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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 8th, 2008

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twitterBruce Perens says, "I have no new information. That's not to say that I trust the OSI folks."Aug 08 00:59
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schestowitzThanks, twitter.Aug 08 06:16
schestowitzI wonder why having a former Microsoft executive (Maritz) nearby will mean to the Linux Foundation. http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/ne...Aug 08 07:28
schestowitzWatch MSFT. Another round of pumping may have already begun, just as Bloomberg suggested (no word on the buybacks until it's all over).Aug 08 07:50
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kentmaAs they're focussed on specifications, mainly, it'll probably be helpful overall.Aug 08 11:50
schestowitzLiMo too: http://www.theregister.co.uk/200...Aug 08 11:54
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schestowitzCool, PJ has just put up that old Sutor item I've sent her (about Mono).Aug 08 15:24
schestowitzSlashdot span a good presentation about Linux into some kind of FUD against it. http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08...  Another reason not to trust Slashdot.Aug 08 15:53
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schestowitzJust had some documents leaked to me. Will blog it shortly.Aug 08 17:19
kentmainteresting...Aug 08 17:20
schestowitzIt's like Microsoft 'Scientology'.Aug 08 17:20
kentmaheheAug 08 17:35
schestowitzMicrosoftology.Aug 08 17:36
kentmahttp://networks.silicon.com/lans...Aug 08 18:13
kentmapacket switching 40 years old today.Aug 08 18:13
schestowitzI've just posted the leaked doc BTW.Aug 08 18:13
kentmaand I believe I've sorted the UTF-8 issues at last.Aug 08 18:13
schestowitzTo be fair, BT's throttling is backed by what Cerf said last week.Aug 08 18:14
kentmaAs I keep saying, the only real solution to this is for 3-mode networking, with pbb-te for streams, and files & messages onto the "best effort" unless they're critical in some way and need reliable delivery.Aug 08 18:15
kentmaip is brilliant for best effort - we should stick with it.Aug 08 18:15
schestowitzHere you can see Gary flatfish Stewart hackling and libeling me  ( http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dirty_Tr... ) as he does in almost every submission. They just move their trolling from one site to another like a leech.Aug 08 18:15
kentmaperhaps they get a pay rise if they follow you to another site?Aug 08 18:17
schestowitzHeh. Well, I don't know. They started threads about me in Slashdot too. Libel too. They used to try this in BN.com, but I can stop it (although I never delete comments). They just flooded the site when I was on vacation, IIRC.Aug 08 18:19
kentmaI think the pettiness is perhaps the nastiest part of this.Aug 08 18:20
schestowitzWho's behind all those latest attacks, do you know? Is it the same persona nymshifting?Aug 08 18:22
schestowitzThe worry is that they try to have COLA blocked by ISPs because of the disgusting language they plant there. I was told that people  tried to do the same thing to push Slashdot on blacklists and filters (and not just mental ones)Aug 08 18:23
kentmaI'm tossing a coin between gary stewart and k-man.Aug 08 18:23
kentmaIt doesn't use k-man's usual haunts, though.Aug 08 18:23
schestowitzI'm just not sure if it's one man. It's immature enough to be one of the vulgar ones. Rick Mathers?Aug 08 18:24
kentmaPerhaps.  I tend to kfile immediately, so don't really study them much any more.Aug 08 18:27
schestowitzIf you 'overfilter', you miss some signal too. Earlier today I only saw a reply yo some compliment that came from anonymous.Aug 08 18:28
kentmaIt's probably something originated via one of these: ^Path:.*[, ]mail2newsAug 08 18:30
kentma^Path:.*[, ]mail2news.*Aug 08 18:30
kentma^Path:.*nym.alias.netAug 08 18:30
kentma^Path:.*nymshifter.comAug 08 18:30
kentma^Mail-To-News-Contact:Aug 08 18:30
kentma^X-Mail2News-Contact:Aug 08 18:30
kentmaI filtered them out long ago, as they were almost inevitably troll posts.Aug 08 18:30
kentmaIf you want to expand your input, you could also connect to one or more incoming servers directly - I use several.Aug 08 18:31
