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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 12th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:11 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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oiaohm Can you not get the split. Mar 12 12:25
jose split? Mar 12 12:26
oiaohm ScanTwain is a front end.  Ie no drivers. Mar 12 12:26
oiaohm So by it self cannot scan anything. Mar 12 12:26
jose i think i’m following Mar 12 12:26
jose now how would i get the drivers and where would i find mono Mar 12 12:26
oiaohm The mono dependancy is in the driver. Mar 12 12:26
jose and why can’t i see this information in the press release Mar 12 12:27
jose the press release says mono needed for *gui* Mar 12 12:27
oiaohm Gui of the driver. Mar 12 12:27
jose how would i access that Mar 12 12:27
jose where would i find those files Mar 12 12:27
oiaohm Someone cut and pasted from driver information page into a press release. Mar 12 12:27
oiaohm Without double checking by the looks of it. Mar 12 12:28
jose do you know where i would find the drivers? Mar 12 12:28
jose ok, i’m heading over to www.sane-project.org to look for those drivers Mar 12 12:29
oiaohm No there not a sane-project.org Mar 12 12:30
oiaohm I am wonder where there drivers are hidden my self. Mar 12 12:30
jose i couldn’t find it there either Mar 12 12:30
jose a reason this grabbed my attention was that microsoft has paid people to use silverlight Mar 12 12:31
jose market uptake is a serious issue in some circles Mar 12 12:32
oiaohm http://graphics.kodak.com/docimagin… Mar 12 12:32
oiaohm Yep universal .net driver. Mar 12 12:32
jose ok that seems to be it Mar 12 12:33
oiaohm Now that adds a new wrinkle to the .net problem. Mar 12 12:34
jose let me verify this then.. there is the driver gui and the scantwain gui.. one requires mono and the other qt Mar 12 12:35
oiaohm Yep Mar 12 12:35
oiaohm Even if you are using sane with the driver you would still annoying need mono to use the driver. Mar 12 12:36
jose it’s a binary Mar 12 12:36
jose without thinking i was assuming i’d find some source Mar 12 12:37
jose stupid me Mar 12 12:37
jose well, i’m actually guessing there is no source.. Mar 12 12:37
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_Hicham_ Hi All! Mar 12 12:38
oiaohm Yep jose its a closed source driver. Mar 12 12:38
jose btw, what is the flag to peek inside an rpm? Mar 12 12:39
jose -q? Mar 12 12:40
jose nope Mar 12 12:40
jose -q -l? Mar 12 12:40
jose nope Mar 12 12:41
oiaohm Hmm its two halfs. Mar 12 12:46
oiaohm One that is .net the gui of the driver. Mar 12 12:47
oiaohm one that is the driver it self that is a native elf. Mar 12 12:47
jose dotnet files have their own format or are they encoded into the elf? Mar 12 12:50
jose for example, java has .class files Mar 12 12:51
jose you run these as data to the jvm Mar 12 12:51
jose but if you compile, i presume you would get an elf that would set everything up and run the class file Mar 12 12:52
jose i imagine dotnet is possibly similar Mar 12 12:52
oiaohm dotnet files are windows pe stubs with .net bytecode after it. Mar 12 12:52
jose well.. in terms of linux Mar 12 12:52
oiaohm ,net binarys are the same on all platforms. Mar 12 12:52
oiaohm Yes eww Mar 12 12:53
jose is pe the exec file format on windows? Mar 12 12:53
oiaohm Yep Mar 12 12:53
jose so wouldn’t you need something that linux loader would understand Mar 12 12:53
oiaohm mono windowsstubed.net.exe Mar 12 12:53
oiaohm Linux kernel does not load .net executables natively. Mar 12 12:54
oiaohm Neiher does windows. Mar 12 12:54
jose ie, dotnet binary needs the interface .. fine Mar 12 12:54
jose i thought when you said binaries you meant it just runs as is on linux Mar 12 12:55
jose understand now Mar 12 12:55
_Hicham_ what is that program? Mar 12 12:55
jose kodak scanner driver Mar 12 12:55
_Hicham_ isnt available natively in Linux? Mar 12 12:56
oiaohm It does have 1 bit that is a native Linux elf. Mar 12 12:56
jose http://graphics.kodak.com/docimaging/US/e… Mar 12 12:56
oiaohm The driver is half .net half native _Hicham_ Mar 12 12:56
jose http://www.designtaxi.com/ne… Mar 12 12:56
oiaohm A real ugly driver. Mar 12 12:56
_Hicham_ wow Mar 12 12:57
_Hicham_ if it was entirely in .NET, you could have used mono Mar 12 12:57
_Hicham_ even though it is not appreciated in here Mar 12 12:57
oiaohm I don’t think the driver could have been created fully in .net and worked to twain 2.0 standard. Mar 12 12:58
_Hicham_ why? Mar 12 12:58
oiaohm C calling interface to a library. Mar 12 12:58
jose thanks for helping to clarify that up oiaohm Mar 12 12:59
jose i’ll be going soon then Mar 12 12:59
oiaohm Little bit hard to do in .net build a lib that other programs can call _Hicham_ Mar 12 12:59
_Hicham_ well, you can link to .NET libraries as you would do with any native library Mar 12 13:00
_Hicham_ plus, .NET library are managed Mar 12 13:00
oiaohm Linux native program calling .net libraries without any fance interface. Mar 12 13:00
oiaohm fancy interface Mar 12 13:00
jose schestowitz.. it was a false alarm Mar 12 13:00
oiaohm Not that simple _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:00
_Hicham_ well, what do the mono assemblies do in here? Mar 12 13:01
_Hicham_ aren’t they created for that? Mar 12 13:01
oiaohm Nop Mar 12 13:01
_Hicham_ what are they created for then? Mar 12 13:01
oiaohm Not to provide a pure C style interface to talk to. Mar 12 13:01
oiaohm They provide preoptimised _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:01
oiaohm gcc cil project might be able to do it in time.  Or if mono aot has major alterations maybe. Mar 12 13:02
_Hicham_ is there a gcc cil project? Mar 12 13:02
oiaohm Yes there is _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:02
_Hicham_ who is sponsoring it? Mar 12 13:03
oiaohm No one is a person pet project. Mar 12 13:03
_Hicham_ what would be the profit? Mar 12 13:03
oiaohm http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cli.html Mar 12 13:04
oiaohm Not all things have profit _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:04
oiaohm Some are can it be done. Mar 12 13:04
oiaohm It can open up the way for all language known by gcc to be built for .net Mar 12 13:05
oiaohm Also open up the way to building native programs from .net objects. Mar 12 13:05
_Hicham_ but, would M$ allow that? Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_ MS allowed gcc because it wasn’t a threat to MSVC Mar 12 13:06
oiaohm Really MSVC is not the best complier out there. Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_ but I think that this era is over Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_ oiaohm : it is the most used Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_ no? Mar 12 13:07
oiaohm MS has not taken down the portland group complier. Mar 12 13:07
oiaohm From a techical point of view it is the best. Mar 12 13:07
_Hicham_ but MSVC is most used : that is a fact Mar 12 13:07
_Hicham_ it is used now even on Open Source projects Mar 12 13:07
_Hicham_ go look in sourceforge Mar 12 13:07
oiaohm Portland group complier takes a single thread program and makes it multi threaded. Mar 12 13:07
