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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 28th, 2008


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MinceRgnDec 28 02:27
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mib_rl8vjaholaDec 28 02:55
tessiermib_rl8vja: hola. que pasa?Dec 28 03:05
mib_rl8vjanot much just hanging outDec 28 03:09
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schestowitz "Mike Connell, formerly Karl Rove's chief IT consultant, died in an airplane "accident". He was going to testify about illegally deleted emails and vote-stealing in 2004."Dec 28 07:49
tessierAs a pilot I'd like to know more about that.Dec 28 08:55
tessierOdds are it was an accident thoughDec 28 08:55
tessierIt would be hard to stage an accident with an airplane. They do a pretty good investigation. I the plane were sabotaged it would likely be found out.Dec 28 08:56
schestowitzDr. Kelly..Dec 28 08:57
tessier?Dec 28 09:07
schestowitz 28 09:09
schestowitz "The British media has become embroiled in yet another set of distortions regarding the death of British government weapons inspector Dr. David Kelly in July 2003. Kelly died in mysterious circumstances in the woods near his home in Oxfordshire."Dec 28 09:09
schestowitz"Kelly was Britain's foremost expert on biological weapons, with direct access to WMD intelligence on Iraq. In the months leading up to his death, he had become increasingly skeptical regarding Iraq's alleged WMDs. "It was Dr Kelly who exposed claims by President George Bush, Tony Blair and Colin Powell that mobile biological warfare units had been found in Iraq as false." (Independent, 25 July 2003)"Dec 28 09:10
schestowitz'According to the Hutton inquiry report:      "Dr Kelly took his own life... [T]he principal cause of death was bleeding from incised wounds to his left wrist which Dr Kelly had inflicted on himself with the knife found beside his body''. 'Dec 28 09:10
tessierSounds like he had already squeeled. Why kill him then?Dec 28 09:10
tessierAnd did he make the cuts down or across?Dec 28 09:10
schestowitzI'm not suggesting itDec 28 09:11
schestowitzThat's just a top result that came up in GoogleDec 28 09:11
schestowitzNot that I look at it though, I wonder, "what kind of an idiot kills self with a knife?Dec 28 09:11
schestowitzWhat is this, like falling on one's sword?Dec 28 09:11
schestowitz"The inquiry led by Lord Hutton pointed to "suicide" as the cause of death, in contradiction with the results of the autopsy. "Suicide was never proved, either by the Coroner or Lord Hutton, as required by law". (See Dr. Stephen Frost, et al, Global Research, 28 November 2006)  "Dec 28 09:12
schestowitz "David Kelly told the BBC that it could take Saddam Hussein "days or weeks" to mobilise weapons of mass destruction, not the 45 minutes claimed in the government's Iraq weapons dossier."Dec 28 09:14
schestowitzWell, if only they /HAD/ WoMDDec 28 09:14
schestowitzIIRC, they only had means for producing some, but no weapons.Dec 28 09:15
MinceRgeekingsDec 28 10:19
schestowitzThe Enderle shill is at it again... attacking Linux... "What is kind of interesting with netbooks so far is that the Linux configurations have not done well with vendors reporting some of the highest return rates they have ever seen in a PC-like product for those running this platform." < >Dec 28 10:46
schestowitzThe writer is a Microsoft shill and 'buddy' of Ballmer. 28 10:46
schestowitzHere's Novell's slandering of OpenOffice: 28 10:50
schestowitzNew Novelldows crash video:  Ubuntu vs WindowsDec 28 11:00
schestowitzOOps. 28 11:00
trmancoschestowitz, identity theft :|Dec 28 11:02
trmancoon COLADec 28 11:02
schestowitzTwiceDec 28 11:02
trmancoyesDec 28 11:02
trmancoidiotsDec 28 11:02
trmancothe one faking tattoo almost caught meDec 28 11:03
trmancothe second one faking you was no problem, good thing you use a pgp sigDec 28 11:03
schestowitz*gasp*Dec 28 11:04
schestowitzSome error in BNDec 28 11:04
schestowitzDB connectionDec 28 11:04
schestowitzI needed to sort things out to reduce spam this morning.Dec 28 11:04
schestowitzSO I disabled all comment, except for in new postsDec 28 11:04
trmancoLOL BSOD with Novell software on WindowsDec 28 11:05
trmancohaDec 28 11:05
trmancoschestowitz, I usually log into phpmyadmin and repair and then optimize the tablesDec 28 11:06
schestowitzI'm seeing a lot of BS in Tech Blorge todayDec 28 11:08
schestowitzThis is exhausting.Dec 28 11:08
schestowitzThe media talks about "intellectual property" as a legitimate thing time after time after so time that people will incapable of thinking about it differently. Dec 28 11:08
schestowitzThe editors, who get their wages from people like Bill Gates, just carry on reciting words like "pirates", the indisputable assumption that Windows is user friendly and that success is defined only in terms of wealth.Dec 28 11:09
schestowitzI'm going to write about itDec 28 11:09
schestowitzI've just asked the editor of some siteDec 28 11:09
schestowitzLet's see if they are willing to gut MicrosoftDec 28 11:09
schestowitzMore needs to be written about the slimy sideDec 28 11:10
schestowitzNo more "just good news" and announcementDec 28 11:10
schestowitzCowardice in the press ought to end.Dec 28 11:10
schestowitzTake OIN for example. Just for the record, I was never huge fans of OIN’s “Linux Defenders”, so it makes OIN view us as slightly hostile. What does that mean? It's hard to publish a critique.Dec 28 11:10
trmancoit will end when microfoot enters bankruptcyDec 28 11:11
schestowitzMainstream 'media' is bad at criticing people or companies because it doesn't pay for billsDec 28 11:11
schestowitzThink about itDec 28 11:11
schestowitzIf you run a site that promote something, like PhoronixDec 28 11:11
schestowitzThen you get free h/w to carry on doing this stuffDec 28 11:11
schestowitzThere's not much for media (esp. commercial) to gain from saying the ugly truthDec 28 11:11
schestowitzThe ugly truth about publishing selling outDec 28 11:12
schestowitzThe corruption among analysts, aka shillnalysts or fanalystsDec 28 11:12
schestowitzI think I'll stick with BN instead of publishing elsewhere, but this doesn't pay the bills, so you're stuck right where you startedDec 28 11:12
schestowitzAnyway, I ain't sure where this rant is going. ;-)Dec 28 11:12
schestowitztrmanco: Microsoft going benakrupt won't end it.Dec 28 11:13
schestowitzLikewise...Dec 28 11:13
schestowitzThe end of this depression (maybe in 2015, who knows?) won't end the corruptionDec 28 11:13
schestowitzA new cycle will commenceDec 28 11:13
trmancohmm, some company will buy microfootDec 28 11:13
schestowitzBesides, by that time, the Chinese and Arab world will have gained a lot more powerDec 28 11:13
schestowitzHere's the thingDec 28 11:13
schestowitz.Dec 28 11:13
trmancothe arabs have powerDec 28 11:14
trmancoOilDec 28 11:14
schestowitzYou can't end a problem like cockroaches by stepping on one.Dec 28 11:14
schestowitzYou need to find the source and fumigate it.Dec 28 11:14
schestowitzThe educational system is defunctDec 28 11:14
schestowitzThe modus operati (spelling?) is bad in the 'industry' tooDec 28 11:14
schestowitzI posted a video about it in my blog this morning.Dec 28 11:15
trmancowhich educational system?Dec 28 11:17
trmancoworldwide?Dec 28 11:17
trmancoor just one specific country?Dec 28 11:18
schestowitzIt depends.Dec 28 11:19
schestowitzIn the US, for example, they teach bibleDec 28 11:20
schestowitzThat's a genocidal bookDec 28 11:20
schestowitzAlso, people are taught to value just material things.Dec 28 11:20
schestowitzIt's the recipe for self destruction, but curricula are affected by industries that fund the schoolsDec 28 11:20
schestowitzRemember that a corpocracy like that in the US is run by companies. The government is a fascism (in the proper sense of the world) or corporate interests.Dec 28 11:21
schestowitzFor instance.Dec 28 11:21
schestowitzTake the "Obama brand"Dec 28 11:21
schestowitzIts slogan is "Change"Dec 28 11:21
schestowitzThey put Biden in the axisDec 28 11:21
schestowitzHe's pro-war and pro-MAFIAADec 28 11:21
schestowitzThen they surround him with some nice face that represent unityDec 28 11:22
schestowitzIt's good for 'the Brand'Dec 28 11:22
schestowitzBut all else stays the same because the very same companies still call the shitsDec 28 11:22
schestowitz*shotsDec 28 11:22
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 28 11:22
trmancololDec 28 11:22
schestowitzBad typoDec 28 11:22
schestowitzBut the i is adjacent to the oDec 28 11:23
schestowitzBad, bad QWERTYDec 28 11:23
trmancoyes, but it was a funny typo and also fits in the context, sort ofDec 28 11:23
schestowitzI guess my point can be summarised thuslyDec 28 11:26
schestowitzTo promote Freedom (beyond just software), the brainwash must be tackledDec 28 11:27
schestowitzA lot of effort is put into making people passive and naiveDec 28 11:27
schestowitzTo appreciate 'freedom' as something to do with choiceDec 28 11:27
schestowitzLike voting or choosing PC... or a MacDec 28 11:27
schestowitzThat's not freedomDec 28 11:27
schestowitzThat is the illusion of choice, where it's prescribed by 'responsible adults'Dec 28 11:28
trmancobblDec 28 11:40
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schestowitz*sigh* They should really stop saying "open source". If they said "Free software" repeatedly, then people would at least recognise the distinction and realise that Free means freedom, not cheap. Then again, people are raised in a society where cheap or free is bad.Dec 28 12:16
schestowitzI wonder if that's true: 28 12:19
schestowitzMicrosoft a friend of open source? *LOL* 28 12:31
schestowitzWierd way to announce a conference.. some lone blog post: 28 12:34
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mib_38sfnqholaDec 28 12:48
schestowitzHeyDec 28 12:50
mib_38sfnqfull on attack against OO from Meeks today - business as usual for himDec 28 12:50
schestowitzWhat's up?Dec 28 12:50
schestowitzmib_38sfnq: it's an old attackDec 28 12:50
schestowitzSomeone in Digg boosted old newsDec 28 12:50
schestowitzI was going to check how the heck it made front pageDec 28 12:51
schestowitzThe early comments smelled funny.Dec 28 12:51
schestowitzAlmost as though some group of people decided to protest in Digg.Dec 28 12:51
schestowitzAnd then came some more wavesDec 28 12:51
mib_38sfnqah - I knew I had heard him singing that song beforeDec 28 12:51
schestowitzE.g. 28 12:51
schestowitzMeeks response: "I'm Just a Hacker"(R)Dec 28 12:52
schestowitzHe mailed me a few time trying to sort of shut me up a bit (politely)Dec 28 12:52
mib_38sfnqHa. I saw his spreadsheet presentation the other day about OO developmentDec 28 12:52
mib_38sfnqhe had a nice little doublethink in thereDec 28 12:53
mib_38sfnqThis from Meeks in that presentation: "The very idea of an Open project using closed developer tooling & services is rather ridiculous"Dec 28 12:55
mib_38sfnqI thought Moonlight/Mono was using closed MS testing suites to test against? Closed codec services? Not strong into that end of it, have to check it out closerDec 28 12:56
schestowitzHeh.Dec 28 13:00
schestowitzWell, they promote everything Microsoft.Dec 28 13:00
schestowitzIf now at API/format level, then at binary level tooDec 28 13:00
mib_38sfnqOh, I wanted to drop this bit of hypocrisy from Sam Ramji on you:Dec 28 13:00
schestowitzJust watch the shims they build for virtualisation. Only SLES will have them.Dec 28 13:00
schestowitzSam is a tool.Dec 28 13:01
mib_38sfnq"The risk is that the term [Open Source] itself loses meaning over time, which is unfortunate as it’s a powerful idea. "Dec 28 13:01
mib_38sfnqThis coming from a man working for a company doing everything they can to confuse the meaning of Copen SourceDec 28 13:01
mib_38sfnqof Open SourceDec 28 13:01
schestowitzHe's like some clown that says "Mussolini loves democracy" and the world is flatDec 28 13:01
mib_38sfnqwith Shared Source and Academic Source, and 1 dozen other "not-Open Sources"Dec 28 13:02
schestowitzMicrosoft has a bunch of tools that tell liesDec 28 13:02
schestowitzHe's one of themDec 28 13:02
schestowitzEither he doesn't work for them, or he is paid by them to pretend that Microsoft's policies are something they are not.Dec 28 13:02
schestowitz 28 13:02
schestowitzYes, Microsoft just LURVES open source.Dec 28 13:02
mib_38sfnqthey just love talking that TCO messDec 28 13:03
schestowitzI last wrote about the Ramji Problem in 28 13:04
mib_38sfnqAnd check it out from that link; "With open source, it was lots of little niggly things that individually may not seem like a big deal, but quickly added up to major inconveniences – like the lack of automatic updates and security patches that forced us to rely on pricey third parties to perform upgrades,"Dec 28 13:04
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schestowitz11 references on his name there. Dec 28 13:04
mib_38sfnqwhat damn distro does NOT have auto updates and security patches?Dec 28 13:04
mib_38sfnqwere they running LFS or something?Dec 28 13:05
mib_38sfnq:)Dec 28 13:05
schestowitzmib_38sfnq: it's package levelDec 28 13:05
schestowitzRamji is either misinformed or is lyingDec 28 13:05
schestowitzTo update Apache, you update ApacheDec 28 13:05
schestowitzYou don't have "Apache for DSL" and "Apache for Mint"Dec 28 13:05
mib_38sfnqRamji is not misinformed - he's not an idiot. Just dishonest.Dec 28 13:06
schestowitzHere's the thingDec 28 13:06
schestowitzMicrosoft's Susa Huaser used the same FUDDec 28 13:06
schestowitzThey make it seem like if you're a small distributor you need to manually change code for security purposes.Dec 28 13:07
schestowitzThat's utter BS, as I wrote at the timeDec 28 13:07
schestowitzMandriva puts it in the cooker, Fedora makes RPMs, and so on.Dec 28 13:07
mib_38sfnqThey have to do that to prop up the TCO facadeDec 28 13:07
schestowitzRHEL is more stable and LTSedDec 28 13:07
schestowitzMarketing people: 28 13:08
schestowitzSusan Hauser, MS: “There is a growing recognition among customers – in many countries including China - that there are significant costs to the business by running an operating system that is not supported by a commercial vendor. These costs include the staff time to do manual patches and bug fixes versus leveraging the seamless updates that are provided by Novell for SUSE Linux Enterprise as part of a support contract.”Dec 28 13:08
schestowitzMe: "Translation: China respects intellectual monopolies and ownership of mathematics. Additionally, no GNU/Linux distribution other than Novell ever receives patches. Users have to write their own. They have to keep track of Bugzilla and watchever and figure out how to fix every individual flaw. It’s really, really hard."Dec 28 13:09
