04.18.08

Gemini version available ♊︎

Microsoft Insists on Receiving Payments for OOXML Use, Implementation

Posted in GPL, Microsoft, Open XML, OpenOffice, Patents at 2:54 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

OOXML: open as in “open for negotiation on patent tax tariff”

The SFLC has already informed us all that OOXML is clearly incompatible with the GNU GPL. But Microsoft seems to have just picked itself another smaller target (it’s a pattern that we last mentioned days ago). It insulted the intelligence of the Groklaw crowd with some rude remarks on this issue. Pamela has just responded:

I wrote yesterday that RAND terms can be discriminatory, and that in fact due to the Microsoft OSP, OOXML is discriminatory against the GPL and Open Source licenses, despite being made available under RAND terms. Microsoft’s Jason Matusow responded with a blog entry suggesting I need to bone up on standards and licenses. Why Microsoft folks can’t be polite is a mystery to me, but I persist in responding with decency. He thought it would be helpful to hear from lawyers on the subject. So, I did some research for him, and I find that there are quite a number of lawyers who agree with me.

So here you are, Jason: what is wrong with RAND from folks whose credentials you will respect. They are not radical or extreme, and neither is Groklaw, as you will see. The problem, rather, is that Microsoft is wishing that time would stand still for it, and that the old, proprietary software model were all that there was in the world. However, like the music industry, Microsoft — and standards bodies — now have to cope with the new and modern software development model and licenses that foster and underpin it, not just the old-fashioned, closed, and patent-licensed model that Microsoft represents. And isn’t it you at Microsoft, and your friends at CompTIA, who have told the governments of the world that one business model should not be favored over any other? How much less should a standard?

Since Jason Matusow made it personal, let’s make a thing or two clear. Matusow seems like an unpleasant character [1, 2] for the lies he told in the past and also for defending Microsoft’s ‘aggressive’ (to use the gentlest of words) push for OOXML. It’s hard to understand why Microsoft continues to bully and to corrupt governments with lobbyists at a time when it has so much to lose.

You will probably be pleased (or relived) to hear that OpenOffice.org 3.0 has just been officially switched over to the LGPLv3, which addresses possible software patent issues. This was actually announced over a month ago, but changed have only just been implemented. Those who receive the nightly build will probably see the modifications that have been applied.

On a regular basis we provide developer snapshots to gather feedback on features and fixes that have been implemented on the way to OpenOffice.org 3.0.

OOXML on the trash canGoing back to patents in a standard, OOXML is not the only such problem. Yesterday we exemplified this problem using 4G technology. Something must change and in the mean time OOXML must be shunned by FOSS users and developers alike.

As ugly secrets and truths about ISO begin to come loose, there’s hope that OOXML will get trashed. Without the many corruptions, it would never have stood a chance of joining an existing standard that is a real one (ODF) as well as widely supported by the entire industry, as opposed to a single highly abusive company, a spoiled brat.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

30 Comments

  1. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:19 am

    Gravatar

    In the heading to your article you mention that M$ demands payment for the use of the OOXML-standard. I’m sorry, but I’ve managed to read through your article and couldn’t find any details about how much money for what usage actually is demanded. To put it quite clearly, I think that again you claim something in the sensationalist title that just isn’t true.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:42 am

    Gravatar

    You must not have followed the situation then. In order to use OOXML technology you need to either be licensed or legally covered, e.g. by the OSP. However, the OSP excludes the GPL, by design.

  3. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:46 am

    Gravatar

    What PAYMENTS for OOXM USE do I have to make then? How much money does Microsoft demand from me?

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  4. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:48 am

    Gravatar

    About the GPL; in case you don’t know, OpenOffice 3 which – as you said – is licensed under the GPL v3 will support OOXML.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  5. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:47 am

    Gravatar

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_ambush

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:51 am

    Gravatar

    FUD. This was addressed just two days ago.

    http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/16/ooxml-anger-odf-fud/

  7. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:58 am

    Gravatar

    No FUD: http://www.oooninja.com/2008/03/openofficeorg-30-new-features.html

    And how does this answer my question:
    What PAYMENTS for OOXML USE do I have to make to Microsoft then for my usage of OOXML? How much money does Microsoft demand from me?

    Just point me to the pricetag, go on!

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  8. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:14 am

    Gravatar

    See the article about patent ambush. They can try to extract money out of enterprise some time in the future. Can. Might.

  9. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:26 am

    Gravatar

    That is not very convincing. With OpenOffice implementing it and it being an ISO-standard and all…

    I guess this article’s title is just a tad too sensationalist for what it really contains.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:28 am

    Gravatar

    No, eet. You are just trying hard to heckle, that’s all.

  11. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:36 am

    Gravatar

    You accusing me of being someone you obviously see unqualified to criticize you only indicates that you have run out of arguments in this discussion. Don’t expect me to tread on this path and let me be distracted from my point.

    My point is: You are deliberately writing sensationalist nonsense. This is NOT what I expect from a self-appointed defener of freedom.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known (eet), pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  12. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:39 am

    Gravatar

    So it’s you indeed (in a name outfit). The flagging starts.

  13. cuss said,

    April 18, 2008 at 6:55 am

    Gravatar

    So you have found a way, you think, to escape this discussion. Congratulations, you sad, sad individual.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

  14. Victor Soliz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 7:22 am

    Gravatar

    eet, dude, how could you still be defending MS, that’s unbelievable.

    Of course Microsoft is charging for OOXML implementation, at least it charges Novell. So what other proof do you need?

  15. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 18, 2008 at 7:54 am

    Gravatar

    LOL pwned. Maybe they are coming from Redmond campus…

  16. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 18, 2008 at 7:55 am

    Gravatar

    LOL pwned. Maybe they are coming from Redmond campus…He might be the VP or the Product Manager for MS Office

  17. stevetheFLY said,

    April 18, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Gravatar

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m with you guys on freedom and so on – but this here just made you look kinda bad.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

    stevetheFLY: 80.132.128.196

    eet: 80.132.139.19

  18. Victor Soliz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    Gravatar

    What’s “this” ?

  19. Victor Soliz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    Gravatar

    In all seriousness, I think groklaw’s article is quite strong, and it will be difficult to try to debunk all what’s said there. So I doubt the content of this blog post made the site look bad. You could complaint about the title, but the thing is .. that’s the ultimate reason MS does this.

    MS’ plan.
    =====
    * Charging users for Office, that’s easy. 1st instance in which MS gets money because of OOXML.
    * Charging ‘competitors’ for the contributions MS does to aid “interoperability”, does this with Novell already , I am foreseeing it will happen with apple.
    * Charging developers for trying to implement OOXML: get to accept it, a single dev is not going to implement 6000 pages of poor documentation, so what’s he going to do? He downloads MS’ library for handling OOXML file. Too bad it is .net, so money does go to MS from then.

    In the future MS, is just gonna make sure every document you save in OOXML comes with its set of extensions that will require anybody wanting to open it with his app to pay them royalties. You can’t blame MS for that though since they kinda got the permission to do that from both ECMA and ISO.

  20. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 18, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Gravatar

    @stevetheFLY: please clarify. Is it the flagging you object to? Do you know what type of person we are dealing with here? Following the URLs would be just a start.

  21. ZiggyFish said,

    April 18, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Gravatar

    I’ve got a better response for cuss:

    The history of Microsoft, has always been about the bottom line, making money (everything they can get there hands on, while shitting on the competition at the same time). OpenOffice.org is backed by Sun (if I remember correctly), and is a big player in the Open Source movement (which Microsoft sees as competition). So any payments that would go to Microsoft would have to come from Sun. Which Sun isn’t going to publicly state anytime soon.

    The good news is that if Sun (or any company that is implementing OOXML) does at any point publicly disclose an amount that is not [url=http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease/faqs_isoiec29500.htm]reasonable or discriminatory[/url]. ISO will withdraw the standard.

  22. stevetheFLY said,

    April 19, 2008 at 8:24 am

    Gravatar

    No – i meant you looked like sielncing him. You didn’t reply, you just shuthim up. Looks real, real bad. Like he was right and you didn’t see another way to solve this.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

    stevetheFLY: 80.132.128.196

    eet: 80.132.139.19

  23. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 19, 2008 at 8:46 am

    Gravatar

    What do you know about this guy?

    http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/eet-strommael-gmx-net/

    He has been harassing (personal attacks) not only the editors but also other readers, who found him obnoxious, rude and disruptive. They politely asked for action to be taken. He is the only person ever to have received this type of treatment, having made some very vile remarks comparing us even to Nazis, if I recall correctly (not quite so explicitly though).

  24. Victor Soliz said,

    April 19, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Gravatar

    stevetheFLY: the guy is a troll and imho the site has been too benevolent on him, other blogs just delete posts altogether or don’t approve them.

    Of all the guys that frequently make posts that are against the line of opinion for this blog, only eet is ‘silenced’ like this, the rest are made with respect and don’t have such history of just being lame and trying to divert attention so they aren’t.

  25. mini said,

    April 19, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    Gravatar

    @stevetheFLY
    How would you treat the person you already answered with self-explanatory wikipedia article and one subsequently asks the same question, again and again…

  26. Erdal Özgür said,

    April 20, 2008 at 6:39 am

    Gravatar

    I think the problem as stevethefly has spoken to it is that we don know cuss =eet. Only we have y o u r word. What is it if you just say everybody who disagrees with you is to be this person and then kill him from the discussion. It looks very, very bad to me as a person who questions things.

  27. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 20, 2008 at 8:29 am

    Gravatar

    “cuss” uses the same IP address as “eet” (who nymshifted many times before and admitted this), he uses the same language, the same insults and there are other “cuss” threads (not just here) where it was stated and shown more clearly. It’s him.

  28. Erdal Özgür said,

    April 20, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Gravatar

    That does not satify my uneasines. IP s are dynamic.Coming form a country where free speech is not a tradition I don not sanctionate your behavior here. Good bye.

  29. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 20, 2008 at 9:01 am

    Gravatar

    Feel free to check other conversations with ‘cuss’:

    http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&q=site:boycottnovell.com+cuss

    You’re not seeing the whole story.

    By the way, use of identical addresses by two visitors is possible yet rare, and when both ‘separate’ users (nyms) from the same address are similarly abusive, have the same attitude and vocabulary (clear recurring patterns) and soon use Web proxies to enter the site, well…

  30. Victor Soliz said,

    April 22, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Gravatar

    Erdal Özgür: You sound as if cuss wasn’t being trollish here, I disagree.

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. Links 25/9/2021: Wine 6.18 and Chromium Complier Woes

    Links for the day



  2. [Meme] When the EPO Watches Everything ('Dissidents', Media, Etc.) and Isn't Being Watched by Anybody

    The EPO is taking Europe for a wild ride; Everything is a vehicle for the very same agenda, with nobody left to hold it accountable or ask any tough questions… (even the media is in the EPO’s back pocket or back seat)



  3. Virtual Oversight

    “eMeetings” that simulate an impression of oversight are like ‘ViCo’ to simulate access to justice; will that ever change and will oversight be restored at EPOnia, Europe’s second-largest institution?



  4. The Corporate Coup Against the Soul of the Free Software Community Is Not Over

    The erosion of community role in the development of GNU/Linux is a growing problem; part of the problem is that large corporations target technical and philosophical (perceived) leaders in coordinated smear campaigns, led by media they own



  5. IRC Proceedings: Friday, September 24, 2021

    IRC logs for Friday, September 24, 2021



  6. Links 24/9/2021: GNU Coreutils 9.0, BattlEye GNU/Linux Support

    Links for the day



  7. [Meme] 'Linux' Foundation is Greenwashing Microsoft Again, Misusing the Linux Brand Like Nobody's Business

    Microsoft has weaponised the Linux brand to dub a toxic company like itself (helping notoriously polluting companies and generating lots of waste, both directly and through planned obsolescence, inefficient software, DRM, etc.) as "green"



  8. Richard Stallman to Speak (in Person) in Poland, Dedicate the Talk to Medical Professionals

    Days after his talk in Ukraine Richard Stallman plans to do the same in Poland (just announced)



  9. Links 24/9/2021: 30 Years of Europe’s First Root Name Server, Repairability of Laptops Discussed

    Links for the day



  10. ZDNet Has Failed

    ZDNet is on the decline and its demise appears to have greatly accelerated in recent months; we take a quick look at this month's coverage and explain the conflict of interest (it's PR, not news, and it's far too shallow/blatant to simply overlook)



  11. [Meme] Some People Are Just Above the Law

    A lot of people are still flabbergasted or at least baffled/miffed to discover that some people are in effect above the law; not even Europol and Interpol can apprehend and hold them accountable; that needs to change. Had Benoît Battistelli worked for France Télécom S.A. (not the EPO), would he be arrested? What about António Campinos and his drunk son?



  12. NPR and PBS, Both Funded by Bill Gates, Try to Save Him

    Bill Gates continues to corrupt the media and corrupt social control media (such as Twitter) using his money



  13. The EPO Must Forsake Its Diplomatic Immunity and Quit Pretending It's About Patent Law (or Any Law)

    There's no sign of the EPO actually trying to obey the law and correct the mistakes of the past; to make matters worse, the existing administration adds yet more corruption to an already-massive pile while dismissing any form of oversight



  14. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, September 23, 2021

    IRC logs for Thursday, September 23, 2021



  15. Links 24/9/2021: Ubuntu 21.10 Beta, Istio 1.11.3, and More Milestones for Steam Deck

    Links for the day



  16. [Meme] President Campinos Addresses the Legacy of Battistelli's “Strike Regulations”

    A sequence of four EPO memes about those infamous and unlawful “strike regulations” that Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos have exploited to abuse thousands of workers



  17. [Meme] Bill Gates Keeps Digging Himself Deeper in the Grave Each Time He Speaks

    These sorts of ‘interviews’ with Gates’ own propaganda mills (he also pays Twitter now) aren’t going to improve his image; people aren’t infinitely gullible (Source)



  18. Linux Foundation and Other 'Diploma Mills' Say There's Demand for Their Products in Their New 'Research' (Marketing)

    The so-called ‘Linux’ Foundation (LF), together with edX, are basically marketing their services and products, but this is disguised as 'research' (a false narrative widely parroted by shallow and paid-for media partners of theirs), piggybacking brands like “Linux” and buzzwords like “Open Source” (even when they promote proprietary things, e.g. memorisation of proprietary GUIs)



  19. [Meme] The EPO's Carte Blanche and 'Diplomatic Immunity' Card

    EPO staff is being taken for another ride by António Campinos and his cohorts, whose popularity among staff has likely gone down to sub-zero levels already (even faster than Benoît Battistelli)



  20. As Expected, Minimal Pseudo Compliance From EPO Management, Adding Insult to Injury

    SUEPO Central, the core of the staff union of EPO staff (almost 7,000 workers at the EPO, most of whom are SUEPO members), has strong words about the EPO's attitude and stance, which is perhaps unsurprising but still extremely disappointing



  21. Links 23/9/2021: PostgreSQL 14 RC 1 and MidnightBSD 2.1

    Links for the day



  22. Links 23/9/2021: More UPC PR Stunts and IBM (Poettering) TPM for Linux

    Links for the day



  23. The EPO is on the Run (Escaping Negative Press Coverage)

    Aside from tens of millions of euros granted to media and academia (to keep them complicit or silent about EPO corruption, which also implicates the EU) there’s also SLAPP and threats against staff representatives; but Members of the European Parliament are becoming interested in what’s really going on in Europe’s second-largest institution, so this utter waste of EPO money (manipulating the press and gaming universities’ research) might in itself become a scandal sooner or later



  24. [Meme] Lowering the Standards...

    It's time for another round of fluff at the EPO, this time without even travelling (PR-over-'ViCo')



  25. Gemini HTTP/HTML/Web Proxies and Self-Hosting Your Own Proxy

    Gemini protocol (gemini://) and the fast-growing Geminispace (expected to exceed 2,000 known capsules by year’s end, in effect quadrupling in a single year!) are possible to access using Web browsers, at least for those who do not have Gemini clients/browsers just yet; today we examine and give an outline of the options



  26. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, September 22, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, September 22, 2021



  27. Links 23/9/2021: GNU Parallel 20210922, Moroccan Propaganda From EPO

    Links for the day



  28. Links 22/9/2021: Google 'Upstream First' in Linux and New Maui Report

    Links for the day



  29. Links 22/9/2021: Mesa 21.2.2, GNOME 41 Released

    Links for the day



  30. Socially- or Corporate- or Centrally-Controlled Surveillance, Censorship and Throttling is Not Media

    The 'social control media' situation is getting out of hand; in YouTube, for example, there's a broad revolt against strict editorial control by Google and in Twitter it seems like ordinary users aren't shown so much to people who actually "follow" them


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts