Comments

• Francis

  2008-06-12 19:24:21

  Speaking of smear campaigns, Roy:
  
  "OpenSUSE Board Member and Colleagues/Devs Launch Smear Campaign Against Boycott Novell (Updated)"
  
  Interesting that you didn't mention what I did, or link to the story. Why hide the story and what it says, or what others did?
  
  What I did was _post a comment_ in a story that was against this website. Suddenly this is me "launching a smear campaign against Boycott Novell"?
  
  What else did I do? Vote up the story and voted for some other openSUSE stories. Scandal!
  
  It's these wild speculations and completely inaccurate statements that cause people to write and think badly of this website.

• Francis

  2008-06-12 19:25:59

  You're also acting like there are any coordinated attacks (part of your paranoia)? I haven't noticed any colleagues or developers from openSUSE commenting on that story actually. Could you mention any of them?

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:26:08

  Dear fucking idiot, Please realize that this is the doing by people in a community. We're not all part of some company or "Bigger Plot", we just hate you. Your tactics are utter shit. And what's this? Linking to yourself again? Well done, Mr. Egotistical.

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:28:21

  That was pointed at Roy, not the other commentors.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-12 19:32:08

  How quickly you guys stormed into the IRC channel as well. It only took a minutes or two after I had posted this.
  
  To readers: Francis is an OpenSUSE board member. Another OpenSUSE board member has just entered the IRC channel.

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:37:01

  And I say, Big Fucking Deal.

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:37:56

  Also, you misspelled "fun", it's spelled with an F, as in your Writing Class grades.

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:44:48

  Okay, Mr. Shitzforwitz, here's my follow-up. [snip URL with foul language and racism]

• Fucker T. Washington

  2008-06-12 19:47:24

  Follow up: [snip URL with foul language and racism]

• Max Stirner

  2008-06-12 19:54:28

  I told you this would get us into a glorious flame war! ;)
  
  It's reminiscent of the MSOXML debacle, where some of the blogs (you rightly mention R. Weir's) as well as the MSDEV blogzone (or whatever it's called these days) were inundated with pro-ooxml comments from a couple of user ids. As no consumer in his/her right mind would dream of making up fantasy tales such as "there are thousands of working implementations of OOXML" (hAI), one can only presume that these comments must be from a PR agency or actual in-company staff.
  
  Judging by the amount of astroturfing on the web I imagine that MS company policy is for all staff to spend at least 50% of working hours trolling around on blogs posting "Vista features" and "OOXML advantages" in their own MSDEV blogs, or in the comments sections of their adversaries' blogs using various sockpuppets. As corporate "efficiency" requires staff to spend 50% of working hours in pointless meetings making presentations about this or that, my theory would also explain the dire quality of recent MS releases.
  
  http://www.google.com/search?q=hal+ooxml&btnG=Search

• Chris

  2008-06-12 20:21:25

  As someone else said:
  
  I cannot accept many of the claims because of the quality of the evidence used to support them. Quite often, the interpretation of the news that is reported is hyperbolic. Schestowitz then uses these interpretations as further evidence in later articles thus contributing to the amount of low quality evidence.
  
  Roy once more: Take your pills & visit a therapist to get your paranoia fixed. Also STFU until you can base your claim upon facts and not misinformation!
  
  Why? Because I neither see a problem with an openSUSE member posting 3 articles regarding the soon released version on a FOSS site nor with him commenting on an article regarding this site since it is simply true what he said.
  
  FWIW the article / comment in question can be seen here: http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Boycott_Novell_Defenders_of_Freedom_or_Offenders_of_Freedom#comment-3252

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-12 20:30:20

  You can search this site for hAl as well. It's a pseudonymous AstroTurfer on the face of it. We wrote about it before.

• Francis

  2008-06-12 20:51:11

  The story is still very inaccurate as it suggests that Novell and or openSUSE is causing/driving some smear campaign in the article's content, when it seems to just be some individuals (again, this is just a conspiracy theory you have no grounding for) not affiliated with openSUSE or Novell.
  
  The only person there affiliated in some way I noticed was me, and if you consider my recommendations of our FAQ and comments that I disagree with the content on this site as a coordinated "smear campaign" then you are simply misusing those words.
  
  In fact, most of the people annoyed there seem to be annoyed about your comments relating to Ubuntu (and others openSUSE) -- so please edit this in your story to reflect reality. There is no statement from openSUSE or Novell as a community concerning this website.
  
  I suggest you stop your smear campaign against openSUSE, a free and open source project making Linux accessible to more and more people every day, while also contributing significantly to upstream Linux development.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-12 21:14:23

  As pointed out in our IRC channel (which several OpenSUSE devs and Novell employee/s have 'intruded'), the term 'smear campaign' isn't too suitable. I changed this earlier so that Novell and OpenSUSE are not in the heading.

• Chris

  2008-06-12 21:19:22

  Hey Roy,
  
  you have a letter: http://linsux.org/index.php?topic=240.msg979
  
  Also I would like to say that I'm really astonished how it comes that every time someone asks you to be more specific (as in base your claims on facts) instead of vague hand waving & pointing in the general direction (in front of you or behind you) it gets very quiet?

• Francis

  2008-06-12 21:21:33

  As I mentioned in my post, I wasn't referring to the site title but to the body's content, which implies that there is a problem from the openSUSE and/or Novell community, which is unsubstantiated. You have not shown that there is a group effort from either of these projects who care enough to have a coordinated methodology ("new low" comments etc). These are individuals who simply dislike what you do, Roy. Again, no conspiracy theory.
  
  Also, by the use of the term 'intruded' are you implying that they are not welcome in the channel? Are people who disagree with BN not welcome in the channel and to be considered as intruders? Or just people that wish to inform you about misinterpretations or falsities in your stories (as they did in this case)?

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-12 21:32:04

  I know for a fact that we have Novell employees in our IRC channel and I know for a fact (it's visible) that Novell employees also modded up the stories against this Web site. That's just what I know anyway.
  
  It doesn't look too good, Francis, but hey, it's your right to voice yourself. It's also people's right to know that Novell (whether it controls its workforce or not) gives some social networks a 'knock'.

• Francis

  2008-06-12 21:40:51

  So someone who uses openSUSE or is employed by Novell votes up a story that they agree with is them "reaching a new low"? What exactly is morally negative about their actions? You seem to imply that they are throughout your story, or suggest that they have done something surprising.
  
  It's strange that you consider voting up a story that someone agrees with as such an inherently negative thing (I mean, you do it all the time too).

• Chris

  2008-06-12 23:36:49

  Hello Roy,
  
  once again I'm asking you to back up your claims with facts!
  
  You said:
  
  I know for a fact that we have Novell employees in our IRC channel and I know for a fact (it’s visible) that Novell employees also modded up the stories against this Web site. That’s just what I know anyway. [...}
  
  So, reagrding the IRC you might know it from the cloak / ip / host name but what PROOF do you have for your 2nd claim "that Novell employees also modded up the stories against this Web site". Since it is visible it should be easy to point out your sources.
  
  So please backup your claims with some PROOFS not accusations or just STFU & get help.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-12 23:39:06

  Roy: if it's a "fact" that Novell is bumping up those stories (which they did not write nor submit to fsdaily, btw), then where is your evidence?
  
  Or is this one of those "I have inside sources that I can't share but I assure you it's true" bullshit statements?
  
  I should go create an fsdaily account and mod those articles up.
  
  (oh, and just to be clear - I don't work for Novell)

• Balzac

  2008-06-13 00:50:14

  I've seen what Roy is talking about. I have very little doubt that what he's talking about is real because I've seen it before many times. It's easy to become slightly paranoid, given the circumstances, but I have no doubts about the big picture which Roy is conveying.
  
  I think Roy should keep doing what he's doing, but just take a slightly more conservative and deliberate approach. No matter how meticulously he sources his assertions, he's going to have people lie about him because of the culture of the companies he's criticizing.
  
  I've noticed the comment ratings on FSDaily.com are in even groups of uniform agreement. Five negative ratings here, five positive ratings there. I won't be convinced that Microsoft is not making an organized effort to combat their critics with smear campaigns. I know better.
  
  No amount of hot-headed message-board flaming is going to resolve these issues. But the backlash against BoycottNovell.com is actually good for the goals of this site and bad for Microsoft/Novell.
  
  The more attention you call to this site with emotionally-loaded personal attacks, the more attention this site gets and the more weight Roy's voice carries. He's looking more credible to me than before, based on the angry attitudes and the group-think patterns of those who've retaliated against him.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-13 00:58:32

  Too bad it's not Novell or Microsoft digging the posts, eh?
  
  Besides, by your reasoning - Microsoft and Novell's credibility would be at an all-time high due to the group mentality of vile hatred for them.
  
  But alas, you and Roy have flunked out of Logic 101...

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-13 01:20:59

  Balzac: Please follow Roy's link titled "Miguel's threats" and note that Miguel made no threats.
  
  Note also that Roy misled his readers both this time with the link and also the article it refers to, claiming that Miguel knew about the deal long before any of the engineers did (without having any evidence of his claim, whatsoever).
  
  Please also read the comment by Miguel which states:
  
  

  Miguel de Icaza said,
  
  July 12, 2007 at 7:05 pm
  
  The issue that I have with Roy statement is this paragraph, which is a complete fabrication:
  
  “To repeat old facts, the developers were not part of the this decision, with the exception of a few prominent ones such as Miguel de Icaza, who is a VP. It was all done secretly. Jeremy Allison knew about it and he protested against the sneaky, 90th-minute inclusion of patent elements. These elements were not part of the original deal, which had been negotiated for months.”
  
  From: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/07/08/opensuse-image-problem/
  
  As I said on those comments, I learned on the same day that Jeremy Allison learned about it (or perhaps the night before when I was told to go to Waltham).

  
  
  What do you have to say about that?
  
  Where are Miguel's "threats"? They aren't in the article linked.
  
  There's another lie by the (in)famous Roy Schestowitz.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-13 01:21:49

  If anyone is trying to run a smear campaign, it's clearly Roy Schestowitz.

• max stirner

  2008-06-13 03:26:31

  I think it's rather interesting that there's all this opensuse isn't MS/Novell / we're innocent whining going on around here. A good part of this flamewar seems to be based upon this distinction. I could not make out any coherent argument regarding the patent agreement or the other issues discussed on the site. Most of it appears to be personal "you can't spell" type attacks.
  
  There was a massive outcry in the FOSS community at the time of the sellout to MS. R Stallman/Moglen (the guys who made the GNU/Linux OS possible by way of creating a written licensing regime for the free software ethos, not shuttleworth, not linus, and certainly not some suit at the near-bankrupt novell), specifically devised a new version of the GPL to counter this type of damaging contract. I cannot see any of the posts above addressing this issue, which is coincidentally the motivating factor behind the present site. Try a simple google seach if you've forgotten http://www.google.com.br/search?q=microsoft+novell
  
  Boycott novell does not mean boycott opensuse. [Even] some parties in the opensuse community made noises at the time. I suppose you've just got to be lucky to be bought out by the right corporate sponsor at this point. Making a fork wouldn't appear to be desirable, as the dpkg/debian-based distros seem to have the upper hand at the moment. I prefer not to use opensuse for technical merit (or lack thereof). http://www.moreinterop.com

• max stirner

  2008-06-13 03:28:07

  (Cont'd) This site made me feel sick. If you're in doubt, go Debian- they're just about the least perverted organisation I've heard of.
  
  The whole notion of "Defenders of Freedom, or Offenders of Freedom?" just doesn't exist. As someone cited on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=825260&page=2 "What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist". Critical journalism may well offend some, but that is the precise point at stake here. Take a radical opinion, evaluate it, and make up your own mind.
  
  A lot of the "shut up" whiners get their salaries paid by who's being criticised. That's an entirely natural effect. "It's all a goddamn fake. Like Lenin said, look for the person who will benefit" (big lebowski). All I can say is good journalism needs radical voices. And even some purely speculative assertions! Please, Novell/MS/opensuse lovers of all sorts, produce some rational arguments concerning the issues at stake regarding the patent issue. But don't bother discussing the merits of freedom to blog further. It doesn't wash.
  
  Thank you Roy, keep up the good work!

• Michael

  2008-06-13 03:36:26

  At least it's an entertaining read with the morning coffee!
  
  Altthough the opensuse novell-ms faq is strange. It just comes across as quite defensive spin (just an observation). For a project which is independent of Novell, it seems a little strange to be even mentioning it. e.g. I wouldn't expect any other project sponsored by a proprietary company to mention any of their unrelated proprietary dealings. The disclaimer at the bottom of the page should suffice.
  
  And the comment moderation on fs-daily (never heard of it before) looks quite biased - every anti-bn comments are +5 or 6 and every pro-bn comment is -6 or -5 regardless of the reasonableness of the arguments. Both sides include rants (or outright offensive abuse) and reasonable comments, and the ratings just look a bit childish and orchestrated. Trying to keep a minority viewpoint down by bullying will only add more credibility and visibility to it, regardless of its actual worth.
  
  BN is quite a resource with it's timely updates on news and opinion in and around the free software world from around the world. But just like Groklaw - sometimes the editor gets a bit over-zealous and colours the coverage a little too much. However, a news blog without opinion is just a sorted list of headlines, and not so interesting.

• Dylan McCall

  2008-06-13 03:39:44

  I do not work for Novell. I thoroughly despise the way that your web log is missiling excellent contributors such as Miguel

• Dylan McCall

  2008-06-13 03:43:41

  I do not work for Novell. I thoroughly despise the way that your web log is missiling excellent, visionary contributors such as Miguel de Icaza, without whom we would not have fantastic projects like GNOME or Gnumeric. I also was just baffled by your mention of Miguel attacking this site, which linked to a response by you (again, an internal link),
  
  Your activities are poisoning this community. You may claim that the "evil dark forces of Microsoft"

• Dylan McCall

  2008-06-13 03:51:27

  I do not work for Novell. I thoroughly despise the way that your web log is missiling excellent, visionary contributors such as Miguel de Icaza, without whom we would not have fantastic projects like GNOME or Gnumeric. I also was just baffled by your mention of Miguel attacking this site, which linked to a response by you (again, an internal link),
  
  Your activities are poisoning this community. You may claim that the "evil dark forces of Microsoft" are planning it for later, but you are doing it Now.
  
  As one affiliated with no "evil corporations", I join in the recentt crowd asking you to please stop. Thank you.
  
  PS: Sorry if this is a triple post!

• Balzac

  2008-06-13 04:11:49

  Here's a bit of confirmation about the dishonest tactics used during this flame-fest:
  
  http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Boycott_Boycott_Novell?page=1#comment-3303
  
  "to those who think they can get away with multiple accounts: I know who you are! I suggest you stop now so that I don't have to start banning IPs. If you can find some real friends to support your opinion great but don't bring all of your pretend friends along to the debate."

• Victor Soliz

  2008-06-13 04:22:48

  Anyway, recent posts from holy brother Miguel Icaza's blog:
  
  Here Miguel Icaza is promoting the usage of Silverlight a FOSS project that's not a plot from an evil corporation.
  
  Here Icaza brags about windows.forms such a huge contribution from Novell to the free software world. Now we can just drop gtk and qt and code in something like that!
  
  Here Miguel is celibrating ISO's approval of OOXML, OOXML is a fantastic FOSS project that will finally end the monopoly driven by formats like odf.
  
  Now Miguel celebrates a OOXML SDK that can only run in .net, as you know both OOXML and .net are fantastic community projects.
  
  You guys are so right, it is about time this site stopped the smear against brother Miguel, he just wants to spread his fantastic projects.

• Victor Soliz

  2008-06-13 04:26:42

  Anyway, you morons figure that your little campaign will only increase the hits on boycottnovell, right?

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-13 04:28:22

  Chris,
  
  Go to FSadsily and see who voted up the stories at hand. The usernames (or full names) are Novell employees. Some of them anyway. I've been watching Novell for years, so I know a few.
  
  Dan,
  
  I've been asleep for a while and I'm catching up. Just to address your concern regarding de Icaza, you need to see this in context. He wants "public retraction". He commented in this site several times.

• Victor Soliz

  2008-06-13 04:37:09

  Interesting:
  
  http://bigbolshevik.blogs.friendster.com/a_man_and_his_penguin/2008/06/boycott_boycott.html
  
  Rather than anti boycott novell or pro novell or pro reality, it sounds like terribly misleading about autism. Really dude, whoever wrote that crap, please, you are making a fool out of yourself.
  
  A shorter version of that blog post initiating the jihad against this site: - Autism is bad. - Boycottnovell's author probably has autism. - Boycottnovell provides no evidence (although I am providing any evidence regarding this myself, no, not even links to my own blog) - The ubuntu story was wrong. - I love proprietary codecs. - I just fell on the same behavior I am criticizing boycottnovell for.

• Balzac

  2008-06-13 04:43:22

  http://www.microsoft.com/interop/collab/linspire/customer_covenant.mspx
  
  Covenant to Customers Published: July 5, 2007 | Updated: July 5, 2007
  
  Microsoft, on behalf of itself and its Subsidiaries, hereby covenants not to sue a Customer of Linspire for infringement under Microsoft’s Covered Patents... ... However, Client Offerings do not include (i) any portions of products that comprise or include ... GPLv3 Software or Other Excluded Products
  
  http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/patent_agreement.mspx
  
  Patent Cooperation Agreement - Microsoft & Novell Interoperability Collaboration Published: November 2, 2006 | Updated: July 5, 2007
  
  Microsoft, on behalf of itself and its Subsidiaries (collectively “Microsoft”), hereby covenants not to sue Novell’s Customers and Novell’s Subsidiaries’ Customers for infringement under Covered Patents of Microsoft...

• Root

  2008-06-13 08:40:15

  A smear campaign against a website which itself is the classic smear campaign - is such a thing at all possible?

• Francis

  2008-06-13 10:19:07

  Roy please answer the question. What is morally objectionable about someone from a project which you dislike voting up a story that they agree with?
  
  You speak of it and describe it in your article as if you've uncovered something both shocking, surprising, unbelievable and horrendous. What the heck is going on?

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-13 10:39:57

  The thing as a whole was not a case of 'passing by'. You know it, Francis.

• Francis

  2008-06-13 10:47:22

  What is your point? You think the attack is coordinated and they don't really agree with the story but just want to vote it up for fun? Or there is some inherent problem with some people mentioning the story to others, so they discover it, and then vote it up? You know, that's one of the points of these sites -- sharing the links.
  
  You still haven't mentioned a single thing that is morally objectionable, and yet you continue to talk of it as proof of the wickedness of openSUSE and Novell.
  
  You seem to be simply crying "foul play" because there's a story uncovering some of the truths of this website which you obviously don't like.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-13 10:53:11

  No, I simply pointed out that a large group of OpenSUSE people (some Novell employee also) fight back. That's an attempt to discredit us. Fair enough. It's just noted, that's all.

• Francis

  2008-06-13 10:59:37

  The vast majority (i.e. 90% perhaps more) are not affiliated with openSUSE or Novell. They are individuals or members from other projects (i.e. Ubuntu) who dislike the methodology used on this website.
  
