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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 19th, 2008

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PetoKraus 19 07:02
PetoKrauswheeeeJun 19 07:03
schestowitzI downloaded it, but not run it yet. I have to resolve some stuff.Jun 19 07:07
PetoKrausi downloaded it onlyJun 19 07:07
PetoKrausi don't even intend to use it/compile itJun 19 07:07
schestowitzTo /dev/null/?Jun 19 07:08
PetoKrausnot until it goes into stable portage tree :)Jun 19 07:08
schestowitzWell, it's the thing with repos. We're spoiled. :-) Linux users get their software down the tube.Jun 19 07:08
PetoKrausi don't see a problem with that.Jun 19 07:09
PetoKrausthough MANY users whacked their system using third-party installs....Jun 19 07:09
schestowitzReally? How so? And BTW, some opportunists are already reporting a flaw (as if they only 'just' found it). Timing for sabotage and hype, of course.Jun 19 07:13
PetoKrauswell, especially on deb-based systems, on your custom-compiled or untarred packagesJun 19 07:18
PetoKrausapt-get tends to overwrite files without notice.Jun 19 07:19
schestowitzA couple of years ago, in a conference called Toorcoon (or something like that) a guy lied to the press about Firefox security. It did a lot of damage. Later it turned out that  the conference was sponsored by Microsoft.Jun 19 07:23
PetoKrausright, should restart my X's after some updates, brbJun 19 07:34
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schestowitzDoes it work?Jun 19 07:35
PetoKrausyesJun 19 07:35
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schestowitzPerformance? I wonder if OpenSUSE comes with 2.0.x. I suppose I could check. What were Ubuntu's developers thinking when they put a beta in an LTS. With altered schedules from Mozilla, they should have delayed or gone back to 2.Jun 19 07:38
kentm1You dont' like Firefox 3?Jun 19 07:40
schestowitzI haven't used it yet. You?Jun 19 07:41
schestowitzIt's just that OpenSUSE 11.0 is out today (just a couple of days after FF3 final).Jun 19 07:42
kentm1Me, yes, I do rather like it, all in all.  It seems quicker to load and more responsive generally that FF2, although the extensions haven't caught up yet.Jun 19 07:43
schestowitzThat's just why I don't use it yet. Memory and speed are important (esp. on my antiquated PCs), but the extensions save a lot of time, too.Jun 19 07:44
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kentm2If you're very dependent on particular extentions, I'd stick with FF2 until there are updates for FF3 available - it's good, but not worth leaving your toolkit behind for.Jun 19 07:46
schestowitzI think of it as tool_box_ :-) Same with Konqueror.Jun 19 07:47
kentm2Quite!Jun 19 07:51
PetoKraus:) extensions...Jun 19 07:52
PetoKrausi learned to live without them, kind of.Jun 19 07:52
PetoKrausthe only feature i was using quite extensively was... rss reader in FFxJun 19 07:53
PetoKrausbut Liferea is much much better.Jun 19 07:53
schestowitzYes, I use Thunderbird now. RSSOwl development has been slow.Jun 19 07:54
kentm2I'm on evolution for mail, as it has an outlook connector capability which is useful for $employer, as well as imap & pop.  In theory it can do usenet, but I've not been able to get that working satisfactorily yet.Jun 19 07:55
PetoKrausheh. Evolution is a bit big for my needs. I tended to use it's calendar, but it had quite huge memory leaks. So, I switched to SunbirdJun 19 07:56
PetoKraus(which is the calendar only)Jun 19 07:56
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kentm2It's huge, I agree, but I needed the outlook integration, so it does the job for me.Jun 19 07:57
kentm2I can also sync with scheduleworld and then onto my motorola phone, which is also useful - I travel about an enormous amount!Jun 19 07:58
schestowitzEarlier today I saw a new video about people's face integrated in Evolution.Jun 19 07:58
kentm2not physically, I hope :-)Jun 19 07:58
schestowitzNovell will accept Mono extensions to it on the face of it. It could get tained.Jun 19 07:58
kentm2that would be bad indeed.Jun 19 07:58
schestowitzBut it was discussed before. The Mono developers deny it all.Jun 19 07:59
schestowitzThe trouble is that they get more and more people 'addicted' to Mono software.Jun 19 07:59
schestowitzOnly Novell offers its /paying/ customer 'protection' for use of Mono.Jun 19 07:59
kentm2it's a nasty scam, I agreeJun 19 08:00
schestowitzI've just been thinking.. randomly because I glanced at something.Jun 19 08:01
schestowitzThere are so many Microsoft 'former' employees taking over the OSS world.Jun 19 08:01
schestowitzOpenLogic, Black Duck, Stephen Walli and his software patent from Microsoft days... it's an abomination and too many people are blind to itJun 19 08:02
kentm2We must have faith in the GPL, my son ...Jun 19 08:02
schestowitz.I posted a pointer to LXer about it and some agree with me totally given the evidence that I shared. Then there's this other 'breed' of insiders who are not former Softies, but are Microsoft partners in many ways. Ximian for starters.Jun 19 08:02
schestowitzThat's the issue, you see.Jun 19 08:03
kentm2I agree, although I think it's way too late to stop GPLed software, now.  The question really is about how businesses rearrange their business models in order to survive in the GPLed world.Jun 19 08:03
schestowitzPeople like Walli and other Microsoft 'insiders' discourage OSS companies when they want to pick GPLv3 for all I can tell. They befriend the 'community' and then have it misguided.Jun 19 08:03
schestowitzI know this because I've seen it, received reports and wrote about it.Jun 19 08:04
kentm2Abuse of the patent system is clearly a part of the new model for many companies!Jun 19 08:04
schestowitzWell, it's a crime for all I can tell in the sense that people change the law (illegally) so that they can then call 'us' criminals.Jun 19 08:04
kentm2GPLv3 is very very good overall, but it's hitting a second set of doubters. even in the foss community.  You'll recall how out of control some people became even in Cola (spike  & peter k both spring to mind)Jun 19 08:05
schestowitzImagine this: the law forbids you from cheating (e.g. briibing for ISO rubber stamps), so you then corrupt the whole system to the point where you can squeeze in something GPL-hostile and essentially build fences around a broken syste,Jun 19 08:05
schestowitzSpeaking of which, ISO was sort of captured by Microsoft, you know? Key people fled.Jun 19 08:05
schestowitzSame thing in Yahoo at the moment. Microsoft is -- to put it bluntly -- like some sort of disease that expels the healthy tissue and replaces it with an aliment.Jun 19 08:06
schestowitzLook at Novell.Jun 19 08:06
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schestowitzSamba left...Jun 19 08:06
schestowitzWho came? Novell is hiring .NET developers. It's like transformation/reformation in progress.Jun 19 08:06
kentmaI hope Neelie Kroes doesn't retire too soon!Jun 19 08:07
schestowitzNovell becomes a host or servant of Microsoft's needs. It's a Trust(R), just like with Xen and Citrix.Jun 19 08:07
schestowitzShe can be replaced.Jun 19 08:07
schestowitzTo be honest with you, she doesn't seem to understand technical issues (she deals with a diversity of problems, so I can't blame here)Jun 19 08:07
kentmaI'm not sure that the EU is so infiltrated by US companies as the US government and legal system seems to be.Jun 19 08:08
schestowitzShe fell for the swpatent/RAND scam not so long ago.Jun 19 08:08
kentmaTrue, but she *does* seem to understand lock-in, now, so I think that she's been educated.  When I first started travelling the world, talking about vendor lock-in, about 3-4 years ago, nobody seemed to know what I was talking about.  Now, everyone's talking about it - so we really can make progress if we keep highlight the *facts*.Jun 19 08:09
schestowitzShe let Microsoft take advantage of her misunderstanding and I sometimes think she cannot distinguish Free software from open standards. Again, to her credit, she deals with quite a few different fields, so it's fair enough. She handles lots of telecom problems.Jun 19 08:09
kentmaUnfortunately, she didn't see that one coming.  One of my major problems with rand is that the name is highly misleading - it's anything but reasonable, and it most certainly is discriminatory, at least against foss, anyway.  This is about education, of course, but she does seem to be learning more and more!Jun 19 08:12
