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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 9th, 2008 - Part 2


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schestowitzWell going digital made a thirst for surveillance that's affordable. Is it of much use? RoI? Very doubtful. No answers, no proof.Oct 09 03:00
jose__valuable marketing infoOct 09 03:00
schestowitzSome people at Microsoft are morbid in their minds -- wanting to now log using cameras and stuff people's every movement, thought, moods, etc.Oct 09 03:00
twitterIt's purpose is to identify, track and neutralize political and economic competitionOct 09 03:01
schestowitzAlmlost as though they do reaearch on Bush contracts.Oct 09 03:01
jose__ms on every electronic device would put the government spying out of businessOct 09 03:01
schestowitzPhone serve as credit cards now.Oct 09 03:02
twitterAt least one cable TV box has a camera capable of IDing those who watch.Oct 09 03:02
schestowitzOpenMoko should take the loads her.eOct 09 03:02
schestowitz*lead hereOct 09 03:02
jose__this is why i don't want microvellOct 09 03:02
schestowitzMicrosoft patent that.. "TV watches user"Oct 09 03:03
twitterfree software should be demanded for all electronic devices or they will all be spys.  RMS does not even use a cell phone because of abuse of the systemOct 09 03:03
schestowitzit's easier to eavesdrop on mobiles.Oct 09 03:03
schestowitzSo I've heard.Oct 09 03:03
schestowitzPrivate calls are better done on landline.Oct 09 03:03
jose__guys you are breathing too hard.. are you ok.. should i call the authorities to get a better diagnosis...Oct 09 03:04
jose__what was that movie withOct 09 03:04
jose__jim carey about growing up under the watchful eye of the whole town?Oct 09 03:04
twitterAll of them can be tapped.  Cell phones have have the ability to record and transcribe before transmitting.Oct 09 03:04
jose__living in a fish bowlOct 09 03:05
jose__well, gates won't be inside it.. that's the fringe benefit of cooperatingOct 09 03:05
twitterCell phones can and have been used to record more than phone conversationsOct 09 03:05
twitterGates has got to be one of the most watched people on EarthOct 09 03:05
jose__don't scientists love prodding animals in cages and such (the scientists inside each of us)Oct 09 03:05
jose__well, government figures would be in the drivers seat more..Oct 09 03:06
jose__but i'm sure private sector titans get freebiesOct 09 03:06
schestowitzI'm told by a professor in biology that human nature is to /control/ others.Oct 09 03:06
jose__a break from the watchful eyes for good behavior or somethingOct 09 03:07
schestowitzA man's primary satisfaction is to make other do things for him/herOct 09 03:07
jose__it's interestingOct 09 03:07
schestowitzIt's something innate, apparently. Also among animals.Oct 09 03:07
jose__and you get an empowerment rushOct 09 03:07
schestowitzThat's just why there's litttle hope for ending corruption. People always want more power.Oct 09 03:07
jose__money gives you that power ...allegedlyOct 09 03:07
twitterIck.  Finger the skyOct 09 03:07
jose__oodles of money I meanOct 09 03:07
twitter 09 03:07
schestowitzEven if that means breach of law (see Gates deposition best hits)Oct 09 03:08
twitterthe biology professor's culture lead him to think that, sadOct 09 03:08
jose__i really need to force myself to go to sleepOct 09 03:09
twittersleepOct 09 03:09
jose__no one here is helpingOct 09 03:09
jose__except you twitterOct 09 03:09
jose__thanxOct 09 03:09
jose__i shall obeyOct 09 03:09
jose__why didn't you say so soonerOct 09 03:09
twittersleepOct 09 03:09
jose__zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxcv hstfhbOct 09 03:09
schestowitzgn guys. Thanks for the talk. I'm outOct 09 03:09
jose__out here tooOct 09 03:09
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twitterI have a lot to do tomorrow and need to sleep too.  Later.Oct 09 03:11
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schestowitzI sent a request for a Mono licence to Microsoft. The E-mail bounced. :-pOct 09 08:45
schestowitz /Some/ industry... companies forced to pay their abusive monopolistic, bribing competitors: 09 08:46
MinceRr4wrOct 09 08:47
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schestowitzIBM  seems optimistic < >, confirming Jose's claim that "fat" commerce survives while small ones die.Oct 09 09:02
schestowitzFacebooks sells out to manipulated, poor search: 09 09:06
schestowitz "ASUS confirmed it has experienced strong sales of both the Windows XP and Linux Eee PC versions."Oct 09 09:13