kentmaJust checked - I have 3 both-way servers, and 5 incoming-only servers.Aug 08 18:32
kentmaI did increase the max x-post up to 6, but in my experience, it's just tending to show more of Gary Stewart's drivel.  I think I'd prefer to set it back down to 3 - what do you think?Aug 08 18:33
schestowitzIt's a bed message to miss, though. :-) "I believe Roy S. is one of the best PR men money can buy. His posts are full of vile and really do make a difference, and convinced me to hate Microsofteven more. Microsoft has noticed this and is sending in more troops to support DFS and Hadron, such as Psych Geek and Greenhorn. Roy, the Linux commmunity owes you!"Aug 08 18:33
schestowitzThe trolls are all over this (attacking the messenger) and so are the advocated, so I see it quotes.Aug 08 18:34
kentma"His posts are full of vile"  seems like an attack to me.Aug 08 18:34
schestowitz*quotedAug 08 18:34
kentmaI think it's just a troll attempt - cleverly worded to get both pro-charter and anti-charter folk responding.Aug 08 18:35
kentmaFurther, it worked.Aug 08 18:35
kentmaHave you considered using multiple servers, though?  I could send you some URLs to add to mine.Aug 08 18:35
kentmaAlthough you probably would need leafnode, I suppose - still, it's not hard to set up.Aug 08 18:36
schestowitzNo, thanks. I would not bother. I have another one here, but it requires authentication and it's sometimes neglected.Aug 08 18:37
kentmaI meant in addition to mine.  It would give you access to the stuff I filter before it goes into the spool, which you sometimes want.Aug 08 18:38
kentmaAnyway, I don't mind!Aug 08 18:38
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schestowitzIt's usually just the noise that's lost, so no change needed.Aug 08 18:39
kentmaNo worries.Aug 08 18:39
twitter:)Aug 08 18:39
schestowitzI see some new posts and yes... it seems like a plant. Puppet show going on now.Aug 08 18:40
twitterPidgin is nicer than an embedded client.  http://www.zantherus.com/commu...Aug 08 18:40
schestowitzI use Xchat.Aug 08 18:40
twittertell me about the puppet showAug 08 18:41
schestowitzI was talking about newsgroups earlier (before you came), not XChat.Aug 08 18:41
twittergot a link?Aug 08 18:41
schestowitzIt's libelous. Lots of it today. http://groups.google.com/group/c...Aug 08 18:42
twitterhmmm, I see the same things on Slashdot.  The threats to "normal life" and life itself are nasty.Aug 08 18:44
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Aug 08 18:44
schestowitzThere are also smear campaigns from "Anonymous coward"s in /. Here for example: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?...Aug 08 18:46
twitterI mean the same kinds of trolls say the same kinds of things to me on Slashdot.  Accusations of radicalism, counter productivity, racism etc.  Death threats, threats to career, that kind of thing.Aug 08 18:46
schestowitzYes, that stuff.Aug 08 18:47
twitterIt's gotten thick lately.Aug 08 18:47
schestowitzBut the annoying thing is that they follow you around the Web everywhere you go and spew out that libel to poison people against you.Aug 08 18:47
schestowitzPJ, for example, stopped participating away from GL because of this. It's no solution to the libel though.Aug 08 18:47
twitterThe solution is to track it back to some PR firm and class action them for libel and disruption of communications.Aug 08 18:49
twitterThat may not be possible thanks to botnets and TOR.Aug 08 18:49
schestowitzIt's too hard.Aug 08 18:50
twitterIt will take an insider to blow the whistleAug 08 18:50
schestowitzI saw a solicitor some years ago when this began. Unless you have strong proof, you can't show enough.Aug 08 18:50
schestowitzWell, leaked E-mails have already shown coordination of these things, but one has to find evidence against self.Aug 08 18:50
twitterThat's where a class action would come in.  There are many targets but only a few PR firms.  What I see from your trolls is identical to my trolls.Aug 08 18:52
schestowitzDo they know your real name? Have they exposed your ID?Aug 08 18:52
twitterOh yeah, the bad guys know who I am.Aug 08 18:52
schestowitzI used to regret having my details public, but having seen people exposed within seconds, I realise that it's impossible anyway.Aug 08 18:53
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.ph...Aug 08 18:53
schestowitz"Speaking of plots thickening, back when Maureen O'Gara published her stalking article, I received an email from Jeff Merkey in May of 2005, claiming to have been involved: "If you are wondering who gave MOG your address and who tracked you down, well, guess who? Now that you have been exposed, my task is complete here.""Aug 08 18:53
twitterI'd like to keep my advocacy private so that people trying to smear me look like the overzealous crazies they are.Aug 08 18:53
twitterI have published under my own name for the BRLUG, but that is a small component of what I do.Aug 08 18:54
schestowitzDo you really think they can't expose you?Aug 08 18:54
twitterThe exposure that counts is to people I have to work for - keeping me from gainful employment would hurt me.Aug 08 18:55
twitterIt is hard for them to pin slashdot activity on me.Aug 08 18:55
schestowitzAsk kentm, who has seen every single cautious advocate being exposed (home telephone # and all). It's almost as though there's someone contacting ISPs in the background for details. These details are used to intimidate advocate or subjugate them, using bosses/lawyers/etc.Aug 08 18:56
schestowitzThey could get your IP and ask a pal at the ISP.Aug 08 18:56
twitterYes, I'm sure they watch my traffic.  They know new accounts on the first or second post.Aug 08 18:57
schestowitzIt's simpler than you think. It's like social engineering and favours.Aug 08 18:57
schestowitzkentma, tell him about anonymity. We had a long discussion about it a week ago.Aug 08 18:57
schestowitzRick Frenkel got exposed when the Ray Niro troll put a bounty on his head.Aug 08 18:57
twitterThat kind of thing, however, exposes them to looking as evil as they are.  I'm not how they would present that kind of thing to a perspective employer in a way that would not get them busted.Aug 08 18:58
twitterWhat would they do, show off a bunch of AC coward posts?Aug 08 18:59
schestowitzWhat do you mean? By the way, Rick has just got a lucrative job fighting those trolls.Aug 08 18:59
schestowitzFWIW (side note), I've just received an E-mail telling me that Sam Ramji (the Microsoft insider) asked to give a speech at a LUG. They told him to stuff it (well, not in these words). It's still that same Microsoftology thing.Aug 08 19:00
twitterWhat I mean is the most damaging thing they can do with their knowledge is try to share it with my boss or a perspective employer but they don't have anything real to share that's not damaging to themselves.Aug 08 19:00
schestowitzThe employment song is more of an intimidating technique. I don't believe it to be real, but they want to scare people away by repeating it over and over again.Aug 08 19:02
schestowitzSome new BS here (missing the point): http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/bl... ( Novell Ain’t the Bad Guy )Aug 08 19:06
twitterWhat are they going to present?  ISP logs?  That should make them look dangerous.  If they show off a bunch of AC responses to "twitter" they will look crazy.  They can show off my BRLUG posts and tell people I'm a "loose cannon".  That bothers me but not much because it has little or nothing to do with my career path.  The AC stuff can be discrediting on Slashdot but it's not as effective as gaming the system or employment denial.Aug 08 19:07
schestowitzI've worked since I was a teenager and my living expenses are low, so I don't need to worry too much about it. That said, I am still offered jobs sometimes. The trolls will always try to overstate risk.Aug 08 19:08
twitterAbout your BS.  That's Dustin, leader of the BRLUG.  His specialty is M$/Linux interaction especially Samba service.  He's good at it.  He does kind of miss the freedom thing though.Aug 08 19:11
twitterWhen you don't see things through the lens of freedom, you can come to conclusions like Dustin does.Aug 08 19:12
twitterYou can go through his archives and see where he has discouraged "political" discussion and tried to eliminate anti-M$ talk.  Contact with M$ is toxic.Aug 08 19:16
schestowitzWho's that? URL?Aug 08 19:24
schestowitzI'm receiving some nasty E-mails at the moment. Very distracting.Aug 08 19:24
twitterSorry to hear about the email.  They did a little of that to me but quit when I never replied.Aug 08 19:26
twitterYou can find out more about Dustin at http://www.puryear-it.com/  and http://brlug.net/Aug 08 19:27
schestowitzIt's not abuse this time. It's something about a friend. The worse abuse is actually one that's made in public and libellous.Aug 08 19:27
twitterSomething real that happens to someone you know is worse.  I can understand your distraction.Aug 08 19:28
schestowitzI'll probably have to just catch up with some things another day. I just don't like the feeling of taking the eyes off the ball.Aug 08 19:29
twitterCool.  What ball are you watching?Aug 08 19:30
schestowitzWell, I'm planning to just have a quick look at what's done against Linux.Aug 08 19:30
schestowitzI'm just running thought lots of tabs ATM.Aug 08 19:30
schestowitzNovell just got the shaft here: http://www.usatoday.com/money/market... (need to blog this laterAug 08 19:32
schestowitzSome good news here: http://www.informationweek.com/news/har... and here http://www.informationweek.com/ne...Aug 08 19:42
schestowitzBig ouch! http://www.happyassassin.net/2008...Aug 08 19:47
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schestowitzAnd this comes from the leader of the Mandriva community (I use Mandriva ATM). Those annoying E-mails just keep coming. I smell frustration among a lot of people these days (I'm not one of them, fortunately)Aug 08 19:58
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schestowitzAnother thing: Microsoft tries to drive its critics into a state of desperation. It's not so funny when you see victims of this and you see this more vividly in Microsoft's leaks (the Slog).Aug 08 19:59
twitterLike their treatment of Peter Quin or Peter Gutman?Aug 08 20:00
schestowitzThis is a similar strategy, based on what I am told, to what the government tried to do to those resisting unnecessary wars. Ruining their name, driving them insane or driving them to suicide. I sense that what Reiser did relates to this. Aug 08 20:00
schestowitzGutmann was smeared too? Got URL? I know about Quinn and Bray and several others. I have a good record of this.Aug 08 20:00
schestowitzRex Ballard wrote a good post of it some weeks ago. I think a senior person in GNOME was subjected to similar 'treatment'. And now, due to the recession, I see more people who despair (not me luckily, but I worry for others). That's basically those E-mails that get me distracted. Some people 'bail out' on FOSS advocacy.Aug 08 20:01
twitterGutmann wrote about it himself, it was by proxy though George Ou and Ed Bott.  I'll get the urlAug 08 20:01
schestowitzOh yeah... I heard about it. Got some URLs?Aug 08 20:01
schestowitzApple once did something similar to security researchers.Aug 08 20:02
twitterhttp://www.cypherpunks...Aug 08 20:03
twitterThey smeared him all over zdnet and took it to his boss too.Aug 08 20:03
schestowitzBasically, the distracting correspondence is to ensure we don't lose advocates. You know, people who voluntarily seek the truth. Summed up by a portion of the latest message: "Also, there is a *huge* amount of "underground" activity.  We are so darn close to being able to show it." But anyway, the discussion also escalated to global warning as an issue. And digi/economical divide.Aug 08 20:04
schestowitzBott and Ou have, for a long time, been like another O'Gara. They are like marketing people for Microsoft... with a site/blog. Bott sells Windows books. They actually speak with Microsoft people... and ZDNet is funded by Microsoft, indirectly.Aug 08 20:05
twitterha ha.  If they wreck my career, I'll have more time for advocacy than they know what to do with.Aug 08 20:05
schestowitz*LOL* "(the "bunch of freaking morons" includes Bruce Schneier and Charlie Demerjian of the Inquirer, whom he refers to in a preceding email)."Aug 08 20:06
schestowitzWow. As I said earlier: "Microsoftology"Aug 08 20:06
schestowitz:-) *LMAO*Aug 08 20:06
schestowitzWell, let me tell you this.Aug 08 20:07
schestowitzIf it weren't for the vicious attacks they started against me in 2005/6, I'd probably would not be curious enough to study this.Aug 08 20:07
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schestowitzIn other words, I'd just go into employment in Google or something and never bother much. That's how I viewed it in 2005. When the libel (like me "taking away my genitalia") began, then I realised it ran deeper and I wanted to explore it.Aug 08 20:08
