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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 5th, 2008 - Part III

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[H]omerI don'tSep 05 17:50
schestowitzNovell didn't like people who type opensuse and OpensuseSep 05 17:50
schestowitzIIRCSep 05 17:50
[H]omerNo more than I'd blame Fedora if Red Hat sold outSep 05 17:50
schestowitzUnless majority vote counts...Sep 05 17:51
schestowitzLike Americans trying to tell Brits how to spell English words.Sep 05 17:51
benJImanIt's not a word, it's a name.Sep 05 17:51
schestowitzYes, it is.Sep 05 17:51
[H]omerWell i still write SuSE, like the good old days.Sep 05 17:51
[H]omerBefore Sweaty Ballmer's "235 patents"Sep 05 17:52
schestowitzHaha. Microsoft's IDC is kicking Novell in the crotch now:  http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/D...Sep 05 17:52
*benJIman wonders if Ballmer being sweaty validates your argument.Sep 05 17:52
schestowitzEnjoying the dance with the Devil, Ron?Sep 05 17:52
schestowitzI guess Ron won't be getting IDC loves until he bribes Gillen and his groupies.Sep 05 17:53
schestowitzMaybe Novell can borrow some more money from Ballmer to pay IDC for good coverage.Sep 05 17:53
[H]omerSUSE people just don't seem to understand that the attacks are not directed towards them as individuals, it's dissent against Microsoft and anyone who supports them. Surely that's clear enough. And do I really need to remind such people *why* we dissent against that convicted monopolist?Sep 05 17:53
benJIman[H]omer: Do you actually read any of the articles on boyblog? They frequently attack openSUSE and developers working on free software.Sep 05 17:54
[H]omerI am not BN, I am me.Sep 05 17:55
schestowitzbenJIman: attack who? People who mistakenly or knowingly help Microsoft against FOSS?Sep 05 17:56
[H]omerYou attacking *all* dissenters is as bigoted as you seem to think we are towards SUSE. That's hypocrisy benJIman.Sep 05 17:56
schestowitzThey also attacked journalists over this.Sep 05 17:56
schestowitzThat's the most repulsive form of censorshipSep 05 17:56
benJImanWhere was I attacking all dissenters?Sep 05 17:56
[H]omer"They frequently attack openSUSE"Sep 05 17:56
schestowitzTo just write my mind out quickly, Novell pretty much 'gagged' Seigo before the latest announcement and I've inquired a bit.Sep 05 17:57
[H]omerWho's "they"?Sep 05 17:57
benJIman[H]omer: The articles.Sep 05 17:57
schestowitzSJVN too was contacted by Novell and Asay too.Sep 05 17:57
schestowitzSurprise surprise/Sep 05 17:57
schestowitzThe world then thinks that it's all okay if Novell falls into Mirosoft's arms and there's no dissent in the media. So it must be OKSep 05 17:57
schestowitzIn my eyes, what Novell did at the time (I documented this with good solid proof) is like  the things the Bush Regime does to defend its abuse.Sep 05 17:58
[H]omerSo let me ask you quite bluntly benJIman, just to clear this up, do you or do you not support Microsoft?Sep 05 17:58
benJIman[H]omer: How do you define support?Sep 05 17:58
schestowitzAnd careful and carless developers alike just gaze and this and reckon that the media is 'right' and that the deal is one to accept.Sep 05 17:58
schestowitzThey leave it to 'the experts'Sep 05 17:58
[H]omerbenJIman, you sound like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. "Define uninstall"?Sep 05 17:59
benJIman[H]omer: I use Free software on all my own machines, I don't buy any microsoft products. I work with c#, .net, asp.net etc at work.Sep 05 17:59
[H]omerSurely you know what the word "support" means.Sep 05 17:59
benJImanSo I don't really know what you're asking.Sep 05 17:59
benJImanI don't give them money or use their products on my own time.Sep 05 17:59
[H]omerDo you support Microsoft's anti-Linux agenda?Sep 05 18:00
[H]omerWhen Microsoft sabotaged Mandriva and the OLPC, did you support that?Sep 05 18:00
schestowitzAssimilation maybe.Sep 05 18:00
benJImanNo.Sep 05 18:00
schestowitzAs in, Microsoft dictates for Linux programmers.Sep 05 18:00
schestowitzThat's what Mono is about.Sep 05 18:00
benJImanI do like mono.Sep 05 18:00
benJImanbut I prefer java.Sep 05 18:01
[H]omerbenJIman, then if you don't support Microsoft, why do you support those who do, such as Novell?Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer"The friend of my enemy is also mu enemy"Sep 05 18:01
benJIman[H]omer: I don't support Novell per se. I even disagree with a lot they do.Sep 05 18:01
[H]omerThen why come here to  be "entertained"?Sep 05 18:02
schestowitz* OT: On Ellison and possible fraud: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/...Sep 05 18:02
benJImanI think their SLE licensing model is not sensible. I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate. I really don't like groupwise, ichain and such.Sep 05 18:03
[H]omerbenJIman, if you were to just think about exactly *why* we dissent, and specifically *who* we dissent against, then perhaps you'd realise that these "attacks" are not directed against you; the community; or openSUSE.Sep 05 18:03
Odd_BlokebenJIman: You like Java?Sep 05 18:04
Odd_BlokeDo you support Sun?Sep 05 18:04
benJIman:o Odd_Bloke is here.Sep 05 18:04
schestowitz" I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate." Please elaborateSep 05 18:05
[H]omerJava is pure GPL now, that should be a good enough reason. Then there's OO.org too, of course.Sep 05 18:05
schestowitzUnfortunate?Sep 05 18:05
schestowitzThere's no fortuneSep 05 18:05
benJIman[H]omer: In that case why don't you post an article on boycottnovell.com stating that you don't have anything against openSUSE nor that they are responsible for or bound by Novell's actions.Sep 05 18:05
Odd_BlokeJava isn't pure GPL, it's a trademark.Sep 05 18:05
schestowitzNovell came to Microsoft /asking/  for this.Sep 05 18:05
[H]omerbenJIman, I'm not required to refute that which I have never claimed.Sep 05 18:06
Odd_BlokeYeah, who gives a crap about good will in the free software community.Sep 05 18:06
[H]omerbenJIman, why don't you post an article denouncing murder, or theft, or war, for example.Sep 05 18:06
[H]omerbenJIman, presumably you've never stated your support for those things, so why denounce them?Sep 05 18:07
[H]omerbenJIman, I tell you what, why don't you quote some "anti-openSUSE attack" here, and I'll tell you now whether or not I support that assertion?Sep 05 18:08
benJIman[H]omer: Apologies, I did not mean you personally, but boycottnovell collectively.Sep 05 18:09
[H]omerI'm here to dissent against Microsoft and *all* their supporters. That's all.Sep 05 18:10
[H]omerDoes the openSUSE community support Microsoft?Sep 05 18:10
Odd_BlokeWhat does 'support' mean?Sep 05 18:10
[H]omerIf not then ... there's your answer.Sep 05 18:10
Odd_BlokeI had to boot up Vista at work yesterday to test that a website I was working on would work in IE7.Sep 05 18:11
Odd_BlokeDoes that count as supporting Microsoft?Sep 05 18:11
benJIman[H]omer: There is nothing that has been signed by contributors that even mentions Microsoft afaik.Sep 05 18:11
benJImanOdd_Bloke: Clearly you are a Microsoft Shill. €¬_€¬Sep 05 18:11
Odd_BlokeMSFT FTW. >.<Sep 05 18:12
[H]omerOdd_Bloke, support ... as in "believe in", "follow", "give assistance to", "praise", "be happy about", "be content with", "want", "like", etc. I hope that's clear.Sep 05 18:13
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: are you also in the Opensuse channel ATM?Sep 05 18:13
Odd_Blokeschestowitz: I think so, I was supporting a customer through an upgrade a couple of days ago.Sep 05 18:13
Odd_BlokeAnd having no experience with openSUSE myself needed a hand.Sep 05 18:14
schestowitzSo you're ganging up here.Sep 05 18:14
Odd_BlokeUhm, no.Sep 05 18:14
[H]omerWhen people start demanding definitions for simple words like "support", that looks highly evasive to me. Much like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. You should look at it some time, it's hilarious.Sep 05 18:14
schestowitzWe also have 3 'mibs'Sep 05 18:14
schestowitzWho ae eerily quiet I might add.Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz[H]omer: "what do you mean by 'hilarious'?"Sep 05 18:15
[H]omerhttp://antitrust.slated.org/g...Sep 05 18:15
Odd_BlokeNo, hilarious is a well-defined word.Sep 05 18:15
benJIman[H]omer: The point is that unless the members of the community have signed a statement of support I don't know how you expect the question to be answered.Sep 05 18:15
[H]omerHilarious because of Gates' squirming around trying to avoid questions, whilst rocking back and forth in his chairSep 05 18:15
schestowitzNeeds some KaffeineSep 05 18:15
Odd_BlokeBut 'support' can mean many different things in different contexts.Sep 05 18:15
Odd_BlokeI 'support' Windows in that some of our clients run it.Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz*sigh*Sep 05 18:16
Odd_BlokeBut I in no way 'support' proprietary software or Microsoft ideologically.Sep 05 18:16
schestowitzThe conclusion I reach is that OpenSUSE people quietly endorse the dealSep 05 18:16
schestowitzOr... they are not willing to resist it.Sep 05 18:16
schestowitzThat too is support, albeit through passiveness and apathy.Sep 05 18:17
schestowitzThanks for elucidating.Sep 05 18:17
Odd_BlokeOr they realise that doing and creating free software is better than talking about non-free software.Sep 05 18:17
[H]omerbenJIman, but your very presence here for "entertainment" indicates you challenge our dissent - think it's a joke.Sep 05 18:17
benJImanschestowitz: I do not endorse the deal, and I disagree with the patent covenant. Though I think the unfortunate wording was more down to Novell management being epic noobs than the conspiracy theories.Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke[H]omer: It is in no way just openSUSE people that consider your 'dissent' a joke.Sep 05 18:18
Odd_BlokeBut, no doubt, you could find enough of a link to Microsoft to salve your noble spirit.Sep 05 18:18
Odd_BlokeOh, I should note that I know benJIman through university, not through openSUSE.Sep 05 18:19
Odd_BlokeThat's how he recognised me when I spoke up, not through our sworn allegiance to Satan.Sep 05 18:20
[H]omerOdd_Bloke, OK then, please explain what's so funny about what Microsoft did in Nigeria to Mandriva, or Sweden with OOXML? And what's so "funny" about people who dissent against that, and dissent against those who support Microsoft?Sep 05 18:20
schestowitzFor people who purport to be happy about SUSE, you seem very keen to 'entertain' yourselves here.Sep 05 18:20
schestowitzOr Novell's alleged fraud for that matter.Sep 05 18:21
schestowitzThey paid $14 million for these allegations to go away.Sep 05 18:21
benJIman[H]omer: I don't think you'll find that anyone suggested those things were funny.Sep 05 18:21
schestowitzBetter learn to love Microsoft, you two, because Hovsepian indicates that the number of collaborations with Ballmer will triple (up to about 27)Sep 05 18:21
Odd_BlokeI don't take issue with your dissent against Microsoft because its dissent against Microsoft, I take issue with you being so flagrantly bad at it.Sep 05 18:22
[H]omerbenJIman, but you're here to be "entertained", are you not?Sep 05 18:22
Odd_BlokeYou're a laughing stock, because you froth at the mouth.Sep 05 18:22
schestowitzSince Microsoft fights FOSS and breaks the law in the process even, Novell is fighting FOSS too. And as I emphasized before, more people realise this.Sep 05 18:22
Odd_BlokeYou're an object of ridicule which the other side can hold up to make the entire community look stupid.Sep 05 18:22
schestowitzThere's a reason why more people follow BN and it's not because there's anything more than independent suspicion and relisation.Sep 05 18:23
Odd_Bloke_That_ is why I take issue.Sep 05 18:23
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@78-86-98-119.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellSep 05 18:23
schestowitzHi, PetoKraus Sep 05 18:23
[H]omerOdd_Bloke, so it's funny when people are "outraged" by corruption now, is it? What do *you* do, shrug your shoulders and stick your head in the sand, I suppose.Sep 05 18:23
schestowitzBecause he loves his OpenSUSE.Sep 05 18:23
[H]omerBut anti-Microsoft != anti-openSUSESep 05 18:24
[H]omerUnless the openSUSE community is declaring their support for MicrosoftSep 05 18:24
Odd_Bloke[H]omer: I'm currently employed at a free software consultancy, I work on bzr and Debian packaging when I get home from said job, I participate in my local GLUG.Sep 05 18:24
Odd_BlokeIf we're going to beat them, we have to do it by being _better_.Sep 05 18:25
Odd_BlokeBeing right isn't good enough.Sep 05 18:25
[H]omerOdd_Bloke, good, then you hate Microsoft as much as I do then?Sep 05 18:25
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellSep 05 18:27
[H]omerI don't need to prove that the Free Software community is "right" (as in morally right), and that Microsoft is wrong. That much is patently obvious. But I do want to spread that word as far and loud as I can.Sep 05 18:27
Odd_BlokeI don't think I'd characterise it as hate.Sep 05 18:27
[H]omerWhat I'm saying is it's time to pick a side, and stop sitting on the fence.Sep 05 18:27
Odd_BlokeUhm, I've picked my side.Sep 05 18:27
[H]omerMicrosoft is our self-declared enemy "Linux is a cancer". Start treating them as such.Sep 05 18:28
[H]omerIf no one ever dissents against them, then they will continue to corrupt IT with complete impunity. Do you really want that?Sep 05 18:29
schestowitzhttp://www.webwire.com/ViewPres... Novell: "reducing the problems associated with deploying new operating system (OS) platforms like Vista, decreasing expensive service desk calls and increasing user productivity."Sep 05 18:29
[H]omerWould you tolerate a mass-murderer on the loose? Microsoft "murders" software Freedom.Sep 05 18:30
[H]omerIt sabotages Linux.Sep 05 18:30
Odd_BlokeNo, I wouldn't.Sep 05 18:30
schestowitzThis happens to be true, but Microsoft has a good lawyer.Sep 05 18:30
Odd_BlokeBut comparing a human life to software freedom is pretty simple-minded.Sep 05 18:30
schestowitzIt's like a criminal that claims to have helped the community, been a good husband etc.Sep 05 18:30
[H]omerCrime is crime, surely?Sep 05 18:31
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: our society becomes digitalSep 05 18:31
[H]omerTolerate it, or fight again it.Sep 05 18:31
[H]omer*againstSep 05 18:31
schestowitzThose who are poor die from hunger sometimes.Sep 05 18:31
Odd_BlokeYou seem to have a very narrow view of both dissent and fighting against proprietary software.Sep 05 18:31
Odd_BlokeBoth of which seem to involve making a lot of noise.Sep 05 18:32
[H]omerMy fight is not against "proprietary software", it's against Microsoft - convicted monopolists and racketeers.Sep 05 18:32
Odd_BlokeThat's where you and I differ.Sep 05 18:33
schestowitzProprietary software is dangerous when it's equipped or accompanies with malice.Sep 05 18:33
[H]omerI don't care about other proprietary software companies, like AutoDesk, for example, because AutoDesk do not attack the Free Software community.Sep 05 18:33
schestowitzIt gives total control over the user who pays for it.Sep 05 18:33
schestowitzWhen you buy a car, the car does not control you. You can open up the bonnet.Sep 05 18:33
[H]omerLook at Adobe, for example. I wouldn't exactly call them Free Software evangelists, and yet they are friendly towards Linux. They are a business, and need to make money, but they do this without sabotaging the competition or attacking Free Software.Sep 05 18:35
[H]omerOnly Microsoft do thisSep 05 18:35
[H]omerIBM *used* to be a culprit tooSep 05 18:35
[H]omerBut now they've sided with Linux against MicrosoftSep 05 18:36
Odd_BlokeGNU/Linux.Sep 05 18:36
[H]omerMicrosoft is the *only* threatSep 05 18:36
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: IBM is odd with GNUSep 05 18:36
[H]omer"Linux" shorthand/convenience. No disrespect to the FSF.Sep 05 18:36
Odd_BlokeIn what way are they a threat?Sep 05 18:36
schestowitzIBM is behind the marketing group called Linux FoundationSep 05 18:37
schestowitzBut IBM helps FSF financially, I suspectSep 05 18:37
Odd_BlokeJust acting threatening towards the free software community doesn't mean they are an actual threat.Sep 05 18:37
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: they bribe against it.Sep 05 18:37
schestowitzThey do a lot more.Sep 05 18:37
[H]omerRoy, post the link to "Microsoft's dirty tricks" to show Odd_Bloke how Microsoft are a "threat".Sep 05 18:37
schestowitzNeed you see examples?Sep 05 18:37
Odd_BlokeOK, that's acting threatening.Sep 05 18:38
Odd_BlokeWe're a _community_, not a business.Sep 05 18:38
schestowitzThere's no 'community'. Not in the usual sense..Sep 05 18:38
schestowitzThere's a sharing of goals and philosophy.Sep 05 18:39
schestowitzThere are many 'communities' that are social groupings of programmers and such.Sep 05 18:39
Odd_BlokeOK, a confederation of communities then.Sep 05 18:39
[H]omerThey coopted Novel, funded SCO against Linux, sabotaged the OLPC and Mandriva, called Linux a "cancer", made unfounded allegations of "235 patent" infringements, the list goes on.Sep 05 18:39
[H]omerThen their's the MSBBC iPlayer fiascoSep 05 18:39
schestowitzI have 4005 posts in BN with many more examples.Sep 05 18:39
schestowitzA lot of their dirty laundry they do via proxies.Sep 05 18:40
[H]omerShell companies like IP Innovation LLCSep 05 18:40
Odd_BlokeSo those are all irritating, but they aren't actual threats to the functioning of the confederation of communities.Sep 05 18:40
[H]omer"Irritating"?Sep 05 18:40
Odd_BlokeThey aren't out to destroy free software qua free software, they're out to destroy free software qua competition, if you will.Sep 05 18:41
[H]omerIt's thuggish and criminalSep 05 18:41
[H]omerIn a fair society they'd be shut down for racketeeringSep 05 18:41
[H]omerLook at the OEM scandal (proved by the DOJ)Sep 05 18:41
Odd_BlokeIn a fair society, I suspect they wouldn't operate this way.Sep 05 18:41
Odd_BlokePrecisely because they would be shut down.Sep 05 18:42
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: what do you do about this? Support Novell/Mcirosoft SUSE?Sep 05 18:42
[H]omerClandestine Memorandum of Understanding with OEMs to lock-out pre-installed Linux, the sabotage against Apple "knife the baby", sabotaging Netscape ...Sep 05 18:42
schestowitzBy refusing to act upon it, you solve nothing and complicate things further.Sep 05 18:43
[H]omerI mean good God these people are gangsters, how can anyone not see that?Sep 05 18:43
Odd_BlokeI'm not refusing to act, I'm refusing to act in an identical manner to Boycott Novell.Sep 05 18:43
Odd_BlokeWhich, incidentally, is fairly poorly named if "Microsoft is the *only* threat".Sep 05 18:43
[H]omerName another threat thenSep 05 18:44
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: really?Sep 05 18:44
[H]omer<silence>Sep 05 18:44
schestowitzIf I don't criticise Apple in BN (which I do in links), it's because the scope of the site must be limited.Sep 05 18:44
Odd_BlokeIt's called Boycott _NOVELL_. €¬.€¬Sep 05 18:44
benJImanWell boycottxandros.com goes to the same site.Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer"The friend of my enemy..."Sep 05 18:45
[H]omerUnderstand yet?Sep 05 18:45
Odd_BlokeUhm, I understand perfectly.Sep 05 18:45
Odd_BlokeI _disagree_.Sep 05 18:45
[H]omerWhy?Sep 05 18:45
Odd_BlokeBecause regularly having a tantrum on your blog is not a productive way to bring down Microsoft.Sep 05 18:46
Odd_BlokeIt's counter-productive.Sep 05 18:46
[H]omerHow would you deal with Microsoft? Support them or fight them?Sep 05 18:47
[H]omerAnd how would you do it?Sep 05 18:47
Odd_BlokeYou give them something to hold up to people in general, who are indifferent to the matter, and say, "Look, they're crazy."Sep 05 18:47
Odd_BlokeBecause you're fucking crazy.Sep 05 18:47
[H]omerThen indifferent should remain indifferent ... elsewhereSep 05 18:47
[H]omerI'm crazy for being outraged by Microsoft's thuggish behaviour? Why?Sep 05 18:48
Odd_BlokeYou do not have the Platonic expression of outrage.Sep 05 18:48
schestowitzOdd_Bloke: if you don't fight back, you lose.Sep 05 18:48
[H]omerThat's your mistaken inferenceSep 05 18:48
Odd_BlokeThis isn't fighting back!Sep 05 18:48
[H]omerYour opinionSep 05 18:49
Odd_BlokeThis is banging your fists on the floor and screaming, while feeling like you're doing something!Sep 05 18:49
schestowitzMicrosoft fight FOSS all the time (it's disguised behind fronts like BSA and CompTIA). Refuse to talk about it and you shall be devours.Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz*devouredSep 05 18:49
[H]omerSpreading the truth is not a tantrumSep 05 18:49
Odd_BlokeThat's true, but irrelevant.Sep 05 18:49
schestowitzCan you counter $300 of Microsoft brainwash money? http://www.forbes.com/reuters/fe...Sep 05 18:50
[H]omerUltimately there are those who care, those who don't, and those who oppose dissent. I'll keep stating my views in the *hope* that it makes a difference. Would you rather I was censored?Sep 05 18:50
schestowitzDo you know how much they bribe politicians?Sep 05 18:50
schestowitz(by bribe I mean "contributions" and "awards")Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer"Marketing assistance"Sep 05 18:51
[H]omerLOLSep 05 18:51
schestowitzBribeSep 05 18:51
[H]omerJust like SwedenSep 05 18:51
schestowitzThey have many words for it.Sep 05 18:51
[H]omerNigeriaSep 05 18:51
schestowitzLobbying too.Sep 05 18:51
[H]omerCongress?Sep 05 18:51
Odd_Bloke[H]omer: I don't oppose dissent.Sep 05 18:51
schestowitzLike ACT ATL and other bribery houses that Zuck seems to be building for Microsoft.Sep 05 18:52
schestowitzIt's a money funnel that goes all the way up.Sep 05 18:52
Odd_BlokeBlog posts are not dissent.Sep 05 18:52
[H]omerOdd_Bloke, sound like you do - you're trying to say I should shut up.Sep 05 18:52
schestowitzAnd again, I won't stop citing it:  http://lessig.org/blog/2008/...Sep 05 18:52
schestowitzThe system is corrupt. Treat it gently with apologism and you'll become a slave.Sep 05 18:52
[H]omerThe world is full of sheeple.Sep 05 18:52
Odd_BlokeBut you're not treating the system harshly.Sep 05 18:53
Odd_BlokeYou're just talking about the system.Sep 05 18:53
Odd_BlokeIt's not _doing_ anything.Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz?Sep 05 18:53
[H]omerWhat other power do I have?Sep 05 18:53
[H]omerBut the voice of dissent?Sep 05 18:53
schestowitzCan I bribe the cronies?Sep 05 18:53
schestowitzCan I prevent them from receiving brives in  procurement?>Sep 05 18:54
schestowitzSpeaking of which, Novell bribes too.Sep 05 18:54
schestowitzhttp://www.accessmylibrary....Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz"The new chief of technology at the state Department of Children & Families resigned late Tuesday after agency officials learned he had been faulted by officials at a previous job in Ohio for accepting gifts from a technology company that had won a $1.9 million contract.Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz"Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz"John R. Hurd was also criticized in a separate investigation by the Ohio Inspector General’s Office for appearing in several advertisements for the company, Novell, and allowing the company to run endorsements by him on its website."Sep 05 18:55
[H]omerI could steal money from people with racketeering, then use that to bribe congress into changing the system ... just like Microsoft does. But I'm not built that way. I'd rather use the democratic process to speak out.Sep 05 18:55
Odd_BlokeWhen was the last time you wrote to your congress(wo)man, senator, MP, ...?Sep 05 18:55
benJImanHave you written to your local MP/MoC ?Sep 05 18:56
benJImanHeh.Sep 05 18:56
[H]omerEvery other weekSep 05 18:56
[H]omerMost recently about iPlayerSep 05 18:56
Odd_Bloke[H]omer: You're British?Sep 05 18:56
[H]omerYesSep 05 18:56
Odd_BlokeCool.Sep 05 18:56
[H]omerI used congress as an example (assume American on the Net)Sep 05 18:56
[H]omerI also signed various petitions on the PM's WebsiteSep 05 18:57
*schestowitz signs many petitionsSep 05 18:57
[H]omerAnd spoke out against Donald Trump's "plans" to destroy an area of SSI in AberdeenshireSep 05 18:57
[H]omerI am very much an "activist", and I *hope* I do make a difference. I am not a sheeple.Sep 05 18:58
[H]omerAnd yes I'm bloody angry.Sep 05 18:59
[H]omerI have a right.Sep 05 18:59
[H]omerI have the right to Free SpeechSep 05 18:59
[H]omerI'm exercising that right.Sep 05 18:59
schestowitzYou're' dissenting'.Sep 05 18:59
schestowitz:-)Sep 05 18:59
[H]omerI'll fight Microsoft to my dying breath.Sep 05 18:59
[H]omerOr their's ... whichever comes firstSep 05 19:00
schestowitzMicrosoft is not alone thought.Sep 05 19:00
Odd_Bloke"Microsoft is the *only* threat".Sep 05 19:00
schestowitzThe nproblem is that there's a leftover of Gateocrats who keep the wealth flowing among the clique.Sep 05 19:00
[H]omer *only* threat to *IT*Sep 05 19:01
schestowitzTo FOSS, not ITSep 05 19:01
[H]omerThere are threats in other areas of societySep 05 19:01
Odd_BlokeOK, I take your point.Sep 05 19:01
schestowitzApple could rise to be a threat to IT as it is to other things like copyrights monopoly 'industry'Sep 05 19:01
schestowitzThe main issue is broader.Sep 05 19:01
schestowitzSharing of knowledge for starters.Sep 05 19:02
[H]omerActually no ... *IT*. Microsoft are even a threat to standards; other companies, and even their own partners (PlaysForSure).Sep 05 19:02
schestowitzRMS does too recognises that sharing is key and education is a route to means.Sep 05 19:02
schestowitzHogging culture is blamed not only for bribes but also for endless pursuit for power (=wealth)Sep 05 19:02
schestowitzAnd objestively speaking, the gap between poor and rich widens.Sep 05 19:03
[H]omerI have to go eat. Back in about an hour.Sep 05 19:03
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleepSep 05 19:03
schestowitzFOSS was born as a partly political movement in the sense that engineers want their machines  to serve /them/, not other mastersSep 05 19:03
*seller_liar (n=seller_l@201-43-36-206.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellSep 05 19:17
schestowitzGeez. They attack Fry now? http://www.itpro.co.uk/605877/step... (      Stephen Fry celebrates open source, attacks Microsoft and Apple  )Sep 05 19:22
schestowitzit's just like those attacks on Stallman after he had criticised Microsoft in the MSBBC)Sep 05 19:22
schestowitzseller_liar: just found this one which you might want to see: http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/hprw/...Sep 05 19:23
schestowitz"Brazil, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire-HISPANIC PR WIRE/ -- BuscaPe.com Group ( http://www.buscape.com ), which is owner of the largest Comparison Shopping Network in Latin America..." More media control, of which you can find plenty, but this one is different (service). Nonetheless, there's money on the table, which can affect editorial bias.Sep 05 19:24
Odd_Blokeschestowitz: How is that an attack on Stephen Fry?Sep 05 19:24
schestowitzRead it.Sep 05 19:24
schestowitzThe headlineSep 05 19:25
Odd_BlokeJust did.Sep 05 19:25
schestowitzI wrote about it a week ago (headline massaging): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Sep 05 19:25
Odd_BlokeI should probably watch the video as well.Sep 05 19:25
Odd_BlokeBRB.Sep 05 19:25
Odd_BlokeOK, my connection is too slow to stream it.Sep 05 19:26
schestowitzI notice that Paul Krill is still boosting some Microsoft (there's discomforting history there): http://www.infoworld.com/article/...Sep 05 19:27
seller_liarschestowitz: thanks roy, i will readSep 05 19:28
schestowitzMore Microsoft investments in broadcasting (=possible bias): Microsoft to be among 13 investors in NHK satellite channel ( http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor... )Sep 05 19:35
schestowitzFUDMesiter Hauser: "More recently Hauser played a strategic role on Microsoft’s Law and Corporate Affairs, Intellectual Property Leadership team where she worked on Microsoft’s relationship with Novell and its efforts on interoperability.  She was instrumental role in developing Microsoft’s first Interop Executive Customer Council with 45 worldwide CIO’s across commercial and public sector customers, added Scott."Sep 05 19:38
schestowitzhttp://blogs.bankingtech.com/blo...Sep 05 19:38
schestowitzMore information about the media investment: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10032493-75.html ( Microsoft and 12 others invest in Japanese TV )Sep 05 19:41
seller_liardrm in NHK?Sep 05 19:49
seller_liarIs Nhk public?Sep 05 19:50
schestowitzI'm not sure. I haven't chekced.Sep 05 19:54
schestowitzThe power of manipulation: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor...Sep 05 20:03
schestowitzA stranger has just E-mailed me this: "taking clues from the fsf movement and reading behind the lifes of linus and rms. http://thebookonlife.googlepages.com its just 21 pages." it's amazing how much work is being put into writing that's rarely published.Sep 05 20:08
seller_liarschestowitz: thanks roySep 05 20:08
schestowitzGates/Davis 'forgets' Adobe :-S http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-219799.html  (seems like usual Zeedee fluff)Sep 05 20:09
schestowitzOther notice this too: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9...Sep 05 20:10
schestowitz"I don't get it... Flash is ubiquitous.. it's on almost every PC out there and has a huge developer base behind it, yet these people are implying Silverlight is THE platform to beat. What does Silverlight have that Flash doesn't (besides a huge bankroll behind it and some very green developers)?"Sep 05 20:10
schestowitzEven gary Edwards weighed in: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208...Sep 05 20:11
seller_liarschestowitz: why people do not use java fxSep 05 20:11
schestowitzIt's not being hyped by shills.Sep 05 20:12
schestowitzMicrosoft has known boosters in ZDNETSep 05 20:12
schestowitzI caught one here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/...Sep 05 20:12
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/... 'The author of the email, posted on ZDNet in a Talkback forum on the Microsoft antitrust trial, claimed her name was Michelle Bradley and that she had “retired” from Microsoft last week. “A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said.'Sep 05 20:13
seller_liarschestowitz: lobo have native java FxSep 05 20:19
schestowitzLobo?Sep 05 20:22
seller_liarhttp://lobobrowser.org/Sep 05 20:25
schestowitzThey should do that at Mozilla too perhaps, just as they do with Ogg. JavaFX is GPLv2-edSep 05 20:25
seller_liaryesSep 05 20:26
schestowitz"Wow, a tough day for Windows. BusinessWeek reports that HP, the world’s biggest PC company, is so troubled by Vista’s ‘tepid reception’ and Apple’s resurgence that it is developing its own operating system. Meanwhile a New York Times columnist writes on his blog that Windows is “already dying a death by a thousand cuts.”"Sep 05 20:27
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=219Sep 05 20:28
schestowitzhttp://www.businessweek.com/techn...Sep 05 20:28
schestowitz"Others in HP's PC division are exploring the possibility of building an HP operating system for mainstream desktop and notebook computers based on the open-source Linux system, which competes with Windows, say people familiar with the company's plans."Sep 05 20:28
seller_liaraix?!Sep 05 20:28
seller_liarno , hp-ux?!Sep 05 20:28
Odd_Blokeseller_liar: "which competes with Windows"? :pSep 05 20:31
seller_liarOdd_Bloke: I knowSep 05 20:31
seller_liarschestowitz: hp chances are very lowSep 05 20:32
seller_liarschestowitz: strange....Sep 05 20:33
schestowitzYes, I know. I wrote about their strong tie with Microsoft this morning.Sep 05 20:33
seller_liarschestowitz: my friend was trying to running virtual box in your computer ,and thenSep 05 20:34
schestowitzThe almost-criminal former CEO is now helping McCain (and his interests)Sep 05 20:34
seller_liarschestowitz: virtualbox did not pass in certification tests!!!Sep 05 20:34
schestowitzMcCain is surrounded by the likes of Microsoft, which he openly /supports/.Sep 05 20:34
schestowitzBray on post 3000: "And inside Sun software, the hottest creative energies are going into JavaFX (unfortunately, I just don’t get whole RIA thing) and OpenSolaris’ IPS (unfortunately, I’m a packaging moron) and multi-language NetBeans (they don’t need much help... well, I do report bugs). I’m internally pushing some ideas that I think could be impactful; but it feels like an in-between time." ( http://www.tbray.org/ongoinSep 05 20:36
schestowitzg/When/200x/2008/09/05/Three-Thousand-and-One )Sep 05 20:36
schestowitzhttp://www.tbray.org/ongo...Sep 05 20:36
schestowitzseller_liar: Sun's xVM, AKA VirtualBox 2.0, what certification is it? Sun was bragging about standards adherence yesterday, on the same day as the xVM (desktop) announcement  Sep 05 20:37
seller_liarschestowitz: my friend did not give more information for me, but m$ does not permit to install neither vbox 2 and 1.6Sep 05 20:38
schestowitzThere's another issue I'll write about later:  http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index... (probably Maritz, which sells out to his former employer, partner of 'father' EMC)Sep 05 20:39
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schestowitzhttp://standardsandfreedom.net/index... "Yo do what they want you yo do. You spread the brainwash."Sep 05 20:48
schestowitzThere are so many people even in the FOSS community that play along with Microsoft's Viral Advertising campaign, which is unfortunate.Sep 05 20:49
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MinceRbenJIman: i don't post articles because i don't have time to write them.Sep 05 21:13
MinceRalso, i'm not really a writer.Sep 05 21:13
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schestowitzNice username for a puppet: Path:   border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!ecngs!feeder 2.ecngs.de!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!194.159 .246.34.MISMATCH!peer-uk.news.demon. net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.u k!demon!ellandroad.demon.c o.uk!not-for-mailSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Message-ID:   <4498071.XgFttn5xIF@schestowitz.com>Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  From:   Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com>Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Newsgroups:   comp.os.linux.advocacySep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Subject:   [News] GNU/Linux Fest in Atlanta and Many More Conferences ComingSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Date:   Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:56:02 +0000Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Lines:   158Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  NNTP-Posting-Host:   ellandroad.demon.co.ukSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Mime-Version:   1.0Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=utf-8Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Content-Transfer-Encoding:   8BitSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-Trace:   news.demon.co.uk 1220450642 22322 80.177.9.133 (3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 GMT)Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-Complaints-To:   abuse@demon.netSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  NNTP-Posting-Date:   Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 +0000 (UTC)Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-Face:   .dYWu:H1\ 3ib`=T*Zoi9{>C].hHmdJ #z~":dJ5pFYAC`jJ6 I~pf</F~#Sp(\[J6OgtE BO"[ @'u^%Ia#bVQ hL%Cw#^nU FCIAEjS=M(B6B'& gt;OUrp)Y"ZY}Z\Y ~`g#I,JSw?7"3& amp;Fctfk^)\]8{j[7 )M Nj%-#0a}S+ *8oFlP^l,>&Y^1yhEYGz7>sv*' OuW}a9Oq}:<Ra*`;',O G@O=wj0mp'{Q |hbDm&yS-#r m;DM)4S$!IX22Ou)-Y ^lh[pu6VX8Dh0dG &Fv[54aJZeX*L AV]2w9wSR15Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-Priority:   3Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-Homepage:   http://schestowitz.comSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  User-Agent:   KNode/0.10.9Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-War:   No, thank youSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  X-OpenPGP:   id=74572E8E; url=http://schestowitz.com/PGPSep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Bytes:   6851Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Xref:   ellandroad.demon.co.uk comp.os.linux.advocacy:685769Sep 05 23:04
schestowitzMessage was signed by Roy Schestowitz <sch@danielsorogon.com> (Key ID: 0x74572E8E).Sep 05 23:04
schestowitzThe signature is valid and the key is ultimately trusted.Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz  Atlanta Linux Fest 2008Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz| On Saturday, September 20th, 2008, the Atlanta Linux Fest will be the placeSep 05 23:04
schestowitz| to learn, discuss, and discover Linux. There will be demos of variousSep 05 23:04
schestowitz| distributions, as well as an install fest for new users to try out Live CDsSep 05 23:04
schestowitz| and get help with Linux installations.Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz`----Sep 05 23:04
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxpr.com/releases/10847.htmlSep 05 23:04
schestowitzhttp://atlantalinuxfest.org/Sep 05 23:04
schestowitzUpcoming open source & web conferencesSep 05 23:04
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz| -Zend confereSep 05 23:04
schestowitzBlech.Sep 05 23:04
schestowitzNice username for a puppet: http://www.fsdaily.com/users/boycottboycottnovell.com  (They are gaming FSDaily again)Sep 05 23:05
*MinceR proposes boycottboycottboycottnovell.comSep 05 23:24
schestowitz1.. 2.. 3... oh yeah, many negatives, I guess. Either way, they seem to be playing that site again, just like they did before when there was a 'revolt'Sep 05 23:26
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*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellSep 05 23:41
*kentma (n=user@host86-155-238-140.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellSep 05 23:56


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