| twitter | M$'s problem is they want their software to wear out and do many things that leave it in a perpetually broken state. | Feb 13 00:00 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=new... Lol title how render a freaking triangle | Feb 13 00:00 |
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| oiaohm | fake limits is MS normaly way of doing it. | Feb 13 00:03 |
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| oiaohm | Ie ram limits. | Feb 13 00:03 |
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| oiaohm | Like vista and xp after the last server pack no long having a great PAE in 32 bit mode. | Feb 13 00:03 |
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| twitter | You know, I thought a little about the KDE for Windows thing and your idea of gradual migration being best. You completely overlook how different Vista and Windows 7 are. Now is a perfect time for people to move to GNU/Linux. | Feb 13 00:07 |
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| twitter | All of their applications are going to be broken by the move from XP and the users will be even more confused by Vista than they are by GNU/Linux. | Feb 13 00:08 |
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| oiaohm | And KDE 4.x works on 7 and Vista | Feb 13 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | "And"? | Feb 13 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | It's the same thing. | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| oiaohm | Yes its a window but not everyone will be migrated in that window. | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| twitter | That does not matter. The user is better served by GNU/Linux. | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| oiaohm | Issue is it does matter twitter | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| twitter | What is your issue, that people must have Windows at any cost? | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| oiaohm | You will learn what I know after many failed conversions. | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| twitter | That's brainwash. | Feb 13 00:09 |
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| oiaohm | You have it wrong. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| twitter | I've never seen a failed conversion. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | Person cannot afford a sudend change. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of people cannot. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | XP to Vista sudden change problems. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| twitter | Well Vista gives them that anyway. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | Same with XP to Linux. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| twitter | So you might as well liberate them | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | And are people sticking to XP like glue. | Feb 13 00:10 |
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| oiaohm | Yes they are. | Feb 13 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | OT: What kind of SICK society are laywers making?? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123419309890... | Feb 13 00:11 |
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| oiaohm | MS really has not liked that. | Feb 13 00:11 |
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| oiaohm | Same reason why MS failing to convert people to Vista is the same problem you hit converting to Linux. | Feb 13 00:11 |
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| twitter | Sure because most XP apps work under GNU/Linux in one way or another and migration for XP users is less painful than Vista users. | Feb 13 00:11 |
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| oiaohm | MS did too big of change too fast. | Feb 13 00:12 |
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| oiaohm | Its speed of conversion twitter | Feb 13 00:12 |
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| oiaohm | Right speed it happens take the conversion from 98 to XP. | Feb 13 00:12 |
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| twitter | M$ won't give up DRM, which is Vista's biggest problem. Users should move to free software right now, there is no better time. | Feb 13 00:12 |
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| oiaohm | It was fairly smooth. | Feb 13 00:12 |
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| oiaohm | That is what you are aiming for twitter to convert major numbers. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| twitter | Nothing was smooth about the conversion from 98 to XP. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | ""They don't have the right to read a book out loud," said Paul Aiken, executive director of the Authors Guild. "That's an audio right, which is derivative under copyright law."" | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| twitter | I aim for people to have software freedom. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| oiaohm | It was really. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| twitter | They won't get it from XP or Vista. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| oiaohm | Same here. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| twitter | XP was slow slow slow. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| oiaohm | We have the same long term aims. | Feb 13 00:13 |
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| twitter | That's why M$ drug their heels on Vista | Feb 13 00:14 |
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| oiaohm | 98 to XP for business users almost everything worked out box. | Feb 13 00:14 |
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| twitter | It took them three years or so to get 50% of their user base moved. Vista has been a complete failure because so many M$ users had just made the move. | Feb 13 00:14 |
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| oiaohm | Remember a person normally users at home what they use at work. | Feb 13 00:15 |
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| twitter | XP did not work out of the box! | Feb 13 00:15 |
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| oiaohm | For gamers no it did not. | Feb 13 00:15 |
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| oiaohm | For business side it did. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| twitter | It took years for them to get the devices working and they never did security right. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| twitter | Now they have removed XP drivers from Vista and security is still a mess. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| oiaohm | does businesses care about devices. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| oiaohm | They care if the machine runs. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| oiaohm | Secuirty is even lower down on the list to that. | Feb 13 00:16 |
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| twitter | M$ won't let users stay with XP - M$ is forcing Vista by device and hardware breakage. | Feb 13 00:17 |
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| twitter | Security is not low on the list when a business suffers weeks of outage due to worms! | Feb 13 00:17 |
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| twitter | It happens frequently. | Feb 13 00:17 |
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| oiaohm | Until it does they don't worry. | Feb 13 00:17 |
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| oiaohm | Working is the prime goal of business. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| oiaohm | Migration that risks down time is not something they will do. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| twitter | The reality for business is that they have to migrate away from XP and GNU/Linux offers most of what they are looking for. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| oiaohm | Slow migrations are required. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| twitter | familiar interfaces, stability, security and device compatibility. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| oiaohm | Ie if all internal documents are converted to openoffice that is not a problem when Linux change happens. | Feb 13 00:18 |
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| oiaohm | Now if that is not done first they will fear it. | Feb 13 00:19 |
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| oiaohm | With very good reason. | Feb 13 00:19 |
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| twitter | they even get to keep more of their apps than Vista will give them. | Feb 13 00:19 |
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| oiaohm | You need to start at the top of stack and work down. | Feb 13 00:19 |
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| oiaohm | Ie Application conversions then OS conversion. | Feb 13 00:19 |
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| oiaohm | All the time reducing there long term costs. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| twitter | I remember a conversion from Word Perfect to Word. It was ugly but happened quickly. A conversion to Open Office would be a lot easier and faster. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | Yes working to being MS free. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | Not alway twitter | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | Its documents with custom VBA stuff in it. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | That can be key to business operations that need to be recoded. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| twitter | That kind of crap is disposable - written by interns. | Feb 13 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | Its disposable yes. | Feb 13 00:21 |
