To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-68-238-235-164.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 07 00:13 | |
| schestowitz | gn | Apr 07 00:37 |
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| _Hicham_ | oiaohm is the laziest man on the earth :D | Apr 07 02:02 |
| oiaohm | I am not exactly lazy. | Apr 07 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | how can u describe urself? | Apr 07 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Lot of my work contains lot of borring bit.s | Apr 07 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie databases backing up at moment. | Apr 07 02:05 |
| _Hicham_ | what kind of databases? | Apr 07 02:06 |
| oiaohm | All kinds log database its being scanned and backed up. web site database internal business databases. | Apr 07 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Next is the system imaging backup. | Apr 07 02:07 |
| oiaohm | If there is a issue I am expected to repair it straight away. Not walk away have coffee and come back. | Apr 07 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | this stuff is not automated yet? | Apr 07 02:08 |
| oiaohm | Automated to a point. | Apr 07 02:08 |
| oiaohm | The thing spits out anyone who has had a virus and the like. | Apr 07 02:09 |
| oiaohm | And other strange happenings. | Apr 07 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Its the responding to strange happings is why I am here. | Apr 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Some days 100 percent nothing. | Apr 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Other days eep. | Apr 07 02:10 |
| _Hicham_ | strange happenings? | Apr 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Servers not keeping 100 percent uptime and the like. | Apr 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Unexplainable load spikes. | Apr 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Things that can cause me to have to add extra monitoring or replace hardware. | Apr 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | So far no smart reports of failing drives. | Apr 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: It equal to security guard a times. | Apr 07 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Yes the automatic system will record everything. | Apr 07 02:13 |
| oiaohm | But you still have to be there to be the human to fix the problems it finds. | Apr 07 02:13 |
| oiaohm | They use to do this on call until 1 day drives reporting smart failure fell over before tech could get there. | Apr 07 02:14 |
| oiaohm | And back them up. | Apr 07 02:14 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u think is the most reliable operating system for a big webserver? | Apr 07 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Solaris or BSD(without cluster) | Apr 07 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Linux with cluster reliable comes from that 1 part fails so what. | Apr 07 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Windows 2003 and 2008 can be basically brought down by there filesystem locks under load. | Apr 07 02:16 |
| oiaohm | BSD with cluster for some reason does not work as great as it should. | Apr 07 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Something in its tcp/ip stack does not spreed the laod. | Apr 07 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | so solaris is the best? | Apr 07 02:21 |
| oiaohm | It depends on how much hardware you have. | Apr 07 02:22 |
| oiaohm | The differences between Linux BSD and Solaris is not much in stablity. | Apr 07 02:22 |
| _Hicham_ | in what? | Apr 07 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Difference in hardware support is massive. | Apr 07 02:22 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux supports more hardware? | Apr 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 07 02:23 |
| NeonFloss | hey, I though you guys might be interested in this - http://freemusicarchive.org - a CC music project - sorry for interuption | Apr 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | out of all the OS options Linux supports the most. | Apr 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | In server hardware. | Apr 07 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Even more than windows. | Apr 07 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | and the best solution in Linux? | Apr 07 02:24 |
| oiaohm | It is also the size servers using. | Apr 07 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | RHEL? | Apr 07 02:24 |
| oiaohm | If you are using like 4096 core systems BSD don't scale perfeclty on them Solarias can be ok issue linux is happen windows don't even install. | Apr 07 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Its again task. | Apr 07 02:25 |
| oiaohm | RHEL is not perfect for everything. | Apr 07 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no universal solution for the moment | Apr 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | RHEL Centos are about equal. Debian and Ubuntu gets used in places. | Apr 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | It really comes down to the hardware. | Apr 07 02:26 |
| _Hicham_ | and what do u say about RHEL vs Debian on servers? | Apr 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | And administation preference. | Apr 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | I use both. | Apr 07 02:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean which is more complete for server use? | Apr 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Really I don't have that much of a perfence. | Apr 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | RHEL has nice configuration tools. | Apr 07 02:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I am not talking about preference | Apr 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Both equal in what they can do. | Apr 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time. | Apr 07 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | but the difference is the tools? | Apr 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | runnign a orcale database you would put it on RHEL. | Apr 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | or unbreakable Linux from orcale | Apr 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Both are basically RHEL | Apr 07 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | so RHEL/Centos is better for commercial software? | Apr 07 02:29 |
| oiaohm | No. | Apr 07 02:29 |
| oiaohm | There are some commerical software that will give support if you are on debian but not RHEL. | Apr 07 02:29 |
| oiaohm | It really comes down to what you are using. | Apr 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Reason why I end up running openvz | Apr 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | With Debian and Centos running side by side on the same machine. | Apr 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | Best of both worlds. | Apr 07 02:31 |
| oiaohm | I guess that is an answer you were not expect _Hicham_ | Apr 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Apr 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | I was expecting it in fact | Apr 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | it is normal | Apr 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not a preference issue | Apr 07 02:32 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a matter of functionality | Apr 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly functionally. | Apr 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Becuase all that commerical software will work on both. | Apr 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Its more can you get support with the functionallity or are you on your own. | Apr 07 02:33 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is just commercial support? | Apr 07 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | that what matters? | Apr 07 02:34 |
| oiaohm | That really does matter. | Apr 07 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Something strange happens being able to call a help desk is really useful. | Apr 07 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Can make the difference between 5 mins down time | Apr 07 02:35 |
| oiaohm | And many hours. | Apr 07 02:35 |
| _Hicham_ | u r right on that | Apr 07 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | it makes a lot of difference | Apr 07 02:36 |
| oiaohm | Its like me I use 1 tool to configure most of settings in any Linux I use. | Apr 07 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | 1 tool? | Apr 07 02:37 |
| imamilkydrunk | vi | Apr 07 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | what is this tool? | Apr 07 02:39 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : r u still here? | Apr 07 02:49 |
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| hedgie | it's better to ask "r u still there?" due to portal game | Apr 07 02:55 |
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| balzac | sudo !! | Apr 07 03:49 |
| balzac | oops, wrong window | Apr 07 03:49 |
| balzac | Roy really dropped a serious open letter on the patent pushing angstivists | Apr 07 03:51 |
| balzac | schestowitz ++ | Apr 07 03:51 |
| balzac | do while ($software_patents): | Apr 07 03:52 |
| balzac | resist_software_patents(); | Apr 07 03:52 |
| balzac | $schestowitz ++ | Apr 07 03:53 |
| balzac | end; | Apr 07 03:53 |
| balzac | something like that... | Apr 07 03:53 |
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| tessier | Yeay, I'm on twitter. So how would anyone find me if they wanted to follow? | Apr 07 04:56 |
| NeonFloss | hashtags | Apr 07 05:01 |
| NeonFloss | I don; t know why im helping you use evil social netowrking sites :P | Apr 07 05:01 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 07 06:22 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: I only see https://twitter.com/BCMguy | Apr 07 07:15 |
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| tessier | http://twitter.com/tracyrreed | Apr 07 08:05 |
| schestowitz | Isilon cuts staff, recruits NetApper < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... > | Apr 07 08:24 |
| schestowitz | Not surprisingly, The Register's Microsoft's mole is promoting Microsoft partner at the expense of Java which he ridicules. Zend offers PHP cure for Java bloat < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20... > | Apr 07 08:25 |
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| schestowitz | Making DE wars again... http://www.itwire.com/conten... | Apr 07 09:04 |
| schestowitz | BN is unreachable again :-( Britain's policing problem < http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkin... > | Apr 07 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Economist: US collapse driven by 'fraud'; Geithner covering up bank insolvency < http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Econo... > | Apr 07 09:12 |
| schestowitz | IBM is pushing software patents into a debate on Free software: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/... | Apr 07 09:21 |
| schestowitz | Tech Sector Job Losses Up Five-Fold From A Year Ago http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-r... | Apr 07 09:30 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Apr 07 09:57 |
| oiaohm | Hi MinceR | Apr 07 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Apr 07 11:58 |
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| trmanco | suse studio | Apr 07 12:35 |
| trmanco | wow | Apr 07 12:35 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi Roy! | Apr 07 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm | Apr 07 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : what time is it in there? | Apr 07 13:07 |
| oiaohm | 10 pm | Apr 07 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | so u r exhausted now, it is the end of ur day | Apr 07 13:08 |
| _Hicham_ | did u finish backing up the databases? | Apr 07 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 07 13:09 |
| oiaohm | And disappeared to fix a few things. | Apr 07 13:09 |
| oiaohm | When I got back you were gone. | Apr 07 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Ever used webmin _Hicham_ | Apr 07 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Apr 07 13:12 |
| _Hicham_ | is it a web interface to some administration tool? | Apr 07 13:12 |
| oiaohm | http://webmin.com/ | Apr 07 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Configures most things about Linux from a web interface not matter the distribution. | Apr 07 13:13 |
| _Hicham_ | most things about Linux? | Apr 07 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | what about root access? | Apr 07 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have to give the browser root access to be able to do that? | Apr 07 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Apr 07 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Its for remote administation. | Apr 07 13:18 |
| oiaohm | So it has a ssl login. | Apr 07 13:18 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the distro that best supports xen? | Apr 07 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Define support. | Apr 07 13:22 |
| _Hicham_ | nice tools to configure+commercial hotline | Apr 07 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Most distributions with right kernel will run in xen perfectly. | Apr 07 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Most good counfigation tools are netural. | Apr 07 13:23 |
| oiaohm | And made by redhat. | Apr 07 13:23 |
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| oiaohm | http://ovirt.org/ << _Hicham_ just 1. | Apr 07 13:24 |
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| _Hicham_ | I have a slow wifi connection | Apr 07 13:25 |
| _Hicham_ | it takes ages to open a page | Apr 07 13:25 |
| _Hicham_ | what is hardware virtualization support? | Apr 07 13:27 |
| _Hicham_ | is there some hardware that support directly virtualization? | Apr 07 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Yes there is. | Apr 07 13:27 |
| oiaohm | There is even some special network card for virtualization. | Apr 07 13:28 |
| _Hicham_ | which components exacly? | Apr 07 13:28 |
| _Hicham_ | apart the network card? | Apr 07 13:28 |
| oiaohm | I would have to look | Apr 07 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Lest say having cpu do virtual network cards is ok cpu expensive. But the virtualization support cases are down right expensive. | Apr 07 13:30 |
| oiaohm | In cash. | Apr 07 13:30 |
| _Hicham_ | up to how much? | Apr 07 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Start around the 400 dollar mark and goes up. | Apr 07 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes for a network card that would otherwise cost 15 dollars. | Apr 07 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Price of the tech will come down in time. | Apr 07 13:32 |
| _Hicham_ | it is reasonable price | Apr 07 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | very reasonable | Apr 07 13:36 |
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| toros | hi | Apr 07 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 07 14:02 |
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| toros | schestowitz: I see, you wrote about this case: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/05/... | Apr 07 14:06 |
| toros | It looks like as if open source would get a huge ammount of money for the first sight | Apr 07 14:07 |
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| toros | but the truth is, this is just trap | Apr 07 14:07 |
| toros | this money is _only_ for licenses | Apr 07 14:09 |
| toros | so it can't be spent on support, or new hardware, or training | Apr 07 14:10 |
| toros | and nobody contacted the FSF.hu Foundation (the most important free software foundation in Hungary) | Apr 07 14:11 |
| toros | we just saw the headlines in the news... | Apr 07 14:12 |
| toros | so it looks like more some kind of corruption | Apr 07 14:12 |
| toros | somebody will sell debian "licenses" for huge money | Apr 07 14:13 |
| MinceR | or just patent licenses | Apr 07 14:14 |
| MinceR | i mean "covenants not to sue" | Apr 07 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes, something like that | Apr 07 14:17 |
| schestowitz | They mention Novell | Apr 07 14:17 |
| schestowitz | I.e. Linux with the patent tax already paid to Microsoft, no questions asked. | Apr 07 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Hey, maybe they'll buy some coupons. Microsoft would love it. | Apr 07 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Ooh, lucky me. I has just started raining... moments after I came back from a run on a sunny day. The weather is erratic. | Apr 07 14:19 |
| toros | yes, I think Novell will get a nice sum | Apr 07 14:19 |
| toros | the funny is, we had this weekend a conference, called "Linux in the Education" | Apr 07 14:20 |
| toros | and there was nobody, who knew anything about this case | Apr 07 14:20 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_... (Why baseball benched Microsoft Silverlight) "The other major issue was that baseball considered Silverlight too unstable. There were some high-profile glitches, including last year’s opening day, which saw many MLB.com subscribers struggling to log in and others who were unable to watch games. The malfunctions lasted several days." | Apr 07 14:22 |
| schestowitz | Sun set for silver dark. | Apr 07 14:23 |
| schestowitz | toros: it should be called "Free software in education, iseally" | Apr 07 14:23 |
| schestowitz | *ideally. Linux can be propriety and Novell-encumbered too | Apr 07 14:24 |
| toros | yes, I know :) | Apr 07 14:24 |
| toros | But this is a pretty old name | Apr 07 14:24 |
| toros | the first conference was 6 years ago | Apr 07 14:25 |
| toros | and that time the name wasn't so important | Apr 07 14:26 |
| schestowitz | @trmanco: roses look great too, but they are thorny. | Apr 07 14:27 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, what is the problem? Novell? | Apr 07 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Yes, we should not make them stronger. SUSE brand recognition too is good for Microsoft | Apr 07 14:29 |
| schestowitz | Here is Allison explaining why Google et al will threaten FOSS when MSFT is gone. http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/293 | Apr 07 14:30 |
| trmanco | just because it's from novell, doesn't mean I can't try it :-P | Apr 07 14:31 |
| trmanco | btw, opensuse uses RPM's, I hate RPM's | Apr 07 14:32 |
| schestowitz | Sure you can try it | Apr 07 14:32 |
| schestowitz | I'm just saying, if we want to end Microsoft's taxation of GNU/Linux, than there's no choice but to advance abolishment of Ballnuxes | Apr 07 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Luckily, not any more companies are selling out | Apr 07 14:33 |
| schestowitz | GPLv3 prevents this | Apr 07 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Moreover, Novell is very weak. Red Hat and Ubuntu eat their lunch on the desktop and server, respectively. So one battle is being won as Microsoft is running out of money and options | Apr 07 14:34 |
| schestowitz | It sells/shuts down parts of itself so they it won't go bankrupt | Apr 07 14:34 |
| schestowitz | On another front you have GNU/Linux sub-notebooks forcing the company to give WIndows for free and Google/OOo do something similar to Office. Microsoft is rightly scared and trying to find haven in software patents. | Apr 07 14:35 |
| MinceR | they can still bribe governments, like in hungary | Apr 07 14:35 |
| MinceR | i think the abolishment should be accelerated | Apr 07 14:35 |
| schestowitz | School Administrator Accused Of Child Porn Because He Investigated Sexting At School < http://techdirt.com/articles/20... > | Apr 07 14:37 |
| schestowitz | It's like the dude from yesterday who got detained by the police for handing over a phone that he found. | Apr 07 14:37 |
| schestowitz | Take-home message: don't investigate abuse, don't return lost property to people. | Apr 07 14:38 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I'll do a Comes marathon in the summer | Apr 07 14:38 |
| schestowitz | Fox Fires Columnist For 'Reviewing' Leaked Copy Of Wolverine < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... > | Apr 07 14:39 |
| schestowitz | "ISC-G recommends for approval ODF to be a Malaysian Standard. The only person who can stop it now is the Minister of Science." http://twitter.com/yoonkit/stat... | Apr 07 14:42 |
| trmanco | brb, kernel update | Apr 07 14:44 |
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| schestowitz | Novell's de Icaza is doing a lot of damage to Free software again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/... | Apr 07 14:46 |
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| trmanco | how long did I take? :-P | Apr 07 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Two minutes | Apr 07 14:47 |
| schestowitz | UK is ideal home for electronic Big Brother < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2... > | Apr 07 14:47 |
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| schestowitz | The UK economy is declining too,,so harsher enforcement is needed of people's thoughts, feelings, speech, and action. Shock therapy principles... | Apr 07 14:48 |
| trmanco | hmm, not bad | Apr 07 14:48 |
| schestowitz | i ca has 2.6.29? http://img.globalvoicesonline.org/Bad... | Apr 07 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Novell is infecting devices now, bringing the virus to another company that may have Microsoft knocking on its door. http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2... | Apr 07 14:54 |
| trmanco | oh crap | Apr 07 14:56 |
| schestowitz | From Red Hat's CEO to the US government: http://press.redhat.com/2009/04... | Apr 07 14:56 |
| trmanco | http://www.linux-foundation.org/we... | Apr 07 14:57 |
| schestowitz | One mistake that's made is to assume that !microsoft = bliss and that companies like Red Hat and Novell can solve the nation's problem. Same in Hungary.... money should be SAVED, not given to companies. It should be given people FS hackers | Apr 07 14:58 |
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| trmanco | my favorite -> http://video.linuxfoundation... | Apr 07 15:03 |
| schestowitz | transcoding.... why doesn't the Linux Foundation actually use open/free FORMATS?!?! | Apr 07 15:07 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: it's the most professionally done, I think | Apr 07 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Linux Pub is good too | Apr 07 15:07 |
| trmanco | Linux pub has lack of professionalism | Apr 07 15:08 |
| trmanco | ogg support in Firefox is still not mainstream yet, maybe that's why | Apr 07 15:08 |
| zoobab01 | can someone manage to play this stream!: | Apr 07 15:17 |
| zoobab01 | http://webstream.ec.europa.eu/scic... | Apr 07 15:17 |
| zoobab01 | it does not play neither with vlc or mplayer | Apr 07 15:17 |
| zoobab01 | MS patented technologies | Apr 07 15:17 |
| trmanco | zoobab01, give a minute | Apr 07 15:17 |
| trmanco | me* | Apr 07 15:17 |
| trmanco | zoobab01, no I can't play it | Apr 07 15:19 |
| schestowitz | LF/IBM always think in terms of proprietary codecs. Even Red Hat is still on the verge. | Apr 07 15:20 |
| MinceR | RH loves sw patents | Apr 07 15:21 |
| schestowitz | "contrary to industry reports, the company has no plans to discontinue the Neo FreeRunner, and is manufacturing more units, it claims." http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS... | Apr 07 15:22 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: I don't think so. Only a couple of people claim that; others refute it, people who were close to it | Apr 07 15:22 |
| Omar87 | Hello there. | Apr 07 15:23 |
| MinceR | so what's up with the "Computer-Implemented Invention" case? | Apr 07 15:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I... "A buzzword that is used to describe any mobile phone that has the potential to be a threat to the Apple iPhone consumer market dominance. The Android platform is often referred to as an "iPhone Killer". " | Apr 07 15:27 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: still undecided. Pieter is angry | Apr 07 15:27 |
| MinceR | who's Pieter? | Apr 07 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Former FFII supremer | Apr 07 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Not it's zoobab01 | Apr 07 15:27 |
| MinceR | jesusPhone killers are dependent on hype and marketing, not technological superiority | Apr 07 15:28 |
| MinceR | (based on the latter, the jesusPhone is a pathetic failure) | Apr 07 15:28 |
| schestowitz | They capitalise on network effect | Apr 07 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Start hyping it up | Apr 07 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Then developers come and build your platform | Apr 07 15:28 |
| MinceR | they capitalize on human idiocy | Apr 07 15:28 |
| schestowitz | A bit like Zune... only with actual suckers :-) | Apr 07 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Listen to me | Apr 07 15:29 |
| schestowitz | This is important: | Apr 07 15:29 |
| MinceR | making them celebrate something that's like the j2me platform that has been around for years (except more closed) as something revolutionary and cool | Apr 07 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Zune is the future. | Apr 07 15:29 |
| schestowitz | I'll run your dog, your kettle, it'ff run you crazy | Apr 07 15:29 |
| MinceR | :D | Apr 07 15:29 |
| schestowitz | What Zune built on? WinCE? | Apr 07 15:30 |
| MinceR | i'd guess so | Apr 07 15:30 |
| schestowitz | They spent a lot of money on that platform. | Apr 07 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Lousy Toshiba device nobody wanted | Apr 07 15:30 |
| schestowitz | They take good features like Wi-Fi (Internet and all) and turn it into 'squirting' only* | Apr 07 15:30 |
| schestowitz | *That's what they call sending someone DRM-encumbered song over Wi-Fi... s/he can play it 3 times and whoops! Gone. | Apr 07 15:31 |
| schestowitz | The thing ain't compatible with any other DRM system, so all Zune users are f*ed | Apr 07 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Wait until Zune is officially cancelled | Apr 07 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Not even MICROSOFT"s other DRM devices are compatible with Zune. | Apr 07 15:31 |
| schestowitz | MSN music shut down | Apr 07 15:32 |
| schestowitz | So did NotSoSure(TM), aka PlaysForSure... sure sure... !! | Apr 07 15:32 |
| MinceR | was zune dependent on msn music? | Apr 07 15:32 |
| schestowitz | No | Apr 07 15:32 |
| schestowitz | I don't think so | Apr 07 15:32 |
| MinceR | FailsForSure was already shut down? and was it separate from m$n music? | Apr 07 15:32 |
| schestowitz | MSN Music was canceled less than a year ago | Apr 07 15:33 |
| schestowitz | FailsForSure == betrayal of partners like MTV | Apr 07 15:33 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micr... | Apr 07 15:34 |
| schestowitz | "Recently, Microsoft has decided to rebrand "PlaysForSure" and is using a subset[2][3] of PlaysForSure, namely Certified for Windows Vista.[4] Microsoft's Zune, works only with its own content service called Zune Marketplace, not PlaysForSure." | Apr 07 15:34 |
| MinceR | oh. | Apr 07 15:34 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Msn_music "It started out with 1.5 million songs, but decreased to 1.1 million songs due mainly to lagging sales and lack of real support from Microsoft. The MSN Music store was not compatible with Microsoft's own Zune music player. As of 14 November, 2006, MSN Music ceased music sales and now redirects viewers to either Zune or Real Rhapsody websites." | Apr 07 15:35 |
| MinceR | a whole little army of incompatible DRM systems | Apr 07 15:35 |
| schestowitz | "In April 2008, Microsoft announced that the DRM servers for MSN Music will be deactivated on 2008-08-31. After this date it will no longer be possible to reauthorise purchased songs when changing computers or operating systems.[2] They have suggested that customers back up their music by burning it to CD.[3]" | Apr 07 15:35 |
| MinceR | what were they thinking? one of them was bound to survive? :> | Apr 07 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Yay. Who said DRM is a mess? Just buy some blank CDs (pay MAFIAA tax) and do the dance. | Apr 07 15:35 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 07 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Here /we/ are... | Apr 07 15:35 |
| schestowitz | With oggs and mp3s.. more 'features'... like magical universality in playbackl | Apr 07 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Like in the 1980s | Apr 07 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Motorola spends $216m on money-saving job cuts < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... >. That's what happens when some fools create bubble economies and families have 7 kids (worry about the 3 mortgages later) | Apr 07 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Apr 07 15:47 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 7 15:50:43 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Apr 07 15:50 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | Apr 07 15:50 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 | Apr 07 15:50 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Apr 07 15:50 | |
| *#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtm... | Apr 07 15:51 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Apr 07 15:51 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft already knows that many people will dislike Vista 7 (or can't run it): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/... | Apr 07 16:04 |
| MinceR | the greatest feature of future windows versions might be that windows xp is included ;) | Apr 07 16:04 |
| schestowitz | More crime from a company not foreign to bribes, sabotage and blackmail (Intel): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n... | Apr 07 16:05 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Vista has this feature too | Apr 07 16:05 |
| MinceR | there's only a downgrade option | Apr 07 16:06 |
| MinceR | but maybe they'll include it in the default installer in the future | Apr 07 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Until they come up with an alternative to Windows | Apr 07 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Right now they just try to sugar-coat something that's dead end, but it only makes it fat, clumsy and incompatible. | Apr 07 16:06 |
| MinceR | they already have an alternative, it's called Microsoft Linux, SuSE Edition. ;) | Apr 07 16:07 |
| MinceR | they just need to support it. | Apr 07 16:07 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft is extending XP downgrades | Apr 07 16:07 |
| Eruaran | Even after Windows 7 appears | Apr 07 16:07 |
| MinceR | indeed, that's the topic. :) | Apr 07 16:08 |
| Eruaran | I'd call that the definition of failure | Apr 07 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Yes, in advace | Apr 07 16:08 |
| MinceR | yes, but officially it's called Microsoft Success. | Apr 07 16:08 |
| schestowitz | They spent a lot on marketing | Apr 07 16:08 |
| Eruaran | I have another definition of failure | Apr 07 16:08 |
| Eruaran | New South Wales DET | Apr 07 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Now they do anti-marketing, unless offering downgrades counts of good publicity | Apr 07 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has already bribed bloggers and sent it to PC enthusiasts with high-end h/w | Apr 07 16:09 |
| schestowitz | I can't wait to see that Vista7 frek ending up on the single-core machines of poor families that make up the majority of the market, esp. in economic gloom | Apr 07 16:10 |
| Eruaran | They are wasting millions of dollars of taxpayer funds on Netbooks with Windows XP on them... and have already comitted to "upgrading" to Windows 7 later... wasting millions more in taxpayer funds | Apr 07 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Vista7 is not what the market needs | Apr 07 16:10 |
| schestowitz | So they'll stick with XP. Microsoft supplies this | Apr 07 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | Many go for sub-notebooks. There too there is NO Vista. | Apr 07 16:10 |
| Eruaran | I have a regular who comes in to chat at work | Apr 07 16:11 |
| Eruaran | I have enthused a lot to him lately about how impressed I am with Kubuntu 9.04 | Apr 07 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: organised crime is to be expected in English-speaking countries if the syndicate is American | Apr 07 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Germany or India are less likely to fall for it, not to metion Russia and Brazil. | Apr 07 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft loves counting just sales in the US | Apr 07 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Home of MSFT | Apr 07 16:12 |
| Eruaran | he brought his PC in today... Windows had locked him out saying it must be activated, basically treating him like a criminal... he's cracked it and wants to try Kubuntu | Apr 07 16:12 |
| schestowitz | NPD uses this to pretend the world buys Microsoft... XBox, Vista, Zune, subnotebooks with XP... | Apr 07 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: happened to a mate of mine last week... locked out because he's wrongly flagged | Apr 07 16:12 |
| Eruaran | when I say 'cracked it' I mean he lost his temper | Apr 07 16:12 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: yes, same thing | Apr 07 16:13 |
| schestowitz | I put him on the KDE page... he stared at it for a long time considering the move | Apr 07 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Many people don't know about Linux | Apr 07 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes they just hear about it. Once they know and see it, the perspective changes | Apr 07 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Mac vs PC (Windows) ---> Windows vs Free | Apr 07 16:14 |
| Eruaran | I've enthused so much to this guy he basically said, "SCREW THESE BASTARDS, PUT LINUX ON MY COMPUTER FOR ME!" | Apr 07 16:14 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: yes, thats why we have a demo system with a linux distro on it | Apr 07 16:14 |
| Eruaran | It breaks down a lot of barriers | Apr 07 16:15 |
| schestowitz | ROTFLMAO. GM is trying to go out of business a lot faster. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/bu... | Apr 07 16:15 |
| schestowitz | When ch11 comes in they'll ask, "what happened??" It was a "seaway accident," they'll reply. | Apr 07 16:17 |
| MinceR | i just hope the Chevrolet Volt doesn't die :) | Apr 07 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Apr 07 16:21 |
| schestowitz | There's a joke that I don't get. | Apr 07 16:21 |
| Eruaran | GM have lost the plot | Apr 07 16:22 |
| MinceR | it seems to be a nice car. | Apr 07 16:22 |
| MinceR | serial hybrid | Apr 07 16:22 |
| MinceR | plug-in, of course | Apr 07 16:22 |
| MinceR | they call it an extensible range electric vehicle | Apr 07 16:22 |
| MinceR | (it isn't in production yet) | Apr 07 16:23 |
| Eruaran | The Volt looks nice | Apr 07 16:23 |
| Eruaran | But in general I think GM have lost it | Apr 07 16:24 |
| Eruaran | Dumping trucks and big vehicles, good... wierd looking single person 35mph electric vehicles that only run for an hour on one charge for 2012... bad... | Apr 07 16:25 |
| Eruaran | Why cant they just knuckle down and produce some decent smaller more environmentally friendly economical cars now instead of hair brained stuff probably nobody will ever buy | Apr 07 16:26 |
| Eruaran | They seem to have gone from one silly extreme to another | Apr 07 16:27 |
| Eruaran | The Volt maybe being the exception | Apr 07 16:27 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Vietnam is investing in Free software: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/IT... | Apr 07 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | Who would buy (or be able to afford) a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... in 2011? | Apr 07 16:29 |
| schestowitz | They live on borrowed stimulus time (both GM and the public) | Apr 07 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Anti-Free software masqueraded as polite advice: http://www.cxotoday.com/India/News/How_O... | Apr 07 16:33 |
| MinceR | there still are a lot of wealthy people | Apr 07 16:33 |
| schestowitz | How many? | Apr 07 16:33 |
| schestowitz | I know how wealthy but also how many (maybe a couple of million in the US) | Apr 07 16:33 |
| schestowitz | it's like saying there still are a lot of wealthy countries | Apr 07 16:34 |
| MinceR | i don't know | Apr 07 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | NPD is not only an MS puppet; it also deceived with IS-only figures. Just look what it did with Zune and XBox, even Vista. They use selective statistics, very often to vilify their clients' competitors. Right now they attack Linux by ignoring high sales outside the US. Gartner and IDC have similar tricks up their sleeves, and luxurious contracts with Microsoft. | Apr 07 16:50 |
| schestowitz | /s/IS/US/ | Apr 07 16:50 |
| schestowitz | be careful of NPD whenever you see it coming up. | Apr 07 16:52 |
| trmanco | hahaha, ms to offer free downgrade no 7 users? omfg | Apr 07 17:09 |
| trmanco | to* | Apr 07 17:09 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, there? | Apr 07 17:09 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, tom-tom agreed to pay M$ ? | Apr 07 17:09 |
| zer0c00l | FAT cannot be used? | Apr 07 17:10 |
| *zer0c00l reads | Apr 07 17:13 | |
| *zer0c00l thats an old story :P | Apr 07 17:13 | |
| zer0c00l | *finds | Apr 07 17:13 |
| zer0c00l | "When it counts, it appears that Microsoft still actively seeks to undermine those technologies or standards that are truly open, especially when those technologies pose a significant threat to their business." | Apr 07 17:14 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.linuxdevices.com... | Apr 07 17:14 |
| zer0c00l | old one | Apr 07 17:14 |
| zer0c00l | Many popular linux distributions have native support for FAT..why M$ cant sue the distribution vendors? They are afraid? or They cannot? | Apr 07 17:18 |
| schestowitz | They try | Apr 07 17:29 |
| schestowitz | Quietly | Apr 07 17:29 |
| schestowitz | Another post coming. | Apr 07 17:29 |
| schestowitz | Good news! Big Nokia likely to sell Linux MIDs http://apcmag.com/nokia-to-rel... ( Nokia to release a netbook? ) | Apr 07 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Good news! NOVL downgraded again. | Apr 07 17:30 |
| Balrog | hi everyone | Apr 07 17:40 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: don't mistake the TomTom case for an MS win. They are on their death bed, so they leech other companies at the expense of their image and antitrust status | Apr 07 17:40 |
| Balrog | http://www.9to5mac.com/Microsoft-m... ... that comment is funny .... (not pro-mac BTW) | Apr 07 17:41 |
| schestowitz | Hard Times May Boost Linux in Financial Services < http://www.hpcwire.com/features/Hard-Times-Ma... > | Apr 07 17:41 |
| schestowitz | heh. Well, H-P suffered a lot from Vista | Apr 07 17:42 |
| schestowitz | The 'capable' lawsuit showed angry E-mails from the heads at H-P | Apr 07 17:42 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 07 17:43 |
| Balrog | if microsoft keeps advertising based on price / capability, they will very likely lose a good portion to Linux | Apr 07 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Price? | Apr 07 17:46 |
| schestowitz | $4 for XP | Apr 07 17:46 |
| Balrog | but that's lacking in capability | Apr 07 17:46 |
| Balrog | current Linux is much more capable than XP | Apr 07 17:46 |
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| Balrog | also did you see this? http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?si... | Apr 07 17:48 |
| Balrog | << XP Reprieve, Downgrade May Continue After Win7 | Apr 07 17:48 |
| Balrog | <<"Not only will users be able to keep Windows Vista, but they'll be able to step back in time two generations, all the way to XP. "We will offer downgrade rights from Windows 7 to Windows XP in the same way we did with Windows Vista," a Microsoft rep said.>> | Apr 07 17:49 |
| zer0c00l | this shows that they aren't confident in vista 7 too | Apr 07 17:51 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 07 17:52 |
| schestowitz | It has the V word | Apr 07 17:56 |
| Balrog | windows 7 is vista at the core | Apr 07 17:58 |
| schestowitz | It has expensive marketing campaign, more than Mojave. W-E was paid a lot by Microsoft to bribe bloggers with laptops, for example. | Apr 07 18:04 |
| Balrog | yeah. :/ | Apr 07 18:06 |
| balzac | microsoft is really having a core dump | Apr 07 18:08 |
| trmanco | balzac, I would say multiple core dumps | Apr 07 18:09 |
| tessier_ | meh | Apr 07 18:10 |
| balzac | I don't even want to see the log... | Apr 07 18:10 |
| tessier_ | I've been hearing about MS having issues for years. Haven't seen any change in their behavior yet. | Apr 07 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: encrata isn't the last in this log | Apr 07 18:15 |
| schestowitz | tessier: which behaviour? | Apr 07 18:15 |
| schestowitz | The fact that they sue Linux | Apr 07 18:15 |
| schestowitz | The fact that Windows is sold for $5? | Apr 07 18:15 |
| tessier_ | All of the above. | Apr 07 18:15 |
| tessier_ | Same old dirty tricks for years. | Apr 07 18:15 |
| schestowitz | The fact that they corrupt ISO and have investigations around the world launched to retaliate for the crimes? | Apr 07 18:15 |
| tessier_ | I'm hoping netbooks will change things. | Apr 07 18:15 |
| tessier_ | Especially when the ARM based netbooks come out. | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Linux is said to be growing in market share there. | Apr 07 18:16 |
| tessier_ | I'm really looking forward to Intel and MS losing their hegemony. | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, ARM | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Will raise the market share vs. $4 XP (or $5) to 33% from 25% | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | According to ABI | Apr 07 18:16 |
| trmanco | http://danishkanavin.blogspot.com/2009/0... | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Intel just got whacked | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Crime... tax evasion | Apr 07 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Intel's profits sank 90$ in the last quarter | Apr 07 18:17 |
| schestowitz | I think their 'next' Q is this month, same with MSFT's | Apr 07 18:17 |
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| balzac | The executives will be wearing depends under-garments | Apr 07 18:21 |
| balzac | at the quarterly meeting | Apr 07 18:21 |
| balzac | Everyone in the board room is going to have a core-dump | Apr 07 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Not many are left | Apr 07 18:25 |
| schestowitz | A lot of MS Presidents and VPs have left in 2007-9 | Apr 07 18:25 |
| balzac | they took the money and ran | Apr 07 18:27 |
| balzac | the top of the pyramid-scheme is leeching the substance out of the company | Apr 07 18:28 |
| trmanco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ | Apr 07 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: they did take some money | Apr 07 18:28 |
| schestowitz | *balzac... sorry | Apr 07 18:28 |
| balzac | soon it will collapse and be derided as a ponzi scheme | Apr 07 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Not so soon. | Apr 07 18:28 |
| schestowitz | My friend thinks November is when the glue (stimulus) will come loose | Apr 07 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has some crucial data, so I kid you not -- bailout is an option | Apr 07 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer urged for it strongly last year and this year | Apr 07 18:29 |
| balzac | sheesh | Apr 07 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is not immune, he argued openly | Apr 07 18:29 |
| schestowitz | They issue debt now | Apr 07 18:29 |
| balzac | Roy, I already figured it could come to that | Apr 07 18:30 |
| schestowitz | $5 bn the last time this was stated | Apr 07 18:30 |
| balzac | I figured that M$, being a part of the police-state apparatus, would ultimately be subsidized for it's freedom-quelling capabilities. | Apr 07 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Closing down Encarta, MSN Music, Ensemble Studio, Flight Simulator and on (oh, and firing many employees) will save them a bundle | Apr 07 18:30 |
| balzac | this was before any bail-outs happened | Apr 07 18:30 |
| schestowitz | The question is, can core product fill the void? | Apr 07 18:30 |
| schestowitz | $3 Windows.. | Apr 07 18:30 |
| schestowitz | You need to sell lots of THOSE | Apr 07 18:31 |
| balzac | it just clicked in my mind - proprietary software, DRM - these methods of controlling people would not be allowed to perish just because Microsoft is not solvent. | Apr 07 18:31 |
| schestowitz | And you rely on people being able to afford a sub-notebooks per child or whatever. | Apr 07 18:31 |
| balzac | I might have even predicted that in here | Apr 07 18:31 |
| balzac | I'm like a "mentat" from Frank Herbert's Dune... How did I see it coming, even before the first bail-out. | Apr 07 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Which one? | Apr 07 18:33 |
| balzac | That Microsoft would be subsidized (bail-out = same) if they become insolvent because control of people has a high market-value to governments. | Apr 07 18:34 |
| schestowitz | More like medical data | Apr 07 18:35 |
| schestowitz | That's why they entered | Apr 07 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Not my opinion BTW, others' whose opinion I read years ago when Microsoft began | Apr 07 18:35 |
| schestowitz | It offered free (gratis) s/w for some key datacentres | Apr 07 18:36 |
| schestowitz | They'll also LOVE to put critical data in OOXML | Apr 07 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Only a fool would put his/her (o citizens') in a format which depends on one dying company whose value was halved in one year | Apr 07 18:36 |
| tessier_ | Microsoft bail-out? Not likely. | Apr 07 18:37 |
| tessier_ | It would kill their stock price if it became known that they were somehow in danger of going under unless they got a bail-out. | Apr 07 18:37 |
| schestowitz | tessier: that's why I said "not yet/so fat" | Apr 07 18:39 |
| schestowitz | tessier: FWIIW, let me give you refs | Apr 07 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer: Congress must 'stabilize' financial crisis < http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-1005... >; Ballmer says Microsoft not immune from global crisis < http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080930/bs_... >; Microsoft calls on Congress to reconsider bailout < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-... | Apr 07 18:40 |
| schestowitz | 0-20 > | Apr 07 18:40 |
| schestowitz | That last one again: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860... I have more if you are interested. Ballmer also snuck into the Big Guns recently to lobby for bailout. | Apr 07 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Nokia is hiring for GNU/Linux: http://www.nokia.com/imaginemaemo | Apr 07 18:45 |
| trmanco | I'm still waiting for the ARM netbooks | Apr 07 18:47 |
| schestowitz | More cameras and routers run Linux now... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/... http://www.h-online.com/open/Foner... | Apr 07 18:49 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: July IIRC | Apr 07 18:49 |
| tessier_ | Microsoft wants places bailed out and the economy rescued so big companies can continue paying their license fees. | Apr 07 18:49 |
| trmanco | grr, can't wait, I might buy one myself | Apr 07 18:50 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I thought about that, but look at Microsoft's finances. | Apr 07 18:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news... (Microsoft May Sell Debt in First-Ever Bond Offering (Update1)) | Apr 07 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft investors 'hang on to dream' < http://www.techflash.com/microsof... > | Apr 07 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft should issue debt for a buyback--analyst < http://www.reuters.com/article/mark... > | Apr 07 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft loses 90 Billion Dollars [in less than a year] < http://slated.org/microsoft_l... > | Apr 07 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Details about Firefox 3.6: http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/04/deskto... http://arstechnica.com/open-source/ne... | Apr 07 18:57 |
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| tessier_ | Losing $90B in market value is very different from losing $90B in cash. | Apr 07 19:11 |
| tessier_ | MS isn't selling any stock and does not need to raise any money. | Apr 07 19:11 |
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| Eruaran | If I was a shareholder I wouldn't be happy | Apr 07 19:12 |
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| Eruaran | I'd bail | Apr 07 19:12 |
| tessier_ | Right. You'd bail. But what does that mean for MS? | Apr 07 19:12 |
| tessier_ | Why would MS care if you bailed? | Apr 07 19:12 |
| Eruaran | I know a lot of their shareholders are not happy | Apr 07 19:13 |
| tessier_ | They could easily buy back the stock cheaply and gain more control. | Apr 07 19:13 |
| Eruaran | Sweaty with more control can only be a good thing for fee software | Apr 07 19:14 |
| schestowitz | tessier: they can't buy back stock | Apr 07 19:15 |
| schestowitz | They bought too muc | Apr 07 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Their latest buybacks takes them into debt | Apr 07 19:15 |
| Eruaran | Luddites has a way of becoming redundant no matter how much damage they do | Apr 07 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Read the references carefully. | Apr 07 19:15 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: Did you know Miguel de Icaza is no 2 at Novell now ? | Apr 07 19:16 |
| tessier_ | After the latest stock buyback: That still left Microsoft with $23.6 billion in cash and short-term investments — much less than the $60 billion it had on its balance sheet in 2004 when investors and analysts were clamoring for a better use of the treasury. | Apr 07 19:18 |
| balzac | Miguel will be the last one there - "when the music's over", he'll "turn out the lights". | Apr 07 19:18 |
| Balrog | Eruaran: URL? | Apr 07 19:18 |
| tessier_ | Miguel is awfully young isn't he? How can have the experience to be #2 at Novell? | Apr 07 19:18 |
| tessier_ | Doesn't he enjoy coding? | Apr 07 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I doubt it | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | In what sense? | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Technical? | Apr 07 19:19 |
| Eruaran | I may have misread, I'll check | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Vice president doesn't mean no.2 | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | There are many VPs | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Like Simon Phipps, Bob Sutor, even Michael Tiemann IIRC | Apr 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | tessier: no, they use up those piles for buybacks | Apr 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | About $30bn | Apr 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | It was in Associated Press | Apr 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | I'll try to find it | Apr 07 19:20 |
| tessier_ | They still have tens of billions in cash. | Apr 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | How do you know? | Apr 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Ecuador Tax Agency Closes Microsoft Branch Offices For 7 Days | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | "We have twice requested balances, payment reports and complete tax | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | information, but the company hasn't given it to us, so in accordance with our | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | laws we have proceeded with the closure," the SRI official in charge of the | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | proceeding said. € | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeed... | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Office raid in Hungary | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | "Such behavior could lead to the exclusion of competitive products from | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | the market and violate European Union rules, according to the authority | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | known as the GVH." | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/200... | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcement | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | To make matters more murky, the sales were not registered with the Securities | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | and Exchange Commission within the mandatory two days of the transaction, a | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | result of an alleged "administrative error." Microsoft has since remedied the | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | | issue by following the "procedures required of late-filers." € | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum... | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | End of signed message | Apr 07 19:21 |
| Eruaran | must have misread... I'm half asleep | Apr 07 19:21 |
| tessier_ | The reasons they issue debt are complicated but it makes sense now. Similar to how a lot of people were refinancing cash out of their homes and investing it in other things with higher yields. Debt is not always a bad thing. | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Oops. Wrong paste | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Sorry | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | tessier: http://web.archive.org/web/20... | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Financial fraud is business as usual at Microsoft | Apr 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | When asked about it their excuse is that everyone does itr | Apr 07 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Now that the economy collapses people understand that it's not OK | Apr 07 19:22 |
| schestowitz | These are pyramid schemes.. many of them. | Apr 07 19:22 |
| schestowitz | tessier: your tune has changed, though. | Apr 07 19:22 |
| tessier_ | Cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments totaled $20.7 billion as of December 31, 2008, compared with $23.7 billion as of June 30, 2008. http://www.microsoft.com/msft/I... | Apr 07 19:23 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: My tune? | Apr 07 19:23 |
| tessier_ | No doubt they are engaging in shady practices. But it seems perfectly reasonable to me that they really do have all that cash. Tons of people are forced to buy their stuff. | Apr 07 19:25 |
| schestowitz | tessier: microsoft.com as a source? | Apr 07 19:25 |
| schestowitz | tessier: the cash belongs to people | Apr 07 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Less to the company | Apr 07 19:26 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: They file that with the SEC. What better source is there? | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | It's like AIG | Apr 07 19:26 |
| tessier_ | What people? | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Let me suggest a reading. | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | SEC is corrupt | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | I don;'t trust it either | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Neither should you | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | It lost its reputation | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | A year before SCO's ch11 for example it let them off the book | Apr 07 19:26 |
| tessier_ | How so? | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | And as the press will tell you, they didn't do their jobs | Apr 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Read about the SEC fiascos | Apr 07 19:26 |
| tessier_ | There's a difference between corruption, incompetence, and hindsight. | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw covers some | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Incompetence mostly | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | But negligence in this role can be accomplice equivalent | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Like... if the execs pay you to turn a blind eye | Apr 07 19:27 |
| tessier_ | Having done a lot of travel in truly corrupt countries I am careful when I use that word. | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Novell too was under fire | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | SEC... | Apr 07 19:27 |
| tessier_ | I am also careful not to take things for granted. | Apr 07 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Paid some millions to walk away.. | Apr 07 19:27 |
| tessier_ | And I try to be even more careful not to delude myself with wishful thinking. | Apr 07 19:28 |
| schestowitz | tessier: you also live in one | Apr 07 19:28 |
| schestowitz | So do I | Apr 07 19:28 |
| schestowitz | The question is one of frequency | Apr 07 19:28 |
| tessier_ | That's what I'm talking about. You seem ready to flush it all down the crapper. | Apr 07 19:28 |
| tessier_ | UK, US, throw it all away and start over right? | Apr 07 19:28 |
| trmanco | http://libre.fm/ | Apr 07 19:31 |
| trmanco | :D | Apr 07 19:31 |
| schestowitz | tessier: there is an index for corruption | Apr 07 19:33 |
| tessier_ | Yes, I know | Apr 07 19:33 |
| tessier_ | Compare US UK with Russia Or Vietnam | Apr 07 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Corruption is a 'norm' everywhere. You need to find out where. | Apr 07 19:33 |
| schestowitz | As in, which companies and _how much_ | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | That Microsoft breaks tax laws is a fact | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | That Microsoft was caught engaging in fraud (fianncial) too it pretty much a fact | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Has it changed its ways? | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | The 'New' Microsoft? | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | The one that sues FOSS? | Apr 07 19:34 |
| schestowitz | And no longer by proxy? | Apr 07 19:34 |
| Eruaran | http://www.telstrabusiness.com/business/port... | Apr 07 19:37 |
| Eruaran | "T-Suite" | Apr 07 19:38 |
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| tessier_ | Corruption isn't the norm in the UK or the US. It exists but it isn't normal. | Apr 07 19:48 |
| tessier_ | I have never in my life been solicited for a bribe nor have I offered one. In the US or the UK. | Apr 07 19:48 |
| tessier_ | I just don't find that sort of "damn it all" cynicism to be conducive to a healthy society. We should be trying to remove corruption when we find it but not just giving up on the whole works even when it is 99% good. | Apr 07 19:49 |
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| Omar87 | Hi | Apr 07 19:50 |
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| tessier_ | I have always liked the dictum "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right." | Apr 07 19:51 |
| tessier_ | It works well for Britain and for the US. | Apr 07 19:51 |
| tessier_ | I found out what corruption is in Mexico and in Vietnam. I was solicited for bribes and saw others paying bribes with my own eyes. | Apr 07 19:52 |
| tessier_ | They have a saying in Mexico, "Por eso, Mexico esta' como esta'." which means "This is why Mexico is the way it is." | Apr 07 19:52 |
| tessier_ | You bring a Vietnamese or a Mexican to the US and they'll marvel at how little corruption there is. I know because I've done it. | Apr 07 19:52 |
| tessier_ | If you know of corruption you should expose it. But be careful not to kid yourself. | Apr 07 19:53 |
| tessier_ | I agree that there was a lot of corruption in the banking system. Not just in the US but in the whole world. No one person did it in this case. But a lot of people just looked the other way. | Apr 07 19:53 |
| tessier_ | It took all of those people looking the other way to cause this mess. | Apr 07 19:53 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9P... | Apr 07 19:54 | |
| tessier_ | I'm not into chauvinistic nationalism but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater. | Apr 07 19:54 |
| schestowitz | tessier: thanks, I appreciate this info | Apr 07 19:54 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I agree that it cannot be defeated, but there's something to do to counter it. | Apr 07 19:55 |
| tessier_ | Definitely | Apr 07 19:55 |
| schestowitz | tessier: if you do it, it's because you care | Apr 07 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Not because you hate | Apr 07 19:55 |
| schestowitz | If people stop making corrective remarks, it's a bad sign. it means they simply gave up. | Apr 07 19:56 |
| tessier_ | Right. | Apr 07 19:56 |
| tessier_ | But to praise is just as important to punish. As anyone who raises kids or even dogs will know. | Apr 07 19:56 |
| tessier_ | as important as | Apr 07 19:56 |
| tessier_ | Surely someone has to lead the country, sit in parliament, congress, etc. | Apr 07 19:57 |
| schestowitz | We all commend some things | Apr 07 19:57 |
| schestowitz | I don't commend Microsoft | Apr 07 19:57 |
| schestowitz | They don't deserve it. | Apr 07 19:57 |
| tessier_ | Indeed they don't. | Apr 07 19:58 |
| tessier_ | "Some analysts and investors have urged executives to further trim the cash balance and use debt to buy back even more stock." - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht... | Apr 07 20:01 |
| tessier_ | Debt has uses beyond just borrowing money when you need it | Apr 07 20:01 |
| Eruaran | The borrower is servant to the lender | Apr 07 20:10 |
| tessier_ | Sure. But MS took commercial grade paper at 2% for up to 3 months. That's not of a servant. | Apr 07 20:11 |
| Omar87 | Hi | Apr 07 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Omar87 | Apr 07 20:13 |
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| MinceR | crApple is attacking web standards again >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p... | Apr 07 20:22 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: I saw your twitter about Vietnam funding OSS. That's another area where corruption is unlikely to result in any movement at all in the OSS area. | Apr 07 20:23 |
| tessier_ | There is zero transparency in accounting over there. The money is likely to end up in someones pocket and no code will come of it. | Apr 07 20:23 |
| tessier_ | They are making OSS a political football to toss around. | Apr 07 20:23 |
| tessier_ | Speaking of corruption, the conviction of Senator Ted Stevens was thrown out. Hrm. | Apr 07 20:27 |
| tessier_ | Was Stevens corrupt? Was the first court corrupt in convicting him? Was the second court corrupt in throwing out the conviction? Was the first court not corrupt but simply in error? Was the second court? | Apr 07 20:29 |
| tessier_ | I still agree with the sentiment that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than to put one innocent man in prison. | Apr 07 20:31 |
| tessier_ | Besides, he's 85. So I'm not too bothered by this. Now he will have plenty of time to enjoy his computer and let the big trucks dump information in his tubes. | Apr 07 20:32 |
| tessier_ | Apparently the prosecutors made serious errors. | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: old news | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, I heard about it | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Appalling. | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | That's why I tell you corruption prevails | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't work (the law) against Big Criminals | Apr 07 20:35 |
| schestowitz | It always 'works' (;magically') against people who are dark-skinned for example | Apr 07 20:36 |
| schestowitz | That's what the law is for | Apr 07 20:36 |
| schestowitz | To keep the 'responsible' adults in charge, not to resort order | Apr 07 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | I advise you to watch that video I posted earlier | Apr 07 20:36 |
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| MinceR | if only we had responsible adults | Apr 07 20:39 |
| tacone | hey, heard the tomboy news ? | Apr 07 20:39 |
| tacone | tomboy ported to c++ ? | Apr 07 20:40 |
| schestowitz | YAY! | Apr 07 20:40 |
| schestowitz | GNOME cleansed. | Apr 07 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Did they give a reason? | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/to... | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | well | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | yes | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | it's a fork | Apr 07 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | the guy says he's so bored | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | because unemployed | Apr 07 20:40 |
| tacone | because novell layed him off. | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | .... | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | lol | Apr 07 20:41 |
| schestowitz | Really... | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | yes | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | read my post | Apr 07 20:41 |
| schestowitz | When? | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | there's links | Apr 07 20:41 |
| schestowitz | No Novell, no mono | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | well, he supported the proposal of a tomboy port 2 years ago anyway. | Apr 07 20:41 |
| schestowitz | Now he can use the p/l he really wants, maybe.. | Apr 07 20:41 |
| tacone | the proposal was made by another guy. who never did the port. | Apr 07 20:42 |
| tacone | so when he got layed off | Apr 07 20:42 |
| tacone | he did. | Apr 07 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Oh, February | Apr 07 20:42 |
| schestowitz | So maybe it's the old bundle of layoffs | Apr 07 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Novell doesn't announce them | Apr 07 20:42 |
| tacone | gnome is not cleansed anyways | Apr 07 20:42 |
| tacone | f-spot. | Apr 07 20:42 |
| tacone | and there's a bunch of non-default apps which belongs to the gnome project anyways | Apr 07 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm... http://www.google.com/search?q=sit... | Apr 07 20:43 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, but non-default | Apr 07 20:43 |
| tacone | the potentially more dangerous being a generic plugin downloader | Apr 07 20:43 |
| tacone | that plugin downloader | Apr 07 20:43 |
| schestowitz | tomboy on mono was problematic for a particular reason s | Apr 07 20:43 |
| schestowitz | search BN for details | Apr 07 20:43 |
| tacone | is being adopted already by the deskbar-applet (which is default) | Apr 07 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Lots of history about it.. 2007 | Apr 07 20:44 |
| tacone | i don't support that plugin downloader for other reasons, not only for the language choice. | Apr 07 20:44 |
| tacone | but that would be potentially adoptable by many other apps. | Apr 07 20:44 |
| tacone | anyways that's a great news | Apr 07 20:46 |
| tacone | and there's already an ubuntu ppa. | Apr 07 20:46 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: I liked that video from the Linux foundation. :) | Apr 07 20:54 |
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| schestowitz | Omar87: glad you did. Took a while to post because of the ogg. | Apr 07 21:02 |
| MinceR | http://img.waffleimages.com/8a17... | Apr 07 21:35 |
| PetoKraus | good | Apr 07 21:38 |
| PetoKraus | very good | Apr 07 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: he saw the future. | Apr 07 21:47 |
| trmanco | Hackers seize on zero-day flaw in Microsoft's PowerPoint: http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-cent... | Apr 07 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Yes, old news by now | Apr 07 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft sez "heh... not many attacks yet.." | Apr 07 21:51 |
| trmanco | yeah, I'm sort of catching up | Apr 07 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Oh, you were away | Apr 07 21:57 |
| trmanco | :-p | Apr 07 21:58 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 07 22:03 |
| schestowitz | State-owned RBS to axe 9,500 workers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... > | Apr 07 22:08 |
| trmanco | http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/... | Apr 07 22:08 |
| schestowitz | BN loses touch sometimes | Apr 07 22:09 |
| schestowitz | I doubt it's related though | Apr 07 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Other sites seemed less responsive recently (unavilable at times) | Apr 07 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's PR department must have been drunk if it allowed this to come out so early: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/... | Apr 07 22:10 |
| werehedgehog | wow | Apr 07 22:10 |
| schestowitz | MS: "Here's your lobster... and here... is the puke bucket. Enjoy your meal" | Apr 07 22:11 |
| schestowitz | The AP's Desperate Attempt To Outlaw Search Engine Links < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... > | Apr 07 22:15 |
| PetoKraus | who's AP? | Apr 07 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Associated Gangsters | Apr 07 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Cool, but not energy-efficient: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/04... (It's Not a Flying Car — It's a Driveable Airplane) | Apr 07 22:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=3674 (AP Attempts to Shut Bloggers Out ) | Apr 07 22:24 |
| schestowitz | 'For a while now, the AP has had been fighting this insane war against bloggers who quote and use snippets of their articles in blog posts. About a year or so ago the AP decided they would try to charge bloggers and other sites $2.50 cents per word and threatened to sue anyone who did not comply with their dumb “copyright” scheme.' | Apr 07 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | "is wondering why Microsoft Excel does not accept ODF format files while Open Office does accept xls sheets .... another point for OpenOffice" http://twitter.com/hwiggerm/... | Apr 07 22:37 |
| schestowitz | I hear from friends that this could harm Firefox for Linux: Google 'Chromium' pre-alpha available for Ubuntu users http://www.neowin.net/news/software/09... | Apr 07 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: FOSS? | Apr 07 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Apr 07 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Not Chrome anyway | Apr 07 22:44 |
| MinceR | afaik Chromium is FLOSS | Apr 07 22:45 |
| MinceR | and someone will probably make more privacy-friendly versions | Apr 07 22:45 |
| MinceR | iirc they've done it with windows Chromium already | Apr 07 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 07 22:48 |
| schestowitz | But to make something privacy-aware for Windows is like putting a safe on the front desk of a brothel | Apr 07 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Windows is spyware, by definition | Apr 07 22:54 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: what to do about games that are only for windows? | Apr 07 22:55 |
| MinceR | having to keep windows for games is unfortunate | Apr 07 22:56 |
| MinceR | but the os matters less then | Apr 07 22:56 |
| MinceR | for example if windows crashes, all you lose is your gaming since the last time you saved | Apr 07 22:56 |
| MinceR | the failings of the gui are less significant if one app manages the whole screen raw | Apr 07 22:57 |
| MinceR | and the flaws of the task scheduler are probably less important | Apr 07 22:57 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: http://www.google.com/search?hl=... | Apr 07 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: people move gradually, not cold turkey | Apr 07 23:01 |
| schestowitz | They can play some old games and buy new games that run on GNU/Linux | Apr 07 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Then, later on, their 'nostalgia stash' will run under Wine. | Apr 07 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Windows Is Not on 96% of Netbooks < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/... > | Apr 07 23:15 |
| schestowitz | gn | Apr 07 23:15 |
| MinceR | o/ | Apr 07 23:16 |
| MinceR | gn | Apr 07 23:17 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi Roy! | Apr 07 23:37 |
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| Balrog_ | what about Cedega? | Apr 07 23:57 |
Comments
MonkeeSage
2009-04-08 07:35:03