oiaohm You really want to make some open source programs take advantage of multi core you can gues what you would be using. Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_ Visual Studio Mar 12 13:08
oiaohm Nop Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_ or ICC Mar 12 13:08
oiaohm ICC does not have it either. Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_ ICC is the best out there Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_ ? Mar 12 13:08
oiaohm nop Mar 12 13:08
oiaohm ICC does not contain auto code processing like Portland group. Mar 12 13:09
_Hicham_ is Portland group compiler available for all platforms? Mar 12 13:09
oiaohm Gcc is only starting to develop the means to match Portland. Mar 12 13:09
oiaohm Yes Portland group complier is available for all platforms. Mar 12 13:09
oiaohm Ever wondered why MSVC ended up free. Mar 12 13:10
oiaohm Its no longer a sellable product against something like portland group complier. Mar 12 13:10
_Hicham_ because there was huge competitors, and free alternatives Mar 12 13:10
oiaohm Yes portland group complier still sells for money. Mar 12 13:10
oiaohm High performance systems will pay for good compliers. Mar 12 13:11
_Hicham_ MSVC is not free Mar 12 13:11
oiaohm Really.  Its included for nothing in the windows sdk’s. Mar 12 13:12
oiaohm Basically as a complier if you cannot aford better. Mar 12 13:12
_Hicham_ the Express versions are free Mar 12 13:12
_Hicham_ Standard and Professional are not Mar 12 13:13
oiaohm SDK versions are also free _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:13
oiaohm That are the same as what comes in Standrad. Mar 12 13:13
_Hicham_ no Mar 12 13:13
oiaohm You are paying for the IDE not the complier. Mar 12 13:13
_Hicham_ they don’t include ATL and MFC Mar 12 13:13
oiaohm ATL is on sourceforge. Mar 12 13:14
oiaohm Yes free. Mar 12 13:14
_Hicham_ is WTL Mar 12 13:14
_Hicham_ not ATL Mar 12 13:14
_Hicham_ are u sure? Mar 12 13:14
oiaohm Opps mixed WTL and ATL up. Mar 12 13:14
oiaohm ATL and MFC can be got threw mainsoft. Mar 12 13:14
oiaohm Independant to the complier. Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_ if u pay Mar 12 13:15
oiaohm They are not the complier. Mar 12 13:15
oiaohm Its like saying QT is part of gcc. Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_ i know they are not the compiler Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_ but they are still essential Mar 12 13:15
oiaohm Not really. Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_ all projects use MFC Mar 12 13:15
oiaohm If you are building QT projects like me MFC is just a waste of space. Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_ not all people work with QT Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_ a lot of programmers still prefer MFC Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_ and a lot of legacy programs are in MFC Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_ and the most evident way to port them is wxWidgets Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_ but it is not that easy Mar 12 13:17
oiaohm Exaclty. Mar 12 13:17
oiaohm It simple not to have the headache in the first place and just code straight in QT and be done with it. Mar 12 13:17
_Hicham_ but what about legacy programs? Mar 12 13:17
oiaohm MFC is not what you call the greatest performing thing. Mar 12 13:17
_Hicham_ it is not about performance Mar 12 13:18
oiaohm My legacy programs are from Posix world.  So its not a issue to me. Mar 12 13:18
oiaohm Not all coders need MFC. Mar 12 13:18
_Hicham_ Qt has created a migration framework for MFC programs Mar 12 13:18
oiaohm So does mainsoft. Mar 12 13:18
_Hicham_ it is a good job, but still a long process Mar 12 13:19
_Hicham_ mainsoft port them natively, no? Mar 12 13:19
oiaohm Reason why its advantagece to anyone working cross platform to buy MFC threw mainsoft. Mar 12 13:19
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oiaohm You get natively ported MFC on Linux as well as MFC support on windows. Mar 12 13:19
oiaohm Basically there is very little reason to be buying MSVC for anything other that that you like the IDE. Mar 12 13:20
_Hicham_ is there any equivalent IDE? Mar 12 13:20
oiaohm I am more use to kdevelop than MSVC. Mar 12 13:20
_Hicham_ and in ur opinion kdevelop is better than MSVC? Mar 12 13:21
oiaohm Ok kdevelop does not have all the features of MS.  But I don’t code the same way as MS IDE works. Mar 12 13:21
oiaohm Its not always being better _Hicham_ its more if it sutes your style. Mar 12 13:22
_Hicham_ I know it is not about being better, but there is a style for each platform Mar 12 13:23
_Hicham_ and MSVC is Window’s style Mar 12 13:23
oiaohm My own kdevelop has some of my own personal addons for code auditing for secuirty flaws. Mar 12 13:23
oiaohm That I would have to rebuild if I went to MSVS Mar 12 13:24
oiaohm Intergrated valgrind is also useful.   Its very hard to find something like valgrind for windows. Mar 12 13:24
_Hicham_ isn’t it available for windows also? Mar 12 13:24
_Hicham_ valgrind is cross platform, no? Mar 12 13:25
oiaohm Everywhere bar windows. Mar 12 13:25
oiaohm To run it on a windows binary you have to run the windows binary inside wine _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:26
oiaohm Yes on Linux. Mar 12 13:26
_Hicham_ what about using Cygwin to compile it on Windows? Mar 12 13:27
oiaohm Does not work. Mar 12 13:27
oiaohm Its depending on lower level stuff in the OS that don’t line up. Mar 12 13:27
_Hicham_ Cygwin is always in progress Mar 12 13:28
oiaohm Cygwin techincally can never do it. Mar 12 13:29
oiaohm Will not matter how much it improves. Mar 12 13:29
_Hicham_ ok, i see what u mean Mar 12 13:30
_Hicham_ i didn’t work with kdevelop a lot Mar 12 13:30
_Hicham_ to be honest with you, i found kde unstable the time i used it Mar 12 13:30
oiaohm What distribution. Mar 12 13:31
oiaohm What version of kde as well. Mar 12 13:31
oiaohm kde 3.5 under debian is highly stable. Mar 12 13:31
oiaohm If you where trying Ubuntu or Fedora I could understand stablity problems. Mar 12 13:32
_Hicham_ i think i used it under mandrake 9.1 Mar 12 13:32
_Hicham_ do u think Ubuntu is less stable? Mar 12 13:32
oiaohm mandrake is about the same. Mar 12 13:32
oiaohm Both include more proto features. Mar 12 13:33
oiaohm Ubuntu pulseaudio on by default causes KDE some issues. Mar 12 13:33
oiaohm to be correct pulseaudio causes a lot of programs some issues. Mar 12 13:34
_Hicham_ it is not easy to abstrat all sound interfaces Mar 12 13:34
_Hicham_ but we still need a unique sound system Mar 12 13:34
_Hicham_ a modern and innovative one Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_ like direct sound Mar 12 13:35
oiaohm What pulseaudio is doing will disappear in time. Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_ there should be a unified framework Mar 12 13:35
oiaohm Its simply not compadible with what the Linux kernel will be in a few years. Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_ that way game makers will develop for linux Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_ then there should an alternative Mar 12 13:36
_Hicham_ there must be sthg like direct sound model Mar 12 13:36