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| oiaohm | But not having it work when you jump accross is majorly damaging. | Feb 13 00:21 |
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| oiaohm | Can cause them to backlash completely on the Linux conversion. | Feb 13 00:21 |
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| twitter | Big companies give that kind of work to interns to do in a week or two. OO has more than adequate tools for the job. | Feb 13 00:21 |
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| twitter | There will be no backlash in places like that. | Feb 13 00:22 |
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| *r0ver is now known as r0ver|brb | Feb 13 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Week or two most likely 2 months. | Feb 13 00:22 |
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| oiaohm | Number one for coding number 2 for testing. | Feb 13 00:22 |
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| twitter | Dude, I've done that kind of work myself for a fortune 100 company. It was trivial and NO ONE CARED. | Feb 13 00:22 |
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| oiaohm | Complete goal is do the conversion without anything failing. | Feb 13 00:22 |
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| oiaohm | I have done it for over 150 companies | Feb 13 00:23 |
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| oiaohm | Some go perfectly no one cares. | Feb 13 00:23 |
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| oiaohm | Some where its critical you are dead meat if it don't work. | Feb 13 00:23 |
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| twitter | VBA was the lamest of labor savings. Every staff member knew how to get the work done without it and the crap was constantly broken by the M$ treadmill. | Feb 13 00:24 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of VBA stuff I end up converting to kexi. | Feb 13 00:24 |
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| oiaohm | Most of it is in access databases. | Feb 13 00:24 |
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| oiaohm | That are not very nice to port accross either. | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| twitter | that kind of crap needs to be replaced with a proper database. | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| twitter | maybe a nice web interface | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| oiaohm | Exactly | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| oiaohm | First job is cleaning up the MS crap at application level out the system. | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| twitter | Better to do it with a full GNU/Linux migration than it is to waste time porting KDE to Windows. | Feb 13 00:25 |
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| oiaohm | So when migration happens it not biteing. | Feb 13 00:26 |
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| oiaohm | KDE to Windows also is about the User side. | Feb 13 00:26 |
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| oiaohm | Other big problem you have they jump accorss and don't know what applications are called. | Feb 13 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | Someone in BN warned me about this guy and he was right! http://lunduke.com/?p=155 | Feb 13 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | lunduke = mental blacklist | Feb 13 00:27 |
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| oiaohm | Basically anything reducing the barriors to moving is a good thing twitter | Feb 13 00:27 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: find out how MS feels about it | Feb 13 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | I see MS bloggers promoting Moonlight today | Feb 13 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | Which means that Mono and Moonlight are indeed harmful to Linux | Feb 13 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | Good for Microsoft = bad for Linux | Feb 13 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | Miguel gets his wage and it's "above his pay grade" | Feb 13 00:28 |
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| oiaohm | MS is getting desprate. | Feb 13 00:29 |
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| schestowitz | He f*s up the whole FOSS world with Novel's funding and Microsoft's help | Feb 13 00:29 |
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| oiaohm | List the locks MS has left in the market that are not under threat. | Feb 13 00:29 |
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| twitter | amazing. A town gets rid of their spy cams http://yro.slashdot.org/articl... | Feb 13 00:29 |
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| oiaohm | Moonlight is about trying to build a new lock becuase most of there locks have been taken out by the EU. | Feb 13 00:30 |
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| oiaohm | Besides most of the protected codecs in Moonlight are provide by Nvidia in there video accerlation. | Feb 13 00:30 |
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| oiaohm | Nice unstable lock there. | Feb 13 00:31 |
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| schestowitz | Byfield does MS: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os... | Feb 13 00:31 |
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| twitter | "Microsoft's repository for open source code" ha ha. | Feb 13 00:33 |
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| twitter | the article seems good for basic statistics. | Feb 13 00:34 |
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| twitter | but no one should really care about codeplex | Feb 13 00:34 |
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| oiaohm | http://sourcewell.berlios.de/ca... Everyone forgets this one. | Feb 13 00:35 |
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| twitter | " Those paranoid about Microsoft have seen them as proof of their obsessions; only those oriented towards business have entertained the idea that the efforts represented real change." It's not paranoia when they are really out to get you. | Feb 13 00:36 |
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| twitter | How many court documents and emails does Bruce Byfield need to see before he realizes how evil the company is. | Feb 13 00:37 |
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| twitter | There's nothing well meaning about any M$ action. It's always about what's best for M$, not "business", the customer or anything else. | Feb 13 00:38 |
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| oiaohm | twitter the problem you had your conversions so far have been the painless ones. | Feb 13 00:38 |
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| twitter | I've seen CAD people move. | Feb 13 00:38 |
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| oiaohm | Not the ones that take like year and a half of work to make possiable. | Feb 13 00:38 |
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| oiaohm | Without breaking critical operations. | Feb 13 00:39 |
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| twitter | M$ is breaking those same operations constantly. Better to move them to free software. | Feb 13 00:39 |
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| oiaohm | Supprising no. | Feb 13 00:39 |
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| oiaohm | setups on windows 2000 was scarely stable. | Feb 13 00:39 |
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| twitter | Not surprising. Breakage is their business model. | Feb 13 00:40 |
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| oiaohm | Some of the conversions I have done are mixed bag. | Feb 13 00:40 |
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| oiaohm | Some othere network 98 some 2000 some XP. | Feb 13 00:40 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of the 2000's on critical operations. | Feb 13 00:41 |
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| twitter | dinner time. | Feb 13 00:41 |
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| oiaohm | I have even come accross where 2003 is being used as a workstation for critical opertations. | Feb 13 00:41 |
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| oiaohm | Yes they spent 1000 dollars on a OS for a workstation. | Feb 13 00:41 |
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| oiaohm | Then you have the problem accountance don't like 1000 dollars worht of expendure put in bin. | Feb 13 00:43 |
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| schestowitz | I see that KDE 4.2 receives praises | Feb 13 00:44 |
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| schestowitz | A person who disliked 4.0 and 4.1 loves 4.2 | Feb 13 00:44 |
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| oiaohm | Its features | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| oiaohm | 3.5 is masively feature rich. | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | Parity? | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | I know.. | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | 3.4 was good too | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| oiaohm | It was kinda a rude shock to users that they are were missing. | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | I skipped 3.2 and 2.3 | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | *3.3 | Feb 13 00:46 |
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| schestowitz | Linus tried just 4.0 | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| schestowitz | Fedora, IIRC | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| schestowitz | He posted a bug report | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| schestowitz | Fedora 10 seems to be doing well too | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://server.ericsbinaryworld.com/... | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| oiaohm | Also part of the problem kde 4.x is also design with DRI2 in mind. | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| schestowitz | On KDE4: http://linuxowns.wordpress.com/2... | Feb 13 00:47 |
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| oiaohm | Would be fine if DRI 2 getting mainline is not masively behind time table. | Feb 13 00:48 |
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| oiaohm | Over a year past projected time table | Feb 13 00:48 |
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| schestowitz | KDE4 could waiy | Feb 13 00:52 |
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| schestowitz | No idea why they rushed it | Feb 13 00:52 |
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| schestowitz | 3.5 is spectacular | Feb 13 00:53 |
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| schestowitz | Even without KWin effect it has Compiz | Feb 13 00:53 |
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| schestowitz | How far RMS' contribs have come.. "This article is under GNU FDL license and can be distributed without any previous authorization from the author. However the author's name and all the URLs (links) mentioned in the article and biography must be kept." http://www.msokorea.com/consumer-electroni... | Feb 13 00:54 |
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| oiaohm | Simple problem 3.5 is internally stuffed. | Feb 13 00:54 |
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| schestowitz | The other GNU: GNU a fraud < http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?opti... > | Feb 13 00:54 |
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| oiaohm | They have pushed its internals completely to its limits. | Feb 13 00:54 |
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| schestowitz | GNU in Africa has a very bad name. Very. | Feb 13 00:55 |
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| oiaohm | 4.0 is basically a rewite removing most of the major core issues. | Feb 13 00:55 |
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| oiaohm | Now mistake was droping on the add on features. | Feb 13 00:55 |
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| schestowitz | I see no issues | Feb 13 00:55 |
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| *schestowitz loves KDE as it is | Feb 13 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Okay, it would be nice if KDE made koffee too :-0) | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| oiaohm | Theming engine. | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| oiaohm | KDE 3.5 its stuffed. | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| schestowitz | Hard to install more thems | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| schestowitz | *mes | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| schestowitz | But it has many built in | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| oiaohm | Device support major issues. | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| schestowitz | I change these occasionally for fun | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| schestowitz | Which devices? | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| oiaohm | Sound support equally major issues. | Feb 13 00:56 |
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| oiaohm | pda's and the like schestowitz | Feb 13 00:57 |
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| oiaohm | even system wide configurations 3.5 has issues doing them cleanly. | Feb 13 00:57 |
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| schestowitz | But one that's compatible | Feb 13 00:57 |
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| schestowitz | *Buy | Feb 13 00:57 |
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| oiaohm | Yep kinda does not work. | Feb 13 00:57 |
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| oiaohm | KDE 3.5 running on freebsd solarias and Linux all have different device support. | Feb 13 00:58 |
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| oiaohm | Even that they are all the same version of KDE. | Feb 13 00:58 |
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| oiaohm | solid is about sorting that out with global configurations. | Feb 13 00:58 |
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| oiaohm | Basically KDE 3.5 has some major kernel messes. | Feb 13 00:59 |
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| oiaohm | Arts sound system did not help compadiblity with non KDE applcications. | Feb 13 00:59 |
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| schestowitz | arts is being phased out gradually, no? | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| oiaohm | There basically comes a point where to fix the problems is rebuild. | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| schestowitz | I don't want to pronounce its death prematurely. | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| oiaohm | Kde 3.5 users arts. KDE 4.0 does not. | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: kde gives the option | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| oiaohm | Kinda not gradually. | Feb 13 01:00 |
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| schestowitz | Or the packager (distro) does | Feb 13 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | KDE has photon | Feb 13 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | All access from KDE 4 to arts is threw that. | Feb 13 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | Same with access gstreamer and the like. | Feb 13 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | arts is really not part of KDE 4. | Feb 13 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | arts is basically another thing like pulse audio. | Feb 13 01:02 |
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| schestowitz | Ashlee Vance with another trollish article: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/netbooks-a... | Feb 13 01:06 |
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| oiaohm | Imploding for who. | Feb 13 01:06 |
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| schestowitz | Not the environment, that's for sure :-) | Feb 13 01:07 |
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| schestowitz | Similar headline to mine: Microsoft wants an anti-Linux chief < http://vista.blorge.com/2009/02/10/mic... > | Feb 13 01:25 |
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| oiaohm | Microsoft has a problem how to you be anti something that is not one thing. | Feb 13 01:27 |
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| schestowitz | Precisely. | Feb 13 01:31 |
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| schestowitz | They said so explicitly. ballmer said it around 2005 | Feb 13 01:31 |
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| schestowitz | They are used to buying or crashing stuff. | Feb 13 01:31 |
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| schestowitz | *crushing | Feb 13 01:32 |
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| *zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Feb 13 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Undermining is also hard to do against open source. | Feb 13 01:34 |
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| oiaohm | The bugger normally forks out of it. | Feb 13 01:34 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, thus hatred of licences like GPL | Feb 13 01:35 |
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| schestowitz | You take, you MUST give back | Feb 13 01:35 |
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| schestowitz | Thus empowering the forkers | Feb 13 01:35 |
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| oiaohm | GPL v3 they hate more. | Feb 13 01:36 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000... Some people like starting the predictable. | Feb 13 01:37 |
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| schestowitz | yes | Feb 13 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | It defangs their patent teeth | Feb 13 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | "Ina Fried" *puke puke* it's an MS mouth | Feb 13 01:45 |
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| MethodOne | schestowitz, what distro and desktop environment do you currently use? | Feb 13 02:18 |
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| schestowitz | I use Mandriva and KDE on my main box. | Feb 13 02:21 |
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| MethodOne | thanks | Feb 13 02:22 |
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| MethodOne | there's one problem with clamav: it doesn't detect the epstein-barr virus in mono and programs that depend on it. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infect... if you don't know what i mean | Feb 13 02:36 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | Feb 13 02:38 |
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| schestowitz | Thee's mononono | Feb 13 02:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/ | Feb 13 02:39 |
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| MethodOne | might as well make a mononono package for arch linux | Feb 13 02:45 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Feb 13 02:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Feb 13 04:08 |
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| NeonF|oss | schestowitz: whats your opinion on bill gates as an individual? | Feb 13 04:25 |
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| schestowitz | NeonF|oss: why do you ask? | Feb 13 04:26 |
