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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 19th, 2008

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ZiggyFish1hey, schestowitzOct 19 08:07
schestowitzHey, what's  up?Oct 19 08:08
ZiggyFish1I can't get to the website for some reasonOct 19 08:09
schestowitzOh, let me check.Oct 19 08:10
schestowitzWorks fine here.Oct 19 08:10
ZiggyFish1now it's working, sorryOct 19 08:11
schestowitzW3C reaches it too: http://validator.w3.org/check?u...Oct 19 08:11
schestowitzIt's not very stable... not recently anyway.Oct 19 08:11
ZiggyFish1yeah, are you hosting it your selfOct 19 08:11
ZiggyFish1?Oct 19 08:11
schestowitzNo, Shane has a host.Oct 19 08:12
ZiggyFish1and from the validator, it's not valid htmlOct 19 08:12
schestowitzYes, cause of the Flash.Oct 19 08:14
schestowitzI could never get the Flash embedments to please CHTML.Oct 19 08:14
schestowitz*XHTMLOct 19 08:14
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ZiggyFish2sorry, wrong buttonOct 19 08:18
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schestowitzhttp://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/18/52226 "One of the onsequences of a severe belt tightening economy is just that, tighter budgets, and especially for pure research, studies that aren't directly a marketing endeavor." There goes the R&D BS.Oct 19 09:25
schestowitzhttp://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security "Airport security in America is a sham—“security theater” designed to make travelers feel better and catch stupid terrorists. Smart ones can get through security with fake boarding passes and all manner of prohibited items—as our correspondent did with ease."Oct 19 09:30
MinceRgeekingsOct 19 09:40
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schestowitzSatire: Analysts: credit crunch caused by the poor < http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/17/analys... >Oct 19 09:52
schestowitzRight on the money with this one (I noticed the same thing): http://www.groklaw.net/article...Oct 19 09:54
tessierI am hearing more and more about Schneier's "security theater". That's a good thing. People are finally starting to catch on.Oct 19 10:01
tessierAnd with a new president on the way hopefully we can put the 9/11 era behind  us.Oct 19 10:01
schestowitzHeh. You wish.Oct 19 10:01
schestowitzI love "security threatre". Maybe they can add "Voting threatre" to it.Oct 19 10:01
schestowitzOxymoron of the day: "democracy at work"... http://www.courierpostonline.com/articl...Oct 19 10:02
schestowitzThat copyright thing PJ points out is pretty freaky. They turn free text to sold text. I've noticed the same thing and was similarly disturbed. I think they also modify headlines to make it hard to find the free copies.Oct 19 10:06
trmancohttps://fossbazaar.org/?q=content/amazing-fig...Oct 19 10:43
trmanco"In particular, they found that 75% of responding firms use open source software in some way. This figure is up from approximately 13% in the year 2000, which is a major increase in just a few years."Oct 19 10:44
schestowitzThere are also some Microsoft moles in the Finnish govt.Oct 19 10:45
schestowitzWe've accumulated some of their names.Oct 19 10:45
schestowitzLinus On GEM Patches: UNTESTED CRAP < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n... >. He should be careful. Intel pays his wage, in part.Oct 19 10:48
schestowitzThey needed a 'study' to prove this: Depression in moms bad news for their children < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21233/1075/ >Oct 19 10:50
schestowitzBray still crying doom and gloom for startups and spending: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/10... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/10/16... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/1...Oct 19 10:56
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schestowitzThere will probably be an article about BN in linux.com next week. Knowing that the site's parent is sponsored by Microsoft, I don't expect it to be flattering, to say the least.Oct 19 15:11
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_DougCorn growers oppose Google/Yahoo deal ..Oct 19 15:12
_Doughttp://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/...Oct 19 15:12
schestowitzNo, Microsoft is just hiring shills again: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/...Oct 19 15:13
schestowitzTo me, that's just another reason to embargo Microsoft, at least in the EU. When the government is controlled by a company that plays these tricks, then politics should just be seen as corrupt and monopolies seen as government-ranted/protected.Oct 19 15:14
schestowitz*grantedOct 19 15:14
_DougGPL 3: "A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works .. is called an \aggregate"Oct 19 15:16
_Doughttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl3-final-rationale.pdfOct 19 15:16
_DougSo, if you don't control the source code, then you don't control your business ..Oct 19 15:17
schestowitzI'm writing about this at this very mo'Oct 19 15:18
_Doug"If conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License."Oct 19 15:18
_Doug"For example, if you agree to terms that obligate you to collect a royalty for further conveying from those to whom you convey the Program, the only way you could satisfy both those terms and this License would be to refrain entirely from conveying the Program."Oct 19 15:19
_Dougapart from covering you from getting sued, what further protections do 'commercial' non-GPL licenses convey to you ?Oct 19 15:20
_Dougin terms of security, reliability and fitness of use ?Oct 19 15:22
_Dougot: Passport Required To Buy Mobile Phones In the UK ..Oct 19 15:24
_Doughttp://mobile.slashdot.org/mob...Oct 19 15:24
schestowitzPassport?Oct 19 15:25
_Douglucky we don't live in one of those restrictive police states like the Russian Federation or China :)Oct 19 15:25
schestowitzThat's just the beginning. Wait until you need the 'ID card' to buy milk.Oct 19 15:25
_DougMicrosoft Patents the Censoring of Speech ..Oct 19 15:25
_Doughttp://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/10/19/1329243.shtmlOct 19 15:25
schestowitzAnd you shall swipe that (or rely on RFID) to permit tracking.Oct 19 15:25
schestowitzCh-ching. Useless trashable patent #10,001Oct 19 15:26
_DougOpen Source FUD from slashdot ..Oct 19 15:27
_Doug"At the major corporation I work for, there is currently a single person who decides what software to approve and disapprove within the organization .. Anything from Gimp, to Firefox, even to Vim don't make the cut due to the simple fact that they are open source."Oct 19 15:28
_Doughttp://news.slashdot.org/news/08/10/18/1810239.shtmlOct 19 15:28
schestowitzI was gonna write about /. in a koment.Oct 19 15:28
schestowitzIt's trashed by Microsoft.Oct 19 15:28
_Doug?Oct 19 15:29
schestowitzEven Perens acknowledges that.  Just unsubscribe from the site and let it die out.Oct 19 15:29
schestowitzMicrosoft is a sponsor of Slashdot's parent company, so expect no vengeance.Oct 19 15:29
_DougI see an advert for Bernard Mathews Turkey farms in the currrent articleOct 19 15:29
schestowitzNo, it's something else that I talk about.Oct 19 15:30
_Doug'find out what we do' .. errrOct 19 15:30
_Dougbread turkeys, I would imagionOct 19 15:30
_DougI guess these attacks on 'Red Hat' and open source are part admitance that Vista is a turkey .. yea ?Oct 19 15:32
schestowitzHeh.Oct 19 15:33
_Douggtg: back laterOct 19 15:33
schestowitzWell, I'm happy GL covered it.Oct 19 15:33
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_DougI suppose the more turkey adverts on slashdot, the less adverts for Open Source ?Oct 19 15:58
schestowitzSlashdot? Open source?Oct 19 16:00
schestowitzThat's just like 10% of what they cover nowOct 19 16:00
schestowitzAnyway, the site is declining.Oct 19 16:00
schestowitzHere's the past I told you about (just published): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/19/microf...Oct 19 16:03
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_Doug'"I can’t imagine something that could be worse than this for Microsoft and the patent troll business'Oct 19 16:05
schestowitzI'll be back in 2 hours. Gone rowing (contest, 4000m).Oct 19 16:07
_Dougsee ya tomorrow ...Oct 19 16:08
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AlbertoPhelloOct 19 18:14
AlbertoPwant some tea? http://slabme.wordpress.com/2008/10/19... :-)Oct 19 18:14
schestowitzOpenSUSE peachmango edition?Oct 19 19:08
AlbertoPschestowitz, it's a real nestlé commercial... a user took a pic in Sydney ^^Oct 19 19:14
AlbertoPwe were laughing quite a bit :POct 19 19:14
schestowitzYes, I know it's not Linux-related. The resemblance is uncanny, though.Oct 19 19:16
schestowitzSUSE should seek the 'right' to 'own' chameleons.Oct 19 19:17
AlbertoPnahOct 19 19:17
AlbertoPsuse mascotte has a funny originOct 19 19:17
AlbertoPit was a real chameleon in the NUE zooOct 19 19:17
AlbertoPone of the founders, if I remember it correctly, liked it, and so...Oct 19 19:18
schestowitzSimply change (colours)... or O/SesOct 19 19:18
AlbertoPhehe that's was the idea :)Oct 19 19:19
schestowitzmaybe afterthought.Oct 19 19:20
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schestowitzMicrosoft Patent Trolls Infesting India.. http://spoonfeedin.blogspot.com/2008/10/ind...Oct 19 19:52
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kentmaevening allOct 19 20:19
schestowitzhey, kentma. Anything new?Oct 19 20:25
kentmanothing truly exciting...  made som epasta, cut some blackberry canes down, made a banana cake... watched a dreadful film but the kids enjoye dit :-)  how about you?Oct 19 20:26
kentmaIt's good to see Terry Porter back again - apparently doing very well, too - good man!Oct 19 20:28
kentmaschestowitz: you heard from Homer at all?Oct 19 20:31
schestowitzBeen away for a few days. Still active elsewhere, though.Oct 19 20:32
kentmaschestowitz: You or Homer?Oct 19 20:33
schestowitzHomer.Oct 19 20:34
kentmaokay.Oct 19 20:34
schestowitzkentma: were you contacted by linux,com?Oct 19 20:34
kentmaschestowitz: nothing in my inbox here... should I be expecting?Oct 19 20:36
schestowitzI thought so.Oct 19 20:38
kentmaoh okay - would you know why, at all?Oct 19 20:38
schestowitzI gave your contact because they wanted more response from the 'BN people'.Oct 19 20:38
schestowitzHomer responded.Oct 19 20:39
kentmaokay, I'll look out for it - when did you communicate with them?Oct 19 20:39
schestowitzHeck, I must as well quote it because it's public.Oct 19 20:39
schestowitzI can paste it here if you want.Oct 19 20:39
kentmahmm,  could you /msg me, please?Oct 19 20:40
schestowitzkentma: no, they communicated with me and others. My guess is that they try to trip us up, but there ya go.Oct 19 20:40
kentmaaha - I see.  I thought linux.com were teh good guys?Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzHomer gave them too much ammunition but saying the truth:Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzI'm more than happy to make comments about BN and the situation withOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft in general.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzIn summary; the problem is Microsoft (naturally). There are otherOct 19 20:41
schestowitzparties who got caught up in their corruption, some more innocent thanOct 19 20:41
schestowitzothers.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzMuch of the backlash against BN comes from those who either a) believeOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft is innocent (naive), or b) don't care about Microsoft'sOct 19 20:41
schestowitzbehaviour one way or another (malice), or c) don't necessarily supportOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft, but they wrongly believe any attack against this partnershipOct 19 20:41
schestowitz(or similar) is an attack against a Linux distro and its contributorsOct 19 20:41
schestowitz(miss-attribution). It isn't, it's a counter-attack against MicrosoftOct 19 20:41
schestowitzand all who support them, whoever they may be. If that happens toOct 19 20:41
schestowitzcoincide with certain people who are supposedly Free Software advocates,Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzthen that is more to do with those misguided individuals than us.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzIOW I suppose BN tends to polarise the issue, as do I - frankly. I makeOct 19 20:41
schestowitzno apologies for that, since AFAIAC one is either part of the problem orOct 19 20:41
schestowitzpart of the solution. Microsoft is a vicious corporation with zero moralOct 19 20:41
schestowitzstandards, convicted of anti-trust crimes on multiple occasions on atOct 19 20:41
schestowitzleast two continents, and with a predilection for bribery; threats;Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzsmear campaigns; fake grass-root campaigns; planting "Munchkins" inOct 19 20:41
schestowitzforums and elsewhere; hiring Shill journalists and "analysts"; attackingOct 19 20:41
schestowitzcharities (OLPC); and operating a global racketeering operation usingOct 19 20:41
schestowitzclandestine contracts (known as MoUs) to exclude all competition. TheyOct 19 20:41
schestowitzare thugs and gangsters, and I have zero sympathy for those who supportOct 19 20:41
schestowitzthem.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzNote that there is considerable documented evidence for all the above,Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzmuch of which is provided courtesy of the US DOJ. I only mention thisOct 19 20:41
schestowitzbecause I'm so used to having to deal with denialists who are so blindedOct 19 20:41
schestowitzby their devotion to MS that they refuse to acknowledge Microsoft'sOct 19 20:41
schestowitzcrimes (or simply don't care because they are just as malevolent). ThisOct 19 20:41
schestowitzis not a reflection on (what I assume is) your position in any wayOct 19 20:41
schestowitzwhatsoever.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzAlso note that at least some of the backlash against BN comes fromOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft itself, via Shills and "Gold Partners" - e.g. Jesper LundOct 19 20:41
schestowitzStocholm. Indeed, de Icaza and Stockholm invaded the Linux advocacyOct 19 20:41
schestowitznewsgroup [*] immediately prior to the BRM for DIS 29500, obviously inOct 19 20:41
schestowitzorder to astroturf for Microsoft (they never appeared in that groupOct 19 20:41
schestowitzbefore or since), and both of them have spent considerable timeOct 19 20:41
schestowitzastroturfing on BN too. Other anonymous pro-Microsoft/NovellOct 19 20:41
schestowitz"contributors" are equally suspect, but then Shane and Roy would knowOct 19 20:41
schestowitzmore about that, given their access to the site logs (IP numbers).Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzMy particular angle is what I term "Poisonware", i.e. softwareOct 19 20:41
schestowitzencumbered by Microsoft patents, that is injected into the Free SoftwareOct 19 20:41
schestowitzcommunity in order to kill it. Two prime examples are Mono and MoonlightOct 19 20:41
schestowitz- both of which were founded by Novell's VP, de Icaza. Let me be clearOct 19 20:41
schestowitzthat the problem here is not /patents/ per se, but the /patentor/ -Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft. Software which is otherwise Free (GPL) but (depending on theOct 19 20:41
schestowitzjurisdiction) encumbered by patents held by /other/ companies, is notOct 19 20:41
schestowitzthe same level of threat as software encumbered by Microsoft patents,Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzsince few of those other companies are self-declared enemies of FreeOct 19 20:41
schestowitzSoftware ("Linux is a cancer") with vicious anti-FOSS agendas (indeed -Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzvicious anit-*competition* agendas, in general). For example, AdobeOct 19 20:41
schestowitzprovides patent-encumbered software for GNU/Linux, but they clearlyOct 19 20:41
schestowitzdon't hold an anti-Linux position (Ballmer: "every Linux customer has anOct 19 20:41
schestowitzundisclosed balance-sheet liability").Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzIt's only natural that thugs like Microsoft should make such attacks,Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzbut one does not then expect people /within/ the Free Software communityOct 19 20:41
schestowitzto help them achieve their vile goals. Novell is one such party who hasOct 19 20:41
schestowitzbetrayed their own community, and some within that community are eitherOct 19 20:41
schestowitzturning a blind-eye to that activity or pro-actively supporting it. MyOct 19 20:41
schestowitzdissent (and I presume BN's too) is first and foremost againstOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft; then with those who support them (companies and management -Oct 19 20:41
schestowitze.g. Novell); and lastly with those is the community who support thoseOct 19 20:41
schestowitzalliances - in word or in deed. This may be the active support of usingOct 19 20:41
schestowitzor developing Microsoft technologies, then spreading that PoisonwareOct 19 20:41
schestowitzwithin the Free Software community, or it may be the passive support ofOct 19 20:41
schestowitzrefusing to recognise the problem, instead choosing to "shoot theOct 19 20:41
schestowitzmessenger".Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzIMHO BN provides an invaluable service by exposing the truth aboutOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft and it's allies. Some of that exposure may be speculative, butOct 19 20:41
schestowitzmost is based on documented fact that can be independently verifiedOct 19 20:41
schestowitz(indeed BN maintains extensive links to its sources). The fact thatOct 19 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft and its supporters don't like the truth being exposed andOct 19 20:41
schestowitzcontinually expounded is not at all surprising. It's as simple as that.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzYou have my permission to reprint any of this message, with attribution.Oct 19 20:41
schestowitz[*] http://boycottnovell.com/2008/...Oct 19 20:41
schestowitzEND OF QUOTE from Homer.Oct 19 20:42
schestowitzRegarding Linux.com, it's not as simply as you think. Their parent company is still rather friendly towards Microsoft.Oct 19 20:42
kentmawow - superflood!  Anyway, I got most of it.  It's a good analysis, and Homer is always very eloquent.Oct 19 20:44
kentmaoddly, linux.com doesn't seem to render very well in FF3 here.Oct 19 20:45
schestowitzkentma: the thing is this..Oct 19 20:46
schestowitzI bet they'll try to cherry-pick bits that daemonise the site.Oct 19 20:46
schestowitzI believe the purpose of the article, due to request for balance, is to paint it in a negative light. Given the author, it's more than likely.Oct 19 20:47
kentmaschestowitz: of course they will, but the only way to avoid that possibility is never to say anything at all.  We see selective snipping in usenet all the time - cherry picking a web-site is no different.  It's reprehensible, of course, but that's people for you.Oct 19 20:47
schestowitzIt goes both ways.Oct 19 20:48
kentmaBesides, in a way, having linux.com taking a position is quite good, since it will encourage more readership of the whole issue - there's no such thing as bad publicity... :-)Oct 19 20:48
schestowitzHey, look what I've just found by coincidence: http://groups.google.com/group/lucky...Oct 19 20:50
kentmainteresting - the author/bot leaves the .sigs on, whereas I remove them.  Do you think I should leave them on?Oct 19 20:51
schestowitzIt's almost as though they borrowed your 'thing'.Oct 19 20:51
schestowitzDid you reuse any code?Oct 19 20:51
kentmame?  no, mine's all original me, although I'm following an RFC - the format is pretty standard, I think.Oct 19 20:52
kentmayou can have the sed & bash script if you'd like.Oct 19 20:52
schestowitzI found it by serendipity, checking to ensure if I had posted something already.Oct 19 20:52
kentmaschestowitz: it's amazing just how many places the digest is now popping up.  I really had no idea that it would become this "syndicated".Oct 19 20:54
schestowitzI found it occasionally when searching for things. It hopefully helps people find articles of use as well as context.Oct 19 20:55
kentmathe combination of summaries, urls and related articles is a very powerful one.  It's almost like a semantic search engine in itself :-)Oct 19 20:56
schestowitzThe thing started (and remained) innocent 'ammunition' against Microsoft munchkins. It's interesting how, in due time, this became a good basis for writing articles,swapping /evidence/ of stuff and helping authors find articles related to theirs.Oct 19 20:57
kentmaschestowitz: quite... from acorns and all that.  Personally, I find them a useful source of information now, particularly as some articles can tend to disappear over time.Oct 19 21:00
schestowitzEconomics news: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&200... . A few hours ago I had a conversation with someone from Dubai. Appearantly they are getting filthy rich there at the moment, whereas the US is falling deeper into debt. The shit of power in coming years (see chart) will be interesting.Oct 19 21:00
schestowitzkentma: try Google News search (with archives). You can find some material from the 80s.Oct 19 21:01
kentma80s?  wow!Oct 19 21:01
schestowitzYesterday PJ wrote about a serious issued related to this though: http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph...Oct 19 21:02
kentmaI've seen the rigidity charts for the US before... they do rather bely the commonly held belief that people in the US can more easily become rich than elsewhere.Oct 19 21:02
kentmaIt's funny how languages move on - I love this:Oct 19 21:03
kentmamais ce clash-làOct 19 21:03
kentmaheheOct 19 21:03
schestowitzThe blog is multi-lingual (3 langs)Oct 19 21:04
kentmaand also relève toujours du wishful thinkingOct 19 21:04
kentmait's great - I like it.  I should read it more often.Oct 19 21:04
schestowitzI use it as a source of news about the economy. He has no mercy and he accumulates academic information not the "It's all under control" propaganda from Faux.Oct 19 21:05
kentmaI hadn't realised that Castro had remarked on the dollar valuation, btw.Oct 19 21:05
kentmaI like the one about the tatoo, btw - hehe.Oct 19 21:06
kentma3) Vous prendrez plaisir à toucher votre argent.Oct 19 21:07
kentmaI know it's a bit laddish, but it's funny ...Oct 19 21:08
schestowitzI've just found out more evidence of corruption.Oct 19 21:08
schestowitzhttp://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=44... "Some judges of the CAFC are even patent attorneys. It is sure that those "specialized" judges have a serious biais in favour of patents. Some critics says that they even lowered the barriers of novelty, making easier to get patents."Oct 19 21:09
schestowitzThis is similar to what the RIAA did -- appointing and reappointing judges to put string puppets in place.Oct 19 21:09
schestowitz"Microsoft's stock price regularly takes a hit on the days it issues security patches, according to research released last week" From < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152460/micros... >Oct 19 21:15
kentmaNow that's an interesting thing.  One wonders if the markets are waiting for MS to collapse in a pile.Oct 19 21:16
schestowitzThey have buybacks.Oct 19 21:17
schestowitzThey have about $20B (or less) in savings and they are preparing for debt.Oct 19 21:17
kentmauntil they run out of cash.  then they'll have to sell debt.Oct 19 21:17
schestowitzThey could just go private.Oct 19 21:17
kentmawhy would they?  what would their credit rating be?  I dont' think that they have a future.Oct 19 21:18
schestowitzNovell and Sun are said to be in a positon to look into it.Oct 19 21:18
kentmainto what?Oct 19 21:18
schestowitzkentma: they try to embrace FOSS now.Oct 19 21:18
schestowitzEEE (extinguish)Oct 19 21:18
kentmams?Oct 19 21:18
schestowitzThey deny distributing FOSS, but they pretty much give Drupal and stuff now.Oct 19 21:18
kentmaah, yes, of course, I see what you mean.Oct 19 21:18
schestowitzIt would kill their margins.Oct 19 21:19
kentmait's been duffing up their margins for a long time, I suspect.Oct 19 21:19
schestowitzWhich are already poor anyway. They sell XP for almost nothing, some say they give it for a loss (I lack evidence though)Oct 19 21:19
schestowitzOffice also... almost forgot the #1 cash cow.Oct 19 21:20
schestowitzThey give cash cow for free to some young people and developing countries because the less privileged just go online, typo in "zoho", "google apps" or "openoffice downlod".Oct 19 21:20
kentmaI can't see how they could do XP at a loss.  They finished it years ago - there is no production cost, and as they don't make any effort to fix problems beyond the most extreme security issues, there's essentially no maintenance costs, either.  It's the perfect product from that point of view.Oct 19 21:21
schestowitzWell, there's 3$ Office+Windows, but that's limited. very.Oct 19 21:21
schestowitz*$3Oct 19 21:21
schestowitzI imagine they'll continue to disappoint in their report on Thursday (???Oct 19 21:22
kentmaUS$3.00 for zero product cost is still an infinite margin, though.Oct 19 21:22
schestowitz20.. 21.. yes, Thursday that is.Oct 19 21:22
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Oct 19 21:22
schestowitz23 Oct is their Q3 report, I think. They disappointed in April and July (the stock sank).Oct 19 21:22
