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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 30th, 2008 - Part 2

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_Dougpromise them the sun moon and stars .. until you get their money ...Oct 30 18:08
schestowitzEcosystem, not just businessOct 30 18:08
schestowitzIDC, Gartner, Novell and other allies are paid too.Oct 30 18:09
_Dougcorruption is only if you get caught :oOct 30 18:09
schestowitzAs someone who mails me says, "it's more like a religion or political movement"Oct 30 18:09
schestowitz_Doug: they got caught.Oct 30 18:09
schestowitzThey paid for allegation to go awayOct 30 18:09
_Dougmore like a cult .. n/lOct 30 18:09
schestowitzIronically, they call /others/ that.Oct 30 18:10
schestowitzThey call Linux/FOSS religion and Apple a "cult"Oct 30 18:10
schestowitzSometimes it's easier to put labels on a minority, but there ya go..Oct 30 18:10
_Dougexample: man leases Supermarket, hos no money or stock ..Oct 30 18:10
_Douguses Supermarket as colateral to buy foodstock on credit ..Oct 30 18:11
_Dougsells foodstock and pays off creditorsOct 30 18:11
_Dougis technically fraudalentOct 30 18:12
_Dougbut what the left-hand don't know, don't matter ..Oct 30 18:12
_Dougthat man is now a Lord ...Oct 30 18:12
_Dougexample #2: have only €£10 grand ..Oct 30 18:14
_DougGet a loan for a 100 at 10% interest ..Oct 30 18:14
_Dougpay off loan immediatly and get another loan for 1000 at 10% interest ..Oct 30 18:15
_Dougbump it up four times and use the sum to finance an apartment block ..Oct 30 18:15
_Dougsell apartment block at 4X the price and pocket the rest ..Oct 30 18:16
_Dougnot a bad days worth for 10 grand ..Oct 30 18:16
schestowitzhttp://radian.org/notebook/the-green... "[T]he Times’ Bits blog has a fascinating post putting Greenspan’s comments about risk management systems in context. In short, computers don’t help if you lie to them."Oct 30 18:17
twitterPeople who lie to their computers are generally using their computer to lie to others.Oct 30 18:22
schestowitzSent by a reader: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=961588 "The best solution is to avoid Mono and go back to Java Server Pages."Oct 30 18:24
schestowitz"From the stupidity has its own punishment department"Oct 30 18:24
schestowitztwitter: let's sue teh computers. "The Big Machines," as George W B calls 'em.Oct 30 18:25
PetoKrausLOL royOct 30 18:26
PetoKrausnice catchOct 30 18:26
PetoKrausschestowitz: testing your mandriva ;)Oct 30 18:28
schestowitzMine? Oct 30 18:28
PetoKrausyes, your beloved :POct 30 18:28
schestowitzYou should have seen what their community manager said about Ubuntu.Oct 30 18:28
PetoKrauslink?Oct 30 18:29
schestowitzhttp://www.happyassassin.net/2008/10/28/why-... (personal opinion, not Mandriva)Oct 30 18:29
schestowitzI use Ubuntu at work and at home, but not just that.Oct 30 18:29
schestowitzTip on Mono smacking: "Cool.  Be sure to constantly steer back to the original, working technologies -- the ones also without the legal landmines."Oct 30 18:30
neighborleewhat exactly is the lowdown on ubuntu and mono..because they are based in UK wherever they are,, does this make them legally unaffected by patents or does it depends where iso is downloaded from ?Oct 30 18:37
neighborleedownloaded from,,or where OS is used is more appropriate I guessOct 30 18:38
twitterHappy Assassin's analogy forgets to mention the M$ Mafia having screwed everyone for decades.Oct 30 18:38
twitterShuttleworth's personal "dive bomb" has gotten him places "fair" competition could not.  Good for Shuttleworth and free software.Oct 30 18:39
twitterOther distros will be happy when the M$ monopoly is broken.Oct 30 18:40
neighborleeit wont happen I dont think anytime soon until people that install linux see a stable  system where all hardware and software works as expected.Oct 30 18:40
neighborleeapps, games, you name it..its a huge uphille battle.Oct 30 18:40
twitterHP sees that already.Oct 30 18:41
twitterSo do Lenovo, Asus, Acer and others.Oct 30 18:41
neighborleewell if latest ubuntu release is any indication..I find that slightly hard to believe.Oct 30 18:41
neighborleeapport isn't even enabled by default in stable releases..thats just crazy.Oct 30 18:42
neighborleeimho anywayOct 30 18:42
twitterapport?Oct 30 18:42
neighborleeyesOct 30 18:42
neighborleecrasn handlerOct 30 18:42
neighborleecrashOct 30 18:42
schestowitzJust posted, about EU and UK patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1...Oct 30 18:43
twitterI don't know.  I'm on Lenny.  Lenny's got some bugs now, so Ubuntu will have bugs.  They get fixed.Oct 30 18:43
schestowitz_Doug: thanks for the input. I'm doing lots of SCO quotes today.Oct 30 18:43
neighborleetwitter: stuff happens yesOct 30 18:43
twitterAfter eight years of GNU/Linux use, I'm sure free software is ready for everyone.Oct 30 18:43
neighborleeintrepid was released with a wonky cd  drive mechanism..umount issues..to me thats just wrong,,QA has gone into the crapper imo.Oct 30 18:44
neighborleetwitter: for the most part prob. so yes ;)Oct 30 18:44
twitterThe only thing I've missed has been 3d acceleration.  That's on the way.Oct 30 18:44
neighborlee?Oct 30 18:44
neighborleeyou mean your not using proprietary drivers ?Oct 30 18:45
twitterRight.Oct 30 18:45
neighborleeah okOct 30 18:45
neighborleewell I cant live without them..I game ;)Oct 30 18:45
neighborleeand well I use blender3d ;)Oct 30 18:45
neighborleeso its not possible here.Oct 30 18:45
twitterCare to share some of your blender work?Oct 30 18:45
neighborleeinteresting article about mandriva vs canonical heheOct 30 18:45
PetoKrausneighborlee: what graphics card do you have?Oct 30 18:46
neighborleetwitter: nothing online atm, but sure I can do that latre if you wishOct 30 18:46
neighborleePetoKraus: nvidia 8800 GTX 768MBOct 30 18:46
twitterno hurry, there's plenty of entertainment in the world.Oct 30 18:46
PetoKrausneighborlee: i've had some successes on ATI open source drivers 'n' gamingOct 30 18:46
PetoKrausneighborlee: aha ;)Oct 30 18:46
neighborleeive heard too  many horror stories about ati and linux..sorry no yet ;)Oct 30 18:46
twitterNvidia is the only company that's not playing free software ball now and their non free drivers work.Oct 30 18:47
neighborleeplus this card was a really good deal...Idont mind using nvidia drivers either its a non issue to m e.Oct 30 18:47
PetoKraus:) it's much better than nVidia right nowOct 30 18:47
twitterIntel works OK.Oct 30 18:47
schestowitzneighborlee: in the future, avoid NVidia.Oct 30 18:47
neighborleewell as I say..it was economics that drove my purchase ;)Oct 30 18:47
schestowitzI have NVidia on this machine.Oct 30 18:47
schestowitzAt work I have ATIOct 30 18:47
PetoKrausi guess AMD Fusion is very nice ideaOct 30 18:48
PetoKrausgood for most usersOct 30 18:48
PetoKrausPuma is actually very good, though, poor adaptation so farOct 30 18:48
twitterSooner or later Nvidia will have to play too.Oct 30 18:48
PetoKrauslike, 3 models....Oct 30 18:48
schestowitzWe need to reward AMD/ATI to encourage better open source drivers. NVidia is defective and a lost cause. Let them perish or see the light.Oct 30 18:48
schestowitzAMD CPU + ATI is a good combination. No VIA, no Intel, no NVidia..Oct 30 18:48
neighborleetwitter: they claim they can't atm..patents on certain parts of their cards ?Oct 30 18:48
twitterthen let them perishOct 30 18:49
neighborleeschestowitz: yeah I agree on thatOct 30 18:49
schestowitztwitter: yes, when people say "no" to NVidia, then they'll change.Oct 30 18:49
PetoKrausschestowitz: they are doing Fusion platform, i dunno if you heardOct 30 18:49
twitterWhat ATI boards do you recommend for free drivers?Oct 30 18:49
schestowitzIf you feed a yelling prisoner, he'll keep yelling.Oct 30 18:49
PetoKrausit's basically GPU incorporated on CPUOct 30 18:49
_Doug1990-1995: Microsoft's Yellow Road to Cairo ..Oct 30 18:49
PetoKraustwitter: just have a look on phoronixOct 30 18:49
_Doughttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4....Oct 30 18:49
neighborleehowever another reason I avoided ati, was their use  of DX ,,nvidia has always been strong on ogl.Oct 30 18:49
neighborleethat and my friends all use nvidia.Oct 30 18:50
neighborleeso ..Oct 30 18:50
PetoKrauswell, not reallyOct 30 18:50
PetoKrausgeforce 8800, reportedly, has much worse performance on OGL than DirectXOct 30 18:50
neighborleeoh lovelyOct 30 18:50
PetoKrausthey had to pick between DX10 and OGL, afawkOct 30 18:50
schestowitzNVidia has manufacturing problems. Very serious ones.Oct 30 18:50
neighborleewell atm I do most gaming in winblowsOct 30 18:50
neighborleesad to say ;)Oct 30 18:50
schestowitzI alwayty fear that the GPU will start acting upOct 30 18:50
schestowitzEven Apple PCs with NVidia are affected.Oct 30 18:51
schestowitzAnd that's not FUD. NVidia told this to its shareholders. If got sued anyway, I think... for downplaying it.Oct 30 18:51
neighborleeis there url for thisOct 30 18:52
twitterI look at  phoronix and find 11 page articles.  Are there free software drivers for ATI yet that work?Oct 30 18:53
neighborleefaik, not even ati gives free drives for their 'new' cards.Oct 30 18:55
twitterIntel did and they hate free software.Oct 30 18:56
MinceRfunny how intel gpu-s have the best driver supportOct 30 18:56
neighborleeand the least performance ;)Oct 30 18:56
neighborleeoh well ;)Oct 30 18:56
_DougRob Enderle demonstrates multi-touch on Windows 7 ..Oct 30 18:58
_Doughttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn...Oct 30 18:58
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, hold on... http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Oct 30 18:58
schestowitz"Technology analyst Rob Enderle and the BBC's Rory Cellan-Jones have taken a look."Oct 30 18:59
schestowitzHaha. Rory is the usual MSBBC pal of Ballmer and Gates.Oct 30 18:59
schestowitzFunny how all the groupies join efforts to boost Vista 7.Oct 30 19:00
schestowitzFrom http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8332 :Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz'With the exception of Rob Enderle and myself – who were the only two “Professional” journalists and analysts present at the event as far as I could tell — the entire guest list was stacked with Open Source community folks, such as William Hurley, BMC Software’s Chief Open Source strategist and David Recordon, the the founder of OpenID.'Oct 30 19:00
schestowitz'Starting from the cocktail mixer at the Bellevue Hyatt on the Tuesday evening that I got there and introducing myself to each attendee, it became increasingly apparent that this was no typical analyst/press/blogger Microsoft meet and greet.'Oct 30 19:00
schestowitzCocktails... parties... Microsoft... Enderle.Oct 30 19:00
schestowitzBringing in bloggers and IBM employees for some drinks (not Kool-Aid per se)Oct 30 19:01
twitterhere's something useful - https://help.ubuntu.com/commun...Oct 30 19:01
twitter" we were locked in a presentation room from 8:30 to 5:30 each day"  Contain them!  Don't let them teach our staff anything.Oct 30 19:05
_Dougpowerpoint demos .. but not the actual 'stuff' ?Oct 30 19:05
twitterSounds like it's all vapor, "  was usually prefaced or ended by “Oh yeah, by the way, Miguel de Icaza pretty much has all this stuff ported to Linux already, and if it isn’t working now, we’re gonna make it work really soon.”"Oct 30 19:07
twitterreally soon now, we promiseOct 30 19:07
twitterjust eat this green appleOct 30 19:08
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twitterthey taste great with kool aid.Oct 30 19:09
twitterCue Cat.  http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=...Oct 30 19:17
twitterShuttleworth says he can fund Canonical for another 3 to 5 years.  That ought to be long enough for M$ to be gone.Oct 30 19:19
twitterhttp://linux.slashdot.org/a...Oct 30 19:19
schestowitzI think he sais something different.Oct 30 19:19
schestowitzHe said it would take 3-5 years to become profitable. That's different.Oct 30 19:19
twitterAh, let me look for myself.Oct 30 19:19
netcat_What does that mean...Canonical is not cash-flow positiveOct 30 19:21
twitterThat means it's losing money.Oct 30 19:21
twitter""I have no objection to funding the business for another three to five years," he said in a conference call Monday. "I certainly have the patience to see us through any downturn. I think this downturn is going to be very good for Canonical...Canonical is not cash-flow positive, but our offering is very effective for those who want to pinch their pennies."Oct 30 19:22
netcat_yeah...until they stop shipping free cd'sOct 30 19:22
twitterHe thinks he'll be making money in two years but is willing and able to fund it for five.  No one can predict further than five years.Oct 30 19:23
schestowitzBilski's is!!Oct 30 19:23
schestowitzGreat news. Against patentability!!!Oct 30 19:23
schestowitzSorry about the typos/Oct 30 19:23
twitterWhat, the Cue Cat?Oct 30 19:23
twitterI thought it was bad news they earned a patent on their backward barcode reader.Oct 30 19:24
schestowitztwitter: urgentOct 30 19:24
schestowitzCan you send me the HTML of http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/o...Oct 30 19:24
trmancoUbuntu 8.10 looks a lot prettier then its predecessorOct 30 19:25
schestowitzOther sites want me to publish thisOct 30 19:25
twitterokOct 30 19:25
schestowitz:-) Thanks a MILLIONOct 30 19:27
schestowitzI'll prepare a post for it.Oct 30 19:27
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twitterNo problem, 2.2 MB on the way.  simple and complex formatOct 30 19:31
neighborleeschestowitz:http://www.techpowerup.com/in... < oops ?Oct 30 19:32
schestowitztwitter: taOct 30 19:33
twitterpdf integration with konqueror is good enough that I don't mind that format but I'm happy to help people who just want to read text.Oct 30 19:33
twitteror look at imagesOct 30 19:33
schestowitzThe way it's done by default is excellent.Oct 30 19:35
twittercoolOct 30 19:35
twitterM$ down 1.2%, Down up 1.2%, ha ha.Oct 30 19:35
_Doug07-1130.html .. doneOct 30 19:35
_Dougtwitter .. 1.2% is funny ?Oct 30 19:38
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schestowitzFreudian slipOct 30 19:42
schestowitzDow=>Down :-)Oct 30 19:42
_Dougis Diamond v. Diehr relevent ?Oct 30 19:42
_Doughttp://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1...Oct 30 19:42
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schestowitz_Doug: "Argument: Tuesday, October 14, 1980"Oct 30 20:09
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/forms/bi... http://boycottnovell.com/forms/bil...Oct 30 20:10
twitter_Doug, here's funny, Dow up 2.11%, MSTF down 1.6% at close, a 3.7% parting of ways.Oct 30 20:20
twitterOh my, that is good news about patents.Oct 30 20:23
twitterGood bye and good riddance to business method patents.Oct 30 20:24
twitterand, hopefully, software patents as a whole.Oct 30 20:25
twitter" the invention is not implemented on a specific apparatusOct 30 20:25
twitterand merely manipulates [an] abstract idea and solves a purely mathematical problemOct 30 20:25
twitterwithout any limitation to a practical application, therefore, the invention is not directed toOct 30 20:25
twitterthe technological arts."Oct 30 20:25
twitterslam.Oct 30 20:25
schestowitzVista 7 didn't impress then, eh?Oct 30 20:26
twitterPatent threats no longer impress, that's for sure.Oct 30 20:32
twitterThe first reviews of Vista SP2 have not been favorable.Oct 30 20:33
twitterI'd start a new failure log but the stories belong in the Vista failure log.Oct 30 20:34
schestowitzThere's enough material already for Vista7FailureLogOct 30 20:35
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10076... ""A security issue has been identified that could allow an authenticated remote attacker to compromise your Microsoft Windows-based system and gain control over it," the security update says."Oct 30 20:36
schestowitz"The more than 6,000 attendees who will be walking away from the sold-out event with the Windows 7 operating system software in hand could have been vulnerable to an attacker exploiting the security hole."Oct 30 20:36
twitterIt's all Windows failure.  It's not like they can do a rewrite.Oct 30 20:36
schestowitzTake preactive action.Oct 30 20:36
schestowitzAccumulate VIsta 7 failures.Oct 30 20:36
twitterMight as well.Oct 30 20:36
schestowitzThen present a sort of thesis.. anti-marketing material.Oct 30 20:36
twitterLook at this, my trolls have accused me of a "sleazy whisper campaign"  http://slashdot.org/comments...Oct 30 20:37
twitterThe people who made neo nazi name trolls for me have some nerve.Oct 30 20:38
schestowitzLucky I had mod points. Who's that "Macthorpe" anyway?Oct 30 20:43
twitterJust another name troll.  I don't believe anything any of them tell me.Oct 30 20:44
PetoKrauswheeeOct 30 20:45
PetoKrausmodpointsOct 30 20:45
PetoKraus:DOct 30 20:45
twitterMacthorpe and Dedazo accounts have been used to harass me for years.Oct 30 20:45
schestowitzGremlins are noises in one's head.Oct 30 20:45
schestowitzI got some E-mail about "MS evangelism" hours ago.Oct 30 20:46
schestowitzSomeone wishes to spill some big beans.Oct 30 20:46
twitterthat would be more interesting if they had spilled already.  the suspense must be killing you.Oct 30 20:47
schestowitzThere are things we already know. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-...Oct 30 20:49
schestowitz(hint: would be nice if a whole book was published about it)Oct 30 20:49
twitterThey had better hurry up the book before M$ sinks and no one cares anymore.Oct 30 20:51
_Dougmaybe they are just checking as to what is out there already .. ?Oct 30 20:54
_Douglike .. for instance .. comes was never supposed to see the light of day ..Oct 30 20:55
_Dougthere are very early references as to just what DLLs would do to security ..Oct 30 20:55
schestowitzDoes the supposed author know about those Comes docs?Oct 30 20:57
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_DougI guess .. just Google on some name ...Oct 30 20:58
schestowitzIs the Bilski story in /. FP yet? It definitely belongs there.Oct 30 20:59
schestowitz http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/30/53003 "In this piece, a reporter is saying according to a conference call he listened to with one of the big bailout recipients, they are way more interested in using that capital to gobble up competition, use it for more acquisitions in other words, than in making new loans."Oct 30 21:01
_Dougremind me of Bilski .. I lose track of the fud sometimes ..Oct 30 21:01
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/30...Oct 30 21:02
twittersomething made it to /.  http://yro.slashdot.org/articl...Oct 30 21:04
_Doughttp://yro.slashdot.org/article...Oct 30 21:05
_Dougbeat me by 200 milliseconds .. :)Oct 30 21:05
_Dougis this in relation to where someone patented insurance on a computer ?Oct 30 21:06
_Dougno .. "commodities trading"Oct 30 21:06
schestowitzI've put links to the HTMLs there.Oct 30 21:06
_DougI can't wait to see how the amicus.curie are going to spin this ..Oct 30 21:07
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schestowitzStopSoftwarePatents says there will be a lobbyists riotOct 30 21:08
_DougMS evangelism::correction: someone wishes to know what beans are already spilled :)Oct 30 21:09
_Doughave the beans been copied somewhere before they disappear from the originating sites ?Oct 30 21:11
schestowitzYes.Oct 30 21:13
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-co...Oct 30 21:13
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schestowitzMP cries mercy for McKinnon < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/... >Oct 30 21:19
_Dougall of the beans .. what's that site with the whole directory tree PXxxxx ?Oct 30 21:19
schestowitzhttp://antitrust.slated.orgOct 30 21:19
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_Douggtg ..Oct 30 21:20
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schestowitzDesperate Nvidia accuses ATI of cheating < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/... >Oct 30 21:21
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/30...Oct 30 21:30
schestowitz"Can we kick  Miguel de Icaza out of our free software club? He is the worst thing to happen to open source software ever!"Oct 30 21:30
schestowitzThe Register's Gavin Clarke is wiping Microsoft's behind again.. with open-source BSOct 30 21:31
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schestowitz*LOL* Sarko...! "Semi-barmy kneehigh French premier Nicolas Sarkozy has failed in his attempt to whip from French shelves a voodoo doll bearing his handsome likeness." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10...Oct 30 21:34
schestowitzAnother patents-obsessed company biting the dust: http://www.pcworld.com/article/153039/.ht... < Alcatel-Lucent Posts Loss >Oct 30 21:40
schestowitzMotorola Loses $397M in Q3, Plans Switch to Android < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153056/.html?tk=rss_news >;  TSMC Sees Big Revenue Drop, Spending Cuts < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153041/tsmc_... >Oct 30 21:47
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schestowitzGood comment: http://www.linux.com/?module=comments&fun...Oct 30 21:54
schestowitzHey, jose Oct 30 21:54
schestowitzLet me post your piece.Oct 30 21:54
joseheyOct 30 21:54
josenooooooooOct 30 21:54
schestowitzGive me 2 minutes.Oct 30 21:54
schestowitzYesOct 30 21:54
schestowitzIt's already there anyway.Oct 30 21:54
schestowitzIt's already posted.Oct 30 21:54
josei'll wait to read it, but if we don't have a good position, i don't want to be messing with patentsOct 30 21:55
josedid you catch what i wrote after you left?Oct 30 21:55
schestowitzYes, I did.Oct 30 21:55
schestowitzIt's an ongoing powwowOct 30 21:55
joseif the foss people sue then ms will sue backOct 30 21:55
joseif no sue, then what would motivate writers?Oct 30 21:55
joseaside, that was nice about the business patent rulingOct 30 21:56
josethis link appears to be about promoting foss on windows and asking for what other foss people like: http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_m...Oct 30 21:57
schestowitzThere's no stuff on that.Oct 30 21:57
schestowitzGavin Clarke is shooting from the MS hip again.Oct 30 21:57
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/...Oct 30 21:57
schestowitzI'm pissed off seeing authors who play along with Microsoft's "we're open" fakery.Oct 30 21:58
schestowitzhttp://www.networkworld.com/slideshow... ??Oct 30 21:59
schestowitzCarla is link to old stuff (months old)Oct 30 21:59
schestowitzIt seems like readership in that site is descending. Oct 30 22:00
schestowitz*linking, not "link'Oct 30 22:00
twitterMotorola, " abandoning the Symbian UIQ operating system, and its proprietary mobile Linux OS, to focus on the Google-backed platform and Microsoft's Windows Mobile." from frying pan to fire.Oct 30 22:00
schestowitzWindows Mobile is dying.Oct 30 22:01
schestowitzSay Cringely, Om Malik, even Microsoft Watch (although not in these words)Oct 30 22:01
schestowitzHere's something I don't get. http://techdirt.com claims to have over 800,000k subsribers, but it's PR6 and BN beats it in terms of Netcraft rank and almost in terms of Alex ranks. I know about some readership fakers out there... trying to just attract advertisers.Oct 30 22:04
schestowitz*800,000, not 800,000kOct 30 22:05
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schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archive... "This is just ridiculous. Of course the bad guys will use all the communications tools available to the rest of us. They have to communicate, after all. They'll also use cars, water faucets, and all-you-can-eat buffet lunches. So what?"Oct 30 22:24
schestowitzhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/... "Opera's engineers have developed a version of Opera Mini that can run on an Apple iPhone, but Apple won't let the company release it because it competes with Apple's own Safari browser."Oct 30 22:25
MinceRi wonder why opera botheredOct 30 22:28
MinceRthey know crApple can't stand competitionOct 30 22:28
schestowitzhttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0.... "Matt Assay?    Can you give me a LOL?    This is the man who professes to be an advocate of open source yet is a self confessed Apple fan.   The irony! IT BURNS!"Oct 30 22:35
PetoKraushehe, my friend updated his ubuntuOct 30 22:36
PetoKrausand he can't connect using wirelessOct 30 22:36
PetoKrausit seems to have uninstalled the wpa-supplicant frontendOct 30 22:36
schestowitzInteresting thoughts in Splashtop: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0...Oct 30 22:37
schestowitzCan't he reinstall it?Oct 30 22:37
PetoKrauswell, he has to connect using wiredOct 30 22:37
schestowitzOhOct 30 22:38
PetoKrausthough - i mean, it's stupid, upgrade shouldn't break your systemOct 30 22:38
schestowitzI got the feeling that some time ago Canonical started to neglect the desktop to do their Remix thingie because that's where the money is.Oct 30 22:38
twitterupgrades are difficult, that's why Debian takes so long between releases.Oct 30 22:39
schestowitzI hope that I'm wrong, but it they can't produce a desktop as solid as several other vendors (Mandriva is good), then they should send those users where they belong and do their Remix thing.Oct 30 22:39
schestowitzFWIW, it's messy also with Mac OS and Windows (upgrades don't work well)Oct 30 22:39
PetoKraustwitter: though, debian's upgrade never broke my systemOct 30 22:40
PetoKraustwitter: from etch to lenny, that isOct 30 22:40
twitterthat's cool because lenny is still in testing.Oct 30 22:40
twitterI've goon from Woody to Sarge to Etch and now Lenny.  I've only had disk space problems, that I made for myself.  Otherwise, Debian upgrades have always been good to me.Oct 30 22:41
PetoKrausexactlyOct 30 22:42
PetoKrausubuntu? breaks.Oct 30 22:42
twitterOther distributions are better with a binary wipe from a CD, preserving your home directory.Oct 30 22:42
PetoKrausthough that is too much hassleOct 30 22:42
PetoKrausthat's why i like rolling-release much moreOct 30 22:43
twitterA CD install would be a little much every six months.Oct 30 22:43
twitterDebian children always have the maximum pain when Debian is about to go stable.  They have to pull from SID to differentiate themselves.  That's a useful service and it's less painful than running SID all the time yourself.Oct 30 22:46
twitterbut it can break things.Oct 30 22:46
PetoKrauswell, i am running gentoo ~arch, that means, quite new versions of stuffOct 30 22:47
PetoKrausit tends to be actually more stable than "stable" tree sometimesOct 30 22:47
twitterOne of these days, I'm going to have to try that out.Oct 30 22:47
PetoKrausdon't.... try archOct 30 22:48
PetoKrausgentoo is waste of timeOct 30 22:48
twitterI waste a lot of time.  :)Oct 30 22:48
PetoKrausarch is basically even simpler gentoo. Yes, you can't enable various use flags for your software, but when it breaks, you are reinstalled in almost no timeOct 30 22:49
schestowitzIt's an educational thing. Pick your poison. But Mandriva is a sweet ride.Oct 30 22:49
schestowitzIt hides the terminal from you. All very simply.Oct 30 22:49
schestowitz*simpleOct 30 22:49
PetoKrausi dunnoOct 30 22:49
PetoKrausi didn't like the KDE4Oct 30 22:49
PetoKrausi mean... nothing newOct 30 22:49
MinceRonly try arch if you don't need documentation, ever; and won't need to downgrade, ever.Oct 30 22:49
PetoKrausit seems old.Oct 30 22:49
schestowitzOK, I keep finding fakers.Oct 30 22:50
twitter"FWIW, it's messy also with Mac OS and Windows (upgrades don't work well)"  I don't know about Mac, but Windows upgrades are hell, second only to reinstall.  Never, ever, again.Oct 30 22:50
PetoKrausschestowitz: fakers?Oct 30 22:50
schestowitzThis guy who put me in his blogroll claims to have 130,000 readers, but the blog is PR3 and there's almost nothing happening there. Surely it's a fake.Oct 30 22:50
schestowitzPetoKraus: some site want to market themselves as big, so they make up numbersOct 30 22:50
twittergot to go for a whileOct 30 22:50
schestowitzI've seen that before. There's no law against it.Oct 30 22:51
PetoKrausit's just... with all that plasma stuff i expected something really bling-bling. and mandriva's KDE4 seems, well, nothing new, flashy...Oct 30 22:51
schestowitzCan't trust those numbers anymore.Oct 30 22:51
schestowitz*Crunch does that too, but maybe not a faker. I dunno anymore..Oct 30 22:51
PetoKrausI liked the idea of gadgets on desktop, though, E has it for quite a long time, only thing is - you can't rotate them in fancy positions...Oct 30 22:51
schestowitzI ripped superkaramba.Oct 30 22:52
schestowitzAll those widgets are a waste of space and resources.Oct 30 22:52
schestowitzYou also need to expose them for these widgets to be useful.Oct 30 22:52
schestowitzI can attach better meters to panelsOct 30 22:52
PetoKrauswell, that's what i am talking about.. In E, they are as resource-using, as, say, shelfOct 30 22:52
schestowitzI think I must change my priorities soon.Oct 30 22:53
PetoKrausi expected something macbookish from kde4...Oct 30 22:53
PetoKrausi didn't find it :/Oct 30 22:53
schestowitzI've been posting to USENET for years, but it's a lot of work.Oct 30 22:53
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellOct 30 22:59
twitterhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news...Oct 30 23:25
twitterthe worst is just starting.Oct 30 23:25
twitterdecades of anti-competitive practice by the automakers just made their failure bigger and more painfulOct 30 23:27
MinceRgnOct 30 23:29
schestowitz*GASP*Oct 30 23:30
schestowitzBloody heck. That's a lot of families.Oct 30 23:30
*[H]omer_ is now known as [H]omerOct 30 23:31
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerOct 30 23:32
*moparx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 30 23:33
josei'm going to try go get some sleep....Oct 30 23:56
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Oct 30 23:56

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