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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 20th, 2009 - Part 2



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schestowitzWho gets fireed for using Mysql? It's ORACLE! :-)Apr 20 13:37
oiaohmExactly.Apr 20 13:38
schestowitz"But boss, I told you MySQL is an Oracle product"Apr 20 13:38
oiaohmMysql quality in places has to go up.Apr 20 13:38
oiaohmOr it will give Oracle a black eye.Apr 20 13:38
schestowitzI like that.Apr 20 13:38
schestowitz"But boss, blame Oracle for the data loss. I told you MySQL is an Oracle product"Apr 20 13:39
schestowitzBy the way, I never found out why the Wiki DB in BN went titsup for the first time some months ago, then restored from BUApr 20 13:39
oiaohmSimple fact Oracle knows they cannot keep there current margins against enterpised db.Apr 20 13:39
oiaohmSupport contracts is money.Apr 20 13:40
schestowitzOracle reported good results actualltyApr 20 13:40
schestowitzShowing that Microsoft's pains are not universalApr 20 13:40
oiaohmOracle contracts are 5 years.Apr 20 13:40
oiaohmYep they will not be effected yet.Apr 20 13:40
schestowitzMicrosoft has disappointed investors since April 2008. That's 4 consecutive quarters now.Apr 20 13:40
oiaohmThe investers should be waking up.Apr 20 13:41
oiaohmMost IT companies are making profits.Apr 20 13:41
schestowitzMost?Apr 20 13:41
oiaohmMicrosoft and Novell are both sinking like a stone.Apr 20 13:41
schestowitzWhat IT company size?Apr 20 13:41
schestowitzThis is not  linear curve of scaleApr 20 13:41
schestowitzIt's like a hyperbole with few companies actually making big profitsApr 20 13:42
oiaohmNetbooks they are selling like hot cakes.Apr 20 13:42
schestowitzAnd many 1-man business getting noneApr 20 13:42
schestowitzoiaohm: at whose expense?Apr 20 13:42
oiaohmMicrosofts.Apr 20 13:42
schestowitzNo matter what the netbooks run, they hurt MSApr 20 13:42
schestowitzAnd 20-30% run LinuxApr 20 13:42
schestowitz(Globally)Apr 20 13:42
oiaohmIT support personally still have to configure them.Apr 20 13:42
oiaohmSo they get paid.Apr 20 13:42
oiaohmSales volume is making up for the lower price.Apr 20 13:43
schestowitzIT config is a nicheApr 20 13:43
schestowitzSortaApr 20 13:43
oiaohmSo shops not being hurt.Apr 20 13:43
schestowitzWell, what you count as IT doesn't necessarily account for producerApr 20 13:43
oiaohmIntel and amd are selling chips.Apr 20 13:43
schestowitzFOSS made producers differentApr 20 13:43
schestowitzIt makes it worthwhile for them to work in peer modeApr 20 13:43
schestowitzMaintainers sumbit patchesApr 20 13:43
schestowitzLike WordPress users and Linux users like oracleApr 20 13:44
schestowitzThey sell low-end chips nowApr 20 13:44
schestowitzOr they could lower the price of multi-cores which they doApr 20 13:44
oiaohmLot of 1-man businesses are not making profits because they are not running right.Apr 20 13:44
schestowitzElse they sell almost none anyway, except in servers (Google et al)Apr 20 13:44
oiaohmMore people with computers the more they screw them up.Apr 20 13:45
oiaohmSo more repair work.Apr 20 13:45
schestowitztacone for example is a web developerApr 20 13:45
schestowitzHe can deploy FOSS for peopleApr 20 13:45
schestowitzThat's how people make moneyApr 20 13:45
schestowitzThere's competition there from developing countries thoughApr 20 13:45
oiaohmWeb developers have taken a hit.Apr 20 13:45
oiaohmNot that bad.Apr 20 13:45
schestowitzI see many businesses in India that design and develop sites, but with FOSSApr 20 13:45
oiaohmMost of the IT market is not harmed.Apr 20 13:46
oiaohmMy main field is.Apr 20 13:46
oiaohmsecurity analyst  There is basically no jobs in it.Apr 20 13:47
schestowitzBut security needs are upApr 20 13:47
schestowitzCybercrime is upApr 20 13:47
oiaohmI know.Apr 20 13:47
oiaohmBusinesses are not paying.Apr 20 13:47
schestowitzEven you pal Microsoft spoke about it last weekApr 20 13:47
schestowitzoiaohm: they'll payApr 20 13:47
schestowitz[The other way]Apr 20 13:47
oiaohmYes I know.Apr 20 13:47
schestowitzThey'll pay in losses of data and secretsApr 20 13:47
oiaohmI am getting more datarecovery work.Apr 20 13:47
oiaohmFrom ones who did not pay for the secuirty in advance.Apr 20 13:48
oiaohmI am kinda a all rounder.Apr 20 13:48
oiaohmThis down turn is an annoyance.Apr 20 13:48
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/8... " Apple netbooks manufactured by Foxconn rumoured"Apr 20 13:48
schestowitzData recovery can't be offshoredApr 20 13:49
schestowitz"What Microsoft calls a “release candidate” is what everyone else calls a “beta”."Apr 20 13:50
schestowitzMicrosoft seems to be rushing out a product that can't be ready this yearApr 20 13:50
schestowitzVista SP2 (aka Vista7)Apr 20 13:50
taconethey have to change name.Apr 20 13:50
taconein a hurryApr 20 13:51
schestowitzMicro-soft?Apr 20 13:51
taconevista => w7.Apr 20 13:51
oiaohmBig problem of this downturn are companies that are not all rounders.Apr 20 13:52
schestowitzhttp://computershopper.com/s...Apr 20 13:52
taconealso they have to provide an excuse for a new version. (i.e. the toolbar)Apr 20 13:52
schestowitztacone: Mojav7Apr 20 13:52
taconei'm starting to think mark shuttleworth liking w7 was just a bluffApr 20 13:53
schestowitzkentma: BT wins Starbucks Wi-Fi deal < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... >Apr 20 13:53
schestowitztacone: nopeApr 20 13:53
schestowitzit was Gavin ClarkeApr 20 13:53
schestowitzPathetic trollApr 20 13:53
schestowitzMicrosoft er in El Reg IIRCApr 20 13:53
schestowitzUnless it came from more sourcesApr 20 13:53
schestowitzThey take words out of contextApr 20 13:53
schestowitzSee more recent interviewApr 20 13:53
taconei guess he said for real.Apr 20 13:53
schestowitzI'll find itApr 20 13:53
taconeno, it's ok.Apr 20 13:54
schestowitztacone: like Gates aid Vista SucksApr 20 13:54
taconei'm going out in a few moments.Apr 20 13:54
taconeyeah, but gates know that vista sucks.Apr 20 13:54
tacone;-)Apr 20 13:54
kentmaschestowitz: one wonders why T-mobile lost the deal.Apr 20 13:54
schestowitzBill Gates says "Vista Sucks" < http://www.youtube.com/watc... >Apr 20 13:54
kentmastill, I prefer coffee cost-a-lot :-)Apr 20 13:54
schestowitzThat was the headline Gizmodo used, IIRCApr 20 13:55
schestowitzThis video is from [h]omerApr 20 13:55
schestowitzShuttleworth: Windows 7 an Opportunity for Linux < http://www.internetnews.com/hardware/articl... > From a week agoApr 20 13:55