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| NeonF|oss | dunno - I hear a lot about microsoft being bad - then I hear about bill gates doing some good stuff... im too laxy to do good research so I ask the expert (you) | Feb 13 04:28 |
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| NeonF|oss | :P | Feb 13 04:28 |
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| schestowitz | It requires a long explanation with a lot of supportive evidence; no room for concision here. | Feb 13 04:28 |
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| NeonF|oss | ok - then ill google it | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| NeonF|oss | got any suggested links? | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | Be careful whose sources. Gates owns a lot of press | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | I could do a post about it | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | Or just blurt out a quick explanation. | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| NeonF|oss | heh | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | Here goes. | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| NeonF|oss | :) | Feb 13 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | I ought to get some sleep soon though | Feb 13 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | Gates was born in a very affluent family. | Feb 13 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | His family had some sort of tradition of 'tyranny' in the sense that, as far as I know, there was government background (his grandfather) | Feb 13 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | His dad had many connections with people in high places | Feb 13 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | Later he got ttogether with Abramoff, but that's another story Abramoff is in jail now) | Feb 13 04:32 |
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| schestowitz | The story tells that a lot of what Gates was able to achieve was done behind the scenes (like secret societies) by his dad and his friends. | Feb 13 04:32 |
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| schestowitz | But then comes the role of his young adult life | Feb 13 04:33 |
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| schestowitz | He raised some sort of prospect/career for 'tealing' other people's ideas | Feb 13 04:33 |
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| schestowitz | To get computer time, he and Allen sabotaged the machines (so that they can 'fix' them) | Feb 13 04:33 |
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| schestowitz | With some help from his mother IIRC he got help from IBM (a deal) | Feb 13 04:33 |
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| schestowitz | He later screwed them | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | This involved sabotage | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | The pattern persisted for many years | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | The gagg of Ballmer, Gates, Silverberg, Kempin and other bullies like Allchin.. | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | In 1998 business was already bad | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft practically lost $18 billiob | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | The whole thing was built on imaginary wealth, in part | Feb 13 04:34 |
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| schestowitz | Many companies in the US do this | Feb 13 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | Which may related to what became FrausStreet | Feb 13 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | A place for capital in small startup | Feb 13 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | Then devolving into trade in funny money, i.e. escapism from the original goals | Feb 13 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | Rather than trade chickens for albums, for exmple, you'd trade some shares | Feb 13 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | So Microsoft had a possible financial blunder | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | Gates tepped down | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmer was put in charge to just milk money as long as he could | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | The criminal scheming persisted, as antitrust evidence clearly shows | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | Gates Foundation was created | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | This provided a haven tax | Feb 13 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | Pet charities are to be found in many other places | Feb 13 04:37 |
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| schestowitz | They are a legal loophole | Feb 13 04:37 |
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| schestowitz | They enable imrovement of business under guise of 'goodness' and bliss | Feb 13 04:37 |
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| schestowitz | The public can buy this perc eption because it's hard to criticise something that's called a charity | Feb 13 04:37 |
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| schestowitz | Moreover, this 'charity' can buy media companies and attack fogs to fight media that is not obedient, i.e. that which says the truth about pet charitiesa | Feb 13 04:38 |
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| schestowitz | Gates FOundation got exposed too | Feb 13 04:38 |
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| schestowitz | I think it was the Sun Mercury (?? name) that showed where the money was going | Feb 13 04:38 |
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| schestowitz | The Gates Foundation essentially bribes government and also invests money in the same companies whom it tells government to pass money to | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | Gates needn't pay tax | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | So another abuser/harvester called Warren Buffett chipped in | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | Why pay tax (back to the public) when you can stash it in some bank account with "charity" label | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | And so the myth grew | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | Gates is now raising offshoots | Feb 13 04:39 |
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| schestowitz | Patent trolling, political activism (to help Microsoft), etc. | Feb 13 04:40 |
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| schestowitz | So that's just pretty much the story | Feb 13 04:40 |
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| schestowitz | About a company that milked the system, broke the law and then used the media to pretend all was charming and benevolent. | Feb 13 04:40 |
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| schestowitz | I'm off to bed now. | Feb 13 04:40 |
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| schestowitz | Cya in the morning. | Feb 13 04:40 |
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| NeonF|oss | wow | Feb 13 04:52 |
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| NeonF|oss | thanks | Feb 13 04:52 |
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| NeonF|oss | :P | Feb 13 04:52 |
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| MinceR | j0 | Feb 13 09:16 |
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| *zer0c00l says room is in pin drop silence :D | Feb 13 10:12 |
| *zer0c00l knows one half of the world is sleeping ;) | Feb 13 10:13 |
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| schestowitz | Morning. | Feb 13 10:27 |
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| oiaohm | Hi schestowitz its night | Feb 13 10:27 |
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| schestowitz | Good night | Feb 13 10:27 |
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| *schestowitz back to bed | Feb 13 10:27 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Feb 13 10:27 |
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| zer0c00l | hi schestowitz | Feb 13 10:32 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, what's' up? | Feb 13 10:33 |
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| zer0c00l | just wanted to say hii..is it night there? | Feb 13 10:34 |
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| zer0c00l | then good night sorry for distrubing you | Feb 13 10:34 |
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| zer0c00l | :) | Feb 13 10:34 |
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| zer0c00l | those news on the front page of boycottnovell are very usefull :) | Feb 13 10:36 |
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| oiaohm | Having some connections fun my end. Its night here. | Feb 13 10:36 |
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| zer0c00l | its evening here :( | Feb 13 10:36 |
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| zer0c00l | :) | Feb 13 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | zer0c00l: glad you find them handy. | Feb 13 10:37 |
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| zer0c00l | yeah i liked the ubuntu windoze 7 benchmark link | Feb 13 10:37 |
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| zer0c00l | also those games | Feb 13 10:37 |
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| zer0c00l | i am going to organize a club event here in college..those links are very usefull for my presentation | Feb 13 10:38 |
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| zer0c00l | *club event on linux | Feb 13 10:38 |
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| zer0c00l | https://fossbazaar.org/content/open-sou... i comment there on the post | Feb 13 10:40 |