mib_38sfnqAgain with the "manual patches"! What the hell company runs that flavor of Linux?Dec 28 13:10
mib_38sfnqSome company out there on Slackware or something? Come on.Dec 28 13:10
schestowitzSome are, but they don't have to be.Dec 28 13:12
schestowitzShe's FUDing some established Chinese vendorsDec 28 13:12
schestowitzSo that they pay Microsoft that "Linux tax" via NovellDec 28 13:12
mib_38sfnqRamji has another sneaky little attack too - he likes to draw an equivalence between Open Source and things like "Extreme Programming" and other development processesDec 28 13:13
mib_38sfnqthis lets him focus on the development side of Open Source and ignore the e idea s of sharring and freedomDec 28 13:13
mib_38sfnqYou can point out how absurd that analogy is by comparing, say, the idea ofDec 28 13:14
mib_38sfnq"Free Software" with "How you should indent C code"Dec 28 13:14
*schestowitz was help back by MS boostersDec 28 13:18
schestowitz*heldDec 28 13:18
schestowitzRamji is a straw manDec 28 13:18
schestowitzI wrote about it beforeDec 28 13:18
schestowitzMicrosoft just need some skinny and innocent-looking man to stand there as a proxyDec 28 13:18
schestowitzYou can't attack Microsoft's attitude towards Linux because you first have to go through this straw man.Dec 28 13:19
mib_38sfnqYeah, but he has some sneaky arguments. That's how MS does - they don't change the message, they just make it a bit more subtleDec 28 13:19
schestowitzIOW, it's like those woman reps that companies send out to the mobDec 28 13:19
schestowitzThe mob can't attack womenDec 28 13:19
schestowitzSo in this case, they use him as a fenceDec 28 13:19
schestowitzThe white-collar criminals like Bach, Allchin, Ballmer and soon  use him as a shield, as PR.Dec 28 13:20
mib_38sfnqYeah, that's closer to it - he's a "TE" like that other dude we were talking aboutDec 28 13:20
schestowitzMy last remark was a refrence to some develop who's boosting Microsoft stuff by pushing it onto Debian and Ubuntu.Dec 28 13:20
schestowitzYesDec 28 13:21
schestowitzI wonder who else is an undercover TEDec 28 13:21
schestowitzThey sometimes get exposedDec 28 13:21
schestowitzSomeone mailed me yesterday to say that his girlfriend tracked down and busted two Microsoft TEs in a certain European nationDec 28 13:21
schestowitzThey pollute technology sitesDec 28 13:21
schestowitzAnother former editor of a very large tech sites said that TEs were gaming his siteDec 28 13:22
mib_38sfnqYes, but again - MS is good at getting subtle. They come on strong, get called out and laughed at for the blanatant lies, and then get more sneakyDec 28 13:22
schestowitzSo I can't help thinking of some other sites rthat suffer from this tooDec 28 13:22
schestowitzIn facr, Groklaw used to get them tooDec 28 13:22
schestowitzAll kinds of COmpTIA (Microsoft pressure group) shills pretending to be FOSS people.Dec 28 13:22
schestowitzBut...Dec 28 13:22
schestowitzbe carefulDec 28 13:22
schestowitzExpose them...Dec 28 13:22
schestowitzAnd be called all sorts of nameDec 28 13:23
schestowitz*namesDec 28 13:23
mib_38sfnqyup no doubt there. always falling back to the personal attacks.Dec 28 13:23
schestowitzThe TEs use the same tactics of mistrust to attack those who expose themDec 28 13:23
schestowitzPJ for example: 28 13:24
schestowitzGroklaw advised me when BN was young to block comments, but I never did this and don't intend toDec 28 13:24
schestowitzFor a person who is involved in a FOSS project... I don't know... Microsoft has some of its own people enter these projects to promote Microsoft agenda.Dec 28 13:25
schestowitzCompanies too, not just projectsDec 28 13:25
schestowitzGood projects like Xen were ruined after a Microsoft proxy (Ignition) funded them and seemingly injected a Microsoft General Manager into the  board.Dec 28 13:25
schestowitz 28 13:26
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mib_38sfnqI might work up a post about Ramji - he's really bugging me on that post and the spreadsheet Mary Jo had upDec 28 13:32
mib_38sfnqer, not spreadsheet ... slideDec 28 13:33
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schestowitzSlide?Dec 28 13:35
schestowitzWhich one?Dec 28 13:35
schestowitzThe ISV thing?Dec 28 13:35
schestowitz(from 2007)Dec 28 13:35
mib_38sfnq 28 13:35
mib_38sfnqSame one?Dec 28 13:36
schestowitz"Bill Hilf has already run away from this position and so did Martin Taylor. You can’t buy forgiveness and remorse by just swapping heads forever. They all inherit the same burden and guilt." 28 13:37
schestowitzI'm trying to find something about Microsoft pretending that Martin  taylor never existedDec 28 13:37
schestowitzYes, *that* one.Dec 28 13:37
mib_38sfnqI love how he's got *vim* up there in the corner.Dec 28 13:38
schestowitzWhat's his bg anywayDec 28 13:40
mib_38sfnqRamji?Dec 28 13:40
schestowitz"Before joining Microsoft in November 2004, I worked at BEA Systems in the WebLogic Integration product unit as Director of Market Development, focused on technical market strategy under Chet Kapoor and Dave Hinman."Dec 28 13:41
schestowitzYuck. BEADec 28 13:41
schestowitzProprietaryDec 28 13:41
schestowitzSo he had NO BACKGROUND IN FOSS as far as I can tell.Dec 28 13:42
mib_38sfnqno no he has a bit ... his old blog is still on lineDec 28 13:43
mib_38sfnqhttp://samus.typepad.comDec 28 13:43
mib_38sfnqnever a Free Software guyDec 28 13:43
mib_38sfnqas far as I can tellDec 28 13:43
schestowitzWhat bit has he?Dec 28 13:43
schestowitzDid he contribute code?Dec 28 13:43
schestowitzOr is he "I'm using Firefox"-type 'FOSS' person?Dec 28 13:44
mib_38sfnqyeah more of the latter as far as I can tell ... he came from a software-service backgroundDec 28 13:44
schestowitzThat's not FOSSDec 28 13:45
schestowitz 28 13:45
schestowitzSaaS, SaaS........Dec 28 13:45
mib_38sfnqright, never Free and more about OSS as a development model, with no thought to the philosophy that actually makes it workDec 28 13:45
schestowitzOf coruse notDec 28 13:45
schestowitzPhilosophy scares MicrosoftDec 28 13:45
schestowitzIt's all for money, ethics don't matterDec 28 13:46
schestowitzSometimes the law does not matter, eitherDec 28 13:46
schestowitzBillG has friends in high places, so he pays or bribes or buys his way out (there are actual examples of this)Dec 28 13:46
mib_38sfnqexactly so ... you can see it big time if you ever look at Port 25... cold and clinicalDec 28 13:47
mib_38sfnqno discussion of ethics, morality or real communityDec 28 13:47
schestowitzOn another note, this is new < > and it's pretty massive: Microsoft's massive AstroTurfing is exposed by a former chief.  I wonder how many Ramjis work 'undercover' among us.Dec 28 13:54
schestowitzIt's not just Port25 BTWDec 28 13:55
schestowitzThey also spread messages through former employeesDec 28 13:55
schestowitzAbout profit-making, other licences, etcDec 28 13:55
schestowitzWe caught incidentsDec 28 13:55
schestowitzThe idea is to change open sourceDec 28 13:55
schestowitzRamji is fine with it, Microsoft is bullish on itDec 28 13:55
schestowitzEEEDec 28 13:55
schestowitzThe issue is that if you return to Free software, then they'll pollute it with the 'price' misconceptionDec 28 13:56
schestowitzDidiot was doing this last year in a publicationDec 28 13:56
schestowitzOpen source = visible source/development method in Microsoft's booksDec 28 13:56
schestowitzFree software = cheap, no money, communism, radicalismDec 28 13:56
mib_38sfnqyeah, but make sure *your* Open Source code relies heavily on Microsoft's Closed Source libraries and infrastructureDec 28 13:57
schestowitzHeh.Dec 28 14:01
schestowitzWell, this way Microsoft gets its shareDec 28 14:01
schestowitz[of your income]Dec 28 14:01
mib_38sfnqMicrosoft ISVs are basically sharecroppers and don't even realize itDec 28 14:02
schestowitzYes.Dec 28 14:05
schestowitzBut they get short-term kicksDec 28 14:05
schestowitzMicrosoft: "he's some money. Ensure we do some revenue-sharing in the future"Dec 28 14:05
schestowitzIt's a sensitive subject. It's tiring to say that project /X/ sold out. it's not fruitful, eitherDec 28 14:06
schestowitzMicrosoft is used to crushing ot buying stuffDec 28 14:07
schestowitzWhat if it bought Google in 1999?Dec 28 14:07
schestowitzWhat if it paid GNU to disappear?Dec 28 14:07
schestowitzIt's a hack whose ammunition is only goodwill and ethicsDec 28 14:07
mib_38sfnqIf MS bought Google, then Google would never have been the main search serveviceDec 28 14:07
schestowitzIf ethics can be broken ("Hey! Why don't you support SQL Server? Come on, we'll pay you for it"), then it's badDec 28 14:08
mib_38sfnqWe'd be "Yahooing" or "(Alta)Vista-ing" instead of "googling"Dec 28 14:08
schestowitzit's possible that search would not be as mainstream, as wellDec 28 14:08
schestowitzPortals were more popular when search was ru\bbishDec 28 14:09
mib_38sfnqMaybe the "directory" approach would be more popular?Dec 28 14:09
schestowitzI used A9 until 2003, IIRCDec 28 14:09
mib_38sfnqA9 was not too badDec 28 14:09
schestowitzThis Apebox box is wasting my time today: 28 14:11
schestowitzA friend of mine reckons he's a turncoat ShafterDec 28 14:11
schestowitzAll he ever does is heckle, heckle, heckleDec 28 14:12
schestowitzBeen reading and posting in BN all afetrnoonDec 28 14:12
schestowitzYou'd think he'd just blog his own perspective, but no.. he must go to another site and put his confrontations over there.Dec 28 14:12
mib_38sfnqi've been to his site ... he comes on BN to argue because no one reads his siteDec 28 14:14
mib_38sfnqhe's really disingenuous in those comments, calling out OO as Sun's cathedral projectDec 28 14:17
mib_38sfnqthat's just a straight lieDec 28 14:17
schestowitzThey attack Sun these daysDec 28 14:19
schestowitzIt was noted by readers.Dec 28 14:19
schestowitzThe "equally evil' (without substantial evidence) defense.Dec 28 14:19
schestowitzWatch them keeping quiet when Microsoft crimes are discussed.Dec 28 14:20
mib_38sfnqyup Ad Hominem Tu Quoque is a favorite of Novell defenders on BN i have noticedDec 28 14:20
schestowitzBTW, are you anonymous by choice?Dec 28 14:23
mib_38sfnqhalf wayDec 28 14:24
mib_38sfnqjust tired of personal attacks everytime I post about Novell and stuffDec 28 14:24
mib_38sfnqso keeping it here for nowDec 28 14:25
mib_38sfnqthat's allDec 28 14:25
schestowitzI see..Dec 28 14:26
schestowitzThat's why the hecklers do a lot of har,Dec 28 14:26
schestowitz*harmDec 28 14:26
schestowitzMany readers never comment in BNDec 28 14:26
schestowitzSome who do are being attackedDec 28 14:26
schestowitzIt's a bit like COLA in USENET, as trmanco surely knowsDec 28 14:27
schestowitzThey make it an unpleasant forum to deter potential participants.Dec 28 14:27
schestowitzGroklaw protests them better by driving away the bad crowd, but I suppose it's prepared to be characterised as censoring, which it is, assuming that annulling shills is acceptable.Dec 28 14:28
mib_38sfnqIt's hard to balance open discussion because trolls and shills sure do take advantage of itDec 28 14:28
mib_38sfnqblog comments are an especially difficult format to balance on top of that as wellDec 28 14:29
schestowitzThat's why I don't interveneDec 28 14:31
schestowitzSometimes it gets really bad so people complain.Dec 28 14:31
mib_38sfnqi think you are doing about the best possible - imagine the cries if you deleted commentsDec 28 14:32
mib_38sfnqpeople would be screaming "censorship" big timeDec 28 14:32
mib_38sfnqbetter just to let it out there for all to seeDec 28 14:32
mib_38sfnqthat's what i thinkDec 28 14:32
schestowitzAnd not to aggravateDec 28 14:32
schestowitzOr let there be typos and mistakesDec 28 14:32
schestowitzGroklaw's the same, but it slowed down because of itDec 28 14:33
schestowitzRisk of lawsuit for incorrect assertions and all.Dec 28 14:33
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*trmanco is catching upDec 28 15:03
schestowitz14:27: <schestowitz> It's a bit like COLA in USENET, as trmanco surely knowsDec 28 15:04
*trmanco has caught upDec 28 15:11
schestowitzJo told me "fuck you" after I asked him to be polite and not in sult me: 28 15:12
trmancooh yeah, like identity theft and so on like todayDec 28 15:12
schestowitzIt's not the first time that he curses by the way.Dec 28 15:12
schestowitzSome much for Oxford University scientists. They left the manners in the dorm.Dec 28 15:13
trmanco"fuck you" translated in English >> "Hey I don't have anymore valid arguments on this so leave me alone"Dec 28 15:13
trmanco"I lost, you win"Dec 28 15:13
schestowitz 28 15:19
trmancoLOLDec 28 15:21
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Dec 28 15:23
trmanco << LOL, m0n0 is not really well positionedDec 28 15:24
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 15:25
schestowitztrmanco: oops :-)Dec 28 15:25
trmanco;-)Dec 28 15:26
schestowitzGNOME is close, but I like GNOMEDec 28 15:26
schestowitzAnd you know what they say...Dec 28 15:26
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to take on the GNU from behindDec 28 15:27
*macabe_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Dec 28 15:29
trmancololDec 28 15:30
trmancooh yeahDec 28 15:31
mib_38sfnqmono should be dropping out the back endDec 28 15:31
mib_38sfnqand a little pile of moonlight on the groundDec 28 15:31
schestowitzWhen it's fed more market share -- yesDec 28 15:31
trmancoog greatDec 28 16:09
trmanco 28 16:09
trmancolink is broken, got it from here >> 28 16:09
schestowitzWindows serverDec 28 16:16
schestowitzMaybe they abandoned it :-)Dec 28 16:16
trmancono, they moved from asp to aspxDec 28 16:17
trmanco 28 16:17
trmanco 28 16:18
trmancothis is old...Dec 28 16:18
*mib_38sfnq has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Dec 28 16:53
trmancoyet another buffy overflow -> 28 16:57
*kapipi has quit ("Ah Nah!")Dec 28 17:00
*kapipi (n=tor@ has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 17:02
schestowitzBuffy.Dec 28 17:05
schestowitz 28 17:05
trmancono not that Buffy :-PDec 28 17:08
schestowitzSlay Windows. :-)Dec 28 17:14
trmancoand yet another one -> 28 17:15
trmancothis time with WMPDec 28 17:15
trmanco*Exploit included* :-PDec 28 17:15
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*neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 17:36
neighborleeschestowitz, ok thats weird...did  you and shane have some fallling out or something o_0...his comments are really bizarre considering he was a editor ?...anyway, Jo wasn't doing anyone anygood really...facts are fine, but when debate is not only one side but also vile, its time to call them on it which we all did basicaly in unison, and he just couldn't take it apparantly anymore ;)< and he went out in the same style, as he mostlyDec 28 17:45
neighborlee had been known for while his brief stay>Dec 28 17:45
*macabe ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 17:58
neighborleeoh and btw..very OT, but very kewl and worth seeing if you haven't already: 28 18:00
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trmanconice vidDec 28 18:04
neighborlee:)Dec 28 18:08
neighborleenature is just amazing ;)Dec 28 18:08
trmancoit sure isDec 28 18:11 3.0 Passes 25 Million Downloads: 28 19:23
*schestowitz just got backDec 28 20:10
schestowitz (BBC Proposes Higher ISP Pricing for use of its iPlayer Service)Dec 28 20:10
schestowitzGoodbye, net neutralityDec 28 20:10
schestowitzThanks, MS-BBCDec 28 20:10
schestowitzPatent Troll Sues Google, Apple & Microsoft < >Dec 28 20:10
schestowitzneighborlee: Shane's comment is not a surprise. No worries, though.Dec 28 20:11
trmancowhy the trolls have gone mad -> 28 20:12
trmancooops, that doesn't sound very goodDec 28 20:12
trmancoNovell Calls Off BrainShare 2009: 28 20:13
schestowitzECT is dying too, I thinkiDec 28 20:14
schestowitzYes...Dec 28 20:14
schestowitzNow I see... they still just buy articles.Dec 28 20:14
schestowitzThey don't produce much.Dec 28 20:14
schestowitzThey have that silly Blog Safari thing.Dec 28 20:14
schestowitzThis article from Tom Harvey is oldDec 28 20:15
schestowitzAbout a week old.Dec 28 20:15
trmancoa week?Dec 28 20:15
schestowitzI thinkDec 28 20:17
schestowitzI was drunk that nightDec 28 20:17
schestowitzAnyway, I've just posted to COLA.Dec 28 20:17
schestowitzI didn't change the headlineDec 28 20:18
*trmanco checks cOLADec 28 20:18
schestowitzLet's see how the Munchins respond.Dec 28 20:18
schestowitzIt might not appear immediately.Dec 28 20:18
schestowitzbrb, shower (just been back from the gym)Dec 28 20:18
trmancookDec 28 20:18
trmancobtw, doesn't appear yetDec 28 20:19
schestowitzThis is quite acpocalyptic... just to think they wanted to buy Yahoo for 50 bil some months agoDec 28 20:31
trmancoLOLDec 28 20:31
schestowitzDebt nation is what it is and MS was prepared to go into big debt at dangerous timesDec 28 20:32
trmancojust found a msn bot on my site with a search query from using FirefoxDec 28 20:32
schestowitzThat would have wiped them, sortaDec 28 20:32
schestowitztrmanco: you can find MS employees seraching for FOSS stuffDec 28 20:32
schestowitzI once did that... they also use Google... that was in 2005 when I checked it though, for fun in some Web newsgroupDec 28 20:33
trmancousing this ip? -> 28 20:33
trmancoand they are coming from live, but when I click the referral link I don't appear on that pageDec 28 20:34
schestowitzHappy new year! (Microsoft's won't be happy... watch my next post)Dec 28 21:06
trmancoLOLDec 28 21:09
schestowitzSome reader wrote to me with greetings.Dec 28 21:09
schestowitzWe have our tough crowd, but quiet behind the scenes we have some big supporters, including some CEOs and journalists I won't name. :-)Dec 28 21:09
schestowitzSome people are shy to say they read it.Dec 28 21:12
schestowitz 28 21:16
trmancogreatDec 28 21:17
trmancoI think I have just convinced a friend of mine to ditch Windows in favor of UbuntuDec 28 21:18
schestowitzHow?Dec 28 21:18
schestowitz<recommend dualityDec 28 21:18
schestowitzWindows will drop in due timeDec 28 21:19
trmancojust told him that you have less problems in LinuxDec 28 21:19
schestowitzBuild a partition for himDec 28 21:19
schestowitzGRUBDec 28 21:19
trmancohe has already installed itDec 28 21:19
schestowitzGoodDec 28 21:19
trmancoand wiped out windows from his hard driveDec 28 21:19
schestowitzSome UK universities dual boot as standard now.Dec 28 21:19
schestowitzMS counts it as Win boxesDec 28 21:20
trmancowell that is betetr thans just having Windows on itDec 28 21:20
trmancostupid counting schemesDec 28 21:20
schestowitzWhich distro?Dec 28 21:20
trmanco?Dec 28 21:21
trmancoUbuntuDec 28 21:21
trmancofor nowDec 28 21:21
schestowitzWOT??? No Arch?Dec 28 21:21
trmancoArch ooooweDec 28 21:21
trmancofor a newbie, its a little hard coreDec 28 21:21
schestowitzMake his sweat for freedom. :-pDec 28 21:21
trmancoI've instlled it a couple of times on a VMDec 28 21:21
schestowitz*himDec 28 21:22
trmanco:-PDec 28 21:22
trmancohe is still using OSS driveresDec 28 21:22
trmancodrivers*Dec 28 21:22
trmancoteaching him the basicsDec 28 21:24
schestowitzMonopoly meetups: 28 21:26
schestowitz=people in suits and various lawyers discussing how to make money out of engineers who actually create something.Dec 28 21:27
schestowitztrmanco: when you teach him, you teach othersDec 28 21:27
trmancoyesDec 28 21:27
trmancoI have also found out a way for my cousin to ditch windows tooDec 28 21:28
schestowitzIf he gets immersed in it, he'll want to pass it on. It's the network effect. For 4 people you turn to Linux you can impact 16Dec 28 21:28
trmancobut this one was more "painful"Dec 28 21:28
schestowitzThey need to /want/ to changeDec 28 21:28
schestowitzEither a major crash/virus or a good demo of Compiz/Fusion on multi-heaDec 28 21:29
trmancoyes, thanks to microfoot (R)Dec 28 21:29
trmancoslownessDec 28 21:29
schestowitz 28 21:29
trmancoand bloat made my cousin changeDec 28 21:29
schestowitzI'm pretty sure that Ars Technica is gaming DiggDec 28 21:29
schestowitzFor a long time it has seemed like itDec 28 21:29
schestowitzDigg sometimes sorta 'punishes' them, which indicates group (gang) votingDec 28 21:30
trmancooh yeahDec 28 21:30
trmancoFUDmeistersDec 28 21:30
schestowitzNot quite. Just people who game Digg. I hate that.Dec 28 21:34
schestowitzThey ruined Digg in my opinionDec 28 21:34
PetoKrausi'm just reading the article on /. about OOoDec 28 21:43
PetoKrauswell...Dec 28 21:43
schestowitzIt's oldDec 28 21:43
schestowitzDigg bumped it somehowDec 28 21:43
PetoKrausit's true that they are one of the slowest FLOSS projects to respond to bugs i've tried toDec 28 21:43
schestowitzTrolls everywhere reuse it.Dec 28 21:44
schestowitzLet me copy some remarks on itDec 28 21:44
PetoKrauswell but the bottom line is trueDec 28 21:44
schestowitzI had some E-mails with friends about it (there are not from OOo or anything.Dec 28 21:44
PetoKrausthat Sun is trying to control the codeDec 28 21:44
schestowitzA friend of mine said:Dec 28 21:44
schestowitzI have not been following the OOo situation all that closely, so the following questions come from a position of ignorance:Dec 28 21:45
schestowitz1. Isn't Meeks really just saying that more diversity is needed in controlling contributions to the OOo code base?Dec 28 21:45
schestowitz2.  If so, isn't he correct in that position?  Even Luis Suarez Potts has said to me that he would like to see more diversity to the contributors to the OOo code base.Dec 28 21:45
schestowitz3.  Sun has indeed made mistakes with regard to FOSS, criticizing Linux, for example.  Overall, I support Sun because their contributions to FOSS outweigh their mistakes, but I think that they are more controlling than they should be.  It seems to me that is what Mike Meeks is saying.Dec 28 21:45
schestowitzHere is my response (with ">") and his:Dec 28 21:45
schestowitzOn Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Roy Schestowitz <> wrote:Dec 28 21:46
schestowitz    >A better name for Go-OO would be MS-Go-OO-XML. Novell was a promoter ofDec 28 21:46
schestowitz    >OOXML and Microsoft used this to ram it down ISO's throat.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzI agree that Novell and Miguel made a mistake in saying good things about OOXML.  The bane of our (the FOSS community) existence is our need for money to run servers and pay developers to write unglorious stuff like drivers, because it allows Microsoft to find a base to form partnerships like the Novell-Microsoft partnership, which I wish had never happened.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzOn the other hand, my conservative Republican father thinks that the Novell deal is proof of Microsoft's weakness and Linux's strength.  He says that Linux must be making progress if Microsoft is forced to make deals like that.  And my father voted for McCain.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzI think that Roy's service to the community is like that of Pamela Jones and Richard Stallman.  Roy continues to light a fire under Novell's feet to keep its mistakes before the public, so that Novell managers continue to question whether or not their efforts are really the best thing for Novell's public image and for the FOSS community.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzBut it is also true that the FOSS community needs money, or we will just dry up and blow away.  Many of us in the FOSS community are struggling every day to pay the rent, and we need to do two things at the same time: 1) continue to push truly Free Software; and 2) make money doing it, at least so long as capitalism exists.  Our problem of poverty reflects a much broader problem -- rapacious capitalism.  Free Software is motivated Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzby values that exist beyond the capitalist model of controlling markets.  So in a sense, we in the FOSS world are time travelers from the future trying to exist in a world where rapacious capitalism is still prevalent, but FOSS is from a world where quality is pre-eminent, not rapacious capitalist desires to control commerce.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitz Dec 28 21:46
schestowitz    >I suppose you don't think about the patents associated with it and theDec 28 21:46
schestowitz    >Mono (.NET). ItDec 28 21:46
schestowitzIn re Bilski I think will weaken software patents.  Mono is clearly a mistake, although it has the beneficial effect of commoditizing .Net.  Good wine comes from poor-tasting grapes.  For example, you could also say that OOo and Audacity and all of those cross-platform FOSS apps are selling out Linux by allowing people to use those apps on Microsoft Windows. Dec 28 21:46
schestowitzI see .Net as a way of distracting Microsoft.  I see software patents as a freak of the law that has been weakened by Bilski, and I think that is a trend that will continue.  I believe that much of Microsoft's patent hoard will come to be seen as having zero value.  Patents are a huge problem for the short term, but in the long term I think we will beat them, because software patents are in disfavor, thanks to efforts of people likDec 28 21:46
schestowitze Roy and governments like Brazil which do not recognize software patents.Dec 28 21:46
schestowitz   >There is also a good chance that Microsoft will buy Novell some time inDec 28 21:47
schestowitz    >the future, along with its copyrighted assets that include manyDec 28 21:47
schestowitz    >GNU/Linux programs. They would also buy out the WordPerfect lawsuit thatDec 28 21:47
schestowitz    >way (about a third of Novell's market cap).Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzI could see Microsoft buying Novell in an act of desparation, and I think that the stock market would react to such a purchase as a sign of desparation.  I think that the day that Microsoft buys Novell, it will also have to spend a huge chunk of change to buy more shares to prevent Microsoft's stock from dropping more than 5%.  Novell has a hugely different business model than Microsoft. Dec 28 21:47
schestowitz Novell makes money from supporting its software.  The margins in that business are tiny compared with the Microsoft licensing model, which in the past ranged greater than 80%!  Microsoft as we know it today is founded on those kinds of margins, and if you take away those margins, you dramatically change the nature of Microsoft. Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzBTW, have you been following the Google market cap chase of Microsoft?  With the declining global market, both Google and Microsoft have dropped in value, but Microsoft has dropped proportionately much greater.  I remember the day that Google crossed the threshold of $100 billion market cap difference from Microsoft. Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzAnd since that time, Google has mostly narrowed that gap even further.  The greatest objective measure of the real world digital tipping point is this gap between Microsoft and Google, because that gap signals the decline of the Microsoft Windows hegemony on the desktop. Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzToday, the market cap spread between Google and Microsoft is only about $56 billion!Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzWhen Microsoft loses its status as a bank, it will lose its ability to dictate the terms of the desktop market.  At that point, Microsoft will have to actually compete, and we all know that when Microsoft must compete, it loses, as in the case of the X-box and the Zune and so many other instances of Microsoft failure where it must compete.Dec 28 21:47
schestowitz Dec 28 21:47
schestowitz    >Based on Sun's word, Go-OO is a fork. Novell's friends would try to denyDec 28 21:47
schestowitz    >this.Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzNeo-Office is also a fork, but it is a friendly fork.  And maybe it is a good thing for Sun to be forced to allow more outside control of OOo?  I don't know.  But it really has stuck with me that even Luis Suarez Potts has said that there should be greater diversity in controlling the OOo code base. Dec 28 21:47
schestowitzThe downside of greater diversity in the code base means that governing OOo becomes more cumbersome.  But the advantage of greater diversity is that Sun would need to become more responsive to the user community and the developer community, which IMHO is a good thing.Dec 28 21:48
schestowitzIt is a shame that corporate capitalism pits Sun and Novell and IBM against each other, with each corporation trying to grab all the marbles and not share, as is expected of FOSS projects.  But there is a certain material force to FOSS that forces the corporate hand.Dec 28 21:48
schestowitzAs long as we continue to enhance the GNU-Linux market share, we will be able to weaken the corporate influence on Free Standards and Free Software.Dec 28 21:48
schestowitz...Dec 28 21:48
schestowitzBut he's very wrong.Dec 28 21:48
schestowitzLinux and FOSS are less than 20% of Novell's business.Dec 28 21:48
schestowitzAbout MS'margins: That's no longer true. The margins fell super sharply.Dec 28 21:49
schestowitzMicrosoft suffers a lot because of the Web, not Free software.Dec 28 21:49
schestowitzOr at least that's why Windows doesn't matter much anymoreDec 28 21:49
schestowitzAbout wealth in h/w: They lose billions and will soon be in debt, after the layoffs.Dec 28 21:50
schestowitzThe whole thing is old news. More conversation on this: 28 21:50
schestowitzAnd another friend contradicts this also:Dec 28 21:50
PetoKrauswell anywayDec 28 21:50
PetoKrausi don't really see why are you slamming go-ooDec 28 21:50
PetoKrausjust because it's novell?Dec 28 21:50
schestowitz"i usually agree with you, mostly -:) In this case, im totally opposite. Meeks with his follies at Novell are implementing a MS divide and conquer tactic here. Its not like Meeks is saying, the community needs to help OOo but instead pushes folks to help with the go-oo version, the Novel version. There is a lot more to OOo than developers, the Doc Project is big, Art project, launguge project is huge..."Dec 28 21:51
schestowitz"So the Meeks gang takes advantage of all the work others contribute to OOO  and use it to promote the MS/Novell agenda...."Dec 28 21:51
schestowitz Dec 28 21:51
schestowitz"I also dont beleive Louis is happy about any of this "Forking" or for that matter anyone directly involved in the OOo community.  There is no diversity with what Meeks has done, they have essentially created their own product, dont contribute to OOo and go out and complete by saying negative things about the OOo version."Dec 28 21:51
schestowitzPetoKraus: yes, it's Novell's and it could continue to serve Microsoft via NovellDec 28 21:51
schestowitzI got this mail 10 minutes ago:Dec 28 21:52
schestowitz"Meeks isn't even an OOo developer.  He's be working on a hostile fork. The fork has been used to inject MS technology and to attack Sun."Dec 28 21:52
schestowitz"It's time to point out publicly again that Meeks is not an OOo developer."Dec 28 21:52
schestowitz5 minutes ago: "There's no date on Meek's blog, but this looks like the same one from earlier this year. In other words it looks like an old attack dragged out and used again.  I'd look around and try to see what MS/Novell are using this as a smoke screen to cover."Dec 28 21:53
schestowitzHm... this might make front page: 28 21:54
PetoKrausI've actually got nothing against either OOo or Go-ooDec 28 21:55
schestowitzI thought something with more beef would be appreciated: 28 21:55
schestowitzDigg is weirdDec 28 21:55
PetoKraussince the bug I experience is in bothDec 28 21:55
schestowitzFanboy stuff is Dugg, important news is not.Dec 28 21:55
schestowitzThe Novellers seem to be pushing it into Slashdot again (dupe): 28 22:03
PetoKrausthat's the one i'm talking aboutDec 28 22:04
PetoKrausi emailed FSF about the personal USB gnewsense bootcardsDec 28 22:06
PetoKrausit seems that i've missed the first wave... :/Dec 28 22:06
schestowitzWe need to respons to this old newsDec 28 22:06
schestowitzOh, not the USB.. the OOo thingDec 28 22:06
schestowitzWhich number will you be?Dec 28 22:07
schestowitzRMS is 0Dec 28 22:07
PetoKrausi'm 6128Dec 28 22:07
schestowitz6127? :-)Dec 28 22:07
trmancoI'm N/A stillDec 28 22:07
trmanco:|Dec 28 22:07
schestowitzMember 0x00001FF3Dec 28 22:07
trmancoI don't know HEXDec 28 22:08
trmanco 28 22:18
*GoblinRFD ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 22:25
GoblinRFDhello all.  Merry xmasDec 28 22:26
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Dec 28 22:27
schestowitzHey, GoblinRFD Dec 28 22:28
GoblinRFD:)Dec 28 22:28
GoblinRFDgreat post on MS shillers!Dec 28 22:29
GoblinRFDinfact this holiday period, great posts all round!Dec 28 22:29
GoblinRFDRoy, what was that comment from Jo Shields all about?Dec 28 22:30
trmancoschestowitz, they are faking you againDec 28 22:31
trmancoand it smells like fishDec 28 22:31
schestowitzGoblinRFD: which posts?Dec 28 22:33
schestowitztrmanco: it's probably Gary Steward with multiple accounts. let's check..Dec 28 22:33
GoblinRFDthe comment that said "F*ck you"Dec 28 22:34
trmancoit look like him, he used on of his nyms in his sigDec 28 22:34
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 22:34
trmancoand it is crosspostedDec 28 22:35
trmancoX-Complaints-To: abuse@tornevall.netDec 28 22:35
trmancoX-Complaints-Language: Spoken language is english or swedish - NOT ITALIAN, FRENCH, GERMAN OR ANY OTHER LANGUAGE!Dec 28 22:35
trmancoX-Validate-Post: 28 22:35
trmancoX-SpeedUI: 1456Dec 28 22:35
trmancoX-Complaints-Italiano: Parlo la lingua non è italianoDec 28 22:35
schestowitzI don't want to spend time on Gary and the other Microsoft fraudsters.Dec 28 22:36
schestowitzHe's like a TE (shill) and he'll get sued one dayDec 28 22:36
schestowitzHe harmed many people... targeted attacksDec 28 22:36
GoblinRFDDo you mean Gary Hobbs?Dec 28 22:37
schestowitzRebuttal: 28 22:41
schestowitzHobbs??Dec 28 22:41
schestowitzNo, Gary M Stewart, Microsoft shill.Dec 28 22:41
GoblinRFDahDec 28 22:41
schestowitzNasty criminal. Some people want him in prison.Dec 28 22:41
GoblinRFDI was targetted by a guy called Gary Hobbs on MSwatch today.Dec 28 22:41
GoblinRFDstooped to some very low levels.Dec 28 22:41
GoblinRFDincluding pretending to be a regular Linux user called "The Hand"Dec 28 22:42
MinceRhm, who's going to do a fork of ooo that isn't built on any vm-based language? :>Dec 28 22:42
MinceRwe have java ooo, .net ooo, time to have a native ooo :>Dec 28 22:43
GoblinRFDI am still screwing over Python 3.0.....and I cant even say its MS's fault its gone to pot.Dec 28 22:43
tessierWhat's wrong with Python 3.0?Dec 28 22:43
GoblinRFDchanges in syntax mainlyDec 28 22:44
tessierAmateurs worry about syntax. Professionals worry about semantics.Dec 28 22:44
GoblinRFDlolDec 28 22:44
GoblinRFDwe have mostly amateurs working for us thenDec 28 22:44
tessierSeriously. Syntax only affects what keys you press on the keyboard.Dec 28 22:44
MinceRwhat's wrong with those changes?Dec 28 22:45
MinceRtessier: no, it also affects what you read back laterDec 28 22:45
GoblinRFDnothing per say.  I can see the direction in which they are taking Python........Dec 28 22:45
MinceRand it also affects what you're allowed to use in your program at allDec 28 22:45
tessierMinceR: The former only to a certain degree, the latter not at all.Dec 28 22:45
GoblinRFDits simply for me, it appears to be change for change sake.  That and the performance of the interpretter.Dec 28 22:45
MinceRit would have been preferable to put some sort of version indicator in .py filesDec 28 22:45
tessierLisp has very little in the way of syntax. And it can do more than most languages. It could do imperative, OO, functional, etc. before anyone else.Dec 28 22:46
GoblinRFDbut why the change?Dec 28 22:46
MinceRand a series of incompatible changes could be a good place to do thatDec 28 22:46
schestowitzGoblinRFD: Google has control over Python, I senseDec 28 22:46
schestowitzThey use lots of it in-house and has the founderDec 28 22:46
MinceRtessier: too bad it can't do so in a readable way.Dec 28 22:46
GoblinRFDRoy, Id tend to agree.Dec 28 22:46
tessierschestowitz: Oh geez.Dec 28 22:46
schestowitzThen there's SunDec 28 22:46
tessierHave you been reading the Python mailing lists?Dec 28 22:46
MinceRtessier: also, it is possible to limit a language using the syntaxDec 28 22:46
schestowitzSun employer two of its seniors for JPythonDec 28 22:47
tessierAnd who has been proposing the PLIPs?Dec 28 22:47
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 22:47
schestowitzGoblinRFD: it was the same with PHP4-5Dec 28 22:47
schestowitzAnd Perl maybe.Dec 28 22:47
schestowitzYes, I think Perl too... new release just cameDec 28 22:47
kentmaschestowitz: probs at ellandroad...Dec 28 22:48
