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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 17th, 2008

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joseevery so often my nvidia does just that.. binary driver.. haven't used that pc recently though.. this one is ati or intel motherboard gpuOct 17 00:09
josei had a high school phys ed teacher once that graded solely based on improvements. That is the way to do it.Oct 17 00:40
josestriving for a definite goal post is great for those that are most motivated, but fundamentally, it all boils down to self improvements step after stepOct 17 00:41
josedefinite goal post meaning a universal goal post relative to your peers.. vs. a goal post meaningful only to yourselfOct 17 00:42
joseanyway, that's what that quote reminded me of... irc.. the time sinkOct 17 00:42
schestowitzWhat does it relate to?Oct 17 00:42
joseversion 1 sucks but eventually they get better and "rule"Oct 17 00:42
schestowitzAbout NVidia, I think it's a physical flaw. I still sit about 1 meter away from my displays..Oct 17 00:43
jose"make small improvements every day" is part of the website url that you postedOct 17 00:43
josenothing to do with nvidiaOct 17 00:43
josethe topic right before thatOct 17 00:43
josebob parson personOct 17 00:44
schestowitzI registered my domain for 10 years. Domains are 'unique'/universal, hosts are not. I hateGoDaddy because of things I hear. {It's a Trap!!!}^TMOct 17 00:44
schestowitzMy cousin had Parson spam all the customers to pimp his blog.Oct 17 00:44
schestowitzI'll never forget it.Oct 17 00:44
josewhose this parson fella?Oct 17 00:44
schestowitzThe Boss who thinks he's also a pimp.Oct 17 00:45
schestowitzJust watch his homepage.Oct 17 00:45
schestowitzAnd the ads.Oct 17 00:45
josei only recently got a domain name.. despite knowing about godaddy's deal i went with them as an informal recommendation.. i don't plan on renewing.. haven't used the stuff i'm paying forOct 17 00:46
joseyour cousin got "the boss" to do that.. i guess your cousin isn't john smith nobody.Oct 17 00:46
schestowitzNo, he lives in Florida though.Oct 17 00:47
josethen he must be a great guy/galOct 17 00:48
schestowitzHe bought like 20 domains from GoDaddy.Oct 17 00:48
jose:-)Oct 17 00:48
schestowitzWaste of money.Oct 17 00:48
joseespecially if they got parked on windowsOct 17 00:48
joseyeah, wonder what got betto so upset. hasn't replied yet.Oct 17 00:48
schestowitzMaybe it's like Alex. If I say white, he'll say black. If I say black, he must say white.Oct 17 00:50
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twitterschestowitz: I think my GPU is bad. Gone semi dark for a moment.Oct 17 01:03
twitterCheck cable.Oct 17 01:03
twitterif/when that fails, replace card/cards.Oct 17 01:04
twitter$ talks, bs walks... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...Oct 17 01:04
twitterNice how providing a service actually pays.Oct 17 01:06
josethat didn't sound like alex to me.. i have seen other people come on saying "prove it prove it" with arms waving all over. that's what i was reminded ofOct 17 01:29
josei'll be going soon.Oct 17 01:30
twitternight nightOct 17 01:36
twitterAMD did well .... http://www.reuters.com/article/rb...Oct 17 01:37
twitterIBM did well ... http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5idso...Oct 17 01:38
twitterhttp://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ibm-e...Oct 17 01:38
joseibm is high, but amd is poised to rise and rise if things work out.. i though maybe today could be when they break but i got the impression after hour trading went null or somethingOct 17 01:52
twitterIt's just interesting to see the results after all the FUD.Oct 17 01:55
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MinceRr4wrOct 17 05:58
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schestowitzhttp://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/16/51978 : $3 Trillion MIGHT be enoughOct 17 08:28
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/10/1... : Yahoo Cutting 3,500 Jobs?Oct 17 08:30
schestowitzMarkets recuperte though: http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=europeOct 17 08:33
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schestowitzWas software responsible for the financial crisis? : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/oct/16/c...Oct 17 08:44
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/152389/.html?tk=rss_news "The FBI said it had infiltrated online "carder" forums hosted on the DarkMarket.ws Web site, which was widely used by online scammers to buy and sell stolen credit card numbers, other financial information, and even the devices used to make fake banking cards. Before it was shut down earlier this month, the Web site had registered more than 2,500 members."Oct 17 09:02
schestowitzMicrosoft "Innovates" Again - By Copying GNU/Linux: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/10...Oct 17 09:36
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schestowitzThe Microsofters flood the press with Mono/.NET hype ('thanks' to Novell): http://reddevnews.com/news/devnews/ar... http://www.builderau.com.au/program/dotnet/soa/Mo...Oct 17 11:35
schestowitz*LOL* Reconstructor: create your own Ubuntu spin off : http://osgeex.blogspot.com/2008/10/reco...Oct 17 11:42
PetoKrausniceOct 17 11:50
PetoKrausnomo linux :)Oct 17 11:54
schestowitzNovell mantra: Mo' .NET, No Mo' Linux Oct 17 11:58
schestowitz"But within an hour of the news, Microsoft (MSFT)  spokesman Frank Shaw issued an statement to retract Ballmer’s comments. “Our position hasn’t changed. Microsoft has no interest in acquiring Yahoo!; there are no discussions between the companies,” Microsoft said. "Oct 17 11:59