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| zer0c00l | *made a comment on that post | Feb 13 10:40 |
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| zer0c00l | she has mentioned something about NRCFOSS (which is a org created by indian govt for promoting foss) but isn't doing well | Feb 13 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe.. so true. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZlrGU... | Feb 13 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I saw that post left out microsoft's well documented crimes in India | Feb 13 10:42 |
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| zer0c00l | she never mentioned about ooxml | Feb 13 10:42 |
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| zer0c00l | and painted wipro as a foss friend | Feb 13 10:43 |
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| zer0c00l | but wipro isn't | Feb 13 10:43 |
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| zer0c00l | they are proxies of microsoft in india | Feb 13 10:43 |
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| zer0c00l | *wipro voted for ooxml | Feb 13 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | Yuck | Feb 13 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | Wipro | Feb 13 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | I view them as accomplices | Feb 13 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/custom?q=wipr... | Feb 13 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | witz.com%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en | Feb 13 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. Wait. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=... | Feb 13 10:45 |
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| zer0c00l | i see a lot about wipro :) | Feb 13 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, links therein too, so it closes some circles. I have more outside BN | Feb 13 10:48 |
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| zer0c00l | time to attend a metting | Feb 13 10:57 |
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| zer0c00l | bye | Feb 13 10:57 |
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| oiaohm | LOL | Feb 13 11:27 |
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| oiaohm | That was a mother of a link schestowitz | Feb 13 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | WHich one? | Feb 13 11:34 |
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| oiaohm | The one you went Opps on. | Feb 13 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | Linux celebrates its 1234567890'th breath < http://www.itwire.com/content/v... > | Feb 13 11:37 |
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| oiaohm | That is from unix | Feb 13 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 13 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | I thought the same thing. | Feb 13 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | The DisneyWorld (*cough*) of IT ain't so rosy: More job cuts ahead at Google < http://www.itwire.com/content/... > | Feb 13 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | 1970 | Feb 13 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | Pitty most Unixs where not around to party over it. | Feb 13 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | NHS is a mess...... http://www.smarthealthcare.com/almei... | Feb 13 11:41 |
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| oiaohm | Could have told you that was comming. | Feb 13 11:42 |
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| oiaohm | Future contract for me with Google got canceled on me. | Feb 13 11:42 |
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| oiaohm | Day before it passed the point of no return. | Feb 13 11:43 |
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| oiaohm | That really suxed. | Feb 13 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | What a waste of engineering... http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/... | Feb 13 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | Google Axes Radio Ads < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/0... > | Feb 13 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | Nice new design in FSFE's site: http://blogs.fsfe.org/ciaran/?p=171 | Feb 13 11:49 |
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| oiaohm | Ok the missed the other way to win in battle. | Feb 13 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | Australian colin class subs have it. | Feb 13 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | Don't be invincibility or invisibility. Be able to clone the signature of your enemy. | Feb 13 11:52 |
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| oiaohm | If they cannot tell friend from foe they can blow there own units up. | Feb 13 11:52 |
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| oiaohm | Caused minor caos when Australian opertator in a USA Australian war game typoed and changed signature to a russian attack sub. | Feb 13 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder how the deficit will affect armament, esp. in the US. | Feb 13 11:55 |
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| oiaohm | I don't think it will be 100 percent invisable. | Feb 13 11:56 |
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| oiaohm | thinking sonar exists that can pickup a diver in the water. | Feb 13 11:56 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but that makes a sales pitch | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| oiaohm | I still like the Australian method better. | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| jose__ | http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Micr... | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| jose__ | great move by microsoft | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| jose__ | great for us | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| oiaohm | Yep double cross there OEMS. | Feb 13 11:57 |
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| oiaohm | MS is getting desperate. | Feb 13 11:58 |
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| jose__ | or maybe the honeymoon was over | Feb 13 11:58 |
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| jose__ | already | Feb 13 11:58 |
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| oiaohm | Think about it you are a OEM building MS machines and MS opens a store down the road. | Feb 13 11:59 |
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| oiaohm | MS is desprate to concider a move like this. | Feb 13 12:00 |
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| oiaohm | Risks making more people sell Linux stuff. | Feb 13 12:00 |
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| jose__ | yup | Feb 13 12:00 |
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| jose__ | differentiator | Feb 13 12:01 |
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| jose__ | you can't compete with an ms store | Feb 13 12:01 |
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| jose__ | of course, linux can't stand still | Feb 13 12:01 |
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| jose__ | or this could possibly even backfire | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| jose__ | ? | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| jose__ | ms had it easy | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| jose__ | if they go retail, their costs should go up | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| jose__ | things aren't looking great for them id' think | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| oiaohm | Quote the cost for a OEM store to have 10 copyies of | Feb 13 12:02 |
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| oiaohm | Vista and office + 1 server | Feb 13 12:03 |
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| oiaohm | For there business use. | Feb 13 12:03 |
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| oiaohm | Its 699 AUD for me. | Feb 13 12:03 |
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| jose__ | going retail offers a chance for ms to sell their hw crap | Feb 13 12:03 |
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| jose__ | i don't think ms has lower ambitions that to own everything at some point in time | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| jose__ | so it makes sense for them to expand this way at some point | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: good news indeed | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | It shows that they run out of money | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| jose__ | but i think their hand is being forced | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | Which I knew | Feb 13 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | They tried h/w with ZUne and XBox | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| schestowitz | It failed badly | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| jose__ | ms store might become a very big joke | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | MS can heavly discount there software. | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | MS has lots control of the big 5 OEM builders. | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | IBM HP ASUS DELL and SONY. | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| jose__ | oh | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| jose__ | i hope they didn't buy up the leftovers of circuit city for cheap | Feb 13 12:05 |
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| jose__ | has or had | Feb 13 12:06 |
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| oiaohm | MS has a disadvantage. | Feb 13 12:06 |
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| jose__ | ms is stepping on more toes now.. like you said | Feb 13 12:06 |
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| oiaohm | Name a CPU maker who is going to double cross the big open makers. | Feb 13 12:06 |
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| oiaohm | Remember super computer builders take almost as many processes as the complete desktop market. | Feb 13 12:07 |
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| oiaohm | VIA maybe but that is about it for x86 chips. | Feb 13 12:08 |
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| oiaohm | Company in death throws is funny. | Feb 13 12:08 |
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| jose__ | i'll be laughing more when i actually see the money in the drain | Feb 13 12:09 |
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| jose__ | i don't underestimate ms | Feb 13 12:09 |
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| jose__ | maybe laugh while i double up my efforts | Feb 13 12:09 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft security news: bounty on cyber-criminals; botnet problem; "critical" vulnerabilities and more: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13/b... | Feb 13 12:09 |
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| oiaohm | Problem I have I don't see a way forward for MS. | Feb 13 12:09 |
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| oiaohm | You did put the comment in there the bounties are only so they have someone to blame other than the own incompetence schestowitz | Feb 13 12:10 |
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| oiaohm | Nice | Feb 13 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, you put it better than I did. | Feb 13 12:20 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.thelocal.se/17554/20090212/ Seen this one yet schestowitz pirate bay guys got. | Feb 13 12:50 |
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| schestowitz | It will be broadcated. | Feb 13 12:51 |
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| schestowitz | *casted | Feb 13 12:51 |
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| schestowitz | But they face a Big MAFIAA. Mafia with money controls laws, through corruptible politicians. | Feb 13 12:52 |
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| oiaohm | remeber less piracy more people who have to look to something legal. | Feb 13 12:54 |
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| schestowitz | They ignore the legitimate stuff on there | Feb 13 12:57 |
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| schestowitz | P2P and torrent merely pass files | Feb 13 12:57 |
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| schestowitz | They are not entertainment machines. They just pass information around, just like HTTP, FTP, Telnet, voice, pen and paper... | Feb 13 12:58 |
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| oiaohm | There are some legal questions about that. | Feb 13 12:58 |
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| oiaohm | A tracker provides a linking point between them. | Feb 13 12:58 |
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| schestowitz | You can't stop people communicatingh | Feb 13 12:58 |
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| schestowitz | You can try to keep them more isolated | Feb 13 12:58 |
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| schestowitz | You could impede communication, but where's the ethics in that? | Feb 13 12:59 |
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| oiaohm | You can done for providing a link to pirated software on web pages in lots of countries. | Feb 13 12:59 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, a tracker gives points, BUT | Feb 13 12:59 |
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| schestowitz | Google gives pointers too | Feb 13 12:59 |
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| schestowitz | Does it make Google illegal? | Feb 13 12:59 |
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| schestowitz | In China they sued some search engines for doing what they do... crawling and indexing pages for searchers | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| oiaohm | Try searching for illegal software by name on google. | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| oiaohm | Its a little hard to find. | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| oiaohm | Google does obey removal requests from search. | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| schestowitz | It doesn't stop it though | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| oiaohm | Stop it no makes it harder. | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| schestowitz | Determined searchers will get what they want | Feb 13 13:00 |
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| schestowitz | It's like stopping the kid from having candy by putting it above the high shelf | Feb 13 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | In fact, you make the stuff even more desirable that way | Feb 13 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | Scarcity of information make it a taboo | Feb 13 13:01 |
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| schestowitz | "DON'T CLOCK HERE" (social engineering) | Feb 13 13:01 |
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| oiaohm | No its more like hiding the candy bar. | Feb 13 13:01 |
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| oiaohm | Not every kid will be smart enough or determined enough to find it. | Feb 13 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | DON"T CLICK THIS!!! >> http://www.ubersoft.net/comi... | Feb 13 13:02 |
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| oiaohm | System admin | Feb 13 13:02 |
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| oiaohm | don't click this gets obeyed after nukeing a system for having too much cat. | Feb 13 13:02 |
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| sanskumar | lets boycottnovell :) | Feb 13 13:09 |
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| schestowitz | Let's | Feb 13 13:11 |
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| *burmas (n=thomas@218-177-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") | Feb 13 13:11 |
| schestowitz | By what means would you otherwise bring change? | Feb 13 13:12 |
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| *sanskumar is confused | Feb 13 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Oh.. :-) | Feb 13 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | I meant, yes, let us boycott. | Feb 13 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know what else to try to correct Novell. Many people tried other means in November 2006. Novell declines. | Feb 13 13:17 |
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| jose__ | reverse psychology works.. but not in everything | Feb 13 13:21 |
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| jose__ | when people don't explain or appear to be hiding things.. then it tends to work more | Feb 13 13:21 |
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| jose__ | when you unmask and reveal as much as possible.. there you are more likely to get different results | Feb 13 13:21 |
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| jose__ | the motivations and forwardness of those "giving advice" plays a role | Feb 13 13:23 |
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| jose__ | and if people do the opposite.. they might be willing to bail out quicker if what was said appears to be confirmed. | Feb 13 13:23 |
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| jose__ | that's not to imply "we" are correct or pure or anything | Feb 13 13:24 |
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| jose__ | personally, i don't like reverse psychology | Feb 13 13:24 |
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| jose__ | it's a show of strength.. as well as respect.. to try and be forward | Feb 13 13:24 |
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| jose__ | short-term you may suffer some and not get the quick result you desired.. but long term is what counts | Feb 13 13:26 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's 'limited' beta | Feb 13 13:29 |
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| jose__ | being deceptive can be fun.. but there is a point after which it is not fun | Feb 13 13:31 |
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| jose__ | ha ha ha ha | Feb 13 13:33 |
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| jose__ | I was just kidding!!! | Feb 13 13:33 |
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| jose__ | .. | Feb 13 13:33 |
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| jose__ | ;-) | Feb 13 13:33 |
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| jose__ | An softie talking to us about trust: | Feb 13 13:44 |
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| jose__ | "Cloud computing is ultimately going to be, do you trust this provider to have more to lose than I have to lose as a company if they mess me up?" Ozzie [pictured] said in an interview with ZDNet UK's sister site, CNET News.com, in Los Angeles on Monday at Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference. | Feb 13 13:44 |
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| jose__ | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1... | Feb 13 13:44 |
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| jose__ | this is from last year, btw | Feb 13 13:44 |
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| jose__ | we should trust them about as much as they trust us | Feb 13 13:45 |
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| jose__ | we know how open Microsoft is after all | Feb 13 13:45 |
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| schestowitz | Wow. | Feb 13 13:45 |
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| schestowitz | 160+ banks breached | Feb 13 13:45 |
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| schestowitz | Due to "malware" | Feb 13 13:45 |
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| jose__ | details? | Feb 13 13:46 |
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| schestowitz | CNET is Microsoft/Apple | Feb 13 13:46 |
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| schestowitz | Ozzie is their tool for the illusion of gentle Microsoft because he has 'cleaner' history. | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: wait, I'll post | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| schestowitz | Help me prooofread | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| jose__ | ok | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| jose__ | it sounds very juicy | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| jose__ | but maybe you are just teasing us | Feb 13 13:47 |
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| schestowitz | OK, here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13... | Feb 13 13:48 |
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| schestowitz | Symbian Foundation in anti-Android recruit drive < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... > | Feb 13 13:50 |
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| schestowitz | Lenovo cuts 550 jobs across Europe < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/02/1... > | Feb 13 13:50 |
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| jose__ | http://www.heartlandpaymentsystems.c... | Feb 13 13:51 |
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| jose__ | they use .asp pages | Feb 13 13:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_repor... | Feb 13 13:51 |
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| schestowitz | Many US-based companies do.... same in the UK | Feb 13 13:51 |
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| jose__ | breaches can happen to anyone.. was their software vuln or was it a people problem | Feb 13 13:52 |
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| jose__ | and if sw, what part of it | Feb 13 13:52 |
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| schestowitz | English -speaking countries (maybe with the exception of SA to an extent) are in Microsoft's pocket. | Feb 13 13:52 |
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| jose__ | from that last page i linked: | Feb 13 13:53 |
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| jose__ | >> Plus, because we developed the platform internally, you don’t have to worry about the crippling time and cost constraints that often hamper the development of technological innovations. | Feb 13 13:53 |
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| jose__ | >> For example, to better secure your customers’ cardholder data, we’re currently developing end-to-end encryption. This industry-leading innovation takes security to the next level, encrypting card numbers at the time of swiping — thereby, protecting data in motion in addition to data at rest. | Feb 13 13:54 |
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| jose__ | note the repeat use of "innovation" | Feb 13 13:54 |
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| jose__ | innovating my money and security away | Feb 13 13:54 |
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| jose__ | >> At Heartland, we put the power of innovation and technology to work | Feb 13 13:55 |
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| jose__ | that's a lot of innovation | Feb 13 13:55 |
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| jose__ | almost missed this one.. right at the beginning: | Feb 13 13:55 |
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| jose__ | >> At its heart, Heartland is all about innovation | Feb 13 13:55 |
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| jose__ | I just like that word.. it reminds me of a few of my favorite things .. girls in white dresses.. and Microsoft.. and software patents | Feb 13 13:56 |
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| jose__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUno0WNot5U | Feb 13 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | Hm..... | Feb 13 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | /Whose/ power do they "to work"? | Feb 13 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | The crackers'? | Feb 13 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* " girls in white dresses.. and Microsoft.. and software paten" | Feb 13 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | I like that song. Don't ruin it with gangster connotations | Feb 13 13:59 |
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| jose__ | enjoy the flick | Feb 13 13:59 |
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| jose__ | it should help your mind recover | Feb 13 13:59 |
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| jose__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FMkgwTP3o | Feb 13 14:00 |
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| schestowitz | The original is better | Feb 13 14:01 |
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| schestowitz | You can envision some madman jumping on stage and shouting "I love this company" (similar idea) | Feb 13 14:02 |
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| jose__ | see i go to some trouble to bring entertainment and keep you sane and all you can think about is | Feb 13 14:04 |
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| jose__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6rqXHX3O48 | Feb 13 14:04 |
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| jose__ | turn to minute 1:10 | Feb 13 14:05 |
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| schestowitz | Someone from Novell just told me: "you have delivered amazing work and the world should know its freedom of speech and controverse in a factual matter" | Feb 13 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | I know this video too. It's great | Feb 13 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmer lip-synchs well | Feb 13 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | "frankinstein looks like mccain" | Feb 13 14:13 |
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| jose__ | careful about schmoozers.. but yes, I agree bn has a lot of great stuff | Feb 13 14:14 |
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| jose__ | roy, one thing you might consider | Feb 13 14:15 |
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| jose__ | is to license the material so that others can build their own fronts to the parts of it they like | Feb 13 14:15 |
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| jose__ | this way, the info can reach wider audiences and bn can keep going | Feb 13 14:15 |
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| jose__ | without worrying about marketing | Feb 13 14:15 |
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| jose__ | licensing.. i'm thinking one of the cc licenses (to preserve integrity of data but allow profiting) | Feb 13 14:16 |
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| jose__ | people may like the idea and not mind giving you back a small cut of ads money and such to simplify things for you | Feb 13 14:16 |
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| jose__ | i didn't mention this when the topic came up by "Friend" because i don't know what demand out there is | Feb 13 14:17 |
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| jose__ | also some things are raw | Feb 13 14:17 |
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| jose__ | since this is evolving work | Feb 13 14:17 |
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| jose__ | so be careful about what others will (ab)use | Feb 13 14:17 |
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| jose__ | most things i have seen though are very good.. it's only that sometimes you appear to get a little carried away | Feb 13 14:18 |
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| jose__ | i can do that on irc and comments because i'm no one | Feb 13 14:18 |
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| jose__ | but you don't have that luxury | Feb 13 14:18 |
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| jose__ | :-) | Feb 13 14:18 |
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| jose__ | well you do, but be careful | Feb 13 14:18 |
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| schestowitz | What licence to use? | Feb 13 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | We never appended any notification regarding copies | Feb 13 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | The Wiki has it though | Feb 13 14:20 |
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| jose__ | i don't know current law, but i expect that those posting opinions implictly give permission for reading at least from this site | Feb 13 14:21 |
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| jose__ | you'd want more than that ideally.. ' | Feb 13 14:21 |
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| jose__ | not sure what practice is on the Internet for blogging | Feb 13 14:22 |
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| jose__ | if you got ad money, you could beef up servers and allow direct linking instead of mirroring | Feb 13 14:22 |
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| jose__ | worst case, filter out the comments | Feb 13 14:23 |
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| jose__ | though you have (and can more formally get) my permission to reproduce what I have written under a suitable license | Feb 13 14:24 |
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| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 13 14:24 |
| jose__ | also, beware of people that will want to tag bn with "doing it for the money" | Feb 13 14:25 |
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| jose__ | i know you are sensitive to that | Feb 13 14:25 |
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| *MethodOne has quit ("Leaving") | Feb 13 14:25 |
| jose__ | however, getting the word out is still useful | Feb 13 14:25 |
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| jose__ | otoh, a lot of the content doesn't need to reach everyone.. just strategic individuals | Feb 13 14:26 |
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| *MethodOne (n=methodon@h69-131-37-228.clevwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 13 14:26 |
| MethodOne | instead of a mononono package for arch linux, i submitted this bug report: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13253 | Feb 13 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: yes, that's why I wanted Shane's ads removed | Feb 13 14:30 |
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| schestowitz | But he pays for hosting | Feb 13 14:30 |
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| schestowitz | MethodOne: thanks. | Feb 13 14:30 |
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| *zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving") | Feb 13 14:31 |
| jose__ | MethodOne could you add a link to http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/04/th... on my behalf.. i think you have to have a login account to post | Feb 13 14:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/... | Feb 13 14:35 |
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| jose__ | well, add it if you agree and want.. i'll keep your bug report link handy for when/if i get an account there | Feb 13 14:35 |
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| MethodOne | some people who criticize your blog say it's just about "a thousand reasons why microsoft sucks", but you do give valid points | Feb 13 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | I just got some message from an FSFE fellow: "I appreciate the work you're doing." | Feb 13 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | MethodOne: thanks. We don't do bashing ("Zune sucks" etc.), we give reaons | Feb 13 14:39 |
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| MethodOne | ok | Feb 13 14:39 |
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| schestowitz | I've just improved the Wiki a lot.. I'm adding the court order. ""..all Comes documents were released by the Iowa judge's court order - those marked "Confidential" were prior to that order. if you don't have it I can find the PDF for you, it was part of the site. Grouch's mirror (edge-op.org) is regarded by PJ as being the only reliable Comes mirror; he had posted his wget logs which proves the origins of the files." | Feb 13 14:40 |
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| *mib_qafiob (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8157fd2af393eb74) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 13 14:55 |
| *mib_qafiob has quit (Client Quit) | Feb 13 14:55 |
| jose__ | the bug report was closed already | Feb 13 14:56 |
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| jose__ | >> Reason for closing: Not a bug | Feb 13 14:57 |
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| jose__ | Additional comments about closing: tomboy is part of the gnome desktop. The gnome group contains the basic parts of gnome, gnome-extra is supposed to contain everything else from the desktop suite. | Feb 13 14:57 |
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| jose__ | also | Feb 13 14:57 |
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| jose__ | >> gnome-extra is not a meta package, but a group from which you can choose what to install. Just say no to the apps you dont need. | Feb 13 14:57 |
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| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 13 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Who is closing these bug reports? | Feb 13 15:01 |
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| jose__ | i can see the name but i don't know who anyone is | Feb 13 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | There is always the chance that those with a hand on the tap are Mono devs | Feb 13 15:01 |
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| jose__ | Grigorios Bouzakis (dolby) | Feb 13 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | I've seen this happen in Ubuntu | Feb 13 15:01 |
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| jose__ | first make sure it is a legit bug. | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| jose__ | is it something crucial or not | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | Seems like mostly an arch dev | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | Nothing sinister.. | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcli... | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| twitter | yo ho, yo ho, M$ Retail Failure, http://slashdot.org/fireho... | Feb 13 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | They just don't want to listen. The Novell propaganda get 'em. | Feb 13 15:03 |
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| twitter | bombed to oblivion already. | Feb 13 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it will also empty their coffers for good | Feb 13 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | It shows they lack direction | Feb 13 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | Had they managed to carry on with business, they would resort to selling hardware, filing patents, opening stores, etc. | Feb 13 15:04 |
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| MethodOne | maybe i've been using debian-based distros too much | Feb 13 15:04 |
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| MethodOne | and i think of the metapackages there | Feb 13 15:04 |
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| twitter | Slashdot picked up another, more positive entry http://slashdot.org/article.pl... | Feb 13 15:04 |
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| jose__ | MethodOne, I am not agreeing with what was said since i don't know. i assume it's correct. | Feb 13 15:06 |
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| *tinagasperson (i=6161aed4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6324f444ab4db8e2) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 13 15:07 |
| schestowitz | I lobbied journos to cover the issues with Mono/Moonlight when they write about it. | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Apathy prevails | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, Tina! | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Here is one response I got (anonymised) | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | "Thanks for writing. I respect the energy and skepticism you bring to the anti-Novell site (are you still running that?) but having read and written about so many patent cross-licensing deals, so many joint marketing deals, so many reseller/distributor deals, between so many companies, over the course of so many years, I just can't see anything all that unusual in the MS/Novell partnership." | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | "There are sure a lot of things not to like about Microsoft, and I do tend to suspect their motives in a lot of cases, but their deal with Novell hasn't been one of them. " | Feb 13 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | They are always the same people who cover Mono/Moonlight news, and it's always described as a Good Thing. | Feb 13 15:08 |
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| tinagasperson | hello. | Feb 13 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | I see you write for Jupitermedia now. | Feb 13 15:08 |
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| MethodOne | in debian-based distros, there are metapackages like "gnome" and "kde" | Feb 13 15:08 |
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| MethodOne | and "build-essential" | Feb 13 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | Does arch have a DE preference? | Feb 13 15:14 |
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| twitter | Ummm, can't these so called journalist see a difference between non free cross licensing and patent claims on free software? | Feb 13 15:15 |
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| twitter | Sure, all of it is anti-competitive and bad but it all leads to the present where there is basically no commercial competition left and free software is the last target. | Feb 13 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | They confuse this with the Novell deal | Feb 13 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | Shane choosing the site name "Boycott Novell" does *not* help | Feb 13 15:17 |
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| twitter | What would you like the site to be named? | Feb 13 15:18 |
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| twitter | Is this you Tina? http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/author.php... | Feb 13 15:18 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13/... | Feb 13 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: something like "intellectual monopoly watch", maybe? | Feb 13 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Just no negativism in the title | Feb 13 15:19 |
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| twitter | Software Monopoly Watch? | