03.13.09

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:33 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

Balrog_	schestowitz: show me a good alternative	Mar 13 15:10
Balrog_	is UDF patent-encumbered or only RO?	Mar 13 15:11
*Slated has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 13 15:11
_Hicham_	Balrog : ext2ifs is great	Mar 13 15:17
_Hicham_	i use it on WinXP	Mar 13 15:18
_Hicham_	it works like a charm	Mar 13 15:18
_Hicham_	it is easy : TomTom will prompt users to install the software, which will be ext2ifs	Mar 13 15:21
_Hicham_	it is as simple as that	Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_	and everything is still FOSS	Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_	and no MS lawsuits	Mar 13 15:22
schestowitz	Balrog: “only read only?”	Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_	no	Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_	ext2ifs support writing also	Mar 13 15:22
_Hicham_	do u use it actually?	Mar 13 15:22
schestowitz	_Hicham_: MS sued over other things	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Like car navigation+something	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	One of those “with car navigation patents”	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Like “on the Internet” patents	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Or “using a device”	Mar 13 15:23
_Hicham_	what was that?	Mar 13 15:23
_Hicham_	i only read about their fat patent	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Calculating 1+1 using an apparus	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Calculating 1+1 over the Internet	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Calculating 1+1 in a car	Mar 13 15:23
schestowitz	Try this in the USPTO	Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz	Maybe if you phrase it right you’ll get a patent	Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz	_Hicham_: there are other patents (8)	Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz	Maybe Microsoft did this delibeately	Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz	To make it a bundle	Mar 13 15:24
schestowitz	I.e. if TomTom works around the FAT patent, not much is gained	Mar 13 15:25
schestowitz	They want TomTom to suffer defeat	Mar 13 15:25
schestowitz	They did this just shortly after a financial meltdown	Mar 13 15:25
schestowitz	Then they used their vile shill, Rob Enderle, to deceive	Mar 13 15:25
schestowitz	That’s Microsoft for ya!	Mar 13 15:25
schestowitz	Scummy and proud of it.. since inception.	Mar 13 15:26
schestowitz	If you compete against ‘em, sooner or later they’ll pass some laws to call you a “criminal”	Mar 13 15:26
_Hicham_	not if u avoid their technology	Mar 13 15:28
schestowitz	CNN advertises new Micrososft crony in the US administration (sort of): http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/0… (Microsoft exec appointed to DHS post)	Mar 13 15:28
schestowitz	French workers hold Sony boss hostage http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news…	Mar 13 15:34
schestowitz	UN report condemns Britain over torture cases http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/…	Mar 13 15:36
schestowitz	Why Biofuels Are the Rainforest’s Worst Enemy http://www.motherjones.com/environment/20…	Mar 13 15:37
schestowitz	UN climate chief: US carbon cuts could spark ‘revolution’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen…	Mar 13 15:38
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 15:40:36 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 13 15:40:49 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell		Mar 13 15:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged]		Mar 13 15:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008		Mar 13 15:40
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel		Mar 13 15:40
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz		Mar 13 15:40
_Hicham_	what happened Roy?	Mar 13 15:41
schestowitz	Wrong key	Mar 13 15:41
schestowitz	http://www.minnpost.com/ericblackb… Was Cheney running a “terror state”, by the very definition of “terror”?	Mar 13 15:41
schestowitz	David Cameron calls for full inquiry into Binyam Mohamed torture claims < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009… >	Mar 13 15:43
schestowitz	http://lists.essential.org/pip… “Could anyone reasonably have foreseen the consequences of a decades-long regulatory holiday for the financial sector? In a word, yes. [...] There was nothing inevitable, unavoidable or unforeseeable about the current crisis.”	Mar 13 15:45
schestowitz	http://www.physorg.com/news155333857.html “The anonymous comment on the Web site RateMDs.com was unsparing: “Very unhelpful, arrogant,” it said of a doctor. “Did not listen and cut me off, seemed much too happy to have power (and abuse it!) over suffering people.””	Mar 13 15:52
schestowitz	Stupid headline (ARM is already well ahead of x86): < http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/200… > (Analyst: ARM to surpass Atom, in 55% of netbooks by 2012)	Mar 13 15:54
schestowitz	MinceR: check out http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/03/1…	Mar 13 15:56
Balrog_	heh	Mar 13 15:58
Balrog_	someone will quickly reverse engineer the button system	Mar 13 15:58
Balrog_	I heard it just generates noise that the ipod detects	Mar 13 15:58
Balrog_	(specially organized noise )	Mar 13 15:58
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schestowitz	http://www.bisnow.com/washington_dc… hehe. wish i could reuse the image at the top, with caption….	Mar 13 16:26
schestowitz	@trmanco : “Microsoft scrambled to fix a global outage that hit its Windows Live Hotmail service for several hours on Thursday.” http://www.pcworld.com/article/161194/mi… not just gmail.	Mar 13 16:33
schestowitz	Lost Xbox 360 Worth $1,000,000? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/16120… >	Mar 13 16:35
schestowitz	Im worried about Gnome < http://blog.hyperfish.org/… >	Mar 13 16:44
Balrog_	I never had a problem with gmail down	Mar 13 16:47
schestowitz	Me neither	Mar 13 16:49
*schestowitz would never use gmail		Mar 13 16:49
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_Hicham_	Roy : why wouldnt you use gmail?	Mar 13 16:57
schestowitz	I have a permanent set of addresses that give privacy and offer many other advantages	Mar 13 16:58
schestowitz	Too many people ‘offshore’ their computing to SaaS and other complicated hosts that hold them hostage	Mar 13 16:58
schestowitz	Wow. Novell has been eerily quiet this week. Like one third of the usual news coverage it gets	Mar 13 16:59
*schestowitz goes through NOVL news ATM		Mar 13 17:00
schestowitz	Just updated this one with a good quote: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/13/mi…	Mar 13 17:00
schestowitz	MOG: “The Burton Group also points out that Oracle’s OVM links with a Red Hat kernel while Virtual Iron uses SUSE and OEMs Novell’s Platespin Migrate, suggesting that Novell will be the one to say ouch if the deal does go down.”	Mar 13 17:02
schestowitz	The Burton Group is somewhat of Microsoft shill, attacking Microsoft rivals for the wage	Mar 13 17:02
_Hicham_	Roy: can u suggest a good mail service?	Mar 13 17:03
Balrog_	certainly not hotmail	Mar 13 17:06
_Hicham_	well, i think i should deploy my own server	Mar 13 17:10
_Hicham_	it will be completely free	Mar 13 17:11
_Hicham_	it would be called GNU International Mail System	Mar 13 17:11
schestowitz	_Hicham_: no, don’t DIY	Mar 13 17:11
schestowitz	But you can get a host for a few dollars a month	Mar 13 17:11
schestowitz	You register a domain	Mar 13 17:12
schestowitz	You can move between hosts for decades, so there’s no risk associated	Mar 13 17:12
Balrog_	get a VPS	Mar 13 17:18
_Hicham_	GNU should have a mail service, no?	Mar 13 17:20
Balrog_	mail services are expensive to run	Mar 13 17:21
Balrog_	electricity isn’t free	Mar 13 17:21
_Hicham_	then companies should help	Mar 13 17:21
_Hicham_	there must a complete set of GNU alternatives	Mar 13 17:22
schestowitz	_Hicham_: maybe that exists	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	FSF sets up mail forwarders	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	But it’s not proper mail	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	The worst thing is universities that set up accounts for people	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	Then the addresses are TIED to affiliations	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	Same with working places	Mar 13 17:23
schestowitz	So when you leave, then lots of mail might be routed to /dev/null	Mar 13 17:24
schestowitz	That’s why you need a permanent address	Mar 13 17:24
schestowitz	Not FSF, not a work E-mail, not academic affiliation	Mar 13 17:24
schestowitz	These change over time	Mar 13 17:24
schestowitz	My PGP sig is still tied to an old address of mine	Mar 13 17:24
schestowitz	sch at danielsorogon.com (you can watch the site)	Mar 13 17:25
_Hicham_	and u dont use this address anymore?	Mar 13 17:25
schestowitz	I check it, but not use it	Mar 13 17:26
schestowitz	mostly spam	Mar 13 17:27
_Hicham_	there is no filters in it?	Mar 13 17:27
schestowitz	it was deprecated 5 years ago.	Mar 13 17:27
schestowitz	_Hicham_: it’s a BSD server	Mar 13 17:27
schestowitz	No cpanel, no option for forwarding	Mar 13 17:27
schestowitz	Spot-on analysts from Moody: No Mac advice as BBC team exposes…its Windows-centricity (again) < http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallife… >	Mar 13 17:33
schestowitz	sigh Unless The Register kicks Gavin Clarke, then it has become just another pro-Microsoft ‘news’ site	Mar 13 17:36
Balrog_	nothing new for BBC	Mar 13 17:36
Balrog_	they’ve done this before	Mar 13 17:36
schestowitz	Now it has some spin on “MS invested the iPod’	Mar 13 17:36
schestowitz	And it’s always Gavin	Mar 13 17:36
schestowitz	Also Linux-hostile stuff…….	Mar 13 17:36
Balrog_	MS did the zune, which went nowhere	Mar 13 17:37
schestowitz	He’s a friend of Mary jo Foley, in case that gives you a clue. Whatever happened to The Register which thought outside the box? The Microsoft deal changed everything and people do notice, even kentma1	Mar 13 17:37
schestowitz	Balrog: the Zune can’t survive	Mar 13 17:37
Balrog_	I know.	Mar 13 17:37
schestowitz	I wonder what goes though the minds of people there.	Mar 13 17:37
schestowitz	They can’t admit defeat	Mar 13 17:37
Balrog_	the Zune can’t be even used as a mass-storage device…	Mar 13 17:38
Balrog_	(neither can the ipod touch / iphone, but there are ways to access its FS)	Mar 13 17:38
schestowitz	At least they don’t spend MORE money advertising it.	Mar 13 17:38
Balrog_	mhm	Mar 13 17:38
schestowitz	Balrog_:because of FAT patents?	Mar 13 17:38
schestowitz	I love this one: Guerilla Marketer for Microsoft Zune Arrested in Austin < http://www.keathmilligan.net/node/137 >	Mar 13 17:39
Balrog_	what, the iPhone?	Mar 13 17:39
schestowitz	I hate Guerilla with passion	Mar 13 17:39
Balrog_	it has no fat, that’s true…	Mar 13 17:39
schestowitz	be it marketing or warfare	Mar 13 17:39
schestowitz	Hehe. Still funny. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-…	Mar 13 17:40
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/… “The Manchester-based company closed its doors on Tuesday, paying off staff and shutting the office, sources told The Register. The firm’s web site was still up as of last night and calls to the office are being met with an answerphone.” That’s nearby	Mar 13 17:41
schestowitz	The fiends from Edelman are paid by Walmart for their propaganda: Wal-Mart Buys PR in Bulk < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8269 > They also bribed bloggers with Vista.	Mar 13 17:44
schestowitz	Watch how drug companies filthily occupy the panels < http://www.prweekus.com/Reformspurshealthcar… > (Reform spurs healthcare groups into action)	Mar 13 17:46
Balrog_	http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p…	Mar 13 17:47
Balrog_	FOIA Request For Pending Copyright Treaty Denied	Mar 13 17:47
schestowitz	http://yro.slashdot.org/article… (w/o the trailing slash)	Mar 13 17:47
Balrog_	argh	Mar 13 17:48
Balrog_	sorry	Mar 13 17:48
schestowitz	Tobacco industry lobbies to carry on ‘killing people’: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/ne… (Tobacco Industry Blocking Global Treaty On Smoking In Asean Countries)	Mar 13 17:53
schestowitz	The tobacco industry killed many people (over 100 million probably), including part of my family and many others out there. How is it still managing to ‘lobby’?	Mar 13 17:54
schestowitz	“Shapiro is an influential industrial economist but as many of his colleagues he has a flexibility. All premium league economists know that the patent system has no sound economic foundation or they just assume it had. So economists don’t believe in the god Benamuki and witchcraft but feel it would be inappropriate and insulting to tell the aborigines so and they like their hospitality”	Mar 13 17:58
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_Hicham_	tobacco industry will never die	Mar 13 18:00
Balrog_	patents last 20 years in the US, right?	Mar 13 18:01
*Balrog has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 13 18:03
Balrog_	still here	Mar 13 18:10
Balrog_	so I’m stuck doing some windows installs	Mar 13 18:11
_Hicham_	why do u install windows?	Mar 13 18:11
Balrog_	I’m paid to do so	Mar 13 18:11
_Hicham_	great	Mar 13 18:11
Balrog_	though it’s not the main system anyway	Mar 13 18:12
_Hicham_	why do they use it?	Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_	the main system is Solaris, and Windows runs on a PCI card	Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_	we have dual-boot here	Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_	or PCI card	Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_	as I said, there are people here who like .NET	Mar 13 18:12
Balrog_	they offer several courses in VB.NET	Mar 13 18:12
_Hicham_	then install mono	Mar 13 18:13
_Hicham_		Mar 13 18:13
Balrog_	and visual studio	Mar 13 18:13
Balrog_	professors are too lazy not to use VS	Mar 13 18:13
schestowitz	Not necessarily	Mar 13 18:13
schestowitz	What I’ve learned from people is that Mcirosoft employees can cause this	Mar 13 18:13
_Hicham_	what do u suggest Roy?	Mar 13 18:13
schestowitz	And their buddies	Mar 13 18:13
schestowitz	It’s enough to have some Microsoft sympathetic people in the department to expel opposition	Mar 13 18:14
schestowitz	And to spread the Microsoft for kickbacks	Mar 13 18:14
schestowitz	Bear in mind that Microsoft bribes professors	Mar 13 18:14
schestowitz	This appeared in the press	Mar 13 18:14
Balrog_	there’s this professor that says you’re not learning the language but the methods	Mar 13 18:14
schestowitz	It would pay them $200 (cheque) just to mention Microsoft tools.	Mar 13 18:14
schestowitz	Balrog_: he’s right	Mar 13 18:15
_Hicham_	wow	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	Others who recommend otteach MS are suspect	Mar 13 18:15
_Hicham_	$200	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	They could be bribed	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	_Hicham_: yes	Mar 13 18:15
Balrog_	that’s why VS.NET is ‘ok’	Mar 13 18:15
_Hicham_	here people do it for free	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	Let me get you the link	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	In case someone disputes it	Mar 13 18:15
_Hicham_		Mar 13 18:15
Balrog_	also office is used a lot	Mar 13 18:15
Balrog_	(the MS one)	Mar 13 18:15
schestowitz	Bookmark this: http://chronicle.com/data/articles….	Mar 13 18:15
Balrog_	I see.	Mar 13 18:16
schestowitz	And you’re pemitted to ask professors if Microsoft somehow paid them	Mar 13 18:16
schestowitz	because Microsoft already has blood in its hands	Mar 13 18:16
balzac	http://img267.imageshack.us/img2…	Mar 13 18:16
schestowitz	So it’s not a void accusation	Mar 13 18:16
schestowitz	Think of it as a warrant	Mar 13 18:16
schestowitz	Or treating one with a police record	Mar 13 18:17
balzac	Roy, you’re hosting your own email on BN?	Mar 13 18:17
Balrog_	also some professors say that silverlight is ‘big’ right now	Mar 13 18:17
_Hicham_	:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D	Mar 13 18:17
Balrog_	(and flex, but SL first)	Mar 13 18:17
_Hicham_	great offer	Mar 13 18:17
schestowitz	balzac: no, but there is a catch-all mail account there.	Mar 13 18:17
schestowitz	Balrog_: also for Silver Lie	Mar 13 18:17
schestowitz	People i nthe university may be bribed	Mar 13 18:17
schestowitz	Maybe off the record	Mar 13 18:17
schestowitz	Lunchtime… hush-hush… underneath table	Mar 13 18:17
_Hicham_	this is one of the biggest funniest things that i ve ever heard	Mar 13 18:17
Balrog_	I tell them I can’t use SL on my systems, because it doesn’t work	Mar 13 18:17
balzac	what do you use for your primary email service?	Mar 13 18:18
Balrog_	they agree	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	Micfrosoft does bribe for Silver Lie	Mar 13 18:18
_Hicham_	$200	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	I’ll give you links	Mar 13 18:18
_Hicham_	hahahaha	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/0…	Mar 13 18:18
balzac	I asked RMS for a gnu.org email address but he declined.	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	I have many links in the first part	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	All external	Mar 13 18:18
schestowitz	Just follow the links. It’s a catch-all one-stop shop	Mar 13 18:18
balzac	I really think I ought to have one, even given my relative inexperience as a programmer.	Mar 13 18:19
*myRicky_cn (n=51qqhe@123.125.10.142) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 13 18:19
Balrog_	heh … adobe is even complaining	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	balzac: ask for a stallman.org address	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	Hey, myRicky_cn	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	Balrog_: rightly so	Mar 13 18:19
balzac	Roy, perhaps I will.	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	They are being ‘bribed’ out of business	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	Microsoft played such dirty tricks before	Mar 13 18:19
balzac	Or, I could get my gnewcrew.com website up and running and host my own email	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	Use deep pocket	Mar 13 18:19
balzac	gnucrew	Mar 13 18:19
balzac	.com	Mar 13 18:19
schestowitz	Tolerate shor-term losses	Mar 13 18:19
balzac	badass domain, eh?	Mar 13 18:20
schestowitz	Then try to elbow and derail competition	Mar 13 18:20
schestowitz	“tilt into death spiral.” remember?	Mar 13 18:20
schestowitz	balzac: go hardcore and buy gnucabal.org	Mar 13 18:20
balzac	perhaps not a bad idea	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	balzac: did you make the animation?	Mar 13 18:21
Balrog_	the profs say that vb.net and c# are important because they’re the basis for SL	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	One could argue that it’s racist, so I can’t use it	Mar 13 18:21
balzac	sounds more specifically like jew-core than hard-core	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	Balrog_: maybe the professors are profe$$ors	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	Maybe they profess to the wallet, I don’t know..	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	Who needs SL?	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	Why would they care?	Mar 13 18:21
schestowitz	SL is nowhere	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	MS is nearly giving up on it	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	It doesn’t sell	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	Microsoft pays for it to ‘sell’	Mar 13 18:22
Balrog_	what about if they go to a web site, and it says ‘you must install SL to use it’	Mar 13 18:22
balzac	if the word “cabal” from the word kabbala	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	“Take the money, take SL”	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	Balrog_: then complain	Mar 13 18:22
Balrog_	like that *** in spain (if I remember correctly)	Mar 13 18:22
balzac	originates ^	Mar 13 18:22
*myRicky_cn (n=51qqhe@123.125.10.142) has left #boycottnovell		Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	SL is blocking GNU/Linux, BSD, etc,	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	SL is Microsoft lockin	Mar 13 18:22
_Hicham_	svg is better	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	It’s binary cancer on the Web	Mar 13 18:22
schestowitz	It’s anti-Web	Mar 13 18:22
Balrog_	who supports svg?	Mar 13 18:22
_Hicham_	Mozilla	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	Even timbl complains about this rubbish	Mar 13 18:23
Balrog_	Safari, Firefox …	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	Microsoft is deforming his Web	Mar 13 18:23
Balrog_	probably not IE	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	tossing away HTML	Mar 13 18:23
_Hicham_	IE is just crap	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	Replacing it with secret codes	Mar 13 18:23
Balrog_	yeah. I’ve seen full web pages done in SL	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	Balrog_: who put them there?	Mar 13 18:23
_Hicham_	I even think of blocking IE users from my website	Mar 13 18:23
schestowitz	It sounds as though your faculty members have lunch with the wrong chums	Mar 13 18:23
Balrog_	<< lecture video-capture ‘solutions’	Mar 13 18:24
Balrog_	well some of them, I think	Mar 13 18:24
schestowitz	Not only do they promote dotnet, but they also force students to move this way	Mar 13 18:24
Balrog_	many push Java	Mar 13 18:24
schestowitz	e.g. with Web pages that are not Web pages	Mar 13 18:24
schestowitz	That are MS objects	Mar 13 18:24
_Hicham_	i think people in GNU should support svg	Mar 13 18:24
_Hicham_	and provide a complete replacement for flash	Mar 13 18:24
schestowitz	SVG is already supported	Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_	what about this?	Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_	http://webkit.org/blog/324/cs…	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	Microsoft stifled it..	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	I wrote about it in BN	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	Microsoft hobbles the Web	Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_	do you think it would be good to have such css-animations in the standard?	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	Unless it’s binaries MS controls	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	Or Office rendering	Mar 13 18:25
balzac	roy, I accidentally wiped one of my partitions on my notebook	Mar 13 18:25
schestowitz	They should be slammed by regulators for it really.	Mar 13 18:25
balzac	I think I lost this excellent 3d model I was building	Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_	sure they should	Mar 13 18:25
