Gemini version available ♊︎

Why Mono (and Moonlight) is Microsoft’s Embrace

Posted in ECMA, Microsoft, Mono, Patents, Ubuntu, Windows at 4:04 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

[Updated: Quote in post corrected (partly omitted/crossed out) because Banshee does not depend on Windows Forms.]

Microsoft Moonlight

Microsoft mono Embrace extend extinguish

Summary: Boycott Novell contributors explain why Mono and Moonlight are real risks

Microsoft is trying to embrace, extend, and extinguish GNU/Linux, largely with the help of Novell. Moonlight is already called "Microsoft Moonlight" in the Novell/Microsoft Web site and one reader wrote to say: “Here is one more proof than Microsoft is backing Moonlight. Go to http://silverlight.live.com/. If you connect from Linux O/S, it will offer you to install Silverlight, click install, you will be redirected to Moonlight page.”

“Mono fans are meanwhile censoring opposers of Mono over in Ubuntu.”Mono fans are meanwhile censoring opposers of Mono over in Ubuntu. Sometimes it's Novell employees and some of those who are responsible (not Novell employees) are writing about proprietary computer games (yes, Windows) at the moment. Those very same people are also pushing hard to put Novell's own Banshee inside Ubuntu, by default, at the expense of other media players.

DaemonFC writes: “If Ubuntu uses Banshee by default, they’ll have to ship Windows Forms/System Forms, so unless they have a Microsoft deal in the works, I don’t know how they’d pull this off. Up til now Ubuntu only ships the ECMA standard parts of Mono. Windows Forms is not part of the standard, so only Novell has permission to distribute that. [...] Well, like I said, if they signed an agreement with Microsoft like Novell has, it would be legal, otherwise they’re opening themselves up to be sued. Microsoft doesn’t want to sue, they want to keep pointing at things like this and saying “Nyaaaah!” when companies are considering Linux.”

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.


  1. Matt Enright said,

    June 8, 2009 at 5:04 am


    I would love to hear more about how including Banshee by default will require Ubuntu to ship with copies of libraries it doesn’t use

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I’ve just informed DaemonFC of his mistake. Still, Mono is a patent issue with or without Windows Forms.

    Matt Enright Reply:

    Thanks for that, but have you corrected the post to remove the paragraph of blatant falsehood as well?
    At the risk of painting myself as a “troll” or “shill”, a real “journalist” checks facts and sources _before_ publishing.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I’ve crossed out the incorrect bits from DaemonFC.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    I notice that you are still using part of his argument, which is entirely based on the assumption that Banshee uses Windows.Forms.

    Windows Forms is not part of the standard, so only Novell has permission to distribute that.

    Since Banshee DOES NOT depend on Windows.Forms, that entire statement should be X’d out.

    twitter Reply:

    BN is a lot better at fact checking than most so called new sites. While everyone else swallows M$ press releases whole, Roy has been a good investigator. Great examples are his exposure of Net Application statistics, the destruction of EEE PC through manipulation of ASUS and Xandros. In fact, Roy has run a lot of good stories about M$ manipulation of the tech press. He gets his information from tireless research and publication of Comes vrs M$ court documents that the ordinary press ignored. Roy’s research and ability to put the pieces together are why we are all here.

    Well, it’s the reason most of us are here. The DeamonFC troll is an interesting case in itself. He appeared with videos and a blog complaining about poor service from M$ and other M$ related OEM vendors to gain trust. Since, he’s steadily devolved to feeding the site nonsense, posting screen shots of his Vista computer, and complaining that Ubuntu is the worst thing to ever happen to computing. He’s generally rude and full of obscenities, but last night he really shined as he and a few other nyms basically admitted they are here to troll and disrupt. The only real question left about DaemonFC is if he’s getting his kicks as part of some kind of troll organization or sponsored by M$. The lengths M$ goes to manipulate the press and bully the world are truly outstanding.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    If you bother to read what DaemonFC stated in IRC on the 7th (see Roy’s logs), you’d see the following:

    DaemonFC says: right now, those libraries [Windows.Forms] are not included with the system Jun 07 19:22
    DaemonFC says: so the discs have nothing illegal to distribute on them

    As he noted a few lines up from there, Ubuntu already distributes Mono for Tomboy & F-Spot. His concern was that Banshee required Windows.Forms (it doesn’t) which would force Ubuntu to add Windows.Forms to the CD (it doesn’t).

    Since Windows.Forms is not needed, there is no problem.

    Sabayon User (Sabayon == Gentoo, kthx) Reply:

    He’s generally rude and full of obscenities, but last night he really shined as he and a few other nyms basically admitted they are here to troll and disrupt.

    Ha, ha.

    twitter Reply:

    Big laugh indeed. The only thing you have against me is that I tried to hide from your abuse. The scope and persistence of M$ stalking is truly amazing. M$’s reputation and fate are sealed.

    I’m not sure which is worse. That I would have to go to such lengths to avoid your censorship and abuse or that you have wasted so much time, energy and money to be sure that I can’t. Really, little old me. Here’s a journal from 2004 where I announced my intention to create new accounts to get away from your abuse. It took me a few years to bother, I only did when your ability to game Slashdot was complete. You idiots lose both ways though. Did you really track me down from the millions of Slashdot users? I won’t give you the satisfaction of a confirmation or denial, but I continue to laugh at your failed efforts. All along, Slashdot regularly published my research and M$ has continued to flunk out in the market place. If anything, your persistent abuse pushed me to dig deeper, and publish ever more detailed and irrefutable evidence of M$’s criminality and incompetence. As Vista is M$’s biggest failure, the Vista Failure Log is one of my favorite research projects. I would never have bothered to write such a thing if it were not for nearly a decade of M$ crapping on my favorite news site and calling me a “cock gobbler”. Really, M$ took a whole generation of free software users and turned them into people who hate your company with a well reasoned passion. The epic troll has been an epic blunder. The sooner M$ fires each and every one of you, the better off everyone will be.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Microsoft ‘thrives’ in a rich history of harassing critics and opposition.

  2. aeshna23 said,

    June 8, 2009 at 8:33 am


    I’d suggest just removing this post, because it was inaccurate. Or maybe just put an explanation of the error before the post, because as the post is now, it’s hard to understand what’s going on until you read the comments.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It’s not so inaccurate at all. Mono is a patent liability; Mono+Windows Forms is an even bigger patent liability. The mistake here was in the words of a reader, who claimed Banshee used Windows Forms in addition to just Mono.

    We wrote about this before.

  3. eet said,

    June 8, 2009 at 4:38 pm


    Banshee uses Mono; big news. Crap as usual on this blog.

  4. Pedant said,

    June 8, 2009 at 5:23 pm


    Umm. You do know that you can’t patent an API, right?

    You do realize that just because an API is named in an interoperable fashion, that doesn’t mean it infringes.

    You might want to take four years off of your life and, you know, go to law school, or something.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Umm. You do know that you can’t patent an API, right?


    Jose wrote an article to explain this.

    Dan O'Brian Reply:

    And Jose is wrong.

    Jose_X Reply:

    Good answer.

    Here is my answer.

    “And Dan is wrong.”


DecorWhat Else is New

  1. Becoming Robust to Censorship is a Technical Challenge for Web Sites That Publish Suppressed Information and Supportive Material

    Being at the mercy of third parties indebted to corporate patrons (or banks), sometimes in "reputation" or "political correctness" or "safety" clothing, is a topological issue; we need to teach more people to self-host and exercise full control over speech and information (never let those with money and power decide who can speak and who cannot)

  2. Links 28/10/2021: Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W Released and Mesa 21.3 Reaches RC3

    Links for the day

  3. [Meme] The EPO's “New Normal”

    The rule of law is being thrown out the window/door, people send rude letters, and we’re meant to think that this is the “new normal” (laws and regulations ceasing to exist); brought by the same people who try to force-feed people all around Europe the unlawful UPC

  4. [ES] Spanish: Richard Stallman's Speech From This Past Saturday

    The new bits (in Spanish) start at 14m:42s from the start

  5. This New Edward Snowden Video is Relevant to Media Cover-up in Service of EPO Management

    We’re long mentioned the 'conspiracy of silence' regarding EPO corruption (bribes and threats from Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos contribute to this silence), so the above video, which is new, seems relevant to us

  6. EPO Home-Working (or 'Remote' Working or 'Teleworking') Isn't an Act of Generosity But of Exploitation

    Contrary to what staff may be led to believe, allowing folks to work from home is just a workaround (as the law forbids some human-to-human contact/interaction) and pretext for screwing the workers a little bit more while crushing basic rights, such as strike and protest abilities (exercising or expressing dissent)

  7. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, October 27, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, October 27, 2021

  8. [Meme] False Choices and False Dichotomy Designed for Self-Harm

    The self-serving EPO surveys, which Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos design to justify their own policies, have severe flaws in them

  9. Links 27/10/2021: XOrg Server 21.1 and Makulu Shift Ubuntu Variant Released

    Links for the day

  10. Links 27/10/2021: Murena for /e/ and Red Hat Condemned for Its Nationalism/Racism

    Links for the day

  11. [Meme] EPO Presidential Surveys

    The 'social democracy' of Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos as demonstrated by a controlled survey (controlled by the subject of the survey, EPO governance)

  12. 'Shaping the New Normal' Survey at the EPO Got 5,554 EPO Staff to Participate, But It Was Controlled by Liars With an Agenda

    Last year’s EPO ‘study’ (hogwash about “quality” and other unscientific junk) was likely biased by virtue of autocrats controlling it and exploiting it for nefarious agenda and brainwashing of national delegates. The Staff Union of the EPO (SUEPO) has a new survey in the making.

  13. Many of the National Delegations (or Delegates) in the EPO's Administrative Council Have No Understanding of What They Vote on

    One must consider the possibility that ignorance or gullibility (which lack of qualifications may entail) possibly became a contributing factor — malice and bribery aside — in systemic failure of the EPO’s governance

  14. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XXV: The Balkan League - Fresh Blood or Same Old, Same Old?

    We take stock of "captured states" that voted in favour of unlawful "Strike Regulations"

  15. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, October 26, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, October 26, 2021

  16. Beatriz Busaniche Speaks Up in Defense of Richard Stallman

    Beatriz Busaniche sent us this comment in July 2021. She wrote it originally in Spanish. Here are both the original text and our translation to English.

  17. Links 26/10/2021: SUSE Linux Enterprise Micro 5.1 and Multi-Distro Benchmarks

    Links for the day

  18. Links 26/10/2021: Vulkan 1.1 Conformance for Raspberry Pi 4 and Tor Browser 10.5.10

    Links for the day

  19. [Meme] Sounds Legit

    When not cheating on the wife, the EPO‘s “doyen” cheats in the exams and makes it into the epi Council, in effect working “[t]owards a common understanding [sic] of quality” with “patent attorneys nominated as “assessors” by the EPO, epi and BusinessEurope” (notorious lobbyists for dictators, litigation, and monopolies, neither business nor science)

  20. [Meme] Mayoral Patent Office Chief

    As it turns out, political 'double-dipping' isn't just a thing in North Macedonia, Austria, and EPOnia

  21. Romania's Patent Office (OSIM): Nine Different Chiefs in Just Eight Years

    The Romanian State Office for Inventions and Trademarks (OSIM), being the equivalent of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) in the sense that it covers both patents and trademarks, is a very flaky institution with no shortage of scandals; for our English-reading audiences we now have a summary of a decade’s worth of blunders and leadership changes

  22. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XXIV: The Balkan League - Romania

    Romania’s patent office has been in flux this past decade, occasionally led by people with no relevant experience, but rather political connections (like EPO President António Campinos) and sometimes forged documents and fake degrees

  23. IRC Proceedings: Monday, October 25, 2021

    IRC logs for Monday, October 25, 2021

  24. [Meme] “Social Democracy” at the EPO

    Some comments on the current situation at the European Patent Office from Goran Gerasimovski, the new EPO Administrative Council delegate for North Macedonia and Social Democratic candidate for mayor of Centar (a municipality of Skopje)

  25. [Meme] António Campinos Visits the OSIM

    António Campinos visits OSIM Director-General Ionel Muscalu in February 2014

  26. [Meme] [Teaser] Meet the President

    Later today we shall see what Romania did for Battistelli

  27. Links 26/10/2021: Latte Dock 0.10.3 and Linux 5.15 RC7

    Links for the day

  28. Gemini Protocol's Originator: “I Continue to Care About This Project and I Care About the Community That Has Formed Around It.”

    'Solderpunk' is back from a long hiatus; this bodes well for Geminispace, which grew fast in spite of the conspicuous absence

  29. Bulgarian Like Bavarian Serfdom

    Bulgarian politics seem to have played a big role in selecting chiefs and delegates who backed Benoît Battistelli‘s unlawful proposals, which treat workers almost like slaves and ordinary citizens as disposable ‘collaterals’

  30. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XXIII: The Balkan League - Bulgaria

    Today we examine the role of Bulgaria in Benoît Battistelli‘s liberticidal regime at the EPO (as well as under António Campinos, from 2018 to present) with particular focus on political machinations

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts