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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 9th, 2008 - Part 1


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jose__nevermind my mistakeOct 09 00:00
schestowitzThis works: 09 00:00
schestowitzMicrosoft's new tack: Bribery as a business model : 09 00:00
jose__i had garbage on the clipboard because of something i didOct 09 00:00
schestowitzIs Microsoft spamming websites to boost its numbers? : 09 00:00
schestowitzMicrosoft funding bankrupt Live Search experiment with porn spam : 09 00:00
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Club Live fiasco: 09 00:00
schestowitzBots Helped To Boost Microsoft Live Search Gains : 09 00:01
jose__the clublive fiasco gave me an errorOct 09 00:03
jose__microsoft's antics discredit any value advertizers might have found in their searchesOct 09 00:05
jose__searches -> search statsOct 09 00:05
jose__actually, paying someone to do something else can be legit.. for example this may lead to genuine new salesOct 09 00:06
jose__but gimmicks that obviously would be gamed by the players destroys brand valueOct 09 00:07
schestowitzCan't get much worse, can it?Oct 09 00:10
schestowitzSo much dross in the feeds today.Oct 09 00:10
schestowitzLeading to fatigue and boredom. If only there was a 'magic' feed that culls out the garbage.Oct 09 00:10
schestowitz 09 00:14
jose__i'm thinking.. those companies that don't institute buybacks and time those properly (and maybe even go into debt) might end up being washed down the drain and bought out later on for cheap by one of those that survivedOct 09 00:15
schestowitzOligarchy.Oct 09 00:15
jose__i remember looking and seeing that proprietary oracle had a high market cap so they might want to buy foss assetsOct 09 00:16
schestowitzThey already have.Oct 09 00:17
jose__i'm thinking that novell and redhat could become likely candidates if they aren't carefulOct 09 00:18
jose__the consolidating will allow a few to hold ground and gain value while others get wiped out for those holding sharesOct 09 00:18
schestowitz 09 00:19
jose__sun is about 1/100th of their size at their peakOct 09 00:19
jose__haven't checked ibm but i think they have heldOct 09 00:19
schestowitzYes, they have.Oct 09 00:19
jose__the big names and the dow jones have likely held in most casesOct 09 00:19
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack cheerleading win32, as usual: 09 00:24
jose__i don't think aapl will hold but could only guess.. they may have already had their run at the top (like sun did). they cater to high paying customers and are pressured by too many competitors at the lower endOct 09 00:26
jose__people love apple and that will hurt them chances are.Oct 09 00:26
jose__to pull off the effect, steve j might retire after all.. "for health reasons"Oct 09 00:27
jose__but this wouldn't be announced until the price was lower or else too many would sell out at onceOct 09 00:28
jose__whatever.. i just throw things out thereOct 09 00:28
schestowitzDid you see what Wox sayOct 09 00:29
jose__without having insider access and/or lots of money i can only guessOct 09 00:29
jose__noOct 09 00:29
schestowitzWoz... about the cash cow?Oct 09 00:29
jose__ipods?Oct 09 00:29
schestowitz 09 00:29
schestowitz"As far as the fanboys are concerned, Woz speaks heresy when he compares the Iphone SDK limitations to Google's Android. He said that punters were not getting all they want when companies are proprietary and lock their products down. He said he would like to write some more powerful apps for the Iphone than you're allowed."Oct 09 00:30
jose__dropping the price slow (when news is not clear) means that many share in the drop instead of just the same groupOct 09 00:30
jose__those are some fresh stinging words from people near the topOct 09 00:32
jose__goodbye apple brandOct 09 00:32
jose__the 3g iphone prob thing (??) may not have been that accidentalOct 09 00:32
jose__business cycle and apple not destined to remain at the topOct 09 00:32
jose__it may have been prematurely introduced .. this hurts the brandOct 09 00:33
jose__your link is very recent (that's what I mean by fresh words).. stinging because of whose thoughts they representOct 09 00:33
jose__here is the quote exactly:Oct 09 00:34
jose__Woz also said that both Steve Jobs and him hated Apple fanboys who are too stupid to question anything the company does and defend its failures.Oct 09 00:34
jose__""Oct 09 00:34
jose__ouchOct 09 00:34
jose__conveniently shorting is not allowed in times like this.. if you didn't make your money already, you have to wait for the next train sometime in the futureOct 09 00:35
jose__shorting: us market laws.. not sure about the ukOct 09 00:35
jose__sorry, I am writing so badly. if you don't understand something i typed, ask.Oct 09 00:37
jose__I'm sorry that I am writing so badly. .. lol, i'm tired. I'm not an english teacher, etc. especially not on ircOct 09 00:38
schestowitzYou qrite fastOct 09 00:38
schestowitzThat's goodOct 09 00:38
schestowitzYes you let slip less typos then meOct 09 00:38
schestowitzthanOct 09 00:38
schestowitzI'm also easting ATM, which is why I don't respondOct 09 00:39
schestowitz*eatingOct 09 00:39
jose__stop trying to write so horribly on purpose. I don't ask for sympathy. :-POct 09 00:39
jose__i misuse the grammar.. ignorance is bliss.Oct 09 00:40
schestowitz5 days :   No reply (post) from SutorOct 09 00:42
schestowitzIBM just hardly says a thing, Weir being the exception, I guess.Oct 09 00:42
jose__are you talking about the comment above yours about federated virtual worlds and some company?Oct 09 00:43
schestowitzNo, just the linksOct 09 00:44
schestowitzOh waitOct 09 00:45
schestowitzDId he remove the link??Oct 09 00:45
schestowitzIt pointed to Heise about Microsoft hijacked ODF.Oct 09 00:45
schestowitzMaybe I just forgot the linkOct 09 00:45
jose__maybeOct 09 00:49
schestowitzIt's possible cause I dropped it there (OT) in a rushOct 09 00:49
schestowitzPasser-by comments.Oct 09 00:50
schestowitzheise really covered that discussion you had about leap year: 09 00:50
jose__you posted that already a little while ago.. i haven't finished it.. i did notice it mentioned the date thingOct 09 00:52
schestowitzThis one seems fishy: they do Web polls: 09 00:55
schestowitzMicrosoft is notorious having caught gaming these.Oct 09 00:55
schestowitzWindows Outstuffs Linux in Poll 09 00:55
schestowitz"Linux users are accusing the Microsoft-affiliated news site of tampering with  the results of an online poll. They believe that the numbers were altered to ensure that a Microsoft-made system was chosen as the winner."Oct 09 00:55
schestowitz.Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services 09 00:56
schestowitz"ZDNet UK logs reveal rather obvious vote rigging, and prove that it originated from within Microsoft:"Oct 09 00:56
jose__well they were forward enough to mention that it was a self-selecting pollOct 09 00:57
jose__..the eetimes linkOct 09 00:57
schestowitzYes.Oct 09 00:58
schestowitz 09 00:59
schestowitz"The survey was conducted as a "straw poll," with a self-selecting audience, cautions EE Times Europe, which did not reveal the number of respondents in the poll. The poll was conducted as a single-question survey on the website's front page. Presumably, the readers were primarily located in Europe."Oct 09 00:59
schestowitz"In April, meanwhile, VDC released results from its annual survey of embedded engineers and found that Linux once again reigned as the leading embedded OS. The study reported that 18 percent of respondents were using embedded Linux, up from 15.5 percent back in 2004."Oct 09 00:59
schestowitzThe question is: 1) was it gamed? 2) who by?Oct 09 01:00
jose__"Reichard also notes that at some point during the poll Linux "magically" lost votes. "At one point Linux had 37 percent of 37,000, which works out to just over 14,000 votes. But when the voting reached 205,000, the poll showed Linux had 6 percent, which is only about 12,000 votes.""Oct 09 01:00
jose__practice for ooxmlOct 09 01:00
schestowitz*LOL*Oct 09 01:00
schestowitzClassicOct 09 01:00
jose__linux 1%Oct 09 01:02
jose__iis gaining on apache significantlyOct 09 01:02
jose__practice for the florida, us electionsOct 09 01:03
schestowitzjose__: Microsoft'bribes' hosts for parked domains (cheap tweaking)Oct 09 01:04
schestowitzApache has beaten IIS for several  months now.Oct 09 01:04
jose__yeah, i know about thatOct 09 01:04
schestowitz 09 01:05
schestowitz 09 01:05
schestowitz "Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux," he said. "How  are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don't like it. ... We have some  work to do."Oct 09 01:05
jose__eventually they will have to pick between buying stock from bg or paying godaddyOct 09 01:06
schestowitzOpen Source Fights Back  "Perens: Not the first. It's part of a continuing behavior pattern byOct 09 01:06
schestowitz| Microsoft that I think it's fair to call "dirty fighting." GoDaddy was using Apache (I assume on Linux) because it was a great technical solution. They didn't switch to IIS on Windows Server 2003 for any technical reason. The switch was accompanied by a press release by  GoDaddy, containing Microsoft promotional language. Oct 09 01:06
schestowitzCorruption as a Business Mofel (CaBM)Oct 09 01:06
jose__Mofel --> ModelOct 09 01:07
jose__or MafiaOct 09 01:07
jose__freudian slip?Oct 09 01:07
jose__perens was hosting parked domains.. not sure if he still is.. as quasi publicity stunt and to help linux outOct 09 01:07
jose__to make up for godaddy and similar dealsOct 09 01:08
jose__with msOct 09 01:08
jose__microsoft may have made money from apple stock.. and they may even end up buying pieces of them..Oct 09 01:09
jose__yes, i am doing the obituary a bit prematurely i knowOct 09 01:09
jose__ms icrapOct 09 01:10
schestowitzThey get their money's worth... OOXML, fonts, Office tax (monopoly, monoculture)...Oct 09 01:10
schestowitzApple is still a b*tch of Microsoft, but Apple 'fanboy' loathe and deny the thought.Oct 09 01:11
schestowitzSame with SUSE fans, who fail to realise that Novell is now a spouse of Microsoft.Oct 09 01:11
jose__foss as the entre to the lock-in "higher quality" productOct 09 01:12
jose__entreeOct 09 01:12
jose__the owner of the copyrights gets advantageOct 09 01:13
jose__help suse and you help novell but this might equate to microsoft..Oct 09 01:13
jose__then again maybe not.Oct 09 01:13
jose__ibm has some holdings in novell rightOct 09 01:13
jose__novell likely wants to sell proprietary licenses.Oct 09 01:14
schestowitzYesOct 09 01:14
schestowitzIBM is there tooOct 09 01:14
jose__but being ms bqtch means guess who may get first dibs or good pricingOct 09 01:14
schestowitz 09 01:14
schestowitzNovell is better for Microsoft when it appears independent.Oct 09 01:15
schestowitzIt can spread the Mono  bomb to more distros that don't realise it's from Mcirosoft really.Oct 09 01:15
jose__i agree with the independent bitOct 09 01:19
jose__if there is a serious tanking of stock valuations..Oct 09 01:19
schestowitzWatch mobo cslammed in the comments here:Oct 09 01:19
jose__this brave new world of the internet supported openness (foss playing a large role)..Oct 09 01:20
jose__will mean a certain amount of rebuildingOct 09 01:20
schestowitz"mono slammed"...   And how the author defends it. No surpirse, knowing Bruce's biasesOct 09 01:20
jose__as for independent novell..Oct 09 01:20
schestowitzThere is no independent NovellOct 09 01:20
jose__the money ms pays them would do nicely to support novl as you stated.. to ride out the stormOct 09 01:21
schestowitzIt's too dependent on Microsoft since last yearOct 09 01:21
schestowitzNovell is like some hooker Microsoft is pimping to give everyone in tow AIDS.Oct 09 01:21
jose__as for the tanking of stocks.. just wait.. imagine a second announcement (usa) that the 700 was not enough..Oct 09 01:21
schestowitz*townOct 09 01:21
jose__it doesn't look like enough to me, but i don't know exactly what it is doing or the size of numbers involvedOct 09 01:22
schestowitzWell, if they live under the illusion/bubble that 10 trillion in debt is OK, then maybe a 7 trillion bailout would seem realistic, too.Oct 09 01:22
schestowitzJust have Americans who can't afford it sell spare organs to China or something *sigh*Oct 09 01:22
schestowitzSee what fraud and corruption has wrought?Oct 09 01:23
jose__an ms holds the cure for aidsOct 09 01:23
schestowitzPatents! More patents! Penhouses. Smoking, junk food, vacation, high emissions, SUVs...Oct 09 01:23
schestowitz*PenthousesOct 09 01:23
schestowitzWell, not really, joseOct 09 01:24
schestowitzAu contraire.Oct 09 01:24
schestowitz 09 01:24
schestowitz"The chief of malaria for the World Health Organization has complained that the growing dominance of malaria research by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation risks stifling a diversity of views among scientists and wiping out the world health agency’s policy-making function"Oct 09 01:24
schestowitzBorn a monopolist with a golden spoon in his mouth... now playing the game of robber barons *steal & glory)Oct 09 01:25
jose__that's a "nice" quote about the b&m foundationOct 09 01:25
twitterthat link shows the US is already up to ACTA type shit and has the border control into a federal copyright cop. 09 01:26
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Oct 09 01:26
jose__i wonder the details of the plan he and buffett are likely cooking up through the charities.. besides funding private orgs.. and I guess monopolizing research/patentsOct 09 01:26
schestowitzEvadinf tax tooOct 09 01:27
schestowitzThe  'ordinary people' will be fed by Gates' press the idea that it's just a charityOct 09 01:28
schestowitzBill & Melinda Gates Foundation- Truth RevealedOct 09 01:28
schestowitz 09 01:28
schestowitzBill & Melinda Gates Foundation- Truth Revealed Part 2Oct 09 01:28
schestowitz 09 01:28
schestowitz "The foundation made moves in other sectors during Q3, as well, adding shares  in Caterpillar and Canadian National Railway, while maintaining  stakes in energy giants Exxon Mobil and BP. "Oct 09 01:28
schestowitzCharity... for oil companies that kill Nigerian children through bad production of cheap oil for snobs in the westOct 09 01:29
schestowitzDark cloud over good works of Gates FoundOct 09 01:29
schestowitz 09 01:29
schestowitzGates Foundation Revokes Pledge to Review Portfolio - 09 01:29
jose__how's this for stock price manipulation..though you'll never hear it be called that:Oct 09 01:29
jose__a deep pocket seeds at a price level (eg, support level)Oct 09 01:30
schestowitzYou won't hear about it in the press though. It's under BillG's control:  Bill Gates lends cash to buy newspapers - $350 million to MediaNews - 09 01:30
jose__at first, before it's clear, that level serves as a safety zone (right now AMD a bit above $4 could be similar though i expect it to crack soon)Oct 09 01:30
jose__anyway, as everything on wallstreet, once the pattern is obvious, it fails to hold up (well under normal circumstances but you have to consider what is hitting the wires and who owns what)Oct 09 01:31
jose__anyway, eventually, you get the other folks to place their limits at that price.Oct 09 01:32
jose__no, most people don't do limit orders that work.Oct 09 01:32
jose__but point is that is how you get people in large numbers to buy lowOct 09 01:32
jose__since that low then becomes a high buy as you crash below that level.. i'm bored todayOct 09 01:33
jose__analyzing the stock market is almost foolish because it's not what happens exactly as much as when it happens and who is doing whatOct 09 01:33
schestowitzGates sold 100,000 Univision shares-SEC filing 09 01:33
schestowitzGates buying the news and selling some too.Oct 09 01:33
jose__and having money and insider access really helps in determining those itemsOct 09 01:34
schestowitzThey'd better give him since coverage, or /else/...Oct 09 01:34
schestowitzMicrosoft's Bach sold more stock before Xbox news 09 01:34
schestowitzMicrosoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcement 09 01:34
twitternice search links.  I'm going to add them to the previous link and resubmit it.Oct 09 01:34
schestowitzInside trading.Oct 09 01:34
schestowitzAnd Robbie Bach stayed out of jailOct 09 01:34
schestowitzThe SEC fell asleep.Oct 09 01:34
schestowitzSee, rich people can commit crimes and never even be investigated.Oct 09 01:35
schestowitz.That's why, in general, the ecnomy sinks.Oct 09 01:35
schestowitzEveryone commits fraud and no regulation body even caresOct 09 01:35
jose__roy, this link is dead as become all similar yahoo links 09 01:41
schestowitzYes, Yahoo is bad.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzYou can find it by headline.Oct 09 01:42
twitterfinally all caught upOct 09 01:42
schestowitzJust got this E-mail about Microsoft's games in Slashdot, among other things.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzHi, Roy,Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzThere are also countless of SME's in Europe that make their money fromOct 09 01:42
schestowitzopen source and contribute to improvement of specific packages.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzSometimes the improvements are small, incremental ones.  Other times,Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzthey are larger re-writes of routines, modules or whole packages.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzHow do they make money with FOSS?  Software is required to deliver justOct 09 01:42
schestowitzabout any products or services in any branch these days.  Just look atOct 09 01:42
schestowitzthe whole LAMP set up and how many 10's of millions using Linux, BSD, orOct 09 01:42
schestowitzSolaris, with Apache, Lighttpd or ngninx, with BerkeleyDB, SQL-lite,Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzMySQL or Postgresql, and held together with Perl, Python, Ruby, Java, orOct 09 01:42
schestowitzPHP.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzEven ol' Perl is seeing a resurgence to the point where the advertisingOct 09 01:42
schestowitzfirms working for Bill must pump site's like Slashdot with "me too's"Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzcovering even Perl.Oct 09 01:42
schestowitzHmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzStrong opinions... he allowed me to share in public... now watch some strong analogies...Oct 09 01:43
schestowitz"One point that Bill's faux pax regarding outsourcing makes is that heOct 09 01:43
schestowitzand his minions are well aware that while FOSS helps in a big way toOct 09 01:43
schestowitzrecession-proof small and medium-sized businesses, it's even moreOct 09 01:43
schestowitzhelpful in a downright economic depression.Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzThere's only one Osama bin Laden and one Bill Gates, why take theirOct 09 01:43
schestowitzperspective on everything, every time?Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzSome people who might know better buy into the Cult o' Bill myth thatOct 09 01:43
schestowitzsomehow there is a market for selling (or leasing) software or thatOct 09 01:43
schestowitzdevelopment relationships are only one-way, vendor-client deals.Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzYeah, among other things, core contributors get hired.  Or key featuresOct 09 01:43
schestowitzget staff time allocated towards realizing these features.  Or one couldOct 09 01:43
schestowitzwrite about the freedom to get the job done.  Bruce Perens and othersOct 09 01:43
schestowitzhave written about this occasional for most of 10 years.Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzI myself have been paid since around 1995 to contribute to FOSS.  I'mOct 09 01:43
schestowitznot a coder, but have tracked down errors or small missing improvementsOct 09 01:43
schestowitzin many packages, which got fixed.  I've also helped write documentationOct 09 01:43
schestowitzand, when I can, test development versions occasionally.Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzFor my work over the years, I've needed good software. That usuallyOct 09 01:43
schestowitzmeans I end up picking FOSS for the job, more so nowadays.  So what?Oct 09 01:43
schestowitzThe world's governments and corporations do the same."Oct 09 01:43
schestowitz..Oct 09 01:44
schestowitzWell, I'm gonna post some daily links in BN now..Oct 09 01:45
twittercool, you have collected plenty.  I'm trying to read them.  :)Oct 09 01:45
jose__ms investments in godaddy, etc, in newsforge... give them lots of information. information. plus investments in lots of major companies can lead to tremendous "insider" knowledge and access, etc..Oct 09 01:46
schestowitzYes, that too.Oct 09 01:46
schestowitzDid you see... oh, let me find it.Oct 09 01:46
jose__controlling people's OS is bad, but i guess he has all corners coveredOct 09 01:46
schestowitzToday: 09 01:47
schestowitz"The deal, which runs at least until 2012, has been treated with a great deal of suspicion by many people, partly because it can easily be construed as a way for Microsoft to get a “pet” Linux distro which it can control and use to get a better understanding of Linux and customers’ reasons for wanting to use it for its own advantage."Oct 09 01:47
jose__except that pesky google.. maybe if ms invests in enough broadband providers.. ah, but google is going wifiOct 09 01:47
schestowitzThey try to work from the inside and they harvest a lot of BI also via Windows installsOct 09 01:47
schestowitzWindows users are regularly spied for everything they have installed.Oct 09 01:47
schestowitzMicrosoft does a census of apps to know which programs it must squash or replace. The EULA permits Microsoft to do thisOct 09 01:48
jose__one thing about foss and proprietary companies..Oct 09 01:50
jose__if the key lock in portions are small.. eg, a set of functions that rank somethingOct 09 01:51
jose__then you can get 98% of the work done for cheap as foss..Oct 09 01:51
jose__and if you own the copyrights and use gplOct 09 01:51
jose__then others can't leverage it further but you can by replacing the key component within your closed productOct 09 01:51
jose__of course, gpl sw is useful to anyone from the cloudOct 09 01:52
jose__agpl needs to gain more groundOct 09 01:52
schestowitzAlso AGPLOct 09 01:52
schestowitzThey just didn't have that gentle push to say "bring some back"Oct 09 01:52
jose__eventually ms will embrace extend googles and others strategy and we will wonder why we didn't use the agpl moreOct 09 01:52
schestowitzjose__: you beat me to it.Oct 09 01:52
jose__google may be moderate, but ms isn'tOct 09 01:52
schestowitzAGPL is what GPLv3+ should have beenOct 09 01:52
jose__and remember that before anything gets to google it goes through ms windowsOct 09 01:53
schestowitzThey made a concession, but not for TiVo. Just ASP and Novell.Oct 09 01:53
jose__and seeing gates active role as an investor all over the economy can really give him the advantage over everyone elseOct 09 01:53
jose__micro soft butterfly rollinghills soft voice charity etc..Oct 09 01:54
jose__a concession for novell that helps microsoft.. i'm shocked! shocked i tell ya!Oct 09 01:54
schestowitz"soft butterfly"?Oct 09 01:55
jose__imagery of harmless itemsOct 09 01:55
jose__deceptionOct 09 01:55
jose__what microsoft is about and has been since day 1Oct 09 01:55
schestowitzSome would say "arrogant prick":... 09 01:55
jose__watch them take over OLPC the brandOct 09 01:55
jose__seriously. this branding is no accident and very keyOct 09 01:56
schestowitzYes, but Intel helped themOct 09 01:56
jose__point is that this was a great op to be associated with a great charity brandOct 09 01:56
jose__so i expect negroponte to get the 5 star treatment from msOct 09 01:57
jose__and be convinced that handing the reigns over (as has already been planned to some extent) will be wonderful for poverty etcOct 09 01:57
jose__it would be interesting for me to know the sorts of things that go through people's minds when they take this approach to life (gates' approach and those helping him)Oct 09 01:58
schestowitzGreens (UK) called it "unacceptable bribery"Oct 09 01:59
jose__they didn't get a cut (lol)Oct 09 01:59
jose__i'm kiddingOct 09 01:59
jose__partlyOct 09 01:59
jose__but mostly i supposeOct 09 01:59
jose__it can be stimulating fighting the bad guys and maybe being the bad guys, but surely there are other interesting challenges during a person's adult lifeOct 09 02:00
schestowitzI wrote a lot about OLPC.Oct 09 02:02
schestowitzThe Wintel press tried to rewrite history.Oct 09 02:02
jose__this link you gaveOct 09 02:03
jose__a sure ms pieceOct 09 02:03
jose__slogOct 09 02:03
jose__crowd out the good stuff:Oct 09 02:03
jose__ms sw is inevitableOct 09 02:03
jose__note ms software mentions and novell at top of all lists depite them being smaller players in respective categories (virt for ms and linux for novell)Oct 09 02:04
jose__vmware and redhat got knocked down the listOct 09 02:04
schestowitzThe guy who wrote this is not a MicrosofterOct 09 02:04
schestowitzSilliness for sure.Oct 09 02:05
jose__no?Oct 09 02:05
jose__hmmmOct 09 02:05
schestowitzBut I very much doubt he's a shill gives past things he wrote.Oct 09 02:05
schestowitzI haven't read it carefully though.Oct 09 02:05
jose__mixed environments sound like a dealOct 09 02:05
jose__but they allow microvell to crowd out red hatOct 09 02:05
jose__the lindependence thing.Oct 09 02:06
jose__an extension, using that same brand, is going to be done in portlandOct 09 02:06
jose__seeing value (and avenue) there suse jumped on the boat quicklyOct 09 02:07
jose__other distros really need to take this issue seriouslyOct 09 02:07
jose__microsoft linux (via "independent" novell) is not a jokeOct 09 02:07
jose__it's an ugly situation with suse/novell. whatever independence these have from microsoft it clearly still leverages and requires the ms monopoliesOct 09 02:08
schestowitzMicrosoft hopes to create a mixOct 09 02:09
jose__so to accept their position is to accept microsoftOct 09 02:09
schestowitzA mix it /wons/Oct 09 02:09
schestowitz /owns/Oct 09 02:09
jose__to accept the wolf living on the top bunk of novell's foss bunkbedOct 09 02:09
schestowitzIn the sense that it makes money from GNU/Linux and uses that mix to compete with pure FOSS.Oct 09 02:09
schestowitzNovell is part of that mix and names itself a mixed-source company.Oct 09 02:09
jose__and takes that money away from companies like red hat that have real stakes in a healthy foss environmentOct 09 02:10
schestowitzNovell does not compete against Microsoft anymore. Just visit and see for yourself.Oct 09 02:10
schestowitzIt's against UNIX and Red Hat primarily.Oct 09 02:10
schestowitzIt's about spreading .NET, OOXML and other such junk.Oct 09 02:11
jose__dumping if necessary.. anything so that the opposition starves (BN)Oct 09 02:11
schestowitzThey even hijack OOo from Sun with go-oo, which is a Microsoftised vrsion of OOo (Mono, VB, OOXML, etc)Oct 09 02:11
jose__i've kept up with those details through here. i knowOct 09 02:11
schestowitzMicrosoft fonts too.Oct 09 02:11
schestowitzNovell makes OOo and other software work better/only in WIndows.Oct 09 02:11
schestowitzYes, I wrote about the dumping.Oct 09 02:12
schestowitzI was told stories I can't publish either.Oct 09 02:12
schestowitzThey are willing to lose money just to ensure ReD Hat doesn't make any, either.Oct 09 02:12
jose__yupOct 09 02:12
jose__the starving game.. will the fat man or the thin man win?Oct 09 02:13
jose__who has more reserves.Oct 09 02:13
jose__the economic down cycle is to "weed" the thin men from the fat menOct 09 02:13
schestowitzThey try this in consoles too... Netscape..Oct 09 02:13
jose__no insult meant to any "thin" or "fat" menOct 09 02:13
schestowitzNo need for scare quotes.Oct 09 02:14
schestowitzDidn't you see Microsoft's CEO? ;-0Oct 09 02:14
jose__i like this conversation but i have to force myself to bed as soon as i can manage itOct 09 02:15
schestowitznOct 09 02:15
schestowitznpOct 09 02:15
schestowitzI need to sleep myself soon. Had just 3.5 hrs of sleep yesterdatyOct 09 02:16
jose__it's about taking it easy, recognizing you have a limited number of friends, and that most of the rest don't matter much...Oct 09 02:21
jose__that might be an answer to what i asked earlier.. about what goes through the minds of people like gatesOct 09 02:21
schestowitzThey just want money, fame, and for history to forget their crimes and glorify them.Oct 09 02:22
jose__it's a different world.. billions, even millions.. very different when you live that lifestyle vs. a more tamed lifestyleOct 09 02:23
schestowitzThey stomp on people for money.Oct 09 02:24
jose__wouldn't mind walking in gates shoes for a while.. you know, to appreciate his pov ..Oct 09 02:24
jose__:-POct 09 02:24
schestowitzIt's an educational issue where money is seen as the measure of a person's success.Oct 09 02:24
jose__lolOct 09 02:24
schestowitzEllison is the sameOct 09 02:24
jose__yeah, what is success..Oct 09 02:24
schestowitz“Strive not to be a man of success, but rather strive to be a man of value.” --Albert EinsteinOct 09 02:25
jose__a drug to feel goodOct 09 02:25
jose__usually something is being masked.Oct 09 02:25
jose__in any case, gates must live through some interesting scenariosOct 09 02:25
jose__but it must not feel good to be so disliked by so manyOct 09 02:25
jose__perhaps the charity thing is half genuine..Oct 09 02:25
schestowitzBillGerber [sic] GroupOct 09 02:25
jose__only halfOct 09 02:26
jose__say does bill have anything to do with those baby bottle recalls with the contaminant ..Oct 09 02:27
jose__he should stick to softwareOct 09 02:27
jose__one day an asteroid will threaten the planetOct 09 02:27
schestowitzI can't remember.Oct 09 02:27
schestowitzThere was some scandals with shots in AfricaOct 09 02:27
jose__after it's resolved that mars and the moon won't support lifeOct 09 02:27
jose__and that hoarding won't work eitherOct 09 02:28
schestowitzjose__: *LOL* no, civilisation will be ruined before that.Oct 09 02:28
jose__we, even bill, will pull togetherOct 09 02:28
jose__and life happily ever afterOct 09 02:28
schestowitzWe're already destorying the fauna and flora and leading to rising sea levels.Oct 09 02:28
schestowitzEnjoy Miami while you can.Oct 09 02:28
schestowitzGet a boat to replace the house.Oct 09 02:28
jose__i can live elsewhereOct 09 02:28
jose__it is sad all the things lostOct 09 02:28
jose__that's life  and death i supposeOct 09 02:29
schestowitzNa...Oct 09 02:29
schestowitzI wish...Oct 09 02:29
jose__the circle of doomOct 09 02:29
schestowitzIt's an oxymoron anyway -- life after deathOct 09 02:29
jose__acumbamatataOct 09 02:30
schestowitz"dying only to be reborn?"Oct 09 02:30
jose__death before lifeOct 09 02:30
schestowitzHeheOct 09 02:30
schestowitzThere was a funny cartoon about starting life at 70 and going backwards.Oct 09 02:30
jose__i wonder what sort of religion grabs you when you live in that special world "above" everyone elseOct 09 02:31
twitterdon't forget M$'s facebook investment.Oct 09 02:31
schestowitzWhen you due, you can't take you money /with/ you. :-)Oct 09 02:31
jose__mork and mindy.. it was a real showOct 09 02:31
schestowitzSome people just die early from work stress and all the money they worked for is worthless.Oct 09 02:31
schestowitzKilling oneself in the name of numbers.Oct 09 02:32
jose__but if history judges you well....Oct 09 02:32
jose__look king tut was affected by life after deathOct 09 02:32
schestowitzNow we have reality 'shows'Oct 09 02:32
schestowitzIt's cheaper for produccers to makeOct 09 02:32
schestowitzGet some boyz and girlz, toss them in a house, give them half-ripped blouses and off you goOct 09 02:33
jose__"reality" shows?Oct 09 02:33
jose__common people are boringOct 09 02:33
schestowitzYeah, wqhatever.Oct 09 02:33
jose__that was the lesson the first day before they hired the actorsOct 09 02:33
jose__seriously though, we are suckers for hollywoodOct 09 02:33
schestowitzMe? No.Oct 09 02:34
schestowitzHollywood make a fantsy.Oct 09 02:34
jose__i understand why.. marvel comics.. the whole superhuman life thingOct 09 02:34
schestowitzWork hard, be successful and be liked.Oct 09 02:34
jose__but you don't do 9 to 5Oct 09 02:34
schestowitzOf course, most people die without ever fulfilling that dream, which kept them motivated.Oct 09 02:34
jose__you do 9 to 8:30 the next dayOct 09 02:34
jose__i'll win the lottery for sure.Oct 09 02:35
schestowitzAnd human's very nature, which cannot be changed, is to carry on destorying the surroundings, so there's no point trying to prevent it. You can slow it down though.Oct 09 02:35
jose__voluntary taxes..Oct 09 02:35
schestowitzImprove health and wealth in Africa and experts say that birth rates will only increase to facilitate ability to raise the children better.Oct 09 02:35
schestowitzSo congestion is an issue. China make a startOct 09 02:36
jose__well overpopulation is problem.. i mean if you wanted to make the attemptOct 09 02:36
jose__rightOct 09 02:36
schestowitzAnother issue are the nuclear bombs, which knowledge makes, well.. inevitable.Oct 09 02:36
schestowitzThe catalyst for attacks can be a depression or environmental catastrophe (hunger, anger).Oct 09 02:37
jose__did 1 million people really die along the mari??? line france/germany in wwIOct 09 02:38
jose__i saw a documentary... brits being sent to their absolute sure death in front of german machine gunsOct 09 02:38
jose__over and overOct 09 02:38
jose__that's a lottery i hope not to winOct 09 02:39
jose__withdraw my entry, mam.Oct 09 02:39
schestowitzLottery is fantasy.Oct 09 02:40
schestowitzLike catching football, as opposed to playing.Oct 09 02:40
jose__no..Oct 09 02:40
jose__i CAN catch a footballOct 09 02:40
twitterWow, that deposition was really bad.  I've seen it before but most of it must have been cut out.Oct 09 02:41
jose__these human emotions (made possible through a lack of information) is what fuels the stock marketOct 09 02:41
jose__buy high sell low ..and if it's dropping.. hold because it might just be a lottery ticketOct 09 02:41
jose__to be fair, the rules are stacked against the small "investor"Oct 09 02:42
schestowitzSharing the losses.Oct 09 02:42
jose__through inferior access to information mostlyOct 09 02:42
jose__and other rulesOct 09 02:43
schestowitzWall Street types and big bank employees have had their days of glory and Armani suits.Oct 09 02:43
schestowitzNot it's,back to reality.Oct 09 02:43
jose__well, business students are supposedly nervous nowadaysOct 09 02:43
jose__all of that money in education for what?Oct 09 02:43
jose__i don't knowOct 09 02:43
schestowitzGood riddence to /some/ of the corruption.Oct 09 02:43
schestowitzLots more to come, I assure toy.Oct 09 02:44
jose__you won't kill business as they say.. it will morph and the rules will change againOct 09 02:44
schestowitzMicrosoft has yet to have more corruption revealed, AFAIK.Oct 09 02:44
twitterI don't think people must destroy their surroundings and I certainly want to see poverty eradicated in African and elsewhere!Oct 09 02:44
schestowitzManager jailed some months ago... lingering allegations and some 'settlements' with the SEC (i.e. pay for guilt to be swept under the rug)Oct 09 02:44
schestowitzNovell too has admitted cheating.Oct 09 02:45
twitterPeople need resources but education and government transparency allows for sustainable use.Oct 09 02:45
schestowitzI sometimes think that finance types are more dishonest than marketing people.Oct 09 02:45
jose__the stock market is nothing but indirectionOct 09 02:45
jose__billgates is likely loved LOVED for good reasonOct 09 02:45
schestowitzPeople tried to redeem SA(merica), but the CIA types serving America $$ assassinates them or embargoed them.Oct 09 02:46
twitterExperts who say, "Improve health and wealth in Africa and experts say that birth rates will only increase to facilitate ability to raise the children better" offend me.Oct 09 02:46
schestowitzI'm not talking about socialist typesOct 09 02:46
jose__1%? of the population can't have half the wealth if the game was fair now could they?Oct 09 02:46
schestowitzWatch what happens in Brazil now... e.g. OOXML, Windows dumpingOct 09 02:46
schestowitztwitter: I can't recall the quote well.Oct 09 02:47
schestowitzMy dad read a book about it.Oct 09 02:47
twitterYou cold just as easily say "Destroy health and wealth in Europe and birth rates will only decrease to adjust"Oct 09 02:47
jose__seriously, birth control is crucial if you want to avoid wars etcOct 09 02:47
twitter"White man's burden."?Oct 09 02:47
schestowitzWanting to help the poor is not always a solution to everything, which is why we're pretty much f* because of human nature.Oct 09 02:47
twitterWe should treat everyone as we would be treated ourselves.Oct 09 02:48
schestowitztwitter: yes, either that or war, as history implied or showed before. It's scary stuff.Oct 09 02:48
schestowitzI'd rather see the system cleaned /NOW/ (meaning the fraud at Wall Street be exposed).Oct 09 02:48
schestowitzIn addition to realisation that gas emissions must be address N O W!Oct 09 02:49
schestowitzNot in the next presidential term or "when the ecnomy stablises"Oct 09 02:49
jose__money buys.. it just does. don't expect too muchOct 09 02:49
twitterThe US presidential debates infuriated me.  The American people were being asked to sacrifice "entitlements" such as health care and retirement so that the ultra rich can get a $700,000 tax break.Oct 09 02:49
jose__solutions must appeal to many.. including those with lot's of moneyOct 09 02:49
twitterHungry people are cannon fodder.Oct 09 02:50
schestowitztwitter: the rich make the rules.Oct 09 02:50
schestowitzPyramid scheme... in some countries it's still a bit better because there's pressure 'from the bottom;Oct 09 02:50
schestowitzNo Americans took it to the street against OOXML corruptions.Oct 09 02:50
twitterPeople who want to amass wealth by war will create or take advantage of their people's missery.Oct 09 02:50
jose__twitter: i don't know the details, but letting the system fail is not goodOct 09 02:51
schestowitzAnd Billy in the Sweater made phone calls to politicians (like his grandpa) to have them flip the vote.Oct 09 02:51
jose__money is created by the gov rulesOct 09 02:51
schestowitzThat's corruption. Period. Nothing with technical analysis.Oct 09 02:51
jose__the fed "borrows" money only because that is how they wrote up the rulesOct 09 02:51
schestowitzWhich is why I have no guilt over my acts against OOXML.Oct 09 02:51
jose__the point is that you need currencies and a way to distribute it with checks and balances or it will failOct 09 02:51
twitterExposing corruption is something to be proud of.Oct 09 02:52
jose__failure of the economy/money etc only means chaos and lots of deaths and destruction to followOct 09 02:52
schestowitzMy friend reckons that the US will invade Iran soon.Oct 09 02:52
schestowitzHe sadly sings Bye Bye Miss American Pie.Oct 09 02:52
twitterRMS?Oct 09 02:52
schestowitzHeh. No.Oct 09 02:52
schestowitzMike.Oct 09 02:52
twitterMost people listening to the nutcases think the US will invade Iran.Oct 09 02:53
jose__there is no need for thatOct 09 02:53
jose__to invade anyoneOct 09 02:53
twitterThe troops have already been "surged" in.Oct 09 02:53
twitterIt's not a matter of need, it's one of greed.Oct 09 02:53
jose__i mean don't assume it will happenOct 09 02:54
twitterThe talk about Iran is just the same as the talk about Iraq was but the police state here is stronger.Oct 09 02:54
jose__where is hereOct 09 02:54
jose__us, uk?Oct 09 02:54
twitterUS Domestic spying is out of control.  The lists are made, the harassment has started.  It's unAmerican.Oct 09 02:55
twitter 09 02:56
schestowitztwitter: just posted the latest links.Oct 09 02:56
twittertip of the iceburgOct 09 02:56
twitterThere are more than a million names on the "terrorist watch list" and it is only one of many blacklists.Oct 09 02:56
schestowitzA couple at the bottom are about domestic spying.Oct 09 02:56
schestowitzThey use technology of advertisers, IMHOPOct 09 02:57
schestowitzThey create profiles and probe for behaviour.Oct 09 02:57
twitterThey have a firewall of china style tap to the entire US internetOct 09 02:57
schestowitzE-mail like GMail, pages visited,. keystrokes, Facebook connections, addresss books, etc.Oct 09 02:57
twitterLibrary check outs, books read, and so on and so forth.Oct 09 02:58
schestowitzA couple at the bottom here: 09 02:58
twitterThey listen to cell phones at will and without a warrantOct 09 02:58
schestowitzCredit cards and digital tickets for transportation.Oct 09 02:58
schestowitzIn the UK they now archives record of all the phone calls and E-mails sent.Oct 09 02:58
twitterI worked at a bank for a week this summer.  All checks are scanned and OCR'd then handed over to the feds.Oct 09 02:58
schestowitzCosts them something like $800 million, IIRCOct 09 02:58
jose__the cost of "managing" societyOct 09 02:59
schestowitzRMS says you should use cash.Oct 09 02:59
twitterEvery last check you spend in monitored.  Even cash is reputed to be RFID chipped now.Oct 09 02:59

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