Balrog_	balzac: dd-rescue?	Mar 13 18:26
schestowitz	Balrog_: model of a model?	Mar 13 18:26
balzac	Oh well, I’ll probably do a better job next time	Mar 13 18:26
balzac	I reformatted the disk	Mar 13 18:26
Balrog_	schestowitz: Balrog or balzac?	Mar 13 18:26
schestowitz	balzac:	Mar 13 18:26
balzac	I was making this pimpin GNU avatar in 3d, kind of like the BSD devil mascot with a hot bimbo on each arm	Mar 13 18:26
balzac	but I may have lost it	Mar 13 18:26
balzac	blender is great	Mar 13 18:27
Balrog_	I hate installing windows	Mar 13 18:27
Balrog_	takes 2-3 hours, including updates	Mar 13 18:27
schestowitz	I can’t recall installing Windows	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	..	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	Many years ago I probably had some people install it for me	Mar 13 18:28
Balrog_	I installed WinME once	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	In 2000 I tried putting Win2000 on a Compaq laptop	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	It didn’t work	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	No drivers for stuff	Mar 13 18:28
schestowitz	So I went back to Win98	Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_	and then proceeded to run updates	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	Maybe it was in 2001	Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_	which blew up the system.	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	I think that’s the last time I really installed WIndows	Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_	I have a older compaq laptop running Win2K	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	Or maybe I installed Windows 98 for my sister a while later, but it was from a QuickRestore CD	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	So it’s just an image	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	Not an installation per se	Mar 13 18:29
Balrog_	Thinking about putting linux on it, but it’s slow (P3-500) and I’m not the primary user	Mar 13 18:29
schestowitz	Balrog_: Presario?	Mar 13 18:30
Balrog_	no, Armada	Mar 13 18:30
schestowitz	I was gonna suggest that	Mar 13 18:30
schestowitz	Armada/Presario	Mar 13 18:30
schestowitz	Cause Armada came just later	Mar 13 18:30
schestowitz	I wonder how handy that 400MHz AMD laptop would be now	Mar 13 18:30
schestowitz	It’s too weak to take Ubuntu	Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_	Would a researcher compromise his integrity for $200? Well, Matlab licenses cost $500, and they rely on Matlab here.	Mar 13 18:31
schestowitz	Just 32Mb of RAM	Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_	(for research)	Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_	32MB ram? won’t work	Mar 13 18:31
schestowitz	I tried Ubuntu 4.10 on it	Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_	need at least 128	Mar 13 18:31
Balrog_	That much ram is enough for Mac System 8 though	Mar 13 18:31
schestowitz	Mac sucks	Mar 13 18:31
schestowitz	Mac OS 8/9 esp.	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	(meaning 90′s era mac)	Mar 13 18:32
schestowitz	Too promitive compared to Linux	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	7 worked well	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	8/9 had its problems	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	was definitely better than linux of it’s day though	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	(usability wise)	Mar 13 18:32
Balrog_	but yeah, by 8.6-9, it really was falling apart	Mar 13 18:34
Balrog_	what do you think about faculty relying on expensive matlab?	Mar 13 18:34
*Balrog_ is now known as Balrog		Mar 13 18:36
balzac	I still have the 3d model	Mar 13 18:36
balzac	http://www.oteltours.com/Screenshot.png	Mar 13 18:36
Balrog	that’s your website?	Mar 13 18:36
balzac	of course I’m going to put some skimpy clothes on the girls and everything	Mar 13 18:37
balzac	that’s a client website	Mar 13 18:37
balzac	and it’s a 3d project I’m working on the promote gnu software	Mar 13 18:37
Balrog	ook	Mar 13 18:37
balzac	Not sure what the GNU avatar/mascot should be wearing	Mar 13 18:37
balzac	tshirt, jeans, sneakers perhaps	Mar 13 18:38
balzac	but I’m trying to market GNU software to young urban demographic – the GNU might be wearing some chains	Mar 13 18:38
schestowitz	Balrog: I was using MATLAB myself	Mar 13 18:38
Balrog	balzac: the popularity of chains is in dispute	Mar 13 18:38
balzac	the girls will be dressed up in urban casual I think. Or I could go with a biker theme	Mar 13 18:39
Balrog	schestowitz: elaborate	Mar 13 18:39
schestowitz	http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcen…	Mar 13 18:39
balzac	I want to put the GNU on a motorbike with a girl on the back of the bike. Leather-jacket wearing badass gnu.	Mar 13 18:39
schestowitz	I’ve had about 80,000 downloads of my code there.	Mar 13 18:39
schestowitz	In 2005 I was ranked 1st for my MATLAB contral contribs.	Mar 13 18:39
schestowitz	So the people there know me	Mar 13 18:39
Balrog	wow.	Mar 13 18:40
schestowitz	But I no longer use it	Mar 13 18:40
balzac	Balrog: I have different themes in mind, but the idea is that the GNU is a badass. Smoking a spliff, etc.	Mar 13 18:40
Balrog	But matlab isn’t free software …	Mar 13 18:40
Balrog	balzac: there will be a group that don’t like that	Mar 13 18:40
balzac	Balrog: sure, but I’m trying to help GNU win the popularity contest, and that means pop-culture pandering.	Mar 13 18:41
schestowitz	balzac: LL Cool G	Mar 13 18:41
schestowitz	Ladies Love cool GNU	Mar 13 18:41
balzac	I really like the GNU as a buddhist monk	Mar 13 18:41
balzac	But I’m trying to portray another side of GNU. GNU is the man now, dog. Don’t step to this, suckas get dissed.	Mar 13 18:41
Balrog	schestowitz: how does gnu octave compare to matlab?	Mar 13 18:42
schestowitz	I tried to compile it some years ago	Mar 13 18:43
schestowitz	No luv	Mar 13 18:43
balzac	Balrog: I’ll show you another one	Mar 13 18:43
schestowitz	But looking back, I’d use that instead	Mar 13 18:43
Balrog	hmm. I hear it changed a lot since a few years ago	Mar 13 18:43
schestowitz	COllagues are an issue	Mar 13 18:43
balzac	http://www.disruptech.com/c…	Mar 13 18:43
Balrog	isn’t octave code similar enough?	Mar 13 18:44
balzac	Another in the GNU-as-badass theme	Mar 13 18:44
schestowitz	Balrog: I don’t know it well enough	Mar 13 18:44
schestowitz	For basic things it’ll be great	Mar 13 18:44
balzac	RMS as a gangster	Mar 13 18:44
schestowitz	Dunno how it handles GUIs and all..	Mar 13 18:44
schestowitz	balzac: good one that!	Mar 13 18:44
Balrog	disruptech not loading	Mar 13 18:44
schestowitz	Send it to RMS	Mar 13 18:44
balzac	try again, the host is a bit sucky	Mar 13 18:45
balzac	Roy, I haven’t solicited his opinion on it	Mar 13 18:45
balzac	I don’t know if he’ll agree with my spin on things so I figure I just won’t ask for his opinion	Mar 13 18:45
schestowitz	balzac: can I repost it in BN for kicks?	Mar 13 18:45
balzac	sure	Mar 13 18:45
schestowitz	Thanks.	Mar 13 18:45
balzac	but not the 3d oen	Mar 13 18:46
balzac	it’s not close enough to finished	Mar 13 18:46
balzac	Roy, hopefully you’ll blog-roll disruptech.com. I’ll probably do some blogging there in the future.	Mar 13 18:48
balzac	actually, I’ve been wanting to syndicate BN content on disruptech.com	Mar 13 18:48
balzac	I guess you do have an RSS feed	Mar 13 18:49
schestowitz	balzac: can you do a quick favour and read http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03… ?	Mar 13 18:51
schestowitz	I think it has typos left	Mar 13 18:51
schestowitz	balzac: we don’t do blogrolls or links	Mar 13 18:51
schestowitz	Cause that leads to feelings of exclusion	Mar 13 18:51
