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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 29th, 2008 - Part 2

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schestowitzI know sites that offer servicesDec 29 15:16
schestowitzLike search lookups or Digg API-based toolsDec 29 15:16
schestowitzBut what are they doing really?Dec 29 15:16
schestowitzThey sure are self-funded and they offer not much of use, so they get abandoned.Dec 29 15:16
trmancokeeping a record of uptimes that's allDec 29 15:17
schestowitzNewsflash...Dec 29 15:24
schestowitzPJ might no longer do GroklawDec 29 15:24
trmanco:ODec 29 15:24
trmancowhy is that?Dec 29 15:24
schestowitzLong story.Dec 29 15:24
schestowitzWant me to bore you with a long story?Dec 29 15:24
schestowitzIt's annoying. Lots of sites are dying, and not just FOSS sites but also news site (I mentioned ECT the other day).Dec 29 15:25
schestowitz UK wants to censor the web now < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne... >Dec 29 15:27
schestowitzLooks like even Mr. MS TE has run out of gas at his blog after a strong start; hopefully he'll pick up steam again. We'll find out some more about Microsoft's unethical behaviour.Dec 29 15:27
schestowitzHere's something of interest, since I've just had a conversation about it.Dec 29 15:33
schestowitzI'll spill my mind out quickly. ;-)Dec 29 15:33
schestowitzAs you may aware, I was drawn to a world of research that I did not know too well but fulfilled my curiosity nonetheless (no, not my academic field). The things people said about critics... the way people  were threatened... you can maybe find it in the archives on the Internet, but I prefer not to give it visibility.Dec 29 15:34
schestowitzHard experiences can change a person and a person's writing style. PJ uses a style that's kind of decent - she didn't mince words, but I think that there was enough of a difference that she was taken more seriously by the media, and therefore was frequently quoted.Dec 29 15:35
schestowitzSo anyway, maybe it's  time for BN to tone it down a bitDec 29 15:35
schestowitzWith PJ perhaps permanently giving up active management to Groklaw, we might want to consider where we want to set the tone control at the site, as I expect we should see a big bump of traffic coming your way. Dec 29 15:36
schestowitzThese links from Wintel press add very little to us because we deliver 22,000+ pages/day. The participation level from readers is low though. Maybe it's because of the language used.. and the trolls who attack readers.Dec 29 15:36
schestowitzMany sites die and I don't want to see BN going the way of the dodo. Shane, my co-editor, is in a similar situation (his sarcasm was misunderstood last night). Bruce Perens likewise... and many more sites that I read... they drop like flies. I reckon the economic crisis may be related to it, at least in part.Dec 29 15:37
schestowitzSo I'll try to sound more formal. I will bear this in mind when I write, but  if I slip, drop me a note and tell me off. Another issue is the sneaking of bad language through commenters who are trying to do exactly that and bring me/the site down to their level. Groklaw deleted obscene comments for this reason.Dec 29 15:38
schestowitzThen again, re: language, I don't know whether that's a good idea or not, as the style may be very effective, and we're clearly pulling good traffic, so a lot of folks are tuning in to hear what we have to say. Dec 29 15:39
schestowitzI've been in contact with PJ for almost 3  years and she too was drawn into being more emotional when she typed (we all need 'cool down' time sometimes, but when you post at a high pace, there is no such time). She did preach to me about writing style and there are still temptations to deviate and to just spell out what you know for a fact sometimes.Dec 29 15:39
schestowitzI keep trying to improve by slowing down and taking time to 'cool off' because mood affects language (and vice versa).Dec 29 15:39
schestowitzTo use a sketchy analogy, there are things we are not allowed to say or do, but it is hard to avoid them, even it costs us our reputation. I still learn to restrain myself and not to read the libel about me as it only distracts. I don't censor anyone and it comes at a cost. It means you're sunk down to troll's level.Dec 29 15:40
schestowitzThe real reason for all this is that it's important that we use sources with a range of reputations for impartiality, not trolls.Dec 29 15:41
schestowitzWatch how Beranger gets ignored by almost everyoneDec 29 15:41
schestowitzIf we were all as pointed in our styles, then Microsoft, SCO et al could simply say, "Pay no attention to them - they clearly have an axe to grind, and it wouldn't matter what we do, they would still trash us."  That would leave only the secret Microsoft supporters for people to listen to.Dec 29 15:42
schestowitzThat said, BN was cited by Spiegel, Forbes, InformationWeek, IDG (e.g. ComputerWorld), OpenOffice.org front page, etc. People appreciate what they find there and while many are shy to comment and cite they /do/ read it.Dec 29 15:42
schestowitzLikewise, I read some literature and watch some videos that I would rather not cite... about government-induced ignorance and propaganda (even explained by distinguished professors). It helps people like us understand how things work, and how they can be generalised, and what we can pick from them.Dec 29 15:43
schestowitzPart of what I think people pay a lot of attention to is just style.  So I'll try and avoid words like "shill," "puppet," and so on, and let the facts speak for themselves, while at the same time not trying to disguise or hide my opinions. Dec 29 15:43
schestowitzzoobab: NoOOXML failed this test too. Sadly for me, Shane chose a bad site name, which I was never happy with but still unable to change. The name leads to prejudice. From a practical point of view, relocation is not possible now. :-( No-OOXML does not sound exactly like an impartial source, does it?Dec 29 15:44
schestowitzAs PJ said, the k00k status the trolls gave critics using endless libel might make it harder to be treated fairly. The way these things work, the slime tries bringing you down to its levels so that you'll be seen or perceived as slime. The places where I post have intelligent people, but they are not moderated, so they get abused like you wouldn't imagine.Dec 29 15:45
schestowitztrmanco: that's why the trolls in COLA fake people like Terry and attack RMS so frequently.Dec 29 15:46
trmanco:|Dec 29 15:46
schestowitzThey haven't attacked you yet, have they?Dec 29 15:47
schestowitzWhen they do, you'll know you do something right. :-)Dec 29 15:47
schestowitzThey also stalk me in Digg where they attack me with words and mod points.Dec 29 15:47
schestowitzThey do the same to twitter in SlashdotDec 29 15:47
schestowitzThey attack him, lead him to escaping to new accounts and then attack those tooDec 29 15:48
schestowitzNot that I endorse the idiotic idea of multiple accountsDec 29 15:48
schestowitzBut I can understand his frustration because silencing the messenger is exactly what they tried to doDec 29 15:48
schestowitzAnd one former admin of Slashdot has just conffrmred to me that Micrrosoft does do this in SlashdotDec 29 15:49
schestowitzI don't know about Digg, but it''s similar.Dec 29 15:49
schestowitzThey see IPs and stuff that people can't see.Dec 29 15:49
schestowitzSo it's only natural to assume that they very well know what they have in their hands and in Slashdot, for example, they put twitter in the front page quite a lotDec 29 15:50
schestowitzThey know he's being targetted.Dec 29 15:50
schestowitzAnywhoo... that's me getting back to my thing. I need to write a reportDec 29 15:50
trmancoLOL okDec 29 15:56
schestowitzMostly omission of cruftDec 29 15:57
Omar87Is it true that the FaunOS project has been discontinued?Dec 29 16:00
schestowitzLikelyDec 29 16:02
schestowitzI haven't heard about it in almost a yearDec 29 16:02
schestowitz1970: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1A2ZZAfEn8Dec 29 16:13
Omar87schestowitz: Okay this is weird.Dec 29 16:22
Omar87When I checked it out on DistroWatch, it clearly says: "This distribution is active", and the same thing with Arch Linux.Dec 29 16:23
trmancoArch Linux is activeDec 29 16:23
Omar87But how come on Wikipedia, it says: "as of semptember 2008", this project has been discontinued.. ?_?Dec 29 16:24
Omar87http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaunOSDec 29 16:24
trmancoI have no ideaDec 29 16:24
Omar87This means that either the DistroWatch page is out-dated, or that the WikiPedia page is a made by one of those little brats..Dec 29 16:27
Omar87What freaks you out even more is that the FaunOS site, itself doesn't say anything about discontinuation.Dec 29 16:29
schestowitzOut of date I reckonDec 29 16:29
Omar87What is out of date?Dec 29 16:30
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?num=50&...Dec 29 16:30
schestowitz" FaunOS (discontinued lasdt September 2008)"Dec 29 16:31
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seller_liarDamn!Dec 29 16:35
seller_liarNovell is attacking OO again!Dec 29 16:35
seller_liarhttp://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl...Dec 29 16:35
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seller_liarHey homerDec 29 16:46
seller_liarNovell is attacking againDec 29 16:46
seller_liarWhy we must do?Dec 29 16:46
seller_liarWhat we must do?Dec 29 16:46
schestowitzHeyDec 29 16:47
seller_liarhello rotDec 29 16:47
seller_liarroyDec 29 16:47
schestowitzseller_liar: I wrote about it twiceDec 29 16:47
schestowitz:-) common typo. I do it too sometimesDec 29 16:47
seller_liarI knowDec 29 16:47
schestowitzWhat else can I do?Dec 29 16:47
schestowitzSome sites linked to my rebuttals.Dec 29 16:47
seller_liarI was trying to read slashdot argumentsDec 29 16:48
seller_liarand I was trying to destroy novell argumentsDec 29 16:48
schestowitzSlashdot is airing old newDec 29 16:48
schestowitz*news. Shame on themDec 29 16:48
schestowitzTwo companies gain from thisDec 29 16:48
seller_liarBut I was reading the argumentsDec 29 16:48
schestowitzNovell, because it's more pwoer and support contractsDec 29 16:48
seller_liarSome people try to defendDec 29 16:48
schestowitzMicrosoft too, as it makes another civil warDec 29 16:48
schestowitzFragmentation and all...Dec 29 16:48
seller_liarI remember , it's similar at rms vs theoDec 29 16:49
seller_liarHey roy ,try to do some questions in openoffice siteDec 29 16:49
seller_liarTry to contact oo devsDec 29 16:50
seller_liarand explains the reasons for Sun don t permit all contribuitiosnDec 29 16:50
seller_liar*and try to ask the reasons for oo does not permit all contribsDec 29 16:50
schestowitzI know the reaons.Dec 29 16:51
seller_liarTell meDec 29 16:51
schestowitzIt's accentuated by NovellsDec 29 16:51
seller_liarBusiness?Dec 29 16:51
schestowitz*NovellDec 29 16:51
schestowitzControl over code, just like in Linux.Dec 29 16:51
schestowitzYou can't slip things into Linux, either.Dec 29 16:52
seller_liarControl over code is important for Sun.Sun is the major open souce contrbutor and needs thist type of controleDec 29 16:52
schestowitzMeeks daemonises OOo based on character ("they are bad people") and technical stuff ("they lack features, so download Go-OOXML")Dec 29 16:52
seller_liarWhat novell wants?Dec 29 16:53
schestowitzseller_liar: businesses would not pick something built by any arbitrary patcher, either. OOo is an important projectDec 29 16:53
seller_liarNovell wants to own OODec 29 16:53
schestowitzit stores national archives and such, billing, etc.Dec 29 16:53
seller_liarseller_liar: Of courseDec 29 16:53
schestowitzLook how WordPress got poisonedDec 29 16:53
schestowitzSomeone sneaked in a back door... I can't recall which versionDec 29 16:53
schestowitzTo Microsoft it almost happened tooDec 29 16:53
schestowitzThey caught and arrested the culprit in IndiaDec 29 16:54
schestowitz*LOL* @ <seller_liar> seller_liar: Of courseDec 29 16:54
schestowitzIt's like in Lord of the Rings.Dec 29 16:54
schestowitz"My preeeeeciousDec 29 16:54
seller_liarIf all organizations and govts uses go-ooxml ,m$ gains power becauseDec 29 16:54
seller_liarOOXMLDec 29 16:54
seller_liarschestowitz: Oh sorryDec 29 16:54
schestowitzWell, never mind thatDec 29 16:55
schestowitzIf Novell holds the userbase, then Microsoft has greater temptation to buy NovellDec 29 16:55
schestowitzIt would then butter both sides of the toastDec 29 16:55
schestowitzhttp://www.zuco.org/science-vs-ad...Dec 29 16:56
seller_liarwe mus put ooxml and moonlgiht as sh*tDec 29 16:57
schestowitzHow?Dec 29 16:58
seller_liar*It's a good thing to put ooxml and moonlight  as piece of sh*tDec 29 16:58
seller_liarGnu dejects moonlight and OOXMLDec 29 16:58
schestowitzYou're competing with Novell PR and the press, which can be boughtDec 29 16:59
schestowitzSo you must put your bets on people's trustDec 29 16:59
schestowitzAnd the trolls in BN try to erode trust in us.Dec 29 16:59
seller_liarI don t know what we must doDec 29 17:01
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schestowitz"With retail, housing and even hi-tech grinding to a bit of a halt in recent months, most commentators would agree that 2009 is going to be a slow year." < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/... >Dec 29 17:21
schestowitz"Slow year..." Understatement of the year [pun]Dec 29 17:22
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20081228/... (Australian Net Censorship Plan Delayed Temporarily)Dec 29 17:32
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schestowitzAvailable Now: Lunar Linux 1.6.4 < http://news.softpedia.com/news/Avail... > Looks neat.Dec 29 17:43
schestowitz:-S Downturn will slow Mozilla's growth < http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi... >Dec 29 17:50
neighborleefriend tried lunar once, he gave up.Dec 29 17:50
neighborleeand he's a longtime linux'erDec 29 17:50
schestowitzWhat's it based on?Dec 29 17:50
neighborleedont recall what his issues were atm but I could askDec 29 17:50
neighborleewhy was commenter so angry about moonlight in debian,,its not like its part of the installer or has something changed recently ?Dec 29 17:53
schestowitzI think it's in the reposDec 29 17:53
schestowitzThe infection is gradualDec 29 17:53
schestowitzLet the finger go, soon it's the fist and the armDec 29 17:53
schestowitzI don't trust Mono and Go-OOXMLDec 29 17:53
neighborleehehDec 29 17:53
schestowitzbrbDec 29 17:54
neighborleeI dont either,,its clear what they are trying to doDec 29 17:54
neighborleeyou'd have to had lived under a rock the last few years or so , to not get that m$ does not have linux interest at 'heart' lolDec 29 17:55
neighborleeI wondered about that too..the 'shane' comment had to be fakeDec 29 17:57
neighborleeit made no sense , coming from 'ex' editorDec 29 17:57
neighborleeie: out of characterDec 29 17:57
neighborleeas in completely ;)Dec 29 17:57
schestowitzwatch the go-ooxml web siteDec 29 17:58
schestowitzRead the first sentence.Dec 29 17:58
schestowitzIt comes without saying that.. well, Miguel helped resolving comments on OOXMLDec 29 17:58
schestowitzHe was helping Microsoft win standards war.Dec 29 17:58
schestowitzLike he does with .NETDec 29 17:58
neighborleepitifullly obvious yupDec 29 17:58
schestowitzLike he sort of 'attacked' the EU commissioner for 'daring' to criticise Microsoft.Dec 29 17:59
neighborleetrouble is we find these things because we, as linux users worried about siuch things, take the time TO check these things outDec 29 17:59
schestowitz"Why the EU regulators are wrong" I think was his little piece of mind.Dec 29 17:59
neighborleemost users may not have time, they just use their computersDec 29 17:59
schestowitzYou can google it.Dec 29 17:59
neighborleeyupDec 29 17:59
neighborleeso such things can easily slip under most users radarDec 29 18:00
schestowitzRe: shane. Check later comments.Dec 29 18:00
neighborleekinda like government..some pay attention, some dontDec 29 18:00
neighborleeokDec 29 18:00
neighborleeI totally agree with twitter,,shane comments made zero senseDec 29 18:00
schestowitzI don't know what he saw.Dec 29 18:00
schestowitzBut I paste a comment from a reader.Dec 29 18:01
schestowitzIt made a lot of sense to me.Dec 29 18:01
schestowitz*pastedDec 29 18:01
neighborleewell I mean  the indida partDec 29 18:01
schestowitzHe doesn't know what happened.Dec 29 18:01
neighborleeyou had notihng to do with that,,that was ALL novelDec 29 18:01
neighborleeI caught that immediately tooDec 29 18:01
schestowitzNo one was arrestedDec 29 18:01
schestowitzThey were escorted out.Dec 29 18:01
neighborleeyes, but the point was not you guys,it was al novelDec 29 18:01
schestowitzFor a /friendly/ non-violent protest where they used postersDec 29 18:02
neighborleeyup I know all about itDec 29 18:02
neighborleeI keep up ;)Dec 29 18:02
neighborleemostly ;)Dec 29 18:02
neighborleehoneslty though..if shane was that misinformed about the india incident, I think im glad he's a 'ex' editor.Dec 29 18:03
neighborleestill doesn't make senseDec 29 18:04
neighborleeok I just read 12/129 post..and I think he really does need a vacationDec 29 18:05
neighborleeI've read MANY posts on this site of yours , and while I dont consider myselfr a poster boy for BN on ANY level ( I have a mind of my own, and thx I use it) I never felt BN engaged in attacks compared to the level of disgust I felt coming from types like Jo, alex, yadda...there is zero comparison imho.Dec 29 18:06
schestowitzHm.......Dec 29 18:11
schestowitzMessages bounce of my server.Dec 29 18:11
schestowitzFrom one server to another. very odd.Dec 29 18:11
neighborleebounce ? ;)Dec 29 18:12
schestowitzA message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of itsDec 29 18:12
schestowitzrecipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz  r@schestowitz.comDec 29 18:12
schestowitz    SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<r schestowitz com>:Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz    host lin-mx100.hosting.catalyst2.com [194.176.124.192]:Dec 29 18:12
schestowitz    550 mx for transport sender domain - pass3.dizinc.com - should be a fqdn.Dec 29 18:12
schestowitzLike 30 of them since the morning.Dec 29 18:12
schestowitzI've had some issues with the filters recently.Dec 29 18:12
schestowitzPeople can't mail me because it rejects themDec 29 18:12
neighborleeah okDec 29 18:12
neighborleenastyDec 29 18:13
neighborleewant me to try?Dec 29 18:13
schestowitzI tested it myself.Dec 29 18:14
schestowitzI'll tell the bostDec 29 18:14
schestowitzhostDec 29 18:14
neighborleesentDec 29 18:15
schestowitz"Recently I've had mail bouncing back to some people who mailed me. I think it's a filtering thing. Here is a sample..."Dec 29 18:17
schestowitzEven close friends had it bounceDec 29 18:17
neighborleeeekDec 29 18:17
schestowitzYou know, I missed many meetings cause of thisDec 29 18:17
schestowitzIn fact, I blame the Windows zombies for all that SPAM chaosDec 29 18:18
schestowitzWindows killed E-mail..Dec 29 18:18
neighborleesorry to hear thatDec 29 18:19
schestowitzOh wait.Dec 29 18:19
schestowitzIt seems like it's on the other handDec 29 18:19
schestowitzSubscribers have bounces as well.Dec 29 18:19
neighborleehmDec 29 18:20
neighborleemine has not come back yetDec 29 18:20
schestowitzI think I know what's happening.Dec 29 18:20
schestowitzSome stupid spammers use scatterbackDec 29 18:21
schestowitzThey create false accounts in BNDec 29 18:21
schestowitzThis leads to many E-mails being sent to non-extistnt addresses.Dec 29 18:21
schestowitzSo maybe the host clogged it upDec 29 18:21
schestowitzThat's the best explanation I can find.Dec 29 18:22
schestowitzDana uses bald Britney Spears to talk about patents: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-s...Dec 29 18:26
neighborleeoooook , this outta be rich ;)Dec 29 18:26
schestowitzI've just disabled registrationsDec 29 18:28
schestowitzOK.... http://boycottnovell.com/wp-login.phpDec 29 18:28
schestowitzBut the host needs to ensure mail can go throughDec 29 18:29
schestowitzThose spammers ruin so much. I've just hd to close comments on old items because of themDec 29 18:29
schestowitzI spend like an hour a week just reading about feet fetish, viagra, casino and other spam.Dec 29 18:30
schestowitzSo now it's impossible for people to comment on old item.. because of spammersDec 29 18:30
schestowitzNow registrations are closed.Dec 29 18:30
neighborleehmDec 29 18:30
neighborleeI used to have no end of spam issues until I started using gmailDec 29 18:30
neighborleenow I never get any to speak of,unless I check out spam folder.Dec 29 18:31
schestowitzYou can still lose messages that wayDec 29 18:32
schestowitzUnless you check that folder tooDec 29 18:32
schestowitzIn which case you separate spam but not eliminate itDec 29 18:32
schestowitzHa!!Dec 29 18:32
schestowitzI got an E-mailDec 29 18:32
schestowitzMaybe that sorted things out.Dec 29 18:32
neighborleegood ;)Dec 29 18:33
neighborleemaybe my email saved you for today <ha-ha>Dec 29 18:33
neighborleeyes I try to remember to check somewhat regular to avoid losing things :))hehDec 29 18:33
schestowitzI spent extra time this morning checking comments cause I haven't notificationDec 29 18:34
schestowitzI typically have nice animated popups that alert me when comments drop in, so I can reply fastDec 29 18:34
schestowitzLet me see if the host fixed it.Dec 29 18:34
schestowitzWhat did you mail?Dec 29 18:35
schestowitzOh I see nowDec 29 18:35
schestowitzWrong address. :-)Dec 29 18:35
schestowitzI redirect to to one of my 22 E-mail accounts on schestowitz.comDec 29 18:35
neighborleelolDec 29 18:35
neighborleeI just used what you posted in here a moment agoiDec 29 18:35
neighborlee-iDec 29 18:36
neighborleeinstall fast! lolDec 29 18:36
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 29 18:36
schestowitzThat was confuisng... I got too E-mails from "Lees"Dec 29 18:36
schestowitzOne was from Peter Lee.Dec 29 18:36
neighborleelolDec 29 18:36
schestowitz"Greetings!Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz                             Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz            URGENT  BUSINESS PROPOSAL FOR YOU, FROM HONG KONG!!!!Dec 29 18:36
schestowitz                                              Dec 29 18:36
schestowitzIt is understandable that you might be a little bit apprehensive because you doDec 29 18:36
schestowitznot know me, Please forgive this unusual manner to contact you, but thisDec 29 18:36
schestowitzparticular letter/email is of exceptional"Dec 29 18:36
neighborleeroflDec 29 18:36
schestowitz06:00 PMDec 29 18:37
schestowitzCoincidenceDec 29 18:37
neighborleedo they really think anyone is fooled by this garbage ;)Dec 29 18:37
schestowitzSo I was like, "what that other lee thing"?Dec 29 18:37
schestowitz*what'sDec 29 18:37
neighborleehaDec 29 18:37
neighborleehad a good xmas I hope ;)Dec 29 18:38
neighborleewe certainly didDec 29 18:38
schestowitzI did, yeah..Dec 29 18:38
schestowitzI still have some days to restDec 29 18:38
schestowitzNext year will be a killerDec 29 18:39
schestowitzIMH(assessment)Dec 29 18:39
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archi...Dec 29 18:39
neighborleeitw as to be somewhat sad as my father had passed away on 9/4 so I  wasn't looking fwd to it, but it was a family feeling to it as we went to friends new house,,and it was grand day ;)Dec 29 18:39
schestowitzI'm so sorry to hear it.Dec 29 18:39
neighborleecould very well be yesDec 29 18:39
neighborleenp at allDec 29 18:39
schestowitzYou told me before.Dec 29 18:39
neighborleehe was not happy in rest home, on any levelDec 29 18:39
neighborleenp ;)Dec 29 18:39
schestowitzThis reminded me to ensure I disclose stuff, in case of worst circumstances.Dec 29 18:40
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/...Dec 29 18:40
neighborleenow he is with our mother, who went on in 1987 brain cancer..he's now totaly happy, where before only marginallyDec 29 18:40
neighborleeok kewlDec 29 18:40
schestowitzGood to hear that.Dec 29 18:40
neighborleeit truly is yupDec 29 18:41
schestowitzForcing people to be down here on Earth is not always fair to them. My grandma knows this.Dec 29 18:41
neighborleeyes quite.Dec 29 18:41
schestowitzBut that's a private story, I think.Dec 29 18:41
neighborleemy grandma only lasted one month in nursing homeDec 29 18:41
neighborleeshe told me before she had no desire to goto one, and she didnt last longDec 29 18:42
schestowitzActually, I leave too much room for speculation here, so I'd rather say it now,Dec 29 18:42
neighborleegotchaDec 29 18:42
schestowitzShe was almost 90 and she overdosed her pills because she didn't like moving into a parents' homeDec 29 18:42
schestowitzWhich is fair enough, it was her choiceDec 29 18:42
schestowitzTrying to save her is not what she wanted, but the doctors were close.Dec 29 18:43
neighborleewell you know,,only god can judgteDec 29 18:43
neighborleejudgeDec 29 18:43
schestowitzThen there's my dog, Jenny.Dec 29 18:43
schestowitzShe was like 17.Dec 29 18:43
schestowitzAlmost blind.Dec 29 18:43
neighborleeand somehow I doubt the god I know, judges terribly harshly ..we all have to come to grips with morality  on various levels I guess but god I think is above it allDec 29 18:43
neighborleeerr you know what I mean ;)Dec 29 18:43
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog... http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/arch...Dec 29 18:44
neighborlee17 is good long life for dog yupDec 29 18:46
neighborleelosing them is rough..I was raised around dogs and cats so I get very close to themDec 29 18:46
neighborleeist like losing a child when they go...unconditional love is a stinker when its gone o_0Dec 29 18:47
neighborleegetting a new poochie  from shelter though has been rewarding beyond measure..Dec 29 18:48
neighborleecheckingDec 29 18:48
neighborleeah yes they make great companionsDec 29 18:50
neighborleefriends we spent xmas with have 2 , very similarDec 29 18:50
neighborleevery w arm dogsDec 29 18:50
neighborleeonce I start paying attention to them its all over for anyone else :)heheDec 29 18:51
neighborleeincluding humans ,hahaDec 29 18:51
neighborleeschestowitz, ohbtw..why does your site cause firefox scrollbar to react so slowly..some sites do it and I have always wondered whyDec 29 18:52
schestowitzMy sister took it harder anywayDec 29 18:52
neighborleecommonDec 29 18:52
schestowitzMaybe translucence?Dec 29 18:52
schestowitz*cy?Dec 29 18:52
neighborleemen are not told its ok to have emotions afterall ;)Dec 29 18:52
neighborleeno ideaDec 29 18:53
schestowitzAttachment depends on upbringing.Dec 29 18:53
schestowitzSome men are drained out of human emotion so that they join the army and become tools.Dec 29 18:53
schestowitzThe aspiration is to have people so soulless that they are just detached from emotions and attacked to a machine (not just in the physical sense)Dec 29 18:54
schestowitzBut that often is the nature of predatory capitalism where success can only be measured in terms of  physical gain.Dec 29 18:54
neighborleeyes army can do thatDec 29 18:54
schestowitzAnd likewise, a person success is judged from the outside in terms of countable objects or numbers that are analogous to them.Dec 29 18:55
schestowitzneighborlee: can? it does.Dec 29 18:55
neighborleeI never went in,my f ather was medic in navy thoughDec 29 18:55
neighborleewellI meanDec 29 18:55
schestowitzWhat do you think boot camp is aboutDec 29 18:55
neighborleeI think some people take it differently than othersDec 29 18:55
neighborleelike why one person cant take a given type of stress, while someone else is overall fineDec 29 18:55
schestowitzIt's about insulting and demeaning to the point where a person is thankful just to have a bed, a meal and 5 hours of sleepDec 29 18:55
schestowitzneighborlee: I think it's mostly education-drivenDec 29 18:56
neighborleeyup I know of thisDec 29 18:56
schestowitzYou can grow people to be  mosters if you tryDec 29 18:56
neighborleethast the whole ideaDec 29 18:56
neighborleethatsDec 29 18:56
schestowitzYou can make them paranoid and afraid of stangers by introducing c"Creatures" and "witches"Dec 29 18:56
neighborleethat way its easier to killl..Dec 29 18:56
schestowitzWhether it's productive and intructive is a sepate issueDec 29 18:56
neighborleetravestyDec 29 18:56
schestowitzPoeple did experiements to study the impact of fear on character of children.Dec 29 18:57
schestowitzFPSes are about trainin people to killDec 29 18:57
schestowitzThing is... Jack Thompson gave a bad name to people who point this outDec 29 18:57
neighborleesighDec 29 18:57
schestowitzBy accusing Gates of things that Microsoft has not done... violent games that just run but don't makeDec 29 18:57
schestowitzThe military actually funds some of these games and people demand them because of peer pressureDec 29 18:58
neighborleetoo many violent games out there nowDec 29 18:58
schestowitzYou can trivially manufacture a desire for such games by repeatedly showing them in a "cool" context on TVDec 29 18:58
schestowitzViolent is "Cool"Dec 29 18:58
neighborleeI can tell you 100% if such games had been out there in my    childhood and I was caught playing them,  BYE BYE computer for a VERY long time.Dec 29 18:58
schestowitzAsk any kid who watches Rambo films and suchDec 29 18:58
neighborleeyup thats the ideaDec 29 18:59
schestowitzWar is glorified.Dec 29 18:59
neighborleeof courseDec 29 18:59
schestowitzFighting the "bad guys" for Uncle Sam is glamorisedDec 29 18:59
schestowitzAnd America has 'heroes' (like the new song) who kill the 'bad guys' in IrawDec 29 18:59
schestowitz*IraqDec 29 18:59
neighborleenastyDec 29 18:59
schestowitzYeah... 1.3 million 'bad' guys... and gals... and kids... and babies.Dec 29 18:59
neighborleewar is easier than actuallly having to made new fr iends..to bush and his cronies anywayDec 29 19:00
neighborleethakfullly  thats all overDec 29 19:00
neighborleewe hope ;)Dec 29 19:00
schestowitzWell, they used to have friends.Dec 29 19:02
neighborleebut it wont end there..the mentality of love thy neighbor has to extend everywhere for things to truly change globally..thats going to take alot of work but I think obama has alot of the right 'stuff' or at least desire to make them realityDec 29 19:02
neighborleeyupDec 29 19:02
schestowitzThe United States was a big friend of Mr. Hussein.Dec 29 19:02
neighborleeyesDec 29 19:02
schestowitzBut he was no longer willing to be their puppetDec 29 19:02
neighborleewhat a messDec 29 19:02
schestowitzApart from the atrocitiesDec 29 19:02
schestowitz[which by the way were assisted by Thatcher and ... was it Ronald?]Dec 29 19:02
neighborleenot sure, I wasn't very political back then..not at allDec 29 19:03
neighborleehaving enough trouble living life as it was, to be so.Dec 29 19:03
schestowitzI'm not sure about Obama anymoreDec 29 19:03
neighborleewellDec 29 19:03
neighborleeim not in love with some of his choices ,,Dec 29 19:03
schestowitzBiden is pro-war and Rahm Emanuel was appointed too. He might be worse.Dec 29 19:03
neighborleeso to that ill just say, w'ell see o_0Dec 29 19:03
schestowitzSo you could choose between brandsDec 29 19:03
neighborleeI think he is so worried about taking middle ground that he mnight be slightly blinded ..but we'll see ;)Dec 29 19:04
schestowitzThe Obama ("Change") brand or "the other thing" (more of the same). But the people who made the core of it have similar policies.Dec 29 19:04
schestowitzThey are, after all, funded by the same companies.;-)Dec 29 19:04
neighborleebuck stops with obama thoughDec 29 19:04
neighborleebut we'll see..he is in charge of his own desitny..Dec 29 19:05
neighborleedestiny o_0Dec 29 19:05
schestowitz"Come everyone, it's been 4 years, come and vote.. behold the 'choice'... feel the democracy... never mind if you live in a one-party state... of corporcracy"Dec 29 19:05
schestowitzSheeshDec 29 19:05
schestowitzDestiny, Unity, ChangeDec 29 19:06
schestowitzNice slogan he got there.Dec 29 19:06
neighborlee:)Dec 29 19:06
schestowitzhttp://www.hmnl.nl/HMNL/web.nsf/v... I really commend these attempts to push IBM to do the Right Thing. I've already tried without much success.Dec 29 19:11
schestowitzThere's some response to that word about PJ.. "Wow -- that's news to me.  Her site always impressed me and I felt like she got it right in the way she did things.  I hope that, if she quits, then she can find someone else to pick up the mantel." I hope she staysDec 29 19:13
schestowitzShe's not  replying to mailsDec 29 19:13
neighborleeIdont worry allot about some things..things I cant control , but things I can I try to make a difference of course...abs. power corrupts yadda..those who think power makes them formiddable forget the eye of needle teaching,,some have power and use it for good though .Dec 29 19:13
schestowitzPower for change worksDec 29 19:14
schestowitznew example: http://techdirt.com/articles/2008122... (Australian Net Censorship Plan Delayed Temporarily)Dec 29 19:14
schestowitzOld examples: feminisms, people against slavery, etc.Dec 29 19:14
neighborleeyesDec 29 19:14
neighborleesuch things we've always had with us, just given a new name ;)Dec 29 19:15
schestowitzNovell chnages because of BN alsoDec 29 19:15
schestowitzThere are confirmed examplesDec 29 19:15
schestowitzhttp://go.theregister.com/feed/www....Dec 29 19:19
schestowitzUK.gov to push Obama for tougher rules online "The culture secretary Andy Burnham has suggested the UK should lead an international effort to introduce cinema-style age ratings on websites to prevent children accessing "unacceptable" material online."Dec 29 19:23
trmancoanyone know the ascii code for (R)Dec 29 19:26
trmanco?Dec 29 19:26
schestowitzI just copy and paste it.Dec 29 19:27
schestowitz"A trademark or trade mark, identified by the symbols â„¢ and €®"Dec 29 19:28
trmancoI just wanted the R with the circle around it to make fun of something :-PDec 29 19:28
trmancoha thanksDec 29 19:28
schestowitzFrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrademarkDec 29 19:28
neighborleeschestowitz, about time pron was put to a early rest..I wasn't raised that way, and im saddened to see it flourish on any levelDec 29 19:31
neighborleeto me it taints what love, and love making are meant to be.Dec 29 19:32
neighborleebut thats just me, some might call me old fashioned ;)Dec 29 19:32
neighborleelolDec 29 19:32
schestowitzThat's The RegisterDec 29 19:34
schestowitzI was reading tech news and it showed uDec 29 19:34
schestowitzSo I thought I'd share it in spirit of the err.. winterDec 29 19:34
neighborlee:)Dec 29 19:43
schestowitzThese winters are probable fake anywayDec 29 19:45
trmancolol @ schestowitz's spamchaff pageDec 29 19:46
trmancohttp://schestowitz.com/spamchaffDec 29 19:46
trmancointerestingDec 29 19:46
MinceR:)Dec 29 19:47
trmancoOT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Dec 29 19:59
schestowitztrmanco: I borrows the ideaDec 29 20:00
schestowitzWith attributionDec 29 20:00
schestowitz[from my boss at the time (around 2003)Dec 29 20:00
trmancoLOLDec 29 20:00
trmancoits funnyDec 29 20:00
schestowitzHe too borrowed it from somewhereDec 29 20:00
schestowitzHe was getting about 50 SPAM per day at the timeDec 29 20:00
schestowitzThe following year, Gates said SPAM would vanishDec 29 20:00
schestowitzIn Davos he said that, IIRCDec 29 20:01
schestowitzFound it ""Spam will be a thing of the past in two years’ time." --Bill Gates, 2004Dec 29 20:01
schestowitzBotmaster later stepped down, but SPAM did not end.Dec 29 20:01
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/...Dec 29 20:02
trmancoit is all a lieDec 29 20:03
schestowitzhttp://tecnicos.escenf.unam.edu.ar/codigo-a...Dec 29 20:04
schestowitzThat cartoon I madq very quickly has spread quite far.Dec 29 20:04
trmancoLOOLDec 29 20:05
trmancoI'll brbDec 29 20:05
schestowitzJust stumbled upon http://blip.tv/file/1618916Dec 29 20:05
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trmancobackDec 29 20:11
schestowitzPerceived Value Is Reality http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/1...Dec 29 20:28
schestowitzThink about Apple and MS products. "But what kind of incentive is most effective and brings the most return for the retailer? A discount? A gift? Free shipping?"Dec 29 20:29
schestowitz'Discounted' Windows (does it cost anything to make a copy?)Dec 29 20:29
schestowitz$2000 Macs...\Dec 29 20:30
schestowitzOOo responds to Novell: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/the_...Dec 29 20:35
schestowitzI think it's a response, but it's subtleDec 29 20:35
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neighborleecheckingDec 29 20:45
TallkencheckedDec 29 20:46
Tallkenschestowitz, http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/12/29/bri... -- the title says it all ^^Dec 29 20:47
schestowitzThanks, old news :-)Dec 29 20:47
schestowitzFrom last week :-) But thanks!Dec 29 20:47
schestowitzI'm doing  rebuttal to the Go-OOXML-imposed FUD Novell unleashedDec 29 20:48
Tallkenok :pDec 29 20:48
trmancoI only saw that today tooDec 29 20:49
neighborleeyeah I wont use notepad or wordpay anymore..oo all the way babyDec 29 20:49
schestowitzTallken: let me see...Dec 29 20:50
schestowitzYou might enjoy what I wrote about it: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12...Dec 29 20:50
schestowitzIt's mostly a news accumulation from that dayDec 29 20:50
trmancohttp://fedorasolved.org/Dec 29 20:54
neighborleeI was using fedora but I kinda gave up,,I could not get skype to work audio wize no matter what I tried and never got forum help..for me it was under 'must work' item.Dec 29 20:56
Tallkenschestowitz, thanksDec 29 20:56
neighborleetrmanco, sad but trueDec 29 20:56
trmanconeighborlee, good thing that you have choiceDec 29 20:56
neighborleetrmanco, I dont see it that wayDec 29 20:57
trmancowhat dist is working for you at the moment?Dec 29 20:57
neighborleetrmanco, but I get the point.Dec 29 20:57
neighborleemandrivaDec 29 20:57
trmanconever tried itDec 29 20:57
neighborlee2009 kde lived-installedDec 29 20:57
trmancocoolDec 29 20:57
neighborleewell..at least mandriva has no mono,,at least not in default recommended,,same as fedoraDec 29 20:57
trmancoFedora 9 doesn't work for me very well either (school)Dec 29 20:58
Tallkeni deleted saturday my second gentoo partial install by accidentDec 29 20:58
neighborleeouchDec 29 20:58
neighborleesorry to hear thatDec 29 20:58
trmancooopsDec 29 20:58
Tallkeni want a rolling distroDec 29 20:58
neighborleearch is I thinkDec 29 20:58
trmancowhat do you mean by rolling?Dec 29 20:58
neighborleeso is mint I thinkDec 29 20:58
Tallkenya arch is gathering much momentumDec 29 20:58
neighborleeyeahDec 29 20:58
Tallkenmint as well?Dec 29 20:58
neighborleeseems soDec 29 20:59
Tallkenbut I've  asoft spot for GentooDec 29 20:59
Tallkentrmanco, always updatedDec 29 20:59
trmancook thanksDec 29 20:59
Tallkentrmanco, instead of: relase, stable for 6 months, release, stable for 6 months and so onDec 29 20:59
neighborleeI like gentoo for its ability to customize via USE, but I never could see past hastle of compiling everything I wanted to use..Dec 29 20:59
Tallkenor for two here if you use to a LTS and don't wish to upgradeDec 29 20:59
TallkenUSE="-mono" ^^Dec 29 20:59
neighborleeROFLDec 29 21:00
neighborleeindeed ;)))Dec 29 21:00
Tallkenwell there are three issues with GentooDec 29 21:00
trmancoyeah I get itDec 29 21:00
Tallkenthe community is in bad shape, though now it's on the track to reorganizeDec 29 21:00
trmancoI've tried Arch on a VMDec 29 21:00
trmancoI like its package managerDec 29 21:00
trmancopacman :DDec 29 21:00
neighborleeTallken, glad to hear thatDec 29 21:00
neighborleetrmanco, yupDec 29 21:00
Tallkenemerge is kinda wacko -- not a problem for me since I'm used to it but a newbie will get nuts with circular dependenciesDec 29 21:00
trmancoI used to do a lot of pacman -SyuDec 29 21:01
neighborleeTallken, ouchDec 29 21:01
trmancoI haven't tried gentoo, yetDec 29 21:01
neighborleemake sure you have at least 6 hours free ;)Dec 29 21:01
Tallkenthough I think it's actually a *fix* which is causing it, initially it would install though some depedencies weren't met, but on the building process things would go right :pDec 29 21:01
neighborleeor so depending how fast your system is ;))))Dec 29 21:01
trmanconeighborlee, LOLDec 29 21:02
Tallkenneighborlee, more. I was installing Gentoo in /gentooDec 29 21:02
neighborlee:)Dec 29 21:02
Tallkenand was planning to switch the files' place once I had it all compiledDec 29 21:02
Tallkenusing a LiveCDDec 29 21:02
Tallkenand there is one issue missingDec 29 21:02
Tallkenbut can't remember which one was :pDec 29 21:02
neighborleeis gentoo livecd finally doable or is stilll in category of only if your a linux enthusiast ;)Dec 29 21:03
schestowitzTallken: check out the arch IRC channel. it's /loaded/Dec 29 21:05
schestowitz3 times as many people as #mandrivaDec 29 21:05
Tallkenneighborlee, I didn't even used itDec 29 21:05
Tallkenused old install methodDec 29 21:05
Tallkena bunch of tar.gzDec 29 21:05
Tallkenand you're on the right track :pDec 29 21:05
neighborleeyup most doDec 29 21:06
neighborleewell arch is for a different community entirely ;)Dec 29 21:07
neighborleeone are major geeks and another are regular users who moonlight as geeks ;)Dec 29 21:07
neighborleeimho of course :)Dec 29 21:07
neighborleeoops damn I said moonlightDec 29 21:07
TallkenlolDec 29 21:07
neighborlee:)Dec 29 21:07
TallkenArch is new Gentoo... Gentoo had a wonderful community back in old daysDec 29 21:08
Tallken*Arch is the new...Dec 29 21:08
neighborleeyea but can arch compile with use flags,,or some equiv?Dec 29 21:08
neighborleethat is a big dealDec 29 21:08
neighborleeI mean for those who are into it per seDec 29 21:08
MinceRgentoo has docs though :>Dec 29 21:10
Tallkenneighborlee, you can use local use flags, since you can use ABS to build your own custom packageDec 29 21:11
Tallkenas for global ones, for  example, if one wishes to disable mono for the whole system, I'm unawareDec 29 21:12
neighborleeMinceR, hehDec 29 21:18
neighborleeyeah docs rock ;)Dec 29 21:18
neighborleefew/bad  docs can ruin a project..Dec 29 21:19
neighborleegame engine I user, just got a user from another engine where bad docs etc. brought them over..stuff happens ;(Dec 29 21:19
neighborlee............useDec 29 21:19
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/jimmi-hugh-w...Dec 29 21:22
schestowitzI don't get it. They bend backwards to defend mischief.Dec 29 21:22
schestowitzSome days ago I saw a denialist changing history on Microsoft's "letters from dead people". Amazing!!Dec 29 21:23
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schestowitzRebuttal: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/sun-r...Dec 29 21:37
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schestowitzNetsplitDec 29 21:38
Tallkenthe investigators can create a file with the desired MD5sumDec 29 21:38
Tallkenbut it's a data filled with garbageDec 29 21:38
trmancobut still, you haven't answered my questionDec 29 21:38
schestowitzJust in case:Dec 29 21:39
schestowitz <trmanco>which is stronger and more secure? SHA1 or MD5?Dec 29 21:39
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schestowitzDec 29 21:25:39 <trmanco>headshotDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:26:14 <Tallken>lolDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:26:33 <Tallken>trmanco, MD5 has seen at least one attack developed against itDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:26:45 <Tallken>it's useless, for now, but the research has startedDec 29 21:39
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schestowitzDec 29 21:27:08 <Tallken>the investigators can create a file with the desired MD5sumDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:27:19 <Tallken>but it's a data filled with garbageDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:27:29 <schestowitz>NetsplitDec 29 21:39
schestowitzDec 29 21:27:47 <trmanco>but still, you haven't answered my questionDec 29 21:39
Tallkentrmanco, so, SHA1 :pDec 29 21:39
PetoKrausmoin?!Dec 29 21:40
trmancololDec 29 21:40
MinceRiirc even SHA-1 is vulnerable alreadyDec 29 21:40
*MinceR prefers SHA-512Dec 29 21:40
trmancologger_bot didn't get splitDec 29 21:40
schestowitztrmanco: I don't knowDec 29 21:40
schestowitzI think two machines fellDec 29 21:40
schestowitzlindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Dec 29 21:40
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. Our EU to US connectively dropped for a moment there generating a rather messy split. From what we can tell it seems to be resolved so sorry for the noise and thanks for using freenode!Dec 29 21:40
