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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 11th, 2008


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schestowitz /Nov 11 00:03
schestowitzGood lesson for P2P and the MAFIAA: 'Nov 11 00:03
schestowitz"We pointed out how little sense it made for various state attorneys general to force Craigslist to charge for the "erotic services" group. It would appear that at least 40 states' attorneys general are not chess players, because they only were thinking one move out... the prostitutes would scatter to numerous other sites.."Nov 11 00:03
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twitterA new twist on moderation gaming at Slashdot. 11 03:49
twitterThey mod my comments up with Funny so they can then label it troll, flambait and other stuff to further sink my account.Nov 11 03:50
twitterThey bragged and sure enough, they had done it.Nov 11 03:51
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Omar87Good evening everyoneNov 11 05:16
Omar87I've been reading some articles here and there for people who seem worried that Windows 7 might eat the market in 2010, and that Linux might be in bad position due to that.Nov 11 05:17
Omar87What do you guys think?Nov 11 05:17
Omar87Hello?Nov 11 05:18
Omar87!gnuNov 11 05:19
Omar87Hello?Nov 11 05:29
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Omar87Anyone wants to talk?Nov 11 07:56
MinceR 11 07:59
schestowitzHey, Omar87.Nov 11 08:07
*schestowitz just woke up a while ago.Nov 11 08:08
Omar87I've been reading some articles here and there for people who seem worried that Windows 7 might eat the market in 2010, and that Linux might be in bad position due to that.Nov 11 08:10
Omar87What do you guys think?Nov 11 08:11
schestowitzIt's fear-mongeringNov 11 08:12
schestowitzA good new response is this: 11 08:12
schestowitzAs Microsoft puts it:: "In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X." -- Microsoft, internal document [PDF] < >Nov 11 08:13
schestowitzMicrosoft is running scared. It threw Vista away, it gives XP almost for free now and it only raves about software that does not exist (Vista 7, AKA SP2, AKA Mojave, AKA ME3, AKA 7apourware).Nov 11 08:13
schestowitzdsgNov 11 08:22
Omar87hehehehe. :)Nov 11 08:22
Omar87Well then I guess, as Red Hat's prophecy states, this should be the "they fight you" phase.Nov 11 08:23
Omar87Just a couple of miles away from the "you win". ;)Nov 11 08:23
schestowitzIt's called "Slog". See the PDF in the link above.Nov 11 08:25
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schestowitzThey try to pretend that they have already won.. even years before having a product, which is just Another Vista.Nov 11 08:25
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Omar87Yeah man, that best proof for that is the way they bribe journalists and bloggers to lie for them.Nov 11 08:27
schestowitzI sent it around yesterday.Nov 11 08:30
schestowitzSome reporters need to know who is in Microsoft's pocket.Nov 11 08:30
schestowitzI was sorry to find out about Jason Brooks, but I gave him (and others) some credit for the disclosure. They hurry up now (pressure from both sides) to return these laptops... at least those who showed up and commented.Nov 11 08:30
schestowitzAs an unnamed journalist told me yesterday: "I'm really rather interested in all those ones we don't know about. Most of the ones you list at least say where they got the machines. I'll be keeping a close eye out for reviews from smaller sites, which aren't as frank."Nov 11 08:31
schestowitzOpen source fanciers finger Beeb's Win 7 'sales presentation' < >Nov 11 08:52
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MinceRgeekingsNov 11 09:37
schestowitzCHANGE: ( Barack Obama plans quick transfer of Guantanamo Bay suspects to US )Nov 11 10:42
schestowitz "How about letting them live in the USA? I'm serious, your administration picked them up, held them without trial, locked them up for years, and now wants to release them to "somewhere"? Many of them aren't allowed back where they came from, others have nothing to go back to."Nov 11 10:43
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MinceR 11 10:50
schestowitzGood for him. He got fired, so he won't be literally FIRED.Nov 11 10:53
schestowitzReport: Man who shared 'Chinese Democracy' to plead guilty < >Nov 11 10:55
schestowitzDangers of SaaS demonstrated: Microsoft Won't Budge on Hotmail Redesign < >Nov 11 10:58
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schestowitzVista 7: the truth... 11 11:01
schestowitzNvidia Rolls out $3,500 Graphics Board, Not for Gamers: "With 102G bytes per second of memory bandwidth, the board has a fill rate of 52 billion texture elements (texels) per second and can draw 300 million triangles per second, Nvidia said." < >Nov 11 11:07
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schestowitz "Otherwise, Windows 7 operates much like Vista. There are subtle visual tweaks here and there, but nothing on the level of the dramatic XP-to-Vista transition. Ironically, Vista users may be more annoyed by the UI changes than users coming from XP."Nov 11 11:13
schestowitzQuite different from the 'bought' reviews: . I know this strategy is a bit abrasive, but in the future (for reference) I need to show people why reviews are claimed to be "positive".Nov 11 11:13