schestowitzComprimises hurt at first, then pay off.Dec 28 22:48
schestowitzkentma: thanks, I noticedDec 28 22:48
kentmaWill take abt 1 week to resolveDec 28 22:48
kentmaschestowitz: sorry.Dec 28 22:48
schestowitztrmanco says that Gary posts more libel about me to lots of NGsDec 28 22:48
MinceRan example of syntax limiting the language is here, under SIMPLE: 28 22:48
GoblinRFDit will be interesting to see what the uni's will do.  Continue a course teaching an older version or switch mid term to 3.0.Dec 28 22:48
schestowitz1 week?! :-oDec 28 22:48
kentmaBad news, I knowDec 28 22:49
schestowitzH/w issue?Dec 28 22:49
kentmaYesDec 28 22:49
kentmaPhysical presence rqdDec 28 22:49
schestowitzLet's see....Dec 28 22:49
schestowitzThe issue is that it's hard to pull references without the good archiveDec 28 22:50
kentmaBut it will be up in 7 daysDec 28 22:50
schestowitzNo hurryDec 28 22:50
kentmaSorry, nothing I can do bbefore.Dec 28 22:50
kentmaNever mind - all will be welll.Dec 28 22:51
schestowitzI'll probably use Google.Dec 28 22:58
schestowitzThey impose limits and I can't do "Related:" too well, but it's a decent compromise. :-)Dec 28 22:59
schestowitzkentma: thanks for letting me know! :-) I have a contingency, so it'll be fine.Dec 28 23:05
schestowitzI don't think I'll make good posts (can't easily access information), but it's better than nothing.Dec 28 23:06
schestowitzDragoon told Asay -- privately -- that he wasn't keen on the BrainShare event.Dec 28 23:10
schestowitzAbout OOo and fork, someone tells me that "copyright assignments are the background of this.  Sun needs them in order to continue selling StarOffice, it's part of their bussiness model (and I don't think that's a bad thing if we get OOo as a by-product)."Dec 28 23:11
schestowitz"Besides, the role of OOo is too important, and its development too expensive for us to afford two competing projects.  The same happens with e.g. wine or samba."Dec 28 23:11
schestowitzSo they weaken OOo for selfish gain perhapsDec 28 23:11
*captain_magnus (n=mboman@opensuse/member/MBoman) has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 23:32
neighborleewell its free, so what if they have one for sale, that amoung other things has paid support yadda...kind of like kde which needs qt, which is free for basic use otherwise..Dec 28 23:42
benJImanIt's free for any use by free software.Dec 28 23:43
neighborleeI was just making a offense meant to qt on any levelDec 28 23:44
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Dec 28 23:57
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellDec 28 23:57

Recent Techrights' Posts

Delayed Series About Dr. Richard Stallman
A lot of the attacks on him boil down to petty things
A 3-Year Campaign to Coerce/Intimidate Us Into Censorship: Targeting Several Webhosts (in Collaboration and Conjunction With Mentally-Ill Flunkies)
Every attempt to nuke the current hosting failed, but it's still worth noting
Google: We Don't Have Source Diversity, But We Have Chatbot Spew in Place of Sources (and It's Not Even Accurate)
Search engines and news search never looked this bad...
[Meme] Security is Not a Failure to Boot (or Illusion of Security Due to 'Unknown' System)
Red Hat is largely responsible for this mess
What is Secure Boot?
Security means the user feels safe and secure - i.e. confident that the machine would continue to work following a reboot or a system upgrade (or kernel upgrade)
Links 27/05/2024: Chatbots Generate Hateful Output, TPM Performance Scrutinised
Links for the day
David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) Realises What He Should Have Decades Ago
seeing that DHH is moving away from Apple is kind of a big deal
Microsoft Windows Fell From 100% to Just 7.5% in Sierra Leone
Based on statCounter
In Benin, Microsoft's Windows Fell Below 10%, GNU/Linux Surged to 6% or Higher on Desktops/Laptops
That's nearly 7% - a lot higher than the average in Africa
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, May 27, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, May 27, 2024
[Meme] Elephant in the Asian Room
With ChromeOS included GNU/Linux is at 6% across Asia
GNU/Linux in Bangladesh Up From 0.5% to Over 4% (Windows Slid From 95% to 18%)
Bangladesh is one of the world's most densely-populated countries
Links 27/05/2024: One Month Left for ICQ, More Openwashing Highlighted
Links for the day
Gemini Links 27/05/2024: Back to GNU/Linux, Librem 5 Assessed
Links for the day
StatCounter (or statCounter) Has Mostly Recovered From a Day's Downtime (Malfunction)
Some of the material we've published based on the statCounter datasets truly annoys Microsofters
StatCounter (or statCounter) Has Been Broken for Nearly 24 Hours. Who Benefits? Microsoft.
StatCounter is broken right now and has been broken for nearly 24 hours already
Reinvigorating the Voice of GNU/Linux Users (Not Companies Whose Chiefs Don't Even Use GNU/Linux!)
Scott Ruecker has just announced his return
"Tech" in the Context of Even Bigger Issues
"Tech" (or technology) activism is important; but there's a bigger picture
A Decade of In-Depth Coverage of Corruption at the European Patent Office (EPO)
The world needs transparency and sunlight
Hopefully Not Sunset for StatCounter
We hope that StatCounter will be back soon.
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 26, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, May 26, 2024
Links 27/05/2024: Self-Publishing, Patent Monopolies, and Armed Conflicts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 27/05/2024: Tethering Connection and PFAs
Links for the day
Imagine Canada Enabling Rapists to Harass Their (Rape) Victims
This analogy is applicable because abusers are empowered against the abused
A 3-Year Campaign to Coerce/Intimidate Us Into Censorship: Targeting My Old "Tweets"
This was basically an act of vandalism no better and no worse than UEFI restricted boot
Links 26/05/2024: Google 'Search' Morphing Into Disinformation Factory, Discussion of Maze of the Prison Industrial Complex
Links for the day
In the Pacific (Mostly Islands Around Oceania) GNU/Linux Grew a Lot
Microsoft cannot compete fairly
A Toast to Tux Machines
Food ready for the party, no photos yet...
IBM/Red Hat Failing to Meet Its WARN Obligations in NC (STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA), or Perhaps It's Constantly Delaying the Layoffs
IBM isn't named even once
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, May 25, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, May 25, 2024
GNU/Linux in Greenland
The sharp increases for GNU/Linux started last summer
The Sheer Absurdity of the EPO's Career System Explained by EPO Staff
"Staff representation has previously pointed this out to management, and the career system has been the reason for several industrial actions and litigation cases initiated by SUEPO."
[Meme] Productivity Champ Nellie Simon: It Takes Me 3+ Weeks to Write 6 Paragraphs
Congrats to Nellie Simon!
It Took EPO Management 3+ Weeks to Respond to a Letter About an Urgent Problem (Defunding of EPO Staff)
The funny thing about it is that Nellie Simon expects examiners to work day and night (which is illegal) while she herself takes 3+ weeks to write a 1-page letter
Staff Union of the EPO (SUEPO) in The Hague Taking Action to Rectify Cuts to Families of Workers
they "are active in challenging this measure via the legal system"