oiaohm _Hicham_: What alternative is needed. Mar 12 13:36
oiaohm Alsa is there. Mar 12 13:36
_Hicham_ not the only one Mar 12 13:36
oiaohm Needs work.  pulseaudio is basically a destraction. Mar 12 13:36
oiaohm cgroups feature that is being embeded in Linux will basically snap pulseaudio. Mar 12 13:37
oiaohm Pulseaudio stores information inside a server that should be connected to the process itself. Mar 12 13:37
oiaohm Reason why Pulseaudio will die its design is wrong. Mar 12 13:38
oiaohm Anyone who read open source sound history would know that all sound servers in time die. Mar 12 13:39
_Hicham_ just a temporary solution Mar 12 13:39
oiaohm A bad temporay solution. Mar 12 13:39
_Hicham_ what do u suggest? Mar 12 13:39
oiaohm cgroups are about resource control. Mar 12 13:39
oiaohm Audio is just another resource to control. Mar 12 13:40
_Hicham_ yes, that is it, it is a just a resource Mar 12 13:40
oiaohm cgroups are kernel level.   Connect information to processes.  So when a process is indivudually suspend when restored its state can remain. Mar 12 13:40
_Hicham_ what do u think of direct sound? Mar 12 13:41
oiaohm cgroups all ready control cpu mem network and process tables.  Work is on way for devices and video. Mar 12 13:41
oiaohm direct sound could be done way better. Mar 12 13:42
oiaohm That is the other problem with pulseaudio its not in a location where it can have any effect on how much cpu time its feeder applications get. Mar 12 13:43
_Hicham_ i think that there should be the same thing in linux Mar 12 13:43
_Hicham_ a kind of unified framework for audio and video Mar 12 13:43
oiaohm What is the most important thing to make that work _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:44
oiaohm Its so simple.  CPU time where it needed. Mar 12 13:44
oiaohm The things that control the allocations of cpu time is inside the kernel itself. Mar 12 13:44
oiaohm The complete idea of sound server solution is not going to work. Mar 12 13:45
_Hicham_ and so, sound in linux will always be a mess Mar 12 13:46
oiaohm Video in Linux is already moving its management kernel mode. Mar 12 13:46
oiaohm I would not say always be a mess. Mar 12 13:47
oiaohm People said that about X11 too. Mar 12 13:47
oiaohm Many years latter it getting cleaned up as common sence as taken over. Mar 12 13:47
oiaohm Its more how long before a common sence event happens to the audio system. Mar 12 13:48
_Hicham_ it won’t Mar 12 13:49
_Hicham_ there must be some central authority Mar 12 13:49
oiaohm Same was said about X11 _Hicham_ Mar 12 13:49
_Hicham_ or torvalds himself should decide Mar 12 13:49
oiaohm Its exacty like X11 Mar 12 13:49
oiaohm there is a central authority just completely disreguared. Mar 12 13:50
oiaohm Lot of Linux problems are not unique. Mar 12 13:51
_Hicham_ I prefer a central authority with a bad model, than a bunch of good stuff here and there Mar 12 13:51
_Hicham_ at least we can develop for it Mar 12 13:52
oiaohm Look at X11 with the Toolkits. Mar 12 13:52
_Hicham_ brb Mar 12 13:52
oiaohm Instead of fixing X11 as they should have.  People were patching toolkits. Mar 12 13:52
oiaohm Sound Servers are the same thing. Mar 12 13:52
oiaohm Sooner or later someone will wake up that is impossable to fix in userspace and start work on kernel space and the interfaces between kernel space and userspace as they should have been all along. Mar 12 13:53
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_Hicham_ is anyone here? Mar 12 14:21
schestowitz Yes, I am Mar 12 14:22
schestowitz Just making Bn posts ATM Mar 12 14:22
_Hicham_ what is it about? Mar 12 14:22
schestowitz The current one about Kodak Mar 12 14:24
schestowitz I’ll post it now, see if you can find error Mar 12 14:24
schestowitz OK, posted now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03… Mar 12 14:26
schestowitz See what you think. Mar 12 14:26
_Hicham_ jose was just talking about that Mar 12 14:30
_Hicham_ the post is great Mar 12 14:40
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schestowitz _Hicham_: thanks, I had a funny feeling about that post Mar 12 14:43
Eruaran eeks Mar 12 14:44
schestowitz I never rephrase sentences, I just write the thoughts down quickly, then proofread. Mar 12 14:44
Eruaran my network is all over the place Mar 12 14:44
schestowitz Eruaran: new movel from ASUS (eeK) Mar 12 14:44
schestowitz EEK PC… when EEE gets XP. Mar 12 14:44
schestowitz Like “WOW”, Vista sure sucks. Mar 12 14:45
schestowitz Or “EEK”, my netbooks slowed down considerably with Windows Mar 12 14:45
Eruaran As Bond said in Casino Royale Mar 12 14:46
Eruaran “yes… considerably” Mar 12 14:46
Eruaran My Kubuntu desktop is rather lively with the notifications Mar 12 14:47
Eruaran not in an annoying way though Mar 12 14:47
Eruaran UAC is annoying Mar 12 14:48
Eruaran KDE 4.2′s growl like notifications are rather pleasant since they don’t get in your way Mar 12 14:49
Eruaran Microsoft copying everything Apple does is so pathetically sad Mar 12 15:10
Eruaran Apple could open a retail store and Microsoft would copy them Mar 12 15:11
Eruaran oh… wait… Mar 12 15:11
schestowitz Yes, exactly Mar 12 15:14
schestowitz Becuase Microsoft wants (and needs) to sell h/w Mar 12 15:14
schestowitz The peoblem is this Mar 12 15:14
schestowitz Shall they choose this path they alienate OEM Mar 12 15:15
schestowitz *OEMs Mar 12 15:15
schestowitz who then embrace more of Linux, obviously Mar 12 15:15
schestowitz Same problem with the rumoured Microsoft Phone Mar 12 15:15
twitter ha ha, BBC goes through the 123 of getting their very own Winblows botnet http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/program… Mar 12 15:30
schestowitz Yes, I saw that Mar 12 15:32
schestowitz Where did you find it? Mar 12 15:32
schestowitz Cause I was gonna slam the MSBBC for it Mar 12 15:32
schestowitz It’s it’s widespread by now (criticism), then it ain’t worth repeating. Mar 12 15:32
twitter Slashdot Mar 12 15:37
twitter http://it.slashdot.org/articl… Mar 12 15:37
schestowitz Ah, OK Mar 12 15:38
schestowitz let’s see how they present it Mar 12 15:38
schestowitz LOL Mar 12 15:39
schestowitz +1 to /. this time (good headline Mar 12 15:39
schestowitz http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_te… ( Lawmakers: NASA watchdog lacks bite, needs to go ) Mar 12 15:53
twitter GOD, Slashdot just front paged this idiot article http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cont… Mar 12 15:55
schestowitz Yuck! Wintel press cited Net Applications (sponsored to lie by Microsoft and Apple) Mar 12 15:56
schestowitz They also cite the shills from gartner Mar 12 15:57
schestowitz There should really be some sort of overhaul. Microsoft is spreading its money to poison all sorts of talking heads Mar 12 15:57
schestowitz “Ray Valdes, research director at Gartner” Mar 12 15:58
schestowitz How many contracts are these people doing with Microsoft? Mar 12 15:58
schestowitz :-) How many with Mozilla? (Haha. None.) Mar 12 15:58
schestowitz BT freezes wages for 100,000 <  http://www.theregister.co.u… Mar 12 16:03
schestowitz Watch this nonsense  about ‘netbooks’ not being secure (as though security is a hardware issue): http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9… Mar 12 16:37