schestowitzSun helps MSN now. We ought to be put off by Sun lending a hand to a convicted monopolist that constantly attacks Free software. Where's the logic? It seems more like Microsoft hubris, characterised by its "Slog tactics" < >.Nov 11 11:20
schestowitzMore MS bribes... Microsoft Steps Up Program To Bribe Users To Search < >Nov 11 11:26
schestowitzBribe with laptops, bribe for use, reviews, bribe to stuff ballots, bribe Nigerian officials to drop Linux... I still put most of the blame on Microsoft, which 'seeds' those gifts to eliminate trust on the Web. It did the same thing to ISO.Nov 11 11:27
schestowitzThey ruin trust in the IT world. I had about 100GB of traffic in last month, but I make no money from it. It's volunteering, it's about truth, and it's a shame if money leads people to accusing me of being a shill. Some people still throw these accusations at PJ... Microsoft is ruining it for many of us.Nov 11 11:27
schestowitzDana goes on the high horse now and pretends that Microsoft is to be ignored < > (not that he ignores them himself). Nov 11 11:28
schestowitzCall me old fashioned and naive, but a lot of the problems we have in Free software are caused by one company and its /ecosystem/, which includes people like Ed Bott and firms like Wipro that change laws, stuff ballots, and sign MoUs.Nov 11 11:28
schestowitzThey, unlike us, serve a company, not freedom. The same cannot be said about Apple fans. Whether we're doing some moral or not does not depend much on the means and I try to be gentle and polite. Sometimes just saying the truth as it is (bluntly, not rudely) can be perceived as impolite. Bruce Byfield calls further and calls advice "an attack". In case it's needed, I catalogued recipients of Vista 7 [sic] laptops (bribes.Nov 11 11:29
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schestowitz*LOL* Microsoft Jack (Schofield) pwn3d: 11 11:35
macabeSome people hate it when you show them what their real behavior is.Nov 11 11:35
schestowitzWhich ones specifically?Nov 11 11:36
macabeIt's like showing them a mirror and they don't like what they see; the laptop bribes.Nov 11 11:36
schestowitzThey know who I am. I don't say what I say anonymously. BTW, don't believe what they say. It was the same story in 2006... they 'lose' the gift only after getting exposed... Microsoft freaks out and readers lose trust in the bloggers.Nov 11 11:38
macabeI know, it's a little ms history repeating. The 90's type marketing.Nov 11 11:39
macabeMS figures if something dirty gets labeled as good enough times, it would then be good.Nov 11 11:41
schestowitz 11 11:42
schestowitz "This sweepstakes the latest salvo in the search wars: If you can't beat 'em, bribe their users. Given its lag in the search market, Microsoft might as well give it a shot."Nov 11 11:43
schestowitz "Microsoft hardly needs an SCO source license. Its license payment to SCO is simply a good-looking way to pass along a bribe, "Nov 11 11:43
schestowitz "Doesn't Microsoft bribe governments in Asia, and didn't United Fruit topple governments in Latin America?"Nov 11 11:46
schestowitz"Oct. 19: The trial begins. Government attorneys accuse Microsoft of using its monopoly position to bully, bribe and attempt to collude with others in the industry, while illegally expanding and protecting its Windows franchise." < >Nov 11 11:47
schestowitzHotmail posts decline in traffic in U.S. < >Nov 11 11:50
schestowitzMinceR would love this one: "The irony here is that Matt professes to be an advocate of open source whilst fawning over the world's most closed operating system. Can we get a LOL?"Nov 11 12:02
MinceRand asay's pathetic excuseNov 11 12:03
schestowitzYup. Seen that too.Nov 11 12:03
schestowitzThe o/s doesn't matter... it's kind of, well.. opens-source-exploiting.Nov 11 12:04
schestowitzIf only he had used FOSS on his Mac (he doesn't AKAIK). Anyway... " "Recycled" computer components are illegally sent to China for poor people to pick apart the toxic components. This is what globalization of commerce really means." < >Nov 11 12:04
schestowitzObama will move to veto Bush laws < >; The high priests of the bubble economy [...] If Barack Obama really wants things to change, he shouldn't be seeking economic advice from Clinton-era officials" < >Nov 11 12:06
schestowitzI never thought I'd say this, but look at a cute fish: 11 12:08
MinceRif only the "cloud" matters, why doesn't he ditch his crApple stuff and use a netbook running linux anyway?Nov 11 12:08
schestowitzMinceR: don't confuse him. He got these excuses all worked out. I mailed him about it in the past... he enjoys the many comments from the Apple 'cultists'... the FOSS posts don't get as much attention ($$)Nov 11 12:09
schestowitzMigi is flogging some Silverlight for the masses (good job, Novell?): 11 12:13
schestowitzWe should start a donation project, amassing a bribe for Microsoft to just hire Miguel de Icaza. It would at leave Novell a little more sane and less harmful to FOSS. He's more effective to them when he works inside 'enemy lines' though.Nov 11 12:15
MinceRnovell would still be a slave to m$ due to the dealsNov 11 12:15
MinceRthe community should just move onNov 11 12:16
MinceRand ignore novellNov 11 12:16
schestowitzSelf-professed M&M (Matt and Miguel)... open-source fans: one misleads and drives the FOSS people to Microsoft and another one to Apple.Nov 11 12:19