schestowitzFrom "Microsoft loves Yahoo, Microsoft hates Yahoo" < http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10/16... >. Still Slogging Yahoo's stock, just as twitter pointed out yesterday.Oct 17 12:00
schestowitzIncest: "A visit to the Microsoft booth at the Gartner Symposium and ITxpo is full of subliminal messages urging technology executives to move up to more modern products." http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10439Oct 17 12:13
schestowitzThis one is like MSBBC all over again (obscure consoles... yes; Linux support... no): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article... ( Microsoft Considers Silverlight For Android, Says iPhone Not Likely )Oct 17 12:17
schestowitzSo it's fine for Android (Linux), which nobody uses right now, but for Linux desktop it's not OK... they try to keep Linux desktops aback... same tricks with iPlayer.Oct 17 12:17
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schestowitzDeceiving headline there: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Sour...Oct 17 12:39
schestowitzThoughts came to mind: "OpenLogic Sells Out to Microsoft, Promotes Windows?"Oct 17 12:39
schestowitz"Microsoft and OpenLogic both made moves Oct. 15 to further their open-source initiatives, with Microsoft releasing new software for Web developers and OpenLogic announcing new professional services to help companies increase their usage of open-source software."Oct 17 12:39
schestowitzTotally separate events though in a single article.Oct 17 12:39
schestowitzCyberLink, which made a lot of "Linux" noise recently, is cozying up with Microsoft: http://www.digitimes.com/NewRegister/join.asp?vi... (CyberLink becomes Microsoft's first GISV partner in Taiwan)Oct 17 12:43
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schestowitzSDKs and Microsoft P/Ls.... is Slashdot now a Microsoft site? http://tech.slashdot.org/tech...Oct 17 13:03
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schestowitzMicrosoft under the guise of "helping children" (hurting Linux): http://afp.google.com/article/AL... and Microsoft PR routines to portray the company as "humanitarian" (the thief who gave a donation): http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/info...Oct 17 13:11
josetwitter: (offtopic) yesterday amd came up.. i'm not sure about them for the immediate.. it might take something like a good and untimed decision by a judge in their antitrust trial(s) with intel to get them going definitively. they do seem priced now very well historically speaking however. i really don't expect them to fold .. this comment is meant to taper the enthusiasm i expressed yesterday i think within a quick conversation wiOct 17 13:12
joseth you but not sureOct 17 13:12
joseschestowitz, what do you think about that alleged superpowerful attack on internet servers of all types that has not been detailed publically by two researches?Oct 17 13:14
joseresearchersOct 17 13:14
schestowitzLet me find a ref.Oct 17 13:15
joseit seems that open source could be very vulnerable since you need only read the source to consider weaknessesOct 17 13:15
joserobertleeOct 17 13:15
schestowitzLaw Professor: Counter Terrorism Czar Told Me There Is Going To Be An i-9/11 And An i-Patriot Act : http://www.infowars.net/articles/august2008/050808i911.htmOct 17 13:15
schestowitzMore fluff escapades for PR purposes: Microsoft executive gives PU students a future tech vision < http://www.packetonline.com/articles/2008/10/... >Oct 17 13:16
josei don't think foss will have a problem though. companies like red hat that maintain specific stable versions will thriveOct 17 13:19
joseredmond people will always have laziness (closed source obscurity) and legacy guck to fall back on and keep their systems vulnerableOct 17 13:21
schestowitzMore on that fiasco from Portugal: http://www.thejournal.com/articles/23422Oct 17 13:21
schestowitzjose: they've just patched 4 "critical" holes.Oct 17 13:22
josea sure way to an internet attack disaster (besides the worms we've had) is to keep spreading windows aroundOct 17 13:22
schestowitzThat's also a way to prevent a ban/embargo on Windows.Oct 17 13:23
josesome people want such an attack and would appreciate windows being thereOct 17 13:23
schestowitzSome nations have thought about it, but if Microsoft can get enough people addicted to it (not twitching or anything), then a quarantine of a large scale becomes impractical.Oct 17 13:24
schestowitzjose: no, that's a reality already.Oct 17 13:24
schestowitzAlmost every week there's a massive DDOS attack arriving from Windows botnets.Oct 17 13:24
joselooking at the lessig link you gave..Oct 17 13:25
schestowitzEven DNS came under attack some times in the past. If the cybercriminal want to, they can knock down the whole Internet now (through the backbone).Oct 17 13:25
schestowitzjose: grain of salt re: the link; it's from the Alex Jones types.Oct 17 13:25
jose"An i-9/11, as described by Lawrence Lessig, would provide the perfect pretext to implement such restrictions in one swift motion, as well as provide the justification for relegating and eliminating specific content and information on the web."Oct 17 13:25
joseokOct 17 13:25
schestowitzOr technology I assume.. not just content.Oct 17 13:27
schestowitzN. Dakota Judge rules that "host -l" command constitutes hacking - http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/01/17/n...Oct 17 13:27
schestowitzAnimal Rights Activists Forced to Hand Over Encryption Keys - http://www.schneier.com/blog/a...Oct 17 13:28
schestowitzUK gov sets rules for hacker tool ban - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/0...Oct 17 13:28
schestowitzGerman Security Professionals in the Mist - http://www.beskerming.com/commentary/2007/08...Oct 17 13:28
schestowitzBitTorrent Admin Monitored by US Government, Forced to Dump Linux - http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-admin-mon...Oct 17 13:28