  It's also not "just noted". These statements: * Would new accounts be opened merely to fuel this effort and “yes men” engage in a sockpuppet act? * Congratulations, Novell and/or OpenSUSE. You have reached an all-time low. Lower than Miguel de Icaza’a threats
  
  Directly and unequivocally imply that there is something morally blameworthy. Otherwise they wouldn't be at a "new low" and it would be just "fair enough".

• Victor Soliz

  2008-06-13 13:07:37

  The vast majority (i.e. 90% perhaps more)

  You would need a group of more than 3 people in order to get a percentage like that, you probably meant 66.66...%

• Francis

  2008-06-13 13:17:04

  I'm guessing there are about 30 people voting all together (up and down), and I only recognise 3 people there including myself, so 10% is my guess (for that one story). Even from the comments it's suggested that most of the people there are individuals who just dislike this website, its methods, and what it stands for.
  
  Either way, it's pretty clear that under even the most paranoid interpretation 3 people posting on one story who use openSUSE cannot be considered some kind of 'smear campaign' or 'coordinated attack' as Roy would like to believe.

• Chris Lees

  2008-06-13 13:25:42

  lol @ Victor Soliz
  
  Autism *is* bad, that's why it's regarded as an illness. Autistic people aren't bad people, they are just affected by their illness, that's why they're called "sufferers".
  
  If you would like to converse to the autistic man I refer to in my blog post, visit http://members3.boardhost.com/hifive/ and look at the posts made by Steven Wood. The difference is, Mr Wood has a mental illness. The writers for Boycott Novell don't (well, not as far as I know).
  
  Saying that my post was intended to start a "jihad" is both ridiculous and very offensive. I just told people to vote down BN's submissions to FSDaily until they start doing some honest reporting. Also, my blog post came after the Linsux one, check out the dates - I didn't initiate anything. The references are all there, just look for the underlined text. And none of them are just links to my own articles either.
  
  I suggest you re-read my blog post. There are no endorsements of proprietary codecs, unless "The Gstreamer codecs are more reliable than the w32codecs" is somehow saying that proprietary and patended codecs are good. But yeah, re-read the post. It explains everything. Here's a direct link to it in case you've forgotten the URL: http://bigbolshevik.blogs.friendster.com/a_man_and_his_penguin/2008/06/boycott_boycott.html

• max stirner

  2008-06-13 14:05:37

  yawn! on and on Francis? still analysing fsdaily working patterns are we? no work to do?

• Victor Soliz

  2008-06-13 14:12:33

  Yeah, you are right Francis, that only makes you a bunch of losers.

• Lyle Howard Seave

  2008-06-13 14:45:12

  > suggest you stop your smear campaign against openSUSE, a free and >open source project making Linux accessible to more and more people >every day, while also contributing significantly to upstream Linux
  
  Wow, the Novell/Suse nuthuggers are in full force today.
  
  Im a distro slut, I jump from one to another and use them all. EXCEPT three. I think we all know which three those are and why I would never touch them. I despise extortion and those people who would put the community in danger for their own needs.
  
  That's why I think this site is necessary. We often miss one thing or another on the net so the big picture is often diluted. But reading Varghese and Roy reminds us about every little shady dealing that those distros do that put “Non-Compensated Individual Hobbyist Developers” like myself in a precarious situtation. I think Miguel's position on extortion, ODF, Mono, Moonlight and others are well known. I happen to think he is wrong and that ALL his work seems to be in support of Microsoft's strategy. So do many people. While others will be content to suckle at his teat. Fine. Go ahead but dont expect others to tell you that it tastes good. Besides, we can call Miguela a douchebag since he's called people a lot worse ;-)
  
  I respect those who respect me and the community. Those like RH, Ubuntu, Mandriva have all my admiration for how they do their business without putting us all at risk. Those like Novell have all my contempt and if I had time, I would have done a site IDENTICAL to this one. With the same tones of humour, sarcasm and disdain. Its all a question of style. Some people like Seinfeld/Bill Cosby standup and some people like Doug Stanhope/Bill Hicks.
  
