Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 21st, 2009 - Part 2


Enter the IRC channel now

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oiaohm  Cat agree to EULA some people are going nuts.Feb 21 04:05
*schestowitz rreadsFeb 21 04:08
oiaohmNumber 1 it don't legally hold because it was not a random event.Feb 21 04:09
oiaohmIe you set it up for the cat to do it so you are aggreeing.Feb 21 04:09
oiaohmNow question what happens in case of keyboard malfunction or some thing else random should be asked.Feb 21 04:10
schestowitzIt's cure (the cat thing)Feb 21 04:13
schestowitzMy cat OKed my EULA and my dog ate my homework, your honourFeb 21 04:13
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oiaohmMy keyboard was malfunctioning at the time I installed that.Feb 21 04:17
oiaohmMight work.  You would kind have to prove that it was not.Feb 21 04:17
schestowitzYou?Feb 21 04:19
oiaohmSorry I am too use to doing talks to software producers on legal loop holes.Feb 21 04:20
oiaohmthat could render there licences null and void.Feb 21 04:20
oiaohmSome get upset when they get told don't bother looking for a loop hole in GPL.   Without agreeing you cannot do anything.   Because its the only thing that gives you the right to ship it.Feb 21 04:21
schestowitzIs that your cat?Feb 21 04:25
oiaohmNopFeb 21 04:25
schestowitzOh, I thought you'd aid somethiing elseFeb 21 04:26
oiaohmJust something I found in my travels around the net.Feb 21 04:26
oiaohmSome day I should try to write the most evil EULA that could ever be created.Feb 21 04:26
oiaohmJust for fun.Feb 21 04:27
oiaohmWonder if you can legally get away with a program where you have to pay twice the last ammount every month.Feb 21 04:31
oiaohmStarting at 1 dollar.Feb 21 04:31
oiaohmIn 3 years you are stuffed for sure.Feb 21 04:32
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ZiggyFishhelloFeb 21 07:25
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schestowitzThis post must have hit a nerve. 21 10:21
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oiaohm_Yep its hitting a nerve everywhere.Feb 21 10:34
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schestowitz"Dan"'s response regarding where he lives was funny. We have Novell employee commenting from the domain, but also from around that area :-DFeb 21 10:38
oiaohm_The thing that will be drawing them out novell stories are starting to be replcated.Feb 21 10:40
oiaohm_SUSE Crisis Watch is current comment off.Feb 21 10:41
oiaohm_I guess you choose to do that schestowitzFeb 21 10:41
schestowitzYEs.Feb 21 10:43
oiaohm_You might have to rename you blog if Novell goes belly up.Feb 21 10:45
schestowitzNot reallyFeb 21 10:46
schestowitzIt's just a name.... Feb 21 11:06
schestowitzFacebook Boots Off Almost 5600 Sex Offenders; Don't You Feel Safer Now? < >Feb 21 11:06
oiaohm_How many days before they are back.Feb 21 11:07
schestowitzThey'll move to another place.Feb 21 11:13
schestowitzSame with drug dealers and prostitutes on Craigslist. You can stop them by just clogging up one among tens/hundreds of sites.Feb 21 11:14
schestowitzMicrosoft promoted his mafia extortion-like head.Feb 21 11:17
schestowitz "[H]e also has been a proponent of controversial cross-patent licensing agreements that Microsoft has struck with companies as a way to derive revenue from its extensive patent portfolio."Feb 21 11:17
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schestowitzGood video: 21 11:41
trmancoWowFeb 21 11:58
trmancoI'm using git right now with git-gui... it is very powerfulFeb 21 11:59
schestowitzThe project is named after LinusFeb 21 11:59
schestowitzLike Linux (says he)Feb 21 11:59
oiaohm_Ok good video misses one key point most people these days cannot read the bible and understand it.Feb 21 12:01
oiaohm_Terms used in it have changed with time.Feb 21 12:01
oiaohm_Hell is a miss translation of the ancent word for garbage dump.   Would not read that well if it was corrected.Feb 21 12:02
schestowitzYesFeb 21 12:02
schestowitzImistakenly linked to part 2 (out of 7)Feb 21 12:02
oiaohm_Ok minorlly out burning garbage dump.Feb 21 12:02
oiaohm_Not a place I would ever want to be.  Lot of churches you still here the firm and brimstone bit.Feb 21 12:03
oiaohm_There is no brimstone in hell.Feb 21 12:03
trmancogit pushFeb 21 12:08
trmancoCounting objects: 8, done.Feb 21 12:08
trmancoCompressing objects: 100% (4/4), done.Feb 21 12:08
trmancoWriting objects: 100% (6/6), 565 bytes, done.Feb 21 12:08
trmancoTotal 6 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)Feb 21 12:08
trmancoTo 21 12:08
trmanco   3d47db7..ace3eb3  master -> masterFeb 21 12:08
trmancoheheheheFeb 21 12:08
trmancoc00lFeb 21 12:08
MinceRgeekingsFeb 21 13:06
oiaohm_  Watch the video it has no sound I think someone was playing too much janaga.Feb 21 13:28
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schestowitz "After two days of picketing and vociferous protests, the New York Post has apologised for printing a cartoon that was interpreted by some readers as comparing America’s first black President to a crazed and violent ape."Feb 21 15:04
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schestowitzHere is an article that casts "server" as "cloud" (because it's more hype-worthy): 21 15:32
schestowitzI've heard it from a reliable source that Phelps failed to 'sell' a patent deal to Red Hat (Horacio Gutierrez has just been promoted BTW), so it's possible that Microsoft is letting the Novell plot go down the can (not without getting the Moonlight/Mono infection inside GNU/Linux) while trying to coerce Red Hat customers somehow.Feb 21 15:37
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schestowitzWhy is Asay sucking up to this patent bully? 21 15:38
MinceRbecause he's a corporate bitchFeb 21 15:38
schestowitz*whisper* *crickets*Feb 21 15:40
schestowitzHe's like ChamberlainFeb 21 15:40
schestowitz 21 15:41
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MinceR 21 15:48
MinceRlulzFeb 21 15:48
schestowitzEverything he submits to Slashdot (Matt Asay) his buddy Rob Malda accepts blindly. 21 16:01
MinceRthe joke is on him nowFeb 21 16:02
MinceRhis beloved crApple is so closed it makes Monkey Boy cryFeb 21 16:02
schestowitzMicrosoft has just pulled its corruption in CataloniaFeb 21 16:07
*schestowitz does a post about itFeb 21 16:07
schestowitzApple hardly shoots down migrations to LinuxFeb 21 16:08
schestowitzWe need to focus on Bigger Criminals firstFeb 21 16:08
MinceRi'm not sure we can let them grow to become the second microsoft after the first one dies.Feb 21 16:09
MinceRespecially considering that they're worse in some waysFeb 21 16:10
schestowitzDid you see ?Feb 21 16:14
MinceRnot yetFeb 21 16:15
trmancothe troll got owned -> 21 16:16
trmancoschestowitz, you are getting attacked againFeb 21 16:19
trmancoyou must be doing something right, have you noticed?Feb 21 16:19
schestowitz If any of these can be turned to full texts (not just snippets), then we can post away.Feb 21 16:19
schestowitzI didn't see. Let's check.Feb 21 16:20
trmanco3 spam posts with 2 minute interval on the first twoFeb 21 16:21
schestowitzGary's/Microsoft's having a tantrum.Feb 21 16:22
schestowitzMicrosoft is a dying company. Windows margins approach 9.Feb 21 16:22
schestowitz*0 (not 9)Feb 21 16:22
schestowitztrmanco: let me show you somethingFeb 21 16:23
schestowitzMS does in Catalonia what it did in Protugal.Feb 21 16:23
schestowitzSee if you spot typos..Feb 21 16:24
trmancowhere?Feb 21 16:24
schestowitz 21 16:26
schestowitzThis mirrors EXACTLY what they did in Portugal. Maybe I suggest that you mail this to friends of yours so that they learn what Microsoft does to them and why?Feb 21 16:26
trmancoI'll read itFeb 21 16:29
trmancoMy email friends don't careFeb 21 16:29
trmancoI don't have these kind of friends... maybe my followers at will be interestedFeb 21 16:29
trmancocool, just read itFeb 21 16:31
schestowitzWe have at least one reader that I know of from Catalonia.Feb 21 16:31
schestowitzTime for some more Catalonian anarchy... 21 16:32
trmanco 21 16:33
schestowitzCool. thanls. is for tracking?Feb 21 16:34
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trmancoschestowitz, no, it is a url shortening serviceFeb 21 16:38
trmancoGwibber does this automaticallyFeb 21 16:38
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schestowitztrmanco: what if the service goes down 5 years from now?Feb 21 16:47
schestowitzAll your references become utterly bunk.Feb 21 16:48
trmancolink lostFeb 21 16:48
schestowitzNo way to even put it into Web ArchiveFeb 21 16:48
schestowitzI'd advised against putting just the short one, but I understand why people use it nonethelessFeb 21 16:48
trmancohaven't thought if thisFeb 21 16:48
schestowitzI use my postings from years ago to identify things I used to know.Feb 21 16:48
trmancoof*Feb 21 16:48
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schestowitzbblFeb 21 17:15
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balzacHewlitt Packard - I can't say enough bad things about their computersFeb 21 18:14
balzaccrap hardware, crap softwareFeb 21 18:14
balzacdumb little consumer-grade buttons for email, "Club HP" getting in the way of function keys.Feb 21 18:15
balzacIt's like their computer was designed by the marketing department who don't know how to use computers.Feb 21 18:15
balzacCarli fiorini was bad for HP.Feb 21 18:15
balzacAnd don't get me started about all their craptastic software bundled with the world's lamest operating system, Windows.Feb 21 18:16
balzacWhat happened to that venerable technology company? It's unrecognizable.Feb 21 18:17
balzacWell, the NYSE deal is good news for HPFeb 21 18:18
balzacIt's not all badFeb 21 18:18
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mib_eudnskIs there a good executive summary, with references, ofFeb 21 18:39
mib_eudnskthe harrassment that MS persecutes against public andFeb 21 18:39
mib_eudnskprivate figures?Feb 21 18:39
balzacmib_eudnsk: I have not compiled such a thingFeb 21 18:40
balzacI have witnessed the harassment of Novell-sympathetic astro-turfers ganging up against schestowitzFeb 21 18:40
mib_eudnskI've read about and even seen many myself,Feb 21 18:42
balzacmib_eudnsk: if you want an executive summary, you may be the one whose calling it is to write it.Feb 21 18:42
mib_eudnskbut I'm really looking for a ready-to-use summaryFeb 21 18:42