kentmatough times at the moment, anyway, though.Oct 19 21:25
schestowitzBad for Microsoft, okay for Free software.Oct 19 21:25
AlbertoPschestowitz, they always gave MSO for almost nothing to young people, students, teachers, schools...Oct 19 21:26
AlbertoPnot really a new moveOct 19 21:26
schestowitzJust found this: Live and let license < http://www.itworld.com/LWD010523vcontrol4 > " Oct 19 21:37
schestowitzIf you're ever confused by, or mixed up the terms, "open source" andOct 19 21:37
schestowitz"free sofware," this is for you. It's a primer on the topic of whatOct 19 21:37
schestowitzthey are, how they are alike, and how they are different. So ifOct 19 21:37
schestowitzyou've heard of the GPL, but are not exactly sure what it is or whatOct 19 21:37
schestowitzit does, this is for you. Armed with what you learn here, you willOct 19 21:37
schestowitzbe much less vulnerable to the veritable barrage of FUD that theOct 19 21:37
schestowitzRedmondian Empire is hurling at the whole open source/free softwareOct 19 21:37
schestowitzworld."Oct 19 21:37
schestowitzhttp://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-s... "The main initial motivation for the term “open source software” is that the ethical ideas of “free software” make some people uneasy. That's true: talking about freedom, about ethical issues, about responsibilities as well as convenience, is asking people to think about things they might prefer to ignore, such as whether their conduct is ethical. "Oct 19 21:38
kentmasurvival.  they're losing this particular battle (unsurprisingly - it's basic economics).Oct 19 21:38
schestowitzYes, sharing is better than not sharing. It makes better goods.Oct 19 21:39
AlbertoPwell, quite a controversial statement actuallyOct 19 21:39
schestowitzIt's the same in research. Even Hollywood has begun realising that it's losing audiences by shutting its Internet doors, so it's not pushing videos into YouTube for its own promotion.Oct 19 21:39
AlbertoPit really depends on what you're thinking toOct 19 21:40
schestowitzAlbertoP: which statement?Oct 19 21:40
schestowitzI am awarer that SUSE/Novell people hardly care about freedomOct 19 21:40
AlbertoPthis one:  "sharing is better than not sharing. It makes better goods."Oct 19 21:40
schestowitzA friend of mine got banned from SUSEforums for raising the subject of GPL there.Oct 19 21:41
AlbertoPlink?Oct 19 21:41
schestowitzIt's somewhere in BNOct 19 21:41
schestowitz2007Oct 19 21:41
kentma how can you get banned for asking about the GPL?Oct 19 21:41
AlbertoPI doubt it happened for that reason, but I'm curious ^^Oct 19 21:41
kentmaAlbertoP: why do you doubt this?Oct 19 21:41
AlbertoPkentma, it depends how you ask and where...if you're off-topicOct 19 21:41
AlbertoPschestowitz, 2007?Oct 19 21:42
kentmaAlbertoP: how can the GPL ever be off-topic in a Linux distributor's forum?  That's absurd.Oct 19 21:42
AlbertoPforums were not there as official opensuse media at those timesOct 19 21:42
schestowitzkentma: AlbertoP is one of the 'SUSE people'.Oct 19 21:42
AlbertoPkentma, for me it's off-topic in a support forum, and I would ban myself if someone keeps pointing the topic outOct 19 21:43
schestowitz(not that he's a 'bad person' or anything)Oct 19 21:43
kentmaschestowitz: oh, I see.Oct 19 21:43
kentmaschestowitz: no, just dishonest.Oct 19 21:43
AlbertoPkentma, no, schestowitz is quite wrongOct 19 21:43
AlbertoPI'm not an opensuse guyOct 19 21:43
AlbertoPI just use opensuse ^^Oct 19 21:43
kentmaAlbertoP: I don't believe you.Oct 19 21:43
schestowitzYou are a contributor.Oct 19 21:43
AlbertoPoh feel free toOct 19 21:43
AlbertoPschestowitz, yes I'm a contributor, not a member, not an employeeOct 19 21:44
schestowitzI still see you  in the OpenSUSE site. They also rewarded you for contributions (Novell)Oct 19 21:44
kentmaAlbertoP: I am free.  And I'm not dishonest.Oct 19 21:44
AlbertoPkentma, well, your opinion is quite cheap if based only on the fact "I'm opensuse user -> dishonest" ^^Oct 19 21:44
AlbertoPIt takes a lot of time to judge people to me, but well...Oct 19 21:44
AlbertoPthat statement says more about you than about me :-)Oct 19 21:45
schestowitzAlbertoP: Opensuse is different from "openSUSE in {boycottnovell form}"Oct 19 21:45
kentmaAlbertoP: you're already being dishonest - you're misquoting.Oct 19 21:45
AlbertoPschestowitz, they rewarded me as any other contributor, yes.Oct 19 21:45
schestowitzThat's like a monk versus a monk in a mosque.Oct 19 21:45
kentmaschestowitz:  you recall what we were saying earlier about selective snipping...Oct 19 21:45
AlbertoPschestowitz, different because I don't use the official capitolization?Oct 19 21:45
schestowitzSelective information disclosure.Oct 19 21:46
AlbertoPcapitalization*Oct 19 21:46
AlbertoPlolOct 19 21:46
kentmaschestowitz: exactly.  As well as mis-quoting, too.  All in just a few moments.Oct 19 21:46
AlbertoPwell, you practically know all about me from my blog, linked also on your site ^^Oct 19 21:46
AlbertoPif you don't trust that, it's your problem^^Oct 19 21:47
schestowitzYou have a blog?Oct 19 21:47
AlbertoPoh yesOct 19 21:47
schestowitzI didn't realise it was yours then.Oct 19 21:47
schestowitzUnless it's a Lizards blog.Oct 19 21:47
AlbertoPit's notOct 19 21:47
kentmaAlbertoP: why are you here?Oct 19 21:47
AlbertoPand on my blog there's the link to my linkedIn profileOct 19 21:47
AlbertoPkentma, why should I not be here?Oct 19 21:48
kentmaAlbertoP: why are you here?Oct 19 21:48
AlbertoPkentma, because I find it funny :)Oct 19 21:48
kentmaAlbertoP: but you're not funny at all.Oct 19 21:48
schestowitzOh, I see it in the comments now: http://albertopassalacqua.com/Oct 19 21:48
schestowitzhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/albertopOct 19 21:48
AlbertoPrightOct 19 21:48
schestowitzFunny, the usual excuse.Oct 19 21:49
kentmaAlbertoP: why are you really here?  Please don't be dishonest again.Oct 19 21:49
schestowitzJust like benJIman and SUSE/Novell people who read BNOct 19 21:49
schestowitz"we find it entertaining" ... "it's funny" ... "we're not reading, we're just laughing"Oct 19 21:50
schestowitzFirst you ignored, then you..Oct 19 21:50
kentmaschestowitz: the phrase "get a life" springs to mind.Oct 19 21:50
AlbertoPkentma, I have no second goal really. I'm just curious to see what's going on here.Oct 19 21:50
kentmaAlbertoP: then read the logs.Oct 19 21:50
AlbertoPkentma, I honestly have no time to do that...I spend here just some timeOct 19 21:51
AlbertoPmainly on weekends when I've nothing else to doOct 19 21:51
kentmaAlbertoP: this is the second time I've seen you here, both times for extended periods.Oct 19 21:51
kentmaAlbertoP: then get a life with something worthwhile to do in it.Oct 19 21:51
AlbertoPright, and both times when I have nothing to doOct 19 21:52
kentmaAlbertoP: then get a life!   There's a whole world out there...Oct 19 21:52
AlbertoPhehe don't worry, my life is already quite full as it is ^_^Oct 19 21:52
kentmaAlbertoP: clearly it's not.Oct 19 21:53
schestowitzAlbertoP: are you in #opensuse?Oct 19 21:53
AlbertoPyes, I'm thereOct 19 21:53
schestowitzToo quite there?Oct 19 21:53
schestowitz*quietOct 19 21:53
kentmahe's in lots of opensuse groups... plus something called "blendercoders".Oct 19 21:54
AlbertoPnot really, it's a support channel...mainly tech stuff going onOct 19 21:54
schestowitzI'm never tempted to intrude Windows forums, even if there's disagreement.Oct 19 21:54
kentmaand suseOct 19 21:54
AlbertoPkentma, opensuse and suse are the same channelOct 19 21:54
kentmaschestowitz: no, but you have ethics.Oct 19 21:54
AlbertoPblendercoders is blender dev channel ^^Oct 19 21:54
kentmaAlbertoP: #boycottnovell #opensuse-edu #opensuse-gnome #blendercoders #opensuse-translation #opensuse-chat #opensuse-it #suseOct 19 21:54
schestowitzHow can you check this?Oct 19 21:54
AlbertoPright...and not really a secretOct 19 21:55
AlbertoPschestowitz, just check my nicks info'sOct 19 21:55
kentmaschestowitz: it's a standard info command in irc.Oct 19 21:55
AlbertoPnick*Oct 19 21:55
kentma' /whois nickOct 19 21:55
schestowitzAh, I seee...Oct 19 21:56
kentmaschestowitz: on pidgin you can right-click on the nick in the list and info is offered as a menu item.  It's the same command.Oct 19 21:57
schestowitzbenJIman is only here.Oct 19 21:57
*GasFurnace (n=Administ@c-98-216-40-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 19 21:57
AlbertoPsame in xchatOct 19 21:57
schestowitzNot bad for a SUSE guy.Oct 19 21:57
AlbertoPno, benji is in opensuse-chat alsoOct 19 21:57
GasFurnacesuse sucksOct 19 21:57
AlbertoPand in #suseOct 19 21:58
schestowitztessier is all over the place.Oct 19 21:59
*GasFurnace (n=Administ@c-98-216-40-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovellOct 19 21:59
kentmai used to sit in debian, but ran out of time...Oct 19 21:59
AlbertoPthat's why my contributions to suse tend to zero...no time :\Oct 19 22:00
schestowitzIf you like SUSE, why are you visiting this channel?Oct 19 22:02
schestowitzYou can read the log the following day for 'amusement 'rather than become /part/ of it.Oct 19 22:02
kentmaschestowitz:  because he lacks a sense of humour?Oct 19 22:02
schestowitzIt's like watching mud wrestlers on TV without entering the mud.Oct 19 22:02
AlbertoPThe answer is in your question. I like SUSE and so I don't really understand all the fud generated around it. So I try to understand.Oct 19 22:03
kentmaAlbertoP: so your remarks about finding it funny were merely untrue?Oct 19 22:04
AlbertoPkentma, no, I actually find it extremely funny. Especially when one cent of truth is mixed with so much fud...Oct 19 22:05
kentmaso your remark about "not understanding" was a lie, then, as you believe that you do?Oct 19 22:05
AlbertoPI still don't know why you do all this, where you find the time and the resources though ^_^Oct 19 22:05
schestowitzIt's not about 'humour' then.Oct 19 22:05
schestowitzIt's about heckling.Oct 19 22:05
schestowitzLike AlexH and Dan O'Brian.Oct 19 22:05
kentmaschestowitz: he can't even keep two responses consistent - the chap is deeply disingenuous.Oct 19 22:05
AlbertoPschestowitz, you don't need a contraddictory to be honest. You do it perfectly by yourself :)Oct 19 22:06
kentmaschestowitz: and must be amazingly bored.Oct 19 22:06
AlbertoPkentma, hehe the concept of consistency is not proper of the channel/site frankly. And what you do can be funny and at the same time not understandable. Actually the two things are perfectly connected.Oct 19 22:07
kentmaschestowitz: what's most worrying is that he appears to be reasonably intelligent, and yet acts as if he's incapable of grasping basic logic.  Sort of applied "doublethink".Oct 19 22:07
tessierWhy do MS/Novell/Suse people keep coming in here to troll? It's weird. I keep an eye on a few Windows related mailing lists and I never see such trolling.Oct 19 22:08
kentmaAlbertoP: that's just a load of tosh.  Have you read 1984?  You would be a good party member.Oct 19 22:08
AlbertoPkentma, hahaOct 19 22:08
AlbertoPkentma, again...know something about people before judging them. It adds value to words.Oct 19 22:08
kentmaAlbertoP: still humour impaired, then.Oct 19 22:08
kentmaAlbertoP: why are you here?  Can you be honest?  Do you have that capacity?Oct 19 22:09
schestowitzI'm more interested in benJIman role here.Oct 19 22:09
AlbertoPkentma, I answered you already :-)Oct 19 22:09
schestowitzHe has been here since almost day 1.Oct 19 22:09
kentmaAlbertoP: indeed, with three inconsistent responses so far, and counting.Oct 19 22:09
schestowitzHe attends SUSE meeting in their headquarters and he attends almost no other IRC channel.Oct 19 22:09
schestowitzFor a fact, he calls for 'backup' when arguments here 'heat up' benJIman is like intelligence.Oct 19 22:10
AlbertoPkentma, if you don't believe I'm not here to "spy" you (spy what??), well, I don't know how to explain you.Oct 19 22:10
kentmaschestowitz: I've no idea.  I'm on the verge of /ignoring Alberto.Oct 19 22:10
AlbertoPschestowitz, benJIman is active part in a lot of opensuse channels.Oct 19 22:10
schestowitzI see just 2.Oct 19 22:11
kentmaAlbertoP: is this a new reason, or are you adding it to the other ones?Oct 19 22:11
schestowitzOne of which is this.Oct 19 22:11
AlbertoPI see #suse #opensuse-chat #opensuse-gnome #boycottnovellOct 19 22:11
AlbertoPbut he is not connected nowOct 19 22:11
kentmaschestowitz: I'm giving up with this guy - he's just here to disrupt.Oct 19 22:12
kentmaschestowitz: basically, just another kiddy.Oct 19 22:12
kentmaAlbertoP: you've got about a minute in which you can choose to be honest before I bang you into /ignore land.Oct 19 22:13
AlbertoPschestowitz, you see him all the time because he sort of maintains susehelp (bot)Oct 19 22:13
AlbertoPkentma, do you really think I have reasons to be dishonest?Oct 19 22:13
AlbertoPif so, let's discuss about themOct 19 22:13
kentmaAlbertoP: about 30 seconds left.Oct 19 22:13
schestowitzYou beautify your reasons for being here.Oct 19 22:13
schestowitz'funny' is code for curious or 'want to interfere' in  my books. :-)Oct 19 22:14
AlbertoPwell, as I said, I suggested to rename this channel #opensuse-comics ... it is funny :-)Oct 19 22:14
kentmaschestowitz: it's "kiddy troll" speak for "disrupt".Oct 19 22:14
kentmaAlbertoP: unfortunately, you are not and you are now in /ignore.Oct 19 22:15
AlbertoPschestowitz, but well, I'm always open to a constructive discussion. You should know that.Oct 19 22:15
kentmaschestowitz: /ignore nick is useful, btw.  sort of usenet killfile.Oct 19 22:15
kentmaschestowitz: I mean irc kfile.Oct 19 22:15
MinceRit makes following conversations more difficultOct 19 22:16
MinceRand moderating a channel even more difficultOct 19 22:16
kentmaMinceR: not half as much as having trolls does.Oct 19 22:16
MinceRan op has other ways of getting rid of trolls.Oct 19 22:17
MinceRways that can benefit the whole channel.Oct 19 22:17
AlbertoPa troll is not someone thinking different ^^Oct 19 22:17
schestowitzI never kick though.Oct 19 22:17
kentmaMinceR: it depends on how you view things.Oct 19 22:17
schestowitzTrolls are always welcome to leave though. The door is open.Oct 19 22:17
kentmaMinceR: one could argue that they can turn up and be ignored.Oct 19 22:17
MinceRthey can be harmful to the discussionOct 19 22:18
kentmaMinceR: many years on usenet has shown that trolls never change their spots.  They come to disrupt, and that's what they will do.  ban them and they'll just re-nym and be back.Oct 19 22:18
AlbertoPMinceR, real trolls are.Oct 19 22:18
MinceRthen ban them by ip address.Oct 19 22:18
kentmaMinceR: and if they have dynamic ip?Oct 19 22:18
AlbertoPthe problem is that you consider troll everyone with differen opinions from yours :-)Oct 19 22:19
MinceRthen ban their ip address range.Oct 19 22:19
kentmaMinceR: wrong answer, sorry.Oct 19 22:19
MinceRor just keep kickbanning them until they get boredOct 19 22:19
MinceRit's often less disruptive than letting them talkOct 19 22:19
kentmaMinceR: it's a choice thing.Oct 19 22:19
MinceRkentma: no, you're wrong, sorry.Oct 19 22:19
kentmaMinceR: banning ip ranges is not right, sorry.Oct 19 22:19
MinceRkentma: well, someone will have to make choicesOct 19 22:19
MinceRkentma: ban evasion is not right either.Oct 19 22:19
kentmaMinceR: yes, but banning ip ranges is still not right.Oct 19 22:20
kentmatwo wrongs do not a right  make...Oct 19 22:20
MinceR(ban evasion applies already if you apply a ban to username+ip range or username+domain)Oct 19 22:20
AlbertoPMinceR, banning ranges you just exclude people not involved...Oct 19 22:20
MinceRkentma: often banning a range is the best thing that can be done.Oct 19 22:20
kentmaMinceR: anyway, the point remains that trolls are not  helpful, about which I agree.Oct 19 22:20
kentmabanning ranges is not the right thing, though.Oct 19 22:20
MinceRwell, the right thing would involve physically visiting the trolls and kicking their ass.Oct 19 22:21
MinceRbut we usually don't have that option, do we?Oct 19 22:21
kentmaMinceR: yeah, fair piont :-)Oct 19 22:21
schestowitzThere won't be banningOct 19 22:21
schestowitzIt would be a weak spot. We also never delete comments, unless it's V14agra spam.Oct 19 22:22
kentmaschestowitz: we've pretty much covered the pros and cons now :-)Oct 19 22:22
MinceRstill, i think the best approach is starting with a username+ip range or username+domain ban and if they evade by changing the username, omit that from the mask.Oct 19 22:22
MinceR(usernames tend to be persistent)Oct 19 22:22
kentmaMinceR: if they are, then it's relatively simple...Oct 19 22:22
schestowitzNo, no banning, please. Think of this as a status change from forums to suppression of speech.Oct 19 22:32
schestowitzHomer tried this before by kicking people while I was away/asleep and it always backfires.Oct 19 22:33
kentmaschestowitz: I agree with you.  Personally, I prefer to /ignore.Oct 19 22:33
schestowitzHe has short(er) temper... and channel OpOct 19 22:33
schestowitzkentma: they only turn the site/channel into a cesspool once in a week or so... then it quiets down.Oct 19 22:34
kentmaschestowitz: perhaps that's how they define "funny"?Oct 19 22:34
schestowitzMore 'sophisticated' hecklers I'm not arguing with in BN comments:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/19/microf...Oct 19 22:34
MinceRwould you let even floodbots keep "talking"? :)Oct 19 22:36
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 19 22:36
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerOct 19 22:36
schestowitzwb, [H]omer Oct 19 22:36
schestowitzMinceR: nobody floods anything.Oct 19 22:37
kentmaschestowitz: AlexH was spinning faster than the QE2's prop...Oct 19 22:37
kentma[H]omer: hiOct 19 22:37
schestowitzThere was an incident in 2007 where someone from COLA spread (flooded) libel about me while I was away.Oct 19 22:37
schestowitzHe used BN comments...Oct 19 22:37
schestowitzkentma: Alex responds within minutes. He spends a lot of time heckling the site.Oct 19 22:38
twitterThey have been following me on Slashdot too.  They use whatever tools they think they have.Oct 19 22:38
kentmaschestowitz: I know what you mean - there's been some spread about me.Oct 19 22:38
twitterPeople who are always available are paid to do what they do.Oct 19 22:38
kentmaschestowitz: presumably you're Alex's "assignment"Oct 19 22:38
schestowitztwitter: they try to limit your use of or presence in the site.Oct 19 22:38
kentmatwitter: indeed :-)Oct 19 22:38
schestowitzThe Munchkins try to do the same to me in Digg.Oct 19 22:39
twitterIt's not working out very well for them.Oct 19 22:39
schestowitzThey mod down my comments about 4 times within hours of posting, sometimes adding (chaining) insults and then modding these up of doing a puppet show.Oct 19 22:39
twitterThe harder they try, the more obvious they are.Oct 19 22:39
kentmait's not sustainable long-term... they will lose.Oct 19 22:40
twitterThey have lost.Oct 19 22:40
kentmayeah, but in the end, they're realise :-)Oct 19 22:40
twitterAs soon as they "win" they have lost.Oct 19 22:40
schestowitztwitter: they draw more attention to you this way./Oct 19 22:40
schestowitzStill, you should stop nymming.Oct 19 22:40
schestowitzThey'll use it against you, and rightly so.Oct 19 22:41
schestowitzLet the scum be seen for what they are -- obsessive, targetted and probably some of Microsoft known and CONFIRMED shills.Oct 19 22:41
schestowitzI've accumulated piles of known incidents in BNOct 19 22:41
schestowitzSo it's nothing mythical, it's a reality and it continues to DATE.Oct 19 22:41
twitterWhen I hit my two comment limit at 9AM, I use other accounts.Oct 19 22:42
twitterThis is something we disagree about.  Let's not waste time with it again.Oct 19 22:42
schestowitzYou should publish a list of Slashdot shills. You don't need 'smoking guns'. We have lots of them already.Oct 19 22:42
schestowitzI'd love to maintain a list of shill accounts in /.Oct 19 22:42
schestowitzI know a few there who also shill in Digg.com and USENET.Oct 19 22:43
schestowitzBut in Slashdot they can post anonymously (not possible in Digg)Oct 19 22:43
twitterI try to keep the troll zoo up.  It is a lot of work.Oct 19 22:43
kentmamaybe whoever runs the cola shill list could add some slash ones, too?Oct 19 22:43
twitterThey are the same PR people.  Same tactics, talking points and language.Oct 19 22:44
kentmayupOct 19 22:45
twitterthe AlexH thread above is stuff I see all the time.Oct 19 22:45
MinceR004231 <@schestowitz> MinceR: nobody floods anything.Oct 19 22:45
MinceRwell, perhaps not here, not now :>Oct 19 22:45
schestowitzLawMedia... FullSIX, Wagner Endstrum... some of them must be reported to the FTCOct 19 22:45
schestowitzNot that anything would happen. People attest to Microsoft's actual control -via insiders -- of regulation bodies in the USOct 19 22:46
twitterDeep corruption, :'(Oct 19 22:46
schestowitztwitter: he takes posts off topic and drains a lot of time. Posted minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/mono-co...Oct 19 22:47
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/0...Oct 19 22:47
schestowitzHeh. It's in page one for her name: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient...'garaOct 19 22:48
schestowitz*LOL* just found this: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index...'GaraOct 19 22:49
twitterI don't like that site.Oct 19 22:49
schestowitzSame libel there. There were no DDOS attacks.Oct 19 22:50
schestowitzSame lies, different day, different page. Even Sys-con denied it.Oct 19 22:50
AlbertoP<twitter> People who are always available are paid to do what they do.  <--- Well, I might say the same of you. But I don't because I have no proofs, so why should you suspect of others without any proof?Oct 19 22:52
twitterFor one thing, I'm not always available.Oct 19 22:53
twitterFor another, Roy Knows who I am via email and web sites.Oct 19 22:53
AlbertoPhehe don't underestimate teens without anything to do twitter ;-)Oct 19 22:53
AlbertoPtwitter, I didn't mean you're paid...Oct 19 22:54
twitterThese people have been following me around for 8 years.Oct 19 22:54
AlbertoP8 years?Oct 19 22:54
twitterSomething like that.Oct 19 22:54
AlbertoPBN is not so old :-?Oct 19 22:54
twitterSlashdot is.Oct 19 22:54
AlbertoPI seeOct 19 22:55
schestowitzAnd they defend a monopolist busted for shilling.Oct 19 22:55
schestowitzWhy would anyone defend or befriend such a beast?Oct 19 22:56
twitterFor the tshirts?Oct 19 22:56
schestowitzCompensation or incentives can be made even if they are Microsoft partners receiving favours.Oct 19 22:56
twittera zune?Oct 19 22:56
AlbertoPWell, schestowitz someone thinks you're paid by MS either to spread fud around N too. ^_^Oct 19 22:56
twitterThese guys are working for a PR firm.Oct 19 22:57
AlbertoPand that someone is not meOct 19 22:57
schestowitzJust days ago we saw a Nigerian prince (also a Microsoft employee) attacking a blogger and blog that criticised Microsoft for shilling... paying for people to subvert Wikipedia.Oct 19 22:57
schestowitzIt's quite the army of cronies! Microsoft and its crime spill over and transcend borders. Shills defend other shills while smearing critics.Oct 19 22:57
twitterTheir instant response is quite amazing, even if it's low quality there is always something.Oct 19 22:58
twitterIt must cost them a considerable portion of their advertising budget.Oct 19 22:59
twitterEvery now and then, they send in someone who knows something technical.  Mostly they are full of shit.Oct 19 23:00
schestowitz>> <AlbertoP> Well, schestowitz someone thinks you're paid by MS >> Rightt.... and Osama is a paid member of the Bush administration, embarking on a campaign to assist making the US a police state. it's all just a big theatre act.Oct 19 23:00
twitterThey will say anything to discredit a critic.Oct 19 23:00
AlbertoPhehe I didn't see I agree with that theory ^^Oct 19 23:00
twitterWhy bring it up?Oct 19 23:02
AlbertoPjust as an example of strange things you can read around, nothing moreOct 19 23:03
twitterEventually, everyone who criticizes M$ is called a fag. M$ uses such attacks to discredit their own agents and the medium itself.Oct 19 23:04
AlbertoPhehe well, every opensuse user is considered dishonest here ^^Oct 19 23:05
twitterreally?Oct 19 23:05
AlbertoPwell, at least I'm considered "dishonest and without ethics" €¬€¬Oct 19 23:06
twitterRoy should write up a page with your more blatant comments and link to it when you bother him.Oct 19 23:06
AlbertoPhehe I was not bothering him :-)Oct 19 23:07
twitterDishonesty bothers everyone.Oct 19 23:07
AlbertoPhum right, still have to see why I'm not honest ^^Oct 19 23:07
MinceRgnOct 19 23:09
twitterthat's why Roy needs to make a page for you.  It will help everyone out and it would be quicker than endlessly arguing the same things with you.Oct 19 23:10
schestowitztwitter: been called that and even worst things. All libelous of course.Oct 19 23:10
twitterIf you look at it long enough, you discover that all Apple users are gay and or crazy for not just "going with the flow" and using a "PC"Oct 19 23:11
AlbertoPOoOct 19 23:12
twitterThat's M$ propaganda, not my opinion.Oct 19 23:12
twitterEverything not M$ is just "impractical" they have been saying for more than a decade.Oct 19 23:12
AlbertoPwell, hard to say that macs are impracticalOct 19 23:13
AlbertoPprobably the best usability is in macs ^^Oct 19 23:13
*schestowitz whistles at mythsOct 19 23:14
AlbertoPtime I run, byeOct 19 23:16
*AlbertoP has quit ("Sto andando via")Oct 19 23:17
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Oct 19 23:47

Comments

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