schestowitz It would be great if they had shown GNU/Linux, as opposed to Microsoft Linux.Nov 11 12:20
MinceRindeedNov 11 12:24
schestowitz "I have generally found that the features that you find in software such as Gimp or Blender are on par with their commercial counterparts, but the artists i have worked with claim they have no clue how to use Blender ( although i found it pretty intuitive, i guess the programmer mentality came out in the UI )."Nov 11 12:32
schestowitz "The OU provides students with technical support, but only if they use Microsoft software. It advises students that if they don't use a Windows PC they "may have problems accessing the software and data files supplied with course materials". It has produced a 31-page guide to using Microsoft software and extensive demonstrations."Nov 11 12:41
schestowitzOpen University????? "The OU does distribute copies of the Open Source Star Office to all students, but that endorsement pales in comparison to its backing of Microsoft. It has given no such advice, support or endorsement of Ubuntu, the free operating system lauded as the Open Source movement's viable alternative to Windows."Nov 11 12:42
schestowitzTop 10 Most Irritating Expressions in the English language < > "My most hated fake/real word is incentivize."Nov 11 12:48
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schestowitzResponse to Novell's OpenSUSE 'community' manager: " (Puke) "Not only do we have to deal with thousands of kids named Barak, we have to deal with "community" being the new tech buzzword. Stop the ride, I want to get off."Nov 11 13:26
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schestowitzResponse to "Despite weak economy, strong demand for community managers" < > ["Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier is a longtime FOSS advocate, and currently works for Novell as the community manager for openSUSE."]Nov 11 13:27
schestowitzHey, anivar, kapipi, what's up?Nov 11 13:27
anivarschestowitz:  nothing new :-)Nov 11 13:27
anivarhot news here is some political parties trying to hijack Free software MovementNov 11 13:28
anivarAnyway it is good if it is in a Free Software wayNov 11 13:29
schestowitzHijack? How so?Nov 11 13:29
schestowitzI read 3 weeks ago about a party supporting Free software though.Nov 11 13:29 had an article.Nov 11 13:29
schestowitzNow is a good time top tap minds because people are looking for aNov 11 13:30
schestowitzfor change.Nov 11 13:30
MinceRQ: What's the difference between Lem's Solaris and Sun's Solaris? A: One's an alien presence that drives all who encounter it mad, and the other one's been made into a movie by Andrei Tarkovsky.Nov 11 13:41
schestowitzI've never tried Solaris, but I connect to a Solaris storage server sometimes. As for the film, I watch it with my g/f at the time.Nov 11 13:45
schestowitz*watchedNov 11 13:45
PetoKrausschestowitz: dunno if you know, but this one is nice: 11 13:47
schestowitzIt sounds like old news because it happens all the time. :-)Nov 11 13:49
schestowitzAVG virus scanner removes critical Windows file < > It's NOT a bug, it's a FEATURE.Nov 11 13:50
PetoKrauswell yesNov 11 13:51
PetoKraususer32 can be considered virusNov 11 13:51
PetoKrausPEBKACNov 11 13:51
anivarschestowitz:  it is a diferent story. Left parties see Free software is a way to mobilse Knowledge workers to trade unionsNov 11 13:55
anivarbut they are trying to do it in party way . not free software way. All process to get the power structures first or make the structures first policy. but they cant achive it without contributingNov 11 13:57
anivar The story is about a right wing partyNov 11 13:57
schestowitzThey appeal to public using buzzwords many times. At least Cuba and Brazil put their money where their mouth is. I don't know about India though. From what I can gather, Microsoft India bribes quite a lot (incentivises) to harm Freedom. It's a mess internally at Microsoft India.Nov 11 13:57
anivarschestowitz: Microsoft is starting usergroups in IndiaNov 11 13:58
anivarsee  for an exampleNov 11 13:58
schestowitzBlechNov 11 13:58
schestowitzThey dilute the notion of "Linux Users Group" (LUG)Nov 11 13:58
schestowitzLike "shared source"Nov 11 13:58
schestowitzOr 'Open' XMLNov 11 13:59
schestowitzHaha. Kerala. "Kerala Microsoft Users Group" Bunch of people who are recruited to loot Kerala along with Microsoft? Nov 11 13:59
schestowitz"Microsoft & INETA (international .NET association) provide the technical materials (CDs, books, online resources etc) , infrastructure support and faculties for conducting a statewide seminar drive, which would educate and inform the public and the student community about the Microsoft Technologies."Nov 11 13:59
schestowitzI saw something about them trying to use donations to fight Free(dom) software in KeralaNov 11 14:00
anivarschestowitz:  They posted invitation in a lug recentlyNov 11 14:01
anivarI replied as followsNov 11 14:01
anivarI will be interested ifNov 11 14:01
anivarK-MUG's agenda isNov 11 14:01
anivar   *  fix the file system security of your OS and save the world fromNov 11 14:01
anivarvirus menaceNov 11 14:01
anivar   * release your software under a free software license, andNov 11 14:01
anivarcontinue to rule the world, we will make you people as our heros.Nov 11 14:01
