Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 12th, 2009 - Part 2



GNOME Gedit



Enter the IRC channel now



To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.









oiaohmCan you not get the split.Mar 12 12:25
josesplit?Mar 12 12:26
oiaohmScanTwain is a front end.  Ie no drivers.Mar 12 12:26
oiaohmSo by it self cannot scan anything.Mar 12 12:26
josei think i'm followingMar 12 12:26
josenow how would i get the drivers and where would i find monoMar 12 12:26
oiaohmThe mono dependancy is in the driver.Mar 12 12:26
joseand why can't i see this information in the press releaseMar 12 12:27
josethe press release says mono needed for *gui*Mar 12 12:27
oiaohmGui of the driver.Mar 12 12:27
josehow would i access thatMar 12 12:27
josewhere would i find those filesMar 12 12:27
oiaohmSomeone cut and pasted from driver information page into a press release.Mar 12 12:27
oiaohmWithout double checking by the looks of it.Mar 12 12:28
josedo you know where i would find the drivers?Mar 12 12:28
joseok, i'm heading over to www.sane-project.org to look for those driversMar 12 12:29
oiaohmNo there not a sane-project.orgMar 12 12:30
oiaohmI am wonder where there drivers are hidden my self.Mar 12 12:30
josei couldn't find it there eitherMar 12 12:30
josea reason this grabbed my attention was that microsoft has paid people to use silverlightMar 12 12:31
josemarket uptake is a serious issue in some circlesMar 12 12:32
oiaohmhttp://graphics.kodak.com/docimagin...Mar 12 12:32
oiaohmYep universal .net driver.Mar 12 12:32
joseok that seems to be itMar 12 12:33
oiaohmNow that adds a new wrinkle to the .net problem.Mar 12 12:34
joselet me verify this then.. there is the driver gui and the scantwain gui.. one requires mono and the other qtMar 12 12:35
oiaohmYepMar 12 12:35
oiaohmEven if you are using sane with the driver you would still annoying need mono to use the driver.Mar 12 12:36
joseit's a binaryMar 12 12:36
josewithout thinking i was assuming i'd find some sourceMar 12 12:37
josestupid meMar 12 12:37
josewell, i'm actually guessing there is no source..Mar 12 12:37
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.74.11) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 12:37
_Hicham_Hi All!Mar 12 12:38
oiaohmYep jose its a closed source driver.Mar 12 12:38
josebtw, what is the flag to peek inside an rpm?Mar 12 12:39
jose-q?Mar 12 12:40
josenopeMar 12 12:40
jose-q -l?Mar 12 12:40
josenopeMar 12 12:41
oiaohmHmm its two halfs.Mar 12 12:46
oiaohmOne that is .net the gui of the driver.Mar 12 12:47
oiaohmone that is the driver it self that is a native elf.Mar 12 12:47
josedotnet files have their own format or are they encoded into the elf?Mar 12 12:50
josefor example, java has .class filesMar 12 12:51
joseyou run these as data to the jvmMar 12 12:51
josebut if you compile, i presume you would get an elf that would set everything up and run the class fileMar 12 12:52
josei imagine dotnet is possibly similarMar 12 12:52
oiaohmdotnet files are windows pe stubs with .net bytecode after it.Mar 12 12:52
josewell.. in terms of linuxMar 12 12:52
oiaohm,net binarys are the same on all platforms.Mar 12 12:52
oiaohmYes ewwMar 12 12:53
joseis pe the exec file format on windows?Mar 12 12:53
oiaohmYepMar 12 12:53
joseso wouldn't you need something that linux loader would understandMar 12 12:53
oiaohmmono windowsstubed.net.exeMar 12 12:53
oiaohmLinux kernel does not load .net executables natively.Mar 12 12:54
oiaohmNeiher does windows.Mar 12 12:54
joseie, dotnet binary needs the interface .. fineMar 12 12:54
josei thought when you said binaries you meant it just runs as is on linuxMar 12 12:55
joseunderstand nowMar 12 12:55
_Hicham_what is that program?Mar 12 12:55
josekodak scanner driverMar 12 12:55
_Hicham_isnt available natively in Linux?Mar 12 12:56
oiaohmIt does have 1 bit that is a native Linux elf.Mar 12 12:56
josehttp://graphics.kodak.com/docimaging/US/e...Mar 12 12:56
oiaohmThe driver is half .net half native _Hicham_Mar 12 12:56
josehttp://www.designtaxi.com/ne...Mar 12 12:56
oiaohmA real ugly driver.Mar 12 12:56
_Hicham_wowMar 12 12:57
_Hicham_if it was entirely in .NET, you could have used monoMar 12 12:57
_Hicham_even though it is not appreciated in hereMar 12 12:57
oiaohmI don't think the driver could have been created fully in .net and worked to twain 2.0 standard.Mar 12 12:58
_Hicham_why?Mar 12 12:58
oiaohmC calling interface to a library.Mar 12 12:58
josethanks for helping to clarify that up oiaohmMar 12 12:59
josei'll be going soon thenMar 12 12:59
oiaohmLittle bit hard to do in .net build a lib that other programs can call _Hicham_Mar 12 12:59
_Hicham_well, you can link to .NET libraries as you would do with any native libraryMar 12 13:00
_Hicham_plus, .NET library are managedMar 12 13:00
oiaohmLinux native program calling .net libraries without any fance interface.Mar 12 13:00
oiaohmfancy interfaceMar 12 13:00
joseschestowitz.. it was a false alarmMar 12 13:00
oiaohmNot that simple _Hicham_Mar 12 13:00
_Hicham_well, what do the mono assemblies do in here?Mar 12 13:01
_Hicham_aren't they created for that?Mar 12 13:01
oiaohmNopMar 12 13:01
_Hicham_what are they created for then?Mar 12 13:01
oiaohmNot to provide a pure C style interface to talk to.Mar 12 13:01
oiaohmThey provide preoptimised _Hicham_Mar 12 13:01
oiaohmgcc cil project might be able to do it in time.  Or if mono aot has major alterations maybe.Mar 12 13:02
_Hicham_is there a gcc cil project?Mar 12 13:02
oiaohmYes there is _Hicham_Mar 12 13:02
_Hicham_who is sponsoring it?Mar 12 13:03
oiaohmNo one is a person pet project.Mar 12 13:03
_Hicham_what would be the profit?Mar 12 13:03
oiaohmhttp://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cli.htmlMar 12 13:04
oiaohmNot all things have profit _Hicham_Mar 12 13:04
oiaohmSome are can it be done.Mar 12 13:04
oiaohmIt can open up the way for all language known by gcc to be built for .netMar 12 13:05
oiaohmAlso open up the way to building native programs from .net objects.Mar 12 13:05
_Hicham_but, would M$ allow that?Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_MS allowed gcc because it wasn't a threat to MSVCMar 12 13:06
oiaohmReally MSVC is not the best complier out there.Mar 12 13:06
_Hicham_but I think that this era is overMar 12 13:06
_Hicham_oiaohm : it is the most usedMar 12 13:06
_Hicham_no?Mar 12 13:07
oiaohmMS has not taken down the portland group complier.Mar 12 13:07
oiaohmFrom a techical point of view it is the best.Mar 12 13:07
_Hicham_but MSVC is most used : that is a factMar 12 13:07
_Hicham_it is used now even on Open Source projectsMar 12 13:07
_Hicham_go look in sourceforgeMar 12 13:07
oiaohmPortland group complier takes a single thread program and makes it multi threaded.Mar 12 13:07
oiaohmYou really want to make some open source programs take advantage of multi core you can gues what you would be using.Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_Visual StudioMar 12 13:08
oiaohmNopMar 12 13:08
_Hicham_or ICCMar 12 13:08
oiaohmICC does not have it either.Mar 12 13:08
_Hicham_ICC is the best out thereMar 12 13:08
_Hicham_?Mar 12 13:08
oiaohmnopMar 12 13:08
oiaohmICC does not contain auto code processing like Portland group.Mar 12 13:09
_Hicham_is Portland group compiler available for all platforms?Mar 12 13:09
oiaohmGcc is only starting to develop the means to match Portland.Mar 12 13:09
oiaohmYes Portland group complier is available for all platforms.Mar 12 13:09
oiaohmEver wondered why MSVC ended up free.Mar 12 13:10
oiaohmIts no longer a sellable product against something like portland group complier.Mar 12 13:10
_Hicham_because there was huge competitors, and free alternativesMar 12 13:10
oiaohmYes portland group complier still sells for money.Mar 12 13:10
oiaohmHigh performance systems will pay for good compliers.Mar 12 13:11
_Hicham_MSVC is not freeMar 12 13:11
oiaohmReally.  Its included for nothing in the windows sdk's.Mar 12 13:12
oiaohmBasically as a complier if you cannot aford better.Mar 12 13:12
_Hicham_the Express versions are freeMar 12 13:12
_Hicham_Standard and Professional are notMar 12 13:13
oiaohmSDK versions are also free _Hicham_Mar 12 13:13
oiaohmThat are the same as what comes in Standrad.Mar 12 13:13
_Hicham_noMar 12 13:13
oiaohmYou are paying for the IDE not the complier.Mar 12 13:13
_Hicham_they don't include ATL and MFCMar 12 13:13
oiaohmATL is on sourceforge.Mar 12 13:14
oiaohmYes free.Mar 12 13:14
_Hicham_is WTLMar 12 13:14
_Hicham_not ATLMar 12 13:14
_Hicham_are u sure?Mar 12 13:14
oiaohmOpps mixed WTL and ATL up.Mar 12 13:14
oiaohmATL and MFC can be got threw mainsoft.Mar 12 13:14
oiaohmIndependant to the complier.Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_if u payMar 12 13:15
oiaohmThey are not the complier.Mar 12 13:15
oiaohmIts like saying QT is part of gcc.Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_i know they are not the compilerMar 12 13:15
_Hicham_but they are still essentialMar 12 13:15
oiaohmNot really.Mar 12 13:15
_Hicham_all projects use MFCMar 12 13:15
oiaohmIf you are building QT projects like me MFC is just a waste of space.Mar 12 13:16
_Hicham_not all people work with QTMar 12 13:16
_Hicham_a lot of programmers still prefer MFCMar 12 13:16
_Hicham_and a lot of legacy programs are in MFCMar 12 13:16
_Hicham_and the most evident way to port them is wxWidgetsMar 12 13:16
_Hicham_but it is not that easyMar 12 13:17
oiaohmExaclty.Mar 12 13:17
oiaohmIt simple not to have the headache in the first place and just code straight in QT and be done with it.Mar 12 13:17
_Hicham_but what about legacy programs?Mar 12 13:17
oiaohmMFC is not what you call the greatest performing thing.Mar 12 13:17
_Hicham_it is not about performanceMar 12 13:18
oiaohmMy legacy programs are from Posix world.  So its not a issue to me.Mar 12 13:18
oiaohmNot all coders need MFC.Mar 12 13:18
_Hicham_Qt has created a migration framework for MFC programsMar 12 13:18
oiaohmSo does mainsoft.Mar 12 13:18
_Hicham_it is a good job, but still a long processMar 12 13:19
_Hicham_mainsoft port them natively, no?Mar 12 13:19
oiaohmReason why its advantagece to anyone working cross platform to buy MFC threw mainsoft.Mar 12 13:19
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Mar 12 13:19
oiaohmYou get natively ported MFC on Linux as well as MFC support on windows.Mar 12 13:19
oiaohmBasically there is very little reason to be buying MSVC for anything other that that you like the IDE.Mar 12 13:20
_Hicham_is there any equivalent IDE?Mar 12 13:20
oiaohmI am more use to kdevelop than MSVC.Mar 12 13:20
_Hicham_and in ur opinion kdevelop is better than MSVC?Mar 12 13:21
oiaohmOk kdevelop does not have all the features of MS.  But I don't code the same way as MS IDE works.Mar 12 13:21
oiaohmIts not always being better _Hicham_ its more if it sutes your style.Mar 12 13:22
_Hicham_I know it is not about being better, but there is a style for each platformMar 12 13:23
_Hicham_and MSVC is Window's styleMar 12 13:23
oiaohmMy own kdevelop has some of my own personal addons for code auditing for secuirty flaws.Mar 12 13:23
oiaohmThat I would have to rebuild if I went to MSVSMar 12 13:24
oiaohmIntergrated valgrind is also useful.   Its very hard to find something like valgrind for windows.Mar 12 13:24
_Hicham_isn't it available for windows also?Mar 12 13:24
_Hicham_valgrind is cross platform, no?Mar 12 13:25
oiaohmEverywhere bar windows.Mar 12 13:25
oiaohmTo run it on a windows binary you have to run the windows binary inside wine _Hicham_Mar 12 13:26
oiaohmYes on Linux.Mar 12 13:26
_Hicham_what about using Cygwin to compile it on Windows?Mar 12 13:27
oiaohmDoes not work.Mar 12 13:27
oiaohmIts depending on lower level stuff in the OS that don't line up.Mar 12 13:27
_Hicham_Cygwin is always in progressMar 12 13:28
oiaohmCygwin techincally can never do it.Mar 12 13:29
oiaohmWill not matter how much it improves.Mar 12 13:29
_Hicham_ok, i see what u meanMar 12 13:30
_Hicham_i didn't work with kdevelop a lotMar 12 13:30
_Hicham_to be honest with you, i found kde unstable the time i used itMar 12 13:30
oiaohmWhat distribution.Mar 12 13:31
oiaohmWhat version of kde as well.Mar 12 13:31
oiaohmkde 3.5 under debian is highly stable.Mar 12 13:31
oiaohmIf you where trying Ubuntu or Fedora I could understand stablity problems.Mar 12 13:32
_Hicham_i think i used it under mandrake 9.1Mar 12 13:32
_Hicham_do u think Ubuntu is less stable?Mar 12 13:32
oiaohmmandrake is about the same.Mar 12 13:32
oiaohmBoth include more proto features.Mar 12 13:33
oiaohmUbuntu pulseaudio on by default causes KDE some issues.Mar 12 13:33
oiaohmto be correct pulseaudio causes a lot of programs some issues.Mar 12 13:34
_Hicham_it is not easy to abstrat all sound interfacesMar 12 13:34
_Hicham_but we still need a unique sound systemMar 12 13:34
_Hicham_a modern and innovative oneMar 12 13:35
_Hicham_like direct soundMar 12 13:35
oiaohmWhat pulseaudio is doing will disappear in time.Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_there should be a unified frameworkMar 12 13:35
oiaohmIts simply not compadible with what the Linux kernel will be in a few years.Mar 12 13:35
_Hicham_that way game makers will develop for linuxMar 12 13:35
_Hicham_then there should an alternativeMar 12 13:36
_Hicham_there must be sthg like direct sound modelMar 12 13:36
oiaohm_Hicham_: What alternative is needed.Mar 12 13:36
oiaohmAlsa is there.Mar 12 13:36
_Hicham_not the only oneMar 12 13:36
oiaohmNeeds work.  pulseaudio is basically a destraction.Mar 12 13:36
oiaohmcgroups feature that is being embeded in Linux will basically snap pulseaudio.Mar 12 13:37
oiaohmPulseaudio stores information inside a server that should be connected to the process itself.Mar 12 13:37
oiaohmReason why Pulseaudio will die its design is wrong.Mar 12 13:38
oiaohmAnyone who read open source sound history would know that all sound servers in time die.Mar 12 13:39
_Hicham_just a temporary solutionMar 12 13:39
oiaohmA bad temporay solution.Mar 12 13:39
_Hicham_what do u suggest?Mar 12 13:39
oiaohmcgroups are about resource control.Mar 12 13:39
oiaohmAudio is just another resource to control.Mar 12 13:40
_Hicham_yes, that is it, it is a just a resourceMar 12 13:40
oiaohmcgroups are kernel level.   Connect information to processes.  So when a process is indivudually suspend when restored its state can remain.Mar 12 13:40
_Hicham_what do u think of direct sound?Mar 12 13:41
oiaohmcgroups all ready control cpu mem network and process tables.  Work is on way for devices and video.Mar 12 13:41
oiaohmdirect sound could be done way better.Mar 12 13:42
oiaohmThat is the other problem with pulseaudio its not in a location where it can have any effect on how much cpu time its feeder applications get.Mar 12 13:43
_Hicham_i think that there should be the same thing in linuxMar 12 13:43
_Hicham_a kind of unified framework for audio and videoMar 12 13:43
oiaohmWhat is the most important thing to make that work _Hicham_Mar 12 13:44
oiaohmIts so simple.  CPU time where it needed.Mar 12 13:44
oiaohmThe things that control the allocations of cpu time is inside the kernel itself.Mar 12 13:44
oiaohmThe complete idea of sound server solution is not going to work.Mar 12 13:45
_Hicham_and so, sound in linux will always be a messMar 12 13:46
oiaohmVideo in Linux is already moving its management kernel mode.Mar 12 13:46
oiaohmI would not say always be a mess.Mar 12 13:47
oiaohmPeople said that about X11 too.Mar 12 13:47
oiaohmMany years latter it getting cleaned up as common sence as taken over.Mar 12 13:47
oiaohmIts more how long before a common sence event happens to the audio system.Mar 12 13:48
_Hicham_it won'tMar 12 13:49
_Hicham_there must be some central authorityMar 12 13:49
oiaohmSame was said about X11 _Hicham_Mar 12 13:49
_Hicham_or torvalds himself should decideMar 12 13:49
oiaohmIts exacty like X11Mar 12 13:49
oiaohmthere is a central authority just completely disreguared.Mar 12 13:50
oiaohmLot of Linux problems are not unique.Mar 12 13:51
_Hicham_I prefer a central authority with a bad model, than a bunch of good stuff here and thereMar 12 13:51
_Hicham_at least we can develop for itMar 12 13:52
oiaohmLook at X11 with the Toolkits.Mar 12 13:52
_Hicham_brbMar 12 13:52
oiaohmInstead of fixing X11 as they should have.  People were patching toolkits.Mar 12 13:52
oiaohmSound Servers are the same thing.Mar 12 13:52
oiaohmSooner or later someone will wake up that is impossable to fix in userspace and start work on kernel space and the interfaces between kernel space and userspace as they should have been all along.Mar 12 13:53
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 12 13:56
_Hicham_is anyone here?Mar 12 14:21
schestowitzYes, I amMar 12 14:22
schestowitzJust making Bn posts ATMMar 12 14:22
_Hicham_what is it about?Mar 12 14:22
schestowitzThe current one about KodakMar 12 14:24
schestowitzI'll post it now, see if you can find errorMar 12 14:24
schestowitzOK, posted now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03...Mar 12 14:26
schestowitzSee what you think.Mar 12 14:26
_Hicham_jose was just talking about thatMar 12 14:30
_Hicham_the post is greatMar 12 14:40
*Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.")Mar 12 14:42
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 14:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: thanks, I had a funny feeling about that postMar 12 14:43
EruaraneeksMar 12 14:44
schestowitzI never rephrase sentences, I just write the thoughts down quickly, then proofread.Mar 12 14:44
Eruaranmy network is all over the placeMar 12 14:44
schestowitzEruaran: new movel from ASUS (eeK)Mar 12 14:44
schestowitzEEK PC... when EEE gets XP.Mar 12 14:44
schestowitzLike "WOW", Vista sure sucks.Mar 12 14:45
schestowitzOr "EEK", my netbooks slowed down considerably with WindowsMar 12 14:45
EruaranAs Bond said in Casino RoyaleMar 12 14:46
Eruaran"yes... considerably"Mar 12 14:46
EruaranMy Kubuntu desktop is rather lively with the notificationsMar 12 14:47
Eruarannot in an annoying way thoughMar 12 14:47
EruaranUAC is annoyingMar 12 14:48
EruaranKDE 4.2's growl like notifications are rather pleasant since they don't get in your wayMar 12 14:49
EruaranMicrosoft copying everything Apple does is so pathetically sadMar 12 15:10
EruaranApple could open a retail store and Microsoft would copy themMar 12 15:11
Eruaranoh... wait...Mar 12 15:11
schestowitzYes, exactlyMar 12 15:14
schestowitzBecuase Microsoft wants (and needs) to sell h/wMar 12 15:14
schestowitzThe peoblem is thisMar 12 15:14
schestowitzShall they choose this path they alienate OEMMar 12 15:15
schestowitz*OEMsMar 12 15:15
schestowitzwho then embrace more of Linux, obviouslyMar 12 15:15
schestowitzSame problem with the rumoured Microsoft PhoneMar 12 15:15
twitterha ha, BBC goes through the 123 of getting their very own Winblows botnet http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/program...Mar 12 15:30
schestowitzYes, I saw thatMar 12 15:32
schestowitzWhere did you find it?Mar 12 15:32
schestowitzCause I was gonna slam the MSBBC for itMar 12 15:32
schestowitzIt's it's widespread by now (criticism), then it ain't worth repeating.Mar 12 15:32
twitterSlashdotMar 12 15:37
twitterhttp://it.slashdot.org/articl...Mar 12 15:37
schestowitzAh, OKMar 12 15:38
schestowitzlet's see how they present itMar 12 15:38
schestowitzLOLMar 12 15:39
schestowitz+1 to /. this time (good headlineMar 12 15:39
schestowitzhttp://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_te... ( Lawmakers: NASA watchdog lacks bite, needs to go )Mar 12 15:53
twitterGOD, Slashdot just front paged this idiot article http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cont...Mar 12 15:55
schestowitzYuck! Wintel press cited Net Applications (sponsored to lie by Microsoft and Apple)Mar 12 15:56
schestowitzThey also cite the shills from gartnerMar 12 15:57
schestowitzThere should really be some sort of overhaul. Microsoft is spreading its money to poison all sorts of talking headsMar 12 15:57
schestowitz"Ray Valdes, research director at Gartner"Mar 12 15:58
schestowitzHow many contracts are these people doing with Microsoft?Mar 12 15:58
schestowitz:-) How many with Mozilla? (Haha. None.)Mar 12 15:58
schestowitzBT freezes wages for 100,000 <  http://www.theregister.co.u... Mar 12 16:03
schestowitzWatch this nonsense  about 'netbooks' not being secure (as though security is a hardware issue): http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9...Mar 12 16:37
*austus (n=chatzill@71-83-223-23.dhcp.whtr.ca.charter.com) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 16:38
schestowitzis OLPC dumping WIndows for GNU/Linux :-) http://www.pcworld.com/article/16111...Mar 12 16:39
MinceRor for the undead windows ceMar 12 16:41
MinceRor negroponte just wants to have his pockets stuffed againMar 12 16:41
schestowitzDell Cuts Staff Worldwide < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161114/... >Mar 12 16:43
schestowitz /s/undead/dying/ ?Mar 12 16:44
*mib_ecza66 (i=44e625da@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-00e7f1c0b03f95ef) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 16:51
*mib_ecza66 has quit (Client Quit)Mar 12 16:51
schestowitzSony is suing because this ad contains its controller: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...Mar 12 17:10
schestowitzThe BBC may indeed be breaking the law: http://www.theregister.co.uk/...Mar 12 17:15
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))Mar 12 17:19
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 17:20
schestowitzMicrosoft leaves Office exposed to crackers for another month < http://www.heise.de/english/n... > No hurry, Microsoft. You do well for FOSS.Mar 12 17:22
*PeterFA has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 12 17:27
*PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 17:28
*PeterFA has quit (SendQ exceeded)Mar 12 17:28
*PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 17:29
schestowitzJose_X asks: "Does anyone know if Intel feeds Microsoft undocumented optimized opcodes for their chips? "Mar 12 17:32
twitterOLPC goes ARM ... about time.Mar 12 17:47
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 12 17:48
twitterwho cares about opcodes when ACPI lies to you and cripples basic hardware function?Mar 12 17:49
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 17:49
schestowitzI'm doing a quick postMar 12 17:50
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Mar 12 17:51
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/...Mar 12 17:54
schestowitzNew post. Some background about OLPC there too.Mar 12 17:55
twittercoolMar 12 17:58
*schestowitz writes about MSBBC quicklyMar 12 18:03
Balrog_the situation with rambus .... not too goodMar 12 18:11
schestowitzMore brand-jacking: Open Source Ecology < http://journalwatch.conservationmagazin... >Mar 12 18:13
schestowitzBalrog_: I have a post coming about itMar 12 18:13
schestowitzAny news you've seen?Mar 12 18:13
Balrog_http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/20...Mar 12 18:13
schestowitzOther than the fee collection?Mar 12 18:13
schestowitzOh thatMar 12 18:13
Balrog_not really yetMar 12 18:13
schestowitzYes, I got itMar 12 18:13
Balrog_well they're still going to appealMar 12 18:14
twittermore cooperation between M$, Cisco and VMware http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/031109...Mar 12 18:14
schestowitzThanks, i'll add this as a second citeMar 12 18:14
schestowitzI had this for 2 days: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...Mar 12 18:14
Balrog_heh ... parallels for mac is better than vmwareMar 12 18:14
Balrog_even vbox is better than vmware on macMar 12 18:15
schestowitzvmware is msftiedMar 12 18:15
Balrog_vmware (mac) really got slow with 2.0Mar 12 18:15
schestowitzFor Win or Linux?Mar 12 18:16
schestowitzWhat can a Mac do that other platforms can't?Mar 12 18:16
Balrog_it has cocoaMar 12 18:16
Balrog_that's the main differenceMar 12 18:16
Balrog_Cocoa for Linux (GNUStep) is very experimentalMar 12 18:17
Balrog_and few people are working on it. :(Mar 12 18:17
Balrog_And I refuse to use Windows.....so that leaves me with Linux and Mac, both of which I useMar 12 18:17
schestowitzWhat's the appeal of cocoa?Mar 12 18:18
Balrog_much nicer than X11; easier to work with (IMO)Mar 12 18:18
schestowitzThere was a guy back in 2002 (IIRC) called Robert Eisenberg who worked on a Linux portMar 12 18:18
Balrog_GNUStep is the linux portMar 12 18:19
Balrog_http://www.gnu.org/software/gnustep/Mar 12 18:19
schestowitzHe told me he tried to be rewarded with a Mac for the project, so I remember.Mar 12 18:19
schestowitzx11 is fineMar 12 18:19
Balrog_(Cocoa came from NEXTSTEP)Mar 12 18:19
schestowitzI know.Mar 12 18:19
Balrog_it's fine but I feel that X11 is bloated and allMar 12 18:19
schestowitzIn terms of visual, x is still fantasticMar 12 18:19
schestowitzI absolutely love x forwarding tooMar 12 18:20
schestowitzWindows can't bear thatMar 12 18:20
schestowitz*beatMar 12 18:20
Balrog_yeah that's probably one of the better thingsMar 12 18:20
Balrog_X-forwardingMar 12 18:20
Balrog_though my networks aren't fast enough for itMar 12 18:20
Balrog_:/Mar 12 18:20
schestowitzA lot of stuff I'm doing via sshMar 12 18:20
Balrog_I use terminal, text-onlyMar 12 18:20
schestowitzI use resources rather than 'computer'Mar 12 18:20
Balrog_?Mar 12 18:21
Balrog_alsoMar 12 18:21
Balrog_I like the mach kernelMar 12 18:21
Balrog_and the way the OS X system is put together (meaning application packages, frameworks, etc)Mar 12 18:21
balzacI had some new thoughts re MadoffMar 12 18:21
balzacWho in teh SEC was aiding and abetting his fraud?Mar 12 18:22
balzacAren't public officials held to a higher standard than the rest of us?Mar 12 18:22
Balrog_by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!?Mar 12 18:23
balzacThe SEC was given the power and responsibility to regulate the finance industry and they didn't. Nevermind the fact that Madoff was influencing them.Mar 12 18:23
balzacGiven the fact that the SEC gave Madoff the appearance of legitimacy, doesn't teh federal government then have to accept some responsibility for the losses of Madoff's clients?Mar 12 18:24
trmancohttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2...Mar 12 18:25
balzacMadoff, the SEC, and whoever from the Holocaust survivor's charity who decided to invest - they all share some of the responsibility for the losses.Mar 12 18:25
balzacThat was the most offensive part of madoff's scam, the losses suffered by these 80 yr old Holocaust survivors.Mar 12 18:26
schestowitz>> by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!?Mar 12 18:27
schestowitzStranugulation.Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_??Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_explainMar 12 18:27
balzacThey, along with Madoff's other clients (to varying degrees, depending on their level of awareness of the shadiness of Madoff's business) deserve some bailout because the SEC was aprt of the scameMar 12 18:27
schestowitzSee BNMar 12 18:27
balzacscamMar 12 18:27
schestowitzI documented lots of itMar 12 18:27
schestowitzAndroid to Outsell iPhones by 2012 < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Androi... >Mar 12 18:27
Balrog_I don't see how windows can work right on a netbook-like machineMar 12 18:27
MinceRi don't see how windows can work rightMar 12 18:28
MinceRthere, fixed that for you. ;)Mar 12 18:28
schestowitzbalzac: that's baloneyMar 12 18:28
schestowitzWhy defend him?Mar 12 18:28
Balrog_well, windows works right on powerful machinesMar 12 18:28
Balrog_for a few months :PMar 12 18:28
schestowitzGive it up. he's the Penguin Man.Mar 12 18:28
Balrog_then it blows upMar 12 18:28
balzacthe SEC was a part of it tooMar 12 18:28
schestowitzSEC is corruptMar 12 18:29
schestowitzFTC tooMar 12 18:29
schestowitzMajoras and othersMar 12 18:29
schestowitzThey had conflicting interestsMar 12 18:29
schestowitzIt's like a fat cat reign of cronies for corporationMar 12 18:29
balzacyeah, so how can Madoff be facing up to 150 years and why are all his clients SOL?Mar 12 18:29
MinceRMajora's? :>Mar 12 18:29
schestowitzMajoras also let Intel off the hooks despite their crimesMar 12 18:29
schestowitzDeborah MajorasMar 12 18:29
balzacWhen the SEC helped him do it?Mar 12 18:29
schestowitzDo a google searcjMar 12 18:30
schestowitzShe's not likedMar 12 18:30
schestowitzShe moved to head P&G IIRC... from politics to moneyMar 12 18:30
schestowitzThen back to 'politics'Mar 12 18:30
schestowitzIt's like a judge who swaps careers every now and thenMar 12 18:30
schestowitzThe DOJ is corrupt tooMar 12 18:30
schestowitzBarnett is one exampleMar 12 18:30
schestowitzMicrosoft 'employee' (paid by them anyway)Mar 12 18:30
balzacnot saying madoff should get any bailout, but his clients - maybe so, since the SEC helped to rip them off.Mar 12 18:30
schestowitzThen deciding on 'punishing' Microsoft (or not)Mar 12 18:31
schestowitzMinceR: you talk anatomy?Mar 12 18:31
balzacit's disproportionate punishement meted out on one guy and all the victims of his fraud, meanwhile, AIG is asking for another 30BN?Mar 12 18:31
balzacWho from the SEC is on trial right no?Mar 12 18:32
balzacnowMar 12 18:32
schestowitzThey need to overthrow everyoneMar 12 18:32
schestowitzStart from scratchMar 12 18:32
schestowitzthe system is too polluted by favoursMar 12 18:32
schestowitzWaiting to be 'returned'Mar 12 18:32
schestowitzLike BarnettMar 12 18:32
balzacWhat's his name - Tom Delay was insider trading right out of his congressional office.Mar 12 18:33
schestowitzbalzac: basically...Mar 12 18:33
schestowitzThe system blew upMar 12 18:33
balzacSenator Frist was trading right out of his office.Mar 12 18:33
schestowitzIt didn't take account of need for regulationMar 12 18:33
schestowitzAnd idiots like Milton Friedman promoted this BSMar 12 18:34
schestowitzWhile debt was mountingMar 12 18:34
schestowitzTo unprecedented levelsMar 12 18:34
balzacCheney was getting Halliburton dividends while VPMar 12 18:34
schestowitzWorse than Great Depression levels, by fartMar 12 18:34
schestowitzThey should have let it 'blow' up in 2000Mar 12 18:34
schestowitzFirst bubble burstMar 12 18:34
schestowitzNot prolong the agonyMar 12 18:34
balzacRoy, I'm just saying, the public's rage is appeased by a bit of theater. Bernie Madoff is the clown on stage right now.Mar 12 18:34
schestowitzWith more invasionsMar 12 18:34
schestowitzbalzac: madoff gets uinfair judgment, i agreeMar 12 18:35
balzacThe biggest crooks are walking free, as usual.Mar 12 18:35
schestowitzGive him chairMar 12 18:35
schestowitzEnd theagonyMar 12 18:35
schestowitzit'll also help many of his victimsMar 12 18:35
schestowitzThey hanged SaddamMar 12 18:35
schestowitzSome people felt good about itMar 12 18:35
balzacFine the bejesus out of him, and give him maybe 10 years.Mar 12 18:35
balzacJail Frist, Delay, Bush, Cheney, etc.Mar 12 18:35
balzacfor lifeMar 12 18:35
schestowitzbalzac: haha. fine him?Mar 12 18:36
schestowitzHe has no money.Mar 12 18:36
schestowitzHe owes money to everyoneMar 12 18:36
balzache signed it over to his wife.Mar 12 18:36
balzac70MMar 12 18:36
schestowitzTake it awayMar 12 18:36
balzacRoy, the SEC should have to take responsibility for enabling the fraud.Mar 12 18:36
schestowitzTo fund broadcasting of his last mileMar 12 18:36
balzacMadoff didn't do this all by himself.Mar 12 18:36
schestowitzHow did the SEC enable it?Mar 12 18:37
schestowitzTurning a blind eye?Mar 12 18:37
schestowitzHow many people?Mar 12 18:37
balzacThat's why Madoff's victims are owed by the gov to varying degrees.Mar 12 18:37
schestowitzDoes that judtify him getting a free pass?Mar 12 18:37
balzacRoy, Madoff worked very closely with the SEC.Mar 12 18:37
schestowitzIf you see a child with candy and you can steal it safely, will you?Mar 12 18:37
balzacno free pass for madoff, but no 150 years, no electric chair, and no responsibility for the prosecution's claim of 68BMar 12 18:38
balzacmaybe billions, but not 68BMar 12 18:38
balzaci don't take candy from childrenMar 12 18:38
schestowitzSo where is justice?Mar 12 18:38
schestowitzBalrog_: not you /you/Mar 12 18:38
balzacstart with the worst villainsMar 12 18:38
balzacBush and Cheney arguably wrecked our economy. Madoff's ponzi scheme could have been going along quite nicely right now if Bush hadn't robbed us of trillions.Mar 12 18:39
balzacso he's one bottom-feeder who's been exposed buy a much bigger crime wave which passed.Mar 12 18:40
balzacsmall fry, relative to the Bush crime familyMar 12 18:40
balzacThen, after the worst are brought to justice, there's more slack in the system and Bernie Madoff might be as more of an Ivan Boesky.Mar 12 18:42
schestowitzwhy did he not blow the whistle?Mar 12 18:42
schestowitzIt's his moral responsibility tooMar 12 18:42
balzacBut he's been compared to Ted Bundy in the NY Times.Mar 12 18:42
schestowitzFine.Mar 12 18:42
schestowitzOne killed womenMar 12 18:42
schestowitzOne robbed billiobsMar 12 18:42
schestowitz*ionsMar 12 18:42
balzacI'd rather be a victim of fraud than to be sliced and diced by a cannibal.Mar 12 18:42
balzacit's very differentMar 12 18:42
balzacI'd rather be the victim of fraud than to have one of Bush's phosphorus bombs melt my skin off, or to be tortured by his goons.Mar 12 18:44
balzacI'm just trying to bring some relativity into the discussion.Mar 12 18:44
schestowitzYes, I know.Mar 12 18:44
balzacmy only new point today is this: where's the culpability of the SEC? Doesn't that mean Madoff's fraud victims are entitled to something?Mar 12 18:45
balzac...Mar 12 18:45
schestowitzI've just looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy . Chilling :-|Mar 12 18:46
schestowitzThe anaologies are flaws because of the nature of the crimes, BUT..Mar 12 18:47
schestowitzDamage to society is being weighted tooMar 12 18:47
balzacthat's too abstractMar 12 18:47
schestowitzPoverty can sometimes agonise more than deathMar 12 18:47
balzactell that to Ted Bundies victims (ghosts)Mar 12 18:47
schestowitz /s/flaws/flawed/Mar 12 18:47
schestowitzThere are no ghosts ;-)Mar 12 18:48
balzaci use ghosts as a rhetorical propMar 12 18:48
schestowitzRussia Rolls Out Open Source for Government < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200... >Mar 12 18:49
balzacthe ghosts of 1,000,000+ are howling for Bush to join themMar 12 18:49
schestowitzBush speaks to GodMar 12 18:49
schestowitzHe says soMar 12 18:49
Balrog_iPhone 3.0 software will be demoed on Mar. 17Mar 12 18:50
Balrog_http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/1...Mar 12 18:50
Balrog_we'll see how well the engineering has progressed =)Mar 12 18:51
Balrog_and copy-paste, hopefully will be thereMar 12 18:51
Balrog_windows mobile is sooo far behind any of the competitors :PMar 12 18:52
schestowitzBallmer admits thisMar 12 18:52
schestowitzThey almost bought RIMMar 12 18:52
Balrog_is rim interested in selling out?Mar 12 18:52
schestowitzAndroid scales /UP/Mar 12 18:53
schestowitzto notebooksMar 12 18:53
schestowitzThe future goes mobileMar 12 18:53
schestowitzVista is FATMar 12 18:53
Balrog_a big problem with RIM is the high 'blackberry internet services' feesMar 12 18:53
balzacI know a guy who has a big clunky phone with windows mobile on itMar 12 18:53
schestowitzIt can't scale downwardsMar 12 18:53
balzaci pity himMar 12 18:53
schestowitzSo Microsoft is in troubleMar 12 18:53
Balrog_OS X scaled down, android scales up....Mar 12 18:53
schestowitzWin Mobile is stuck in the past, all forked and whatever.Mar 12 18:53
Balrog_put them side-by-side and that's some competition for MS to deal withMar 12 18:53
schestowitzForked is wrong word to use hereMar 12 18:53
balzacborkedMar 12 18:54
schestowitzI mean, it's not maintained wiell -- in a modular fashion --wrt Windows.Mar 12 18:54
schestowitzbalzac: yes, that's the tagline oF "Windows"Mar 12 18:54
balzacWindows - It's not ah Toomah!Mar 12 18:56
MinceRschestowitz: no, i was referring to a videogame :)Mar 12 18:57
Balrog_windows still has dos-era code, doesn't it?Mar 12 19:00
balzacI think the goodness of a programming language can be judged not just on it's capabilities, but on how well its character assignments respect conventions used in human language and mathmatics.Mar 12 19:02
schestowitzBalrog_: almostMar 12 19:03
schestowitzLet me find somethingMar 12 19:03
schestowitzA printer dialogueMar 12 19:03
schestowitzHere: http://blog.loseyourmind.com/?cat=6Mar 12 19:04
schestowitz"Basic font functionality really needs to be updated in the OS. Some of the font related dialogs boxes XP have not been updated since Windows 3.1."Mar 12 19:04
schestowitzIn Vista! :-)Mar 12 19:04
MinceRyesterday's technology at tomorrow's pricesMar 12 19:04
schestowitzMS takes Windows 3.11 out of embed to put to bed < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/1... >Mar 12 19:05
balzacThat probably means wea'll all be dead before XP is retired.Mar 12 19:11
balzachttp://www.fsdaily.com/HighEnd/Debian_5_...  <-- dropped a stinker hereMar 12 19:11
schestowitzCitrix and Ignition Partners (former Microsoft employees) assisted the capture of Xen... for Windows.Mar 12 19:13
Balrog_http://linux.slashdot.org/arti...Mar 12 19:14
Balrog_http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20...Mar 12 19:15
Balrog_French police save $50M euros already by switching to ubuntuMar 12 19:15
Balrog_"Of the move, Lt. Col. Guimard had this comment: '"Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users," said Lt. Col. Guimard. "Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority."'""Mar 12 19:15
Balrog_:)Mar 12 19:16
balzacarsetehcnica.com/index.arseMar 12 19:16
Balrog_?_?Mar 12 19:16
balzacthey think they're pretty clever for configuring apache to execute .ars files as phpMar 12 19:17
balzacjkMar 12 19:17
balzacgood news btwMar 12 19:18
Balrog_lolMar 12 19:18
Balrog_yeahMar 12 19:18
MinceRi hope i won't be dead before xp is retiredMar 12 19:18
*Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.100.127) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 19:18
MinceRit needs to be retired with the rest of the company.Mar 12 19:19
Balrog_yeahMar 12 19:20
Balrog_though maybe part of the company could be salvagedMar 12 19:20
balzacyeah, the marketing departmentMar 12 19:23
Balrog_well they're flight simulator products were some of the best ... though they already scrapped that :(Mar 12 19:24
balzacSteve Ballmer has a career ahead as a carnival barkerMar 12 19:25
MinceRthey also destroyed Ensemble.Mar 12 19:25
*Smari (n=spm@194-144-97-93.du.xdsl.is) has joined #BoycottnovellMar 12 19:25
MinceRballmer should have a career ahead in penal servitudeMar 12 19:27
Balrog_it's interesting that the Halo game series was originally for MacMar 12 19:27
schestowitzBungie bailed out, I thinkgMar 12 19:27
Balrog_then MS bought them outMar 12 19:27
Balrog_(Bungie)Mar 12 19:27
schestowitzThey dissented.Mar 12 19:27
schestowitzMicrosoft screwed themMar 12 19:27
MinceRbut it was called Marathon back then, wasn't it?Mar 12 19:27
MinceR(Marathon has already been ported to linux btw)Mar 12 19:27
Balrog_no, that came beforeMar 12 19:28
schestowitzGotta go nowMar 12 19:28
Balrog_kMar 12 19:28
Balrog_write about french police deptMar 12 19:28
Omar87HiMar 12 19:30
balzacthe new version of Fedora is named LeonidasMar 12 19:35
balzacIf giant, bearded, oily warriors is your thing, pick up the next FedoraMar 12 19:35
balzacjkMar 12 19:35
SmariUbuntu for me thanks.Mar 12 19:36
balzacI'm going to have to make fun of that a little bit thoughMar 12 19:36
balzacit's too funnyMar 12 19:36
balzachttp://www.fsdaily.com/EndU...Mar 12 19:36
balzacapparently, lots of fanboys who remember 300 are flocking to Fedora code-name LeonidasMar 12 19:36
Balrog_another thingMar 12 19:37
Balrog_Apple offered OS X for no-cost for OLPCMar 12 19:37
Balrog_why are they going with MS Windows then?Mar 12 19:37
Balrog_if they don't want Linux, OS X is certainly better than Windows...Mar 12 19:38
SmariBecause Nick did a deal with M$.Mar 12 19:39
SmariThe OLPC camp isn't very happy with Negroponte.Mar 12 19:39
Balrog_I see.Mar 12 19:39
Balrog_doesn't look good =(Mar 12 19:39
SmariThey had a fairly massive split about a year ago.. several core people split.Mar 12 19:40
Balrog_I see.Mar 12 19:40
Balrog_do you think Negroponte will stay with the project?Mar 12 19:40
SmariDunno. Hope not. But there's enough stuff going on in the grassroots that it doesn't really matter what he's doing except on the hardware side.Mar 12 19:41
Balrog_ok.Mar 12 19:41
SmariCheck this out: http://blog.fablab.af/Mar 12 19:42
SmariUnder the "Afghanistan: Fab & OLPC trial" thing.Mar 12 19:42
Balrog_what I don't get is that they refuse no-cost OS X because it's not fully FOSS, then they go to Windows, which is zero-foss (OS X has parts that are FOSS)Mar 12 19:42
Balrog_someone should comment about ubuntu vs. windowsMar 12 19:43
Balrog_'the rest of the world uses windows'...Mar 12 19:44
Smari*sigh*Mar 12 19:45
Balrog_"For the Flight franchise, P-12C ( Paul Lange, lead designer for FS 11 ) replied on this thread that the team asked if they could buy the IP and spin out, and was refused."Mar 12 19:45
Balrog_about flight simulatorMar 12 19:46
trmancoFirefox still has ore market share that all the IE's combined on W3schoolsMar 12 19:47
trmancomore*Mar 12 19:47
trmancohttp://www.w3schools.com/browse...Mar 12 19:48
trmanco4% of W3schools visitors are Linux usersMar 12 19:48
Balrog_and 60% of servers run linuxMar 12 19:49
Balrog_(according to ballmer)Mar 12 19:50
balzachttp://www.oteltours.com/fedor...Mar 12 19:50
trmanco"Its performance suffers from the use of Mono, though: startup times are elongated as the program pulls in various Mono runtime libraries. If you regularly run other Mono programs on your desktop this isn't a big deal, as you'll normally have the relevant libraries already loaded into RAM."Mar 12 19:55
trmancohttp://www.tuxradar.com/content/group-te...Mar 12 19:55
balzachttp://www.oteltours.com/fedor...Mar 12 19:56
balzacplease, someone tell me that's not funny.Mar 12 19:56
balzacI've got to paste that link in #fedora...Mar 12 19:57
balzactag along if you want to see the reactionMar 12 19:57
trmancoLOOOLMar 12 19:58
trmancoThis is Fedoraaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Mar 12 19:58
balzac20:08 -!- balzac was kicked from #fedora by Southern_Gentlem [Southern_Gentlem]Mar 12 20:01
balzacI couldn't resist, it was just too funnyMar 12 20:01
balzacok, the joke's over and the pictures are coming downMar 12 20:03
twitterAh, Sparta and the old South, fighting for the freedom to keep slaves.Mar 12 20:03
balzacI thought the movie 300 was in bad tasteMar 12 20:08
balzacA quote from Leonidas, 300: "Persian cowards."Mar 12 20:09
balzacthe film was released in 2006 when Bush & Cheney were trying to widen the Iraq war into Iran.Mar 12 20:09
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.24.16) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 20:10
balzacso it's a little bit jingoistic as a pop-culture reference to code-name Fedora 10 "Leonidas"Mar 12 20:10
balzacCourse I never even saw the movie because I saw "Braveheart" a long time ago and it looks similar enough.Mar 12 20:11
balzachttps://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5  <-- Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as wellMar 12 20:15
balzacnothing wrong with that, but I prefer booth babes to booth-dudes.Mar 12 20:16
_Hicham_me too, I prefer babesMar 12 20:17
_Hicham_is Mark ShuttleWorth gay or what?Mar 12 20:17
balzacno ideaMar 12 20:18
balzacnot curiousMar 12 20:18
balzacbut odds are, not, just based on statisticsMar 12 20:18
_Hicham_it would have been more attractive if they have showed a guy with a girlMar 12 20:19
balzacyou never know who or how that marketing material got made. the photographer could have been a chick who really doesn't see anything suggestive at all there.Mar 12 20:19
balzac"i do it with ubuntu"Mar 12 20:19
balzac_Hicham_: to each their own.Mar 12 20:19
_Hicham_so they fuck ubuntu together :)?Mar 12 20:20
balzacbut it might make the job of marketing Ubuntu slightly more complicated by virtue of the niche-market appeal of that advertisementMar 12 20:20
balzacsame with Fedora 10 (code name Leonidas)Mar 12 20:21
MinceRisn't that 11?Mar 12 20:21
_Hicham_does it have the same ad?Mar 12 20:21
balzacbig, greasy, half-naked, bearded guy "This is FEDORAAAA!!!"Mar 12 20:21
balzacokay...Mar 12 20:21
_Hicham_where is this ad?Mar 12 20:22
balzacwhich?Mar 12 20:23
_Hicham_fedora's oneMar 12 20:23
balzacwell, I made my own to make fun of the code name "Leonidas"Mar 12 20:24
balzacI'll put it on the server again, just for laughs.Mar 12 20:24
_Hicham_what does "Leonidas" mean?Mar 12 20:24
balzachttp://www.oteltours.com/fedora_le...Mar 12 20:24
balzacspartan king, featured most recently and prominently in the movie 300 from 2006Mar 12 20:25
_Hicham_weird adMar 12 20:26
balzacit's funnyMar 12 20:27
balzachttps://usshop.ubuntu.com/tra...  <-- but this one is realMar 12 20:27
balzacas I said before, not a damn thing wrong with it... just not personally appealingMar 12 20:28
_Hicham_posting a guy and a girl is more attractive, since both sexes will be targetedMar 12 20:30
balzacprobably better for general appealMar 12 20:35
PetoKraus"to load either Linux or a full Windows OS"Mar 12 20:47
PetoKrausyou mean, virii and *ware, and all?Mar 12 20:47
PetoKrauswindows on ARMMar 12 20:47
PetoKrausLolMar 12 20:47
PetoKraus:)Mar 12 20:47
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Mar 12 20:54
twitter"Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as well"  People see what they want.  Who keeps making this homosexual stuff up?Mar 12 21:01
twitterNothing but crap shill articles in the news about Vista.Mar 12 21:10
balzactwitter: it's pretty suggestive.Mar 12 21:11
twitterIna Fried, someone at Tech Crunch who says, "I'm not a Microsoft apologist" and goes right on to tell us all about how M$ got things right with Vista, sickening.Mar 12 21:11
balzac"I do it with Ubuntu"Mar 12 21:12
twitterthere are plenty of other images on their store pages all with the same t-shirtMar 12 21:12
balzacI live in NYC where there is a large gay communityMar 12 21:12
balzacyou don't see that kind of chumminess unless dudes are gay, generally...Mar 12 21:13
twitterThe netbook lie is now, " analysts say no more than 15 to 20 percent of netbooks are running Linux"Mar 12 21:13
