. | Feb 03 17:33 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Point is BN is drawing a lot of attention. It's critical of MS. MS has a habit of targeting anyone critical of them. | Feb 03 17:35 |
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| jose__ | The_Mad_Hatter, i would think the confi data might be required for optimum effect (in general) and mentioned the source to mean the version of wp (in case future versions don't handle old data accurately) as well as any patches/plugins etc | Feb 03 17:35 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | jose__ - don't know - again that's not my area of expertise. Now if you want someone to take apart a file using a hex editor.... | Feb 03 17:36 |
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| jose__ | The_Mad_Hatter.. I completely understand the "why" of distributing widely among trusted groups | Feb 03 17:36 |
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| jose__ | The_Hex_Hatter .. I'll have to remember that. | Feb 03 17:36 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Hell, I'd distribute it everywhere. | Feb 03 17:36 |
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| jose__ | "everywhere" qualifies as among trusted if the goal is to get coverage | Feb 03 17:37 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Wonders of the internet. One copy can become 10,000 copies in under a minute. | Feb 03 17:37 |
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| jose__ | for the time being, volunteers can simply grab digested online copies of various pages.. not randomly but organized so that everything is covered by two or more. | Feb 03 17:37 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | And considering how quickly MS got the Comes stuff taken off line, we want copies | Feb 03 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03/call-... | Feb 03 17:38 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | of BN on computers everywhere. I don't trust those bastards, and while Roy thinks he can handle them legally, I'm not so sure. | Feb 03 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: yes, replicating is simple | Feb 03 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | Given a LAMP server set up (centos for example), it's a matter of dropping in the DB and home directory | Feb 03 17:39 |
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| jose__ | yes, that's what i meant.. so which centos standard distrib would be useful info. | Feb 03 17:39 |
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| jose__ | in 5 or 10 years, devs might break with past | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| jose__ | of course, if we know the time period, we could just fetch sw from the time period | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | But that's why open source is so useful, the breaks can be coded around. | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: they also tried to take "Boycott Microsoft "offline | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's sort of down (it moves) | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | *moved | Feb 03 17:40 |
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| jose__ | i know | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Of course I prefer straight GPL myself. Anything that Microsoft doesn't like, has got to be good. | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| jose__ | but if all you have is a data file.. it takes skill and time | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| jose__ | to guesstimate the foss that produced it | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | Read this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/2... | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | "Now I’m asking myself, how does this Microsoft employee come to be calling my place of business? I certainly don’t post my company phone number on the Boycott Microsoft site." | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Yeah, what I'd expect. That's why I'm advocating lots of copies. If they take it offline, it comes back - think of the Hydra in Greek myth. | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | The site is not there anymore, but one person found it. They moved (Mitch) | Feb 03 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | It was receiving a lot of attention (PageRank 6) | Feb 03 17:42 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: remember patent trolltacker? | Feb 03 17:42 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | MS doesn't like criticism. | Feb 03 17:42 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/patent-... | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | He got sued | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Yeah, I was a regular there. | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | But Cisco was sued as well | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | So they can say he 'shilled' for Cisco | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | This one got cybersquatted: http://boycottnovell.com/bill... | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | The guy who built it (collaborator) gave me a copy happily | Feb 03 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | So the DB lives on, although it's not particularly well oraganised... well, the info is still there in full,. | Feb 03 17:44 |
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| *kentma1 (n=user@host86-171-2-178.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 03 17:44 |
| schestowitz | wb, kentma | Feb 03 17:44 |
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| schestowitz | Does BT do VPS? | Feb 03 17:44 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | That's why I'd like to see copies of BN everywhere. So that MS knows that a lawsuit isn't going to get rid of them. | Feb 03 17:44 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02... | Feb 03 17:44 |
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| schestowitz | Had we not been downed on Sunday, we'd make another front page in Digg and other sites | Feb 03 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | But the chance was missed due to the technical mess that occurred | Feb 03 17:45 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Have you followed the action at Wikileaks? | Feb 03 17:46 |
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| schestowitz | The Microsoft blogs are feeding the Net Applications nonsense, I see....... | Feb 03 17:46 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: yes | Feb 03 17:46 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I'm clear. What I mean is that MS has no leverage on me, since I don't work. | Feb 03 17:47 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | But most people work, and MS can lean. | Feb 03 17:47 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | While they can't use leverage on me, I can't do a lot either, other than talk. So that's what I do. | Feb 03 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | I asked Groklaw for a DB copy, but no.. | Feb 03 17:51 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Getting back to Wikileaks, I was one of the many who grabbed the torrent of their database, I have it backed up here | Feb 03 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Others wanted a copy, that's why I asked | Feb 03 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Do you also have the Wikipedia DB? :-p | Feb 03 17:51 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | PJ is paranoid. Note that this is not a diagnosis. | Feb 03 17:52 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Wikipedia? Don't think I have enough storage space. Remember, I don't work, so got no money. | Feb 03 17:52 |
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| jose__ | I've got the wikipedia db... why? | Feb 03 17:53 |
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| jose__ | :P | Feb 03 17:53 |
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| jose__ | all one hegazillgooglion of it | Feb 03 17:54 |
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| *kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Feb 03 17:54 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | I think that Al Petrofsky has a copy of Groklaw. | Feb 03 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: what do you mean "paranoid"? | Feb 03 17:59 |
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| schestowitz | Because the MOGster said so? | Feb 03 17:59 |
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| schestowitz | She has her reasons for apprehension and she doesn't want to use PGP encryption for reasonable causes. | Feb 03 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: the Wikipedia DB is not so big | Feb 03 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | I think it would fit a hard-drive nicely if you exclude the multimedia components | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | No, like me. She doesn't trust a lot of people, and with good reason. | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | I got a message this morning too | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | I have to ensure it's not a hoax | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | It's about a Microsoft shill. | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| jose__ | open works to add security and remove some of the trust issues. | Feb 03 18:01 |
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| jose__ | -> openness | Feb 03 18:02 |
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| schestowitz | Also, PJ was betrayed by marbux, so she can't just trust anyone | Feb 03 18:02 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Marbux was an ass. | Feb 03 18:02 |
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| jose__ | my bried dealings with marbux appeared sane. | Feb 03 18:03 |
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| jose__ | he seemed to have quite a thing against ibm | Feb 03 18:03 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | You can be sane, and still be an ass. | Feb 03 18:03 |
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| jose__ | this bias is what i think perhaps was interpretable as pro-ms | Feb 03 18:03 |
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| jose__ | well, then what did you not like about him | Feb 03 18:03 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | He backstabbed PJ. | Feb 03 18:04 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | At least that's how it looked to me, and I like PJ a lot. | Feb 03 18:04 |
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| jose__ | i exchanged a few private emails in follow up to him getting booted off odf oiic list.. private stuff but he seemed to have reasonable approach and ideas | Feb 03 18:04 |
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| jose__ | and i think he underestimated ms | Feb 03 18:04 |
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| jose__ | he may not be a tech junkie | Feb 03 18:05 |
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| jose__ | i got a hint that there was a falling out between him and pj, but that doesn't automatically mean he is an ass.. that's their private matter i supposed | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Maybe. Never talked to him direct, but I did talk to PJ direct several times over the last 4-5 years, and I like her. | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| jose__ | suppose | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| jose__ | yes, that's fine | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| jose__ | i respect a lot what she has done | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| jose__ | and i respect her approach in many ways | Feb 03 18:06 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Guess I'm old fashioned. I tend to treat women better than I treat men. | Feb 03 18:07 |
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| jose__ | i don't agree with everything, but that's because she is not me. :-) | Feb 03 18:07 |
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| jose__ | you can do that, and you can like pj, and still be level headed | Feb 03 18:07 |
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| jose__ | or so i try to be.. .. and am not implying you aren't.. but no one should ever get a free ticket | Feb 03 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: marbux mails me regularly | Feb 03 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | Despite the fact that I publicly denounced him many times. | Feb 03 18:08 |