schestowitzOkay, here is what I know...Jun 19 08:12
schestowitzI wrote about this at the time and I think she was told about the mistake by her advisors. When she made the agreement with Ballmer she was alone, so she probably didn't recognise the fact that she gave swpats the nod in a continent that bans them! It's like a gradual introduction/expansion, you see? I think that Homer explained pretty well why RAND ain't reasonably at all.Jun 19 08:13
schestowitzReasonable = Genuine = Secure = Advantage... all just misleading memes.Jun 19 08:14
schestowitz'Protect' the 'inventor'... inter-operabiility (whatever happened to standards?)Jun 19 08:14
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kentmaokay, I've put some permanent routes in, so it should stop switching outbound adsl lines now...Jun 19 08:36
kentmaI hope.Jun 19 08:36
schestowitzWhen IRC was conceived, it probably assumed one ISP per person, per session. :-)Jun 19 08:38
kentmayeah, I know.  I find the same thing with a lot of p2p services, they really struggle with me having two dsl lines, and therefore two IP addresses.Jun 19 08:39
kentmaI really must write a better script or even a babygramme to set up the routing profiles, though, it's just a very very long bash script at the moment, it's crying out for at least an array!Jun 19 08:39
*kentma off, back soon.Jun 19 08:41
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schestowitzThis one is stoopid [sic]: Microsoft has a miniscule market share of about 1% in this area, yet the writer covers the story by focusing on Windows.Jun 19 11:06
schestowitzAnd then there's the old anti-iPhone FUD from Partner Group: (like Windows Mobile, which is confirmed to have a back door, is any 'safer')Jun 19 11:08
schestowitzNew blog post from  de Icaza: Headline is: "Hanging out at Microsoft"Jun 19 11:09
kentmaperhaps he'll stay?Jun 19 11:48
kentmaI mean remain, of course.Jun 19 11:49
schestowitzHe's harmful to FOSS no matter who pays the check.Jun 19 11:49
kentmaagreed, but he'd lose some more air-cover if he remained.Jun 19 11:50
schestowitzme off to the gymJun 19 11:51
kentmaenjoy!Jun 19 11:51
schestowitzBe back in a few hours.Jun 19 11:51
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taqdudes, morningJun 19 13:24
taqare you awake? :-)Jun 19 13:28
taqschestowitz ?Jun 19 13:35
[H]omerHe's at the gym (see above)Jun 19 14:07
[H]omerAlso, I'm not here either :)Jun 19 14:07
taqOh. :-)Jun 19 14:07
[H]omer;)Jun 19 14:07
taqI'm curious if Row saw this: 19 14:08
[H]omerDoesn't surprise me. De Icaza is practically a Microsoft employee these daysJun 19 14:09
taqYeah, maybe now we can face him this way finally.Jun 19 14:09
[H]omerActually most people already do.Jun 19 14:09
taqthe worst thing on this history is some people call him "Free Software friend"Jun 19 14:09
taqmaybe now everything goes to a clear way. it's more honest.Jun 19 14:10
EruaranHelloJun 19 14:11
EruaranI have those dialoguesJun 19 14:11
taqwhat dialogues?Jun 19 14:12
EruaranExamples of how Office 2007 treats open documentsJun 19 14:12
[H]omerCheck this old article: 19 14:13
[H]omerNice photoJun 19 14:13
[H]omerOr this: 19 14:14
taqOh, I thought it was the icaza dialogues on m$ today. :-)Jun 19 14:15
[H]omerYup, Miguel loves the Vole. No question.Jun 19 14:17
EruaranWhat some would call a 'useful idiot'Jun 19 14:18
EruaranUseful to MicrosoftJun 19 14:19
taqWill be a relief if he finally will work there or m$ buy novell. At least a clear situation.Jun 19 14:20
Eruaran'what Microsoft were saying resonated very deeply with us' *shudder*Jun 19 14:20
EruarantrueJun 19 14:20
EruaranI'm not sure Microsoft will 'buy' NovellJun 19 14:21
EruaranNovell is pretty useful as it isJun 19 14:21
EruaranIt would be less useful to Microsoft if Novell was officially a subsidiaryJun 19 14:22
taqsame thing for icaza, while he stands for "free software friend"Jun 19 14:22
taqbut I think there is a point of saturationJun 19 14:22
taqwhere will be better make a clear gameJun 19 14:23
[H]omerThis is probably the most sickening boot licking de Icaza's ever done: 19 14:26
[H]omerPage says you "need Silverlight" to view the contentJun 19 14:27
[H]omerRubbishJun 19 14:27
[H]omerTry this with VLC: mms:// 19 14:27