schestowitzAnd here I am some years later, having made some progress. If many thousands of people read my findings per day, then the knowledge passes. GL inspired me a lot, too.Aug 08 20:09
twitter:)Aug 08 20:09
schestowitzIt has actually been a lot of fun, once I got a thinker sink. :-)Aug 08 20:10
schestowitz*skinAug 08 20:10
twitterThe more channels of communications free software advocates have, the harder it will be to disrupt.Aug 08 20:10
schestowitzSome of them close down though.Aug 08 20:10
schestowitz*LOL* And some have been selling out recently. I no longer trust the LNUX ones (linux.com, slashdot, sf, newsforge).Aug 08 20:11
twitterI don't think Slashdot has sold out so much as it has been gamed.Aug 08 20:26
twitterHere's fun.  BRLUG user Will Hill stirs Dustin's pot.  http://mail.brlug.net/pipermai...Aug 08 20:26
schestowitzYou're feeding that O'Reilly guy. I've seen how Novell people try to grease up writers to write about them positively.Aug 08 20:28
schestowitzBTW, there's so much libel about me in COLA today (like 30 posts so far today), so I had to respond in a standalone message. They can't really harm me much. They have already bombarded people at the university, but they are unable to do this now. I just keep things more private and make people aware of the Wild West that the Web has become.Aug 08 20:29
twitterDustin is honest.  He believes what he writes.  The interaction is interesting and if it pumps up Novel, that will be to his discredit.Aug 08 20:30
schestowitzWait a second. Did I coincidentally bring up a post that happens to have a source related to yours?Aug 08 20:33
twitterWhat do you mean?Aug 08 20:33
schestowitzBTW, IBM is no angel. It wants Linux like Oracle wants it... as a platform, not an O/S. It straps on it some proprietary software, so the problem is not resolved.Aug 08 20:34
schestowitzI found the Dustin item in Tux Machines. I only knew Dustin's name because I see it on occasions but I didn't know you were both on BRLUG.Aug 08 20:35
twitterHe runs the BRLUG.Aug 08 20:38
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schestowitzYes, I realised this. Why did Azerthoth (from LXer, IIRC) vanish so quickly...? Anyway, I've just found some good news. Microsoft may slowly step into debt.Aug 08 20:40
twitterThe buyback?  Didn't you find that yesterday?Aug 08 20:40
schestowitzIt's not so much celebrating the misery of others as much as it is relaising that the company which imperils freedom is weakened, so there's hope for quicker change. And yes... the buybacks go some days back... MSFT is up while everything is down, so you know it got the go-ahead.Aug 08 20:41
schestowitzNovell too is on a similar boat and I'll blog it later.Aug 08 20:41
schestowitzWatch Microsoft downplaying the war it had lost (HDDVD):  http://blog.wired.com/games/2...Aug 08 20:43
twitterOf course.  If M$ became a free software company it would not be a problem.  Then I might be able to buy the OS I want with my computer, not have "driver" or ACPI problems and most of the world's online forums would be a lit nicer.Aug 08 20:43
schestowitzSee this from the news http://www.informationweek.com/news/sto... and this http://www.betanews.com/article/Are_lower_p...Aug 08 20:44
twitterOh yeah, ISPs would have one less excuse to block ports and forbid "servers"Aug 08 20:44
schestowitzI won't have time to blog it really, but I'll link to it for sure. They face some radical change as the margins fall. Aug 08 20:44
schestowitzJust in: http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderda...Aug 08 20:49
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twitterhttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/secur...Aug 08 23:43
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*schestowitz looksAug 08 23:44
twitterIt's funny how they tried to make a distinction between the "unsafe" wireless network and the wired network.Aug 08 23:44
schestowitzWith spies at the relay, does it make a difference? PGP to the rescue.Aug 08 23:45
twitterexactly.Aug 08 23:46
schestowitzUnless I encrypt it, which often I do, I just assume someone else will read it. In the workplace it's a common practice.Aug 08 23:46
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