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schestowitz is OLPC dumping WIndows for GNU/Linux :-) http://www.pcworld.com/article/16111… Mar 12 16:39
MinceR or for the undead windows ce Mar 12 16:41
MinceR or negroponte just wants to have his pockets stuffed again Mar 12 16:41
schestowitz Dell Cuts Staff Worldwide < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161114/… > Mar 12 16:43
schestowitz /s/undead/dying/ ? Mar 12 16:44
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schestowitz Sony is suing because this ad contains its controller: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h… Mar 12 17:10
schestowitz The BBC may indeed be breaking the law: http://www.theregister.co.uk/… Mar 12 17:15
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schestowitz Microsoft leaves Office exposed to crackers for another month < http://www.heise.de/english/n… > No hurry, Microsoft. You do well for FOSS. Mar 12 17:22
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schestowitz Jose_X asks: “Does anyone know if Intel feeds Microsoft undocumented optimized opcodes for their chips? “ Mar 12 17:32
twitter OLPC goes ARM … about time. Mar 12 17:47
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twitter who cares about opcodes when ACPI lies to you and cripples basic hardware function? Mar 12 17:49
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schestowitz I’m doing a quick post Mar 12 17:50
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schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/… Mar 12 17:54
schestowitz New post. Some background about OLPC there too. Mar 12 17:55
twitter cool Mar 12 17:58
*schestowitz writes about MSBBC quickly Mar 12 18:03
Balrog_ the situation with rambus …. not too good Mar 12 18:11
schestowitz More brand-jacking: Open Source Ecology < http://journalwatch.conservationmagazin… > Mar 12 18:13
schestowitz Balrog_: I have a post coming about it Mar 12 18:13
schestowitz Any news you’ve seen? Mar 12 18:13
Balrog_ http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/20… Mar 12 18:13
schestowitz Other than the fee collection? Mar 12 18:13
schestowitz Oh that Mar 12 18:13
Balrog_ not really yet Mar 12 18:13
schestowitz Yes, I got it Mar 12 18:13
Balrog_ well they’re still going to appeal Mar 12 18:14
twitter more cooperation between M$, Cisco and VMware http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/031109… Mar 12 18:14
schestowitz Thanks, i’ll add this as a second cite Mar 12 18:14
schestowitz I had this for 2 days: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire… Mar 12 18:14
Balrog_ heh … parallels for mac is better than vmware Mar 12 18:14
Balrog_ even vbox is better than vmware on mac Mar 12 18:15
schestowitz vmware is msftied Mar 12 18:15
Balrog_ vmware (mac) really got slow with 2.0 Mar 12 18:15
schestowitz For Win or Linux? Mar 12 18:16
schestowitz What can a Mac do that other platforms can’t? Mar 12 18:16
Balrog_ it has cocoa Mar 12 18:16
Balrog_ that’s the main difference Mar 12 18:16
Balrog_ Cocoa for Linux (GNUStep) is very experimental Mar 12 18:17
Balrog_ and few people are working on it. :( Mar 12 18:17
Balrog_ And I refuse to use Windows…..so that leaves me with Linux and Mac, both of which I use Mar 12 18:17
schestowitz What’s the appeal of cocoa? Mar 12 18:18
Balrog_ much nicer than X11; easier to work with (IMO) Mar 12 18:18
schestowitz There was a guy back in 2002 (IIRC) called Robert Eisenberg who worked on a Linux port Mar 12 18:18
Balrog_ GNUStep is the linux port Mar 12 18:19
Balrog_ http://www.gnu.org/software/gnustep/ Mar 12 18:19
schestowitz He told me he tried to be rewarded with a Mac for the project, so I remember. Mar 12 18:19
schestowitz x11 is fine Mar 12 18:19
Balrog_ (Cocoa came from NEXTSTEP) Mar 12 18:19
schestowitz I know. Mar 12 18:19
Balrog_ it’s fine but I feel that X11 is bloated and all Mar 12 18:19
schestowitz In terms of visual, x is still fantastic Mar 12 18:19
schestowitz I absolutely love x forwarding too Mar 12 18:20
schestowitz Windows can’t bear that Mar 12 18:20
schestowitz *beat Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ yeah that’s probably one of the better things Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ X-forwarding Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ though my networks aren’t fast enough for it Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ :/ Mar 12 18:20
schestowitz A lot of stuff I’m doing via ssh Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ I use terminal, text-only Mar 12 18:20
schestowitz I use resources rather than ‘computer’ Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_ ? Mar 12 18:21
Balrog_ also Mar 12 18:21
Balrog_ I like the mach kernel Mar 12 18:21
Balrog_ and the way the OS X system is put together (meaning application packages, frameworks, etc) Mar 12 18:21
balzac I had some new thoughts re Madoff Mar 12 18:21
balzac Who in teh SEC was aiding and abetting his fraud? Mar 12 18:22
balzac Aren’t public officials held to a higher standard than the rest of us? Mar 12 18:22
Balrog_ by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!? Mar 12 18:23
balzac The SEC was given the power and responsibility to regulate the finance industry and they didn’t. Nevermind the fact that Madoff was influencing them. Mar 12 18:23
balzac Given the fact that the SEC gave Madoff the appearance of legitimacy, doesn’t teh federal government then have to accept some responsibility for the losses of Madoff’s clients? Mar 12 18:24
trmanco http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2… Mar 12 18:25
balzac Madoff, the SEC, and whoever from the Holocaust survivor’s charity who decided to invest – they all share some of the responsibility for the losses. Mar 12 18:25
balzac That was the most offensive part of madoff’s scam, the losses suffered by these 80 yr old Holocaust survivors. Mar 12 18:26
schestowitz >> by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!? Mar 12 18:27
schestowitz Stranugulation. Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_ ?? Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_ explain Mar 12 18:27
balzac They, along with Madoff’s other clients (to varying degrees, depending on their level of awareness of the shadiness of Madoff’s business) deserve some bailout because the SEC was aprt of the scame Mar 12 18:27
schestowitz See BN Mar 12 18:27
balzac scam Mar 12 18:27
schestowitz I documented lots of it Mar 12 18:27
schestowitz Android to Outsell iPhones by 2012 < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Androi… > Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_ I don’t see how windows can work right on a netbook-like machine Mar 12 18:27
MinceR i don’t see how windows can work right Mar 12 18:28
MinceR there, fixed that for you. ;) Mar 12 18:28
schestowitz balzac: that’s baloney Mar 12 18:28
schestowitz Why defend him? Mar 12 18:28
Balrog_ well, windows works right on powerful machines Mar 12 18:28
Balrog_ for a few months :P Mar 12 18:28
schestowitz Give it up. he’s the Penguin Man. Mar 12 18:28
Balrog_ then it blows up Mar 12 18:28
balzac the SEC was a part of it too Mar 12 18:28
