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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009 - Part 1



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balzacM$ should be getting "red-lined"Mar 31 00:00
balzacUntil Bill Gates cries uncle and just admits, RMS is the un-disputed heavyweight of softwareMar 31 00:01
balzacBill Gates should admit that GNU rocks, copyleft is more clever than anything he's done, and he's been full of crap all these years.Mar 31 00:02
balzacthat could save his shareholders a lot of grief if he were to stop clinging to his archaic software licenses and narrow-minded philosophyMar 31 00:03
schestowitzI want to see what Kroes saysMar 31 00:03
schestowitzProbably nothingMar 31 00:03
schestowitzThe EC commission got schmoozedMar 31 00:03
schestowitzAnother thing MS took from the insideMar 31 00:03
schestowitz'Took' = 'bought'Mar 31 00:03
schestowitzHere you have Microsoft abusing a European company with invalid  patentsMar 31 00:04
schestowitzIt's abusing its position also and FAT was shot down in Europe before (in court)Mar 31 00:04
balzacpolitics is about being willfully obtuse in order to represent the ignorance of the massesMar 31 00:06
balzaceveryone who is embracing software patents is ignorant or willfully obtuseMar 31 00:07
balzacHillary Clinton would support software patents with a mind-numbing slogan and a big grinMar 31 00:08
MinceRgnMar 31 00:09
schestowitzbalzac: help organise some digital protest against swpatsMar 31 00:10
balzaclater MinceRMar 31 00:10
schestowitzMake them nervousMar 31 00:10
schestowitzThey are very afraid that the big lie will explode... like a bubbleMar 31 00:10
balzacschestowitz: I have to focus on my work primarilyMar 31 00:10
schestowitzIt's a system of liesMar 31 00:10
schestowitzWhere monopolies gainMar 31 00:10
balzacbut I will oppose software patents by civil disobedience, should it come to thatMar 31 00:10
schestowitzDo what Jon Loch did..Mar 31 00:10
balzacDeliberately call attention to a specific "infringement" of their most cherished software patentMar 31 00:11
balzacbut I don't have the time to worry about that idiocyMar 31 00:12
balzacno time for "angstivism"Mar 31 00:12
balzacmust get money for strippers...Mar 31 00:12
balzacRoy, I made up that wordMar 31 00:13
Balrog_civil disobedience?Mar 31 00:13
balzacangstivism - fruitless activism driven by angstMar 31 00:13
balzacGeorge Soros is the opposite of an "angstivist"Mar 31 00:14
balzacPETA is almost purely angstivismMar 31 00:14
balzacFree Software advocacy is quite awesome and powerful activism, but there can be angsty overtones at timesMar 31 00:15
balzacAl Gore does angstivism at timesMar 31 00:16
balzacanyone who uses Paris Hilton as part of their socially-concerned activist shpiel is probably involved in some kind of angstivismMar 31 00:16
balzacAl Gore couldn't resistMar 31 00:16
balzacThe artist, Banksy did it tooMar 31 00:17
schestowitzAngst leads to goreMar 31 00:17
balzacNader has many years of solid activism, but his recent run for president was pretty angstyMar 31 00:18
balzacKucinich was betterMar 31 00:18
balzacIf the FSF ponied up enough cash to hire Paris Hilton for a few spots, it would be excellent, but it's counter-intuitive.Mar 31 00:20
balzacSo many people would object, but they'd all be wrong.Mar 31 00:20
schestowitzWhat does it have to do with celebrity icons?Mar 31 00:23
balzacsuperficialityMar 31 00:24
schestowitzPlastic surgery can't buy the elections, not even in the USMar 31 00:24
schestowitzA country can be reformed through education but not in a single generationMar 31 00:24
schestowitzAs RMS called it, "mind-virus"Mar 31 00:24
balzacI never heard Paris had any plastic surgeryMar 31 00:24
schestowitzThat's what I heardMar 31 00:24
balzacwell, she looks hot to me, not a trainwreck - yetMar 31 00:24
balzacsuperficiality, charisma, distraction, uselessness - these can be goodMar 31 00:26
balzaclevity rather than the drama of a "purpose-driven" approachMar 31 00:26
balzacexistentialism rather than progressive-ismMar 31 00:26
schestowitzThere's more to life than that.Mar 31 00:27
schestowitzIt encourages dumbing down of the population as wellMar 31 00:27
schestowitzGlorification of ignoranceMar 31 00:27
balzacinstant gratification rather than incremental "progress" which ultimately never attains the stated goalMar 31 00:27
balzacschestowitz: I would cite Lao Tzu's Tao te Ching in defense of laziness, uselessness, and other things which can be virtues in the right contextMar 31 00:28
balzacIt's called the "dark virtue"Mar 31 00:29
schestowitzLike war?Mar 31 00:29
balzacnope, war is angst-drivenMar 31 00:29
schestowitz"war is peace" --OrwellMar 31 00:29
schestowitzWhy suffer the dperession?Mar 31 00:29
schestowitzNo money?Mar 31 00:29
schestowitzNo job?Mar 31 00:29
schestowitzJoin the armyMar 31 00:29
schestowitzFind friendsMar 31 00:29
schestowitzGet bed and foodMar 31 00:29
schestowitzget a big gunMar 31 00:30
schestowitzEnjoy the battlefieldMar 31 00:30
schestowitzShoot IraqisMar 31 00:30
balzacwilhelm reich had some good insights on how problems of human psychology lead to warsMar 31 00:30
schestowitzLike in CounterStrikeMar 31 00:30
balzacsexual frustration being a key driving-forceMar 31 00:30
schestowitzFreud worte about ti tooMar 31 00:30
schestowitzBefore WW1Mar 31 00:30
schestowitzAbout animal instincts that can erupt in menMar 31 00:30
balzacschestowitz: the playing-field of sloganeering, propaganda, non-intellectualism cannot be ceded to those who are not sane enough to handle it responsiblyMar 31 00:31
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balzacif repressed, these animal instincts will erupt violentlyMar 31 00:31
balzacthat's why, non-intellectualism (not anti-intellectualism) must be acknowledged and acceptedMar 31 00:32
schestowitzDid you see the Hitler Youth shouting deliriously?Mar 31 00:32
schestowitzI wonder if there is group-think involved in these thingsMar 31 00:32
schestowitzLike an infectious trend...peer minitationMar 31 00:33
schestowitz*imitationMar 31 00:33
balzacyep, but that underlying angst combine with the purpose-driven mentality, conviction in self-rightousness, and willingness to use deadly force - those were the main problemsMar 31 00:33
schestowitzThis works well with celebritiesMar 31 00:33
balzacyou can see young people shouting deliriously at the superbowl, quite harmlesslyMar 31 00:33
schestowitzOnce a person (like Hilton) is admired, the likelihood of admiration from another person grows greaterMar 31 00:33
balzacbecause sport is existentialist, while social-agendas are purpose-drivenMar 31 00:34
schestowitzThat tooMar 31 00:34
schestowitzSports events can be tribal, by designMar 31 00:34
schestowitznationalism or localismMar 31 00:34
balzacnon-utilitarian lifestyle activities are keyMar 31 00:34
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 31 00:39
balzacJoe Lewis beating Max Shmeling was an important victoryMar 31 00:39
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schestowitzWhat's what about?Mar 31 00:44
balzacwhat I just mentioned?Mar 31 00:47
balzacLewis beating Schmeling was a victory in a sport which struck a psychological blow to the advocates of eugenicsMar 31 00:48
balzacit's a good thing that fight happenedMar 31 00:48
schestowitzAny video?Mar 31 00:50
balzacthey had two fightsMar 31 00:50
balzacschmeling beat joe lewis earlier in their careersMar 31 00:50
balzacjoe lewis won the next fightMar 31 00:50
balzaccheck it out on youtubeMar 31 00:50
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schestowitzwb, tacone Mar 31 00:53
taconepidgin crashedMar 31 00:53
schestowitzbalzac: I will do laterMar 31 00:53
schestowitztacone: into a Windows (pigeon)Mar 31 00:54
tacone?Mar 31 00:54
taconewindows ?Mar 31 00:54
Balrog_pidgin is linuxMar 31 00:57
Balrog_for linux *Mar 31 00:57
taconelolMar 31 00:57
taconeyou read my ctcp, right ?Mar 31 00:57
tacone"Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 IRC ActiveX"Mar 31 00:58
schestowitzI didn'tMar 31 01:00
schestowitzI made a joke about a bird flying into a windowMar 31 01:00
taconeohMar 31 01:01
Balrog_tacone: why is that? are you using windows?Mar 31 01:01
taconeno, a pidgin plugin that let you set what you want.Mar 31 01:01
schestowitzSLED3.11?Mar 31 01:01
Balrog_ah lolMar 31 01:01
Balrog_that's coolMar 31 01:01
taconethat's just a jokeMar 31 01:02
taconebut i'll have to powerup some windows vmMar 31 01:02
taconeto try ubuntu portableMar 31 01:02
taconei'm not a fan of colinux, but i think that would be a nice addition to the livecd, if mixing is technically possible.Mar 31 01:03
schestowitzre swpats: I saw the page from Phipps and discussed it by E-mail with FFII folks. Update tomorrow.Mar 31 01:05
schestowitzbalzac: Red Hat is not the bad guyMar 31 01:05
schestowitzThere might be disinfoMar 31 01:05
balzacRoy, I knowMar 31 01:06
schestowitzStill negotiatedMar 31 01:07
schestowitzSome competition there tooMar 31 01:07
schestowitzRed Hat competitotsMar 31 01:07
balzacBut we're not having a slumber-party and playing with a miniature tea setMar 31 01:07
balzacit's fine to verbally rip whats-his-nameMar 31 01:07
balzacRedhat CEOMar 31 01:07
schestowitzgo to #boycottnovell-socialMar 31 01:08
schestowitzI'll post it thereMar 31 01:08
balzacCEO's often get to where they are by pounding their fists and yellingMar 31 01:08
balzacso they can handle getting dissed on ircMar 31 01:08
balzacI'm pretty pleased with the NYSE dealMar 31 01:08
balzacI appreciate the executives who did that, including Whitehurst and even Fiorini (to whatever extent she was involved)Mar 31 01:09
schestowitzI'm pasting it in #boycottnovell-social to avoid flood hereMar 31 01:09
balzacok, I don't need to carry on about itMar 31 01:10
balzacfeel free to excise whatever you think is not relevant from your posted log filesMar 31 01:11
balzacI ought to get back to work.Mar 31 01:12
schestowitzDid you know OOo download pace doubled in less than a year? Was about 1.3m/week, now about 2.5,/week?Mar 31 01:12
balzacgreat newsMar 31 01:12
schestowitzPeople feel the pinchMar 31 01:12
schestowitzSo they get The Dove (or Gull)Mar 31 01:13
balzacwhat's that?Mar 31 01:14
balzacyou mean the logo of OOo ?Mar 31 01:16
schestowitzYesMar 31 01:22
schestowitzAlso blog nameMar 31 01:22
schestowitzMain blog anywayMar 31 01:22
schestowitzMicrosoft is therefore dumping MSOMar 31 01:22
schestowitzI wrote about it this morning in BNMar 31 01:22
balzacwowMar 31 01:23
balzacArchaic software licenses and exorbitant prices are not sustainable... who could have predicted that?Mar 31 01:24
balzacI saw you mention a correspondence from Tienman earlier.Mar 31 01:25
balzachilarious graphics in your postings todayMar 31 01:27
schestowitzWhich one?Mar 31 01:29
balzacThe "Guppy" plane carpet-bombing peasants with the Marie Antoinette quoteMar 31 01:31
balzacThe mono dialog boxMar 31 01:31
balzacI like your use of imagechef too, for some nice decorationsMar 31 01:31
schestowitzOOo downloads at  2,000,000-3,000,000 < http://blogs.sun.com/j... > vs. "downloaded more than 1.2M times per week" < http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/ent... >Mar 31 01:31
balzacI've been wondering if Sun would buy CanonicalMar 31 01:32
taconeunlikely.Mar 31 01:32
balzacso Sun would have something more current and conventional to offer than solarisMar 31 01:33
balzacI didn't enjoy Solaris much when I used itMar 31 01:33
balzacand I don't like the way Sun is making users fill out too many forms and log in to get downloads of their packagesMar 31 01:34
balzacand handling the presentation of mysql in unconventional ways, man-handling it a bitMar 31 01:34
balzactacone: why not?Mar 31 01:35
balzacShuttleworth is too smart to sell out, probably.Mar 31 01:36
balzache's just finally had a profitable quarter, right?Mar 31 01:36
taconei don't think he wants money so badly.Mar 31 01:36
balzaci agreeMar 31 01:36
taconehe likes money, but don't need it fast.Mar 31 01:36
taconewould be stupid to sell a growing companyMar 31 01:36
balzacwhat will Sun do about enterpise GNU and Linux?Mar 31 01:37
taconeyou usually sell a growing company if you have no money and no longer want to work for the rest of your life.Mar 31 01:37
balzacsurely opensolaris is not their answerMar 31 01:37
schestowitzSUN is selling itselfMar 31 01:37
schestowitzIt ain't buyingMar 31 01:37
taconei have no clue, but they would be better set trying to buy suse or any other smaller distroMar 31 01:37
balzacbuy novell you mean?Mar 31 01:38
taconeno, buy suse. why novell ?Mar 31 01:38
balzacI didn't know it was a companyMar 31 01:38
taconei am fantasizing, of course.Mar 31 01:38
balzachow about hire up the best suse devs and pry it away from novell?Mar 31 01:38
balzacthat would suck for novellMar 31 01:38
taconethat way you don't get the communityMar 31 01:39
taconeyou get a part. and flames after flames.Mar 31 01:39
balzacwell, the suse community needs to be rescued from novell or it'll just dissipateMar 31 01:39
taconeshuttleworth posted on their mailing list some year ago, lolMar 31 01:39
taconeschestowitz: remember ?Mar 31 01:39
schestowitzYesMar 31 01:40
schestowitzThey should go to themMar 31 01:40
taconeto ubuntu you mean ?Mar 31 01:40
schestowitzWell, someone from Red Hat mailed me because I asked them to hire sacked SUSE devsMar 31 01:40
schestowitzSort of askedMar 31 01:40
schestowitzBecause they hired Mandriva devsMar 31 01:40
schestowitzAnd Red Hat is a growing company, so...Mar 31 01:40
schestowitzI'm not sure Canonical is hiringMar 31 01:41
taconewhat did he say ?Mar 31 01:41
taconeyes, it's hiring.Mar 31 01:41
schestowitz"They're working on it"Mar 31 01:41
taconebut slowly.Mar 31 01:41
taconewell, most hires are the one you don't seeMar 31 01:41
schestowitzSUSE has 2 teamsMar 31 01:41
schestowitzThe Boston(ish) teamMar 31 01:41
taconethey put together a design compartmentMar 31 01:41
schestowitzAnd the German teamMar 31 01:41
schestowitzGerman team does LinuxMar 31 01:41
taconebut no one knows who they are, or at least, not me.Mar 31 01:41
schestowitzUS team does Microsoft poisonwareMar 31 01:42
schestowitzSo the Germans make good Linux, kernel, etcMar 31 01:42
taconeand they hire brMar 31 01:42
taconebut as for the engineers, they're quite slowly paced.Mar 31 01:42
schestowitzThen de Icaza and his losers come and put poison on top and sing about how glorious Ballmer is...Mar 31 01:42
schestowitzSo it's a good thing they are a long distance apartMar 31 01:42
balzacI was rooting for John Schwarz from Sun to pull things together thereMar 31 01:42
schestowitzNovell does nothing to SuSE (old S.u.S.E.) by ruin it for MS bribesMar 31 01:43
schestowitz$100m was the last bribeMar 31 01:43
schestowitz"Poison Linux, get cookie"Mar 31 01:43
balzacSun should hire up some of these SuSE devsMar 31 01:43
balzacget more serious about GNU & LinuxMar 31 01:43
balzacand have a debian-based enterprise distroMar 31 01:43
schestowitzWon't happenMar 31 01:44
schestowitzSUN gave upMar 31 01:44
schestowitzThey put themselves up to be shoppedMar 31 01:44
schestowitzSo they won't gobble up or develop anythingMar 31 01:44
balzacwhy, because they're too emotionally attached to their proprietary unix legacy?Mar 31 01:44
_Hicham_Solaris is deadMar 31 01:45
balzachell, they should've released as much of it as legally possible under GPLv3Mar 31 01:45
balzacand called Torvald's bluffMar 31 01:45
balzacThe CDDL just isn't sexyMar 31 01:45
balzacthe opensolaris community reminds me of an embittered former soviet republicMar 31 01:46
balzacthat's how I felt about the solaris bureaucracy in this company I worked atMar 31 01:46
balzacthere were even some old grumpy guys unix from russia and eastern europeMar 31 01:47
balzacI told one of my contacts there that their company is suffering "bureaucratic sclerosis"Mar 31 01:49
balzacI know how to sweet-talk em. I bet they'll be offering me a big signing bonus any time now...Mar 31 01:50
schestowitzBalrog: he gave the Coke spielMar 31 01:50
schestowitzAsking if it was indeed PepsiMar 31 01:50
schestowitzbalzac: yes, solaris is like some buried nuclear missile from the 60sMar 31 01:52
balzachehehMar 31 01:52
balzacbunch of crusty guys, still manning their stations in the missile siloMar 31 01:52
balzacThe first couple of phone meetings I had, they were talking about their "big iron" and "production environment" and policiesMar 31 01:54
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balzacbut Sun doesn't maintain their repositories nearly as well as CanonicalMar 31 01:55
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balzacso it's no picnic trying to get simple things done. I was somewhat more ignorant of sysadmin tasks, but I wasn't there as a sysadmin.Mar 31 01:55
balzacI was practically "hazed" by the unix bureaucracy because they found it hard to just get a proper webserver going.Mar 31 01:56
schestowitzBalrog: can you do noise cancellation for background sound?Mar 31 01:56
Balrog_asking me?Mar 31 01:56
Balrog_no, unfortunatelyMar 31 01:56
schestowitzbalzac: that's why they call it Big IronMar 31 01:56
Balrog_he used a mic, which led to echoMar 31 01:56
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schestowitzThat's OKMar 31 01:57
schestowitzCaused you asked for feedback/suggestionMar 31 01:57
Balrog_if you know of a good filter (preferably one in mplayer) let me knowMar 31 01:57
Balrog_yeah it's okMar 31 01:57
balzacI should be running their IT departmentMar 31 01:57
Balrog_whose it dep't?Mar 31 01:58
balzacsome large company in manhattan which will remain namelessMar 31 01:58
Balrog_heh okMar 31 01:58
balzacschestowitz: I wish I had contacts inside RedhatMar 31 01:59
oiaohmI wish I had a contact inside Redhat who liked me.Mar 31 02:00
balzachonestly, i'm not completely opposed to the idea of RHCE for myselfMar 31 02:00
oiaohmGot one that does not like me.Mar 31 02:00
balzacbut some days I'm more cantankerous than othersMar 31 02:00
oiaohmYou sound like me balzacMar 31 02:01
Balrog_RHCE?Mar 31 02:01
balzacso I say things bad anti-corporate things which would would make people's eyes tear up for a secondMar 31 02:01
balzacRedhat certified engineer, if I got their acronym rightMar 31 02:02
oiaohmYep you got it right balzac I was just trying to type it.Mar 31 02:02
Balrog_ah ok.Mar 31 02:02
balzacThe McDonalds comparisons were probably regrettable in retrospectMar 31 02:02
balzacI was pushing for Redhat in this company for their transaction serversMar 31 02:03
oiaohmComparing redhat secuirty defects to windows ones was my regrettable in retrospectMar 31 02:03
Balrog_explain.Mar 31 02:03
oiaohmYou are aware that X11 in every before current Fedora runs as root Balrog_Mar 31 02:04
Balrog_that's not good!!!Mar 31 02:04
balzacI just don't know if I'd end up feeling like a got in the wrong lane while Canonical is growing quickly and I started trying to get socially integrated with Redhat people...Mar 31 02:04
Balrog_is that necessary?Mar 31 02:04
oiaohmIt was necessary due to poor design of X11Mar 31 02:05
Balrog_ah.Mar 31 02:05
balzacfor that matter, I'd be forsaking my neutrality as a consultant if I got a particular corporate certificationMar 31 02:05
oiaohmI basically told them that they should not be claiming to be providing a secure desktop until they fixed X11 because the secuirty was basically just as stuffed as windows in GUI mode.Mar 31 02:05
balzacI should just remain unaffiliated and try to build my consulting businessMar 31 02:05
oiaohmNot a wise line to use.Mar 31 02:06
oiaohmTrue but still not a wise line to use.Mar 31 02:06
balzacIt's good to be diplomaticMar 31 02:06
balzacor else you can end up like the guy in office space who got his stapler confiscated and his cubicle moved to the basementMar 31 02:07
oiaohmOne of my friends decriptins of me is.  If being diplomatic was using a small jewellers hammer.   Normally not diplomatic would be a sledhammer and that I am a building leveling recking ball.Mar 31 02:08
oiaohmIts about true.  I normally say then think opps.Mar 31 02:08
balzacoiaohm: I would offer you an unprofessional prescription of xanaxMar 31 02:09
oiaohmIn the work I do being diplomatic don't help.Mar 31 02:09
balzacjkMar 31 02:09
oiaohmIts more jump now.Mar 31 02:10
oiaohmI get pulled out when anyone asks for a 100 percent truthful answer.Mar 31 02:12
oiaohmMost of the time they regret it.Mar 31 02:12
balzacthat's a setupMar 31 02:12
oiaohmRare cases they get prase for a good job.Mar 31 02:12
balzacthe guys who summon you to be asked for the sincere response are mitigating their risk by delegating it to youMar 31 02:13
balzacyou should ask them why they're asking youMar 31 02:13
oiaohmFunny part custommers normally ask for me as lead next time.Mar 31 02:14
oiaohmMost of them are after the 100 percent truth no suger coating.Mar 31 02:14
balzaclead dev/engineer or managerMar 31 02:14
oiaohmSecuirty consultant and network designer.Mar 31 02:14
balzacdo you get to delegate tasks?Mar 31 02:15
oiaohmYep.Mar 31 02:15
balzacthat's importantMar 31 02:15
balzacI got bogged down by not having the percieved stature to delegate muchMar 31 02:16
oiaohmSecuirty being diplomatic with really don't help.Mar 31 02:16
oiaohmEither it working or it broken.Mar 31 02:16
balzacI should learn more security stuff specifically in my sysadmin studiesMar 31 02:16
balzaccredibility in IT security can't be attained overnightMar 31 02:18
schestowitzI was just thinking, what's the likelihood of some WIndows nutter tossing an egg at RMS at a talk?Mar 31 02:18
balzacthat would be hilariousMar 31 02:18
schestowitzWould he duck like a sissy Ballmer (behind a table)?Mar 31 02:19
balzacif it doesn't happen, it should be staged by an agent provocateur in a suitMar 31 02:19
balzacjk, eggs can actually be pretty bad to get hit byMar 31 02:19
balzacI'd duck "like a sissy"Mar 31 02:19
oiaohmHere goes my day off againMar 31 02:20
oiaohmWhy do things have to screw up when I have a rostered day off.Mar 31 02:20
balzacI thought it was amusing when that M$ guy won the auction for the stuffed GNUMar 31 02:20
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balzachttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v...  <-- this is what RMS would do to an egg throwerMar 31 02:24
balzacmy sense of humor needs to be refined a bit. it's pretty terrible.Mar 31 02:25
_Hicham_u have a great sense of humor balzac, and I like itMar 31 02:27
_Hicham_usually this room get warm when there is oiaohm and uMar 31 02:28
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...Mar 31 02:28
balzac_Hicham_: sounds like you're implying oiaohm and I should get a room together.Mar 31 02:29
balzacno thanks man.Mar 31 02:29
schestowitzHe said warmMar 31 02:29
schestowitzNot "hot and heavy"Mar 31 02:30
balzacI laughed out loud ad that eggingMar 31 02:30
balzache popped off like a true irish peugelistMar 31 02:30
balzacnevermind, he's a limey old britMar 31 02:31
_Hicham_balzac : u went really farMar 31 02:31
_Hicham_basically, oiaohm is a radical personMar 31 02:32
balzacit's traditional for people of irish descent to talk trash about british, and traditional for americans as wellMar 31 02:32
_Hicham_and u, u are rather pragmaticMar 31 02:32
balzacand scots hate to be mistaken for britsMar 31 02:32
balzacoiaohm is probably a toothless beer-swilling aussieMar 31 02:33
schestowitzWhat?!?!Mar 31 02:33
_Hicham_balzac : how do u know?Mar 31 02:34
balzacwhite australians are the least classyMar 31 02:34
balzacnew zealanders have more classMar 31 02:34
balzacit's just a jokeMar 31 02:34
_Hicham_balzac : oiaohm will get really mad if he heard thatMar 31 02:34
_Hicham_:DMar 31 02:34
balzacwell, suppose I call him crocodile dundee?Mar 31 02:34
balzacput another shrimp on the barbie, mate! Outback Steakhouse! Bloomin' Onion!Mar 31 02:35
balzacit's the xanax talkingMar 31 02:35
_Hicham_he will lose all of his internal dataMar 31 02:35
balzaccore dumpMar 31 02:35
balzacsomeone will have to save the log file for himMar 31 02:35
_Hicham_and there will be no one to recover that dataMar 31 02:35
balzacamericans are the butt of british humor, and irish as wellMar 31 02:35
balzacAussies are funny, they call women "sheilas"Mar 31 02:36
_Hicham_british people don't have a sense of humorMar 31 02:36
schestowitzOh, he left...Mar 31 02:36
_Hicham_except Roy maybeMar 31 02:36
schestowitzI thought he was still hee.Mar 31 02:36
schestowitz*hereMar 31 02:36
balzacRoy, I'm not worried if he sees the logfileMar 31 02:37
balzache was talking trash about AmericansMar 31 02:37
schestowitzbalzac: so stop this nonsenseMar 31 02:37
balzacwell, that's what he getsMar 31 02:37
schestowitzIt serves no purposeMar 31 02:37
balzacyou know i'm not at all seriousMar 31 02:37
_Hicham_Roy : balzac is just kiddingMar 31 02:37
balzaci would apologize if he asked me toMar 31 02:37
_Hicham_Roy : stop being seriousMar 31 02:37
_Hicham_Roy : i know british people are seriousMar 31 02:38
balzacthe bloomin onion had to be the most stinging jokeMar 31 02:38
_Hicham_Roy : people like balzac are fundamental in ur campaignMar 31 02:38
_Hicham_u can't win without balzacMar 31 02:38
schestowitz_Hicham_: I knowMar 31 02:38
balzacaustralians are cool as hell, but quite a lot of the credit goes to native australian culture affecting those of european descentMar 31 02:38
schestowitzBut nonetheless it can be miscomprehendedMar 31 02:39
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_Hicham_well, oiaohm know us allMar 31 02:39
balzacexcept that Rupert Murdoch sucks and so did John HowardMar 31 02:40
balzacRudd seems coolMar 31 02:40
_Hicham_there is nothing to worry aboutMar 31 02:40
_Hicham_we are all cool RoyMar 31 02:41
_Hicham_it is just that sometimes we need to jokeMar 31 02:41
balzacWhen I make class-humor at the expense of Australians, it's white australians I'm making fun of.Mar 31 02:41
_Hicham_Roy is silentMar 31 02:43
_Hicham_maybe he is madMar 31 02:43
schestowitzNo, just going to bedMar 31 02:44
schestowitzDone posting the links for todayMar 31 02:44
schestowitzgnMar 31 02:44
balzaclater royMar 31 02:44
balzacplease put in a good word with tienman for meMar 31 02:44
_Hicham_good night RoyMar 31 02:45
_Hicham_balzac : did u upset oiaohm?Mar 31 02:45
balzacI won't know until someone gives him the log from tonightMar 31 02:47
balzacIf he can't laugh about it, I'll apologize, but I'll still be happy tell him he's wrong about this or that.Mar 31 02:48
balzaclike his criticism of the GCCMar 31 02:49
balzacsome of his criticism is useful, but some of it is offered without any follow-up on what to do about itMar 31 02:51
_Hicham_he criticizes GCC a lot, yesMar 31 02:55
_Hicham_he want radical changes in GCCMar 31 02:55
balzacyeah, well that one by accomplished by "angstivism"Mar 31 02:57
balzacI told him last time that technical competence is not the only key, it's also the degree to which you embrace the philosophy of a given project.Mar 31 02:57
balzacHe agreed and thought it wasn't good, but I think that's how it should be.Mar 31 03:00
balzacIf I had an important project under my control and a guy was offering great code, but challenging the founding principles of the project, I would say "thank you for your ideas, but I cannot accept your code".Mar 31 03:01
_Hicham_oiaohm doesn't think like thatMar 31 03:01
_Hicham_he likes whatever worksMar 31 03:02
balzacBecause then he would begin to leverage his code commits for the purpose of changing the project's direction to what he has in mindMar 31 03:02
balzacwell, he isn't very excited about the GNU visionMar 31 03:02
balzache is predicting the demise of the GNU project, again and againMar 31 03:02
balzacI saw an old smart unix guy on a mailing list heavily criticising the GNU project's documentationMar 31 03:03
balzache made some valid points, but he was so filled with contempt for the current state of things, I doubt he was embracedMar 31 03:04
balzacYou can only ask people to relinquish so much of their dignity to your criticism if you expect them to use it directlyMar 31 03:05
balzacego and social stature are worth something as wellMar 31 03:05
_Hicham_oiaohm just thinks differentMar 31 03:08
_Hicham_he just seen a lot of events I thinkMar 31 03:08
_Hicham_that is whyMar 31 03:08
twitterI found something useful in MiniM$FT's blog after all http://slashdot.org/~twitter...Mar 31 03:10
twitterupdating the death watch.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/j...Mar 31 03:13
twittergnMar 31 03:13
_Hicham_are u still here balzac?Mar 31 03:33
balzacyoMar 31 03:33
balzacI'm having a problem getting my ssh keep alive workingMar 31 03:34
balzaci'm a little bit pissed abou itMar 31 03:34
balzacabout itMar 31 03:34
qdev06/29/2007 - GPL3 negates the Novell Patent Deal.Mar 31 03:39
qdevdoes gpl3 really negate that deal?Mar 31 03:39
qdev10/23 - Russia moves all schools to GNU/Linux. This is what they said they would do when M$ sued and threatened school teacher with jail for "Piracy".Mar 31 03:41
qdevthat's actually not trueMar 31 03:42
qdevschools still buy windows, 'cause educational plan almost states that you gotta teach windowsMar 31 03:43
qdevlol, if everything is like described there in the deathwatch, m$ should be already deadMar 31 03:52
balzachow strangeMar 31 03:52
balzacqdev: that's what I love about BNMar 31 03:53
qdevwhat's bn?Mar 31 03:53
balzacThere's blood in water! Look's like meat's back on the menu boys!Mar 31 03:53
balzacBoycottNovell.comMar 31 03:53
qdevahMar 31 03:53
balzacI'm just dying to get some of that revenue that Microsoft is enjoyingMar 31 03:54
balzacjust a little nibble of their market-shareMar 31 03:54
qdevi read m$ fired plenty of developers alreadyMar 31 03:55
balzacsorry for the poor slobsMar 31 03:55
qdevwtf is writing win7 thenMar 31 03:55
balzacI'm sorry that their educational institutions gave them such limited curriculumMar 31 03:55
balzacsorry their company insists on using such archaic licensesMar 31 03:55
qdeveducation in russia is effed up nowadaysMar 31 03:55
balzacsorry to hear thatMar 31 03:57
balzacis that where you are?Mar 31 03:57
qdevyeahMar 31 03:57
qdevhttp://www.w3schools.com/browsers/brows...Mar 31 03:57
balzacthat's not badMar 31 03:58
balzacFF was less than 5% not long ago, now they're above 21% internationallyMar 31 03:59
balzacit's the tipping point - your first 10% is harder than the next 40%Mar 31 03:59
qdevi just don't get which browser people use worldwideMar 31 04:00
balzaconce you're beyond %30 market-share, you've probably already gone past half way, because it accelerates after thatMar 31 04:00
qdevwtf it can be sane to use ieMar 31 04:00
balzacFF is the oneMar 31 04:00
balzacit's the best for developers and the most innovative for usersMar 31 04:00
balzaccuring the years-old problem of media codecs wars from proprietary software vendorsMar 31 04:01
qdevi know, have ie banned at home by firewallMar 31 04:01
balzacFF3.1 - ogg theora video supportMar 31 04:01
balzacbookmarks managed by sqliteMar 31 04:01
balzacstrong SVG supportMar 31 04:02
balzacgreat plugin-architectureMar 31 04:02
balzacthe gold standard GNU GPL licenseMar 31 04:02
balzacand it's the cavalry, leading the charge, the point of the phalanx which is breaking through the impenetrable wall of Microsoft monopolyMar 31 04:03
balzacGNU-power!Mar 31 04:04
qdevi will personally appreciate moment when ie hits 10% to never rise againMar 31 04:04
qdev'cause it's kinda should-never-existed browserMar 31 04:05
balzacyeahMar 31 04:05
_Hicham_I just finished rebranding Iceweasel and IcedoveMar 31 04:06
balzacwell, Marc Andreesen from Netscape said they were going to defeat MicrosoftMar 31 04:06
_Hicham_now I have my Firefox and Thunderbird artwork backMar 31 04:06
balzacso Microsoft stepped on Netscape like a cockroachMar 31 04:06
balzaccoolMar 31 04:06
balzacnow Microsoft is being eaten aliveMar 31 04:07
balzacmaybe that metaphor is a little too colorfulMar 31 04:10
balzaclet's just say their capital and market-share on decliningMar 31 04:10
qdevit's better to celebrate when m$ market share is an obvious lossMar 31 04:15
balzacit is obviousMar 31 04:16
balzacIE is being devoured by Mozilla FFMar 31 04:16
balzacthat is a crucial component - the interface of the user to the internetMar 31 04:16
balzacFF defeating IE is going to break their control of their users' perceptionsMar 31 04:17
balzacthereby causing them to lose everything elseMar 31 04:17
balzacby the time Microsoft abandons their archaic licenses and exorbitant prices, it will be far too lateMar 31 04:17
balzacplus they have to worry about such a sudden loss of share-holder confidence, that people get paranoid and call it a ponzi-scheme with too much imaginary value derived from creative accountingMar 31 04:18
balzacMicrosoft could go down like the soviet union in a relatively short period of timeMar 31 04:18
qdevsoviet union went to it about 70 yearsMar 31 04:20
qdevi hope m$ doesn't live that longMar 31 04:21
balzacqdev: the point is, it happened very quickly at the endMar 31 04:21
balzacthe berlin wall came down and everything unraveled in a short period of time after thatMar 31 04:21
balzacIE losing to FF is like the fall of the Berlin WallMar 31 04:21
balzacso the 21% international marketshare of Firefox means that the wall has been breachedMar 31 04:22
balzacand the pace of growth of FF is only acceleratingMar 31 04:22
balzaclook at a graph and you'll seeMar 31 04:22
qdevi doubt that it's 21, 30-40 most likelyMar 31 04:22
balzacsome places in Europe, it's over 50%Mar 31 04:23
balzacI read somewhereMar 31 04:23
qdevit would be good if china accepted gnu/linux at a government levelMar 31 04:23
balzacyeah, I lobbied for it with a chinese entrepreneur when I was thereMar 31 04:26
balzache had high communist party officials he knewMar 31 04:26
balzacBad software makes me want to blow a gasketMar 31 04:27
balzacbad software really makes the veins in my temples throbMar 31 04:27
balzacI get really pissed at bad software nowadays. I'm sick of having to support IE for my websits.Mar 31 04:27
balzacI even get pissed at GPL-licensed software when it doesn't work as expected.Mar 31 04:29
balzacI get pissed at bad or incomplete documentation, incompatibilities, etc.Mar 31 04:30
balzacBut proprietary software is just funny, just a bad joke being played on consumers.Mar 31 04:30
_Hicham_China doesn't use Linux?Mar 31 04:36
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balzacI'm annoying my friends, both on-line and off-lineMar 31 05:03
balzacit must be the combination of aderrall and xanaxMar 31 05:05
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Omar87Hi allMar 31 05:23
Omar87schestowitz: I was just enjoying reading your latest posts on BN.Mar 31 05:23
Omar87They're amazing! :DMar 31 05:24
Omar87“I’m going to f—ing kill Google.” ~ Steve Ballmer --->> "Actually, you're going to f---ing kiss my a--." ~ My response to him.Mar 31 05:27
Omar87“Google’s not a real company. It’s a house of cards.” ~ Steve Ballmer --->> "Yeah, f---ing right." ~ My response to him.Mar 31 05:29
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balzachahaMar 31 05:45
balzacgotta love steve ballmerMar 31 05:45
balzache's one funny guyMar 31 05:45
balzacand nobody can tell him he's wrong or he'll probably scare the crap out of themMar 31 05:46
balzacbut those two weasels from google are too much for the bald, bewildered ballmerMar 31 05:47
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schestowitzheyMar 31 08:48
MinceRhayMar 31 08:54
schestowitzI'll do some posts soon.Mar 31 08:55
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schestowitzBeranger is back on Linux: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2...Mar 31 10:45
schestowitzhttp://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/20... http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/03/25...Mar 31 10:46
schestowitzHis whole blog seems to be just about GNU/Linux. He couldn't help it and he ran back to momma Linux.Mar 31 10:47
MinceRlolMar 31 10:48
MinceRlet me guess, he won't write a post explaining how windows or whatever he went back crying to just didn't cut it after allMar 31 10:49
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schestowitzMinceR: no, that would make the poster a "loser"Mar 31 11:02
schestowitzMaybe he had a chance to see what a turd Windows is for everyday useMar 31 11:03
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oiaohmI kinda annoyed him from the start of his windows cycle.Mar 31 11:38
oiaohmReally did not like the point that after a while using windows faults of Linux would not seam that bad.Mar 31 11:38
oiaohmNice we are staring to see MS drop departments they don't think is important.Mar 31 11:43
oiaohmQuestion is how long until they get back to the important stuff.Mar 31 11:43
MinceRif he went back to linux, he certainly did see what a turd windows isMar 31 11:51
MinceRthe lifecycle of ensemble studios was sadMar 31 11:51
MinceRthey went well, then m$ bought them and then m$ killed themMar 31 11:51
MinceReven though they didn't even compete with m$.Mar 31 11:51
oiaohmProblem is I have seen the s cycle of getting sick of lInux going to windows with hope.Mar 31 11:52
oiaohmI did it once.Mar 31 11:52
oiaohmNo way doing it twice.Mar 31 11:52
schestowitzWhat about Mac OS?Mar 31 11:54
schestowitzSay goodbye to Xen yet? http://boycottnovell.com/2009...Mar 31 11:54
MinceRmacos isn't even a contender :>Mar 31 11:55
MinceR(unless all you need is an appliance, not a computer)Mar 31 11:55
schestowitzAnd who on Earth would touch Mono after the TomTom case? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/3...Mar 31 11:55
oiaohmI told beranger at one point he would be would be happier off with a Mac.Mar 31 11:55
oiaohmI guess you have not been to recent Linux confs schestowitz.Mar 31 11:56
schestowitzIn Romania, do they even have Apple shops?Mar 31 11:56
oiaohmSome days the apple laptops walking around there out number every other kind.Mar 31 11:56
schestowitzWith bad hardware (and no choice of hardware), the last thing one needs are these running expensesMar 31 11:56
MinceRschestowitz: there are lots of idiots who would, i'm afraidMar 31 11:56
oiaohmXen is not dead yet.Mar 31 11:56
MinceRxen could be forked if anyone caredMar 31 11:56
oiaohmEveryone keeps on pointing to the wrong think to kill Xen.Mar 31 11:57
MinceRnenolod said he would if he had to :)Mar 31 11:57
oiaohmIts not kvm it is Lguest.Mar 31 11:57
oiaohmthink/thingMar 31 11:57
MinceRlguest? never heard of itMar 31 11:57
*MinceR checksMar 31 11:57
oiaohmIt is in the main Linux kernel MinceRMar 31 11:58
MinceRi don't quite understand what it doesMar 31 11:58
MinceRhow is it different from KVM?Mar 31 11:58
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oiaohmhttp://beta.linuxfoundation.org/...Mar 31 11:59
oiaohmLguest does not need cpu support MinceRMar 31 11:59
oiaohmInstead is exactly like Xen paravirtualisation mode.Mar 31 11:59
MinceRoh, so it runs xen-compatible paravirtualized guests?Mar 31 11:59
oiaohmkvm lguest and qemu use the same paravirtualization methods.Mar 31 12:00
oiaohmXen is the odd ball out.Mar 31 12:00
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oiaohmlguest supporting kernels can also boot without being contained where xen ones cannot.Mar 31 12:01
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ToreadorVampireOh haiMar 31 12:02
MinceRicMar 31 12:02
MinceRhay ToreadorVampire :)Mar 31 12:02
ToreadorVampireSo this is where you hang out MinceR :)Mar 31 12:02
MinceRthis is one of the 51 channels i hang out in, yes :>Mar 31 12:02
ToreadorVampireHehMar 31 12:02
MinceRthis lguest stuff looks interesting, i wonder when libvirt is going to start supporting itMar 31 12:03
ToreadorVampireYeah, but I didn't have you on freenode yet :)Mar 31 12:03
schestowitzHi, ToreadorVampire Mar 31 12:05
schestowitzoiaohm: Xen is messyMar 31 12:05
schestowitzNot elegantly combined with LinuxMar 31 12:05
schestowitzthw whole dom0 debateMar 31 12:05
ToreadorVampireYo ... mainly just poking my head in ... semi-interested in the whole "mono patent trap" (since I'm a mono user), although not 100% sure how worried about it really need to be ...Mar 31 12:07
oiaohmLot of the Linux kernel developers think Xen should just come into alignment with the virtio drivers.Mar 31 12:08
oiaohmMono is a patent trap.  The patent ensurance on it is only 5 years for patents that could last over 20.Mar 31 12:09
oiaohmfirst patent/protection.Mar 31 12:10
oiaohmIts not like following the .net path is required.Mar 31 12:10
ToreadorVampireMmm, well - when it came to "new-school high-level oop language choice" I picked C#Mar 31 12:12
ToreadorVampireSo mono looked really attractive to meMar 31 12:12
schestowitzIt's a bad habitMar 31 12:12
schestowitzLike getting attracted to smokingMar 31 12:12
schestowitzThe cost entailsMar 31 12:12
oiaohmVala is also a great high level oop language.Mar 31 12:13
oiaohmWith faster performance that .net can offer.Mar 31 12:13
ToreadorVampireMmm, well - if the patent trap is scary enough, maybe I will look into moving to python ...Mar 31 12:13
MinceRso is c++ :>Mar 31 12:13
oiaohmVala runs running around mono really.Mar 31 12:13
oiaohmDarm I Have word drop.Mar 31 12:13
oiaohmVala runs rings around  mono really.Mar 31 12:14
oiaohmhttp://www.parrot.org/languages  For a engine running languages .net is not even that powerful.Mar 31 12:14
oiaohmPeople refocus look whats around .net is not great.Mar 31 12:14
MinceRhow's LLVM going?Mar 31 12:16
oiaohmStill improving.Mar 31 12:17
oiaohmReally needs lot more language front ends.Mar 31 12:17
oiaohmPut a parrot front end in llvm would be interesting.Mar 31 12:17
MinceR:)Mar 31 12:19
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MinceRi wonder how much would CIL over LLVM and .net -> parrot avoid the patent trapMar 31 12:22
oiaohmThat is the thing everyone overlooks.Mar 31 12:22
oiaohmCIL is simpler to reverse and rebuilt the applications.Mar 31 12:23
oiaohmIts a case of developers being tricked into no more secrets.Mar 31 12:23
MinceRwhat does everyone overlook? the possibility of doing so, the fact that it's still vulnerable or the fact that the patents are avoided this way?Mar 31 12:24
oiaohmSimple to avoid.Mar 31 12:24
oiaohmYou can rebuild the applications in  patent free country.Mar 31 12:24
oiaohmC# and the languages using CIL really don't have any new features.Mar 31 12:25
MinceRthat still prevents you from selling them in the usa, doesn't it?Mar 31 12:25
oiaohmOther than the back end engine.Mar 31 12:25
oiaohmReally no MinceRMar 31 12:25
MinceRalso, i don't know how much the EU and Hungary is free of sw patents nowMar 31 12:25
oiaohmCloning.Mar 31 12:25
oiaohmIf you can document how an application works you can build a clone.Mar 31 12:26
oiaohmCompared to ASM CIL is a walk in the park to disasm.Mar 31 12:26
oiaohmClosed source guys are bacically going to wake up MS has backstab them.Mar 31 12:27
MinceR"lguest (pronounced rʌs.ti'vai.zər)" :DMar 31 12:27
oiaohmLeaving them in a place open sourcing there code and not open sourcing there code make basically no difference to the protection they have.Mar 31 12:28
oiaohm.Net trap is way more than patents.Mar 31 12:28
oiaohmTeach students C# so students don't have the skills to build a full OS independant to .net was MS idea.Mar 31 12:30
oiaohmVala proves it possiable to build a C# releated language that builds to native code.Mar 31 12:31
oiaohmSooner or latter MS will have rebelion form inside there .net users.Mar 31 12:31
benJImanc# can be built to native code too. See sharpos.Mar 31 12:32
benJImanOr singularity.Mar 31 12:33
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MinceRanything that doesn't need its own OS?Mar 31 12:36
oiaohmsharpos and singularity both are depending on ahead of time building.Mar 31 12:38
oiaohmThe problem with both is .net is really a limited struct OS.Mar 31 12:39
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oiaohmSo neither sharpos or singularity are truly independant of it.Mar 31 12:39
benJImanWhta do you mean by "limited struct OS"?Mar 31 12:40
oiaohmTake C for example.  It design can scale to any bit width processor.Mar 31 12:40
DaemonFCWhat sucks is that most any distribution ships with MonoMar 31 12:40
oiaohm.net not so much.Mar 31 12:40
DaemonFCso you usually have to remove it by handMar 31 12:40
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oiaohmYou have to remember 16 bit wide processors are still used in some places.Mar 31 12:41
oiaohmC advantage for OS coding is it freedoms to be altered to match the platform you are using.   Even droping the ideas of any common functions and exception handling if that is more suitable.Mar 31 12:45
DaemonFChttp://www.foxbusiness.com/story/...Mar 31 12:46
DaemonFCFixed News apparently loves MonoMar 31 12:46
schestowitzFixed :-)Mar 31 12:47
schestowitzGotta keep people's control of computers out of this public arena...Mar 31 12:47
schestowitzGet them addicted to MonioMar 31 12:47
schestowitzThen pass them to .NETMar 31 12:47
DaemonFCif Fox News tells you the sky is blue, you better damned well go out and make sureMar 31 12:48
schestowitzEnvelope the resistors.Mar 31 12:48
DaemonFCB-)Mar 31 12:48
DaemonFCThey're the Pravda of the Republican PartyMar 31 12:48
DaemonFCmasquerading as a news networkMar 31 12:48
schestowitzIt's called News CorpMar 31 12:48
schestowitzNews does not mean "truth"Mar 31 12:48
schestowitzIt means new somethingMar 31 12:49
schestowitzLike NEW talking pointMar 31 12:49
schestowitzOr NEW pr[opaganda]Mar 31 12:49
DaemonFCPravda was the name of the Soviet state news agencyMar 31 12:49
DaemonFC:)Mar 31 12:49
schestowitzFOX NEWS =  new from FOXMar 31 12:49
schestowitzFOX NEWS =  new from MurdochMar 31 12:49
DaemonFCwhat's hilarious is that the same company that runs crap kissing the ass of the Republicans also runs things like Family Guy on their other stationsMar 31 12:50
schestowitzAnorher university has just sold out: http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cu...Mar 31 12:50
DaemonFCnothing like selling to both sidesMar 31 12:50
schestowitzzer0c00l: see this oneMar 31 12:50
DaemonFCthat's nothing I'm sureMar 31 12:50
zer0c00lyesMar 31 12:50
DaemonFCMicrosoft sells Windows and Office for $5Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00lschestowitz, which oneMar 31 12:51
DaemonFCin the university stores in IndianaMar 31 12:51
zer0c00lokMar 31 12:51
zer0c00lhttp://www.upiasia.com/Society_Cul...Mar 31 12:51
zer0c00lschestowitz, lookingMar 31 12:51
DaemonFCI bought a copy of Windows and Office in the student storeMar 31 12:51
DaemonFCand ebayed themMar 31 12:52
zer0c00llolMar 31 12:52
DaemonFCMicrosoft bought me a few credit hours B-)Mar 31 12:52
zer0c00lDaemonFC: you mean those keys are software?Mar 31 12:52
DaemonFCthey sell you the disc + serialMar 31 12:53
DaemonFCit says Student Edition on itMar 31 12:53
DaemonFCbut it was really Windows XP ProMar 31 12:53
zer0c00lhere they give keys for freeMar 31 12:53
zer0c00ldisk we have to downloadMar 31 12:53
DaemonFCbahMar 31 12:53
zer0c00lbut with ELMS there is no need for download :(Mar 31 12:53
oiaohmThe disk is 5 dollars.Mar 31 12:53
DaemonFCsomeone asked me to try Windows 7Mar 31 12:53
oiaohmLicence is nothing.Mar 31 12:54
DaemonFCI told them I didn't think it was worth a blank DVDMar 31 12:54
oiaohmMS is really trying to hold on.Mar 31 12:54
oiaohmAs makers of machines start demarding same kinds of deals MS profit streams are at risk.Mar 31 12:54
schestowitzMicrosoft is just dumingMar 31 12:54
schestowitzWhere is the business model?Mar 31 12:55
schestowitzThey have none, I thinkMar 31 12:55
DaemonFCwell, Linux set the price point of the netbookMar 31 12:55
schestowitzThey admit to investors that it's killing them.. sub-notebooks in particularMar 31 12:55
oiaohmIdea is kill Linux.Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFCand Microsoft must give Windows for freeMar 31 12:55
oiaohmThen bring profit up.Mar 31 12:55
schestowitzWindows revenue fell sharply.Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFCto even have a presence thereMar 31 12:55
DaemonFCthe netbook will bleed MicrosoftMar 31 12:55
oiaohmDeath of Linux is not going to happen.Mar 31 12:55
DaemonFCand lead them into an unprofitable war of attritionMar 31 12:55
schestowitzoiaohm: they can't kill LinuxMar 31 12:55
schestowitzWatch PCLinuxOS 2009.1Mar 31 12:55
oiaohmUni's are not longer the power house of Linux.Mar 31 12:55
schestowitzLinux is aheadMar 31 12:56
schestowitzMicrosoft knows thisMar 31 12:56
zer0c00lbut microsoft cannot give windows for free of cost all the timeMar 31 12:56
schestowitzStaff exodus is tellingMar 31 12:56
zer0c00lbecause it will affect their business a lotMar 31 12:56
zer0c00l:PMar 31 12:56
oiaohmThey need trained suckers.Mar 31 12:56
schestowitzIt already does, so not "will"Mar 31 12:56
oiaohmIe students.Mar 31 12:56
schestowitzThey go into debtyMar 31 12:56
schestowitz*debtMar 31 12:56
DaemonFCzer0c00l: That's what I mean, if they give it away free on millions of netbooks, and the netbooks are causing sales of normal laptops to declineMar 31 12:56
oiaohmSo when boss asks them what software does X they answer Microsoft.Mar 31 12:56
DaemonFC:)Mar 31 12:57
schestowitzoiaohm: not bound to always workMar 31 12:57
schestowitzThey try to suffocate compettorsMar 31 12:57
DaemonFCthen they could lose 10-15% of their Windows incomeMar 31 12:57
schestowitzBut GNU/Linux is not a companyMar 31 12:57
*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFCjust because they can't sell Windows on netbooksMar 31 12:57
schestowitzoiaohm: you give them to much creditMar 31 12:57
schestowitzAs though they are winningMar 31 12:57
schestowitzIt's very much the oppositeMar 31 12:57
schestowitzHad they not dumped Windows, Linux would still dominate sub-notebooksMar 31 12:57
oiaohmThere dumping is based on the old ideas that use to work.Mar 31 12:57
DaemonFCwhich means they have to charge more for their other productsMar 31 12:57
DaemonFCwhich turns mroe customers offMar 31 12:58
schestowitzThat would ignite a chain reactionMar 31 12:58
schestowitzEnd game.Mar 31 12:58
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, like vs NetscapeMar 31 12:58
schestowitzOr BorlandMar 31 12:58
schestowitzBut these were COMPANIESMar 31 12:58
DaemonFCso Ubuntu *must* kill them with Netbook RemixMar 31 12:58
oiaohmDump hard into education and other markets sell in business.Mar 31 12:58
oiaohmProblem is business is starting to grow a free mind.Mar 31 12:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft has to dump Windows+Office on studentsMar 31 12:58
oiaohmYep.Mar 31 12:59


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