schestowitz	Or preferential stuff.	Mar 13 18:51
schestowitz	If you blog there, then links to articles would fit well.	Mar 13 18:52
schestowitz	balzac: yes, we have RSS	Mar 13 18:52
schestowitz	You have RMS	Mar 13 18:52
balzac	Roy, I’ll take a look, but I’m not an english major. I’m better at editorial than secretarial proof-reading.	Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz	Either one is good	Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz	I hate writing.	Mar 13 18:53
balzac	Roy, I don’t mind if thin-skinned people get miffed	Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz	Well, checking it meticulously anyway	Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz	Time consuming if you strive for polish	Mar 13 18:53
balzac	But I might randomize my blog roll, or I might have them ranked as I do now.	Mar 13 18:53
_Hicham_	Roy : are u still a matlab user now?	Mar 13 18:53
schestowitz	_Hicham_: no.	Mar 13 18:54
schestowitz	I have access to it though	Mar 13 18:54
_Hicham_	do u use octave instead?	Mar 13 18:54
balzac	those guys in #ubuntu-ops banned me again	Mar 13 19:09
balzac	first I tried to /j #ubuntu and I was redirected to #ubuntu-ops	Mar 13 19:09
balzac	then they served me a ration of sh_t and banned me	Mar 13 19:10
_Hicham_	who banned u?	Mar 13 19:10
balzac	someone in #ubuntu-ops	Mar 13 19:10
balzac	I don’t take it very seriously	Mar 13 19:10
*kentma1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 13 19:11
balzac	it’s just IRC attitude	Mar 13 19:11
_Hicham_	do u have pb with the admin there?	Mar 13 19:11
balzac	well, no	Mar 13 19:11
balzac	but one or more of them have a problem with me	Mar 13 19:11
balzac	I was talking off-topic in #ubuntu	Mar 13 19:12
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balzac	then they suggested I take it to #ubuntu-offtopic	Mar 13 19:12
balzac	I took issue with the name of that channel	Mar 13 19:12
balzac	Fedora’s free-discussion channel is called #fedora-social	Mar 13 19:12
balzac	sounds more inviting doesn’t it?	Mar 13 19:12
balzac	so then one of the #ubuntu ops gets testy and bans me	Mar 13 19:13
balzac	so I joined #ubuntu-ops and questioned their testiness	Mar 13 19:13
balzac	anyway, I’m not the least be concerned or upset about it	Mar 13 19:13
_Hicham_	weird	Mar 13 19:13
balzac	Next day I went in there with the nick Dont_Tase_Me_Bro	Mar 13 19:14
balzac	so the “tased” me	Mar 13 19:14
_Hicham_	weird admins	Mar 13 19:14
balzac	actually, they didn’t, I left on my own volition after idling for a few hours and chatting intermittently	Mar 13 19:14
_Hicham_	that proves that u can’t find better than Roy	Mar 13 19:14
balzac	well, IRC ops can’t seem to keep from getting a teeny bit neurotic about things	Mar 13 19:15
_Hicham_	except for Roy	Mar 13 19:15
_Hicham_	he is really great	Mar 13 19:15
balzac	but today, I got re-routed from #ubuntu to #ubuntu-ops	Mar 13 19:15
balzac	I didn’t /j #ubuntu-ops I was routed there	Mar 13 19:15
balzac	so I felt as if I were an invited guest	Mar 13 19:15
balzac	then some small talk and another ban	Mar 13 19:15
balzac	They can’t figure out if they like me or not, I suppose	Mar 13 19:16
schestowitz	_Hicham_: I don’t use octave, no.	Mar 13 19:16
_Hicham_	schestowitz: u stopped developing scientific programs?	Mar 13 19:17
schestowitz	Pretty much so.	Mar 13 19:18
schestowitz	I’m writing about IDC at the moment	Mar 13 19:19
balzac	I got kicked from #fedora for the pic of “Lionidas” with the fedora logo used as pasties	Mar 13 19:19
benJIman	openSUSE’s offtopic channel is #opensuse-chat.	Mar 13 19:20
balzac	But I just joined #fedora-social and I had no complaints, since I was off-topic in their support channel.	Mar 13 19:20
balzac	and #fedora-social seems like an inviting name, unlike #ubuntu-offtopic	Mar 13 19:20
balzac	I’ve personally met with Abbie Hoffman and I’m facebook friends with Paul Krassner	Mar 13 19:21
balzac	so I’ve got a weird sense of humor that not everyone appreciates	Mar 13 19:21
balzac	I met Abbie Hoffman as a kid, my dad, brother and I went for a ride on his boat.	Mar 13 19:21
_Hicham_	balzac: sense of humor in a support channel?	Mar 13 19:21
balzac	why not?	Mar 13 19:22
balzac	it’s okay to step out of line once in a while	Mar 13 19:22
_Hicham_	it depends on people	Mar 13 19:22
balzac	_Hicham_: across the board, i think Freenode is incrementally becomming more utilitarian and efficient, corporatized and uptight.	Mar 13 19:23
_Hicham_	that is good	Mar 13 19:23
balzac	So I step out of line once in a while, and I don’t need to be metaphorically tased by some authoritarian IRC op.	Mar 13 19:23
_Hicham_	i dont need to talk to someone who is cold as ice	Mar 13 19:24
_Hicham_	i prefer this channel	Mar 13 19:24
_Hicham_	ubuntu channel is just crap	Mar 13 19:25
balzac	I wouldn’t say that	Mar 13 19:25
_Hicham_	there are just robots	Mar 13 19:25
balzac	lots of good support work gets done there	Mar 13 19:25
_Hicham_	it is a personal opinion	Mar 13 19:25
_Hicham_	im not talking about support	Mar 13 19:25
_Hicham_	it is too serious in there	Mar 13 19:25
_Hicham_	i didnt like it	Mar 13 19:26
balzac	some people take the job of enforcing rules with a bit too much seriousness. Espcially IRC ops, on every IRC network, in almost every channel.	Mar 13 19:26
_Hicham_	they are then wrong	Mar 13 19:26
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_Hicham_	a good sense of humor is a plus	Mar 13 19:27
balzac	I’ve been enjoying teasing them a bit	Mar 13 19:29
balzac	I’m not worried about it.	Mar 13 19:29
schestowitz	balzac: what to link this img to? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conte…	Mar 13 19:30
_Hicham_	i dont understand this image very well	Mar 13 19:30
balzac	maybe to stallman.org	Mar 13 19:31
balzac	unless he finds it distasteful	Mar 13 19:32
balzac	I’m not going to ask him about it	Mar 13 19:32
balzac	I think RMS will have a sense of humor about it, but ultimately, I’m not concerned very much either way	Mar 13 19:33
balzac	_Hicham_: ever see a movie called Godfather with Marlin Brando?	Mar 13 19:35
balzac	A mafia don	Mar 13 19:35
balzac	In NY, people wear t-shirts with the God Father logo on it, as well as scarface t-shirts	Mar 13 19:35
balzac	because they think the mafia is cool	Mar 13 19:36
tessier_	hahah….that’s funny.	Mar 13 19:36
balzac	so it’s a joke because RMS is such a benevolent guy, I’m portraying him with a different side – as a powerful guy who does not suffer fools.	Mar 13 19:36
_Hicham_	was AlPacino in Godfather?	Mar 13 19:37
balzac	It’s intended as a warning to his critics. Don’t trash-talk RMS or you may end up wearing the clown-shoes yourself.	Mar 13 19:38
balzac	maybe	Mar 13 19:38
_Hicham_	Roy : in Wikipedia, it is said that Miguel De Icaza didnt participate to the negociations before the deal	Mar 13 19:40
schestowitz	_Hicham_: he did	Mar 13 19:41
schestowitz	He even went to Microsoft trying to change it before it happened, IIRC	Mar 13 19:42
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schestowitz	Novell/MS deal.	Mar 13 19:42
_Hicham_	we should change the article then	Mar 13 19:42
schestowitz	When the deal happened he reacted in his blog as though he knew about it all along	Mar 13 19:42
_Hicham_	do u have any references?	Mar 13 19:42
schestowitz	Where is this article?	Mar 13 19:42
schestowitz	_Hicham_: I should spend time finding it	Mar 13 19:42
_Hicham_	we should contact Wikipedia to change the article	Mar 13 19:43
schestowitz	I’m not sure what to search for.	Mar 13 19:43
schestowitz	It was like 2 years ago	Mar 13 19:43
_Hicham_	coz u know that wikipedia is the main source of info	Mar 13 19:44
schestowitz	Find out who put it there in the first place	Mar 13 19:44