balzacthat and the shirt...Mar 12 21:13
twitteryeah, people in NYC are kind of stand off.  those two are not very "chummy" as far as things goMar 12 21:14
twitterno body contact, like uptight kids at a high school promMar 12 21:14
twitterthe image is all clean and corporate to meMar 12 21:15
balzacdude, the clubs are packed with dudesMar 12 21:15
balzacyou get pretty unfriendly towards other dudes after a few saturdays fighting for elbow room in NY clubsMar 12 21:15
twitterSomehow, I don't see those two at a NYC club.Mar 12 21:15
twitteror at any far less crowded club in New Orleans.Mar 12 21:16
balzacsomehow, they look a little too happy together not to be suggestive, and with the writing on the shirts...Mar 12 21:17
balzacnot saying it's bad, just saying it's niche-marketMar 12 21:17
twitterthe bald guy's smile is a little leering but it's probably just a camera faceMar 12 21:17
twitteryou've read intentions into the imageMar 12 21:17
balzaccamera's can catch you at a funny momentMar 12 21:18
balzacno, i'm not saying it was intended either, just the effectMar 12 21:18
balzacthis is just one of many such ads, most of them being people of varying age, gender, ethnicityMar 12 21:18
twitterthis is the only one anyone has ever pointed to and called "gay" from UbuntuMar 12 21:19
balzacBut here's one factor to consider - IT is dominated as an industry by dudes, most of whom are straight, so it might be a little bit of a marketing flub if general appeal is the intention.Mar 12 21:19


Recent Techrights' Posts

With 9 Mentions of Azure In Its Latest Blog Post, Canonical is Again Promoting Microsoft and Intel Vendor Lock-in, Surveillance, Back Doors, Considerable Power Waste, and Defects That Cannot be Fixed
Microsoft did not even have to buy Canonical (for Canonical to act like it happened)
Links 28/03/2024: GAFAM Replacing Full-Time Workers With Interns Now
Links for the day
Consent & Debian's illegitimate constitution
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
The Time Our Server Host Died in a Car Accident
If Debian has internal problems, then they need to be illuminated and then tackled, at the very least in order to ensure we do not end up with "Deadian"
China's New 'IT' Rules Are a Massive Headache for Microsoft
On the issue of China we're neutral except when it comes to human rights issues
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, March 27, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, March 27, 2024
WeMakeFedora.org: harassment decision, victory for volunteers and Fedora Foundations
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 27/03/2024: Terrorism Grows in Africa, Unemployment in Finland Rose Sharply in a Year, Chinese Aggression Escalates
Links for the day
Links 27/03/2024: Ericsson and Tencent Layoffs
Links for the day
Amid Online Reports of XBox Sales Collapsing, Mass Layoffs in More Teams, and Windows Making Things Worse (Admission of Losses, Rumours About XBox Canceled as a Hardware Unit)...
Windows has loads of issues, also as a gaming platform
Links 27/03/2024: BBC Resorts to CG Cruft, Akamai Blocking Blunders in Piracy Shield
Links for the day
Android Approaches 90% of the Operating Systems Market in Chad (Windows Down From 99.5% 15 Years Ago to Just 2.5% Right Now)
Windows is down to about 2% on the Web-connected client side as measured by statCounter
Sainsbury's: Let Them Eat Yoghurts (and Microsoft Downtimes When They Need Proper Food)
a social control media 'scandal' this week
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, March 26, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, March 26, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Windows/Client at Microsoft Falling Sharply (Well Over 10% Decline Every Quarter), So For His Next Trick the Ponzi in Chief Merges Units, Spices Everything Up With "AI"
Hiding the steep decline of Windows/Client at Microsoft?
Free technology in housing and construction
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
We Need Open Standards With Free Software Implementations, Not "Interoperability" Alone
Sadly we're confronting misguided managers and a bunch of clowns trying to herd us all - sometimes without consent - into "clown computing"
Microsoft's Collapse in the Web Server Space Continued This Month
Microsoft is the "2%", just like Windows in some countries
Links 26/03/2024: Inflation Problems, Strikes in Finland
Links for the day
Gemini Links 26/03/2024: Losing Children, Carbon Tax Discussed
Links for the day
Mark Shuttleworth resigns from Debian: volunteer suicide and Albania questions unanswered, mass resignations continue
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 26/03/2024: 6,000 Layoffs at Dell, Microsoft “XBox is in Real Trouble as a Hardware Manufacturer”
Links for the day
Gemini Links 26/03/2024: Microsofters Still Trying to 'Extend' Gemini Protocol
Links for the day
Look What IBM's Red Hat is Turning CentOS Into
For 17 years our site ran on CentOS. Thankfully we're done with that...
The Julian Paul Assange Verdict: The High Court Has Granted Assange Leave to Appeal Extradition to the United States, Decision Adjourned to May 20th Pending Assurances
The decision is out
The Microsoft and Apple Antitrust Issues Have Some But Not Many Commonalities
gist of the comparison to Microsoft
ZDNet, Sponsored by Microsoft for Paid-for Propaganda (in 'Article' Clothing), Has Added Pop-Up or Overlay to All Pages, Saying "813 Partners Will Store and Access Information on Your Device"
Avoiding ZDNet may become imperative given what it has turned into
Julian Assange Verdict 3 Hours Away
Their decision is due to be published at 1030 GMT
People Who Cover Suicide Aren't Suicidal
Assange didn't just "deteriorate". This deterioration was involuntary and very much imposed upon him.
Overworking Kills
The body usually (but not always) knows best
Former Red Hat Chief (CEO), Who Decided to Leave the Company Earlier This Month, Talks About "Cloud Company Red Hat" to CNBC
shows a lack of foresight and dependence on buzzwords
IRC Proceedings: Monday, March 25, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, March 25, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Discord Does Not Make Money, It's Spying on People and Selling Data/Control (38% is Allegedly Controlled by the Communist Party of China)
a considerable share exists
In At Least Two Nations Windows is Now Measured at 2% "Market Share" (Microsoft Really Does Not Want People to Notice That)
Ignore the mindless "AI"-washing
Internet Relay Chat (IRC) Still Has Hundreds of Thousands of Simultaneously-Online Unique Users
The scale of IRC