schestowitzLots of rumours this week about Microsoft buying (wanting to buy?) RIM.Oct 17 13:29
schestowitz Microsoft reveals critical holes in Active Directory, mainframe gateway - http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/101408-s...Oct 17 13:31
schestowitzWait until some supercomputers are hijacked too because they run Windows.Oct 17 13:31
schestowitzSome people actually fall for it... http://www.9wsyr.com/content/news/real_dea...Oct 17 13:42
josems is giving the internet a bad nameOct 17 14:14
schestowitzProtocols are poor too.Oct 17 14:15
schestowitzThat said, the issue with DNS hacks, for instance, is largely exacerbated by the existence of malware (Windows).Oct 17 14:15
schestowitzTo visit and render a Web page should not be a danger, unless ActiveX and such stuff comes into play.Oct 17 14:16
joseinstead of strengthening the internet, they want to weaken legal but strong linux for exampleOct 17 14:18
schestowitzThe issue of liability returned last week (or two weeks ago).Oct 17 14:20
Tallkenit's all about profitOct 17 14:21
schestowitzThe Register returned to this question, which I think was raised in parliament.Oct 17 14:21
schestowitzProfit now, products NOW, secrity later.Oct 17 14:21
Tallkenthe usualOct 17 14:22
joseas long as microsoft is the yard stick, linux is going to suffer from being misunderstoodOct 17 14:22
Tallkennope, as long as Linux keeps gaining users, sooner or later a company able to compete with MS is going to ariseOct 17 14:23
Tallkenjust make sure that company uses GPL-v3Oct 17 14:23
Tallkenjust in caseOct 17 14:24
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schestowitzI'm stuck in a hyperbole with Alex on the issue of Mono: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/...Oct 17 14:25
schestowitzWhat amazes me is that he defends Silverlight. Who on earth, especially as a Linux user, defend the ruining of the Web with binary vendor-specific 'browsers'?Oct 17 14:26
josealex makes it hard sometimes to trust that he is being genuineOct 17 14:27
joseyou get torn between keeping gloves on or taking them offOct 17 14:27
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Tallkenwell it's simpleOct 17 14:29
Tallkenthere is the road to the success to Linux which 100km long and absolutely safeOct 17 14:30
Tallkenthe one which is 50km long but has a few bad segmentsOct 17 14:30
Tallkenand the 10 km long which is doomedOct 17 14:30
Tallkenmost people think the 50km road is safe enoughOct 17 14:30
Tallkennot hard to understandOct 17 14:30
Tallkenah and some people doubt the 100km long road existsOct 17 14:31
joseare we almost there yet pappa smurfOct 17 14:32
joseswoosh.. right over my headOct 17 14:32
jose:-)Oct 17 14:32
josei guess i'm just not up for that much thinking this morningOct 17 14:32
schestowitzMicrosoft or the highway?!?!Oct 17 14:33
Tallkendidn't understand the pappa smurf thing?Oct 17 14:33
Tallkenthe could be a nice Limp Bizkit songOct 17 14:33
Tallkenmore or like thatOct 17 14:33
Tallkenallow binary modules == 10 kmOct 17 14:33
Tallkenallow 'minor' parts binary == 50 kmOct 17 14:33
TallkenFSF in charge == 100 kmOct 17 14:33
josealex seems to know too much on some things yet remains fairly quite on othersOct 17 14:34
joseand he persistsOct 17 14:34
josealex are you listening?Oct 17 14:34
josealexhOct 17 14:34
Tallken"Microsoft or the highway?!?!" the could be a nice Limp Bizkit song == that could be a nice Limp Bizkit songOct 17 14:35
schestowitzjose: I think he reads the logs. He refers to them.Oct 17 14:35
Tallkenthen "Hi AlexH" :POct 17 14:35
josei don't like talking behind people's back.. that's why i said thatOct 17 14:35
schestowitzMicrosoft's attitude has for long been: "Either you're with us or against us"Oct 17 14:35
schestowitzThe funny thing is that they use labels like "anti-Microsoft"Oct 17 14:36
Tallkenschestowitz: it undoubtedfully worksOct 17 14:36
Tallkenthe attitudeOct 17 14:36
schestowitzMoreover, they try to describe others (FOSS, Apple) as 'cults', refusing to see their own behaviour and internal (leaked) memos.Oct 17 14:36
schestowitzMS mantra: Microsoft runs the world; everyone else.... _just stands in the way_Oct 17 14:37
Tallkenwell Apple not so much nowOct 17 14:37
schestowitzYou can compete with Microsoft? You must be cancerOct 17 14:37
Tallkenit's getting too popularOct 17 14:37
schestowitzThe dept. of Defence chooses FOSS... ti must therefore be "communism"Oct 17 14:37
Tallkenmarketing, so beautiful ^^Oct 17 14:38
schestowitzIt's very polarised.Oct 17 14:38
schestowitzBut it's the HYPOCRISY that's stunning.Oct 17 14:38
schestowitzMicrosoft: wait wait!! You can't let Yahoo collaborate with Google. No!! Waaa!!! [throws toy out the pram]Oct 17 14:38
schestowitzWeek later: Ballmer, convicted monopolist, wants to buy Yahoo to ruin and destroy Google, i.e. eliminate competition. That's fair!Oct 17 14:39
Tallkenschestowitz: world is not logicOct 17 14:39
Tallkenyou should know thatOct 17 14:39
schestowitzLogic is controlled by those controlling the government.Oct 17 14:39
joselogic is "do what we have to do to win"Oct 17 14:40
Tallkenlogic is nutsOct 17 14:40
schestowitzAs long as the 90s cronies of Microsoft stay in DoJ and White House, there's littyle chance for justice.Oct 17 14:40
Tallkenfor example have you noticed the left is very liberal in the social aspect and very strict on economic movementOct 17 14:40
Tallkenand the right is the opposite?Oct 17 14:40
Tallkenjust thought of it the other dayOct 17 14:40
Tallkenit's funny :DOct 17 14:40
schestowitzAs Lessig would attest, the parliament and entire system needs to be washed up from the bottom to the top. It's too filled with bribes (campaign contributions, pet charities, etc.) and crooks.Oct 17 14:41
josepeople don't like to lose their jobs or power.. accept money and you can stay longerOct 17 14:42
Tallkenit's man natureOct 17 14:42
schestowitzThe issue is that even an economical critis won't impeaches and rid the system of the poison that runs through its blood. It might actually make things worse because politicians beg for more funds (bribes), so they are more corruptible and easily inclines to return favours to megacorps.Oct 17 14:42
Tallkenjust get more power so you can ensure noone else screws upOct 17 14:43
Tallkengoint to lunch :DOct 17 14:43
schestowitzWith a lobyist?Oct 17 14:45
joseroy, giving benefit of some amount of doubt, foss devs in general won't take too kindly to being told there are patents here there and everywhereOct 17 14:50
josealex, for exampleOct 17 14:50
joseit's an abridgment of right to create.. even if the patent was legit, which many times you might find it isn't or there could be work aroundsOct 17 14:51
joseyou are talking about hobby but also about livelihoodOct 17 14:52
joseif you happen to need to use something or really have a business built up on it.. wishy washy patent threats aren't going to stop youOct 17 14:53
joseand foss devs need/want others to help out, so maybe you can see that you won't be alex' favorite person by pushing patent FUD defenseOct 17 14:54
josethe prob i have is the insistence on ms technologies.. i mean why? that is not a patent thing because even something similar would violate alleged patentsOct 17 14:55
joseok, the more dissimilar the less likely, but the point remains that why stick precisely to ms' guidebarsOct 17 14:56
MinceRwell, crApple _is_ a cult... but so is m$Oct 17 14:56
joseand even if you deviate a little.. why stick overall so close?Oct 17 14:56
josei think this has to do with novell seizing what it believes to be an opportunityOct 17 14:56
joseand alex and others being along for the ride (not accusing him of working for novell but maybe others are or are close enough)Oct 17 14:57
schestowitzYes,  that has always been the case.Oct 17 14:58
schestowitzNovell sees some money in  Microsoft and hopes to gets a share. But it was desperate.Oct 17 14:58
MinceRall aboard the fail trainOct 17 14:59
josethe problem i would have with alex and others is deception..Oct 17 14:59
jose*would be* deceptionOct 17 15:00
joseon their part.Oct 17 15:00
josethe history of ms is right thereOct 17 15:01
josei would expect some amount of rationalization to explain away why this time things are differentOct 17 15:01
josewould be differentOct 17 15:01
josebut all i hear is silence on the issueOct 17 15:01
josei don't care if person x or y decides to do whatever, but he and others persist on attacking you and defending novell etc relativelyOct 17 15:02
josems must love the idea of being able to listen in on the enemies conversations.. BN must provide quite a showOct 17 15:02
schestowitzWell, they read it.Oct 17 15:05
*Tallken decides to troll a bitOct 17 15:15
Tallkenwell if we've that kind of audienceOct 17 15:15
TallkenHI MUM! I'M HERE!Oct 17 15:15
*Tallken ends the trollingOct 17 15:15
Tallkenit's normalOct 17 15:15
Tallkenmaybe RMS is watching us :DOct 17 15:15
schestowitzHe doesn't use IRC, I don't think so.Oct 17 15:16
schestowitzHe doesn't even browser the Web.Oct 17 15:16
schestowitzbrowseOct 17 15:16
Tallkenjudging by his webpage, I'm not surprised...Oct 17 15:16
TallkenLinus doesn't, he probably doesn't care as long as they let him work and don't kill his workOct 17 15:16
Tallkenmost people don't regard Mono as a threatOct 17 15:17
schestowitzIt's being rebuffed.Oct 17 15:17
TallkenI honestly doubt MS will use patents on public viewOct 17 15:17
Tallkenthey use it probably on companiesOct 17 15:18
Tallkenand on OEMsOct 17 15:18
Tallkenand that way they get away with it... probablyOct 17 15:18
schestowitzWell, the thing is, as soon as someone expresses resentment for Mono (with legitimate reasons), the Mono Patrol(R) shows up in the scene and shoot the messenger/message relentlessly.Oct 17 15:18
TallkenlulzOct 17 15:18
schestowitzJust watch how they 'trashed' Glyn's article... or Alan Lord... they have to have the last word.Oct 17 15:18
schestowitzMicrosoft, 2007: Linux violates out patents.Oct 17 15:19
schestowitzLinux: WTF? What patents? LOLOct 17 15:19
Tallkenanyway they got sloppy, MS has to revamp Windows before it can turn their attention to LinuxOct 17 15:19
schestowitzMicrosoft: no comment.Oct 17 15:19
schestowitzLinux: hey, what about those threats, you monopolist?Oct 17 15:19
schestowitzMicrosoft: no comment.Oct 17 15:19
TallkenFUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUD FUDOct 17 15:19
Tallkennothing newOct 17 15:19
schestowitz[Mono makes way into Linux]Oct 17 15:19
schestowitzMicrosoft 201x: Linux violates our patents.Oct 17 15:20
TallkenlulzOct 17 15:20
schestowitzLinux: LOL. Where?Oct 17 15:20
schestowitzMicrosoft. There.Oct 17 15:20
schestowitzMicrosoft: There. [points to Mono /]Oct 17 15:20
schestowitzLinux: so what?Oct 17 15:20
schestowitzMicrosoft: pay up or remove it.Oct 17 15:20
schestowitzLinux: we can't remove it. it's ALL OVER THE BL00DY desktop.Oct 17 15:20
Tallkenthen payOct 17 15:21
TallkenlolOct 17 15:21
Tallkenthe thing is, patents are seen as the equivalent of WMD of software worldOct 17 15:21
Tallkeneveryone has themOct 17 15:21
MinceRat least that's the way m$ marketing imagines itOct 17 15:21
MinceRTallken: exactlyOct 17 15:21
Tallkennoone wants to use themOct 17 15:21
MinceRm$ would be immediately threatened by othersOct 17 15:21
schestowitzIt's expensive to sue.Oct 17 15:21
schestowitzLet alone to defend a patent.Oct 17 15:21
MinceRbut still, i say fuck them and mono.Oct 17 15:22
schestowitzSome companies just issue a crease-fire/Oct 17 15:22
schestowitzThey regret suing using patents.Oct 17 15:22
schestowitzUnless...Oct 17 15:22
schestowitzThey can get peaceful settlements... Microsoft has cross-licensing deals... many of them, including with Novell.Oct 17 15:22
Tallkenone more reason to get GPL-v3 going aroundOct 17 15:22
schestowitzMicrosoft makes money doing nothing... just pointing blidnly to a pile of paper.Oct 17 15:22
schestowitzSame with trolls like Myhrvold and IV.Oct 17 15:23
schestowitzOr acacia.Oct 17 15:23
schestowitzMinceR: that sounds funny ("i say fuck them and mono.")Oct 17 15:23
schestowitzYou do realise that mono is a STD, right?Oct 17 15:24
MinceRnow i doOct 17 15:24
schestowitzSexually transmitted disease.Oct 17 15:24
TallkenlulzOct 17 15:25
Tallkenyou can't criticise others for using "communism" and "cancer" and then use STD, schestowitz!!!Oct 17 15:25
Tallken:DOct 17 15:25
schestowitzWell, it's a different mono, not the monkey.Oct 17 15:27
MinceRyes he canOct 17 15:27
MinceRwhatever fundies may say, facts are not opinions.Oct 17 15:28
joseTallken, their use of patents on eoms and others serves to marginalize linux.. to keep hardware secrets at bay for example and preloads off and boot secrets closed etcOct 17 15:31
josethe "fud" also puts microsoft in a position ultimately to control commercial linux. this will lead to the free stuff being of marginal utilityOct 17 15:32
joseTallken, ms has to revamp windows. so we let them get that done while we then prepare their table? no, if anything, we can expect things to get more difficult for us if we aren't aggressive.Oct 17 15:33
Tallkenjose: trueOct 17 15:33
Tallkenthing isOct 17 15:34
Tallkenyou can't stop people developing using a "bad" toolkitOct 17 15:34
Tallkeneither clone itOct 17 15:34
Tallkenor clone the apps using that toolkitOct 17 15:34
schestowitzDon't forget the Dell/Microsoft(Novell) Linux dealOct 17 15:34
Tallkenlink?Oct 17 15:34
schestowitzThe OEMs might already be pressured by Microsoft to pay for Linux preinstallsOct 17 15:34
TallkenpleaseOct 17 15:34
Tallkennothing surprisingOct 17 15:35
schestowitzHold on.Oct 17 15:35
Tallkenmake money be one less thing that gives advantage to LinuxOct 17 15:35
schestowitzHere's a summary (old): http://boycottnovell.com/2007/08/27/novel...Oct 17 15:36
schestowitzHere is a recent important observation about timing: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Oct 17 15:36
joseTallken, I agree. We aren't a police force. this is about dessiminating information.Oct 17 15:37
josedisemminatingOct 17 15:37
schestowitzBut the regulators are still asleep.Oct 17 15:38
schestowitzWhat good is evidence of crime if nobody takes note or listens? Watch the OOXML corruptions.Oct 17 15:39
Tallken<sarcasm> lol ya it's much more important to forbid "hacker tools" </sarcasm>Oct 17 15:40
josei'm big on getting linux marketed .. the idea is to have people know and understand in their own way..Oct 17 15:40
josethis site is helpful to authorities perhaps but also to people. people ultimately are what matterOct 17 15:41
schestowitzTallken: hacker tools enable access to evidence of corruption, among other things.Oct 17 15:41
josehacker tools are researchOct 17 15:41
joseif you don't do it, they willOct 17 15:41
josethe criminals willOct 17 15:41
joseif you don't discover something firstOct 17 15:42
schestowitzI love the explanations about hyporcrisy which say that there are "big criminals" (bit boats) and "small criminals" (pirates), but only the small guys can ever be vilified and jailed.Oct 17 15:42
schestowitzThat's to do with governments that engage in crimes against humanity, for instance, while jailing those who protest unnecessary wars.Oct 17 15:42
TallkenI honestly think people should stop pirating thingsOct 17 15:44
schestowitz"pirating"?Oct 17 15:45
schestowitzArrrrrrr you using propaganda terms?Oct 17 15:45
TallkenhumOct 17 15:45
MinceRlolOct 17 15:45
*MinceR likes that termOct 17 15:45
MinceRarrrr!Oct 17 15:45
Tallkenit's correct isn't it?Oct 17 15:46
TallkenI got kinda confusedOct 17 15:46
Tallkensometimes I "englishize" portuguese words so I was double checking lolOct 17 15:47
MinceRwell, it's meant to have negative connotationsOct 17 15:47
MinceRbut i think it fails at that, considering that they even had to invent a new logo for hazardous substances because the Jolly Roger is inviting to children :>Oct 17 15:48
Tallken?Oct 17 15:48
MinceRalso, we have Talk Like A Pirate DayOct 17 15:48
*Tallken gotta work, will be back in ~30 mins to check the chatOct 17 15:48
MinceRwhat are you asking about?Oct 17 15:48
MinceRthe new logo?Oct 17 15:48
MinceRhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr...Oct 17 15:49
josei had not seen mr yuk before ..."Mr. Yuk is a trademarked graphic image, created by the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, and widely employed in the United States " ??Oct 17 15:51
schestowitzMaybe it's patented by Microsoft.Oct 17 15:54
joseYou have to be a Microsoft Kid to see itOct 17 15:55
joseMicrosoft Kid TMOct 17 15:55
schestowitzPatent from Microsoft... on  emoticonsOct 17 15:55
joseI like Red Hat Kid TM moreOct 17 15:55
schestowitzMicrosoft frowned at for smiley patent : http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanage...Oct 17 15:56
schestowitzMaybe because the kid is frowning, then there's no violation.Oct 17 15:56
schestowitzBoy, I'm scared. Microsoft owns some keys on my keyboard, it owns my facial impressions ( :-( :-( ).... the court too will hold these 10000 or so Microsoft patents.Oct 17 15:57
twitterOwns your keys?  I thought some guy at IBM invented ctrl-alt-delete.Oct 17 16:00
schestowitzMicrosoft made it famousOct 17 16:00
twitterYou need a keyboard without those nasty little windows and menu keys.Oct 17 16:01
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?...Oct 17 16:01
schestowitzI was talking about PgDn/Up too... I was being cynical.Oct 17 16:01
twitteroh yeah, I forgot about the new page up patent.Oct 17 16:02
twitterThanks USPTOOct 17 16:02
twitterThat's a great movie.  Gates was so pissed.Oct 17 16:04
twitter:) now I know exactly what he thinks of Slashdot.Oct 17 16:04
schestowitzI hope to see some jail time: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/...Oct 17 16:05
schestowitzFrom the two mobster CEOs that brought you OLPC charity slog.Oct 17 16:05
schestowitzThey made a phonecall... arranging a collusion I assume.Oct 17 16:06
twitterThinking of M$ and "super computers" I was told the soft had been making inroads in medical work, specifically cancer treatment.Oct 17 16:10
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/...Oct 17 16:11
schestowitz"Hackers have released code that could be used to take control of a server running Microsoft's Host Integration Server 2006, used to connect mainframe applications to Windows PCs."Oct 17 16:11
schestowitzI posted to this USENET a minute ago. Microsoft Mainframe Servers Become ZombiesOct 17 16:11
twitterSecurity problems are obvious, it would just be another botnet captured easily.Oct 17 16:12
twitterWhy medical vendors started using it is not.  It seems to have something to do with FDA approval keeping things ten years behind and some early DOS work by one or two vendors.Oct 17 16:13
twitter10 years ago people were using non free Unix.  That market fell to M$.Oct 17 16:13
twitterBut it still makes no sense, 10 years ago GNU/Linux was almost as obvious a choice for clustering as it is today.Oct 17 16:14
twitterThere have been several security incidents with hospitals and M$, you would think they would learn.Oct 17 16:15
twitterPropaganda that blames the user seems to be effective.Oct 17 16:15
Tallkenin 98 I had started to hear about LinuxOct 17 16:15
Tallkenand net was not as easily accessible as todayOct 17 16:15
schestowitzBlaming the user. That's a classic.Oct 17 16:16
schestowitzComputers are just not secure.Oct 17 16:16
twitterNASA was way out in front with Beowolf clusters by 1998.Oct 17 16:16
schestowitzIt's all just innate... to do with users.Oct 17 16:16
schestowitzAnd the Internet is "dangerous"Oct 17 16:16
schestowitzWhite is Black and Black is White. Operating system come in 7 flavours...................... of Vista.Oct 17 16:17
twitterM$'s usual defense, "no software is better than ours," is patently absurd.Oct 17 16:17
Tallken*patently*Oct 17 16:19
*Tallken shuddersOct 17 16:19
Tallkenthe P-wordOct 17 16:19
schestowitz"Everything else is equally insecure"... "every other large company is equally corrupt"... "all computers *just* crash"... "SPAM is unavoidable"...Oct 17 16:22
twitter"  Ballmer tacitly conceded that Google Apps are hurting Microsoft in at least one area. University students, who are "the leading edge of all consumerization phenomena" use Office but "when it comes to sharing stuff they use Google Apps, which is why we're moving to Office Live," he said."Oct 17 16:22
twitterhttp://www.internetnews.com/software/article....Oct 17 16:23
twitterha haOct 17 16:23
twitterWhen people use things to share, the other stuff falls off.Oct 17 16:23
twitterM$ has been dumping their stuff at Universities, but it's still a pain compared to Google.Oct 17 16:23
schestowitztwitter: they do it in Africa now.Oct 17 16:25
schestowitzI was going to wite about this later.Oct 17 16:25
schestowitzI have so much stuff to cover in BN, but haven't even started yet (none today)Oct 17 16:25
twitter:) relaxOct 17 16:26
schestowitzDeath of Microsoft MSN Groups is Confirmed : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c...Oct 17 16:26
twitterpoof!Oct 17 16:26
twittereverything M$ does that eventually.Oct 17 16:28
twittergotta get some stuff done for a while, keep up the good work.Oct 17 16:28
joselaterOct 17 16:29
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PetoKraushehe, it's funny how beranger pushes mint right nowOct 17 17:10
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MinceR180551 <@schestowitz> Microsoft made it famousOct 17 17:12
MinceRpatents aren't granted on fame base though :>Oct 17 17:12
schestowitzYes, but did you see the video?Oct 17 17:23
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1zADyh0JQh8Oct 17 17:23
*_Doug (i=c3c24bd1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5e9ef1300224aac0) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 17:24
_DougToys 'R' US selling Eee PCs in Stores ..Oct 17 17:24
_Doug512MB ram, 8GB solid storageOct 17 17:24
_DougWindows XP or Linux versionsOct 17 17:24
_DougOver 40 applicationsOct 17 17:24
_DougOpenofficeOct 17 17:24
_DougSkype, Webcam & MicOct 17 17:25
_Doug7 8.9 10 inch displayOct 17 17:25
_Dougadvert Oct 17, Daily TelegraphOct 17 17:25
MinceRironicOct 17 17:26
MinceRnow you can get a real computer at toys'r'us and a toy computer at appleOct 17 17:26
schestowitz*lol*Oct 17 17:27
schestowitzWell, both ASUXANDROS and WinXP are toys.Oct 17 17:27
schestowitzIt's possible to replace it though, but I think it requires Windows for 'reflashing' (SSD).Oct 17 17:28
_DougAll  for €£179 ..Oct 17 17:28
_DougWhat's the markup for billg on these machines ?Oct 17 17:29
MinceRit's a real computer compared to apple stuff thoughOct 17 17:36
_DougApples are good .. don't knock them ..Oct 17 17:39
_Dougschestowitz: find out the markup for the software on thse machines ..Oct 17 17:40
_Dougwhat's the price difference between XP and Linux ?Oct 17 17:41
_DougPost on it on BN ...Oct 17 17:41
_DougbenJIman, how about an OpenSUSE version ?Oct 17 17:41
schestowitz€£179 is ripoff.Oct 17 17:42
_Doughow ?Oct 17 17:42
schestowitzAlthough Maplin is equally bad.Oct 17 17:42
_DougIt's good for Toys R Us ..Oct 17 17:42
_Doug:)Oct 17 17:42
schestowitz_Doug: I posted about this before.Oct 17 17:43