schestowitzTurns out the LinuxToday issue was a CMS issue: 09 09:18
schestowitz 09 09:23
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schestowitzMicrosoft shill, funded by no small business, is lying to the public: (these people should be investigated by the FTC for AstroTurfing).Oct 09 10:02
schestowitzEFF site is down.Oct 09 10:12
schestowitzPeople should really use Netcraft, not Alexa (Alexa=win+ie+spyware+manipulative webmasters). Some guy thinks that Slashdot's decline (it's a Microsoft zoo) is bad news for Linux. The other thing is, more Linux sites are created, growing at the expense of 'big ones'.Oct 09 10:21
schestowitzMr. OpenSUSE steps down from the board: 09 10:31 was temporarily doqnOct 09 10:43
schestowitz"amazing that corruption is excepted by the entire developed world. stunning that it has met with resistance only with some developing nations and maybe the european union. what should have been an overwhelming anger by all nations . the notion that developed nation are immune to corruption is bogus. microsoft did it in full view, without any hesitation. microsoft should be nailed for this."Oct 09 10:49
schestowitz 09 10:49
schestowitzGlyn Moody said on Wednesday, 08 October 2008 : "Indeed: it will be interesting to see if developing nations can now take the initiative in terms of reframing the standards debate."Oct 09 10:49
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trmancololOct 09 14:07
trmancoI'm laughing with this -> "Poetry, copyright violation, and OOXML"Oct 09 14:11
schestowitzWhere? Alex?Oct 09 14:24
schestowitzOOXML: the poetry of corruption and intellectual property traps.Oct 09 14:25
trmancoyesOct 09 14:26
schestowitzWell, he made the point and the files are down.Oct 09 14:30
schestowitzI never bothered to even read them. They just circulated, so I threw copies on the server, not even bothering to try and open a 6,000-page beast.Oct 09 14:31
schestowitzI didn't even realise that it was copyrighted (a standard?? Copyright?). Anyway. I realised this when the HTML version was produced (it showed up in each page).Oct 09 14:32
kentma1standards usually are copyrighted, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be circulated of necessity.  the ITU used to sell my ones, but they give them away now...Oct 09 14:37
schestowitz 09 14:40
schestowitzThe article does not mention that the files were removed after Brown's reaction and it also isn't aware of the fact that I didn't open a 5,000+ page file to see the copyrights remarks. I was under the impression that it was private because it was not final and as it was already being passed around I decided to upload it.Oct 09 14:42
schestowitzWhat caused a lot of trouble is one of the readers deciding to put it on Slashdot.Oct 09 14:43
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trmanco 09 15:07
_DougMicrosoft suffering from Google-envy ..Oct 09 15:08
_Doug 09 15:08
schestowitztrmanco: I was just looking at that ACPI complaint an hour ago.Oct 09 15:09
schestowitzPut a quote at the bottom of: 09 15:10
-_Doug-DCC Chat ( 09 15:19
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from _DougOct 09 15:19
_DougASUS releases high-end S101 netbook ..Oct 09 15:23
_Doug 09 15:23
_DougTop US lawyer hired to prepare Google-Yahoo anti-cartel case ..Oct 09 15:25
_Doug 09 15:25
_DougBut sees no problem with Microsoft-Yahoo ?Oct 09 15:26
_Doug"Novell invites you to THE DATA CENTER DISCOVERY TOUR 2008"Oct 09 15:29
_Doug"Reduce TCO by 50-70% by migrating SAP workloads from UNIX to SAP-optimised SUSE Linux Enterprise"Oct 09 15:29
_Doug?Oct 09 15:29
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schestowitzMicrosoft is still pulling strings vs Google: 09 15:29
_Doug"Simplify your data center with the flexibility to seamlessly move virtual machines between Microsoft Windows and SUSE Linux Enterprise"Oct 09 15:29
schestowitzFunny thing is, you can show Microsoft hiring AstroTurfers here and even breaking laws, but call Microsoft a "criminal" and some AstroTurfers will shoe up mocking you.Oct 09 15:30
schestowitzThey prepare the site _Doug Oct 09 15:30
schestowitzFirst they need to get around to changing all the pages.Oct 09 15:30
schestowitzIn case Microsoft buys Novell for slash funds (market cap: $1.6B), then >   Quicker transitionOct 09 15:31
_DougProgram Compatibility AssistOct 09 15:34
_DougThis program has known compatibility issuesOct 09 15:34
_DougCheck online to see if solutions are available from the Microsoft website ..Oct 09 15:34
_DougProgram: Adobe Acrobat 5Oct 09 15:34
_DougGood GRIEF~1 .. can't even view an old PDF .. without a nag screen :)Oct 09 15:34
_DougDefinition of Evangelism at MicrosoftOct 09 15:36
_Doug"Evangelism is the art and science of gettig developers to ship products that support Microsoft's platform."Oct 09 15:36
_DougWe are here to help MICROSOFTOct 09 15:37
_DougEnemies: other platform vendors ..Oct 09 15:37
_DougI should have stuck at selling refrigeration solutions .. :)Oct 09 15:39
schestowitzDo they slog one another?Oct 09 15:40
schestowitzDo they hire proxy lawyer to attack ... errr... fridges?Oct 09 15:40
_DougNo, but we don't keep awake trying to think up ways of BOGUing each other :)Oct 09 15:41
_Doug"STRATEGY: Or, How to Kick Ass Witthout Breaking a Sweat"Oct 09 15:42
schestowitzIs that in this document? 09 15:44
schestowitzWhich page?Oct 09 15:44
_Doug'STRATEGY: "To win one hundred battles is not perfection; to subdue the enemy without fighting is perfection." Sun-Tzu: The Art of War, written in China by Sun Wu in roughly 490 B.B.'Oct 09 15:44
schestowitzThat I remember...Oct 09 15:44
_DougAnyone watch 'HEROS' on television recently ?Oct 09 15:44
schestowitz">Diversionary tactics, holding action, and retreats may each seem contrary to the achievement of the overall objective when considered solely in their own terms, but taken in light of the overall conflict, may contribute to overall success. In the Chinese Civil War that followed World War II, Mao Tse Tung's Army ran away from every battle, until they won the war. They knew that overall victory, not local victory, was the objective"Oct 09 15:44
_DougLike, the paranoia the obsessiveness, the malevelance  .. it's all there ...Oct 09 15:45
_DougYea: Mao was playing a giantic game of GO ..Oct 09 15:46
schestowitzMicrosoft: inspired by war.Oct 09 15:46
_Douggigantic game of GO, the one where you absorbe terrority ..Oct 09 15:46
schestowitzCan we name people in govt. who are Microsoft puppet?Oct 09 15:47
schestowitzOr those paid by Microsoft? This corruption must end. It's killing the economy at the moment , but it really ought to kill the criminals who caused this, not the taxpayers.Oct 09 15:47
_DougNot GO, a different game, you take turns placing pieces and surround terrority and deny it to the enemy ..Oct 09 15:48
schestowitzThe suffering is still being passed to those who were abused so criminal /companies/ need to at least be embargoed in more placs.Oct 09 15:48
schestowitzRisk?Oct 09 15:48
_DougMS is only doing what they did in the rail/oil/electricity/television/transport industry since for ever ...Oct 09 15:49
schestowitzIt has a patent, y'know: 09 15:49
schestowitz"Hasbro owns the copyrights for the game of Risk, as the guy who wrote the google maps based Risk found out. This was featured on slashdot earlier. However, he does not seem too discouraged and asks people to submit ideas for other games using google maps that will not have such legal wrangles."Oct 09 15:49
_DougRemember when the car industry bought up the electric trolly cars, and then closed them down ...Oct 09 15:49
schestowitz_Doug: it's no excuse. So it's time to respond. Microsoft is now crumbling because of its own stupidity (e.g. Vista) and because of a lot of free labour (FOSS), which is tries to fight by corruption politicians now.Oct 09 15:51
schestowitzGive me 5 minutes and I'll post about what they do in India now.Oct 09 15:51
_DougIf memory serves Risk sounds like a variation of a much older Chinese game ..Oct 09 15:51
_DougI recall in relation to Mao, it was suggested as an insight into his sucessfull strategyOct 09 15:52
_DougDenying the enemy terrority and room to manouverOct 09 15:53
ld50__Doug, i used to watch "heroes"Oct 09 15:55
_DougRisk: it's a variation of Go, in'it :)Oct 09 15:55
_DougHeros: a cross between the Matrix, the X-MEN, the Terminator and the FLY .. yea ?Oct 09 15:56
ld50_only the first season was cool :POct 09 15:56
_Doughow many episodes ? .. too many .. the Americans never know when to end it ...Oct 09 15:58
_DougWhat's your Lethal Dose :)Oct 09 15:59
_Dougmines a pint ..Oct 09 15:59
ld50_of what, tv series?Oct 09 15:59
ld50_lolOct 09 16:00
_DougLD50 == Lethal Dose 50%#Oct 09 16:00
_Dougnot a lot of people know that :OOct 09 16:00
ld50_yes, but its applied to something, like ld50 of caffeinOct 09 16:00
_Doug50% of the dose that will kill you .. is used to determine the safe dosage of drugs ..Oct 09 16:01
_Doug 09 16:02
ld50_not exactly, i think its the dose that will kill 50% of a populationOct 09 16:02
_DougHeros: what's with the two Chinese dudes and time travel ?Oct 09 16:02
_Dougld50: negative, they up the dose to an expermental population until half are dead .. that's the LD50 test ...Oct 09 16:03
_Douga population yes, only they don't ask the rabbits first :(Oct 09 16:04
_DougHeros: I only saw two episodes, I feel as if I saw them all ..Oct 09 16:04
ld50_yes, thats what i said, 50% is "50% of the population", not "50% of the dose" :POct 09 16:05
ld50_ah, dont waste your time with heroesOct 09 16:05
ld50_watch "Twin Peaks" or something :DOct 09 16:05
_Dougcryptic comments by some government agent, in a bunker, then a slo-mo kunk-fu fight with super-power-type zapping, then |||| cut to somewhereelse and repeat .....Oct 09 16:06
_Dougno scent lasting more then two minutes, the attention span of the average tv viewer ..Oct 09 16:07
_Dougtry and make it look like a cross between a music video and a RPP game ..Oct 09 16:07
_DougReal Person something .. you know like HL or CounterStrike ..Oct 09 16:08
_DougWhizzzz .. Wooshhhhhh .. Wammmmmmmm ... and cut |Oct 09 16:08
_DougI watched her 'twin peaks', it was believable until the log-lady, and the talking-backwards sinister midget turned up ...Oct 09 16:09
_DougThe thing is, no-one under the age of 18 is watching television ...Oct 09 16:10
ld50_ 09 16:10
ld50_great womanOct 09 16:11
_Dougheros: what's with the two Chinese dudes and the time travel ????Oct 09 16:11
ld50_one of the guy time travelsOct 09 16:11
ld50_thats itOct 09 16:11
_Doughow and why, and why don't he stop the destruction or what ever ?Oct 09 16:12
ld50_his friend doesnt have any powersOct 09 16:12
_DougThey even have a 'Jessica Alba' lookalike ..Oct 09 16:14
_Doug 09 16:15
_Doug"multi-episode story arcs that build upon a larger, more encompassing arc."Oct 09 16:15
_Dougshouldn't that be logs :)Oct 09 16:16
_DougShe pouts, but not as well as Jessica .. :)Oct 09 16:17
_Doug 09 16:17
_DougWhat is it about chicks in catsuits that do kungfu ?Oct 09 16:17
_Doug;)Oct 09 16:17
_DougDaphne ??? what's a superhero doing with a name like Daphne ????Oct 09 16:18
ld50_are you watching it on tv or downloaded the eps?Oct 09 16:20
_DougI saw it on tv ..Oct 09 16:20
_Doug"Daphne has the ability to move at superhuman speed,"Oct 09 16:20
_Dougquestion: what happens to the objects Daphne carries, why isn't there an athmospheric disturbance when she moves ?Oct 09 16:21
ld50_i wonder if she uses an helmet to protect her hairdoOct 09 16:22
_Douglike, she's displacing a lot of air, you'd think ther would be a thunder clap ?Oct 09 16:22
_Doughelmet: haaaaaOct 09 16:22
_DougHiro has Hiro, ?Oct 09 16:23
ld50_han?Oct 09 16:23
_DougI thought the original X-Men movie was crap, the ideas worked in a Comic, but for some reason they were a little underwelming onscreen ?Oct 09 16:23
_DougHiro does 'time-stops'Oct 09 16:24
_DougWhat's "THE FORMULA" ?Oct 09 16:26
_DougIs there the touch of the MANGAs about this series as well ?Oct 09 16:27
_Douglater ...Oct 09 16:32
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_Doug?Oct 09 16:46
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_Douggtg: keep an eye on Schestowitz .. while I'm away ....Oct 09 16:47
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trmancotwo new kernel versions were released todayOct 09 17:22
trmanco 09 17:22
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schestowitzCool, thanks, trmanco.Oct 09 19:23
schestowitzOh, maintenance releases.Oct 09 19:24
trmancoyesOct 09 19:24
trmancolittle thing worth mentioning :POct 09 19:24
trmancothings*Oct 09 19:24
schestowitzDow Jones at 88xx points. :-SOct 09 19:28
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cjschestowitz: thoughts about gnome?Oct 09 20:04
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schestowitzcj: I like GNOME.Oct 09 20:18
cjschestowitz: do you know who wrote GNOME?Oct 09 20:19
schestowitzYes. I like KDE better and I hope Miguel changes his mind about things he said.Oct 09 20:19
cjhmm?  what did he say that you wish he changes his mind on?  url?Oct 09 20:23
schestowitzIck. 09 20:25
schestowitzcj: let me find it.Oct 09 20:25
cjthanksOct 09 20:25
schestowitzGnome to be based on .NET – de Icaza : 09 20:25
schestowitzThat's a recipe for disaster.Oct 09 20:25
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MinceRgnome should stop copying osx if it is to be made into a usable DE again.Oct 09 20:39
MinceR(going back to copying kde would be a way to do that)Oct 09 20:39
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schestowitzKDE changes a lot. Either way, GNOME is very important to us all. It's popular on mobile devices and many desktops. We need to protect it from becoming something Microsoft can claim ownership of, especially now that MSFT is going down, despite massive buybacks and impending debt (seen the stack markets today?).Oct 09 20:44
MinceRi'm afraid they already have.Oct 09 20:46
MinceRm$ controls novell, novell owns gnomeOct 09 20:46
MinceRthe worst part being that these bastards control gtk now.Oct 09 20:46
schestowitz'Control' or control?Oct 09 20:58
MinceRwell, afaik gtk is part of the gnome project nowOct 09 20:59
schestowitzNovell has more power over Mono than over GNOME. This includes copyrights. That's one of the reasons Novell wants to poison GNOME with more Mono. It sponsors Mono j*nk like Banshee.Oct 09 20:59
MinceRwasn't gnome a ximian thing before ximian was bought by novell?Oct 09 20:59
schestowitzI'd have to check to give a definite answer. The copyrights might not be Ximian's.Oct 09 21:00
MinceRi thought the reason to poison gnome with mono was that m$ told them to since it would turn gnome into a patent trap.Oct 09 21:00
MinceRicOct 09 21:00
schestowitzNovell is Novell is Novell and Microsoft is Novell is Microsoft.Oct 09 21:00
schestowitzThey have no choice. Novell w as dying. This means that whatever Novell does now can be assumed to be Microsoft's desire too.Oct 09 21:01
schestowitzCompanies like Canonical need to sponsor Mono-free programs to compete with evolving (using $$) stuff like Banshee before users shout for MonoOct 09 21:01
MinceRisn't dying better than becoming a zombie/mindless slave?Oct 09 21:02
schestowitzIf you can't make them "addicted" to Windows, make them "Addicted" to .NET (both users and devs). That's the thinking anyway.Oct 09 21:02
schestowitzI was sent a warning earlier about the Silverlight Clouds of MS.Oct 09 21:02
schestowitz<anon> "Learn about the Mesh Application architecture and lifecycle as well as how to build Silverlight 2 and JavaScript Mesh Applications from ground up."Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> Silverlight everywhereOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<schestowitz> ms is obsolete anywayOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> is it the same AlexH:Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> well, not really, they will just try to "capture" the cloud movement and make it dependent on M$ technologiesOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<schestowitz> YesOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> Silverlight is just about thatOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> if you really want to annoy Miguel, get a patent licence also for MoonlightOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> and all the codecs that goes with itOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<schestowitz> Wil doOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<schestowitz> did EC drop the MOOX probe?Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> there is no probeOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> if they really want to probe, they have to travel to Lebanon and Ivory Coast :-)Oct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> let's prepare some fireworks for the day the standard is outOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> I don't have time and energy to launch some complains in front of courtsOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> and IBM seems to be interested only in chasing Microsoft at the CommissionOct 09 21:03
schestowitz<anon> which is not very exitingOct 09 21:03
MinceRbtw, i wasn't aware that novell was dying before they were zombifiedOct 09 21:04
MinceRwhy did it happen?Oct 09 21:04
MinceRi can see why netware would be dyingOct 09 21:05
MinceRi guess suse wasn't good enough :>Oct 09 21:05
schestowitzLet me gett the backing before Novell enthusiasts attack meOct 09 21:06
schestowitzIn no particular order:Oct 09 21:07
schestowitz 09 21:07
schestowitz 09 21:07
schestowitzI spotted this last year when a reader sent me some information about their approach towards the bank: 09 21:08
trmanco 09 21:09
schestowitzOpera is still losing its chance and being naive <,1000000567,1... >. It's a free( gratis) Web browser and they would gain against Firefox if they open-source it. Right now it's a no-go even for some repositories.Oct 09 21:10
schestowitztrmanco: that shot is from last month.Oct 09 21:11
trmancomehOct 09 21:11
trmancosomething must be wrong with my feed readerOct 09 21:11
trmanco 09 21:11
trmancothis is freshOct 09 21:11
schestowitzThat's a poor article for a good site like Pingdom.Oct 09 21:11
trmancowhy can't Portugal be like VenezuelaOct 09 21:11
trmanco"Although the notebooks are similar in both countries, the OS will be different as the Portuguese use a modified version of Microsoft Windows, while the government of Venezuela has opted for a version of Linux. "Oct 09 21:12
schestowitzDon't they deliver to them?Oct 09 21:12
schestowitzThe company under fraud investigation?Oct 09 21:12
trmancoyesOct 09 21:12
schestowitzNew: 09 21:12
trmancobut venezuela adopted Linux for those netbooksOct 09 21:12
schestowitzAt least it says "Linux", not "SUSE"Oct 09 21:12
schestowitztrmanco: let's wait and see. OLPC used to just run Linux too. Microsoft also bribed some official in Nigeria to change a signed deal with Mandriva.Oct 09 21:13
trmancololOct 09 21:13
trmancoyesOct 09 21:13
trmancolets wait and seeOct 09 21:13
schestowitz 09 21:13
trmancoyesOct 09 21:13
trmancoread that a year agoOct 09 21:13
schestowitzAlmost 600 comments.Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz"The dirty bast*rds. they were probably paid to install windows, thats how these things usually go"Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz"Bast*rds! Always do the same with their fucking money…no use for ethics, ah ?"Oct 09 21:14
schestowitz"I am a Nigerian Linux advocate who is as disappointed as the next person that our school children will not have Linux on the Classmate PCS. However, I am disgusted with all the mudslinging and slanderous innuendo. If Francois or anybody has any proof of any wrongdoing then they should please notify the EFCC ( who will be happy to look into the matter."Oct 09 21:15
schestowitz"Golpe baixo Steve!" Anyway... enough for now. :-)Oct 09 21:15
trmanco 09 21:15
schestowitzSo they use Debian. ;-)Oct 09 21:16
trmancoyes it was a really disappointing thing, even I felt angry against M$ and a little sorry for the nigerian kidsOct 09 21:16
schestowitzDoes this Debian version come with Mono? :-O Mono? NoNo.Oct 09 21:17
schestowitzHere's a problem: GNU/Linux becomes more popular, so all the binary salespeople come over and entice people with non-Free s/w: 09 21:18
trmanco 09 21:18
trmancoyesOct 09 21:19
schestowitzBlue-GNU is back to posting ( :- ) ): 09 21:19
trmancobut for people who really wan't to be free they can keep on using free softwareOct 09 21:20
trmancothose non-free apps can probably attract more users, "normal users" if you know what a meanOct 09 21:20
MinceRi wonder who will m$ sell out to when it's their turn to dieOct 09 21:21
MinceRcrApple? :>Oct 09 21:21
schestowitzIt's disheartening that they think of "Linux", Linus (1991) and some binary O/S (ISO) that has Wine.Oct 09 21:21
trmancohere are some stats from PortugalOct 09 21:25
trmanco 09 21:25
trmancoEnglish version: 09 21:26
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cjwhat?  OLPC comes with a kernel other than Linux?Oct 09 21:34
cjthat's pretty disgustingOct 09 21:35
schestowitzIt's nothing to do with Linux It's education, freedom and independence from vendors.Oct 09 21:38
cjschestowitz: well... wasn't there a vendor selling the hardware and the software that came on it?Oct 09 21:45
cjwhich vendors are you suggesting freedom from?Oct 09 21:45
cjI still think it's pretty aweful that a last-minute change happened to the kernel installed on the system.  the folks who wrote that kernel were deeply involved in the manufacture of the product from the beginning.Oct 09 21:47
cjjumping on the bandwagon at the last moment without contributing to the development of the product seems like a crappy thing to do.Oct 09 21:47
cjbut that's capitalism, though, right?Oct 09 21:48
schestowitzThe BIOS is open and easily replaceable. The software is open (GPL) and swappable.Oct 09 21:48
cjif it's coreboot, that's GPL, too, IIRCOct 09 21:49
schestowitzHardware too is a flexible thing. Suppliers can be changed and it's made in China.Oct 09 21:49
cjif what the coreboot devs tell me is correct, there is no open embedded motherboard.Oct 09 21:49
cjthe OLPC setup may be an exception to thisOct 09 21:50
cjit sounds to me like they didn't use commodity hardware, instead they had to design their ownOct 09 21:50
cjbut I'm just telling you what I remember; don't consider it factOct 09 21:50
schestowitzRMS chose OLPC for such reasons. Anyway, any country can customise the software to its own needs and own it.Oct 09 21:50
schestowitz"The US government's debts have ballooned so badly the National Debt Clock in New York has run out of digits to record the spiralling figure." 09 21:55
cjthanks, Mr. Bush.  Good idea there with the deregulation thing.Oct 09 21:56
schestowitzAlex Brown's site is down now. He moved to ASP .NET, so..Oct 09 21:56
cjschestowitz: thank you for your response to Jeff.  it may not mean a lot to you coming from me, but I think he's good people.  I've been working with him for quite a while now, and he's always proved himself knowledgable and ready to help fix and improve the software he maintains.Oct 09 21:57
schestowitzHeh. Steve Furber in the BBC < >. I know him... humble man.Oct 09 21:58
schestowitzSame with Miguel. But he takes advice from people who want to ruin Linux or 'share' its success, i.e. embed Microsoft+tax with the Free Desktop. It'll never change. He was put in a bad neighbourhood.Oct 09 21:59
cjI don't always agree with Miguel, but I think he's doing what he's doing for a good reason.Oct 09 22:00
schestowitzHe means well, but he's deceived. Until that changes, he can't be trusted and many people already distrust him -- and rightly so.Oct 09 22:02
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellOct 09 22:05
cjI don't think he's deceived.  He's corrected my behavior when I did not realize that I was going to take MS property and integrate it into Mono.  He knows where the line is drawn and he won't have it crossed.Oct 09 22:05
schestowitz"BT will outsource 500 staff from its Design and Operate units to Alcatel-Lucent in a seven-year global deal." 09 22:07
schestowitz"It's hilarious to see the push on "Linux" named sites to push Mono lately. But if you are like me and want to avoid Mono, the list will help you. If you use Mandriva, avoidance includes noticing the automatic updates offered and unchecking the ones that relate to Mono, if you have update set to offer everything there is, not just updates to what you have installed.]" 09 22:11
schestowitzMicrosoft funds abuse-tolerant govt. (Republicans): 09 22:21
schestowitz"While Democrats kept mum about the Microsoft case, Republicans were quick to blame Microsoft's woes on their political rivals. When he visited Microsoft's home state during the Republican primaries, George W. Bush pointedly declared that he supported 'innovation, not litigation.?'Oct 09 22:22
*mib_c4fo3s (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellOct 09 22:29
*mib_c4fo3s has quit (Client Quit)Oct 09 22:30
MinceRgnOct 09 22:33
schestowitzGood comment: 09 22:33
*twitter (i=willhill@ has joined #boycottnovellOct 09 22:42
*johnny___ ( has joined #boycottnovellOct 09 22:49
johnny___hollaOct 09 22:49
*johnny___ is now known as johnny-Oct 09 22:50
*johnny- is now known as johnny157Oct 09 22:50
schestowitzHey there.Oct 09 22:50
johnny157someone must lynch deicazaOct 09 22:50
schestowitzNo.Oct 09 22:50
johnny157i cant take it anymoreOct 09 22:50
johnny157no seriouslyOct 09 22:50
schestowitzExplain the problem to people.Oct 09 22:50
schestowitzz> "It's hilarious to see the push on "Linux" named sites to push Mono lately. But if you are like me and want to avoid Mono, the list will help you. If you use Mandriva, avoidance includes noticing the automatic updates offered and unchecking the ones that relate to Mono, if you have update set to offer everything there is, not just updates to what you have installed.]" 09 22:50
johnny157dude i dont need to void monoOct 09 22:51
johnny157deicaza has been on my shitlist for more than 10 yearsOct 09 22:51
johnny157from the moment he destroyed gnustepOct 09 22:51
schestowitzLinux sites should learn to stop treating Mono like it's part of the desktop. It's as much Linux as Wine is... only LESS necessaryOct 09 22:51
johnny157tried to hijack windowmakerOct 09 22:51
johnny157and the rest of the crap he pulled way before he came up with monoOct 09 22:51
schestowitzHe came in as a Windows man.Oct 09 22:52
johnny157he failed interview at microsoftOct 09 22:52
schestowitzYou can see it in a 2003/4 interview with him.Oct 09 22:52
johnny157and he decided to fuck up linux insteadOct 09 22:52
schestowitzGCC was a cheap compiler to him, but he also caught the idealogy.Oct 09 22:52
schestowitzNo, he decided to use Linux to grow closer to Microsoft.Oct 09 22:53
schestowitzIMHO.Oct 09 22:53
schestowitzFrom day one he spoke of the plan to make it COM-compatible and all...Oct 09 22:53
schestowitzGNU Windows.Oct 09 22:53
johnny157he saw dollars and free labor in the form of stupid kidsOct 09 22:53
schestowitzGwindowsOct 09 22:53
johnny157i cant believe he has any credibility leftOct 09 22:54
johnny157after all these yearsOct 09 22:54
johnny157after bonoboOct 09 22:54
johnny157and the crap he spits out at his conventionsOct 09 22:54
johnny157he is like a rabid dogOct 09 22:54
schestowitzOh, that.Oct 09 22:54
schestowitzWell, OOXML being an exampleOct 09 22:54
schestowitzI can't forget how he defends Mirosoft from the EUOct 09 22:54
schestowitzLike ACT, the Bush Admin and other Microsoft shills.Oct 09 22:54
johnny157well he got paid pretty goodOct 09 22:55
schestowitzHe must have at least been brainwashed a bit, speaking of his professional tendencies.Oct 09 22:55
johnny157i seem to remember microsoft throwing him out of their conferencesOct 09 22:55
schestowitzVP... probably good 6 digits +big bonuses.Oct 09 22:55
johnny157they wouldnt acknowledge him in the beginningOct 09 22:55
johnny157but once the deal came down with novellOct 09 22:55
johnny157they're buddiesOct 09 22:55
schestowitzHe hands out at Microsoft.Oct 09 22:56
schestowitzThis duality you also find in Justin Steinman.Oct 09 22:56
schestowitzHe has just been promoted.Oct 09 22:56
schestowitzThe problem is that many Linux people  ditched Novell.Oct 09 22:56
schestowitzThe Windows people are promoted or hired, which changes Novell.Oct 09 22:56
johnny157i dont give a fuck about novellOct 09 22:57
johnny157i jusÃt cant stand it watching these muppets undermine linuxOct 09 22:57
johnny157little by littleOct 09 22:57
schestowitzThey are in the Linux FoundationOct 09 22:58
johnny157you should see whats going on in the forumsOct 09 22:58
schestowitzTo get Novell 'off' Linux is too much work.Oct 09 22:58
johnny157everytime someone posts something negative about novell./monoOct 09 22:58
johnny157the shill army arrivesOct 09 22:58
johnny157and they downvote/mod everything to hellOct 09 22:58
johnny157twofaced ratsOct 09 22:58
schestowitzOne option is to try to change Novell's bahaviour, but as the stock (NOVL) falls, they remain licking the Microsoft Boot for cash.Oct 09 22:58
schestowitzI have no hopes for them.Oct 09 22:58
schestowitz...or for them to change, which is why, as some people said in Linux Today, we need to just see Novell going away like Linspite.Oct 09 22:59
johnny157well they ll sink sooner or laterOct 09 22:59
schestowitzjohnny157:  yes, the shill army.Oct 09 22:59
johnny157mono aint going anywhereOct 09 22:59
schestowitzSee Glyn Moody's latestOct 09 22:59
johnny157java has so much momentumOct 09 22:59
schestowitzOr Alan Lord's recent post on Mono.Oct 09 22:59
schestowitzThe Mono shills (some Novell employees too) are everywhere.Oct 09 22:59
schestowitzIs Novell Patrolling Open Source Blogs?  --- 09 23:00
schestowitzI should add: Novell has 'gagged' journalists and bloggers before its latest big Microsoft announcement. it polices coverage that way. I bet it's also responsible for that flood of Mono 2.0 coverage. Novell is the Microsoft of Novell.Oct 09 23:02
johnny157they must be desperate for developrs and new bloodOct 09 23:02
johnny157yehOct 09 23:02
johnny157they pimp mono news everywhereOct 09 23:02
johnny157flood redditOct 09 23:02
schestowitzI at least caught how they manipulated coverage.Oct 09 23:02
johnny157with crappy shitOct 09 23:02
schestowitzIt's more sickening to me than what they do.Oct 09 23:02
schestowitzRevisionist likewise.Oct 09 23:03
schestowitz*smOct 09 23:03
johnny157what i dont understand is why ppl fall for their propagandaOct 09 23:03
johnny157their arguments for mono are laughableOct 09 23:03
johnny1570 weight to all of themOct 09 23:04
johnny157mono has 0 added value compared to everything else out thereOct 09 23:04
schestowitz 09 23:04
schestowitzI've seen myself 'punished' in Digg for criticising Novell or Mono. That's how it goes. Social networking is gamed by corpsOct 09 23:04
schestowitzThe dangr is that on the route to promoting Mono they bash GPL and friendly stuff like Java.Oct 09 23:05
schestowitzSun really wants to see more Java on GNU/Linux... same with OOo, which Novell/Microsoft 'hijacked' with Go-ooOct 09 23:06
johnny157you should read this thread hereOct 09 23:06
johnny157 09 23:06
johnny157but i agreeOct 09 23:06
johnny157its obvious they adopt microsoft techniquesOct 09 23:06
johnny157to silence and intimidateOct 09 23:06
schestowitzIt's rebutted here: (Then the Monovell army arrived)Oct 09 23:07
schestowitzAnother 'open-source' scam from Microsoft: ("The SDK only works on Windows (what did you expect?").Oct 09 23:13
*twitter has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 09 23:18
*DCC CHAT connect attempt to _Doug failed (err=No route to host).Oct 09 23:42
schestowitzMicron to cut workforce by 15 percent, slash flash output : 09 23:43

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