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| jose__ | pos or neg? i stopped talking with him after that brief period.. i figured i might reply more at some point.. he writes a lot. | Feb 03 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | I used to mail him every day | Feb 03 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | Becuase he helped with News Picks | Feb 03 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | He's still involved in some circulations | Feb 03 18:09 |
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| jose__ | he does seem respectable.. but there apparently was a falling out of sorts.. again, i really feel he distrusts ibm but is partially oblivious to ms | Feb 03 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: yes, he writes scroils | Feb 03 18:09 |
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| jose__ | scro ... what? | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| schestowitz | I feel guilty if I don't read through the scrolls | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| jose__ | yes | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| schestowitz | typo | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| jose__ | lol | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | hang on | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| jose__ | i read too, but i really wanted to back away from the odf topic for a while | Feb 03 18:10 |
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| jose__ | all companies are in tough binds. this applies to ms, novell, ibm, etc.. but we still have to call the worst threats to defend the base community | Feb 03 18:11 |
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| jose__ | thought it helped ibm in many ways.. pj was doing just that, defending the base community | Feb 03 18:11 |
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| jose__ | ditto with bn, etc. | Feb 03 18:12 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Now I can't find it. There's a web site where a bunch of ex-groklaw people have been hanging out. I know I bookmarked it, but I can't remember where. | Feb 03 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | What's the site like? | Feb 03 18:16 |
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| *MinceR_ (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 03 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I know it | Feb 03 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | In 2006-07 I was mailing marbux and pj several times per day | Feb 03 18:16 |
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| jose__ | roy.. that's like a couple bn databases per day! | Feb 03 18:17 |
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| jose__ | that's where your resilience comes from | Feb 03 18:17 |
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| *MinceR_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Feb 03 18:18 |
| jose__ | i'm kidding.. pj never wrote extensively to me directly in the few exchanges and marbux does write fine and i like his thorough coverage | Feb 03 18:18 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | something about flame wars I think. | Feb 03 18:19 |
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| jose__ | http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructur... | Feb 03 18:19 |
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| jose__ | baby steps into the bsd word perhaps | Feb 03 18:19 |
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| jose__ | -> world | Feb 03 18:20 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Got it - http://www.ip-wars.net/ | Feb 03 18:21 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | but it's down. Latest copy at Archive is from Feb. 2008 | Feb 03 18:22 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | http://web.archive.org/web/2008021... | Feb 03 18:22 |
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| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Feb 03 18:26 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Ohh. Ohh. The pain. I'm laughing so hard my stomache hurts. Remember RSS using tinfoil on his passport and ID card? | Feb 03 18:31 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: what do you mean by "that's where your resilience comes from" | Feb 03 18:32 |
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| jose__ | you don't sleep | Feb 03 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: that's an anti-Groklaw site | Feb 03 18:32 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Read this, it's freaking hilarious | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | She hates it | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | yeah, but that's where Marbux showed up. | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: yes, but it didn't come from that | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Don't know why he showed up there, but I did see his tag there. | Feb 03 18:33 |
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| jose__ | i was joking | Feb 03 18:34 |
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| jose__ | the only thing that bothered me a bit more than normal about pj-groklaw was that i think people should be able to express their concerns and speak their mind. when you judge content, it becomes a guessing game. | Feb 03 18:36 |
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| jose__ | by judge i mean to moderate out | Feb 03 18:37 |
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| jose__ | i want to have my say in ms sites (well, let's assume) | Feb 03 18:37 |
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| jose__ | this doesn't mean there aren't reasons to moderate | Feb 03 18:37 |
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| jose__ | i don't know really what gets moderated. | Feb 03 18:37 |
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| jose__ | once i was warned for something i thought was innocent | Feb 03 18:37 |
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| jose__ | i don't like creating trouble, especially with essentially friendly hosts | Feb 03 18:38 |
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| jose__ | i'd rather remember all the positives about groklaw.. this neg stands out because free speech is so important | Feb 03 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | The_Mad_Hatter: are you related to the "Onideus Mad Hatter"? | Feb 03 18:39 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Moderation is a curse. If you do it you are cursed. If you don't do it you are cursed. | Feb 03 18:39 |
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| jose__ | yes, i know | Feb 03 18:39 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | No. But I am the same person who posted on Groklaw using this tag. | Feb 03 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | Ah, OK | Feb 03 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: thanks for the LT link. I saw some related job ad from MS earlier | Feb 03 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | LT cites /. ..... now, that's exceptional | Feb 03 18:42 |
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| jose__ | btw, with control over a site, i would definitely tend to moderate to get rid of attacks, spam (obviously) and certain other content inappropriate for the audience. | Feb 03 18:42 |
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| jose__ | i already saw myself in action | Feb 03 18:42 |
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| jose__ | it's something you appreciate more from the outside. | Feb 03 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Motorola Reports $3.6B Loss as Phone Sales Fall by Half < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158797/motorola... > | Feb 03 18:43 |
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| jose__ | in this one case i blocked something from a site, i went to some trouble to explain the reason. | Feb 03 18:43 |
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| jose__ | it's a horrible predicament to be in. | Feb 03 18:43 |
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| jose__ | yet, because I know *my* intentions, you are affected as an outsider when you are on the receiving end. | Feb 03 18:43 |
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| schestowitz | It's inevitable if you get attention | Feb 03 18:43 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | I prefer no moderation myself. I believe in freedom. But there are times when you have to step in. | Feb 03 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | The clowns go where they can make a circus with an audience | Feb 03 18:44 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Like this one site I was running, where some idiot thought that freedom to comment, meant freedom to advertise. | Feb 03 18:44 |
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| jose__ | :-) | Feb 03 18:44 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | And was posting so many ads, that the users started to leave. | Feb 03 18:45 |
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| jose__ | the rights of the group over the rights of the individual... | Feb 03 18:45 |
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| jose__ | the balancing act | Feb 03 18:45 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Yeah. Moderation is necessary, but it needs to be used with care. | Feb 03 18:46 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | FYI - I use a lot of different names, in a lot of different places. | Feb 03 18:46 |
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| schestowitz | If you moderate, you can scare away participants. | Feb 03 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | Likewise, as in the case of COLA (USENET) of BN, when commenters start attacking other commenters, that's troubles | Feb 03 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | A lot of BN readers would also never comment because of the site's name | Feb 03 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | In Groklaw, comments are deliberately excludes from pages that search engines can index | Feb 03 18:48 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Yeah. a lot of people thought PJ was too heavy on the moderation. | Feb 03 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | High five! Now Brazil Goes Big on the GNU/Linux Desktop < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009... > | Feb 03 18:49 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | But she had damned good reason to be. Some of the personal attacks that were made on here were pretty bad. | Feb 03 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | "At the end of last year I wrote about a big Brazilian project to provide 150,000 GNU/Linux notebooks for schools. Now the Brazilian Ministry of Education has topped that by ordering 324,000 "green" workstations running on GNU/Linux (although I can't quite tell whether this is as well as or instead of - anyone know?)." | Feb 03 18:49 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Nope, but good for Brazil. | Feb 03 18:50 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Ah, lunch. I'll be back. | Feb 03 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | Brazilian exports of soy, iron ore and oil to China are expected to fall 12 percent to US$11.2 billion in 2009, according to a forecast from the Brazil-China Council published in < http://www.macauhub.com.mo/en/news.php?ID=6815 > | Feb 03 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/ | Feb 03 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | Cool! | Feb 03 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/?s1=Boycott+N... | Feb 03 18:53 |
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| jose__ | funny link | Feb 03 18:56 |
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| jose__ | check out this materpiece: http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/?s1=BOY... | Feb 03 18:56 |
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| *The_Mad_Hatter has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Feb 03 18:57 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/... | Feb 03 18:58 |
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