_Douggtg ..Oct 17 17:43
schestowitzThere's possible 'codec' taxOct 17 17:43
_Dougsend me the link ..Oct 17 17:43
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MinceRwhat are apples good for?Oct 17 17:44
MinceRkeeping the wind from slamming the door?Oct 17 17:45
MinceRis _Doug a crApple cultist?Oct 17 17:45
schestowitzNo.Oct 17 17:48
schestowitzI saw a Macbook Air at the shopOct 17 17:48
schestowitzBinarised and bastardised BSD with a nice theme... seen them many times before... nothing exciting.Oct 17 17:49
MinceRif it was niceOct 17 17:49
MinceRit's a Fisher-Price themeOct 17 17:49
MinceRcomplete with spinning lollypopsOct 17 17:49
schestowitzCan it be changed? Like /radically/?Oct 17 17:49
schestowitzNot just to some black shades. All the Macs I see have very consistent looks.Oct 17 17:49
MinceRit can be skinned, if you pay for third party utilities that do itOct 17 17:49
schestowitzMust be boring as hell.Oct 17 17:49
MinceRat least to some extentOct 17 17:50
schestowitzI like experimenting with new desktops and widgets.Oct 17 17:50
MinceRand i presume it can destabilize the system like doing the same on winblowsOct 17 17:50
MinceRcrApple cultists don't like experimentingOct 17 17:50
MinceRcrApple cultists don't like variety -- it confuses the hell out of themOct 17 17:50
schestowitzLike... I installed superkaramba some weeks ago. Then AWN.... some of them I took off for now... then tried some Metisse while on vacation.Oct 17 17:50
MinceRthey don't recognize the menu if it's in a different colorOct 17 17:50
schestowitzXP can be assimilated to Vista... just shows how similar they are. Skin's surface.... +DRM.Oct 17 17:51
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_Doug?Oct 17 19:43
trmanco?Oct 17 19:45
schestowitzHi again.Oct 17 19:47
_Doughi there ..Oct 17 19:50
trmancohmmOct 17 19:50
trmancoHiOct 17 19:50
joseOKOct 17 19:51
_DougBallmer: wait for Windows 7Oct 17 19:52
_Doughttp://www.builderau.com.au/news/print.htm...Oct 17 19:52
_Doug"Our next release of Windows will be compatible with Vista. The key is let's get on with it. We'll be ready when you want to deploy Windows 7."Oct 17 19:52
schestowitzWait for Linux 3.0Oct 17 19:55
trmancoschestowitz, when?Oct 17 19:55
trmanco:POct 17 19:55
schestowitzIt'll improve performance three-fold, surpass ZFS by leaps and bounds and cook coffee for you!Oct 17 19:55
trmancoGoodOct 17 19:56
trmancoI like the coffee partOct 17 19:56
schestowitztrmanco: don't ask when. Don't. Just wait. Just stay with Linux.Oct 17 19:56
schestowitzI'm just trying to "freeze the market," as Microsoft put it.Oct 17 19:56
trmancoI guess I can also adapt it to make me hot chocolate  :POct 17 19:56
schestowitzNo!Oct 17 19:57
schestowitzThat's not healhy for you.Oct 17 19:57
trmancowhy?Oct 17 19:57
schestowitzThey tried debugging chocolate, but it ended up in kernel panics.Oct 17 19:57
trmancothe chocolate part :POct 17 19:57
trmancodohOct 17 19:57
trmancohmmOct 17 19:57
schestowitzYou can compile it with chocolate if you want and submit kernel oops for future versions.Oct 17 19:57
trmancosome tea will do thenOct 17 19:57
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza says that Linux 4.0 will be based entirely on Mono.Oct 17 19:58
trmancoyeahOct 17 19:58
trmancobut noOct 17 19:58
schestowitzIt's "da best," he says.Oct 17 19:58
schestowitzDa BEST!Oct 17 19:58
trmancoHe doesn't control the Linux kernelOct 17 19:58
trmancono can doOct 17 19:58
trmancoit is up to LinusOct 17 19:58
schestowitzMaybe he can pull a GNOMEOct 17 19:59
schestowitzLike with KDEOct 17 19:59
schestowitzHe'll start something similar from scratch.Oct 17 19:59
schestowitzCall it Migix.Oct 17 19:59
trmancoany info of what Linus thinks of *Mono*PolizationOct 17 19:59
MinceRhe could call it Xenix 2Oct 17 19:59
schestowitzMigix... intending to support ActiveX bootup within 5 years of development.Oct 17 19:59
schestowitzNo, wait...Oct 17 19:59
schestowitzGMigixOct 17 19:59
schestowitzGotta put the G for GNU to make people feel like it's more libreOct 17 20:00
_Douggtg .. see ya ..Oct 17 20:00
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schestowitz.cya.Oct 17 20:00
trmancooooOct 17 20:01
trmancomogixOct 17 20:01
trmancomonixOct 17 20:01
trmancohow about changing Mono to Stereo?Oct 17 20:01
schestowitzDoes ALSA support it?Oct 17 20:04
trmancohmmOct 17 20:05
trmancoI guess soOct 17 20:05
joseballmer: guys, if you want to skip our crap, that's ok, we'll repackage it soon so you won't be able to tell as muchOct 17 20:10
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schestowitzThey hope that hardware manufacturers will write some more drivers for Vista.Oct 17 20:12
schestowitzIt's the same model... they even admitted this and I could pin down articles.Oct 17 20:12
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schestowitz7 is just another Vista without the bad name (yet) and with some more times for h/w and s/w companies to 'catch up'Oct 17 20:12
josei think over the last few months to a year, with yahoo yo-yo-ing and now dropping, that the shareholder deck has been reshuffled a bit (ie, the players have moved their chips around before the next spin of the wheel). It seems these two accept competition as the best course.Oct 17 20:13
joseballmer: "It's clear Yahoo didn't want to sell. They probably still think it's worth more than US$33 a share. I still think it makes sense for their shareholders and ours."Oct 17 20:13
trmanco7 will have NT 6.1, I thinkOct 17 20:14
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trmancobig deal with that *.1Oct 17 20:14
schestowitzjose, it's over for now.Oct 17 20:14
schestowitzGive me 5 minutes to do a post about it (Yahoo et al.)Oct 17 20:15
