EVERYTHING is changing so fast, and very much for the better. Discrediting GNU/Linux, for example, has become a tough task. Right now more of the Linux FUD has something to do with patents because on technical merit GNU/Linux has already proven itself and its advocates rebutted disinformation which used to repeat itself, only to be challenged over and over again. Are Linux advocates needed when those who advocate it in massive numbers are Android users showing their phones to friends (the phones have it preinstalled)? Are LUGs needed? Well, that depends.
The FFII and The FFII and AFUL ask consumers affected by operating system bundling or businesses involved in bundling to provide their evidence to the European Competition authority.
"My choice is Debian GNU/Linux", explains FFII Vice president René Mages. "Why have I been compelled to pay and erase Windows 7 at purchase time?"
The European Commission admits it was aware of the difficulties encountered by consumers who want to purchase a PC with a non-Microsoft operating system or without any operating system at all. But they also say they lack evidence suggesting that this is the result of practices in violation of EU competition rules.
"We want to crowd source the collection of evidence", says AFUL's President Laurent Séguin. "If the EU finds anticompetitive agreements that foreclose competition or abuse a dominant position on the relevant market, that would be a magic bullet."""AFUL ask consumers affected by operating system bundling or businesses involved in bundling to provide their evidence to the European Competition authority.
"My choice is Debian GNU/Linux", explains FFII Vice president René Mages. "Why have I been compelled to pay and erase Windows 7 at purchase time?"
The European Commission admits it was aware of the difficulties encountered by consumers who want to purchase a PC with a non-Microsoft operating system or without any operating system at all. But they also say they lack evidence suggesting that this is the result of practices in violation of EU competition rules.
"We want to crowd source the collection of evidence", says AFUL's President Laurent Séguin. "If the EU finds anticompetitive agreements that foreclose competition or abuse a dominant position on the relevant market, that would be a magic bullet."""
FFII and AFUL would like to crowd source evidence-gathering about the difficulty for customers and OEMs in Europe trying to buy a computer or sell one without having to pay for Windows..
| asdfas2wefw | http://aful.org/communiques/share-your-operating-system-bundling-tales-with-the-eu | Apr 16 11:11 |
|---|---|---|
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Share your operating system bundling tales with the EU | AFUL .::. Size~: 25.46 KB | Apr 16 11:11 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Leaked: Evaluation Report on EU Data Retention Directive - http://bit.ly/g2kOqS "valuable tool": well, they would say that (v @whvholst) | Apr 16 11:13 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Kommissionsbericht zur Vorratsdatenspeicherung €« Alexander Alvaro .::. Size~: 52.66 KB | Apr 16 11:13 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: ? does you handle stand for anything or is it just pot luck? | Apr 16 11:14 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] 56% of Peoples' 1st Wikipedia Edits Are Good - http://rww.to/exKNWD #wikipedia: not dead yet #sharing #cognitivesurpus | Apr 16 11:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 56% of Peoples' 1st Wikipedia Edits Are Good .::. Size~: 51.02 KB | Apr 16 11:15 |
| oiaohm | my oiaohm= Ok I am over here mate | Apr 16 11:15 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] New Zealand's 3-strikes rule can go into effect in September - http://bit.ly/g0PfJX aka unseemly haste #nz #3strikes | Apr 16 11:16 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: New Zealand's 3-strikes rule can go into effect in September - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 42.89 KB | Apr 16 11:16 |
| asdfas2wefw | @oiaohm, it is pseudo random | Apr 16 11:17 |
| asdfas2wefw | learning IRC | Apr 16 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Great New Zealand has 3-strikes and Australia has posiablity of being sued for software patents. | Apr 16 11:18 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Company allows GPLv3'ed Javascript libraries to be distributed as EUPL - http://bit.ly/f8DAAM unusual #licensing | Apr 16 11:18 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Company allows GPLv3'ed Javascript libraries to be distributed as EUPL — .::. Size~: 30.83 KB | Apr 16 11:18 |
| oiaohm | So now both countries sux that I can stay in without any major paper work. | Apr 16 11:18 |
| *Judas_PhD has quit (Quit: This is a quitting message) | Apr 16 11:19 | |
| schestowitz | asdfas2wefw: hi, thanks for the links | Apr 16 11:20 |
| schestowitz | I already have a draft with about 4 new links on the subject | Apr 16 11:20 |
| schestowitz | I intend to think about how to approach the issue productively and I will most likely link to leaked OEM dealsc/contracts we have from Comes | Apr 16 11:21 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] RIM Said Weighing Bid to Top #Google Offer for #Nortel Patents - http://bloom.bg/gaUzs7 this could get messy #patents | Apr 16 11:21 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: RIM Said Weighing Bid to Top Google Offer for Nortel Patents - Bloomberg .::. Size~: 55.15 KB | Apr 16 11:21 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: something that is commonly overlooked is the crapware effect. | Apr 16 11:21 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Windows can cost negitive to put on a machine due to the software bundled with it. | Apr 16 11:22 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: and there is no requirement of produces to declare this kick back. | Apr 16 11:22 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Its a issue against custom builders like me. People people have trouble working out why our machines cost a little more. | Apr 16 11:25 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Ie no crap discount. | Apr 16 11:25 |
| asdfas2wefw | I don't see a barrier for the OEMs to having crapware for linux or haiku, it's not even necessary to port it, just include WINE... | Apr 16 11:27 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Does not work. | Apr 16 11:27 |
| asdfas2wefw | ?? | Apr 16 11:28 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] RT @kanarip Thoughts on Kolab and (3rd Party) Application Caching http://tinyurl.com/6en5bym | Apr 16 11:28 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Thoughts on Kolab and (3rd Party) Application Caching | Planet Ergo .::. Size~: 18.83 KB | Apr 16 11:28 |
| oiaohm | crapware providers want the crap embeded in the reinstall disk or system provided to the users. | Apr 16 11:28 |
| asdfas2wefw | . | Apr 16 11:28 |
| asdfas2wefw | embedding crapware can be on Linux re-install disks, too. | Apr 16 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Problem you try getting a set of clean reinstall disks for windows. | Apr 16 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Without buying another copy of windows. | Apr 16 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Linux on the other hand you can just go and download a clean disk and do away with the problem. | Apr 16 11:30 |
| MinceR | they could use a non-gratis gnu/linux distribution :> | Apr 16 11:31 |
| oiaohm | I personally class what as beening done by many OEM's as underhanded and in the same class as malware. Supported by Microsoft. | Apr 16 11:31 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Redhat will send out clean disks if you point out disk has malware added. | Apr 16 11:31 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Same with Suse. | Apr 16 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Basically its not tollerated treatment of users in the Linux world. MinceR | Apr 16 11:32 |
| MinceR | does the crapware author and the average user know this? :> | Apr 16 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Remember with Redhat and Suse you have a support contract. | Apr 16 11:33 |
| oiaohm | So when you have issue with crap you ring them up. | Apr 16 11:33 |
| MinceR | then again, the crapware author themselves could ship a modified distro :> | Apr 16 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Some have tried. | Apr 16 11:33 |
| MinceR | after all, if you can't get a clean installer, the solution is to get a clean installer of somet other OS | Apr 16 11:33 |
| MinceR | s/met/me/ | Apr 16 11:33 |
| oiaohm | eepc classic example MinceR | Apr 16 11:34 |
| MinceR | for example, crapware-laden winblows substituted with fedora | Apr 16 11:34 |
| MinceR | they don't sell eeepcs with gnu/linux here :/ | Apr 16 11:34 |
| oiaohm | clean versions appear very quicky from other sources in the open source world. | Apr 16 11:34 |
| asdfas2wefw | fedora could be pre-loaded with crapware, if that is necessary, using kickstart | Apr 16 11:34 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Problem is user can get a clean copy of fedora no trouble. | Apr 16 11:34 |
| oiaohm | So user complaining about issues who reinstalls with new version bingo crapware problem gone. | Apr 16 11:35 |
| oiaohm | so end of crapware making profit. | Apr 16 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Windows user on the other hand is stuck in hell. | Apr 16 11:35 |
| asdfas2wefw | that's fine. the crapware obligation is only on the bundled package. | Apr 16 11:35 |
| oiaohm | asdfas2wefw: Problem is MS. | Apr 16 11:35 |
| oiaohm | If you have crapware on the bundled package. | Apr 16 11:36 |
| asdfas2wefw | M$ has known since the begging of Windoze that many people wipe the machines | Apr 16 11:36 |
| oiaohm | MS rules only person who can replace is the OEM provider who gave you the crap disks. | Apr 16 11:36 |
| asdfas2wefw | some put on Windoze others put on linux | Apr 16 11:36 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] one step closer to a Police State every day http://is.gd/YWsJcj | Apr 16 11:36 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: TSA Investigates... People Who Complain About TSA - Slashdot .::. Size~: 162.2 KB | Apr 16 11:36 |
| oiaohm | So the only replacement will be another copy of Windows disks with crap. | Apr 16 11:36 |
| schestowitz | There is a proposed solution where the OEM provides images | Apr 16 11:36 |
| oiaohm | So crapware authers are happy. | Apr 16 11:36 |
| schestowitz | Like the browser ballot | Apr 16 11:36 |
| asdfas2wefw | http://www.inquisitr.com/22264/url-shorteners-the-herpes-of-the-web/ | Apr 16 11:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: URL Shorteners – the herpes of the web .::. Size~: 31.76 KB | Apr 16 11:37 |
| schestowitz | You get two CDs/DVDs, you load the one of choice (or another), it copies over the image within like 10 minutes | Apr 16 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Also more and more you are not even getting reinstall disks. | Apr 16 11:37 |
| oiaohm | But just a image on the harddrive. | Apr 16 11:37 |
| schestowitz | I.e. install Linux, lose Windows for good | Apr 16 11:38 |
| schestowitz | Incentive not to install Linux | Apr 16 11:38 |
| schestowitz | Or go back to the shop, pay for someone to install what you already paid for anyway | Apr 16 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Even MS openly addmits the crapware is some of the reasons why people have bad times with Windows provided by OEMs. | Apr 16 11:38 |
| schestowitz | Big swindle, an MEP recently brought it up | Apr 16 11:38 |
| oiaohm | MS own stores don't take altered versions. | Apr 16 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Until they found out no hardware maker was going to supply them. | Apr 16 11:39 |
| MinceR | well, of course, m$ likes to put the blame on others | Apr 16 11:39 |
| oiaohm | At a competitive price. | Apr 16 11:39 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: the blame is valid. | Apr 16 11:39 |
| MinceR | doesn't matter | Apr 16 11:39 |
| MinceR | from their viewpoint :> | Apr 16 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the crapware adds background services dials home | Apr 16 11:39 |
| schestowitz | !google "microsoft blames" | Apr 16 11:40 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | [1] - Microsoft Blames Google for Poor YouTube Support on Windows Phone 7 | http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/04/01/microsoft-blames-google-for-poor-youtube-support-on-windows-phone-7/ | Apr 16 11:40 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | [2] - Microsoft blames Windows Phone 7 data usage issue on unnamed 3rd party | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/01/microsoft-blames-windows-phone-7-data-usage-issue-on-unnamed-3rd-party.ars | Apr 16 11:40 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | [3] - Microsoft blames Apple for Outlook 2011 sync snafu - Computerworld | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9215553/Microsoft_blames_Apple_for_Outlook_2011_sync_snafu | Apr 16 11:40 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | [4] - Microsoft Blames Your Laptop—Not Windows 7—For Battery Issues | http://gizmodo.com/%23!5467175/microsoft-blames-your-laptopnot-windows-7for-battery-issues | Apr 16 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Yet MS is doing nothing to get ride of the crapware | Apr 16 11:40 |
| schestowitz | It's a marriage of convenience | Apr 16 11:40 |
| schestowitz | It keeps BSD and Linux away | Apr 16 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Because MS knows the truth. Without windows being worth negitive Linux on the machine might be provided as the cheep solution. | Apr 16 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft+crapware=love | Apr 16 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | Apr 16 11:41 |
| oiaohm | While Microsoft +crapware love exists | Apr 16 11:41 |
| schestowitz | It's like putting poo on more poo | Apr 16 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Machines without MS is going to be hard. | Apr 16 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Not really | Apr 16 11:41 |
| schestowitz | See tablets | Apr 16 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Heck MS Office starter is one of the crapwares. | Apr 16 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Imagine tablets with Norton AV *LOL* | Apr 16 11:41 |
| MinceR | lol | Apr 16 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Like you want *that* to eat your battery | Apr 16 11:41 |
| oiaohm | If I put MS Office starter on a machine and someone upgrades it I get a min of 50 dollars in my pocket. asdfas2wefw | Apr 16 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Yes that crapware is paying commission to the people who place it there as well. | Apr 16 11:42 |
| oiaohm | So much to place it and so much if the person upgrades it. | Apr 16 11:42 |
| oiaohm | No crapware or at least truthful policy on crapware would make a big difference. | Apr 16 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Norton AV trial is a nice kickback. | Apr 16 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Mind you arm chips are that many times cheaper than x86 that the negitive price of windows does not help | Apr 16 11:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[clacke/@clacke] ââ¢Âº @glynmoody: Why Does The Entertainment Industry Seek To Kill Any Innovation That's Helping It Adapt? - http://bit.ly/h9Hb58 why indeed? | Apr 16 11:46 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] #LasVegas casinos invest their money well, like every other corp http://is.gd/luFUyc in the system, to illegally kill the competition | Apr 16 11:46 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Why Does The Entertainment Industry Seek To Kill Any Innovation That's Helping It Adapt? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 73.27 KB | Apr 16 11:46 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Feds Seize Poker Websites; Founders Indicted | Techdirt .::. Size~: 99.56 KB | Apr 16 11:46 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: actually it would | Apr 16 11:47 |
| schestowitz | oops, oiaohm^ | Apr 16 11:47 |
| schestowitz | What you said would be opposite in reality | Apr 16 11:47 |
| schestowitz | Negative pricing would make the discount account for more of the relative price of the hardware | Apr 16 11:48 |
| schestowitz | Think of $50 discount in $200 machine and same discount on $2000 machien | Apr 16 11:48 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Apr 16 11:48 | |
| oiaohm | No MS crapware works on arm yet. | Apr 16 11:48 |
| oiaohm | We could see something insane with Windows 8 on arm. Machines for nothing. 100 percent crapware funded. schestowitz | Apr 16 11:49 |
| schestowitz | google does the same, at least in plan | Apr 16 11:50 |
| MinceR | so you can get them at no cost and install a real OS on them :> | Apr 16 11:50 |
| schestowitz | But can't be totally free | Apr 16 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Otherwise people would buy and wipe, it's like the razor model | Apr 16 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Norton: we view our software as though it's an OS. We just need to wrap it 'round something to boot up the system and demand the user to pay us using scary dialogues :- | Apr 16 11:51 |
| schestowitz | MAFIAA: the OS is a "content delivery" tool | Apr 16 11:52 |
| schestowitz | OEM: the OS is a kickback opportunity | Apr 16 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Linux: the OS is the heart of a system | Apr 16 11:52 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: yep youview. schestowitz | Apr 16 11:52 |
| oiaohm | youview idea is basically content delivery tool model. | Apr 16 11:53 |
| schestowitz | BSD: the OS is like a prick to wave about | Apr 16 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Problem is linux is now starting to get its crapware models. | Apr 16 11:53 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: the OS is a recipe for world domination, kickstarting Bill's bank account before he does some *real* work towards world domination | Apr 16 11:53 |
| schestowitz | Apple: the OS does not exist. Buy a Mac. Please. No, not please. NOW! | Apr 16 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux world we don't care who you are. | Apr 16 11:54 |
| oiaohm | As long as you use Linux come and join us. | Apr 16 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Now that does bring some problems. | Apr 16 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Great TPM system combin with items like youview | Apr 16 11:54 |
| oiaohm | The device might be open source core but there might be no way in hell ever to alter it. | Apr 16 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Or get anything out of it. | Apr 16 11:55 |
| cubezzz | hmmm, very succinct | Apr 16 11:57 |