anivar   * provide support for free and open standards.Nov 11 14:01
anivar   * Stop patenting prior art and calling it innovation. In fact stopNov 11 14:01
anivarpatenting software.Nov 11 14:01
anivar   * use REAL technical innovation to let more people access andNov 11 14:01
anivarcreate knowledge effortlessly, and not to restrict access. That is toNov 11 14:01
anivarsay avoid DRM.Nov 11 14:01
schestowitzI'm going to do a post about this later.Nov 11 14:02
anivarthe website says there is meeting in cochin on Nov 15 th. A National conference on Free software is happening on same city on 15th and 18thNov 11 14:03
anivar15th and 16th (typoNov 11 14:03
schestowitzJust a coincidence?Nov 11 14:04
schestowitzLike the coincidences they do all the time?Nov 11 14:04
schestowitzOr the parties they have next door?Nov 11 14:04
anivar 11 14:04
schestowitzOr the XBox parties and boats that 'collide' with the launch of PS3?Nov 11 14:04
anivarheheNov 11 14:05
anivarschestowitz:  Did u heared anything on IGF (Internet governance forum)Nov 11 14:05
schestowitzit's always just a coincidence. The drug deal just 'happens' to be near the schoolyard when the kids finish school precisely at 2 PM.Nov 11 14:05
schestowitzI haven't no.Nov 11 14:06
anivarit is is happening in India (Hyderabad) this year. If you find something interesting plz pointNov 11 14:06
schestowitzOKNov 11 14:07
schestowitzI've got to go now. Was supposed to leave a while ago actually.Nov 11 14:07
anivarschestowitz:  okNov 11 14:09
anivarschestowitz: 11 14:18
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joseschestowitz, a link for when you come back. Not sure the significance of it, but I dislike all deals with Microsoft. Microsoft might gain a lot during a recession if companies in trouble turn towards them.Nov 11 15:13
jose 11 15:13
jose>> Through the agreement with Microsoft, computer users installing the Java software will be able to check a box to get the MSN toolbar, too. (As the programs download, Sun also opens a window promoting OpenOffice programs — a free competitor to Microsoft Office software.)Nov 11 15:13
jose>> Sun has struck similar deals with Google and Yahoo in the past. The Yahoo agreement, which offers a Yahoo search toolbar to people who use the Firefox browser, will continue, but the Google deal is ending, said Sun's vice president of Java marketing, Eric Klein.Nov 11 15:13
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twittergood morning.  Slashdot covered a Kennedy article about Vista 7 11 16:34
twitter-=SLAP=-Nov 11 16:34
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PetoKrausbeen there, modded that.Nov 11 16:44
_dougMattrick adamant he invented avatarsNov 11 16:45
_doug 11 16:45
_doug"I'm claiming to have invented avatars! I did 4D Sports Boxing! Do you know what 4D Boxing was? Hey, you should be writing this! That was me,"Nov 11 16:45
_doug"A bug in the code for Google's first Android phone causes it to reboot when users type in the word 'reboot"Nov 11 16:54
_doug 11 16:54
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_doug"Thomas Edison's business model was very similar to ours" , Nathan MyhrvoldNov 11 17:15
_doug 11 17:15
twitterNot even Tesla would agree with that.Nov 11 17:16
_dougWell yea, which is why Edison had to sell a dual licensed product the 'Ediswan', after Swan discovered Edison borrowed his design .. :)Nov 11 17:16
_doug"In the year 1883 the Edison & Swan United Electric Light Company, Limited was formed."Nov 11 17:16
_doug 11 17:16
_dougEdison did pre-announce his design ..Nov 11 17:17
_doug"in 1875, Swan returned to consider the problem of the light bulb with the aid of a better vacuum and a carbonised thread"Nov 11 17:17
_doug 11 17:17
_doug 11 17:20
_dougAll wrong, it was Nathan Myhrvolds IVentures that 'invented' the lightbulb ... :)Nov 11 17:21
_doug'there's a new model, called "invention capital," that's similar to venture capital in that "you create an algorithmic way that people can get funded."', Nathan MyhrvoldNov 11 17:23
_dougI have invented an algorithmic method of inventing a computational device that understands and reacts to the spoken word at a high level of comprehension ..Nov 11 17:25
_dougLike, I could utter the phrase 'make me tea, Earl Gray' and the computational device would congure up a-cup-of-tea out of thin air ..Nov 11 17:26
_dougIt would understand not to convert my molecules into a cup of Earl Gray .. :)Nov 11 17:27
_dougIs this satire ?Nov 11 17:30
_doug"Before Gates arrived on the computer scene in the mid-1970s, a wide variety of different machines cohabitated, but none of them could communicate with one another, and they had little in common. Gates's first bolt of genius was to unify them with Microsoft's BASIC programming language."Nov 11 17:31
_doug 11 17:31
_dougnone of them could communicate ? because of a lack of basic ???Nov 11 17:31
_dougDoes Darpa know of this ?Nov 11 17:32
twitterBASIC.  Yes, this is still how I email my friends.  I send them a floppy by US Post.  When they boot the floppy, it displays my message and invites a response.Nov 11 17:34
_doug"The ARPANET went into labor on August 30, 1969,"Nov 11 17:34
_doug 11 17:34
twitterThis is superior, by far, to Unix talk, mail and other commands.Nov 11 17:34
_dougtwitter: haaaaa HaaaaaaaaaNov 11 17:34