balzacI don't write executive summaries because I don't give a rat's ass about convincing any executives.Feb 21 18:43
mib_eudnsknormally I don't eitherFeb 21 18:43
balzacI'm building my own company to compete as well as I can.Feb 21 18:44
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mib_eudnski'm consulting for three groups that seem to haveFeb 21 18:46
mib_eudnskstarted getting the 'treatment'Feb 21 18:46
mib_eudnsksome of the execs have gone badFeb 21 18:46
mib_eudnskbut the real trouble is from a handful of molesFeb 21 18:46
mib_eudnskat each siteFeb 21 18:46
balzacinterestingFeb 21 18:52
balzacEnterpise companies getting the nipple-clamps from Microsoft?Feb 21 18:52
balzacThe old high-heel on the scrotum from Steve Ballmer?Feb 21 18:53
balzacjkFeb 21 18:53
mib_eudnsknot quite that directFeb 21 18:53
balzacI'm guessing these companies have a heterogenous software environmentFeb 21 18:53
mib_eudnskbut a number of gold partners or former gold partnersFeb 21 18:53
mib_eudnskdoing their mischiefFeb 21 18:53
balzacwhat operating systems in what proportions?Feb 21 18:53
balzacIt's a tricky situation to deal withFeb 21 18:54
balzacLast time I was in such a situation, my language was not diplomatic enough and my strategy was not Machiavelian.Feb 21 18:55
balzacI isolated myself from using strong language against the proprietary unix from Sun.Feb 21 18:56
balzacI was pushing for Redhat instead.Feb 21 18:56
mib_eudnski've run into it before, they ask for reports, and one wastes timeFeb 21 18:56
mib_eudnskmaking the reports and/or investigationsFeb 21 18:56
mib_eudnskand not working on the deploymentsFeb 21 18:56
balzacMy problem was that I was having to work too hard to stay cool-headed.Feb 21 18:56
balzacgetting burdened with tedious work is not helpfulFeb 21 18:57
mib_eudnskRegarding cool-headed, the gold partners haveFeb 21 18:57
mib_eudnskno qualms about lying while smilingFeb 21 18:57
balzacNext time I'll be in better positionFeb 21 18:57
mib_eudnskexecs only see the smileFeb 21 18:57
balzacwell, they've got the financial backing, so it's easier to stay coolFeb 21 18:57
balzachere's my website for my company (not yet incorporated)Feb 21 18:58
balzachttp://www.disruptech.comFeb 21 18:58
balzacMy plan is to offer what I call "friendly or internal software license audits"Feb 21 18:59
balzacto see how many proprietary software licenses can be dropped, not renewed, replaced with free softwareFeb 21 18:59
balzacand get a commission on savingsFeb 21 18:59
balzacI'll be an "anti-salesman"Feb 21 18:59
mib_eudnskaudit only works with cooperation, gold partners seem to rather dieFeb 21 18:59
balzac"don't buy this, don't buy that, slash your IT budget spending on software licenses.Feb 21 19:00
mib_eudnskthan see any non-MS products whether closed or open sourceFeb 21 19:00
mib_eudnsklicenses are only a small part of the savings,Feb 21 19:00
mib_eudnskoperational costs for FOSS are usually only a small fraction of MSFTFeb 21 19:00
balzacwell, the economy is hurting companies - I need to find a company desparate to save money.Feb 21 19:00
mib_eudnskmany, however, will not be making tech decisions based on economicsFeb 21 19:01
mib_eudnskbut rather on ideologyFeb 21 19:01
balzacwell, then they can go out of businessFeb 21 19:01
mib_eudnskI've seen a few European banks lose *lots* of money ...Feb 21 19:01
mib_eudnskyeah, many will go out of business, but even on the way outFeb 21 19:01
balzaclots of companies have gone out of business alreadyFeb 21 19:01
mib_eudnskit will be denial from execs regarding the ineffectiveness MSFT products bringFeb 21 19:02
balzaclet these companies cling to M$ Vista as they let out their death rattleFeb 21 19:02
balzacI'll be using Open Office insteadFeb 21 19:02
balzacUbuntu and RedhatFeb 21 19:03
mib_eudnskyeah, but its not nice to see people lose their because the company closedFeb 21 19:04
balzacwhat's your strategy to deal with these stubborn people?Feb 21 19:04
mib_eudnskhaven't decided yetFeb 21 19:04
balzacwell, if it opens up market space for my company to operate within, I'm not going to worry about people who fetishize archaic software licenses.Feb 21 19:05
balzacBut yeah, it is not nice to see people losing their jobsFeb 21 19:07
balzacI have a slogan - keep your people, change your softwareFeb 21 19:07
balzacI make the case that software vendors should not be so influential within a given companyFeb 21 19:08
balzacand that people ought not to be hired or fired on the basis of a given productFeb 21 19:08
balzacif you're a systems administrator, hopefully you have some transferable skills and can be re-trained for a new OSFeb 21 19:09
balzacI'm hoping to disarm resistance within a client company by not being seen as a threat to people's jobs.Feb 21 19:10
balzacI want to be the grim reaper of proprietary software licenses, not people's jobs.Feb 21 19:10
balzacI should put that on my websiteFeb 21 19:11
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trmancoLOL, Microsoft has its own version control system (didn't know)Feb 21 19:30
schestowitzI missed a good talkFeb 21 19:37
schestowitzmoles listFeb 21 19:37
schestowitzhow typical... and smearsFeb 21 19:37
schestowitzThey got bbc-edFeb 21 19:37
schestowitztrmanco: making these is not too much workFeb 21 19:38
schestowitzcase of point: git tovaldsFeb 21 19:38
schestowitz*rvaldsFeb 21 19:38
trmancohttp://www-cs-students.stan...Feb 21 19:40
trmancoI'm reading this right nowFeb 21 19:40
schestowitzhm.Feb 21 19:41
schestowitzms shareholders just mailed me...Feb 21 19:41
schestowitzlet me read... it's long  :-)Feb 21 19:41
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schestowitzI'll paste it here anonymisedFeb 21 19:44
schestowitzTurns out Microsoft is in damage control tooFeb 21 19:45
schestowitzThey realise that people are up to what they do.......Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz=============Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"This email is in regards to a post that was discovered at Boycott Novell. It makes reference to a shareholder activist campaign and its progress." Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"Activists use various strategies to effect change. Ironfire Capital created a "Plan B" for Yahoo and through the Internet using blogs, wiki's and youtube effected change. In mid-December 2008 we launched a similar strategy. The intention was to use a blog to rally support."Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"The blog component was and is simply a tool. After the campaign it will be abandoned. Therefore, focusing on changing a URL spelling was trivial."Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz "The campaign has however attracted a report at Microsoft SubNet located at both and also " Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"It has also attracted attention from a Microsoft employee who can be located at " Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"We are also in discussions with hedge funds and other large shareholders concerning the campaign." Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"The next post for Microsoft SubNet will include a article from a large shareholder. The reports are also being forwared to other media companies."Feb 21 19:45
schestowitz"Thought that you should be aware of the campaign and its real progress."Feb 21 19:45 is down?Feb 21 19:48 was tooFeb 21 19:48
schestowitzbrb (showerFeb 21 19:49
trmanconews campain?Feb 21 19:49
trmanconew/*Feb 21 19:49
schestowitzwhere?Feb 21 19:49
trmancothe emailFeb 21 19:49
schestowitzyesFeb 21 19:49
schestowitzthey pressureFeb 21 19:49
schestowitzlike BNFeb 21 19:49
schestowitzThey pressure the managementFeb 21 19:49
trmancogoodFeb 21 19:49
schestowitzthey compare ballmer to madoffFeb 21 19:50
schestowitzCalifornia ban on violent video games killed on appeal < >Feb 21 20:06
schestowitz 21 20:09
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schestowitz*LOL* "This API needs to be moved into CodePlex or be available as an unsupported "PowerOverEngineeredPack.dll"." So has Novell moved its hosting to Microsoft yet?Feb 21 20:15
balzacinteresting email from ms shareholdersFeb 21 20:48
balzacgood shiyatFeb 21 20:48
schestowitzThey are angryFeb 21 20:50
schestowitzThey lost a fortuneFeb 21 20:50
schestowitzYou remember jose, right/Feb 21 20:50
schestowitz?Feb 21 20:50
balzacyeahFeb 21 20:50
balzacI'm listening to the barber of sevilleFeb 21 20:51
balzacgood music to ponder big changes in the software marketFeb 21 20:51
*schestowitz searches for a logFeb 21 20:52
schestowitzI think I found it: 21 20:54
schestowitzIt's about Microsoft's tissue paper (money) campaignFeb 21 20:54
balzaclemme check it outFeb 21 20:56
balzacthey all cook their books to a greater or lesser degreeFeb 21 20:58
balzacthat's why I've been challenging those who are so wound up about MadoffFeb 21 20:59
balzachis biggest crime was not getting bailed outFeb 21 20:59
balzacIt gives me hope for M$ to have a catastrophic collapseFeb 21 20:59
balzacbut they have something real - a huge install baseFeb 21 20:59
balzacI don't think they can disappear quite as quickly as Bear Stearns, because M$ has some real substance, cooked-books or not.Feb 21 21:00
schestowitzbalzac: they too say, "everyone's doin' it"Feb 21 21:01
schestowitzI don't know if it's a US-only problem (see Satyam for example), but the whole world of commerce is a huge inflated lies that relies on peer keeping their lies tooFeb 21 21:02
balzacthere's hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of abstract, inter-dependent currenciesFeb 21 21:03
schestowitzMadoff busted -> richest lady reportedly committing suicide -> banks collapse -> another massive fraudsters exposed -> business want to loot the public (stimulus)...Feb 21 21:03
balzacbut the GPD for the whole world is estimated at 60 trillionFeb 21 21:03
schestowitzWHat about non-currency-based costs?Feb 21 21:04
balzacI don't mean currencies literallyFeb 21 21:04
balzacI'm not a finance guy, so I don't know the right jargonFeb 21 21:04
schestowitzWhat about environmental capacity, sources of food, amount of land (diminishing), drinkable waters..Feb 21 21:04
balzacI mean securities, stocks, hedge fund sharesFeb 21 21:04
balzacmost of its value is only loosely based on reality - it's like a game of musical chairsFeb 21 21:05
schestowitzOver-inflation of assets is now a factFeb 21 21:05
balzacwhen it's time for everyone to take a seat, most of the people playing the game have no chairFeb 21 21:05
schestowitzThe question is, how much? Who gave the debt?Feb 21 21:05
schestowitzWhat about 'vacuums' like Madoff's creation?Feb 21 21:05
schestowitzbalzac: I like the chair analogy (musical chairs)Feb 21 21:06
balzacRoy, one of Marx's better insights in economic theory was about looking deeper than the shell-game of capitalism and seeing the material basis for the economy - workers and resourcesFeb 21 21:06
balzacyou mentioned environmental capacity which is of primary importanceFeb 21 21:07
schestowitzWill be.Feb 21 21:07
balzacthe environment is ultimately the material basis for the economy, not even workers with machines and other non-organic resourcesFeb 21 21:07
schestowitzBut for reasons people missFeb 21 21:07
schestowitzLike globalisation, people don't understand what the issue is.Feb 21 21:07
schestowitzIn centralisation, it can mean return to feudalism.Feb 21 21:08
schestowitzIn the case of environment, it can lead to terrorism very fast (thirst, refugees, natural disasters)Feb 21 21:08
schestowitzbalzac: yes, the environment is like part of the financial 'food chain;Feb 21 21:09
balzacyeah, things could start to look like that game with the scientist with the crow-arFeb 21 21:09
schestowitzThe farmer assumes he 'owns' the landFeb 21 21:09
balzachalf lifeFeb 21 21:09
schestowitzAnother person owns the farmerFeb 21 21:09
schestowitzFarmer feed wal-martFeb 21 21:09
schestowitzWal-mart owned by family... and so on and so forthFeb 21 21:09
balzacMonsanto is the Microsoft of genetic engineeringFeb 21 21:09
balzacthey make bad foodFeb 21 21:09
balzacI had one of they're fleshy tomatoes in my salad yesterdayFeb 21 21:10
schestowitzWhen the chain can't supply from the bottom, it all collapses. The fish in the sea do run out ("there are NOT plenty of fish in the sea")Feb 21 21:10
balzacit has genes from grass-hoppers for connective tissue as well as anti-freeze genes from north sea fishFeb 21 21:10
schestowitzGordon?Feb 21 21:10
schestowitzHLFeb 21 21:10
schestowitzThey already 'engineer' chicken rather than growing itFeb 21 21:11
schestowitzSame with GM foodsFeb 21 21:11
schestowitzDid you see how they grow chickens now?Feb 21 21:11
balzacnoFeb 21 21:11
schestowitzLike these are machines..Feb 21 21:11
schestowitzHold onn..Feb 21 21:11
balzacinside a very small cage, I supposeFeb 21 21:11
schestowitz 21 21:11
balzacthis guy I know refers to chickens as "cackle-fruit"Feb 21 21:11
schestowitzbalzac: no, worse..Feb 21 21:11
schestowitzIt's a one-hour show, but a good one..Feb 21 21:11
balzacyeah, that is sick, sick, sickFeb 21 21:12
balzacI've seen clips of this, where their little beaks are clipped off by a cauterizing snipperFeb 21 21:13
balzacso they can't damage each otherFeb 21 21:13
balzacI shouldn't eat it, but what should I eat instead?Feb 21 21:13
balzaceventually, there'll be only "soylent green" if the Repugnicans have their way.Feb 21 21:14
balzacand it will be political dissidents who will be scooped up by the riot control scoops and fed into the grinder.Feb 21 21:14
balzacto feed the dim-witted cannibals who have no idea at first that they're eating their fellow humansFeb 21 21:15
balzacand then it becomes common knowledge, but hunger prevails over shock and revulsion, and it is accepted like the cannibalism which has occurred in isolated places where food is lacking.Feb 21 21:16
balzacthen when you reach retirement age (35), you're considered obsolete and your protein is recycledFeb 21 21:17
balzacbut the politicians would still have a long life-spanFeb 21 21:17
schestowitzHere's the issueFeb 21 21:17
balzacthey would harvest the organs of children to extend their livesFeb 21 21:17
schestowitzThe more efficiently food is made, the more baby boomers you getFeb 21 21:17
schestowitzSame in Africa.Feb 21 21:18
schestowitzImprove health, increase birth rateFeb 21 21:18
schestowitzMaybe it's human's nature.Feb 21 21:18
schestowitzThe dinosaurs too used to roam the EarthFeb 21 21:18
balzacSomebody needs to file another class-action lawsuit against the catholic churchFeb 21 21:18
balzaca friend and I were just talking about the environment yesterdayFeb 21 21:18
*mib_ie1wyd (i=4d6261c6@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellFeb 21 21:19
balzacthe Police song "Walking in Your Foot Steps" came upFeb 21 21:19
schestowitzLawsuit, eh?Feb 21 21:19
balzac"hey mighty brontosaurus, don't you have a lesson for us?"Feb 21 21:19
schestowitzThese hardly solve issues.Feb 21 21:19
schestowitzThey feed lawyers.Feb 21 21:19
balzacwell, there have already been class-action lawsuits against various diocese for all the buggary of childrenFeb 21 21:19
balzaclots of themFeb 21 21:20
balzaclawyers need to eat too, ya knowFeb 21 21:20
balzacso anyway, a class-action lawsuit against the catholic church and various other churches for undermining crucial knowledge and access to birth control and disease preventionFeb 21 21:20
schestowitzPeople have mouthsFeb 21 21:20
schestowitzThey can speak for themselvesFeb 21 21:21
balzacI agreeFeb 21 21:21
schestowitzbalzac: I'd rather not go face-to-face with religions.lFeb 21 21:21
schestowitzI can face corrupt officialsFeb 21 21:21
balzacit's important that people still excerise the right of self-representation in courtFeb 21 21:21
schestowitzNot people who do things on God_X's behalfFeb 21 21:21
balzacwell, thankfully, there are people like Sam HarrisFeb 21 21:22
schestowitzSee what ESR got in his blog for exampleFeb 21 21:22
balzacauthor of "The End of Faith"Feb 21 21:22
schestowitzOr Scientology Cult...Feb 21 21:22
balzacI was meaning to mention about ESRs blog-crazinessFeb 21 21:22
schestowitzI posted a video here this morningFeb 21 21:22
schestowitzFrom the author of "God is Not Great"Feb 21 21:22
balzache's linked to the "anti-idiotarian rottweiler" who is quite racistFeb 21 21:22
schestowitzPart 1 starts here: 21 21:22
balzacChristopher HitchensFeb 21 21:22
balzacgreat titleFeb 21 21:22
balzacheheFeb 21 21:22
balzacI really like his contrarian streak, though he can be a serious moron sometimesFeb 21 21:23
schestowitzIt's the best when it comes from people who grew up in religious backgroundsFeb 21 21:23
schestowitzLike [H]omer Feb 21 21:23
schestowitzOr HitchensFeb 21 21:23
schestowitzChomsky.. sorta.Feb 21 21:23
balzacWell, people need to "call a spade a spade"Feb 21 21:24
balzacReligious leaders ought to be directly challenged on the legitimacy of their roles within their religionFeb 21 21:24
balzacso a man is a preacher - does he think he knows "god" more than a layman?Feb 21 21:25
balzacor a bishop, pope, rabbi, guruFeb 21 21:25
balzaceven the dalai lamaFeb 21 21:25
balzacbut I'd want to challenge Chinese imperialism in Tibet before I criticize the Dalai LamaFeb 21 21:26
balzacbut how does the Dalai Lama go and meet with George Bush (who was occupying Iraq) to lobby him for support against the Chinese occupation of Tibet?Feb 21 21:26
balzacWouldn't it be ironic if Moqtada al Sadr went to China and lobbied Hu Jintao for support against Bush's occupation of Iraq?Feb 21 21:27
schestowitzThat would be riskyFeb 21 21:28
schestowitzHe would get 'liberated'Feb 21 21:28
balzacyeah, he wouldn't do thatFeb 21 21:28
balzacbut maybe they can make an oil deal with chinaFeb 21 21:29
balzacget the USA off our backs and we'll cut you a deal on oilFeb 21 21:29
balzacI'm just saying, the Dalai Lama really invited criticism and doubts about 'his holiness' when he met with BushFeb 21 21:30
balzacOther Buddhists might have punched Bush in the nose instead of holding his handFeb 21 21:30
balzacthat might have been the "right action" for a "bodhisattva"Feb 21 21:31
schestowitzCHina deserves energy tooFeb 21 21:31
balzacsureFeb 21 21:31
schestowitzBut that would ruin the American empireFeb 21 21:31
balzacChinese workers deserve incomeFeb 21 21:31
schestowitzThat would enable them to do too much for too little($$)Feb 21 21:31
balzacwell, thinks can't change too quickly, or instability is the resultFeb 21 21:31
schestowitzPopulation size must be policedFeb 21 21:32
schestowitzOtherwise there will be deathsFeb 21 21:32
balzacwell, perhaps not "policed"Feb 21 21:32
schestowitzChoice: mass genocide or birth controlFeb 21 21:32
schestowitzPick one.Feb 21 21:32
balzacbut incentives against copy-cats of the "octo-mom"Feb 21 21:32
balzacvoluntary birth control, but strong peer pressureFeb 21 21:33
schestowitzThe human population would be fine had there been only about 60 million of usFeb 21 21:33
balzacwhat it requires is that people are informed and equipedFeb 21 21:33
schestowitzHow many elephants are there?Feb 21 21:33
schestowitzLike less than a million, right?Feb 21 21:33
schestowitzThe Earth if densely populated not by people who ride horsiesFeb 21 21:33
balzacI'd like more than 60,000,000. that's the population of EnglandFeb 21 21:33
schestowitzThey drive massive (1-tonne) carsFeb 21 21:33
schestowitzbalzac: spread throughFeb 21 21:34
balzacI have to grab my laundryFeb 21 21:34
schestowitzThat would also enable the rest of nature (nature!=human civilisation) to merely existFeb 21 21:34
schestowitzIn some places, even bugs are food.Feb 21 21:34
balzacbrbFeb 21 21:34
balzaceven mudFeb 21 21:34
schestowitz:-oFeb 21 21:34
balzachaiti, according to an article i read yesterdayFeb 21 21:34
schestowitzEwww...Feb 21 21:35
balzacmud cookiesFeb 21 21:35
schestowitzDude, I was just about to have dinnerFeb 21 21:37
balzacbon appetieFeb 21 21:42
balzacappetiteFeb 21 21:42
schestowitzNo, oppsite rather. I'm trying to get this picture of rainy day and kids picking up 'dinner' off the ground for mom to cook.Feb 21 21:42
balzacjust a little something to keep the belly from rumblingFeb 21 21:43
balzacyou might get some nutrients from soil bacteria and fungi as wellFeb 21 21:43
schestowitzDue!Feb 21 21:43
balzacthere's a little biomass in therFeb 21 21:43
schestowitz*DuDe!Feb 21 21:43
schestowitzTake about it later. I'm running out of appetite here.Feb 21 21:44
balzacalright...Feb 21 21:44
balzacsorryFeb 21 21:44
balzacat least i'm not carrying on about soylent greenFeb 21 21:44
balzacRoy, have a good weekendFeb 21 21:45
balzacTime to start prowling the neighborhoodFeb 21 21:47
schestowitzHeh.Feb 21 21:48
*Balrog ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 21 22:11
Balroghello everyoneFeb 21 22:24
schestowitzHey, wbFeb 21 22:26
Balrogheard of the 'mini-microsoft' blog? I'm taking a look at it (note that I'm no friend of MS)Feb 21 22:30
Balrogthe comments are quite interesting ... lolFeb 21 22:31
schestowitzYesFeb 21 22:32
schestowitzGold mine sometimesFeb 21 22:32
schestowitzIf you have the patienceFeb 21 22:32
schestowitzThough it's hard to verify authenticityFeb 21 22:32
schestowitzThey speak of scandals there tooFeb 21 22:32
BalrogI see.Feb 21 22:33
schestowitzLike MD of Microsoft India having an affair with one of his employeesFeb 21 22:33
schestowitzAnd one taking a vacation he wasn't supposed to....Feb 21 22:33
Balrogheh. But is it confirm-able?Feb 21 22:33
schestowitzPeople who silently jump ship like two MS VPsFeb 21 22:33
schestowitzBalrog: hardly, if you cite the sourceFeb 21 22:33
schestowitzIt's hard to use "anonymous" comments as proofFeb 21 22:33
schestowitzYou can 'plant' thoseFeb 21 22:34
Balrogthat's what I thought.Feb 21 22:34
schestowitzBut they can serve as a clue to start separate investigationFeb 21 22:34
Balrogtrue.Feb 21 22:34
*ZiggyFish ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 21 22:35
Balroginteresting. Even though iWork has no ODF support, Apple's TextEdit doesFeb 21 22:37
Balrog(to open files)Feb 21 22:37
Balrogmany people still use docFeb 21 22:38
ZiggyFishto manyFeb 21 22:39
BalrogyeahFeb 21 22:39
Balrogat least doc is compatible, unlike docxFeb 21 22:39
ZiggyFishtrueFeb 21 22:40
Balrogwhy do they even have to change the format? why not release the doc spec?Feb 21 22:40
schestowitzBalrog: Apple is not serious about itFeb 21 22:41
schestowitzApple is not a threat to Microsoft; not much anywayFeb 21 22:41
schestowitzMicrosoft uses Apple (and vice versa)Feb 21 22:41
ZiggyFishas with anything microsoft, they _HAVE TO_ compete, so they created docx to compete with ODFFeb 21 22:41
Balrogprobably notFeb 21 22:41
Balrogthey only care that stuff works for people that use itFeb 21 22:41
schestowitzTheir scare is to do with things like SaaS and free software that builds SaaSFeb 21 22:41
Balrogtrue.Feb 21 22:41
schestowitzOracle would probably want to be a driver of SaaS with LinuxFeb 21 22:41
schestowitzBut MySQL is pretty popular there.Feb 21 22:42
schestowitzAmong other things..Feb 21 22:42
BalrogI see.Feb 21 22:42
MinceRi wouldn't call that "competing"Feb 21 22:42
ZiggyFishschestowitz: got a new HTC dream mobile phone yesterday, (absolutely amazing)Feb 21 22:42
BalrogBy the way, iWork can't export OOXMLFeb 21 22:42
Balrogit can only import itFeb 21 22:42
MinceRit's more of trying to make everyone else in the field of IT unable to conduct businessFeb 21 22:42
schestowitzZiggyFish: I saw G1.Feb 21 22:42
ZiggyFishMinceR: agreedFeb 21 22:42
Balrogyeah.Feb 21 22:42
BalrogZiggyFish: G1?Feb 21 22:43
schestowitzIs this another Android that's just reached Aussie? I think I read about it last month.Feb 21 22:43
Balrogahh ... dream is androidFeb 21 22:43
Balrogyes that's the oneFeb 21 22:43
ZiggyFishBalrog: it's australias version of G1Feb 21 22:43
schestowitz 21 22:43
BalrogyeahFeb 21 22:43
Balrogit's hard to get root on them thoughFeb 21 22:44
Balrogso you have the tivo-ization problemFeb 21 22:44
Balrog(doesn't the GPL3 prevent that though?)Feb 21 22:44
ZiggyFishBalrog: the android platform is not under GPL (it's under Apache)Feb 21 22:45
Balrogah. But what about the kernel?Feb 21 22:45
PetoKraus 21 22:45
PetoKrausthis is worth linkingFeb 21 22:45
ZiggyFishBalrog: not sureFeb 21 22:46
Balrogok.Feb 21 22:46
ZiggyFishbut it does run the 2.6.25 kernel (as it says  it does in Setting->About phone->Kernel VersionFeb 21 22:48
Balrogthat's GPLv2Feb 21 22:48
Balrogschestowitz: do you have a reference for "iPhone engineers wanted to pick Linux for the iPhone" because I want to read thatFeb 21 22:49
BalrogI don't know if porting Cocoa to Linux would have been simple or easyFeb 21 22:50
ZiggyFishthey have ported nes games to the androidFeb 21 22:50
schestowitzBalrog: yes, I can find itFeb 21 22:50
Balrogok.Feb 21 22:50
schestowitzI think I can find it again. 2 articlesFeb 21 22:51
Balrogok.Feb 21 22:51
schestowitzOne in Wired, IIRC (the original)Feb 21 22:51
BalrogI see.Feb 21 22:51
Balroghaving two separate codebases isn't always greatFeb 21 22:51
schestowitzFound one: 21 22:52
schestowitz"Apple software engineers looked carefully at Linux"Feb 21 22:52
schestowitz"But, Linux on iPhone was  denied by Steve Jobs for the reason that he do not want to utilize someone else’s software"Feb 21 22:52
schestowitzApple doesn't understand sharingFeb 21 22:53
BalrogI wouldn't be surprised if they did. I mean, I'd look at all possible options if I was creating a new platform.Feb 21 22:53
schestowitzIn Apple's terms, sharing="piracy", so they mulled DRMFeb 21 22:53
Balrogheh. Which DRM?Feb 21 22:53
BalrogiWork 09 Retail stopped using serial numbers, by the wayFeb 21 22:54
ZiggyFishschestowitz: did notice the HTC does have an option for DRM contentFeb 21 22:55
Balrog(doing anything that would circumvent ITMS music or video DRM would get the studios mad. The elimination of music DRM was a very controlled process so far)Feb 21 22:55
Balrogand software writers hate piracy (illegal copying and using kind)Feb 21 22:55
Balrogmany are complaining the the app drm is too WEAKFeb 21 22:56
schestowitzPetoKraus: thanks, got it.Feb 21 22:57
Balrog(I watched a discussion on the iPhone-dev mailing list about the issue a while ago.)Feb 21 22:57
BalrogHopefully DRM will slowly die outFeb 21 23:00
Balrog(at least with media)Feb 21 23:00
schestowitzMedia is changingFeb 21 23:09
schestowitzSoftware tooFeb 21 23:09
schestowitzCreative Commons on one sideFeb 21 23:09
schestowitzGPL on anotherFeb 21 23:09
schestowitzSo  DRM is rendered unnecessaryFeb 21 23:09
schestowitzIto had some off words to say on DRM...Feb 21 23:09
Balrogyeah. Though there will still be a market for closed-source software that you pay forFeb 21 23:10
MinceR 21 23:13
MinceRet tu, Sun?Feb 21 23:13
BalrogI saw thatFeb 21 23:14
schestowitzApple and Sun share tactics..Feb 21 23:14
schestowitzThey learn from Microsoft.Feb 21 23:14
schestowitzJava doesn't strike me as evil of Silver Lie thoughFeb 21 23:15
Balrogit's GPLFeb 21 23:15
schestowitzYesFeb 21 23:15
MinceRit isn't that bad but it's creepy.Feb 21 23:15
schestowitzA lot of people already have it installed anyway and it's smallFeb 21 23:16
schestowitzCampare that to apple shove Safari up people's orifices.Feb 21 23:16
schestowitz*shovingFeb 21 23:16
schestowitz"...remember the days when men were men and actually controlled their computers..."Feb 21 23:17
MinceRuninstall is blocked thoughFeb 21 23:19
schestowitzDoes that affect all platforms?Feb 21 23:36
MinceRdunnoFeb 21 23:37
Balrogor MS shoving SliverlightFeb 21 23:43
schestowitzShining it with luv..Feb 21 23:44
BalroghehFeb 21 23:44
BalrogI thought that flash was enoughFeb 21 23:44
Balrognow thisFeb 21 23:44
benJImanFlash is not free software. Both java and moonlight are.Feb 21 23:45
Balrogthat's true. But flash has been around for much longer then silverlight / moonlightFeb 21 23:45
BalrogI don't like it, but I can live with itFeb 21 23:46
Balrogfor nowFeb 21 23:46
schestowitzWho was concerned about Flash?Feb 21 23:46
schestowitzFF 3.1 has Ogg built inFeb 21 23:46
benJImanAnd adobe are more aggressive in protecting flash from third party implementations than microsoft.Feb 21 23:46
schestowitzSo it's important to ram Ogg throughFeb 21 23:46
BalrogOgg is good...h.264 is currently the 'standard'Feb 21 23:46
schestowitzbenJIman: you like Microsoft, we get itFeb 21 23:46
Balrogin an mpeg-4 containerFeb 21 23:46
schestowitzGuess who is also better at threatening Linux with patents.Feb 21 23:47
BalrogOgg within MKV would be nice, but currently there's lack of support for it (by those who create the content)Feb 21 23:47
benJImanNot really. Some microsoft technology is impressive, and other bits suck. Microsoft Research produces some pretty interesting stuff.Feb 21 23:47
Balrogand converters .... few support MKVFeb 21 23:47
Balrogyeah, vaporware, for the most partFeb 21 23:47
schestowitzOr failures like "Surface"Feb 21 23:50
schestowitzRipoff+commercial failFeb 21 23:51
schestowitzMicrosoft Research is a pet dept. for the INNOVA~1 lieFeb 21 23:51
schestowitz"we spend #@!@#$ dollar per year blah blah"Feb 21 23:51
BalrogyeahFeb 21 23:52
schestowitz"We at Microsoft are innovative because we have something called MS Research"Feb 21 23:52
schestowitzOther companies have the same BSFeb 21 23:52
Balrogrecently investors complained that research wastes too much $Feb 21 23:52
schestowitzI actually needed to submit papers to conferences through MS lackeysFeb 21 23:52
schestowitzThey occupy all sorts of places where they shouldn't beFeb 21 23:52
Balrogyeah :(Feb 21 23:52
schestowitzAcademia shouldn't have place for that, esp. when the company is rules a criminal one (Jackson et al)Feb 21 23:52
schestowitz*ruledFeb 21 23:53
Balrogyeah. D:Feb 21 23:53
MinceRflash is trash. moonlight isn't free.Feb 21 23:54
schestowitzIf we were to tolerate societies where working for criminals is acceptable "because you don't do crimes yourself", then war worlds and great depression can easily recur. The "only following orders"/"paying the bills" memFeb 21 23:54
schestowitz*memeFeb 21 23:54
*schestowitz only ever uses Flash to stream silly pixels and audio. Could use Ogg for that.Feb 21 23:55
BalrogFlash sucks, but it's right now everywhere (or in most places)Feb 21 23:55
Balrogbut why make Sliverlight, which is a look-alike to flash?Feb 21 23:56
schestowitzIt's video that got it 'popular' (around 2004). Hey, if I needed bouncing letter and flying rectangles, I'd go to the circus.Feb 21 23:56
schestowitzBalrog: why make Silver Lie?! Because Microsoft must leverage control. See the memos from them... they must control all standards.Feb 21 23:57
Balrogyes.Feb 21 23:57
schestowitzThey would control hypertext protocols too if they had woken up to the Web earlier than 1995ishFeb 21 23:57
BalrogWhen I first saw it, I thought "why another plugin that does the same thing that an already-existing one?"Feb 21 23:57
schestowitzThey also mimic ODF nowFeb 21 23:57
BalroghehFeb 21 23:57
schestowitzThey'll try to use the criminals from ECMA to ram it down ISOFeb 21 23:57
schestowitzit's eerily quiet on that front and I don't like itFeb 21 23:58
schestowitzThey are giving wiggling room to bribe people, appoint cronies, etc. while all are asleep at the wheelFeb 21 23:58

Recent Techrights' Posts

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