schestowitzSee?Apr 20 13:55
schestowitzShuttleworth has a hardon for Mac OS X, not Vista7Apr 20 13:56
schestowitzNow *that* is an issueApr 20 13:56
schestowitzHe's deceived by Sugar-coated BSDApr 20 13:56
schestowitzBSOD/BSApr 20 13:56
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oiaohmMS is feeling the clock ticking.Apr 20 14:00
oiaohmIf they cannot get the price of OS's up they are in trouble.Apr 20 14:00
oiaohmWindows 7 a flop.  MS could have big share holder problems.Apr 20 14:01
schestowitzI'm waiting to see MSFT's reaction to buy(ORCL,JAVA/SUNW). If Microsoft hater it, then it\'s good for Linux.Apr 20 14:02
schestowitzoiaohm: daemonfc gave us some more evidenceApr 20 14:02
schestowitzAs you may recall, Windows Vista7 hype is deadApr 20 14:02
schestowitzBased on last week's newApr 20 14:02
schestowitz*newsApr 20 14:02
schestowitzFrom 15 or so posts in the week beforehand there was a decline to about 5 last weekApr 20 14:03
schestowitzI wrote about it in IRCApr 20 14:03
schestowitzit's like a Google Trend thing -- but applies to news volume, not queriesApr 20 14:03
schestowitzVista has been wiped off the headlines since PDC 2008Apr 20 14:04
oiaohmMSFT reaction most likely not be much.Apr 20 14:04
oiaohmThinking MS requires Orcale to be good terms with them so they sell servers.Apr 20 14:04
schestowitzJG Ballard just passed away: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0...Apr 20 14:04
oiaohmThink about it if Orcale went all out with a marketing compain anti-MS how much damage could they do.Apr 20 14:05
oiaohmOrcale is trusted.Apr 20 14:05
schestowitzoiaohm:  Oracle deploys on Linux 80% of the time (2006 figures, IIRC) and maybe 90% at this stage, as seen recentlyApr 20 14:05
schestowitzThey release their crown jewel DB to Linux first, Windows laterApr 20 14:05
oiaohmOracle recommend Linux.Apr 20 14:05
schestowitzThe Oracle situation is probablty better for Linux than it would have been otherwise.Apr 20 14:06
oiaohmThey don't fully attack.  Last time MS made that mistake of wake sleeping dragon Oracle was in 1997Apr 20 14:06
oiaohmMS is not in as strong location now.Apr 20 14:07
oiaohmReally I do hope someone at MS has forgot.Apr 20 14:07
oiaohmI would love to see Oracle go after blood out of MS again.Apr 20 14:07
schestowitzOld video of Oracle's CEO on Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/0...Apr 20 14:08
oiaohmOracle deciding to hammer MS would be savage.Apr 20 14:09
oiaohmProblem for MS it would be all facts.Apr 20 14:09
schestowitzWhat do you mean by "all facts"?Apr 20 14:10
oiaohmOracle CEO shows they still have teeth.  Just does not send in the marketing department.Apr 20 14:10
schestowitzMicrosoft is actually more fearful of IBMApr 20 14:10
schestowitzWhat would be the IBM (Symphony) relationship with Oracle (OOo) and Novell (Go-OOXML)Apr 20 14:11
oiaohmThere are enough defects in Windows Oracle finds all the time to attack MS with.Apr 20 14:11
oiaohmIBM and Oracle have quite a good relationshipApr 20 14:11
schestowitz"Mark_Antony @schestowitz from a propoganda perspective the MySQL thing works, but how sympathetic will Oracle *actually* be to other DBs?"Apr 20 14:11
schestowitzoiaohm: they do?Apr 20 14:11
schestowitzNo evidence that I saq...Apr 20 14:11
schestowitz*sawApr 20 14:12
schestowitzIBM deploys Oracle too? It has its own varietyApr 20 14:12
oiaohmJoin supply contracts.Apr 20 14:12
oiaohmOracle provide OS and database Ibm provide the hardware.Apr 20 14:12
schestowitzBut IBM has its own proprietary DBsApr 20 14:13
schestowitzCisco has Postpth now BTWApr 20 14:13
schestowitzFighting against ExcahngeApr 20 14:13
oiaohmAlso with AIX support in Oracle.Apr 20 14:13
schestowitzOh yeah...Apr 20 14:13
schestowitzDoes Oracle deploy much on UNIX at all?Apr 20 14:13
schestowitzWhat about Solaris?Apr 20 14:13
schestowitzWell, obviouslyApr 20 14:14
schestowitzSun used to have no DBApr 20 14:14
oiaohmSolarias AIX   what ever HP version of Unix is.Apr 20 14:14
oiaohmBasically most Unix's.Apr 20 14:14
oiaohmOracle has not been seen as a competitor.Apr 20 14:14
oiaohmOracle is not going to be stupid with Solarias.Apr 20 14:15
schestowitzAh! Smell the freedom: Tory terror police were 'fishing' for Liberty < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... >Apr 20 14:15
schestowitzWhat about h/w, oiaohm Apr 20 14:16
schestowitzWill they keep SPARC alive?Apr 20 14:16
schestowitzWe need the Free chipsApr 20 14:16
oiaohmThat is the ? markApr 20 14:16
schestowitzEven as proof of concept or starting pointApr 20 14:16
oiaohmSo far they say they will.Apr 20 14:16
schestowitzoiaohm: didn't see itApr 20 14:17
oiaohmSparc have been great at particular workloads.Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzWhat about small devicesApr 20 14:17
schestowitzStorgae..Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzOracle in storage...Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzAnd Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzOh wait!Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzSun patents go to OIN now.Apr 20 14:17
oiaohmYep.Apr 20 14:17
schestowitzThat's greatApr 20 14:18
oiaohmOIN now becomes scary.Apr 20 14:18
schestowitzWell, kind of like the IV of LinuxApr 20 14:18
trmancoah crapApr 20 14:18
schestowitzMicrosoft has its share of trolls tooApr 20 14:18
trmancooracle buying Sun?Apr 20 14:18
schestowitztrmanco: yesApr 20 14:18
oiaohmRember Sun has patents on shipping container servers.Apr 20 14:18
schestowitzWho would you rather see buy them?Apr 20 14:19
trmancothere goes one of my favorite companies down :|Apr 20 14:19
oiaohmSo Oracle could sue MS over there new datacenter in construction.Apr 20 14:19
schestowitztrmanco: Ian MurdockApr 20 14:19
trmancoand mysqlApr 20 14:19
schestowitzOracle employeeApr 20 14:19
trmancomysql should have never been bought buy sunApr 20 14:19
trmancoby*Apr 20 14:19
oiaohmmysql under Oracle should be ok.Apr 20 14:19
schestowitzDebian founder becomes Oracle senior.... now, *there's* something to think about.Apr 20 14:19
oiaohmOracle was one of the first members of the Linux foundation.Apr 20 14:20
schestowitzI can now shout at webmink when Ellison says the darnest things ;-)Apr 20 14:20
trmancoI just hope this brings benefits to the foss community that's allApr 20 14:20
oiaohmSo debian founder there is not strange.Apr 20 14:20
oiaohmOracle taking over sleepy cat did not harm trmancoApr 20 14:21
oiaohmI don't see this time will be any different.Apr 20 14:21