_doug"Barbarians Led by Bill Gates" haven't read it .. seems a hoot .. written in the currrent stype of bad-faction .. in that it read like a bad screen play .. I wonder who is going to play NAthan and Bill in the movie ?Nov 11 17:35
_doug"Nathan Myhrvold .. used the DVORAK keyboard, designed in 1936, which allowed him to type up to 100 percent faster"Nov 11 17:39
_doug 11 17:39
_doug"less than ten years later, Microsoft did it again. It brought graphics to the PC and set the new standard with Windows"Nov 11 17:41
_dougWhy isn't this statement true ?Nov 11 17:41
_dougDoes anyone remember Doom on DR-DOS ?Nov 11 17:42
_dougWOW .. this one is a hoot ...Nov 11 17:43
_doug"In early 1992, they had established a project called Homer  .. it was this initiative that eventually gave rise to the Remote Information Protocol."Nov 11 17:43
_doug"The idea behind RIP, a concept that Netscape would later realize so beautifully, was to create a graphical user interface that would allow computer users to connect to information providers, much like today's World Wide Web"Nov 11 17:43
_dougI didn't know Netscape ripped off Microsoft over the browser and the WWW ???Nov 11 17:44
schestowitztwitter: thanks, I saw that earlier.Nov 11 17:44
_dougIf that's the case, then why did MS have to buy a browser from Spyglass ?Nov 11 17:44
_dougschest: get a load of those quotes ..Nov 11 17:45
schestowitzKennedy attacked Linux before, but he's doing a good job saying the truth about Vista and Vista 7 now.Nov 11 17:45
schestowitz_doug: I saw the avatar article. I'll post it later.Nov 11 17:45
_doug"If Microsoft had simply bundled the RIP technology in the next version of its operating systems, the World Wide Web may have evolved in a very different way, leaving nothing for Netscape to create."Nov 11 17:45
schestowitzThere's more on Gates and his potential trolling firm.Nov 11 17:45
_doug 11 17:45
_dougit's old but good ...Nov 11 17:46
_dougHow BG and Nathan really invented everything ?Nov 11 17:46
_dougWhich begs the question as to why they didn't patent the WWW ? as they invented it way back ...Nov 11 17:46
schestowitz_doug: will you IMPLEMENT that tea-making algorithm?Nov 11 17:49
schestowitzWasn't doomed originally developed for OS/2?Nov 11 17:51
schestowitz_doug: Bill's new patents are related to the Web.Nov 11 17:52
schestowitzMany of the trolling suits these days seem to target SaaSy companies like Digg, Google, Amazon...Nov 11 17:53
schestowitzI say this cause you brought up the Web and Bill's new 'startup' (probably troll) seems to be obtaining patents in this area.Nov 11 17:53
schestowitzAnd then there's the speculation that Microsoft wants Yahoo for its patents... to attack Google with.Nov 11 17:53
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schestowitzInfoW0rld just got in touch with me. They do an article on MicrosoftNovell.  I'd be doing an interview, preferably by E-mail. I hope that Shane responds to them as well.Nov 11 18:02
twitterWinTel Press Loves You.  :-DNov 11 18:05
schestowitzYes, I wondered why they had contacted me after the things I said about them (and him specifically)Nov 11 18:05
schestowitzSame with /.Nov 11 18:05
twitterIn other news, M$ flirts with another 52 week low,  All they have to lose is another $0.25Nov 11 18:07
schestowitzThere's no public disclosure re: buyback pace.Nov 11 18:14
schestowitzWhich is interesting cause you'd think a publicly-traded company needs to tell /WHEN/ it buys and approaches debt.Nov 11 18:15
schestowitzLack of such disclosure is room for mischief and inside-trading.Nov 11 18:15
schestowitz 52Wk Low:  20.65  Nov 11 18:16
_douglater ..Nov 11 18:18
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twitterhere is some welcome and long overdue news 11 18:33
twitterHow nice of Citigroup to stop kicking people out of their houses!Nov 11 18:33
twitterlook out for bullshit about "self regulation" to make the rounds instead of putting reasonable caps on interest ratesNov 11 18:35
schestowitzI woke up with the radio this morning, as usual.Nov 11 18:35
twitter" 4 million US borrowers are at least one payment behind on their loans, with 500,000 in the process of losing their property."Nov 11 18:36
schestowitzWhile still semi-asleep I could help listening to and remembering what Gordon brown said...Nov 11 18:36
twitteroh, bad dreams.Nov 11 18:36
schestowitzSomething along the lines of the bailout kicking off the ecnomyNov 11 18:36
twitterbad jokeNov 11 18:36
schestowitzWhich I laughed about at the gym this afternoon.... how is making people pay tax through their noses "kicking off the economy"Nov 11 18:37
schestowitzMaybe he meant "ripping off" the ecnomy.Nov 11 18:37
schestowitzAs in, letting 'the people' pay for the greed of the corrupt people who never got time in prison.Nov 11 18:37
twittertaxes so bankers can make their bonus.  trickle down, you know, like being pissed on is so motivating.  Expect a boom!Nov 11 18:37
schestowitz"US government's $700bn (£444bn) bail-out fund. ..." Mini money, eh?Nov 11 18:38
trmanco 11 19:15 won't give nothing for 11 19:15
schestowitzI'm trying to find other lookup tools.Nov 11 19:15
schestowitz└─(19:15 $)─> whoisNov 11 19:15
schestowitzbash: whois: command not foundNov 11 19:15
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twitterDomain ID:D153405496-LRORNov 11 19:33
twitterDomain Name:K-MUG.ORGNov 11 19:33
twitterCreated On:21-Jul-2008 04:07:27 UTCNov 11 19:33
twitterLast Updated On:20-Sep-2008 03:52:20 UTCNov 11 19:33
twitterExpiration Date:21-Jul-2009 04:07:27 UTCNov 11 19:33
twitterSponsoring, Inc. (R91-LROR)Nov 11 19:33
*twitter has quit (Excess Flood)Nov 11 19:33
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellNov 11 19:33
schestowitzYes, I got it.Nov 11 19:34
schestowitzThanks.Nov 11 19:34
*libervisco has quit ("Remember, remember the fifth of november...")Nov 11 19:41
twitterugh, fat cats at AIG lap it up again, 11 19:48
schestowitz"Even as the company was pleading the federal government for another $40 billion dollars in loans, AIG sent top executives to a secret gathering at a luxury resort in Phoenix last week."Nov 11 19:52
schestowitzReward for corruption, while it lasts.Nov 11 19:52
schestowitzLove the headline: "Wall Street of Shame"Nov 11 19:53
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovellNov 11 20:09
schestowitzHiring Slows for Indian IT Services and Call Centers < > Nov 11 20:11
schestowitz"All things considered, I'd rather stick with my Linux desktops and Mac OS X. Windows 7 looks to be better than Vista right now, but no one knows when it will actually arrive , and in the meantime, I have work to do. But the fact is, like New Coke back in its day, my first taste of Vista SE is leaving a bad taste in my mouth." 11 20:15
schestowitzAnother man tries to flip an argument upside down: Netbooks: Opportunity for Windows, Threat to Linux < >Nov 11 20:19
schestowitzSure, sure... Microsoft needed an 'opportunity' to sell Windows (XP) for just  $0-19  to 'save' it from Linux's domination of large desktops...yeah...Nov 11 20:20
schestowitzLogic all backwards... part the sort of slog that speaks of Vista 7 vapourware too... similar to Preston Gralla's FUD.Nov 11 20:21
*libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellNov 11 20:26
trmanco 11 20:34
trmanco"Novell has launched a "competitive replacement" program aimed at luring Red Hat and CentOS users to its SUSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) product. Through the program, Novell will support customers' RHEL or CentOS servers for up to two years, while the customer migrates to SLES."Nov 11 20:34
schestowitzEndorsed by Microsoft?Nov 11 20:35
trmancoDon't knowNov 11 20:35
trmancohttp://www.debian-administra...Nov 11 20:38
trmancoBooting Debian in 14 secondsNov 11 20:38
schestowitzIt was a rhetorical question. :-)Nov 11 20:40
_dougWhere did Novell learn that dirty trick ..Nov 11 20:44
_dougWhy not offer the same deal to Windows-Server users ?Nov 11 20:44
_dougWhat would happen if RHEL offered the same deal to Windows-server users ?Nov 11 20:44
schestowitz_doug: has Novell (or Microsoft) done this before?Nov 11 20:45
schestowitzLike... Microsoft supporting Lotus?Nov 11 20:45
schestowitz 11 20:45
schestowitzDoes anyone have E-mail addresses of Novell execs like Dragoon, Steinman or Hovo Sapient?Nov 11 20:47
trmanco*LOL*Nov 11 20:52
trmancoM% already advertising IE8Nov 11 20:52
trmancoomgNov 11 20:52
_dougdone this before: only Ellisons Oracle ..Nov 11 20:52
trmancoHas the final version been released?Nov 11 20:52
_dougThey did offer money to peopel to destroy their Lotus' floppy disks ..Nov 11 20:53
trmanco -> Saw the ad here btwNov 11 20:53
schestowitztrmanco: they just market vapourwareNov 11 20:58
_dougMicrosoft breaks HotMail for Linux users? ..Nov 11 20:58
_doug 11 20:58
trmancoschestowitz, as always :-P Nothing newNov 11 20:58
_dougwhere's the interop~1 ?Nov 11 20:58
schestowitz“In the face of strong competition [e.g. Firefox, Opera, Safari], Evangelism’s focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X.” 11 20:58
schestowitzOnly Microsoft uses this word "Evangelism". It's legalised shilling with the substring "angel"Nov 11 20:59
schestowitz_doug: that's what *I* said. :-) 11 20:59
*libervisco has quit ("Remember, remember the fifth of november...")Nov 11 21:01
_dougI see .. keep 'upgrading' so as the current browsers break with hotmail :)Nov 11 21:01
schestowitz "Londoners came out top as "best regional" users of the apostrophe, with a 78 per cent hit rate. Rather agreeably, the 55+ age range came bottom of the class nationwide, while 25 to 34-year-olds managed to match the capital with 78 per cent of correct answers - surprising, the Telegraph notes, since the latter have not had the benefit of the "proper" Nov 11 21:02
schestowitzold-school grammar guidance enjoyed by the former."Nov 11 21:02
_dougDid anyone at port25 not test Hotmail with Firefox running on Linux ?Nov 11 21:03
schestowitzIts so stupid that it's sources are the Telegraph and it's Microsoft Jack s [sic sic sic]Nov 11 21:03
MinceR_doug: are they even allowed to use those?Nov 11 21:04
schestowitzPardon me Microsoft Windows 7, your Firefox is showing : 11 21:04 promoting Firefox 3! : 11 21:04
schestowitzMicrosoft tells Mac users to get Firefox : 11 21:04
schestowitzMicrosoft PR bunnies love Firefox - shocka : 11 21:05
schestowitzFirefox at Mix08 : 11 21:05
_doug"Is Microsoft working to better interface with some of the Linux and OSS products? You bet"Nov 11 21:05
_doug 11 21:05
schestowitzIE7 users: beware! Microsoft telling their staff not to touch it... : 11 21:05
schestowitz[Humour] Microsoft's Future Former CEO Throws Tables During Interview : 11 21:06
*libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellNov 11 21:06
