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| oiaohm | http://www.ohesso.com/essays/essay006.htm Cat agree to EULA some people are going nuts. | Feb 21 04:05 |
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| *schestowitz rreads | Feb 21 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Number 1 it don't legally hold because it was not a random event. | Feb 21 04:09 |
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| oiaohm | Ie you set it up for the cat to do it so you are aggreeing. | Feb 21 04:09 |
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| oiaohm | Now question what happens in case of keyboard malfunction or some thing else random should be asked. | Feb 21 04:10 |
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| schestowitz | It's cure (the cat thing) | Feb 21 04:13 |
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| schestowitz | My cat OKed my EULA and my dog ate my homework, your honour | Feb 21 04:13 |
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| oiaohm | My keyboard was malfunctioning at the time I installed that. | Feb 21 04:17 |
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| oiaohm | Might work. You would kind have to prove that it was not. | Feb 21 04:17 |
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| schestowitz | You? | Feb 21 04:19 |
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| oiaohm | Sorry I am too use to doing talks to software producers on legal loop holes. | Feb 21 04:20 |
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| oiaohm | that could render there licences null and void. | Feb 21 04:20 |
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| oiaohm | Some get upset when they get told don't bother looking for a loop hole in GPL. Without agreeing you cannot do anything. Because its the only thing that gives you the right to ship it. | Feb 21 04:21 |
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| schestowitz | Is that your cat? | Feb 21 04:25 |
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| oiaohm | Nop | Feb 21 04:25 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, I thought you'd aid somethiing else | Feb 21 04:26 |
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| oiaohm | Just something I found in my travels around the net. | Feb 21 04:26 |
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| oiaohm | Some day I should try to write the most evil EULA that could ever be created. | Feb 21 04:26 |
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| oiaohm | Just for fun. | Feb 21 04:27 |
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| oiaohm | Wonder if you can legally get away with a program where you have to pay twice the last ammount every month. | Feb 21 04:31 |
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| oiaohm | Starting at 1 dollar. | Feb 21 04:31 |
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| oiaohm | In 3 years you are stuffed for sure. | Feb 21 04:32 |
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| ZiggyFish | hello | Feb 21 07:25 |
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| schestowitz | This post must have hit a nerve. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/20/nov... | Feb 21 10:21 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yep its hitting a nerve everywhere. | Feb 21 10:34 |
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| schestowitz | "Dan"'s response regarding where he lives was funny. We have Novell employee commenting from the novell.com domain, but also from around that area :-D | Feb 21 10:38 |
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| oiaohm_ | The thing that will be drawing them out novell stories are starting to be replcated. | Feb 21 10:40 |
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| oiaohm_ | SUSE Crisis Watch is current comment off. | Feb 21 10:41 |
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| oiaohm_ | I guess you choose to do that schestowitz | Feb 21 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | YEs. | Feb 21 10:43 |
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| oiaohm_ | You might have to rename you blog if Novell goes belly up. | Feb 21 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | Not really | Feb 21 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | It's just a name.... | Feb 21 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Facebook Boots Off Almost 5600 Sex Offenders; Don't You Feel Safer Now? < http://techdirt.com/articles/200902... > | Feb 21 11:06 |
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| oiaohm_ | How many days before they are back. | Feb 21 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | They'll move to another place. | Feb 21 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | Same with drug dealers and prostitutes on Craigslist. You can stop them by just clogging up one among tens/hundreds of sites. | Feb 21 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft promoted his mafia extortion-like head. | Feb 21 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micros... http://www.pcworld.com/article/159960/microsoft_pr... "[H]e also has been a proponent of controversial cross-patent licensing agreements that Microsoft has struck with companies as a way to derive revenue from its extensive patent portfolio." | Feb 21 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | Good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62Q... | Feb 21 11:41 |
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| trmanco | Wow | Feb 21 11:58 |
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| trmanco | I'm using git right now with git-gui... it is very powerful | Feb 21 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | The project is named after Linus | Feb 21 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | Like Linux (says he) | Feb 21 11:59 |
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| oiaohm_ | Ok good video misses one key point most people these days cannot read the bible and understand it. | Feb 21 12:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Terms used in it have changed with time. | Feb 21 12:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Hell is a miss translation of the ancent word for garbage dump. Would not read that well if it was corrected. | Feb 21 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 21 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | Imistakenly linked to part 2 (out of 7) | Feb 21 12:02 |
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| oiaohm_ | Ok minorlly out burning garbage dump. | Feb 21 12:02 |
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| oiaohm_ | Not a place I would ever want to be. Lot of churches you still here the firm and brimstone bit. | Feb 21 12:03 |
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| oiaohm_ | There is no brimstone in hell. | Feb 21 12:03 |
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| trmanco | git push | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | Counting objects: 8, done. | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | Compressing objects: 100% (4/4), done. | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | Writing objects: 100% (6/6), 565 bytes, done. | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | Total 6 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0) | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | To git@github.com:trmanco/test.git | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | 3d47db7..ace3eb3 master -> master | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | hehehehe | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| trmanco | c00l | Feb 21 12:08 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Feb 21 13:06 |
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| oiaohm_ | http://www.quiri.com/QH/QH_ENG/qh... Watch the video it has no sound I think someone was playing too much janaga. | Feb 21 13:28 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne... "After two days of picketing and vociferous protests, the New York Post has apologised for printing a cartoon that was interpreted by some readers as comparing America’s first black President to a crazed and violent ape." | Feb 21 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | Here is an article that casts "server" as "cloud" (because it's more hype-worthy): http://news.cnet.com/8301-19413_3... | Feb 21 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | I've heard it from a reliable source that Phelps failed to 'sell' a patent deal to Red Hat (Horacio Gutierrez has just been promoted BTW), so it's possible that Microsoft is letting the Novell plot go down the can (not without getting the Moonlight/Mono infection inside GNU/Linux) while trying to coerce Red Hat customers somehow. | Feb 21 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Why is Asay sucking up to this patent bully? http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10168256-16.html | Feb 21 15:38 |
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| MinceR | because he's a corporate bitch | Feb 21 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | *whisper* *crickets* | Feb 21 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | He's like Chamberlain | Feb 21 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://onemansthoughts.wordpress.com/2008/09/ | Feb 21 15:41 |
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| MinceR | http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?... | Feb 21 15:48 |
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| MinceR | lulz | Feb 21 15:48 |
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| schestowitz | Everything he submits to Slashdot (Matt Asay) his buddy Rob Malda accepts blindly. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9791710-7.html | Feb 21 16:01 |
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| MinceR | the joke is on him now | Feb 21 16:02 |
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| MinceR | his beloved crApple is so closed it makes Monkey Boy cry | Feb 21 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft has just pulled its corruption in Catalonia | Feb 21 16:07 |
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| *schestowitz does a post about it | Feb 21 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Apple hardly shoots down migrations to Linux | Feb 21 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | We need to focus on Bigger Criminals first | Feb 21 16:08 |
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| MinceR | i'm not sure we can let them grow to become the second microsoft after the first one dies. | Feb 21 16:09 |
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| MinceR | especially considering that they're worse in some ways | Feb 21 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/2... ? | Feb 21 16:14 |
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| MinceR | not yet | Feb 21 16:15 |
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| trmanco | the troll got owned -> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a... | Feb 21 16:16 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, you are getting attacked again | Feb 21 16:19 |
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| trmanco | you must be doing something right, have you noticed? | Feb 21 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?... If any of these can be turned to full texts (not just snippets), then we can post away. | Feb 21 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | I didn't see. Let's check. | Feb 21 16:20 |
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| trmanco | 3 spam posts with 2 minute interval on the first two | Feb 21 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | Gary's/Microsoft's having a tantrum. | Feb 21 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is a dying company. Windows margins approach 9. | Feb 21 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | *0 (not 9) | Feb 21 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: let me show you something | Feb 21 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | MS does in Catalonia what it did in Protugal. | Feb 21 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | See if you spot typos.. | Feb 21 16:24 |
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| trmanco | where? | Feb 21 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/... | Feb 21 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | This mirrors EXACTLY what they did in Portugal. Maybe I suggest that you mail this to friends of yours so that they learn what Microsoft does to them and why? | Feb 21 16:26 |
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| trmanco | I'll read it | Feb 21 16:29 |
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| trmanco | My email friends don't care | Feb 21 16:29 |
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| trmanco | I don't have these kind of friends... maybe my followers at Identi.ca will be interested | Feb 21 16:29 |
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| trmanco | cool, just read it | Feb 21 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | We have at least one reader that I know of from Catalonia. | Feb 21 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | Time for some more Catalonian anarchy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=e... | Feb 21 16:32 |
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| trmanco | http://identi.ca/notice/2415346 | Feb 21 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | Cool. thanls. is is.gd for tracking? | Feb 21 16:34 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, no, it is a url shortening service | Feb 21 16:38 |
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| trmanco | Gwibber does this automatically | Feb 21 16:38 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: what if the service goes down 5 years from now? | Feb 21 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | All your references become utterly bunk. | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| trmanco | link lost | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | No way to even put it into Web Archive | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | I'd advised against putting just the short one, but I understand why people use it nonetheless | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| trmanco | haven't thought if this | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | I use my postings from years ago to identify things I used to know. | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| trmanco | of* | Feb 21 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Feb 21 17:15 |
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| balzac | Hewlitt Packard - I can't say enough bad things about their computers | Feb 21 18:14 |
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| balzac | crap hardware, crap software | Feb 21 18:14 |
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| balzac | dumb little consumer-grade buttons for email, "Club HP" getting in the way of function keys. | Feb 21 18:15 |
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| balzac | It's like their computer was designed by the marketing department who don't know how to use computers. | Feb 21 18:15 |
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| balzac | Carli fiorini was bad for HP. | Feb 21 18:15 |
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| balzac | And don't get me started about all their craptastic software bundled with the world's lamest operating system, Windows. | Feb 21 18:16 |
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| balzac | What happened to that venerable technology company? It's unrecognizable. | Feb 21 18:17 |
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| balzac | Well, the NYSE deal is good news for HP | Feb 21 18:18 |
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| balzac | It's not all bad | Feb 21 18:18 |
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| mib_eudnsk | Is there a good executive summary, with references, of | Feb 21 18:39 |
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| mib_eudnsk | the harrassment that MS persecutes against public and | Feb 21 18:39 |
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| mib_eudnsk | private figures? | Feb 21 18:39 |
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| balzac | mib_eudnsk: I have not compiled such a thing | Feb 21 18:40 |
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| balzac | I have witnessed the harassment of Novell-sympathetic astro-turfers ganging up against schestowitz | Feb 21 18:40 |
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| mib_eudnsk | I've read about and even seen many myself, | Feb 21 18:42 |
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| balzac | mib_eudnsk: if you want an executive summary, you may be the one whose calling it is to write it. | Feb 21 18:42 |
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| mib_eudnsk | but I'm really looking for a ready-to-use summary | Feb 21 18:42 |
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| balzac | I don't write executive summaries because I don't give a rat's ass about convincing any executives. | Feb 21 18:43 |
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| mib_eudnsk | normally I don't either | Feb 21 18:43 |
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| balzac | I'm building my own company to compete as well as I can. | Feb 21 18:44 |
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| mib_eudnsk | i'm consulting for three groups that seem to have | Feb 21 18:46 |
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| mib_eudnsk | started getting the 'treatment' | Feb 21 18:46 |
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| mib_eudnsk | some of the execs have gone bad | Feb 21 18:46 |
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| mib_eudnsk | but the real trouble is from a handful of moles | Feb 21 18:46 |
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| mib_eudnsk | at each site | Feb 21 18:46 |
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| balzac | interesting | Feb 21 18:52 |
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| balzac | Enterpise companies getting the nipple-clamps from Microsoft? | Feb 21 18:52 |
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| balzac | The old high-heel on the scrotum from Steve Ballmer? | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| balzac | jk | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| mib_eudnsk | not quite that direct | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| balzac | I'm guessing these companies have a heterogenous software environment | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| mib_eudnsk | but a number of gold partners or former gold partners | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| mib_eudnsk | doing their mischief | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| balzac | what operating systems in what proportions? | Feb 21 18:53 |
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| balzac | It's a tricky situation to deal with | Feb 21 18:54 |
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| balzac | Last time I was in such a situation, my language was not diplomatic enough and my strategy was not Machiavelian. | Feb 21 18:55 |
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| balzac | I isolated myself from using strong language against the proprietary unix from Sun. | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| balzac | I was pushing for Redhat instead. | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| mib_eudnsk | i've run into it before, they ask for reports, and one wastes time | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| mib_eudnsk | making the reports and/or investigations | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| mib_eudnsk | and not working on the deployments | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| balzac | My problem was that I was having to work too hard to stay cool-headed. | Feb 21 18:56 |
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| balzac | getting burdened with tedious work is not helpful | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| mib_eudnsk | Regarding cool-headed, the gold partners have | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| mib_eudnsk | no qualms about lying while smiling | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| balzac | Next time I'll be in better position | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| mib_eudnsk | execs only see the smile | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| balzac | well, they've got the financial backing, so it's easier to stay cool | Feb 21 18:57 |
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| balzac | here's my website for my company (not yet incorporated) | Feb 21 18:58 |
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| balzac | http://www.disruptech.com | Feb 21 18:58 |
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| balzac | My plan is to offer what I call "friendly or internal software license audits" | Feb 21 18:59 |
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| balzac | to see how many proprietary software licenses can be dropped, not renewed, replaced with free software | Feb 21 18:59 |
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| balzac | and get a commission on savings | Feb 21 18:59 |
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| balzac | I'll be an "anti-salesman" | Feb 21 18:59 |
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| mib_eudnsk | audit only works with cooperation, gold partners seem to rather die | Feb 21 18:59 |
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| balzac | "don't buy this, don't buy that, slash your IT budget spending on software licenses. | Feb 21 19:00 |
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| mib_eudnsk | than see any non-MS products whether closed or open source | Feb 21 19:00 |
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| mib_eudnsk | licenses are only a small part of the savings, | Feb 21 19:00 |
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| mib_eudnsk | operational costs for FOSS are usually only a small fraction of MSFT | Feb 21 19:00 |
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| balzac | well, the economy is hurting companies - I need to find a company desparate to save money. | Feb 21 19:00 |
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| mib_eudnsk | many, however, will not be making tech decisions based on economics | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| mib_eudnsk | but rather on ideology | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| balzac | well, then they can go out of business | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| mib_eudnsk | I've seen a few European banks lose *lots* of money ... | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| mib_eudnsk | yeah, many will go out of business, but even on the way out | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| balzac | lots of companies have gone out of business already | Feb 21 19:01 |
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| mib_eudnsk | it will be denial from execs regarding the ineffectiveness MSFT products bring | Feb 21 19:02 |
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| balzac | let these companies cling to M$ Vista as they let out their death rattle | Feb 21 19:02 |
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| balzac | I'll be using Open Office instead | Feb 21 19:02 |
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| balzac | Ubuntu and Redhat | Feb 21 19:03 |
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| mib_eudnsk | yeah, but its not nice to see people lose their because the company closed | Feb 21 19:04 |
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| balzac | what's your strategy to deal with these stubborn people? | Feb 21 19:04 |
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| mib_eudnsk | haven't decided yet | Feb 21 19:04 |
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| balzac | well, if it opens up market space for my company to operate within, I'm not going to worry about people who fetishize archaic software licenses. | Feb 21 19:05 |
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| balzac | But yeah, it is not nice to see people losing their jobs | Feb 21 19:07 |
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| balzac | I have a slogan - keep your people, change your software | Feb 21 19:07 |
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| balzac | I make the case that software vendors should not be so influential within a given company | Feb 21 19:08 |
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| balzac | and that people ought not to be hired or fired on the basis of a given product | Feb 21 19:08 |
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| balzac | if you're a systems administrator, hopefully you have some transferable skills and can be re-trained for a new OS | Feb 21 19:09 |
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| balzac | I'm hoping to disarm resistance within a client company by not being seen as a threat to people's jobs. | Feb 21 19:10 |
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| balzac | I want to be the grim reaper of proprietary software licenses, not people's jobs. | Feb 21 19:10 |
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| balzac | I should put that on my website | Feb 21 19:11 |
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| trmanco | LOL, Microsoft has its own version control system (didn't know) | Feb 21 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | I missed a good talk | Feb 21 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | moles list | Feb 21 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | how typical... and smears | Feb 21 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | They got bbc-ed | Feb 21 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: making these is not too much work | Feb 21 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | case of point: git tovalds | Feb 21 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | *rvalds | Feb 21 19:38 |
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| trmanco | http://www-cs-students.stan... | Feb 21 19:40 |
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| trmanco | I'm reading this right now | Feb 21 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | hm. | Feb 21 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | ms shareholders just mailed me... | Feb 21 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | let me read... it's long :-) | Feb 21 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | I'll paste it here anonymised | Feb 21 19:44 |
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| schestowitz | Turns out Microsoft is in damage control too | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | They realise that people are up to what they do....... | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | ============= | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "This email is in regards to a post that was discovered at Boycott Novell. It makes reference to a shareholder activist campaign and its progress." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "Activists use various strategies to effect change. Ironfire Capital created a "Plan B" for Yahoo and through the Internet using blogs, wiki's and youtube effected change. In mid-December 2008 we launched a similar strategy. The intention was to use a blog to rally support." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "The blog component was and is simply a tool. After the campaign it will be abandoned. Therefore, focusing on changing a URL spelling was trivial." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "The campaign has however attracted a report at Microsoft SubNet located at both http://www.networworld.com/community/node/37991 and also http://www.networkworld.com/community... " | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "It has also attracted attention from a Microsoft employee who can be located at http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Cof... " | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "We are also in discussions with hedge funds and other large shareholders concerning the campaign." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "The next post for Microsoft SubNet will include a article from a large shareholder. The reports are also being forwared to other media companies." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | "Thought that you should be aware of the campaign and its real progress." | Feb 21 19:45 |
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| trmanco | lkml.org is down? | Feb 21 19:48 |
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| schestowitz | download.opensuse.org was too | Feb 21 19:48 |
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| schestowitz | brb (shower | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| trmanco | news campain? | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| trmanco | new/* | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | where? | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| trmanco | the email | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | yes | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | they pressure | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | like BN | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | They pressure the management | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| trmanco | good | Feb 21 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | they compare ballmer to madoff | Feb 21 19:50 |
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| schestowitz | California ban on violent video games killed on appeal < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/21/cali... > | Feb 21 20:06 |
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| schestowitz | http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/jan... | Feb 21 20:09 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* http://tirania.org/blog/arch... "This API needs to be moved into CodePlex or be available as an unsupported "PowerOverEngineeredPack.dll"." So has Novell moved its hosting to Microsoft yet? | Feb 21 20:15 |
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| balzac | interesting email from ms shareholders | Feb 21 20:48 |
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| balzac | good shiyat | Feb 21 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | They are angry | Feb 21 20:50 |
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| schestowitz | They lost a fortune | Feb 21 20:50 |
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| schestowitz | You remember jose, right/ | Feb 21 20:50 |
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| schestowitz | ? | Feb 21 20:50 |
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| balzac | yeah | Feb 21 20:50 |
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| balzac | I'm listening to the barber of seville | Feb 21 20:51 |
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| balzac | good music to ponder big changes in the software market | Feb 21 20:51 |
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| *schestowitz searches for a log | Feb 21 20:52 |
| schestowitz | I think I found it: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/31/irc-l... | Feb 21 20:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's about Microsoft's tissue paper (money) campaign | Feb 21 20:54 |
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| balzac | lemme check it out | Feb 21 20:56 |
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| balzac | they all cook their books to a greater or lesser degree | Feb 21 20:58 |
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| balzac | that's why I've been challenging those who are so wound up about Madoff | Feb 21 20:59 |
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| balzac | his biggest crime was not getting bailed out | Feb 21 20:59 |
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| balzac | It gives me hope for M$ to have a catastrophic collapse | Feb 21 20:59 |
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| balzac | but they have something real - a huge install base | Feb 21 20:59 |
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| balzac | I don't think they can disappear quite as quickly as Bear Stearns, because M$ has some real substance, cooked-books or not. | Feb 21 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: they too say, "everyone's doin' it" | Feb 21 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know if it's a US-only problem (see Satyam for example), but the whole world of commerce is a huge inflated lies that relies on peer keeping their lies too | Feb 21 21:02 |
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| balzac | there's hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of abstract, inter-dependent currencies | Feb 21 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | Madoff busted -> richest lady reportedly committing suicide -> banks collapse -> another massive fraudsters exposed -> business want to loot the public (stimulus)... | Feb 21 21:03 |
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| balzac | but the GPD for the whole world is estimated at 60 trillion | Feb 21 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | WHat about non-currency-based costs? | Feb 21 21:04 |
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| balzac | I don't mean currencies literally | Feb 21 21:04 |
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| balzac | I'm not a finance guy, so I don't know the right jargon | Feb 21 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | What about environmental capacity, sources of food, amount of land (diminishing), drinkable waters.. | Feb 21 21:04 |
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| balzac | I mean securities, stocks, hedge fund shares | Feb 21 21:04 |
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| balzac | most of its value is only loosely based on reality - it's like a game of musical chairs | Feb 21 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | Over-inflation of assets is now a fact | Feb 21 21:05 |
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| balzac | when it's time for everyone to take a seat, most of the people playing the game have no chair | Feb 21 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | The question is, how much? Who gave the debt? | Feb 21 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | What about 'vacuums' like Madoff's creation? | Feb 21 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: I like the chair analogy (musical chairs) | Feb 21 21:06 |
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| balzac | Roy, one of Marx's better insights in economic theory was about looking deeper than the shell-game of capitalism and seeing the material basis for the economy - workers and resources | Feb 21 21:06 |
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| balzac | you mentioned environmental capacity which is of primary importance | Feb 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Will be. | Feb 21 21:07 |
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| balzac | the environment is ultimately the material basis for the economy, not even workers with machines and other non-organic resources | Feb 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | But for reasons people miss | Feb 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Like globalisation, people don't understand what the issue is. | Feb 21 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | In centralisation, it can mean return to feudalism. | Feb 21 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | In the case of environment, it can lead to terrorism very fast (thirst, refugees, natural disasters) | Feb 21 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: yes, the environment is like part of the financial 'food chain; | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| balzac | yeah, things could start to look like that game with the scientist with the crow-ar | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | The farmer assumes he 'owns' the land | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| balzac | half life | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Another person owns the farmer | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Farmer feed wal-mart | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Wal-mart owned by family... and so on and so forth | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| balzac | Monsanto is the Microsoft of genetic engineering | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| balzac | they make bad food | Feb 21 21:09 |
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| balzac | I had one of they're fleshy tomatoes in my salad yesterday | Feb 21 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | When the chain can't supply from the bottom, it all collapses. The fish in the sea do run out ("there are NOT plenty of fish in the sea") | Feb 21 21:10 |
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| balzac | it has genes from grass-hoppers for connective tissue as well as anti-freeze genes from north sea fish | Feb 21 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | Gordon? | Feb 21 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | HL | Feb 21 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | They already 'engineer' chicken rather than growing it | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Same with GM foods | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see how they grow chickens now? | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| balzac | no | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Like these are machines.. | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Hold onn.. | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| balzac | inside a very small cage, I suppose | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008... | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| balzac | this guy I know refers to chickens as "cackle-fruit" | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: no, worse.. | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | It's a one-hour show, but a good one.. | Feb 21 21:11 |
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| balzac | yeah, that is sick, sick, sick | Feb 21 21:12 |
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| balzac | I've seen clips of this, where their little beaks are clipped off by a cauterizing snipper | Feb 21 21:13 |
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| balzac | so they can't damage each other | Feb 21 21:13 |
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| balzac | I shouldn't eat it, but what should I eat instead? | Feb 21 21:13 |
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| balzac | eventually, there'll be only "soylent green" if the Repugnicans have their way. | Feb 21 21:14 |
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| balzac | and it will be political dissidents who will be scooped up by the riot control scoops and fed into the grinder. | Feb 21 21:14 |
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| balzac | to feed the dim-witted cannibals who have no idea at first that they're eating their fellow humans | Feb 21 21:15 |
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| balzac | and then it becomes common knowledge, but hunger prevails over shock and revulsion, and it is accepted like the cannibalism which has occurred in isolated places where food is lacking. | Feb 21 21:16 |
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| balzac | then when you reach retirement age (35), you're considered obsolete and your protein is recycled | Feb 21 21:17 |
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| balzac | but the politicians would still have a long life-span | Feb 21 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | Here's the issue | Feb 21 21:17 |
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| balzac | they would harvest the organs of children to extend their lives | Feb 21 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | The more efficiently food is made, the more baby boomers you get | Feb 21 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | Same in Africa. | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | Improve health, increase birth rate | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe it's human's nature. | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | The dinosaurs too used to roam the Earth | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| balzac | Somebody needs to file another class-action lawsuit against the catholic church | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| balzac | a friend and I were just talking about the environment yesterday | Feb 21 21:18 |
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| balzac | the Police song "Walking in Your Foot Steps" came up | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | Lawsuit, eh? | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| balzac | "hey mighty brontosaurus, don't you have a lesson for us?" | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | These hardly solve issues. | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | They feed lawyers. | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| balzac | well, there have already been class-action lawsuits against various diocese for all the buggary of children | Feb 21 21:19 |
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| balzac | lots of them | Feb 21 21:20 |
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| balzac | lawyers need to eat too, ya know | Feb 21 21:20 |
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| balzac | so anyway, a class-action lawsuit against the catholic church and various other churches for undermining crucial knowledge and access to birth control and disease prevention | Feb 21 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | People have mouths | Feb 21 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | They can speak for themselves | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| balzac | I agree | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: I'd rather not go face-to-face with religions.l | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | I can face corrupt officials | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| balzac | it's important that people still excerise the right of self-representation in court | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | Not people who do things on God_X's behalf | Feb 21 21:21 |
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| balzac | well, thankfully, there are people like Sam Harris | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | See what ESR got in his blog for example | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | author of "The End of Faith" | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | Or Scientology Cult... | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | I was meaning to mention about ESRs blog-craziness | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | I posted a video here this morning | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | From the author of "God is Not Great" | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | he's linked to the "anti-idiotarian rottweiler" who is quite racist | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | Part 1 starts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvjdJrD... | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | Christopher Hitchens | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | great title | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | hehe | Feb 21 21:22 |
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| balzac | I really like his contrarian streak, though he can be a serious moron sometimes | Feb 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | It's the best when it comes from people who grew up in religious backgrounds | Feb 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Like [H]omer | Feb 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Or Hitchens | Feb 21 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Chomsky.. sorta. | Feb 21 21:23 |
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| balzac | Well, people need to "call a spade a spade" | Feb 21 21:24 |
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| balzac | Religious leaders ought to be directly challenged on the legitimacy of their roles within their religion | Feb 21 21:24 |
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| balzac | so a man is a preacher - does he think he knows "god" more than a layman? | Feb 21 21:25 |
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| balzac | or a bishop, pope, rabbi, guru | Feb 21 21:25 |
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| balzac | even the dalai lama | Feb 21 21:25 |
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| balzac | but I'd want to challenge Chinese imperialism in Tibet before I criticize the Dalai Lama | Feb 21 21:26 |
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| balzac | but how does the Dalai Lama go and meet with George Bush (who was occupying Iraq) to lobby him for support against the Chinese occupation of Tibet? | Feb 21 21:26 |
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| balzac | Wouldn't it be ironic if Moqtada al Sadr went to China and lobbied Hu Jintao for support against Bush's occupation of Iraq? | Feb 21 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | That would be risky | Feb 21 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | He would get 'liberated' | Feb 21 21:28 |
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| balzac | yeah, he wouldn't do that | Feb 21 21:28 |
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| balzac | but maybe they can make an oil deal with china | Feb 21 21:29 |
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| balzac | get the USA off our backs and we'll cut you a deal on oil | Feb 21 21:29 |
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| balzac | I'm just saying, the Dalai Lama really invited criticism and doubts about 'his holiness' when he met with Bush | Feb 21 21:30 |
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| balzac | Other Buddhists might have punched Bush in the nose instead of holding his hand | Feb 21 21:30 |
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| balzac | that might have been the "right action" for a "bodhisattva" | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | CHina deserves energy too | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| balzac | sure | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | But that would ruin the American empire | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| balzac | Chinese workers deserve income | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | That would enable them to do too much for too little($$) | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| balzac | well, thinks can't change too quickly, or instability is the result | Feb 21 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | Population size must be policed | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Otherwise there will be deaths | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| balzac | well, perhaps not "policed" | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Choice: mass genocide or birth control | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Pick one. | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| balzac | but incentives against copy-cats of the "octo-mom" | Feb 21 21:32 |
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| balzac | voluntary birth control, but strong peer pressure | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | The human population would be fine had there been only about 60 million of us | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| balzac | what it requires is that people are informed and equiped | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | How many elephants are there? | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Like less than a million, right? | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | The Earth if densely populated not by people who ride horsies | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| balzac | I'd like more than 60,000,000. that's the population of England | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | They drive massive (1-tonne) cars | Feb 21 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: spread through | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| balzac | I have to grab my laundry | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | That would also enable the rest of nature (nature!=human civilisation) to merely exist | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | In some places, even bugs are food. | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| balzac | brb | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| balzac | even mud | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | :-o | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| balzac | haiti, according to an article i read yesterday | Feb 21 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | Ewww... | Feb 21 21:35 |
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| balzac | mud cookies | Feb 21 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | Dude, I was just about to have dinner | Feb 21 21:37 |
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| balzac | bon appetie | Feb 21 21:42 |
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| balzac | appetite | Feb 21 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | No, oppsite rather. I'm trying to get this picture of rainy day and kids picking up 'dinner' off the ground for mom to cook. | Feb 21 21:42 |
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| balzac | just a little something to keep the belly from rumbling | Feb 21 21:43 |
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| balzac | you might get some nutrients from soil bacteria and fungi as well | Feb 21 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | Due! | Feb 21 21:43 |
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| balzac | there's a little biomass in ther | Feb 21 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | *DuDe! | Feb 21 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | Take about it later. I'm running out of appetite here. | Feb 21 21:44 |
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| balzac | alright... | Feb 21 21:44 |
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| balzac | sorry | Feb 21 21:44 |
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| balzac | at least i'm not carrying on about soylent green | Feb 21 21:44 |
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| balzac | Roy, have a good weekend | Feb 21 21:45 |
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| balzac | Time to start prowling the neighborhood | Feb 21 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. | Feb 21 21:48 |
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| *Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-71-255-101-57.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 21 22:11 |
| Balrog | hello everyone | Feb 21 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, wb | Feb 21 22:26 |
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| Balrog | heard of the 'mini-microsoft' blog? I'm taking a look at it (note that I'm no friend of MS) | Feb 21 22:30 |
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| Balrog | the comments are quite interesting ... lol | Feb 21 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 21 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Gold mine sometimes | Feb 21 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | If you have the patience | Feb 21 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Though it's hard to verify authenticity | Feb 21 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | They speak of scandals there too | Feb 21 22:32 |
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| Balrog | I see. | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Like MD of Microsoft India having an affair with one of his employees | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | And one taking a vacation he wasn't supposed to.... | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| Balrog | heh. But is it confirm-able? | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | People who silently jump ship like two MS VPs | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: hardly, if you cite the source | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | It's hard to use "anonymous" comments as proof | Feb 21 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | You can 'plant' those | Feb 21 22:34 |
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| Balrog | that's what I thought. | Feb 21 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | But they can serve as a clue to start separate investigation | Feb 21 22:34 |
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| Balrog | true. | Feb 21 22:34 |
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| *ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 21 22:35 |
| Balrog | interesting. Even though iWork has no ODF support, Apple's TextEdit does | Feb 21 22:37 |
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| Balrog | (to open files) | Feb 21 22:37 |
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| Balrog | many people still use doc | Feb 21 22:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | to many | Feb 21 22:39 |
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| Balrog | yeah | Feb 21 22:39 |
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| Balrog | at least doc is compatible, unlike docx | Feb 21 22:39 |
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| ZiggyFish | true | Feb 21 22:40 |
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| Balrog | why do they even have to change the format? why not release the doc spec? | Feb 21 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Apple is not serious about it | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Apple is not a threat to Microsoft; not much anyway | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft uses Apple (and vice versa) | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| ZiggyFish | as with anything microsoft, they _HAVE TO_ compete, so they created docx to compete with ODF | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| Balrog | probably not | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| Balrog | they only care that stuff works for people that use it | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Their scare is to do with things like SaaS and free software that builds SaaS | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| Balrog | true. | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Oracle would probably want to be a driver of SaaS with Linux | Feb 21 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | But MySQL is pretty popular there. | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Among other things.. | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| Balrog | I see. | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| MinceR | i wouldn't call that "competing" | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: got a new HTC dream mobile phone yesterday, (absolutely amazing) | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| Balrog | By the way, iWork can't export OOXML | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| Balrog | it can only import it | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| MinceR | it's more of trying to make everyone else in the field of IT unable to conduct business | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | ZiggyFish: I saw G1. | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| ZiggyFish | MinceR: agreed | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 21 22:42 |
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| Balrog | ZiggyFish: G1? | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | Is this another Android that's just reached Aussie? I think I read about it last month. | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| Balrog | ahh ... dream is android | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| Balrog | yes that's the one | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| ZiggyFish | Balrog: it's australias version of G1 | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.t-mobileg1.com/ | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| Balrog | yeah | Feb 21 22:43 |
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| Balrog | it's hard to get root on them though | Feb 21 22:44 |
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| Balrog | so you have the tivo-ization problem | Feb 21 22:44 |
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| Balrog | (doesn't the GPL3 prevent that though?) | Feb 21 22:44 |
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| ZiggyFish | Balrog: the android platform is not under GPL (it's under Apache) | Feb 21 22:45 |
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| Balrog | ah. But what about the kernel? | Feb 21 22:45 |
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| PetoKraus | http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009... | Feb 21 22:45 |
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| PetoKraus | this is worth linking | Feb 21 22:45 |
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| ZiggyFish | Balrog: not sure | Feb 21 22:46 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 21 22:46 |
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| ZiggyFish | but it does run the 2.6.25 kernel (as it says it does in Setting->About phone->Kernel Version | Feb 21 22:48 |
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| Balrog | that's GPLv2 | Feb 21 22:48 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: do you have a reference for "iPhone engineers wanted to pick Linux for the iPhone" because I want to read that | Feb 21 22:49 |
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| Balrog | I don't know if porting Cocoa to Linux would have been simple or easy | Feb 21 22:50 |
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| ZiggyFish | they have ported nes games to the android | Feb 21 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, I can find it | Feb 21 22:50 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 21 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | I think I can find it again. 2 articles | Feb 21 22:51 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 21 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | One in Wired, IIRC (the original) | Feb 21 22:51 |
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| Balrog | I see. | Feb 21 22:51 |
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| Balrog | having two separate codebases isn't always great | Feb 21 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | Found one: http://junauza.blogspot.com/2008/01/lin... | Feb 21 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | "Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux" | Feb 21 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | "But, Linux on iPhone was denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize someone else’s software" | Feb 21 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | Apple doesn't understand sharing | Feb 21 22:53 |
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| Balrog | I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I mean, I'd look at all possible options if I was creating a new platform. | Feb 21 22:53 |
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| schestowitz | In Apple's terms, sharing="piracy", so they mulled DRM | Feb 21 22:53 |
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| Balrog | heh. Which DRM? | Feb 21 22:53 |
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| Balrog | iWork 09 Retail stopped using serial numbers, by the way | Feb 21 22:54 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: did notice the HTC does have an option for DRM content | Feb 21 22:55 |
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| Balrog | (doing anything that would circumvent ITMS music or video DRM would get the studios mad. The elimination of music DRM was a very controlled process so far) | Feb 21 22:55 |
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| Balrog | and software writers hate piracy (illegal copying and using kind) | Feb 21 22:55 |
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| Balrog | many are complaining the the app drm is too WEAK | Feb 21 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: thanks, got it. | Feb 21 22:57 |
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| Balrog | (I watched a discussion on the iPhone-dev mailing list about the issue a while ago.) | Feb 21 22:57 |
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| Balrog | Hopefully DRM will slowly die out | Feb 21 23:00 |
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| Balrog | (at least with media) | Feb 21 23:00 |
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| schestowitz | Media is changing | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Software too | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Creative Commons on one side | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | GPL on another | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | So DRM is rendered unnecessary | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Ito had some off words to say on DRM... | Feb 21 23:09 |
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| Balrog | yeah. Though there will still be a market for closed-source software that you pay for | Feb 21 23:10 |
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| MinceR | http://developers.slashdot.org/article... | Feb 21 23:13 |
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| MinceR | et tu, Sun? | Feb 21 23:13 |
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| Balrog | I saw that | Feb 21 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Apple and Sun share tactics.. | Feb 21 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | They learn from Microsoft. | Feb 21 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Java doesn't strike me as evil of Silver Lie though | Feb 21 23:15 |
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| Balrog | it's GPL | Feb 21 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 21 23:15 |
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| MinceR | it isn't that bad but it's creepy. | Feb 21 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | A lot of people already have it installed anyway and it's small | Feb 21 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Campare that to apple shove Safari up people's orifices. | Feb 21 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | *shoving | Feb 21 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | "...remember the days when men were men and actually controlled their computers..." | Feb 21 23:17 |
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| MinceR | uninstall is blocked though | Feb 21 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Does that affect all platforms? | Feb 21 23:36 |
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| MinceR | dunno | Feb 21 23:37 |
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| Balrog | or MS shoving Sliverlight | Feb 21 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | Shining it with luv.. | Feb 21 23:44 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 21 23:44 |
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| Balrog | I thought that flash was enough | Feb 21 23:44 |
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| Balrog | now this | Feb 21 23:44 |
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| benJIman | Flash is not free software. Both java and moonlight are. | Feb 21 23:45 |
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| Balrog | that's true. But flash has been around for much longer then silverlight / moonlight | Feb 21 23:45 |
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| Balrog | I don't like it, but I can live with it | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| Balrog | for now | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | Who was concerned about Flash? | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | FF 3.1 has Ogg built in | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| benJIman | And adobe are more aggressive in protecting flash from third party implementations than microsoft. | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | So it's important to ram Ogg through | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| Balrog | Ogg is good...h.264 is currently the 'standard' | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: you like Microsoft, we get it | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| Balrog | in an mpeg-4 container | Feb 21 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | Guess who is also better at threatening Linux with patents. | Feb 21 23:47 |
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| Balrog | Ogg within MKV would be nice, but currently there's lack of support for it (by those who create the content) | Feb 21 23:47 |
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| benJIman | Not really. Some microsoft technology is impressive, and other bits suck. Microsoft Research produces some pretty interesting stuff. | Feb 21 23:47 |
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| Balrog | and converters .... few support MKV | Feb 21 23:47 |
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| Balrog | yeah, vaporware, for the most part | Feb 21 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | Or failures like "Surface" | Feb 21 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | Ripoff+commercial fail | Feb 21 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Research is a pet dept. for the INNOVA~1 lie | Feb 21 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | "we spend #@!@#$ dollar per year blah blah" | Feb 21 23:51 |
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| Balrog | yeah | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | "We at Microsoft are innovative because we have something called MS Research" | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | Other companies have the same BS | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| Balrog | recently investors complained that research wastes too much $ | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | I actually needed to submit papers to conferences through MS lackeys | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | They occupy all sorts of places where they shouldn't be | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| Balrog | yeah :( | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | Academia shouldn't have place for that, esp. when the company is rules a criminal one (Jackson et al) | Feb 21 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | *ruled | Feb 21 23:53 |
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| Balrog | yeah. D: | Feb 21 23:53 |
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| MinceR | flash is trash. moonlight isn't free. | Feb 21 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | If we were to tolerate societies where working for criminals is acceptable "because you don't do crimes yourself", then war worlds and great depression can easily recur. The "only following orders"/"paying the bills" mem | Feb 21 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | *meme | Feb 21 23:54 |
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| *schestowitz only ever uses Flash to stream silly pixels and audio. Could use Ogg for that. | Feb 21 23:55 |
| Balrog | Flash sucks, but it's right now everywhere (or in most places) | Feb 21 23:55 |
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| Balrog | but why make Sliverlight, which is a look-alike to flash? | Feb 21 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | It's video that got it 'popular' (around 2004). Hey, if I needed bouncing letter and flying rectangles, I'd go to the circus. | Feb 21 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: why make Silver Lie?! Because Microsoft must leverage control. See the memos from them... they must control all standards. | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| Balrog | yes. | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | They would control hypertext protocols too if they had woken up to the Web earlier than 1995ish | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| Balrog | When I first saw it, I thought "why another plugin that does the same thing that an already-existing one?" | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | They also mimic ODF now | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | They'll try to use the criminals from ECMA to ram it down ISO | Feb 21 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | it's eerily quiet on that front and I don't like it | Feb 21 23:58 |
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| schestowitz | They are giving wiggling room to bribe people, appoint cronies, etc. while all are asleep at the wheel | Feb 21 23:58 |
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