schestowitz SEC is corrupt Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz FTC too Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz Majoras and others Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz They had conflicting interests Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz It’s like a fat cat reign of cronies for corporation Mar 12 18:29
balzac yeah, so how can Madoff be facing up to 150 years and why are all his clients SOL? Mar 12 18:29
MinceR Majora’s? :> Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz Majoras also let Intel off the hooks despite their crimes Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz Deborah Majoras Mar 12 18:29
balzac When the SEC helped him do it? Mar 12 18:29
schestowitz Do a google searcj Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz She’s not liked Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz She moved to head P&G IIRC… from politics to money Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz Then back to ‘politics’ Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz It’s like a judge who swaps careers every now and then Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz The DOJ is corrupt too Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz Barnett is one example Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz Microsoft ‘employee’ (paid by them anyway) Mar 12 18:30
balzac not saying madoff should get any bailout, but his clients – maybe so, since the SEC helped to rip them off. Mar 12 18:30
schestowitz Then deciding on ‘punishing’ Microsoft (or not) Mar 12 18:31
schestowitz MinceR: you talk anatomy? Mar 12 18:31
balzac it’s disproportionate punishement meted out on one guy and all the victims of his fraud, meanwhile, AIG is asking for another 30BN? Mar 12 18:31
balzac Who from the SEC is on trial right no? Mar 12 18:32
balzac now Mar 12 18:32
schestowitz They need to overthrow everyone Mar 12 18:32
schestowitz Start from scratch Mar 12 18:32
schestowitz the system is too polluted by favours Mar 12 18:32
schestowitz Waiting to be ‘returned’ Mar 12 18:32
schestowitz Like Barnett Mar 12 18:32
balzac What’s his name – Tom Delay was insider trading right out of his congressional office. Mar 12 18:33
schestowitz balzac: basically… Mar 12 18:33
schestowitz The system blew up Mar 12 18:33
balzac Senator Frist was trading right out of his office. Mar 12 18:33
schestowitz It didn’t take account of need for regulation Mar 12 18:33
schestowitz And idiots like Milton Friedman promoted this BS Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz While debt was mounting Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz To unprecedented levels Mar 12 18:34
balzac Cheney was getting Halliburton dividends while VP Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz Worse than Great Depression levels, by fart Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz They should have let it ‘blow’ up in 2000 Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz First bubble burst Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz Not prolong the agony Mar 12 18:34
balzac Roy, I’m just saying, the public’s rage is appeased by a bit of theater. Bernie Madoff is the clown on stage right now. Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz With more invasions Mar 12 18:34
schestowitz balzac: madoff gets uinfair judgment, i agree Mar 12 18:35
balzac The biggest crooks are walking free, as usual. Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz Give him chair Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz End theagony Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz it’ll also help many of his victims Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz They hanged Saddam Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz Some people felt good about it Mar 12 18:35
balzac Fine the bejesus out of him, and give him maybe 10 years. Mar 12 18:35
balzac Jail Frist, Delay, Bush, Cheney, etc. Mar 12 18:35
balzac for life Mar 12 18:35
schestowitz balzac: haha. fine him? Mar 12 18:36
schestowitz He has no money. Mar 12 18:36
schestowitz He owes money to everyone Mar 12 18:36
balzac he signed it over to his wife. Mar 12 18:36
balzac 70M Mar 12 18:36
schestowitz Take it away Mar 12 18:36
balzac Roy, the SEC should have to take responsibility for enabling the fraud. Mar 12 18:36
schestowitz To fund broadcasting of his last mile Mar 12 18:36
balzac Madoff didn’t do this all by himself. Mar 12 18:36
schestowitz How did the SEC enable it? Mar 12 18:37
schestowitz Turning a blind eye? Mar 12 18:37
schestowitz How many people? Mar 12 18:37
balzac That’s why Madoff’s victims are owed by the gov to varying degrees. Mar 12 18:37
schestowitz Does that judtify him getting a free pass? Mar 12 18:37
balzac Roy, Madoff worked very closely with the SEC. Mar 12 18:37
schestowitz If you see a child with candy and you can steal it safely, will you? Mar 12 18:37
balzac no free pass for madoff, but no 150 years, no electric chair, and no responsibility for the prosecution’s claim of 68B Mar 12 18:38
balzac maybe billions, but not 68B Mar 12 18:38
balzac i don’t take candy from children Mar 12 18:38
schestowitz So where is justice? Mar 12 18:38
schestowitz Balrog_: not you /you/ Mar 12 18:38
balzac start with the worst villains Mar 12 18:38
balzac Bush and Cheney arguably wrecked our economy. Madoff’s ponzi scheme could have been going along quite nicely right now if Bush hadn’t robbed us of trillions. Mar 12 18:39
balzac so he’s one bottom-feeder who’s been exposed buy a much bigger crime wave which passed. Mar 12 18:40
balzac small fry, relative to the Bush crime family Mar 12 18:40
balzac Then, after the worst are brought to justice, there’s more slack in the system and Bernie Madoff might be as more of an Ivan Boesky. Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz why did he not blow the whistle? Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz It’s his moral responsibility too Mar 12 18:42
balzac But he’s been compared to Ted Bundy in the NY Times. Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz Fine. Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz One killed women Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz One robbed billiobs Mar 12 18:42
schestowitz *ions Mar 12 18:42
balzac I’d rather be a victim of fraud than to be sliced and diced by a cannibal. Mar 12 18:42
balzac it’s very different Mar 12 18:42
balzac I’d rather be the victim of fraud than to have one of Bush’s phosphorus bombs melt my skin off, or to be tortured by his goons. Mar 12 18:44
balzac I’m just trying to bring some relativity into the discussion. Mar 12 18:44
schestowitz Yes, I know. Mar 12 18:44
balzac my only new point today is this: where’s the culpability of the SEC? Doesn’t that mean Madoff’s fraud victims are entitled to something? Mar 12 18:45
balzac Mar 12 18:45
schestowitz I’ve just looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy . Chilling :-| Mar 12 18:46
schestowitz The anaologies are flaws because of the nature of the crimes, BUT.. Mar 12 18:47
schestowitz Damage to society is being weighted too Mar 12 18:47
balzac that’s too abstract Mar 12 18:47
schestowitz Poverty can sometimes agonise more than death Mar 12 18:47
balzac tell that to Ted Bundies victims (ghosts) Mar 12 18:47
schestowitz /s/flaws/flawed/ Mar 12 18:47
schestowitz There are no ghosts ;-) Mar 12 18:48
balzac i use ghosts as a rhetorical prop Mar 12 18:48
schestowitz Russia Rolls Out Open Source for Government < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200… > Mar 12 18:49
balzac the ghosts of 1,000,000+ are howling for Bush to join them Mar 12 18:49
schestowitz Bush speaks to God Mar 12 18:49
schestowitz He says so Mar 12 18:49
Balrog_ iPhone 3.0 software will be demoed on Mar. 17 Mar 12 18:50
Balrog_ http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/1… Mar 12 18:50
Balrog_ we’ll see how well the engineering has progressed =) Mar 12 18:51
Balrog_ and copy-paste, hopefully will be there Mar 12 18:51
Balrog_ windows mobile is sooo far behind any of the competitors :P Mar 12 18:52
schestowitz Ballmer admits this Mar 12 18:52
schestowitz They almost bought RIM Mar 12 18:52
Balrog_ is rim interested in selling out? Mar 12 18:52
schestowitz Android scales /UP/ Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz to notebooks Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz The future goes mobile Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz Vista is FAT Mar 12 18:53
Balrog_ a big problem with RIM is the high ‘blackberry internet services’ fees Mar 12 18:53
balzac I know a guy who has a big clunky phone with windows mobile on it Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz It can’t scale downwards Mar 12 18:53
balzac i pity him Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz So Microsoft is in trouble Mar 12 18:53
Balrog_ OS X scaled down, android scales up…. Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz Win Mobile is stuck in the past, all forked and whatever. Mar 12 18:53
Balrog_ put them side-by-side and that’s some competition for MS to deal with Mar 12 18:53
schestowitz Forked is wrong word to use here Mar 12 18:53
balzac borked Mar 12 18:54
schestowitz I mean, it’s not maintained wiell — in a modular fashion –wrt Windows. Mar 12 18:54
schestowitz balzac: yes, that’s the tagline oF “Windows” Mar 12 18:54
balzac Windows – It’s not ah Toomah! Mar 12 18:56
MinceR schestowitz: no, i was referring to a videogame :) Mar 12 18:57
Balrog_ windows still has dos-era code, doesn’t it? Mar 12 19:00
balzac I think the goodness of a programming language can be judged not just on it’s capabilities, but on how well its character assignments respect conventions used in human language and mathmatics. Mar 12 19:02
schestowitz Balrog_: almost Mar 12 19:03
schestowitz Let me find something Mar 12 19:03
schestowitz A printer dialogue Mar 12 19:03
schestowitz Here: http://blog.loseyourmind.com/?cat=6 Mar 12 19:04
schestowitz “Basic font functionality really needs to be updated in the OS. Some of the font related dialogs boxes XP have not been updated since Windows 3.1.” Mar 12 19:04
schestowitz In Vista! :-) Mar 12 19:04
MinceR yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s prices Mar 12 19:04
schestowitz MS takes Windows 3.11 out of embed to put to bed < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/1… > Mar 12 19:05
balzac That probably means wea’ll all be dead before XP is retired. Mar 12 19:11
balzac http://www.fsdaily.com/HighEnd/Debian_5_…  <– dropped a stinker here Mar 12 19:11
schestowitz Citrix and Ignition Partners (former Microsoft employees) assisted the capture of Xen… for Windows. Mar 12 19:13
Balrog_ http://linux.slashdot.org/arti… Mar 12 19:14
Balrog_ http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20… Mar 12 19:15
Balrog_ French police save $50M euros already by switching to ubuntu Mar 12 19:15
Balrog_ “Of the move, Lt. Col. Guimard had this comment: ‘”Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users,” said Lt. Col. Guimard. “Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority.”‘”” Mar 12 19:15
Balrog_ :) Mar 12 19:16
balzac arsetehcnica.com/index.arse Mar 12 19:16
Balrog_ ?_? Mar 12 19:16
balzac they think they’re pretty clever for configuring apache to execute .ars files as php Mar 12 19:17
balzac jk Mar 12 19:17
balzac good news btw Mar 12 19:18
Balrog_ lol Mar 12 19:18
Balrog_ yeah Mar 12 19:18
MinceR i hope i won’t be dead before xp is retired Mar 12 19:18
*Omar87 (n=omar@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 12 19:18
MinceR it needs to be retired with the rest of the company. Mar 12 19:19
Balrog_ yeah Mar 12 19:20
Balrog_ though maybe part of the company could be salvaged Mar 12 19:20
balzac yeah, the marketing department Mar 12 19:23
Balrog_ well they’re flight simulator products were some of the best … though they already scrapped that :( Mar 12 19:24
balzac Steve Ballmer has a career ahead as a carnival barker Mar 12 19:25
MinceR they also destroyed Ensemble. Mar 12 19:25
*Smari (n=spm@194-144-97-93.du.xdsl.is) has joined #Boycottnovell Mar 12 19:25
MinceR ballmer should have a career ahead in penal servitude Mar 12 19:27
Balrog_ it’s interesting that the Halo game series was originally for Mac Mar 12 19:27
schestowitz Bungie bailed out, I thinkg Mar 12 19:27
Balrog_ then MS bought them out Mar 12 19:27
Balrog_ (Bungie) Mar 12 19:27
schestowitz They dissented. Mar 12 19:27
schestowitz Microsoft screwed them Mar 12 19:27
MinceR but it was called Marathon back then, wasn’t it? Mar 12 19:27
MinceR (Marathon has already been ported to linux btw) Mar 12 19:27
Balrog_ no, that came before Mar 12 19:28
schestowitz Gotta go now Mar 12 19:28
Balrog_ k Mar 12 19:28
Balrog_ write about french police dept Mar 12 19:28
Omar87 Hi Mar 12 19:30
balzac the new version of Fedora is named Leonidas Mar 12 19:35
balzac If giant, bearded, oily warriors is your thing, pick up the next Fedora Mar 12 19:35
balzac jk Mar 12 19:35
Smari Ubuntu for me thanks. Mar 12 19:36
balzac I’m going to have to make fun of that a little bit though Mar 12 19:36
balzac it’s too funny Mar 12 19:36
balzac http://www.fsdaily.com/EndU… Mar 12 19:36
balzac apparently, lots of fanboys who remember 300 are flocking to Fedora code-name Leonidas Mar 12 19:36
Balrog_ another thing Mar 12 19:37
Balrog_ Apple offered OS X for no-cost for OLPC Mar 12 19:37
Balrog_ why are they going with MS Windows then? Mar 12 19:37
Balrog_ if they don’t want Linux, OS X is certainly better than Windows… Mar 12 19:38
Smari Because Nick did a deal with M$. Mar 12 19:39
Smari The OLPC camp isn’t very happy with Negroponte. Mar 12 19:39
Balrog_ I see. Mar 12 19:39
Balrog_ doesn’t look good =( Mar 12 19:39
Smari They had a fairly massive split about a year ago.. several core people split. Mar 12 19:40
Balrog_ I see. Mar 12 19:40
Balrog_ do you think Negroponte will stay with the project? Mar 12 19:40
Smari Dunno. Hope not. But there’s enough stuff going on in the grassroots that it doesn’t really matter what he’s doing except on the hardware side. Mar 12 19:41
Balrog_ ok. Mar 12 19:41
Smari Check this out: http://blog.fablab.af/ Mar 12 19:42
Smari Under the “Afghanistan: Fab & OLPC trial” thing. Mar 12 19:42
Balrog_ what I don’t get is that they refuse no-cost OS X because it’s not fully FOSS, then they go to Windows, which is zero-foss (OS X has parts that are FOSS) Mar 12 19:42
Balrog_ someone should comment about ubuntu vs. windows Mar 12 19:43
Balrog_ ‘the rest of the world uses windows’… Mar 12 19:44
Smari *sigh* Mar 12 19:45
Balrog_ “For the Flight franchise, P-12C ( Paul Lange, lead designer for FS 11 ) replied on this thread that the team asked if they could buy the IP and spin out, and was refused.” Mar 12 19:45
Balrog_ about flight simulator Mar 12 19:46
trmanco Firefox still has ore market share that all the IE’s combined on W3schools Mar 12 19:47
trmanco more* Mar 12 19:47
trmanco http://www.w3schools.com/browse… Mar 12 19:48
trmanco 4% of W3schools visitors are Linux users Mar 12 19:48
Balrog_ and 60% of servers run linux Mar 12 19:49
Balrog_ (according to ballmer) Mar 12 19:50
balzac http://www.oteltours.com/fedor… Mar 12 19:50
trmanco “Its performance suffers from the use of Mono, though: startup times are elongated as the program pulls in various Mono runtime libraries. If you regularly run other Mono programs on your desktop this isn’t a big deal, as you’ll normally have the relevant libraries already loaded into RAM.” Mar 12 19:55
trmanco http://www.tuxradar.com/content/group-te… Mar 12 19:55
balzac http://www.oteltours.com/fedor… Mar 12 19:56
balzac please, someone tell me that’s not funny. Mar 12 19:56
balzac I’ve got to paste that link in #fedora… Mar 12 19:57
balzac tag along if you want to see the reaction Mar 12 19:57
trmanco LOOOL Mar 12 19:58
trmanco This is Fedoraaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 12 19:58
balzac 20:08 -!- balzac was kicked from #fedora by Southern_Gentlem [Southern_Gentlem] Mar 12 20:01
balzac I couldn’t resist, it was just too funny Mar 12 20:01
balzac ok, the joke’s over and the pictures are coming down Mar 12 20:03
twitter Ah, Sparta and the old South, fighting for the freedom to keep slaves. Mar 12 20:03
balzac I thought the movie 300 was in bad taste Mar 12 20:08
balzac A quote from Leonidas, 300: “Persian cowards.” Mar 12 20:09
balzac the film was released in 2006 when Bush & Cheney were trying to widen the Iraq war into Iran. Mar 12 20:09
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 12 20:10
balzac so it’s a little bit jingoistic as a pop-culture reference to code-name Fedora 10 “Leonidas” Mar 12 20:10
balzac Course I never even saw the movie because I saw “Braveheart” a long time ago and it looks similar enough. Mar 12 20:11
balzac https://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5  <– Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as well Mar 12 20:15
balzac nothing wrong with that, but I prefer booth babes to booth-dudes. Mar 12 20:16
_Hicham_ me too, I prefer babes Mar 12 20:17
_Hicham_ is Mark ShuttleWorth gay or what? Mar 12 20:17
balzac no idea Mar 12 20:18
balzac not curious Mar 12 20:18
balzac but odds are, not, just based on statistics Mar 12 20:18
_Hicham_ it would have been more attractive if they have showed a guy with a girl Mar 12 20:19
balzac you never know who or how that marketing material got made. the photographer could have been a chick who really doesn’t see anything suggestive at all there. Mar 12 20:19
balzac “i do it with ubuntu” Mar 12 20:19
balzac _Hicham_: to each their own. Mar 12 20:19
_Hicham_ so they fuck ubuntu together :)? Mar 12 20:20
balzac but it might make the job of marketing Ubuntu slightly more complicated by virtue of the niche-market appeal of that advertisement Mar 12 20:20
balzac same with Fedora 10 (code name Leonidas) Mar 12 20:21
MinceR isn’t that 11? Mar 12 20:21
_Hicham_ does it have the same ad? Mar 12 20:21
balzac big, greasy, half-naked, bearded guy “This is FEDORAAAA!!!” Mar 12 20:21
balzac okay… Mar 12 20:21
_Hicham_ where is this ad? Mar 12 20:22
balzac which? Mar 12 20:23
_Hicham_ fedora’s one Mar 12 20:23
balzac well, I made my own to make fun of the code name “Leonidas” Mar 12 20:24
balzac I’ll put it on the server again, just for laughs. Mar 12 20:24
_Hicham_ what does “Leonidas” mean? Mar 12 20:24
balzac http://www.oteltours.com/fedora_le… Mar 12 20:24
balzac spartan king, featured most recently and prominently in the movie 300 from 2006 Mar 12 20:25
_Hicham_ weird ad Mar 12 20:26
balzac it’s funny Mar 12 20:27
balzac https://usshop.ubuntu.com/tra…  <– but this one is real Mar 12 20:27
balzac as I said before, not a damn thing wrong with it… just not personally appealing Mar 12 20:28
_Hicham_ posting a guy and a girl is more attractive, since both sexes will be targeted Mar 12 20:30
balzac probably better for general appeal Mar 12 20:35
PetoKraus “to load either Linux or a full Windows OS” Mar 12 20:47
PetoKraus you mean, virii and *ware, and all? Mar 12 20:47
PetoKraus windows on ARM Mar 12 20:47
PetoKraus Lol Mar 12 20:47
PetoKraus :) Mar 12 20:47
*_Hicham_ has quit (“Leaving.”) Mar 12 20:54
twitter “Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as well”  People see what they want.  Who keeps making this homosexual stuff up? Mar 12 21:01
twitter Nothing but crap shill articles in the news about Vista. Mar 12 21:10
balzac twitter: it’s pretty suggestive. Mar 12 21:11
twitter Ina Fried, someone at Tech Crunch who says, “I’m not a Microsoft apologist” and goes right on to tell us all about how M$ got things right with Vista, sickening. Mar 12 21:11
balzac “I do it with Ubuntu” Mar 12 21:12
twitter there are plenty of other images on their store pages all with the same t-shirt Mar 12 21:12
balzac I live in NYC where there is a large gay community Mar 12 21:12
balzac you don’t see that kind of chumminess unless dudes are gay, generally… Mar 12 21:13
twitter The netbook lie is now, ” analysts say no more than 15 to 20 percent of netbooks are running Linux” Mar 12 21:13
balzac that and the shirt… Mar 12 21:13
twitter yeah, people in NYC are kind of stand off.  those two are not very “chummy” as far as things go Mar 12 21:14
twitter no body contact, like uptight kids at a high school prom Mar 12 21:14
twitter the image is all clean and corporate to me Mar 12 21:15
balzac dude, the clubs are packed with dudes Mar 12 21:15
balzac you get pretty unfriendly towards other dudes after a few saturdays fighting for elbow room in NY clubs Mar 12 21:15
twitter Somehow, I don’t see those two at a NYC club. Mar 12 21:15
twitter or at any far less crowded club in New Orleans. Mar 12 21:16
balzac somehow, they look a little too happy together not to be suggestive, and with the writing on the shirts… Mar 12 21:17
balzac not saying it’s bad, just saying it’s niche-market Mar 12 21:17
twitter the bald guy’s smile is a little leering but it’s probably just a camera face Mar 12 21:17
twitter you’ve read intentions into the image Mar 12 21:17
balzac camera’s can catch you at a funny moment Mar 12 21:18
balzac no, i’m not saying it was intended either, just the effect Mar 12 21:18
balzac this is just one of many such ads, most of them being people of varying age, gender, ethnicity Mar 12 21:18
twitter this is the only one anyone has ever pointed to and called “gay” from Ubuntu Mar 12 21:19
balzac But here’s one factor to consider – IT is dominated as an industry by dudes, most of whom are straight, so it might be a little bit of a marketing flub if general appeal is the intention. Mar 12 21:19
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  7. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, May 27, 2023