  The stench from Novell's disgusting tactics might not bother some, so be it. But I wouldnt trade Roy's work and style for anything in the world. Im sick and tired of the PC mentality where we can maybe, a little... somewhat criticize for a short while but then quickly gloss over. No. We need to be able to follow patterns to see that the Novell extortion deal was NOT a one thing deal. Miguel has shown himself to be constantly working at odds with what is good for FOSS. You might call it smear but that is BS. Just put links to all of his ramblings without any editorial content and you will come to the same conclusion. It is not Roy who makes Novell/Miguel/etc look bad: its their own words and actions.

• max stirner

  2008-06-13 15:16:11

  I

• max stirner

  2008-06-13 15:16:59

  I love Doug Stanhope and especially the late Bill Hicks. SIgh.

• Chris

  2008-06-13 16:34:06

  Hi Victor,
  
  I just wanted you congratulate on your really adorable argumentation!
  
  Since you are probably to retarded to note it: it is meant in an ironic way!

• Max Stirner

  2008-06-13 19:15:21

  @chris orwell's commie list must be understood in its historical context (stalinist fascism). please refer to http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16550
  
  and go easy on the disabled people, it's not considered a valid frame of reference for casual personal slagging off nowadays ("dumb as a spastic" etc)

• Balzac

  2008-06-14 17:11:58

  Dan O'Brian,
  
  I didn't see any threats from Miguel after following that link. But that's not my blog-entry.
  
  But who are you? Surely not Danny O'Brian from the EFF.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-14 17:21:27

  Dan O'Brian seems associated with Mono developers in some way, but I'm just guessing based on what he comments on. As for Miguel, he asked for public retraction, which at least one reader interpreted as an attempt to gag.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-06-14 17:38:57

  And clearly "I’m just guessing based on what he comments on" isn't good enough either. Stop your constant insinuations and smear campaigns, now!
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-14 17:52:15

  No, I am not Danny O'Brien of the EFF. Nor am I associated with Mono.
  
  Miguel asking for a public retraction is not a threat, he was asking that you fix your mistake.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-06-14 17:55:10

  BTW, Balzac, thanks for confirming what I've been saying in that Miguel did not threaten Roy (which is what Roy is claiming).

• The Trailinator

  2008-06-18 09:35:26

  "Wo"
  
  You really are amazing, I bet your writing class grade really is F.
  
  If you've ever read a newspaper or anything you would know that that looks completey fucking retarded, just like your eurotrash name.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-06-18 14:59:53

  Wow.
  
  Now you've really crossed the line, mister. By that new banner against openSUSE 11.0 you're asking for a boycott against a community distribution.
  
  you-are-an-asshole.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-06-18 15:00:36

  Roy.
  
  with the eurotrash name...
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Shane Coyle

  2008-06-18 17:17:32

  Now you’ve really crossed the line, mister. By that new banner against openSUSE 11.0 you’re asking for a boycott against a community distribution.

  Yeah, I gotta say - I've been spending more and more time in Florida and/or offline working on my house, but WTF are 'we' doing with a "1 year to live" OpenSUSE banner?
  
  The OpenSUSE community isn't the enemy, in fact I believe they are being exploited worse than anyone else by the MS-Novell deal, so if anything they are victims.
  
  I've urged them to leave Novell behind, en masse, and move to another domain name not explicitly listed in the covenant, but I don't "hate" them and am always appreciative of their contributions to the greater community.
  
  So, did I miss something here? Novell and Microsoft are the exploitive corporations, not the folks who contribute code and fixes that you and I depend mightily on. We should work to convince them why the patent covenant is bad, and how they can nullify it's negative effects on the greater community. And, like I've said, they can keep the code- it's GPL.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-06-18 17:21:35

  Yes, you're right, Shane. I though about changing that back several hours ago. I'll do this now.

• Bret

  2008-07-10 22:54:07

  In all honesty I don't see what the big deal is here. I like OpenSuse 11.0 well that is the gnome version.