oiaohmOnly this time its larger.Apr 20 14:21
schestowitzSleepy Cat was badApr 20 14:21
schestowitzThe founder quitApr 20 14:21
trmancowhat was sleepy cat?Apr 20 14:21
oiaohmWith OpenOffice Oracle will be in the location to do what MS does 100 percent intergration.Apr 20 14:21
schestowitzStarted ClouderaApr 20 14:21
trmanconever heard of such company beforeApr 20 14:22
schestowitzAnd he left in anger, AFAIKApr 20 14:22
schestowitzOthers followed himApr 20 14:22
schestowitztrmanco: it's newApr 20 14:22
oiaohmhttp://www.oracle.com/technol...  << sleepy cat was the producer of this.Apr 20 14:22
schestowitzIt has some good employees in it. I think Diane Green is an advisor there too (Microsoft and its Joe Tucci0lef mafia threw her out)Apr 20 14:22
schestowitz*Tucci-ledApr 20 14:23
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oiaohmHostile take over.Apr 20 14:23
schestowitzDiana/Dianne? I can't recall this, ever.Apr 20 14:23
oiaohmBut really berkeley db never looked back.Apr 20 14:23
schestowitzTim Bray works for Oracle now. Will Oracle do more Ruby?Apr 20 14:24
trmancointerestingApr 20 14:24
oiaohmJust expect a lot of the programs to end up with Oracle stuck on there name.Apr 20 14:24
oiaohmOpen Office is going to be wrong.Apr 20 14:25
schestowitzThere was speculation about Oracle buying Zend (PHP)Apr 20 14:25
oiaohmOracle OpenOffice.org now OOOOApr 20 14:25
trmancoOracle OfficeApr 20 14:25
schestowitzMaybe IBM will do itApr 20 14:25
trmancohaApr 20 14:25
trmancomaybe they will finally improve that database programApr 20 14:25
_boo_lolApr 20 14:25
trmancowho knowsApr 20 14:26
schestowitzOOOOh noes!!1Apr 20 14:26
oiaohmAquirement of Zend would complete most of there stack.Apr 20 14:26
trmancooh crap, Zend, no wayApr 20 14:26
*schestowitz needs to download OOOO30Apr 20 14:26
trmancoLOLApr 20 14:26
Omar87Well, if OOO went wrong, what else will we be using as an alternative to MS Office?Apr 20 14:26
trmancoI still have the sun logo on mineApr 20 14:26
schestowitzStill have 2.4 installed. I never use itApr 20 14:26
trmancoI have 3.0.1Apr 20 14:27
oiaohmOmar87: Koffice is slowly forming up as plan B.Apr 20 14:27
schestowitzOOOO31 to be out later this month and replace OOOO30. So advocacy of OpenOffice is now Oracle marketing. Eeeek.Apr 20 14:28
oiaohmThat is something Oracle is great at.  Marketing.Apr 20 14:28
Omar87oiaohm: Yeah, but: a)by the time Koffice becomes as good many people will get sick of Linux because it has no good alternative. b)Koffice is designed specifically for KDE.Apr 20 14:28
schestowitzBrand powerApr 20 14:28
schestowitzOracle has very strong brand, like Apple and CiscoApr 20 14:29
schestowitzGoogle's pretty good tooApr 20 14:29
_boo_what's so pretty in google?Apr 20 14:29
schestowitzMicrosoft -- from the people who brought you... Zune, Vista, and Red Rings of DeathApr 20 14:29
schestowitz_boo_: people love Google (many do)Apr 20 14:29
_boo_what's red rings of death?Apr 20 14:30
oiaohmKoffice is designed for KDE and KDE is going cross platform.Apr 20 14:30
_boo_i don't love google but i use itApr 20 14:30
schestowitzGoogle is perceived as an information-giving friend, free of chanrgeApr 20 14:30
schestowitzSame with Wikipedia and MozillaApr 20 14:30
schestowitzPeople LOVE Wikipedia and MozillaApr 20 14:30
_boo_oh yeah, it's also info collecting friendApr 20 14:30
_boo_that's the chargeApr 20 14:30
schestowitz_boo_: sheesh. That's the secret ;-)Apr 20 14:30
_boo_:PApr 20 14:30
Omar87Guys, can you please stop this extremism? We can't make everything 10000% free, and neither is that a good thing either.Apr 20 14:31
oiaohmSupport costs.Apr 20 14:31
schestowitzOracle says it will carry on with the h/wApr 20 14:31
oiaohmThat is never going to be free.Apr 20 14:31
schestowitzoiaohm: any proof?Apr 20 14:31
schestowitzLike a link?Apr 20 14:31
_boo_Omar87, of course, but this info that google collects doesn't allow you to make any terroristic actApr 20 14:31
_boo_you can't plan terrorism with google, gmail and chromeApr 20 14:32
Omar87_boo_: So?Apr 20 14:32
_boo_and googledocsApr 20 14:32
_boo_Omar87, 'cause it's already terrorismApr 20 14:32
schestowitzAsk brings back butler Jeeves < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tech... > not even a butler can save them.Apr 20 14:33
oiaohmOracle as not said either way yet schestowitzApr 20 14:33
schestowitz_boo_: googledocs?Apr 20 14:33
schestowitzWhat for? Investory?Apr 20 14:33
oiaohmIt is also why give up a profit marking department schestowitzApr 20 14:33
_boo_oh yeahApr 20 14:33
schestowitz"dynmaite.. check"Apr 20 14:33
schestowitzMaybe spreadsheets materialApr 20 14:34
schestowitzActaully, this is interwetsingApr 20 14:34
_boo_schestowitz i don't remember the exact name 'cause i used it onceApr 20 14:34
schestowitzSome people download manuals on building bombsApr 20 14:34
schestowitzWith Google tracking use it can see who sends and views which documentsApr 20 14:34
schestowitzNo need for HTTP or E-mailApr 20 14:34
_boo_you see, they wanted to make a bombApr 20 14:34
_boo_but google knows datApr 20 14:35
schestowitz"Ohhhhhhhhh... and he LOVES Big Google..."Apr 20 14:35
_boo_you can't now freely make a bombApr 20 14:35
_boo_to explode m$Apr 20 14:35
oiaohmWhat do you mean cannot make a freely bomb.Apr 20 14:35
_boo_'cause you use googleApr 20 14:35
oiaohmYou can make a shock wave device.Apr 20 14:35
_boo_yeah, free as in "free bomb"Apr 20 14:35
oiaohmWill not kill but scare the crap out of people.Apr 20 14:36
_boo_+shipping free of chargeApr 20 14:36
_boo_i took a week of holidays to put my brains togetherApr 20 14:36
oiaohmOver the years lots of Open source person have been picked up by MS.Apr 20 14:37
schestowitzGlyn Moody with a detailed analysis of what OracSun means to FOSS: http://www.computerworlduk.com/commun...Apr 20 14:37
_boo_that's why i wanna build a bombApr 20 14:37
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schestowitzIBM Buying Sun Would Be Great News For Linux, Java, and Open Office a < http://daveshields.wordpress.com/2009/0... > (from @daveshields)Apr 20 14:38
_boo_lolApr 20 14:39
schestowitzI think it's an IBM employee who wrote itApr 20 14:39
_boo_oracle should buy ibmApr 20 14:40
_boo_for no sane reasonApr 20 14:40
MinceRlolApr 20 14:40
_boo_but i'm on vacationApr 20 14:40
MinceRoracle should by ibm, microsoft and appleApr 20 14:40
MinceRs/by/buy/Apr 20 14:40
_boo_so it's okayApr 20 14:40
schestowitzMinceR: yeah, why have competitionApr 20 14:41
MinceR:)Apr 20 14:41
schestowitzLet's drive Pada, tooApr 20 14:41
schestowitz*LadaApr 20 14:41
MinceRwhy have competition like m$ and apple?Apr 20 14:41
MinceRsomeone should buy and stop themApr 20 14:41
schestowitzMinceR: to destory one anotherApr 20 14:41
_boo_don't ever buy ladaApr 20 14:41
schestowitzLike US and USSRApr 20 14:41
schestowitzEventually they disarmApr 20 14:41
_boo_i already got 1Apr 20 14:41
schestowitzAnd realise that a nation called China is running rounds with low-cost competition Apr 20 14:42
MinceRwell, they don't seem to be destroying each otherApr 20 14:42
schestowitzA bit liek FOSSApr 20 14:42
schestowitzAnd Microsoft is like the Soviwett EmpireApr 20 14:42
MinceRboth are owned by companiesApr 20 14:42
schestowitzBit but rather poorApr 20 14:42
_boo_russia will be second china in 30 yearsApr 20 14:42
schestowitzAnd people outside overestimate its powerApr 20 14:42
schestowitzLike the US didApr 20 14:42
MinceRUS is owned by companies like m$ and recording companiesApr 20 14:42
oiaohmYes it bad news or good new for IBM.Apr 20 14:42
MinceRrussia is owned by putin :>Apr 20 14:42
schestowitzMicrosoft is not omnipotentApr 20 14:42
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_boo_and then they procreateApr 20 14:42
schestowitzNeither was the Soviet UnionApr 20 14:42
oiaohmIBM already has its own fork of OpenOffice.Apr 20 14:42
schestowitzIt collapseApr 20 14:42
*zer0c00l has quit ("let me buy some coke first")Apr 20 14:42
schestowitzApple is like the US... living in fantasiesApr 20 14:43
_boo_russia is owned by jewsApr 20 14:43
_boo_as usaApr 20 14:43
schestowitzWashington and Apple thriving in selling people selusionsApr 20 14:43
schestowitz*delusionsApr 20 14:43
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_boo_and part of europeApr 20 14:43
oiaohmSo really SUN and IBM merging would have been bad for Open Office.Apr 20 14:43
_boo_merging is akways bad 4 smthApr 20 14:44
schestowitzless choiceApr 20 14:45
_boo_but don't touch oo!Apr 20 14:45
schestowitz_boo_: power is not an ethnic thingApr 20 14:45
_boo_read their thora, schestowitzApr 20 14:46
_boo_in fact you should be killed for reading itApr 20 14:46
schestowitzHehe.Apr 20 14:46
_boo_as written in thereApr 20 14:46
schestowitzWell, I don't care for religionsApr 20 14:46
_boo_but you could read it stillApr 20 14:46
schestowitzA lot of religious writings are intolerant by designApr 20 14:46
schestowitzLiterature of hateApr 20 14:46
_boo_i don't share tolerant viewsApr 20 14:47
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Apr 20 14:47
_boo_to tolerate means to accept unnecessary painApr 20 14:47
schestowitzDepends whose.Apr 20 14:47
_boo_nope, it's by defApr 20 14:47
schestowitzI think ethics need to be taugfhtApr 20 14:47
schestowitzNot the whole patriotic/expansionist doctrineApr 20 14:47
_boo_you can't just put 1m of black people to white people and tell them: TOLERATEApr 20 14:47
schestowitzJust watch US and EU schools and how they preach for making money and many kidsApr 20 14:48
_boo_while supporting blackApr 20 14:48
schestowitzThat's a recipe for destruction of the human raceApr 20 14:48
oiaohmNow what would be scary is of Orcale aquires IBM next.Apr 20 14:48
_boo_noApr 20 14:48
_boo_for destruction of white raceApr 20 14:48
schestowitzIt assumes convenienctly that the world is an infinite garbage sumpApr 20 14:48
schestowitzAnd that some wonderman up in the sky will take care of everything despite advisariesApr 20 14:48
_boo_it's just 'cause jews can't have healthy babies with white peopleApr 20 14:48
_boo_of european typeApr 20 14:49
_boo_that's why borders are open to any south nationalitiesApr 20 14:49
_boo_just to make white inexistantApr 20 14:49
schestowitzThe issue of borders is another thingApr 20 14:49
_boo_it's ALL connectedApr 20 14:49
schestowitzIt's like creating exclusionary clubsApr 20 14:49
_boo_noApr 20 14:50
schestowitzAnd the forces usually encourage occupation and suppression of othersApr 20 14:50
_boo_there was a nationality that lived on some regionApr 20 14:50
_boo_if nationality fails to defend itself in every caseApr 20 14:50
_boo_it vanishesApr 20 14:50
schestowitz_boo_: the populations that expand the most are not the ones you mentionApr 20 14:50
_boo_they can't just merge in yearsApr 20 14:50
schestowitzIn fact, the largest populations are in the eastApr 20 14:50
_boo_yeahApr 20 14:51
_boo_but they are different thingApr 20 14:51
schestowitzAnd China is probably quite as intolerant in other ways. But they are run differentlyApr 20 14:51
_boo_it's just enough to open borders and tomorrow you're no moreApr 20 14:51
schestowitzIt's better to engage and integrateApr 20 14:51
_boo_noApr 20 14:51
schestowitzThe antisocial types are the issuem IMHOApr 20 14:51
_boo_china is aggressiveApr 20 14:51
schestowitzSureApr 20 14:51
schestowitzmany nations areApr 20 14:51
schestowitzThe British too used to occupy many coutnriesApr 20 14:52
schestowitzThe United States has been doing that for over 100 yearsApr 20 14:52
_boo_i gotta take a pieApr 20 14:52
_boo_to drink beer properlyApr 20 14:52
oiaohmSo did the Britsh for about 100 years.Apr 20 14:52
_boo_united states is misaprehensionApr 20 14:52
schestowitzFrom north Amerian to South American and other areas where it now has over 1000 military bases  (in foreign soil)Apr 20 14:52
_boo_it's that mixApr 20 14:53
_boo_that shows the world how to mixApr 20 14:53
oiaohmUSA has the most numbers of bases not on there soil.Apr 20 14:53
_boo_and that mix stinksApr 20 14:53
schestowitzoiaohm: its military budget is stunning, tooApr 20 14:53
schestowitzThey should provide welfare, less for militaryApr 20 14:53
oiaohmAustralian mil has never kept a base where ever it been.Apr 20 14:53
_boo_what could you expect out of nation of murderers, thiefs and stuff...Apr 20 14:53
schestowitzThere's poverty thereApr 20 14:53
oiaohmAll left behind Australian bases get taken over by local forces.Apr 20 14:54
schestowitzShoting rah rah rah for the military is no substitute for things like healthcareApr 20 14:54
schestowitz*SoutingApr 20 14:54
*_boo_ piemilkingApr 20 14:54
trmancoOracle's HQ is beautifulApr 20 14:54
oiaohmAustralia even has a few USA bases.Apr 20 14:54
schestowitzUK has manyApr 20 14:54
schestowitzDisguised as RAF basesApr 20 14:55
schestowitzSome of them at leastApr 20 14:55
_boo_usa is completely driven by jewsApr 20 14:57
_boo_and every president nowadays is part of masonic orderApr 20 14:57
_boo_*almost anyApr 20 14:58
_boo_all of them got masonic initiationApr 20 14:59
_boo_and they are not even elite in masonryApr 20 15:00
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trmanco"Content Server Request FailedApr 20 15:02
trmancoServer is too busy to handle request. "Apr 20 15:02
trmancowowApr 20 15:03
trmancohttp://www.oracle.com/us/corpora...Apr 20 15:03
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_boo_it's not opening... i'm too much into torrentsApr 20 15:05
trmancololApr 20 15:05
_boo_yeah, content server errorApr 20 15:06
_boo_but google obviously cached itApr 20 15:06
trmancoWhat's new in Tomboy 0.14.1Apr 20 15:07
trmanco========================= =========================Apr 20 15:07
trmancoMajor changes in Tomboy 0.14.x series include the following:Apr 20 15:07
trmanco* Tomboy is now fully supported on Windows and Mac OS XApr 20 15:07
trmancogreatApr 20 15:07
trmanco(not)Apr 20 15:07
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trmancowowApr 20 15:11
trmancochanserv diedApr 20 15:11
_boo_it should die more ofteApr 20 15:13
_boo_nApr 20 15:13
_boo_a spying user...Apr 20 15:13
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_boo_even opApr 20 15:14
schestowitztrmanco: Tomboy might be replaceableApr 20 15:14
trmancoschestowitz, I hope soApr 20 15:14
trmancoGnote ftw, it's already replaceableApr 20 15:15
schestowitztrmanco: there was a global announcementApr 20 15:15
schestowitzIt wasn't posted hereApr 20 15:15
schestowitzfrom #gnu: "-christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, I'm going to need to take services down for a few minutes -- this is to let you know that the network will be without Chan, Nick, MemoServ et al for the next few minutes. They'll be back up again soon and apologies for the inconvenience."Apr 20 15:16
schestowitztrmanco: see links in COLA. KDE 4.2 shapes up. MinceR doesn't feel ready for it, thoughApr 20 15:16
trmancoheheApr 20 15:16
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_boo_i don't even feel like installin kde ova debian at homeApr 20 15:17
_boo_even though i disliked gnome in mandrivaApr 20 15:17
schestowitzWhich version did you try?Apr 20 15:18
_boo_3.5.10, 4.2.2Apr 20 15:18
_boo_4.2.1 in windowsApr 20 15:18
_boo_gnome? idkApr 20 15:18
schestowitzThat's experimentalApr 20 15:18
_boo_debian is 5.0.1Apr 20 15:18
_boo_kde is always experimentalApr 20 15:19
_boo_it will be experimental for 1-2 years more i thinkApr 20 15:20
_boo_until it stabilizesApr 20 15:20
_boo_and becomes sane enoughApr 20 15:20
_boo_or completely vistuglishApr 20 15:20
trmancowowApr 20 15:21
trmancothis is still supported:Apr 20 15:21
trmanco"Hello,Apr 20 15:21
trmancoAs there have been a few minor fixes pending for a while now, I thoughtApr 20 15:21
trmancoit was time to release 2.4.37.1. Most of these fixes concern minorApr 20 15:21
trmancosecurity issues which have been backported from 2.6 (mostly local DoSes).Apr 20 15:21
trmancoIn my opinion, only people with local users might consider upgrading, ifApr 20 15:21
trmancothose people still exist !Apr 20 15:21
trmanco"Apr 20 15:21
_boo_lolApr 20 15:22
schestowitzhehe.Apr 20 15:22
_boo_why debian is not using latest stable kernel?Apr 20 15:22
schestowitzI ran 2.4. until 2007.Apr 20 15:22
_boo_i ran winxp 32bit until last summberApr 20 15:23
_boo_summerApr 20 15:23
schestowitzLast bummer :-)Apr 20 15:23
_boo_no, until a year agoApr 20 15:23
_boo_in fact i'm about 15 years old in linuxApr 20 15:23
_boo_15 monthsApr 20 15:23
_boo_XDApr 20 15:23
_boo_15 years... that could make me a proApr 20 15:24
schestowitz15 -> 1994Apr 20 15:24
schestowitzSome people can say that about their desktopApr 20 15:24
_boo_by 1994 i had zx80Apr 20 15:25
schestowitzoiaohm since 1995 iircApr 20 15:25
_boo_with BASICApr 20 15:25
_boo_in 96 or 97 it was 80286Apr 20 15:26
_boo_not for linuxApr 20 15:26
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schestowitz_boo_: now it's an age of Internet, so code will be shared more and Microsoft will be left outApr 20 15:34
schestowitzHad Microsoft been smart like IBM in 1998 and Oracle in 1999 (IIRC), it would have found a way to mingle with FOSS somehow or exploit it. Instead it attacked itApr 20 15:35
schestowitzMicrosoft capitalised on the network effect and already had a well-earned reputation of crime and racketeering, but not even network effect will endure now that it makes more enemies in FOSS.Apr 20 15:35
schestowitzI care more about MSFT's results on Thursday than I care about Ubuntu 9.04 being releasedApr 20 15:36
trmancohahaApr 20 15:36
trmancoyou really hate that company don't you :-PApr 20 15:36
schestowitzMicrosoft will need to lay out a plan and if TomTom-type lawsuits are the plan, then investors should bail outApr 20 15:36
schestowitzSCO had done the same thingApr 20 15:36
schestowitztrmanco: w/o ms, linux will thriveApr 20 15:36
schestowitzBrazilians, Germans, Chinese, Russians, Norwegians, etc. don't care about Macs so muchApr 20 15:37
schestowitzSome don't even have access to themApr 20 15:37
schestowitzMac is a US phenomenon mostly and it spread to some other rich countries including JapanApr 20 15:38
schestowitzBut Mac/Apple PCs are a minority in the worldApr 20 15:38
schestowitzLess than 5% of the hardwareApr 20 15:38
_boo_schestowitz, hawky animals always attack someone that don't answer with aggressionApr 20 15:38
_boo_foss is humanicApr 20 15:39
schestowitzHa :-)Apr 20 15:39
schestowitzSo if we bark back and expose them it'll make them more afraid to do stupid things like invade committees, bribe people, and shove their employees into competitors....?Apr 20 15:40
_boo_at least you will descend to the animal level in this caseApr 20 15:42
_boo_and they will start to understand youApr 20 15:42
_boo_and if you bite them hard enough then they would try to act like they're above attacking ya or even fearApr 20 15:44
schestowitzUnrest across Europe: Swedes Demonstrate Against Pirate Bay Verdict < http://torrentfreak.com/swedes-de... >Apr 20 15:45
_boo_niceApr 20 15:45
schestowitz_boo_: let me find a video I was sent on Fridat,.Apr 20 15:45
schestowitzhttp://www.flixxy.com/game-... high-res videoApr 20 15:46
MinceR_boo_: nope, kde 3.5.8 .. 3.5.10 is not experimentalApr 20 15:46
MinceRit's stable, therefore it's deprecated. :>Apr 20 15:46
schestowitz:-DApr 20 15:46
_boo_i told yaApr 20 15:46
_boo_kde is always experimentalApr 20 15:46
schestowitzMinceR: u used Kubuntu with kde 4.2 right?Apr 20 15:46
MinceRindeedApr 20 15:46
schestowitzKubuntu is not as good as Mandriva for KDE, I hearApr 20 15:46
MinceRmy main complaint is that plasma is unstable and it eats screen space like candyApr 20 15:47
MinceRalso, it isn't quite configurableApr 20 15:47
schestowitzI get the impression that Canonical does not put emphasis or effort into it, but it's the Buntu brand, so people drink itApr 20 15:47
schestowitzmadnriva did a stunning job integrating gtk and Qt+kde 3.5Apr 20 15:47
schestowitzAnd it has admin tools that are pricelessApr 20 15:47
schestowitzIt's like the dream OS, to me at leastApr 20 15:48
schestowitzNetwork tools out of the box too... then again, they include Flash and nvidia binary drivers out of the box tooApr 20 15:48
schestowitzI showed it to my sister.. Metisse tooApr 20 15:48
schestowitzThey think that computers are TellytubbyXPApr 20 15:49
schestowitzThat's what they are taught and that's why Microsoft carefully controls exposures to LinuxApr 20 15:49
schestowitzLike, Microsoft virtually forbids having PCs with Linux on displayApr 20 15:49
schestowitzImagine customers seeing 3D Linux desktops that are better priced than xp/Vista counterparts.Apr 20 15:50
schestowitzThat would change how people perceive computers (Mac vs PC)Apr 20 15:50
_boo_schestowitz, bears are naturally afraid of catsApr 20 15:51
_boo_they just run away at sightApr 20 15:51
schestowitzEgypt lifts its unenforceable ban on GPS < http://www.ogleearth.com/2009/... >Apr 20 15:51
schestowitz_boo_: big catsApr 20 15:52
schestowitzThat was a subApr 20 15:52
schestowitz*cubApr 20 15:52
_boo_i will show you real videoApr 20 15:52
_boo_cats are actually kings of wildlifeApr 20 15:53
schestowitz"Set up a torrent tracker, get fined, go to jail. Join a bank, destroy the economy, profit." http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org...Apr 20 15:56
balzaclartApr 20 15:57
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_p... (Smear row 'over' says Mandelson). They still deny the seriousness of the economic situation, calling it "recession". That's propaganda.Apr 20 15:58
schestowitzbalzac: scroll up a bitApr 20 15:58
schestowitzI posted  a link to Kucinich endorsement.Apr 20 15:59
balzacokApr 20 16:00
schestowitz"Vienna's city council has been using GNU/Linux [...] Ubuntu-based software distribution called Wienux." and open source for years and has developed its own Apr 20 16:01
balzacI wasn't able to find that urlApr 20 16:02
_boo_schestowitz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7M...Apr 20 16:03
schestowitzhttp://www.osor.eu/news/at-vie...Apr 20 16:03
_boo_and it's not even a tigerApr 20 16:03
schestowitzbalzac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?...Apr 20 16:03
schestowitz_boo_: it's a cougar.Apr 20 16:03
_boo_yeah, it's a cat, tigers are more massive and with more staminaApr 20 16:04
_boo_that poor bear would be just deadApr 20 16:04
schestowitzIn pictures: 19th Century China  < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_p... >Apr 20 16:07
schestowitzSecret police intelligence was given to E.ON before planned demo  < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr... >Apr 20 16:09
schestowitzWhat a quick world it is when people are arrested for defending the environmentApr 20 16:09
schestowitz /quick/sickApr 20 16:09
schestowitz"surfer and one-time dirt-biker stands to reap the lion's share of a US$388 million (NZ$681 million) damages award from Microsoft" http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/f...Apr 20 16:11
_boo_seems like m$ started the game that it's unable to winApr 20 16:13
schestowitzTo Win[dows]Apr 20 16:13
_boo_house md is so funny :)Apr 20 16:14
schestowitzzoobab01: pingApr 20 16:17
schestowitzI confuse IP Watch what IAMApr 20 16:17
zoobab01ah?Apr 20 16:17
schestowitzIt's IAM that seems zealous about patentsApr 20 16:17
schestowitzIP Watch is betterApr 20 16:17
zoobab01sureApr 20 16:17
schestowitzI mailed a little with themApr 20 16:17
schestowitzIAM is the annying oneApr 20 16:17
zoobab01IAM is made by patent attorneysApr 20 16:17
schestowitzAnd now they hide behind a regitration wallApr 20 16:17
zoobab01sureApr 20 16:18
schestowitz"It is free to view the IAM blog, however you must first register below or login using the "Subscriber login" link above. "Apr 20 16:18
schestowitzI think I insulted IP Watch by calling them maximalists or somethingApr 20 16:18
schestowitz"part of the IP media group"Apr 20 16:18
schestowitz(IAM)Apr 20 16:18
schestowitzInternet protocol media? ;-pApr 20 16:18
schestowitz"I can't help feeling that once again the IP community in Europe is letting itself down by failing to engage effectively with the mainstream media."Apr 20 16:19
schestowitz"IP community..." LOLApr 20 16:19
schestowitzRead: the community of parasites that try to establish a system of consent on monopolies to act as middlemen and piggpyback engineersApr 20 16:20
schestowitzIAM: "It's little wonder that the anti-software patent FFII sought to piggy-back (forgive the pun) the Munich event. "Apr 20 16:20
schestowitzme: "It's little wonder that the anti-science lawyers patent sought to piggy-back (forgive the pun) the pigs and generate profit"Apr 20 16:20
schestowitzzoobab01: http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-1... points to bad URL (404)Apr 20 16:21
zoobab01ahApr 20 16:22
schestowitzzoobab01: change to http://eetimes.eu/uk/216600083Apr 20 16:22
*amarsh04 had a quick irc conversation with Bdale Garbee earlier on... glad he had the time for a brief chatApr 20 16:23
MinceRhm, apple decided they invented the videotelephone in 2007Apr 20 16:24
MinceR(my only link is hungarian: http://index.hu/tech/mobil/2009... )Apr 20 16:24
MinceRi wonder what has nokia, lg, samsung, etc. have to say about that)Apr 20 16:24
schestowitzamarsh04: what did he say about the server?Apr 20 16:30
MinceRs/\)//Apr 20 16:31
schestowitzamarsh04: here is Microsof telling Intel not to run Linux on their servers: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/1...Apr 20 16:31
schestowitzMS: "I also have a personal ask that if we do the 64bit work that we get INTEL.COM to be a 64bit ASP.NET sites. "Apr 20 16:32
schestowitzApple invested wormsApr 20 16:32
schestowitz*invented... or invited (think Apple with a hole in it)Apr 20 16:33
MinceR:)Apr 20 16:33
schestowitzWatch the pictureApr 20 16:33
schestowitzThe iPhones are presented like effigies on sticksApr 20 16:33
schestowitzMaybe that's why they call it jesusphone in El RegApr 20 16:33
MinceRlolApr 20 16:33
MinceRi think they call it jesusphone because of all the hype that surrounds itApr 20 16:34
MinceRand unreasonable loveApr 20 16:34
schestowitziPhone is an insult to JesusApr 20 16:42
schestowitzCIA waterboarded individual suspects up to 183 times < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/... > That's now what the founding fathers wanted.Apr 20 16:45
schestowitzFBI controls MS Windows: Documents: FBI Spyware Has Been Snaring Extortionists, Hackers for Years < http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke... >Apr 20 16:47
schestowitzzoobab01: nice SSP postApr 20 16:49
zer0c00lschestowitz, nice post :) "ITs a crime that these guys (intel) are running linux" http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0...Apr 20 16:50
schestowitzMusic industry sites DDoSed after Pirate Bay verdict < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... >Apr 20 16:50
schestowitzzer0c00l: yeah, well... as gates said, it's a "jihad"Apr 20 16:51
schestowitzWait until Melinda and Bill pull out the machete and go out on a wild night in KirklandApr 20 16:51
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schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inqu... "I've basically read this same article on 3 sites now and there has been no mention at all about VirtualBox. I know that Oracle and VMWare have been good friends in the past, so I wonder what will happen with this situation now that Oracle owns VirtualBox."Apr 20 17:05
Balrogschestowitz: any comment on this acquisition?Apr 20 17:05
zoobab01what about oracle patent  policy?Apr 20 17:06
schestowitzzoobab01: what policy? :-)Apr 20 17:06
zoobab01Will Oracle give money to FFII, like MySQL was doing in the past?Apr 20 17:06
schestowitzzoobab01: they give patents to the OIn umbrella.Apr 20 17:07
schestowitzDell culls UK advisers  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... >\Apr 20 17:07
zoobab01OIN does not workApr 20 17:07
schestowitzzoobab01: mysql's patents page was already extinguished by SunApr 20 17:07
schestowitzThe management of mysql is out the doorApr 20 17:07
zoobab01does not matterApr 20 17:07
schestowitzMickos, Ax*, Monty..Apr 20 17:08
schestowitzzoobab01: OIn said it would retalisate over FATApr 20 17:08
schestowitzIt said within weeksApr 20 17:08
schestowitzKeith told ZDNetApr 20 17:08
schestowitzNo word since thenApr 20 17:08
zoobab01http://www.economic-majority.com/te...Apr 20 17:08
schestowitzI'd challenge them if nothing happensApr 20 17:08
schestowitzAnd mock OIn for just taking money from TomTom to achieve nothing, AFAICT :-)Apr 20 17:09
zoobab01time for an Open Letter to OracleApr 20 17:09
schestowitzOracle has just been sued over DBSApr 20 17:10
schestowitzthis can include mysqlApr 20 17:10
schestowitzzoobab01: you do it :-pApr 20 17:10
schestowitzzoobab01: does Oracle attack with patents? Examples?Apr 20 17:10
zoobab01the point is to make Oracle answer precise questionsApr 20 17:11
zoobab01Like: Does Oracle embrace the following statement made by the CEO of MySQL AB in 2005: "This is why we support those who work for an abolishment of software patents."Apr 20 17:12
schestowitz"€ Also MySQL is open source so they can't kill it, in fact it's already been forked by some MySQL developers who left Sun recently."Apr 20 17:13
zoobab01if you don't write precise questions, they will spin itApr 20 17:13
schestowitzzoobab01: do it in SSP maybe..Apr 20 17:14
zoobab01I am not the President of the FFII for nothingApr 20 17:16
zoobab01we have enough people on our press listApr 20 17:16
zoobab01nearly 2000 subscribersApr 20 17:16
schestowitzDell Laptops with Ubuntu pre-installed are hard to find < http://www.itrunsonlinux.com/news/56... >Apr 20 17:18
schestowitzIs that a full-time job, zoobab01 Apr 20 17:18
zoobab01noApr 20 17:20
zoobab01not a job at allApr 20 17:20
amarsh04schestowitz... he said they switched servers around a bit and it's now running apache (presumably on linux)Apr 20 17:26
amarsh04I remember the story you did on ms telling intel not to run linuxApr 20 17:26
schestowitzDigg DUMPS Microsoft (and how much Microsoft paid for this PR at the time):  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20...Apr 20 17:26
schestowitzzoobab01: same here.Apr 20 17:27
schestowitzFighting for corruption pays; the opposite rarely doesApr 20 17:27
schestowitzamarsh04: they do this with other companies. Remember GoDaddy?Apr 20 17:27
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/12/...Apr 20 17:28
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.ph... "Here's the press release. So they own Java and Solaris and MySQL, not to mention all the patents Sun pledged to use to defend Red Hat and Ubuntu when Microsoft began patent saber rattling, plus whatever patents Sun had that made Jonathan Schwartz say he had been approached to sue Linux but decided not to"Apr 20 17:29
schestowitzI remember that..Apr 20 17:29
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/05/16/sun...Apr 20 17:30
schestowitzhttp://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_te... "With consumer credit ratings plummeting, more American car owners could soon be driving around with an electronic Big Brother on board."Apr 20 17:40
amarsh04zoobab01 - roles like you have with FFII have a tremendous responsibility... I don't know how anyone does it.Apr 20 17:43
amarsh04yes, lots of spin on netcraft numbers schestowitzApr 20 17:44
amarsh04remember some years back when ms made claims about web server performance and the gnu/linux folk fixed problems that were bottlenecking performance?Apr 20 17:45
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tessier_wheeApr 20 17:51
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, it was mentioned in BNApr 20 17:52
schestowitztessier: there is an Asterisk intsllfestApr 20 17:52
schestowitzhttp://www.thevarguy.com/2009/04...Apr 20 17:52
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trmancooh crapApr 20 17:55
trmancotrmanco-desktop gdm[3548]: WARNING: gdm_slave_xioerror_handler: Fatal X error - Restarting :0Apr 20 17:55
tessier_schestowitz: coolApr 20 18:28
schestowitzhttp://www.grokdoc.net/index.php/M...Apr 20 18:38
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vida18helloApr 20 18:48
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schestowitzI'm gonna have to hack on MediaWikiApr 20 18:53
schestowitzTo change RSS header..Apr 20 18:53
trmancogood luckApr 20 18:55
schestowitzIt's not a good idea because of updatesApr 20 18:56
schestowitzI might as well just do another thing and catch just new visitorsApr 20 18:56
zoobab01mediawiki sucks a lotApr 20 18:59
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schestowitzzoobab01, trmanco: is this ready to become front page? http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.p...Apr 20 19:08
MinceRhttp://kuvaton.com/kuvei/stupid...Apr 20 19:08
schestowitzIt's mostly for new visitors who just put boycottnovell.com in their Web browser or use GoogleApr 20 19:08
trmancoschestowitz, some images would be niceApr 20 19:09
schestowitzMinceR: old newsApr 20 19:09
schestowitzThe front page is viewed a lot so..Apr 20 19:09
schestowitztrmanco: OKApr 20 19:09
trmancooh, and if there is anyway to make the columns even that would be nice tooApr 20 19:10
trmancoafter that, imo, it's readyApr 20 19:10
schestowitzEven in what sense?Apr 20 19:17
trmancoyou were doing it rightApr 20 19:21
trmancoeven at the end of the pageApr 20 19:21
trmancoyeah, it's almost evenApr 20 19:22
schestowitzAh, I see..Apr 20 19:25
schestowitzWell, the Wiki is still messy, but it's for newcomers mostlyApr 20 19:25
schestowitzWhat was permanent redirect code?Apr 20 19:27
schestowitz301 is temporaryApr 20 19:28
trmancoits 301Apr 20 19:29
trmanco307 is temporaryApr 20 19:29
trmancohttp://www.w3.org/Protocols...Apr 20 19:29
schestowitzRedirect permanent / http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/ind...Apr 20 19:30
schestowitzYes, I got that wrongApr 20 19:30
schestowitzhttp://httpd.apache.org/docs/...Apr 20 19:30
schestowitzOopsApr 20 19:31
schestowitzThat didn't workApr 20 19:31
Balrogschestowitz: you're doing a redirect ...?Apr 20 19:32
schestowitzIt seems to be matching that whole expresssion: Going to "http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index..."Apr 20 19:32
Balrogwell if you keep the wiki page updated, it's fineApr 20 19:32
schestowitzBalrog: I'm trying to redict only from "/"Apr 20 19:33
schestowitzto the WikiApr 20 19:33
Balrogthen use a .htaccessApr 20 19:33
schestowitzI doApr 20 19:33
schestowitzRedirect permanent / http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/in...Apr 20 19:33
schestowitzThis does not do it rightApr 20 19:33
Balroglike redirect 301 /index.html /wiki/Apr 20 19:33
Balrog'redirect 301 /index.html /wiki/'Apr 20 19:33
Balrogthat redirects requests for /index.html to /wikiApr 20 19:34
Balrogyou probably want 'redirect 301 / /wiki'Apr 20 19:34
Balrogin your html rootApr 20 19:34
Balrogin the .htaccess fileApr 20 19:34
schestowitzThat's what I triedApr 20 19:34
Balrogcorrect permissions?Apr 20 19:35
schestowitzI see what's causing the problemApr 20 19:35
schestowitzWait, it's a WordPress thingApr 20 19:35
schestowitz"RewriteRule . /index.php [L]"Apr 20 19:36
Balrogah. I run wordpress in subdirectories and use 301 redirects to make it workApr 20 19:36
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schestowitzMaybe I should keep the front page the sameApr 20 19:39
schestowitzAnd then lead new visitors (front page only to the Wiki)Apr 20 19:39
Balrogthe wiki looks like a good front pageApr 20 19:40
schestowitzI'm sure there's a simple way to achieve what we need.Apr 20 19:40
schestowitzI'll try cpanel (gui)Apr 20 19:41
Balrogschestowitz: you'll have better luck with .htaccessApr 20 19:42
schestowitzIt's no good. It's catching everything under main dirApr 20 19:44
Balroghrm. wordpress redir plugin?Apr 20 19:46
schestowitzOops.Apr 20 19:51
schestowitzDmanApr 20 19:51
schestowitzI might have to restore from BUApr 20 19:51
schestowitzBut no...Apr 20 19:51
schestowitzI'll try from mymyadminApr 20 19:51
schestowitzI locked myself out of the options by changing settingsApr 20 19:54
schestowitzSo now I can't open the settings pageApr 20 19:54
schestowitzI'll hack the DBApr 20 19:54
Balrogargh. Do you have ssh access to the server?Apr 20 19:55
schestowitzAssuming I can find itApr 20 19:55
*DavidGerard (i=c3bcb401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-40e6b36e2abf2a3c) has joined #boycottnovellApr 20 19:57
DavidGerardhelloApr 20 19:58
DavidGerardso, you've discovered that mod_rewrite is the work of satan.Apr 20 19:58
DavidGerarddefinitely so in the context of mediawiki and trying to run anything else whatsoever on the url.Apr 20 19:58
*magentar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 20 19:58
schestowitzI found itApr 20 19:58
schestowitzI think...Apr 20 19:58
Balrogwhy is mod_rewrite so bad?Apr 20 19:59
DavidGerardbalrog: because the rewrite rules are *evil*. like building a skyscraper from regexps but worse.Apr 20 19:59
schestowitz"Showing rows 0 - 29 (215 total, Query took 0.0078 sec)"Apr 20 19:59
Balrogew.Apr 20 19:59
Balrogsounds horribleApr 20 19:59
DavidGerardbasically you break your server, then you hack on them until you unbreak your server.Apr 20 20:00
DavidGerardat least the java irc works ;-)Apr 20 20:00
DavidGerardahahaa, there's the css back :-)Apr 20 20:00
DavidGerardnow let's see if i can leave a commentApr 20 20:00
schestowitzOK, I am definitely NOT trying that againApr 20 20:00
schestowitzEnough trouble for one dayApr 20 20:01
DavidGerard*cough* still broken!Apr 20 20:01
Balrogschestowitz: what did you do wrong this time?Apr 20 20:01
DavidGerardgo to main page, click on a heading for one of the storiesApr 20 20:01
schestowitzHow about I stick a big notification at the top of the front page inviting new visitors?Apr 20 20:01
DavidGerardthat *should* be a linkApr 20 20:01
DavidGerardinstead, you get a wiki subpage of Main PabeApr 20 20:01
DavidGerardPageApr 20 20:01
schestowitzAt least until I find a workaround?Apr 20 20:01
DavidGerardwhatever works ;-)Apr 20 20:01
schestowitzDavidGerard: maybe cache?Apr 20 20:02
DavidGerardsee, stuff like this is why we keep config at work in svn ...Apr 20 20:02
DavidGerardcould beApr 20 20:02
schestowitzWhat is not broken?Apr 20 20:02
schestowitzI changed the DB manuallyApr 20 20:02
DavidGerardthe css is showing up nowApr 20 20:02
schestowitzTo fix the issueApr 20 20:02
schestowitzIt's not server confidApr 20 20:02
schestowitzI messed up wordpressApr 20 20:02
schestowitzSo I couldn't access it to even change it backApr 20 20:02
DavidGerardheeeApr 20 20:02
DavidGerardok, story links appear working nowApr 20 20:02


Recent Techrights' Posts

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