schestowitzand brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Dec 29 21:40
trmancoTallken, okDec 29 21:41
schestowitzSo the split was different in different placesDec 29 21:41
trmancoMinceR, LOL SHA-512Dec 29 21:41
MinceR?Dec 29 21:41
trmancohow about RSADec 29 21:41
MinceRRSA isn't a hash algorithmDec 29 21:41
trmancoI'm catching upDec 29 21:42
trmancocrap, better do some researchDec 29 21:42
MinceRi'm not sure RSA would be useful in building a hash algorithmDec 29 21:42
MinceRyou can build one from a symmetric cipher thoughDec 29 21:42
MinceR(DES is used in that way by the old Unix password hashing method)Dec 29 21:42
trmancohmmDec 29 21:44
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectDec 29 21:44
trmancoMinceR, SHA-512 = SHA-2? right?Dec 29 21:45
MinceRit seems SHA-512 is part of the SHA-2 familyDec 29 21:47
trmancoyes its a variantDec 29 21:47
schestowitz"Due to the deteriorating economic conditions caused by the global financial crisis all around us, the decision was made in early October to cancel the 2008 general meeting, scheduled to take place a few weeks later, and to replace it with some alternative virtual meeting that would require no travel." http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2008/1...Dec 29 21:59
schestowitzTurns out there's a Wiki page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glo...Dec 29 21:59
schestowitz"Mom Kelli Roman got an unexpected Christmas Eve surprise: Facebook yanked her privileges to use the social networking site not long after she received an e-mail warning for "misusing certain features on the site." Roman has been at the center of a growing controversy on Facebook that's been brewing since last summer (and that we discussed last fall) -- that some photos of breastfeeding are obscene." http://voices.washingtonpost.coDec 29 22:01
schestowitzm/parenting/2008/12/facebook_vs_breastf eeding_phot.html?hpid=news-col-blogDec 29 22:01
schestowitzhttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/parenting/...Dec 29 22:02
TallkenOLD :pDec 29 22:02
schestowitzReally? Oh well..Dec 29 22:02
schestowitz Next thing you know they'll label it pedophiliaDec 29 22:02
schestowitzBecause, you know, there is a baby there..Dec 29 22:02
schestowitzBlock the WHOLE domain (Facebook), just like Wikipedia (IWF)Dec 29 22:03
trmancoMicrosoft specs out 'pay as you go' PC scheme: http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar...Dec 29 22:03
schestowitzMiserable signsDec 29 22:03
schestowitzThey can't profit from WindowsDec 29 22:03
schestowitzThey want to give it away... on a lease... like renting a bad, insecure carDec 29 22:04
trmancomicrofoot won't fix the bugs because of its stupid pyramid schemeDec 29 22:04
schestowitz"On Parenting: Are Breastfeeding Pics 'Obscene'? Only to conservative white men who feel it necessary to control women."Dec 29 22:05
schestowitz"The photo you posted is not "obscene" by Facebook's own standards. It would be hard to post a picture of a child eating that also showed a nipple - by definition, unless the mom was showing off the other breast - which is unnecessary. Breastfeeding itself it never obscene."Dec 29 22:05
schestowitztrmanco: Yahoo pyramid?? WOTTT? Microsoft bought them already?Dec 29 22:05
trmanconoDec 29 22:06
trmanconot thatDec 29 22:06
trmancofor example, if they fix there registry where will all the registry fixing software go? and the companies behind themDec 29 22:06
trmanco:-PDec 29 22:06
schestowitzFox About To Get Paid For A Movie It Had Absolutely Nothing To Do With < http://techdirt.com/articles/2008122... >Dec 29 22:09
schestowitzhttp://princessleia.com/journal/?p=1405Dec 29 22:15
schestowitzPinkuxDec 29 22:15
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Dec 29 22:17
schestowitzShe links to an article about wealth in Linux, but it just about predates the massive FrausStreet crash: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/c...Dec 29 22:22
schestowitz:-| http://blog.andrewmin.com/2008/12/28...Dec 29 22:40
schestowitzNo mentioning of Wine, I thinkDec 29 22:40
*PetoKraus (n=pk@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovellDec 29 22:40
trmancoschestowitz, nopDec 29 22:42
trmancobut in overall, it is a good postDec 29 22:43
trmancoIMODec 29 22:43
neighborleewine is 'ok' but hardly a fix allDec 29 22:44
neighborleethough new wine is impressive .last time I used it wine took forever to load but man its real quick now..that or I just had a badly supported game :)Dec 29 22:44
trmancoWine is pretty fast on some softiesDec 29 22:45
schestowitzPeople who loves gaming often just buy consolesDec 29 22:45
schestowitzThe wii ain't expensiveDec 29 22:45
schestowitzAnd if people are used to paying for Windows games anyway, why not Wii games?Dec 29 22:46
neighborleethats quite true now..Dec 29 22:46
neighborleewiifit is also going to be a huge hit..Dec 29 22:46
neighborleepc sales I think will suffer as a resultDec 29 22:46
neighborleethough the  MOD crowd will always be loyal.Dec 29 22:46
neighborleenow there is wiispeakDec 29 22:47
neighborleeguitar hero is real popular :)Dec 29 22:47
MinceRi think we need wine for the transition periodDec 29 22:49
schestowitzMention Wii and see neighborlee going ballistic.Dec 29 22:50
MinceR:DDec 29 22:50
MinceRwii need an emulator!Dec 29 22:50
neighborleeLOLDec 29 22:50
trmancololDec 29 22:50
neighborleecant help itDec 29 22:51
schestowitzIt's a good think the substring "wii" is uncommonDec 29 22:51
trmancoWNAEDec 29 22:51
schestowitz*thingDec 29 22:51
neighborleewiitennis drew me in, grabbed me by my b*** and neer let goDec 29 22:51
schestowitzLike aaaaardvark.Dec 29 22:51
neighborleeand now that I have super mairo galaxy its aLL over :)lolDec 29 22:51
neighborleeinvite to WoW, bblDec 29 22:52
neighborleeo_0Dec 29 22:52
MinceRthat sponsoring idea is interesting, it might workDec 29 22:53
schestowitzOh LORDAY! Thank goodness for the Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!rtner Group...  http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresourc... Time to stop referencing people who sell opinions for moneyDec 29 23:04
schestowitzThese people don't /give/ opinions; they negotiate and sell them; even Joe Wilccox (former analyst) admitted thisDec 29 23:06

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