    IRC logs for Saturday, May 27, 2023

  8. No More Twitter, Mastodon, and Diaspora for Tux Machines (Goodbye to Social Control Media)

    People would benefit from mass abandonment of such pseudo-social pseudo-media.

  9. Links 28/05/2023: New Wine and More

    Links for the day

  10. Links 27/05/2023: Plans Made for GNU's 40th Anniversary

    Links for the day

  11. Social Control Media Needs to be Purged and We Need to Convince Others to Quit It Too (to Protect Ourselves as Individuals and as a Society)

    With the Tux Machines anniversary (19 years) just days away we seriously consider abandoning all social control media accounts of that site, including Mastodon and Diaspora; social control networks do far more harm than good and they’ve gotten a lot worse over time

  12. Anonymously Travelling: Still Feasible?

    The short story is that in the UK it's still possible to travel anonymously by bus, tram, and train (even with shades, hat and mask/s on), but how long for? Or how much longer have we got before this too gets banned under the false guise of "protecting us" (or "smart"/"modern")?

  13. With EUIPO in Focus, and Even an EU Kangaroo Tribunal, EPO Corruption (and Cross-Pollination With This EU Agency) Becomes a Major Liability/Risk to the EU

    With the UPC days away (an illegal and unconstitutional kangaroo court system, tied to the European Union in spite of critical deficiencies) it’s curious to see EPO scandals of corruption spilling over to the European Union already

  14. European Patent Office (EPO) Management Not Supported by the EPO's Applicants, So Why Is It Still There?

    This third translation in the batch is an article similar to the prior one, but the text is a bit different (“Patente ohne Wert”)

  15. EPO Applicants Complain That Patent Quality Sank and EPO Management Isn't Listening (Nor Caring)

    SUEPO has just released 3 translations of new articles in German (here is the first of the batch); the following is the second of the three (“Kritik am Europäischen Patentamt – Patente ohne Wert?”)

  16. German Media About Industry Patent Quality Charter (IPQC) and the European Patent Office (EPO)

    SUEPO has just released 3 translations of new articles in German; this is the first of the three (“Industrie kritisiert Europäisches Patentamt”)

  17. Geminispace Continues to Grow Even If (or When) Stéphane Bortzmeyer Stops Measuring Its Growth

    A Gemini crawler called Lupa (Free/libre software) has been used for years by Stéphane Bortzmeyer to study Gemini and report on how the community was evolving, especially from a technical perspective; but his own instance of Lupa has produced no up-to-date results for several weeks

  18. Links 27/05/2023: Goodbyes to Tina Turner

    Links for the day

  19. HMRC: You Can Click and Type to Report Crime, But No Feedback or Reference Number Given

    The crimes of Sirius ‘Open Source’ were reported 7 days ago to HMRC (equivalent to the IRS in the US, more or less); but there has been no visible progress and no tracking reference is given to identify the report

  20. IRC Proceedings: Friday, May 26, 2023

    IRC logs for Friday, May 26, 2023

  21. One Week After Sirius Open Source Was Reported to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for Tax Fraud: No Response, No Action, Nothing...

    One week ago we reported tax abuses of Sirius ‘Open Source’ to HMRC; we still wait for any actual signs that HMRC is doing anything at all about the matter (Sirius has British government clients, so maybe they’d rather not look into that, in which case HMRC might be reported to the Ombudsman for malpractice)

  22. Links 26/05/2023: Weston 12.0 Highlights and US Debt Limit Panic

    Links for the day

  23. Gemini Links 26/05/2023: New People in Gemini

    Links for the day

  24. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, May 25, 2023

    IRC logs for Thursday, May 25, 2023

  25. Links 26/05/2023: Qt 6.5.1 and Subsystems in GNUnet

    Links for the day

  26. Links 25/05/2023: Mesa 23.1.1 and Debian Reunion

    Links for the day

  27. Links 25/05/2023: IBM as Leading Wayland Pusher

    Links for the day

  28. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, May 24, 2023

    IRC logs for Wednesday, May 24, 2023

  29. Links 25/05/2023: Istio 1.16.5 and Curl 8.1.1

    Links for the day

  30. Gemini Links 25/05/2023: On Profit and Desire for Gemini

    Links for the day

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