schestowitz	Watch article history	Mar 13 19:44
schestowitz	Maybe our source was not correct	Mar 13 19:44
schestowitz	But as I remember it, Moglen, Allison and also de Icaza (Maybe Nat Friedman also, but I’m not sure) were consulted	Mar 13 19:44
schestowitz	Miguel was against parts of the deal	Mar 13 19:45
schestowitz	AFAIK	Mar 13 19:45
_Hicham_	but Mono was started in 2001	Mar 13 19:45
_Hicham_	i dont understand	Mar 13 19:45
_Hicham_	weird	Mar 13 19:45
schestowitz	Haha	Mar 13 19:46
schestowitz	BUSTED!!!	Mar 13 19:46
schestowitz	Good to keep docs around	Mar 13 19:46
schestowitz	Right from the mouth of his buddy	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/22/m…	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	\#	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	Roy Schestowitz said,	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	May 4, 2008 at 12:25 am · Edit	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	Not true. You appear not to know the whole story. Several senior engineers, including Jeremy Allison and Miguel de Icaza, for instance, knew about this deal in advance.	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	Miguel, to his credit, even traveled to Redmond hoping to change it, IIRC, while Jeremy protested against the deal, albeit no vigorously enough (which he later regretted). He told this to us in an interview we did. It all appears in older articles from the end of 2006.	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	#	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	Dan O’Brian said,	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	May 4, 2008 at 9:10 am · Edit	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	Then, if true, You have to give Miguel a lot of credit and that there proves Miguel to not be in Microsoft’s pocket.	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	When I stated that Miguel was not informed of the deal ahead of time, I was referring to this blog post:	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	http://tirania.org/blog/ar…	Mar 13 19:47
schestowitz	After re-reading, he notes that he was told less than a week in advance of the announcement.	Mar 13 19:47
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_Hicham_	I don’t why they didn’t chose to support others platforms	Mar 13 19:58
_Hicham_	like Java for instance	Mar 13 19:58
_Hicham_	microsoft itself uses Java	Mar 13 19:58
Omar87	http://www.tgdaily.com/con…	Mar 13 20:04
Omar87	Personally, I believe the only way we should communicate with MS is through swords and gunpowder.	Mar 13 20:04
Omar87	And the only solution between us and MS, is to see MS burning to the grownd and Gates and Ballmer in jail.	Mar 13 20:04
schestowitz	What has Negroponte become?? “Negroponte told ZDNet UK via email. “By then, I am convinced Microsoft will have Windows on the ARM.” http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000…	Mar 13 20:05
schestowitz	Is he trying to push Microsoft into Linux-only turf?	Mar 13 20:05
schestowitz	it’s like he’s turning OLPC into some kind of MS-enabler	Mar 13 20:05
Omar87	schestowitz: or, what do you think?	Mar 13 20:06
schestowitz	Omar87: I heard bad things from someone who met Sam Ramji	Mar 13 20:06
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Omar87	schestowitz: regarding what?	Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz	“He is such a traitor, a sneak thief, a provocateur, a spy, an infiltrator.”	Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz	He tried to sneak into their LUGs too	Mar 13 20:07
Omar87	Gates?	Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz	That’s Microsoft for ya.	Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz	A bunch of turncoats	Mar 13 20:07
schestowitz	And people trying to hijack your group like they did with ISO and others…	Mar 13 20:08
Omar87	Yeah, so you do agree with my opinion?	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	Not with the violent parts	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	Cause that’s not diplomatic	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	I think we need people with dignity running things	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	Item 1 on the agenda:	Mar 13 20:08
_Hicham_	We should develop a virus for Windows that install Linux by force	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	Dismantle criminal companies	Mar 13 20:08
_Hicham_	that is a good way	Mar 13 20:08
schestowitz	Blackwater, Intel, Microsoft, tobacco industry, etc.	Mar 13 20:09
MinceR	that would show us as criminals	Mar 13 20:09
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MinceR	it would be better if a virus would be developed for windows that can’t be traced to our community	Mar 13 20:09
schestowitz	Haha.	Mar 13 20:09
Omar87	schestowitz: By “Swords and Gunpowder, and burning to the ground”… I meant the competition.	Mar 13 20:09
schestowitz	Well, that’s not displomaic either	Mar 13 20:09
schestowitz	It’s also against the law	Mar 13 20:09
MinceR	with disastrous effects — that would force people to think about where they put their trust with regards to security	Mar 13 20:09
MinceR	and why security is important	Mar 13 20:09
schestowitz	Let them besiege themselves with the 1,000,000+ viruses they already have	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	mewonders how much RAM is consumed by Norton et al just catchijng virus sigs	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	*caching	Mar 13 20:10
Omar87	No, diplomacy with MS would work, only showing the world how much they’ve suffocated innovation would.	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	Omar87: yes	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	That’s what BN is about	Mar 13 20:10
MinceR	diplomacy — only aggressive negotiations can work with them	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	Let people discover what they should	Mar 13 20:10
MinceR	“negotiation with a lightsaber”	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	Microsoft has an extended family	Mar 13 20:10
schestowitz	Inc. Novell	Mar 13 20:10
Omar87	schestowitz: Exactly, that’s part of what I mean by “Swords and Gunpowder”	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	and IDC. I wrote about it minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/200…	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	Omar87: not quite	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	I think about truth versus crime	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	Let them fight with crime (swords and gun powder)	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	I am gonna publish a post about their latest smear campaign	Mar 13 20:11
Omar87	schestowitz: Oh come on! I mean Novell ain’t no threat. It’s one stupid pathetic insect!	Mar 13 20:11
schestowitz	A Microsoft CEO personally attacked a critic	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	He contacted the person’s boss	Mar 13 20:12
_Hicham_	no, we should be more aggressive	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	Tried to get him fired or something	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	That’s what I call white-collar crime	Mar 13 20:12
_Hicham_	personally, I liked Mozilla policy on spreading Firefox	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	And by exposing thbe truth we can fight it	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	Causing Microsoft even more damage	Mar 13 20:12
MinceR	novell is part of m$ and thus it’s part of the threat	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	The person (victim) wants it published	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	But I need to anonymise	Mar 13 20:12
schestowitz	Rather, to hide the identity	Mar 13 20:12
_Hicham_	I like also how Ubuntu is acting	Mar 13 20:13
_Hicham_	sending you linux for free	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	_Hicham_: Microsoft has a policy too	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	Spread Fire	Mar 13 20:13
_Hicham_	and organizing install parties	Mar 13 20:13
_Hicham_	these install parties are great	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	Also for social reasons	Mar 13 20:13
_Hicham_	that is a good way to spead things	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	The political system has voluntarily entablish a society that is divided	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	It makes people helpless	Mar 13 20:13
schestowitz	They know they get screwwed	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	They can’t really do anything about it	Mar 13 20:14
_Hicham_	Microsoft is giving their products for free for students	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	They are kept isolated	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	So no voice	Mar 13 20:14
_Hicham_	MSVC for free	Mar 13 20:14
_Hicham_	and others star products	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	Effort is devised/used by govts to suppress groupings too	Mar 13 20:14
Omar87	Guys, ya know something?	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	Daemonising them sometimes	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	This way, asking for change becomes too hard	Mar 13 20:14
schestowitz	But all changes likle end of racism or sexism came through organising	Mar 13 20:15
Omar87	I personally think that Ubuntu has pwned Windoze a loooo..oong time ago.	Mar 13 20:15
schestowitz	Some blood was spilled (of those who organised)	Mar 13 20:15
_Hicham_	Omar87: not yet	Mar 13 20:15
schestowitz	So anyway, GNU or LUGs are organisations	Mar 13 20:15
schestowitz	LUGs file group complaints sometimes	Mar 13 20:15
schestowitz	That’s why they are powerful	Mar 13 20:15
schestowitz	EFF…	Mar 13 20:15
Omar87	Can’t you see? It has achieved in two years, what MS has failed to achieve in a whole decade.	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	Omar87: no, Microsoft clogs up the system	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	In Jordan too	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	They have people who turn it into ‘client state’	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	So that colleges give ‘free’ Office training	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	And maybe dump free copies	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	A responsible educator won’t do that	Mar 13 20:16
Omar87	schestowitz: You meant especially in Jordan.	Mar 13 20:16
schestowitz	But Microsoft uses dinners/lunch/favours/money/whatever to charm people.	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	That’s just how it works	Mar 13 20:17
_Hicham_	personally I don’t help people with Office	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	And they build a stranglehold on the ‘system’ (educatioal in thuis case)	Mar 13 20:17
_Hicham_	I advise them to use OpenOffice.org	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	So you must break down their strctures of cronyism first)	Mar 13 20:17
Omar87	_Hicham_: Same here.	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	Expose them, demote them	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	Show who they are	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	Who they serve	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	The LUG can do it	Mar 13 20:17
schestowitz	JUST can investigate and write letters	Mar 13 20:18
Omar87	_Hicham_: Every time someone asks me how to solve a problem with windoze, I directly say: “Use Linux”.	Mar 13 20:18
schestowitz	Omar87: that’s decent	Mar 13 20:18
schestowitz	Others do it too	Mar 13 20:18
schestowitz	Or…	Mar 13 20:18
schestowitz	I’d help you if you move to Free software	Mar 13 20:18
schestowitz	If Micfrosoftg s/w breaks…	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	Then they need to fix it	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	Its their fault	Mar 13 20:19
_Hicham_	a professor asked us to give him a homework in PDF format. The students asked me what will produce PDFs from Word : I told them : OpenOffice will create and even modify PDFs	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	You’re not their support guy	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	They already have billions that they made through crime	Mar 13 20:19
Omar87	Yes.	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	With bad systems	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	Bad engineering	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	They rely on ‘free’ support	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	People ‘fixing’ viruses	Mar 13 20:19
schestowitz	People ‘fixing’ by reinstalling WIndows	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	Rather than GNU/Linux	Mar 13 20:20
_Hicham_	Roy : what do u think if websites stop supporting IE?	Mar 13 20:20
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	And I bet you they obstruct dual-booting in OEMs where you are	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	Dual-booting = same cost as Windows-only	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	I.e. added value	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	Microsoft doesn’t allow it though	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	Strangulation, EULAs, etc.	Mar 13 20:20
schestowitz	That ought to be illegal	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	Microsoft was taken to court	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	It bribed its way out	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	And it hasn’t even paid what it promise	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	E.g. in Californian schools	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	Microsoft still owes a lot of monet in fine	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	It also evades tax	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	And it’s entering debt	Mar 13 20:21
schestowitz	So the public may never see this money that Microsoft stole through crime and price-fixing	Mar 13 20:22
schestowitz	Which pretty much sums up the reason the American ecnomy is in its current shape	Mar 13 20:22
schestowitz	No regulation	Mar 13 20:22
schestowitz	Clowns running the DOJ, FTC, and SEC	Mar 13 20:22
Omar87	schestowitz: Where can one find the truths about Gates spending a couple billions to improve schools and education? Because personally I don’t buy any of the crap I’ve heard about it.. -_-	Mar 13 20:23
_Hicham_	Omar87: where do u live?	Mar 13 20:24
Omar87	_Hicham_: Jordan, but I’m kind of interested in proving that Gates is such a user, backstabber, and an a&^hole.	Mar 13 20:26
*amarsh04 has quit (Connection timed out)		Mar 13 20:27
schestowitz	Omar87: you can find a lot about Gates ‘improving’ things (for gains)	Mar 13 20:27
schestowitz	E.g.	Mar 13 20:28
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/3…	Mar 13 20:28
*mib_5othgy (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-57d7fff127532897) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 13 20:28
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_Hicham_	Gates is just spying on people	Mar 13 20:28
_Hicham_	I read that one of the basic windows libraries ( advapi32.dll ) is filled with spyware	Mar 13 20:29
_Hicham_	you can’t find a single program not using advapi32.dll	Mar 13 20:30
trmanco	Advertisment API 32 (dot) DLL	Mar 13 20:30
_Hicham_	according to a british researcher, this library contains a secret “NSA Key”	Mar 13 20:31
Omar87	_Hicham_: What freaks you out even more is that there actually idiots out there who believe he even cares about what happens to the world.	Mar 13 20:31
_Hicham_	this was busted when a programmer forgotten to eliminate the debug strings in the dll	Mar 13 20:31
schestowitz	_Hicham_: no need for “according to”	Mar 13 20:32
schestowitz	The back doors are fact	Mar 13 20:32
Omar87	_Hicham_: That’s nothing new, they’ve clearly stated it in their EULA.	Mar 13 20:32
schestowitz	gartner and MS got together and confessed over a year ago	Mar 13 20:32
schestowitz	Also see http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04…	Mar 13 20:32
schestowitz	Omar87: Microsoft is allowed to change your sw over the network at any time	Mar 13 20:33
schestowitz	It’s in the EULA indeed	Mar 13 20:33
Omar87	schestowitz: Yeah.	Mar 13 20:33
schestowitz	Slated ( [H]omer_ ) has this: http://slated.org/windows_xp…	Mar 13 20:34
schestowitz	Feel free to share with people	Mar 13 20:34
schestowitz	So that they know what they agree to cope with whenever they ‘buy’ (read: forced to buy) Windows	Mar 13 20:34
Omar87	schestowitz: And remember, you’re the one who gave them the permission to do that, by agreeing to their EULA when buying windoze, in the first place.	Mar 13 20:34
*amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-83-15.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 13 20:35
schestowitz	BBC zombie caper slammed by security pros < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2… >	Mar 13 20:35
_Hicham_	Roy : how wine accomplished binary compatibility with Windows without infringing the EULA?	Mar 13 20:38
Omar87	schestowitz: By “you’re”, I meant the end-user in general of course. Don’t get me wrong.	Mar 13 20:38
schestowitz	Arrrrr… http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/13/sw…	Mar 13 20:38
schestowitz	Omar87: yes, I know.	Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz	_Hicham_: they might infringe, I think	Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz	But the EULA may be against the law	Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz	It was never upheld or challenged in court	Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz	It’s seen as legally dubious in the UK	Mar 13 20:39
_Hicham_	Roy : why MS didn’t sue them then?	Mar 13 20:39
schestowitz	_Hicham_: stirring up troible	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	Sue who\|?	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	Which company?	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	It’s code	Mar 13 20:40
Omar87	schestowitz: Yes, which makes things even worse for the end-user.	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	When companies grow big, they become the law	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	And you must be rich to keep standing in court against them	Mar 13 20:40
_Hicham_	Roy : sue the Wine developers	Mar 13 20:40
schestowitz	Because the legal system too is warped	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	_Hicham_: they won’t go there.	Mar 13 20:41
_Hicham_	since they are disassembling Windows	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	Unless they want to due even faster than SCO	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	They already suffer from the attack on TomTOm	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	They do damage controll ATM	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	Some people dump Windows because of htis	Mar 13 20:41
schestowitz	And it shows how miserable Microsoft is (i.e. perception of fragility)	Mar 13 20:42
_Hicham_	the last thing I needed Windows for was my Webcam driver	Mar 13 20:42
_Hicham_	but now it is officially in the kernel	Mar 13 20:42
schestowitz	You can buy Linux-compatible webcams	Mar 13 20:43
schestowitz	Let the ones that don’t support Linux just rot away	Mar 13 20:43
schestowitz	Evolve or die	Mar 13 20:43
schestowitz	Some companies found this out the hard way	Mar 13 20:43
_Hicham_	Here in Morocco, there is no company that sells Linux Laptops	Mar 13 20:43
_Hicham_	Everything is for Windows	Mar 13 20:44
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-168-48.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 13 20:44
_Hicham_	even our professors use pirated software	Mar 13 20:44
_Hicham_	a professor was teaching us Latex, and he gave us a pirated software, even if there is better open source alternatives	Mar 13 20:44
_Hicham_	the software is WinEdit	Mar 13 20:45
_Hicham_	I found better ones, like the terrific TeXnicCenter	Mar 13 20:45
schestowitz	I know people who use it	Mar 13 20:45
schestowitz	I use Kate for LaTeX	Mar 13 20:45
_Hicham_	and of course, WineFish on Linux	Mar 13 20:45
schestowitz	But front ends like LyX are better	Mar 13 20:45
_Hicham_	LyX is not technically LaTeX	Mar 13 20:46
schestowitz	Hehe.”Winefish”	Mar 13 20:46
schestowitz	Never heard of it	Mar 13 20:46
_Hicham_	Really?	Mar 13 20:46
schestowitz	Yes	Mar 13 20:46
tessier_	LyX has been around for a LONG time.	Mar 13 20:46
schestowitz	Sounds like an aquarium I’d love to drink	Mar 13 20:46
tessier_	I used it to write a couple of papers back in university around 1995.	Mar 13 20:46
schestowitz	tessier: I’ve used Lyx since 2001	Mar 13 20:47
schestowitz	It still gets better	Mar 13 20:47
_Hicham_	winefish is the most used on linux i think	Mar 13 20:47
schestowitz	In Mandriva it’s a tickbox away	Mar 13 20:47
schestowitz	twitter: was it using qt back then?	Mar 13 20:47
schestowitz	http://winefish.berlios.de/	Mar 13 20:47
schestowitz	Is it linked to Schillix?	Mar 13 20:48
_Hicham_	i dont know	Mar 13 20:48
schestowitz	Joerg?	Mar 13 20:48
schestowitz	BerliOs at the bottom	Mar 13 20:48
schestowitz	Solaris	Mar 13 20:48
_Hicham_	it is a berlios project	Mar 13 20:48
schestowitz	Never mind	Mar 13 20:49
_Hicham_	but it is great	Mar 13 20:49
schestowitz	It’s something else	Mar 13 20:49
*amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 13 20:49
schestowitz	Schillix is just hosted under something..	Mar 13 20:49
schestowitz	http://developer.berlios.de/…	Mar 13 20:49
_Hicham_	winefish with TeXlive is just terrific	Mar 13 20:50
_Hicham_	super fast	Mar 13 20:50
schestowitz	I’d hate to write tables without preview	Mar 13 20:50
schestowitz	In KDE it’s really nice	Mar 13 20:50
_Hicham_	Roy : it is not that necessary to preview	Mar 13 20:50
_Hicham_	i used to think like that	Mar 13 20:50
schestowitz	With Lyx, once you regen (with cache and all making it instant), well… KDE’sKonqueror senses changes to files and then reloads the preview in KPDF	Mar 13 20:51
_Hicham_	but with latex, things are different	Mar 13 20:51
schestowitz	So you get nice previews while you type in WYSIWYG	Mar 13 20:51
_Hicham_	same thing in GNOME	Mar 13 20:51
schestowitz	_Hicham_: I don’t descend to TeX much anymore. it’s slower	Mar 13 20:51
schestowitz	I can do raw TeX blockss in LyX or export	Mar 13 20:51
schestowitz	I used to even edit .tex files by hand	Mar 13 20:52
schestowitz	Oops.	Mar 13 20:52
schestowitz	I mean lyx file	Mar 13 20:52
schestowitz	*files	Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_	but it is great	Mar 13 20:52
schestowitz	Very clean layout they have..	Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_	with tex, you focus on content	Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_	not on the layout	Mar 13 20:52

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