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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 4th, 2009 - Part 2



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jose__i'm boring the heck out of myself ..that's for sureFeb 04 03:07
schestowitzoob: let me checkFeb 04 03:10
schestowitzI remember their OOXML stint/stuntFeb 04 03:10
schestowitzWhy do they play with criminals?Feb 04 03:11
oobyes. damning with faint praise, organising a pro-ms conference, sabotaging the Oz ISO vote..Feb 04 03:11
schestowitzBecause the criminals say "We're nice people"?Feb 04 03:11
oobthe waughs are wholly self-interested. their raison d'etre is self promotion. FOSS has been their vehicle and they'll move from it readily when a more suitable vehicle presents itselfFeb 04 03:14
oobi have no doubt that jeff has sucked upon the redmond teat financially.Feb 04 03:15
schestowitzI think they get bamboozled by Microsoft/Novell sometimesFeb 04 03:16
schestowitzI don't think it's badly intendedFeb 04 03:16
schestowitzBut Waugh ignores the criminal behaviour of these criminalsFeb 04 03:17
schestowitzTo make matter worse in such situations, such people expect you to to pardon and hug criminalsFeb 04 03:17
oobi disagree - i think that gnome in particular and the community of f/oss has been (and continues to be) cynically exploited by the waughs.Feb 04 03:17
schestowitzFialing that, they call you names like the daemonisation term of the day (hater|zealot|etc)Feb 04 03:18
oob"vocal minority" is my favoriteFeb 04 03:18
schestowitzHow could Jeff benefit from RedmondFeb 04 03:18
oobit's a venacular perpared for them by pr folks in salt lake and redmondFeb 04 03:18
schestowitzUnless the Vole hired him or his wife (not impossible), then I don't quite see itFeb 04 03:18
schestowitzoob: *LOL*Feb 04 03:19
schestowitzYes, "vocal minority"*             *copyright, Waugh PartnersFeb 04 03:19
oiaohmhttp://linux-haters.blogspot.com/  LOL 1 char outFeb 04 03:19
oobconsultancy fees? how much did jolliffe receive for his anti-odf work?Feb 04 03:19
schestowitzA otFeb 04 03:19
schestowitzA lotFeb 04 03:19
schestowitzBut did they do sellout (aka) consulting for Microsoft?Feb 04 03:19
oobwhy would anyone do what they did for free?Feb 04 03:20
oobbetter question - how much would it cost to purchase jeff waugh's integrity?Feb 04 03:20
oobmy guess is very, very littleFeb 04 03:21
schestowitzHow would they be paid to promote the Microsoft party line, if at all though?Feb 04 03:21
schestowitzknow about Redmok selling outFeb 04 03:22
schestowitz*RedmonkFeb 04 03:22
oobthey own a consultancy practice. i imagine that business's accounts would make interesting readingFeb 04 03:23
oiaohmI always like one of the questions I heard in one interviewFeb 04 03:23
oiaohmto balmerFeb 04 03:23
oiaohmHow much would it cost to buy you to push open source.Feb 04 03:23
ooboiaohm, what was the response?Feb 04 03:24
oiaohmNo answerFeb 04 03:25
oiaohmInterview ended.Feb 04 03:25
schestowitzNo talking points?Feb 04 03:26
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/...Feb 04 03:27
schestowitzgnFeb 04 03:29
oiaohmschestowitz: look at that linux-haters blog someone put up a joke.Feb 04 03:29
oiaohmWonder if we could get a stack of people google it and visit is so making it the top google search.Feb 04 03:29
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tessier__schestowitz: I never personally met Hans Reiser. Only dealt with him briefly via email.Feb 04 04:53
tessier__But yes, I think he did have issues even before Linux.Feb 04 04:53
balzaclartFeb 04 04:53
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jose__schestowitz, I think the last draft sent at this time is good to go. [It ends with link xxxxx....0013 ] Thanks.Feb 04 05:18
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jose__You can just say that this is the first part of possibly 3 parts.Feb 04 05:19
jose__The rest is explained at the end of part 1.Feb 04 05:19
jose__so there is no need to repeat it in your introduction.. if you introduce it.Feb 04 05:20
jose__ie, there is no need to add the synopsis i wrote in that earlier draft even though it's still accurate.Feb 04 05:20
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schestowitzMorningFeb 04 09:05
PetoKrausmorningFeb 04 09:33
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MinceRgeekingsFeb 04 09:37
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oobgood eveningFeb 04 10:06
schestowitzHeyFeb 04 10:07
schestowitzJust got a new comment on the Waugh articleFeb 04 10:07
schestowitzInterest one. Have a look.Feb 04 10:07
oobi wrote itFeb 04 10:08
schestowitzAh, OKFeb 04 10:09
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oiaohmHmm everyone asleep?Feb 04 12:28
oobhello oiaohm, nice to see youFeb 04 12:29
schestowitzHey, wbFeb 04 12:29
oiaohmOk just nothing of interest.Feb 04 12:30
oiaohmEmbrace and Extend MS model.    KDE appears to be copying it.Feb 04 12:31
oobhow so?Feb 04 12:31
oiaohmEmbrace MS and Mac and extend them.Feb 04 12:32
MinceRplease start making senseFeb 04 12:33
ooblink?Feb 04 12:33
oiaohmGoal of KDE 4.x line is to run everywhere.Feb 04 12:34
oobhow is that embrace and extend?Feb 04 12:35
oiaohmIf it simple to build applications for KDE cross platform than what its is for windows you have embranced windows and effectively slowly take its applications to the new extented api.Feb 04 12:36
oiaohmKDE 4.2 almost can replace the complete windows desktop interface.Feb 04 12:38
oobsounds like wishful thinking to me. surely ms has an inherent and unassailable advantage through control of their platform?Feb 04 12:38
oiaohmThe thing here MS really does not.Feb 04 12:39
oiaohmKDE sits on QT.   You kill QT you kill Photoshop.Feb 04 12:39
schestowitzoiaohm: embrace and extend is when Microsoft does itFeb 04 12:39
schestowitzFirefox is embrace and extend??Feb 04 12:40
oiaohmFirefox is not altering the API that programmers use.Feb 04 12:40
oiaohmKDE is a huge API set for application development in its own right.Feb 04 12:41
oiaohmIts almost larger than the MS default API in Windows.Feb 04 12:41
oiaohmAt some point the Open Source world had to try to take the thrid party application developers away from Microsoft.Feb 04 12:44
oobagreedFeb 04 12:44
MinceRoiaohm: explain the "extinguish" part nowFeb 04 12:45
MinceRprotip: FLOSS can't do itFeb 04 12:45
oiaohmExtinguish FLOSS can do.  Look at the Unix world and you will see how.Feb 04 12:46
oiaohmExtinguish is quite simplely devaluing the closed source product.Feb 04 12:46
MinceRyet most FLOSS sw still can run on unixFeb 04 12:46
MinceRthis quite simply has nothing to do with EEEFeb 04 12:47
oobback up - how is unix devalued?Feb 04 12:47
oiaohmKDE on Windows does open up a direct threat against Outlook exchanage combination for business.Feb 04 12:47
oiaohmLinux could do what Unix could without the cost.Feb 04 12:47
MinceRan important portion of EEE is that you _change_ the standards to an obscure form others can't stay compatible withFeb 04 12:48
oiaohmSo for a lot of tasks price could be demarded for Unix disappeared.Feb 04 12:48
MinceRhow do you obscure the formats/protocols of FLOSS?Feb 04 12:48
ooboiaohm, that's an oversimplificationFeb 04 12:48
oiaohmUnix holds on where it still has advantages.Feb 04 12:48
oiaohmAreas where its advantages have not been devalued.Feb 04 12:49
oobMinceR makes a good point, particularly as abi/api stability as heeb a tradional f/oss issueFeb 04 12:49
MinceRtraditional floss issue, except it happens to non-floss too?Feb 04 12:49
MinceRsee dll hell.Feb 04 12:49
ooblinux's advantages over unix appear to me to be mindshare, licencing and x86,Feb 04 12:50
oiaohmThere are solutions to dll hell.Feb 04 12:50
MinceRone of them is upgrading to linux.Feb 04 12:51
oiaohmLinux has dependancy hell in lots of distributions.Feb 04 12:51
oobproprietary systems have tended to have more stable apis/abis, hence their backwards compatability. f/oss projects are unconstrained in this by paying customersFeb 04 12:51
oiaohmThat is kinda worse.Feb 04 12:51
MinceRunix is dying because nobody wants to reinvent the wheel when they can cooperate with others instead.Feb 04 12:51
oiaohmDepends on the Foss project.Feb 04 12:51
MinceRunix is much more expensive to maintain than linuxFeb 04 12:51
oobi disagreeFeb 04 12:52
MinceR(on the developer side)Feb 04 12:52
oiaohmIncorrect solarias has always had better configruation tools for a lot of things.Feb 04 12:52
MinceR135604 < oob> proprietary systems have tended to have more stable apis/abis, hence their backwards compatability. f/oss projects are unconstrainedFeb 04 12:52
MinceR              in this by paying customersFeb 04 12:52
oiaohmReason why its still holding on.Feb 04 12:52
MinceRdo red hat and canonical ring a bell?Feb 04 12:52
oobhaving had quite a long career doing both, from the sys maintenance sideFeb 04 12:52
MinceRor dozens other companies who develop FLOSS and have paying customers?Feb 04 12:52
MinceRoiaohm: 135640 < MinceR> (on the developer side)Feb 04 12:52
oiaohmSame on the developer side as well.  Dtrace so you found problems quicky on solariasFeb 04 12:53
oobMinceR, distributions have a vested interest in api/abi stability, projects have less of an interest. do you appreciate the distinction?Feb 04 12:53
oiaohmYes it was faster in some cases to rebuild the program giving you trouble in Linux on solarias and debug it there.Feb 04 12:53
MinceRoiaohm: never mind having to develop the same feature for all unixes separatelyFeb 04 12:53
MinceRoob: distros patch projects when neededFeb 04 12:54
oiaohmLinux pased a lot of the Unixs.Feb 04 12:54
MinceRoften they contribute to them tooFeb 04 12:54
oiaohmSolarias is the last one standing.Feb 04 12:54
MinceRoiaohm: what about developing kernel components?Feb 04 12:54
oobmincer - patching is not necessarily breaking api/abi compatibility.Feb 04 12:54
MinceRoob: it might fix compatibility issues though.Feb 04 12:55
oiaohmSimpler in solarias until recently due to a stable ABI in kernel space and better debuging tools.Feb 04 12:55
MinceRfor example, backporting features to an older version.Feb 04 12:55
MinceR(so you can use the older version and get the new features/bugfixes)Feb 04 12:55
oiaohmBasically Linux lost on most fronts against solariasFeb 04 12:55
MinceRlolFeb 04 12:55
oobtrue, that helps to smooth things outFeb 04 12:55
MinceRyes, we can see the whole world using solaris nowFeb 04 12:55
oobbut consider - will kde 3.5 applications run on a user's desktop if that user has just installed kde 4.2?Feb 04 12:56
oiaohmSolarias has lost in some places as well.Feb 04 12:56
MinceRsun isn't afraid of linux at all, no sir!Feb 04 12:56
MinceRoob: they probably willFeb 04 12:56
ooband contrast that with a user who installs windows xp and tries to execute a windows 2000 application.Feb 04 12:56
oiaohmLinux can scale to larger systems than SolaraisFeb 04 12:56
MinceRoob: even if installing kde 3.5 apps brings in kde3 librariesFeb 04 12:56
oobmaybe so, but my bet would be that the windows user has a better chance of successFeb 04 12:56
MinceRoob: compare it to running a winxp app on vistaFeb 04 12:56
MinceRguess what, they breakFeb 04 12:57
oiaohmLinux only started beating Solarais when it started matching solarias or beating solarias in areas.Feb 04 12:57
oobreally? that's interestingFeb 04 12:57
MinceRbut you won't get winxp components on vista to help run those appsFeb 04 12:57
oiaohmProblem is by the end of 2010 Solarias might not have a unque feature better than Linux any more.Feb 04 12:57
oiaohmIf anything it will behind on every front.Feb 04 12:57
oiaohmSo defeated.Feb 04 12:58
ooboiaohm, i can think of very few technical advantages linux enjoys over solaris. i think the success there is more attributable to the prevalance of x86 tin over sparc and costFeb 04 12:58
schestowitzAnd costFeb 04 12:58
oiaohmLinux kernel 4000+ processor support in a single system.Feb 04 12:58
schestowitzOops. You said that alreadyFeb 04 12:58
oiaohmSolarias does not have that.Feb 04 12:58
MinceRoiaohm: it's defeated because only sun can/will improve itFeb 04 12:58
oob:-)Feb 04 12:58
MinceRwhich is exactly what i was talking aboutFeb 04 12:58
oiaohmNot really.Feb 04 12:58
schestowitzMinceR: but there is 'open' solarisFeb 04 12:59
oiaohmSolaris does not have the suppers to design that large any more.Feb 04 12:59
schestowitzRoll up your sleeves and help Sun :-)Feb 04 12:59
oobtoo little too late there i reckon schestowitzFeb 04 12:59
MinceRwhich is still owned by sun and about which nobody else caresFeb 04 12:59
schestowitzWrite some patches for them to defeat GNUFeb 04 12:59
oiaohmAlso Solaris need real time alterations to catch up.Feb 04 12:59
MinceRand afaik it differs from solaris in a lot of thingsFeb 04 12:59
oiaohmReal time altertations to Linux kernel doubled to quaded the threw put of super computers running Linux.Feb 04 12:59
MinceRschestowitz: i'd rather see sun die -- they've shown no intent to cooperateFeb 04 12:59
oobwhoaFeb 04 13:00
oobthat's a bit roughFeb 04 13:00
schestowitzWe need SunFeb 04 13:00
MinceRwell, check out the zfs/cddl issue thenFeb 04 13:00
schestowitzJava, OOo...Feb 04 13:00
oiaohmBefore the alterations Linux suppers were beating sun.Feb 04 13:00
MinceRjava sucks, ooo sucksFeb 04 13:00
oobwhat about nfs? nis+? java? tcl/tk? openoffice? ldap?Feb 04 13:00
schestowitzMinceR: we get btrfs (better fs than zfsFeb 04 13:00
schestowitzIt'll get better over timeFeb 04 13:00
MinceRschestowitz: through no virtue of sunFeb 04 13:00
MinceRi've never used nfs and nisFeb 04 13:01
MinceRand i abhor tcl/tkFeb 04 13:01
oobokay well, once upon a time a very long time ago, nfs/nis was very important to a lot of peopleFeb 04 13:01
oiaohmtk was one of the first toolkitsFeb 04 13:01
oiaohmSo being bad is kinda to be expected.Feb 04 13:01
oiaohmBiggest advnatage solarias had over Linux is its containers.Feb 04 13:02
oiaohmLinux is catching up on them verry quicky.Feb 04 13:02
MinceRthe language is ugly, tooFeb 04 13:03
oiaohmTCL yes that is also old.Feb 04 13:03
MinceRoob: well, those times have passedFeb 04 13:03
oiaohmIt is a little nicer than Bash.Feb 04 13:03
MinceRlolFeb 04 13:03
oobMinceR, as a matter of fact they haven't, nfs is still extremely prevalentFeb 04 13:03
oobthough i'll grant you, nis has diedFeb 04 13:04
MinceR"once upon a time a very long time ago"Feb 04 13:04
*oob sighsFeb 04 13:04
oobonce upon a time a very long time ago, the _combination_ of nfs and nis..Feb 04 13:04
MinceRwell, that combination is dead now :>Feb 04 13:04
oobindeed, superseded by ldapFeb 04 13:05
oiaohmldap for some reason keeps on going.Feb 04 13:05
oiaohmAnd going and going.Feb 04 13:05
oobwhat would you suggest we use as a replacement?Feb 04 13:05
oiaohmReally ldap will not be replaced because I don't think anyone can design a replacement.  But it will get extented again.  This time by open source.Feb 04 13:07
MinceRdo you suggest we celebrate sun as the champion of FLOSS for something they did ages ago, despite what they're doing now?Feb 04 13:07
MinceRi'm sure that would make sun very happyFeb 04 13:07
oiaohmSun is no longer a computer super power.Feb 04 13:08
MinceRwhich is fortunateFeb 04 13:08
oobi'm saying that we should acknowledge sun's longstanding contributions to and involvement with f/oss, balanced by the knowledge that they are a commercial enterprise whose better days are now goneFeb 04 13:08
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oiaohmReally not.  Sun was one of the first to be fullly open about there hardware specs.Feb 04 13:08
MinceRit's all ancient history nowFeb 04 13:09
oiaohmThat has never changed.Feb 04 13:09
MinceRtheir hostility to linux isn't.Feb 04 13:09
oiaohmHostility to Linux is understandable.  Remember sun at one point controled 45 percent of the super market.Feb 04 13:09
oiaohmThey now hold less than 5.Feb 04 13:09
oiaohmCause Linux.Feb 04 13:10
oiaohmYou are talking about billions of dollars of income cut off there bottom line.Feb 04 13:10
oob*bsd is hostile towards linux, and to gnu in general, yet their contribution is still valuable. let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, it's a good thing that there is choice at the platform layer just as their is at other layersFeb 04 13:10
MinceRit's understandable, but not compatible with their trying to parade as teh great FLOSS championsFeb 04 13:11
oiaohmLinux does need competition.Feb 04 13:11
MinceR*bsd fanboys are hostile because nobody cares about them because they're averse to innovationFeb 04 13:11
oiaohmNot like MS stands a chance in the super market any time soon.Feb 04 13:11
oobmincer - they're very keen on api/abi stability :)Feb 04 13:12
MinceRi'd rather see hurd compete with linuxFeb 04 13:12
MinceRoob: i'm sure using an outdated init/rc system has a lot to do with thatFeb 04 13:12
oiaohmHostity between competing projects is kinda normal.Feb 04 13:12
oiaohmRemember the old hostity between KDE and Gnome.Feb 04 13:12
MinceRoiaohm: nope, you can compete without being hostileFeb 04 13:12
MinceRi only remember the flame wars between fanboys.Feb 04 13:13
oobbsd is a superb platform, it out-performs linux on a variety of workloads. it's code stacks up well too, it's a lot tighter and cleaner than the linux kernel and gnu stuffFeb 04 13:13
oiaohmin 1995 it was at the developer level MinceRFeb 04 13:13
oiaohmOver time it cooled off.Feb 04 13:13
MinceRlinux outperforms bsd in many casesFeb 04 13:13
oiaohmAs they saw it was more helpful to work with each other.Feb 04 13:13
ooboiaohm, are you speaking of the ximian propaganda back in the day?Feb 04 13:14
MinceRand "tighter and cleaner" is handwaving.Feb 04 13:14
MinceRgnu tools have more functionality than bsd tools do.Feb 04 13:14
oiaohmI am talking about the time I tried to get KDE and Gnome developers to sit down and develop a common menu format.Feb 04 13:14
oiaohmYes not fun.Feb 04 13:14
oiaohm1 and a half years of bickering.Feb 04 13:15
oobmincer - i reckon you should run bsd for a while. you might like it. i suggest you try it as a desktop, or file/web server, or firewallFeb 04 13:15
oiaohmMost of the time putting out flames on both sides.Feb 04 13:15
oobi also recommend that you have a look at the code. the fact that sun and bsd can both trace their ancestory to the original at&t codebase and has been largely maintained by professional developers, shows.Feb 04 13:15
oiaohmHopefully over time solarias and Linux will become friendly with each other.Feb 04 13:15
MinceRi've already tried to admin a freebsd chrootFeb 04 13:15
MinceRit was not funFeb 04 13:15
MinceRwith its random deviations from the way things are usually done, none of which were documented anywhereFeb 04 13:16
oiaohmFreebsd lot of performance advantages are going by by.Feb 04 13:16
MinceRi eventually gave up trying to install mysql into it and just used one on a debian box.Feb 04 13:16
oiaohmturns out most of Linux trouble comes from spinlocks in the wrong places.Feb 04 13:16
oiaohmTo be correct there is almost no such thing as a correct spinlock.Feb 04 13:16
oiaohmMost cases you should be using ques instead of spinlocks so you don't tie up cpu time.Feb 04 13:17
oiaohmEven freebsd could go a lot faster if they started spinlock removeal.Feb 04 13:17
MinceRhttp://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/Feb 04 13:17
MinceR"Linux 2.6 scales O(1) in all benchmarks."Feb 04 13:18
oiaohm2.6.29 is faster than 2.6.0 used in that benchmark.Feb 04 13:20
oiaohmAnd there are still more speed issues to be removed.Feb 04 13:20
oobokay, i know from my own experience that bsd is superior under real-world workloads. i wouldn't use anything but bsd for a web or file serverFeb 04 13:23
schestowitzoob: " professional developers"? Free work is not professional?Feb 04 13:23
MinceRso from your feelings in a few isolated cases, you proclaim bsd superiorFeb 04 13:24
MinceRhow typicalFeb 04 13:24
oobschestowitz, a lot of the code in the linux kernel is pretty shoddy, in comparison with that in other members of the unix family.Feb 04 13:24
MinceRand the handwaving about ancestryFeb 04 13:24
MinceRsee, this is why i don't argue with *bsd fanboysFeb 04 13:24
oobhaFeb 04 13:25
oiaohmoob look are what is going on with 2.6.29Feb 04 13:25
oobnow i'm a bsd fanboi? you sir, are a dick.Feb 04 13:25
schestowitzoob: AT&T/Bell can program better than IBM/HP/Intel/Oracle/RHT?Feb 04 13:25
MinceRno, sir, YOU are a dick.Feb 04 13:25
oiaohmLot of the Linux code base is cleaning.Feb 04 13:25
oiaohmThat is where they are getting there peformance boosts from at moment.Feb 04 13:25
oobschestowitz, the code is simply better. if you don't believe me, look for yourselfFeb 04 13:26
oiaohm2.6.29 also has a major permissions change.   They all moving into one single struct.Feb 04 13:26
oiaohmBSD guys really need to take note of what was found with the real time guys and network load.Feb 04 13:26
oiaohmRemove spinlocks increase threw put by a insane ammount.Feb 04 13:27
oiaohmSpinlock basically equals cpu wasting valueable processing time waiting for access to something to come up.Feb 04 13:27
oiaohmOn larger scay things that can bey like 200 to 800+ percent waste.Feb 04 13:29
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oiaohm_Hmm connection brokeFeb 04 13:33
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oiaohm_Please do say I Killed the argument.Feb 04 13:39
schestowitzNo.Feb 04 13:59
schestowitzI was just busy myself writing about patents (big post)Feb 04 13:59
oiaohm_http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&20...  << For once he found something greatFeb 04 14:08
oiaohm_A real old document on patents.Feb 04 14:09
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amarsh04schestowitz, just caught up as I'd worked 12 hours each Mon and Tues and house hasn't cooled down yetFeb 04 14:13
schestowitzDid you read what I pinged you about?Feb 04 14:14
amarsh04http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/20... - morgue fullFeb 04 14:14
amarsh04yes, thanksFeb 04 14:14
amarsh04was exchanging emails with Pia Waugh today about OLPC stuffFeb 04 14:14
schestowitzCool.Feb 04 14:15
schestowitz"SA's main morgue at the Forensic Science Office is holding 71 bodies, just one below capacity."Feb 04 14:15
schestowitz"Mr Atkinson says the main morgue is almost full because of a number of possible heat-related deaths and because relatives of the deceased are delaying funerals until the heatwave is over."Feb 04 14:15
schestowitzIt was similar in France about 3 years agoFeb 04 14:16
amarsh04what I can state publicly was that she was involved in OLPC Australia but something that I still don't know about happened and now she is involved in another group called OLPC friendsFeb 04 14:16
amarsh04I remember thatFeb 04 14:16
amarsh04OLPC Australia had a G1G1 scheme for Australians but it wasn't publicised and very few people actually ordered a machine that wayFeb 04 14:17
schestowitzYes, no surpriseFeb 04 14:17
amarsh04I told Pia Waugh that I didn't feel that the .au G1G1 scheme had enough community involvement to workFeb 04 14:18
oiaohm_Catch you around all.Feb 04 14:18
schestowitzOLPC was left with fewer means when it got sued, maybe at the behest of IntelsoftFeb 04 14:18
amarsh04one Adelaide person officially worked on OLPCFeb 04 14:18
*oiaohm_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 04 14:18
schestowitzhttp://www.olpcnews.com/use_cases/community/...Feb 04 14:18
amarsh04there was too much trust betrayed. If you look at the openmoko project and opengraphics project, trust is built up slowly and constantly worked onFeb 04 14:18
schestowitzYes, tessier_ knows that about OpenMokoFeb 04 14:20
amarsh04I've emailed Joel Stanley, the Adelaide OLPC person a couple of times, seems like a good personFeb 04 14:20
amarsh04I've still been working hard on what is happening with the "Integrated Public Number Database" (IPND), the collection of addresses and telephone numbers sent when someone calls 000 for an ambulance fire dept or policFeb 04 14:22
amarsh04s/polic/police/Feb 04 14:22
amarsh04finally spoke to Telstra's acting chief privacy officer on the phone today after one of the lackeys in Telstra's privacy section hung up on meFeb 04 14:23
*Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.20.59) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 04 14:23
Omar87Hi schestowitzFeb 04 14:23
Omar87You might wanna take a look at this: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/02/03/simpl...Feb 04 14:24
MinceRhttp://everything2.com/?node=...Feb 04 14:26
amarsh04I wrote to our Communications Minister saying that I couldn't find a copy of Telstra's Carrier (Telephone company) licence on the Communications Department's web site. His lackey refered me back to the communications regulator, whom I'd asked the same question of 2 weeks ago and haven't heard back yetFeb 04 14:27
schestowitzamarsh04: Telstra seems evil based on what I read.Feb 04 14:28
amarsh04I'm going to call telstra in the morning and say if they can't show me their carrier licence, why should I believe that they're a licenced telcoFeb 04 14:28
schestowitzHey, Omar87 Feb 04 14:28
amarsh04Trujillo and his amigos deservedly cop a lotFeb 04 14:28
amarsh04the last pre-privatisation boss, Mel Ward was a technical able fellow who wanted to build a modern network that did what people wantedFeb 04 14:29
schestowitzOmar87: I wrote about it a few hours agoFeb 04 14:29
schestowitzMicrosoft shoots itself in the foot for profit and for prohibition of competition on the low endFeb 04 14:29
amarsh04my ISP has full debian, kernel.org and soureforge.net mirrors (-:Feb 04 14:30
amarsh04glad to hear that the boycottnovell.com database is back up and running btwFeb 04 14:30
amarsh04one datacentre company has had their website disappear after they had a major outage after main and backup power failedFeb 04 14:32
amarsh04the company will probably lose customers and make out-of-court settlements in exchange for shutting up disgruntled customersFeb 04 14:32
amarsh04best site for ISP/telco information in .au is www.whirlpool.net.au - text only tooFeb 04 14:33
schestowitzamarsh04: we have backups in many placesFeb 04 14:33
schestowitzIt's important to just keep them as up to date as possibleFeb 04 14:33
*Casperin (n=Casperin@1607ds6-vby.0.fullrate.dk) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 04 14:34
amarsh04back soonFeb 04 14:43
*amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 04 14:43
Omar87schestowitz: Can you give me a link to the article you wrote about it?Feb 04 14:46
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-175-21.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 04 14:47
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/0...Feb 04 14:50
schestowitzMicrosoft does EDGI in Jordan as well: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/16/...Feb 04 14:51
amarsh04wedgi?Feb 04 14:51
amarsh04I mentioned to someone at work "In a world without walls or fences, who needs windows and gates?" and they  thought it was quite cleverFeb 04 14:52
schestowitzYes, wedgi tooFeb 04 14:53
schestowitzI think it's an older acronymFeb 04 14:53
schestowitzLet me recheckFeb 04 14:53
schestowitzHere: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/...Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz"We had a presentation on Edgi (aka Wedgi) at MGB, but this document actually takes you through what it entails.Feb 04 14:53
schestowitzBrian had mentioned a school district that this might be an excellent candidate for — are there others? Let’s makeFeb 04 14:53
schestowitzsure we use this new tool in our tool box if we can make it make sense"Feb 04 14:53
schestowitzThey actually call it wedgi... like pulling a wedgi on Linux.Feb 04 14:54
*Casperin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Feb 04 14:54
schestowitzThey have another variation in names.Feb 04 14:54
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-1e-2a-29-69-de.k112.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 04 14:57


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