schestowitzMicrosoft adCenter Suggests Accessing Site Using Firefox! : 11 21:06
trmancoschestowitz, 404Nov 11 21:07
schestowitzTry Web ArchiveNov 11 21:07
schestowitz 11 21:07
_dougre: Novell offering transitional support to RHEL users, is this a case of Linux not cutting into Unix sales .. as per the orthodoxy as uttered in Redmond ?Nov 11 21:08
trmanco 11 21:09
trmanco404'ed by MSNov 11 21:10
trmanco...Nov 11 21:10
_dougThat latest Novell dodge, attacking REHL by bribing RHs own customers .. enough is enough ...Nov 11 21:15
_dougI did think Roys Boycott Novell call-to-arms msg was a little over the top ..Nov 11 21:16
_dougBut this is the final straw~1 ...Nov 11 21:16
schestowitztrmanco: heh. not because of Microsoft.Nov 11 21:19
schestowitzI might have a copyNov 11 21:19
schestowitzOh, it's 2007. I make copies only since 2008 or so.Nov 11 21:20
trmancoschestowitz, why did they /delete/ or 404'ed it then?Nov 11 21:20
schestowitzNo, no local copy (just checked). I have a snippet though.Nov 11 21:20
trmancodatabase or permalink porbems?Nov 11 21:20
trmancoproblems*Nov 11 21:20
schestowitz 11 21:21
schestowitzMicrosoft Steers Firefox Users Wrong On XP SP1Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| After the Oct. 10 security updates, Microsoft will no longer distributeNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| fixes to Windows XP SP1 users, including any meant to patch IE 6 SP1,Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| the browser edition included with the pack. In addition, Windows XP SP1Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| users will not be able to update to the more secure IE 7 when thatNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| releases in final form later this year.Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz`----Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz 11 21:21
schestowitz  End of signed messageNov 11 21:21
schestowitzGoogle the following...Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz...Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| At a dead end here, I decided to contact the Microsoft adCenterNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Support center at their toll-free number, 800-518-5689. WithinNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| minutes I was connected to a woman named Helen from their callNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| center in Seattle. I explained what the situation was to Helen,Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| and immediately she wanted to help troubleshoot the problem.Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz|Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Helen asked me if I had other Web browsers installed on myNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| computer, such as Firefox.Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Priceless! I asked Helen if I heard her correctly? I askedNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| her if she wanted me to try to access the sign up page usingNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Firefox. She again, prompted me to load the page in FirefoxNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| just to see if there were any compatibility issues usingNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Internet Explorer. During this conversation, I couldn't helpNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| but express to Helen how bizarre it is that a MicrosoftNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| adCenter Support representative is asking me to load aNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| Microsoft related page using Firefox. At this point, justNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| to fulfill my curiosity, I decided to go along with thisNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| and access the page using Firefox 1.5. After waiting a fewNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| minutes for the browser to load, I accessed the sign upNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| page and filled out the application and transmitted theNov 11 21:21
schestowitz| form. Sure enough, IT WORKED!Nov 11 21:21
schestowitz`----Nov 11 21:21
schestowitzThank goodness Microsoft is 'saving' the Keralans from this Lunix thing... 11 21:23
trmancoLOLNov 11 21:23
schestowitzoes NASA use Sony batteries? 11 21:24
schestowitzDoesNov 11 21:24
schestowitz 11 21:25
schestowitz ( Google Not Immune to Economy? )Nov 11 21:29
schestowitz"It looks like Google isn't going to simultaneously lose its CEO and gain a powerful friend in Washington.  Eric Schmidt has said in no uncertain terms that he won't become America's first CTO." < >Nov 11 21:30
schestowitzD'oh, I missed it.  "Friday 7th - Sunday 9th November Manchester" < >Nov 11 21:34
schestowitzThis one fun: Here is how it goes: trmanco put the link in IRC, I later mailed it to PJ who put it in Groklaw News Picks, which Egan reads regularly and writes about, so here he is passing it into the Inquirer. It's a nice chain....Nov 11 21:47
trmanco:-PNov 11 21:49
schestowitzOUCH! 11 21:49
schestowitz"Oh my, they talk about .NET Framework 4.0 and about giving “developers access to Microsoft’s flagship tools solution at a reduced price in the struggling economy!” Gee. Hard times for Mono, should they want to match .NET Framework 4.0." < >Nov 11 21:55
schestowitz"And increasingly irrational things for the humankind as a whole — you design an operating system in C/C++, then you tell the developers that they should ONLY write code in C# or ASP.NET! (Oh, wait, there's also VB.NET...) That's a nice one. The masses are coding, the masses are coding..." Yes, free labour. Gates spoke about ti for decades.Nov 11 21:56
schestowitzMr. Dilbert says: "No one wants the economy to crumble. But having a reason to love your neighbor a litter better doesn't suck. If we can feed everyone - and I think we can - things will be fine." 11 21:57
trmancoBooting Debian in 14 seconds is nice too :-PNov 11 22:00
schestowitz"It's not coincidence that Microsoft still maintains that GNU/Linux infringes on some 200 of its sacred software patents – and yet is strangely coy about naming them, since it doesn't want its bluff called." 11 22:01
trmancoSue who for what?Nov 11 22:03
trmanco:-PNov 11 22:03
schestowitzSue the sky to sell Vista 7Nov 11 22:03
trmancoI don't think that M$ has any employee with the b**ls to analyze 6 million line of Linux Kernel codeNov 11 22:04
trmancoIt might do some serious brain damage... all that well written and non confusing code :-PNov 11 22:05
MinceRthey aren't used to reading code anywayNov 11 22:05
schestowitzCorruption in the US, part 100: (Bloomberg Sues The Fed For More Transparency Over $2 Trillion In Emergency Loans)Nov 11 22:05
schestowitzMinceR: they wait for the advisories. You know the motto: if you can't see it (the flaw), it does not exist.Nov 11 22:06
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Nov 11 22:12
_doug"Microsoft denies paying contractor to abandon Linux"Nov 11 22:22
_doug 11 22:22
schestowitzSeen it.Nov 11 22:22
schestowitzThey tried it before.Nov 11 22:22
_doug"Although a joint marketing agreement was drafted to document the best practices for using technology in education, it was never executed .. It became clear, he added, that one customer wanted a Linux OS"Nov 11 22:23
schestowitz 11 22:23
schestowitzMicrosoft Denies Threatening to Withdraw Funding < >Nov 11 22:23
_dougDoes that mean he wouldn't accept the bribe .. er fee ?Nov 11 22:23
schestowitzThese entire IDG articles are ONLY POSTED as some sort of FORMAL Microsoft denial.  I can it revisionism.Nov 11 22:24
schestowitz_doug: it's IDG..Nov 11 22:24
schestowitzIDC.. whatever... Wintel press.Nov 11 22:24
schestowitzI'm actually replying to an E-mail from them right now. I preferred doing the interview via E-mailNov 11 22:25
_dougIt'll be interesting to read ... are they going to pay you ?Nov 11 22:26
_doug"Novell Tuesday took aim at rival and Linux market leader Red Hat"Nov 11 22:27
schestowitz_doug: No, no pay.Nov 11 22:27
schestowitzURL?Nov 11 22:28
schestowitzI need to catch up with it later.Nov 11 22:28
_doug 11 22:29
_dougIt's a win-win for you-know-who ..Nov 11 22:30
_dougpurrr .. purrrrr .. purrrrrrrrrrr ....Nov 11 22:31
MinceRLord Voldemort?Nov 11 22:31
_doughttp://angel1hinata.files.wordpres...Nov 11 22:32
MinceR:DNov 11 22:32
_doug"I dont know how to use my email."Nov 11 22:33
_doug"You need to upgrade your IQ a few points. Try listening to classical music."Nov 11 22:33
_doug“The moral of the story is that crime doesn't pay..... directly, it goes through escrow.”Nov 11 22:33
_dougDilbert - May 2nd 2006Nov 11 22:34
_douggo find it yourself .. I'm offf ....Nov 11 22:34
*_doug has quit ()Nov 11 22:34
twitter  :'(  " The OU provides students with technical support, but only if they use Microsoft software. It advises students that if they don't use a Windows PC they "may have problems accessing the software and data files supplied with course materials". It has produced a 31-page guide to using Microsoft software and extensive demonstrations. It has produNov 11 23:16
twitterKind of like the Free University's compiler - it was not free, so RMS wrote GCC.Nov 11 23:17
schestowitzYes, I saw that.Nov 11 23:17
schestowitzI'm falling behind now cause of that interview..Nov 11 23:17
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellNov 11 23:23
MinceRgnNov 11 23:24
schestowitzDana pisses off Sun now (watch image): 11 23:40
twitterhere's a write up on Bill Gate's new patent troll business, 11 23:43
schestowitzThey are sick.Nov 11 23:44
schestowitzIt's a good summary.Nov 11 23:44
schestowitztwitter: do you want to proofread the interview text?Nov 11 23:47
schestowitz[just a quick read... spotting typos along the way]Nov 11 23:48
twittersure, shoot it over.  when do you need it done?Nov 11 23:48
schestowitzQuickly, but let me just do another pass through it.Nov 11 23:48
schestowitzI do it quite quickly because he'll quote selectively.Nov 11 23:48
schestowitzHe'll weave that in with Novell and Microsoft executives.Nov 11 23:48
twitterhow soon do you need it back?Nov 11 23:49
schestowitzA quick read would do. I'll pass it to you in 5 minutes...?Nov 11 23:51
twitterI'll look for it.Nov 11 23:52
schestowitzThanksNov 11 23:52
schestowitzOK, sent (I didn't proofread)Nov 11 23:57
twittergot itNov 11 23:57
schestowitzIt has typos.Nov 11 23:59
schestowitzAnd needs improving, but I worry that spending too much time of it will be a distraction.Nov 11 23:59

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