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schestowitzOne thing I know about "7" is that it'll take ages to appear (they'll just talk about it) and have a new shiny wallpaper.Oct 17 20:15
schestowitzLipstick on a Vista.Oct 17 20:15
joseoooh, lucky "7"Oct 17 20:16
josethat one will wet its bed.. that will be the next trick Microsoft will try.. urinating on command.Oct 17 20:17
MinceRso they'll play FATAL? :>Oct 17 20:18
schestowitzjose: here is that post I told you I would do: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/17/m...Oct 17 20:46
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trmancohttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...Oct 17 21:56
schestowitzYes.Oct 17 21:57
schestowitzI have been calling it Linux 2008.10 for a while... Oct 17 21:57
schestowitzI assumed it was bound to happen sooner or later.Oct 17 21:57
schestowitz2008.7 (2.6.26)Oct 17 21:57
PetoKrausif that's the most important thing kernel devs have to doOct 17 22:01
schestowitzIt's marketing.Oct 17 22:03
schestowitzYou know, like that marketing thing called "Linux Foundation" (some technical aspects too)Oct 17 22:03
trmancowhaatOct 17 22:04
trmancohttp://lists.ximian.com/pipermai...Oct 17 22:04
PetoKrausi mean, come onOct 17 22:04
PetoKraushttp://ask.slashdot.org/article...Oct 17 22:04
schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/bal...Oct 17 22:04
josei may return later or not...Oct 17 22:05
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schestowitztrmanco: from "Thomas Wiest twiest at novell.com "Oct 17 22:06
schestowitzMono... a 'community' project.Oct 17 22:06
trmancololOct 17 22:07
schestowitzI have a stable final release at 0.7.8Oct 17 22:08
schestowitzTotally stable... http://othellomaster.com/OM-5.htmlOct 17 22:08
trmancowhat?Oct 17 22:08
trmancothat version number looks like compizOct 17 22:08
schestowitzCoincidence. Mine predates it.Oct 17 22:10
schestowitzI think Compiz/Fusion is near 0.8Oct 17 22:10
trmancocoolOct 17 22:13
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Oct 17 22:14
PetoKraushmm, the JS benchmark test is coolOct 17 22:18
PetoKrausalright, fuck google and it's fudOct 17 22:19
PetoKraushttp://www.download-google-chrome.or...Oct 17 22:19
schestowitzChrome is WIndows.Oct 17 22:20
PetoKrausnot reallyOct 17 22:21
schestowitzThat's a possible residual of Microsofters landing in Google.Oct 17 22:21
schestowitzIt's not the only example of Google turning its back on standards and such...Oct 17 22:21
PetoKrauschrome is proprietary, it just happens to use chromium's codeOct 17 22:21
schestowitzIs it like RHEL?Oct 17 22:21
PetoKrauswell, did you read the link?Oct 17 22:22
PetoKrausrhel at least gives you full sourcesOct 17 22:22
PetoKrauswell, pretends to do so...Oct 17 22:22
PetoKrausif you compile chromium you don't get chrome. If you compile RHEL provided sources, you should get RHEL, with different graphics ofc (called Centos)Oct 17 22:23
schestowitzIt's the same with Android.Oct 17 22:23
schestowitzAndroid doesn't expose all the code.Oct 17 22:24
PetoKrausyes.Oct 17 22:25
PetoKrausdohOct 17 22:25
PetoKrausanyway, nvidia pisses me off the mostOct 17 22:25
schestowitzBlobvidiaOct 17 22:26
PetoKrausyes. exactlyOct 17 22:26
PetoKrausintel's graphics is not better, thoughOct 17 22:27
schestowitzBlack box in your box.Oct 17 22:27
PetoKrausi hear, that X3100 lack some features...Oct 17 22:27
schestowitzIt does 'pretty things' thoughOct 17 22:27
PetoKrauslike XV doesn't workOct 17 22:27
PetoKrausit's quite funny how AMD ended up being the most-open vendor...Oct 17 22:27
schestowitzYesOct 17 22:28
schestowitzWe need to help AMD now.Oct 17 22:28
schestowitzReward them.Oct 17 22:28
PetoKrausmy open-source driver powered AMD card works a charm. Compositing is ok, direct rendering works quite as wellOct 17 22:28
PetoKrausschestowitz: i'd do so, only if someone would a) give me the €£500; b) make actually PUMA-based laptopsOct 17 22:28
schestowitzLaptops... don't people buy the small stuff now? Sub-notebooks?Oct 17 22:30
schestowitzSmaller, cheaper and for people who unlike you and I do nothing intensive it's fine enough.Oct 17 22:30
PetoKrausthat's exactly where puma comes inOct 17 22:33
PetoKrausintegrated GPU which can handle full HD playbackOct 17 22:34
PetoKrausthe processors are not as powerful as Core 2 Duo's, but, you don't need number crunching (unless on gentoo:P )Oct 17 22:35
TallkenIntel what?Oct 17 22:35
TallkenI have a X3100Oct 17 22:35
Tallkendo you have more info on what you said?Oct 17 22:36
PetoKrausafaik, it doesn't support XvOct 17 22:36
PetoKrausor last time I checked at my friend's machine, it didn'tOct 17 22:36
schestowitzIntel ought to have been embargod already.Oct 17 22:39
schestowitz*goedOct 17 22:39
schestowitzOver in Europe, it's playing weasel at the moment. Those multi-billion-dollar companies think they are above the law and bribe is acceptable.Oct 17 22:40
*Tallken has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 17 23:16
schestowitzDuh-of-the-day: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1645 : Ballmer: ‘Windows 7 will be Vista...Oct 17 23:18
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*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 17 23:19
joseschestowitz, are you familiar with the process of gaining edit access to wikipedia?Oct 17 23:19
schestowitzDo you not get them when you register?Oct 17 23:19
schestowitzI didn't edit much.Oct 17 23:20
schestowitzDepends on the article as well.Oct 17 23:20
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Oct 17 23:26
joseok, so it's a simple matter.. no blood analysis required... thanxOct 17 23:48
josei could ask you more, but i just wanted a general ideaOct 17 23:48
josethought it might be more complicatedOct 17 23:49
schestowitzI only fix very minor stuff like typos.Oct 17 23:52
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