EruaranI heard today that people may need Silverlight if they want to watch the Olympics onlineJun 19 14:27
[H]omerYes, the disease of Silverlight is starting to spreadJun 19 14:28
EruaranI think that picture of Icaza with "Install Microsoft Silverlight" plastered across it says it all.Jun 19 14:29
[H]omerYupJun 19 14:30
EruaranLooks to me like a two pronged strategyJun 19 14:30
EruaranEither a) Freeze users of free software like GNU/Linux out of multimedia on the web, or b) Get them dependant upon a patent bombJun 19 14:32
[H]omerThis one makes me laugh: 19 14:32
[H]omer"At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately(sic)"Jun 19 14:32
[H]omerYeah, I bet.Jun 19 14:33
EruaranI find it diffucult to believe this guy is not actually on Ballmers payrollJun 19 14:34
taqhe's for years but does not have the gut to admit itJun 19 14:35
taqright now I bet he's trying to kiss ballmer thereJun 19 14:36
EruaranLOL I can't even sign up to comment on that site without a "Windows Live ID"Jun 19 14:36
EruaransheeshJun 19 14:36
EruaranBecause multimedia is more or less not an issue on Linux anymore, I think Microsoft wants to either make it an issue again, or infect the community with a dependance on Microsoft plugins.Jun 19 14:37
EruaranOver which there are legal questions.Jun 19 14:37
EruaranI'm sure Ballmer thinks, "perfect"Jun 19 14:38
EruaranAnd the masses are stupid enough to fall for it.Jun 19 14:38
kentmaWell, maybe not so much stupid, but ignorant.Jun 19 14:45
EruaranWell you know the corny lineJun 19 14:50
Eruaranfool me once, shame on youJun 19 14:50
Eruaranfool me twice, shame on meJun 19 14:50
Eruaranor something like thatJun 19 14:50
kentmaIgnornance is one of those herd things, isn't it?  There's quite an anti-education culture here amongst the mainstream.Jun 19 14:51
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EruaranIcaza reminds me of Anakin SkywalkerJun 19 14:58
kentmaWhat, sort of stupid?Jun 19 14:58
EruaranlolJun 19 14:58
kentmaBill G:  "Miguel, I am your father!"Jun 19 14:58
EruaranWhat Obi Wan says to him rings true, "you have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind until you have become part of the very thing you swore to destroy"Jun 19 14:59
EruaranI think the "part of" bit is wrongJun 19 14:59
kentmaheheJun 19 14:59
EruaranIts true though, you read his gnome history and him going on about how Qt was non-free and the attitude of KDE devs at the time not seeming to careJun 19 15:00
EruaranHim going on about free softwareJun 19 15:00
EruaranAnd now look at him, Mr "Install Microsoft Silverlight".Jun 19 15:01
kentmaHe's clearly shifted his position.  It's a shame that people are so easily bought.Jun 19 15:01
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EruaranHe could, and would argue his projects are still free... but he knows they are really patent encumbered non-free frankensteins, and licenced only through Microvell.Jun 19 15:04
kentmaHe's not stupid, he knows very well what he's done.  I don't know how such people sleep at night.Jun 19 15:06
EruaranMe neither.Jun 19 15:07
schestowitz<Eruaran>, I'm back now. Thanks for taking the screenshoits.Jun 19 15:37
schestowitzThe item about it made the blogroll of he OOo guys, so it's not too late to add a nice picture that says it all (like "Install Microsoft Silverlight".)Jun 19 15:38
schestowitzOh my god!Jun 19 15:41
schestowitzJust found something spooky,.Jun 19 15:48
EruaranDo you want me to send those files to you ?Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue1.png (12145 bytes)Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue2.png (11752 bytes)Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue3.png (12871 bytes)Jun 19 15:50
Eruaran3 dialoguesJun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran []Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue3.png from Eruaran complete [6435 cps].Jun 19 15:51
Eruarannumbered in order of appearanceJun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran []Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue2.png from Eruaran complete [5876 cps].Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran []Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue1.png from Eruaran complete [12145 cps].Jun 19 15:51
EruaranThe first one is what comes up if you try to open an .odt in MS Word 2007 (after I clicked 'details')Jun 19 15:52
schestowitzThanks!Jun 19 15:52
Eruaranno problemJun 19 15:52
Eruaranso, you click ok and you get the second oneJun 19 15:53
schestowitzAnd the third...?Jun 19 15:53
Eruaranso, you click 'yes' to 'recover the contents' of this document and you get the thirdJun 19 15:53
Eruaranthird shows after I clicked 'details'Jun 19 15:54
Eruaranclick 'ok' and thats itJun 19 15:54
schestowitz"the file is corrupt," eh? The last time I checked it's Microsoft that corrupted Swedish folks for OOXML.Jun 19 15:55
Eruarantry to open the same document back in OOo or KOffice and its perfectJun 19 15:55
schestowitzI'm blogging this now and will link to it, being an update to the previous post.Jun 19 15:58
Eruaran"Microsoft Office cannot open this file because some parts are missing or invalid" ~translation~ "Microsoft Office could open this file but wont because some parts are missing (you know, those binary blobs that keep you dependant upon us), so we've decided your choice of file formats is invalid".Jun 19 15:58
schestowitzFor the public record, I also want t post here what was sent to me (and also to PJ) anonymously.Jun 19 16:00
EruaranokJun 19 16:01
schestowitzOh S*.Jun 19 16:01
schestowitzI'm finding out more now.Jun 19 16:01
schestowitzDo you know Gary Edwards?Jun 19 16:01
schestowitzI need to find out if he wife is called Olivia Edwards.Jun 19 16:02
EruaranNot familiar with that nameJun 19 16:02
schestowitzOpenDocument Foundation.Jun 19 16:04
schestowitzIf we can show that it's indeed his wife (this name registered a domain under his name), then we show a strong link to Microsoft (Gold Partner).Jun 19 16:05
Eruaran:/Jun 19 16:07
schestowitzI want to at least have this discussion to avoid posting a defamatory post (and Groklaw could beat us to it).Jun 19 16:08
schestowitzAlso, bear in mind that on several occasions in the past I claimed a possible link between these two. Then we have others to worry about, like Patrick D who was perhaps pampered in his visit to Redmond.Jun 19 16:09
EruaranIs Edwards the guy who has been fudding from within ?Jun 19 16:10
Eruaran(or am I thinking of someone from OASIS)Jun 19 16:11
schestowitzYes, do a Google on him.Jun 19 16:11
schestowitzHim and marbux too, to an extent, but sometimes it seemed well intended. There was a point of a 360, just like Patrick.... as though they came different people overnight. PJ called marbux an "MS agent" at one stage.Jun 19 16:12
EruaranhmmJun 19 16:13
schestowitzIf I send you the mails, can you help me research this? I'm a tad pressured, time-wise.Jun 19 16:14
EruaranokJun 19 16:15
EruaranI can look into itJun 19 16:15
moparxugh. I slept in..Jun 19 16:17
moparxhow's it going everyone?Jun 19 16:17
schestowitzWhat address?Jun 19 16:17
Eruarannot bad moparx, howr uJun 19 16:17
moparxpretty good so farJun 19 16:17
schestowitz<moparx>, we may have found something significant, but we need to validateJun 19 16:17
EruaranI'll give you oneJun 19 16:17
kentmamoparx: what tz are you?Jun 19 16:17
moparxEDTJun 19 16:18
schestowitzSent.Jun 19 16:20
kentmaEDT Is BST-5?Jun 19 16:20
kentmahmm, you must've had a good kip!Jun 19 16:20
EruaranreceivedJun 19 16:21
schestowitzWhat I have doubts about: Is Olivia associated with the company in whois? Is it really his wife or a surname collision (it's a common one).Jun 19 16:22
Eruaranthat looks highly suspiciousJun 19 16:25
schestowitzJust posted your screenshots by the way (front page, pointers in both direction).Jun 19 16:27
schestowitz*directionsJun 19 16:28
EruarancoolJun 19 16:28
EruaranIts not like its news or anything but I think its worth drawing attention to Microsoft's recycling of old strategiesJun 19 16:29
schestowitzFoir background: marbux is somewhat multi-nymous. This raised suspicions before. I spoke to Gary who seems to be trying to deter ODF advocates, but I really don't know...Jun 19 16:29
schestowitzDo you think that "Registrant" refers to the wife's job?Jun 19 16:29
kentmaThere seems to be a huge number of Olivia Edwards aboutJun 19 16:29
kentmaOr maybe just the company which did the registration for them?Jun 19 16:30
schestowitzOr is the affiliation to do with the company that's hosting or offering registartion services?Jun 19 16:30
schestowitzYou beat me to it, <kentma> Jun 19 16:30
kentmaheheJun 19 16:30
schestowitzThat's what I said in reply to the E-mails: "I haven't looked at this closely yet, but doesn't that just mean that he registered it with an MS-affiliated host. One of my older hosts become MS Gold-certified days ago (*choke choke*). As for Gary, he and marbux started this. I know because they told me.  I'll look deeper now, but be careful. Don't just the gun yet. "Jun 19 16:31
schestowitz*jump *becameJun 19 16:31
schestowitzAt one stage, Gary came to Digg pulling the "paranoid" meme against me. Sort of like a discrediting attempt. But others whom I know felt bad for him because of his background, which is pro-FOSS. But the question here is different: are some people /selling out/ and defecting? That's the Q I'm trying to answer.Jun 19 16:33
schestowitzLook at Miguel "Qt was closed, I made GNOME, Silverlight is cool" de Icaza.Jun 19 16:34
EruaranyesJun 19 16:34
schestowitzUnrelated: 19 16:36
schestowitz<kentma>, do you want a copy of what whois returns?Jun 19 16:37
Eruarangtg its late hereJun 19 16:43
Eruarannite allJun 19 16:43
schestowitzSee you  later.Jun 19 16:43
schestowitzI can't figure out if this company would register domains: kentma> heheJun 19 16:47
schestowitz<Jun 19 16:47
schestowitzOops. Wrong paste. Should be: 19 16:48
*kentma says sorry was on the phone - got to take kids to dentist soon.Jun 19 17:07
kentmadoesn't look like they would do ip addresses to me.  They seem to be a purveyor of voip boxes.Jun 19 17:12
schestowitzSo do you think this address refers to the person's organisation (Olivia)?Jun 19 17:16
schestowitzI did a test on the same whos tool as above for another domain. It didn't help me find out what that field stands for. Nothing about this in GL yet ( ). Just checked.Jun 19 17:17
kentmaI really don't know...Jun 19 17:19
schestowitzI did a search on this domain for Edwards. No results returned.Jun 19 17:19
schestowitzIt is difficult to conclude much from this unless it was confirmed that she works there. I know for a fact that she helped Gary set up the garage for work, so her doing a domain registration would not be surprising. They registered the domain as they said they would when their OASIS members (or equiv.) ran out.Jun 19 17:21
schestowitz*membership.Jun 19 17:21
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schestowitzThe headhunter starts blogging *shudder* tmJun 19 17:30
schestowitz 19 17:31
schestowitz Was the OpenDocument Foundation a Pressure Group for Microsoft?Jun 19 18:05
schestowitzt's beginning to seem as though the wife of the founder  of the "OpenDocument Foundation" is a Microsoft Gold-Certified Partner. Follow the money?Jun 19 18:06
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PetoKraus 19 20:04
*schestowitz looksJun 19 20:06
schestowitzI like her more than I like Tux. I sort of knew about this in advance.Jun 19 20:06
PetoKrausit's good.Jun 19 20:13
schestowitzThere better news yet to come from ATI and NVIDIA. The Free desktop is doing well (bar issues like Novellisation, Microsoft hijacking OSS, OOXML/Silverlight poison pills, etc.)Jun 19 20:15
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RogerBacongo download opensuse 11 !Jun 19 22:29
RogerBaconoh, wait ...Jun 19 22:29
PetoKrauswell, just for the fun of itJun 19 22:29
RogerBaconit's too unstable for meJun 19 22:30
RogerBacon(long time debian user)Jun 19 22:30
RogerBaconsince version 3 with debianJun 19 22:30
RogerBacon:PJun 19 22:30
PetoKrauswellJun 19 22:31
PetoKrausdebian is too unstable for MEJun 19 22:31
*PetoKraus runs gentooJun 19 22:31
PetoKrausi tend to have perverted ideas, such asJun 19 22:31
RogerBaconi will give it a try anywayJun 19 22:31
PetoKrauscustomizing my system. Deb-based systems don't like to be customized. They overwrite your customization with every dist-upgradeJun 19 22:32
PetoKraus 19 22:33
RogerBaconim sure its still better than fedora core 9Jun 19 22:34
schestowitzSomeone once mailed me a pile of OpenSUSE 10.2 DVDs. It's an anonymous reader of, who didn't identify himself.Jun 19 22:35
RogerBaconniceJun 19 22:36
PetoKraussuch a nice and useful presentJun 19 22:36
RogerBaconmaybe i should start to hate microsoftJun 19 22:36
RogerBaconto have a bunch of windows server 2008 in my mail box :DJun 19 22:36
schestowitzWell, I never used them or handed them to anyone. It's somewhere in the drawers.Jun 19 22:36
RogerBaconhonnestly, does anyone know if opensuse is enought reliable for a production server ?Jun 19 22:38
RogerBacon*devJun 19 22:38
PetoKrauswellJun 19 22:39
PetoKrausjust stick with RHELJun 19 22:39
PetoKraus:)Jun 19 22:39
PetoKrausor if it's mission criticalJun 19 22:39
PetoKrausgo for BSD'sJun 19 22:39
PetoKrausalso gentoo with gentoo-hardened kernel could do.Jun 19 22:40
RogerBacongentoo ... how nice to compile some stuff when running a server boxJun 19 22:40
PetoKrauswell you don't need to compile anything once you have it up and runningJun 19 22:41
PetoKrausand if you need to update a package (security reasons) - it's usually not done on monthly basis (more frequently, therefore less time), and you can run it during low load (that's what's cron for) and it won't overwrite your configs unless you specifically tell it to do so.Jun 19 22:42
RogerBacon;)Jun 19 22:44
PetoKrausrightJun 19 22:45
RogerBaconthe doc seem pretty goodJun 19 22:45
PetoKrausthe docs are, i'd say, best on the webJun 19 22:45
RogerBaconreally interrested to try itJun 19 22:46
PetoKrausthe channel is a bit rough sometimes, the forum is quite good, but not all questions are answered there, and the gentoo-wiki is VERY useful sourceJun 19 22:46
RogerBaconwill give it a try ;)Jun 19 22:46
moparxthe gentoo-wiki is great :)Jun 19 22:46
RogerBaconanything good cconcerning gentoo ?Jun 19 22:46
PetoKrausthe main thing is, you don't get these... "copy'n'paste this" solutionsJun 19 22:46
RogerBaconyeahJun 19 22:47
PetoKrausyou actually LEARN why you do what you do.Jun 19 22:47
RogerBaconbecause everyone have diferent buildJun 19 22:47
PetoKrausanything good? well, it works exactly how you specify it to work.Jun 19 22:47
PetoKrausthat means - oh, you didn't set up automounting of USB's and MMC's, what a pity, i won't mount it for you :/Jun 19 22:48
PetoKrausand it costs you a week to find all the USE flags you forgot to put in...Jun 19 22:48
RogerBaconflags are build option, righjtJun 19 22:49
PetoKrausit's most probably not worth the hassle. Though you learn a lot and you are able to fix stuff faster.Jun 19 22:49
RogerBaconim sorry to ask this dumb question but never tryed it beforeJun 19 22:49
PetoKrausyes, it's like, oh, i won't need to open jpg files on my machine, so, i won't compile anything with jpg supportJun 19 22:50
RogerBaconemerge is good or not ?Jun 19 22:50
PetoKraus 19 22:50
PetoKrausemerge is slow. not in terms of compiling speed, but the app itself is terribly slowJun 19 22:51
RogerBaconokayJun 19 22:51
RogerBaconwill read the doc before weekendJun 19 22:51
RogerBacon;)Jun 19 22:51
RogerBaconhow about hardwareJun 19 22:52
RogerBacon?Jun 19 22:52
PetoKrausit's written in python, but, from what i've heard from several (ex)developers and gentoo users, the code is mess, so no one wants to touch it. It's like kernel - full of "don't fuck with this line" commentsJun 19 22:52
PetoKrauswell, you SHOULD compile your kernel during installation. So, everything works :PJun 19 22:52
RogerBacon*everything supported by the kernel itselfJun 19 22:53
RogerBaconcorrected it for you ;)Jun 19 22:53
PetoKrauswell, yeah :) but on the other hand, wifi's are always troublesomeJun 19 22:54
PetoKrausdepends on the vendorJun 19 22:54
RogerBaconmy house is wired with ethernet cableJun 19 22:54
RogerBaconnot a trouble hereJun 19 22:54
RogerBacon;)Jun 19 22:54
PetoKrausthen everything should work. The only thing which can bugger you is GPU, everything else should be supported by the kernelJun 19 22:55
PetoKrausrightJun 19 22:56
PetoKrausgood nightJun 19 22:56
schestowitzG'nightJun 19 22:58
RogerBaconbyeJun 19 23:03
schestowitzI'm so tired. I just really wanted to unleash some pending post before going to bed.Jun 19 23:06
schestowitzOne more and I'm off.Jun 19 23:06
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 19 23:16
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 19 23:42

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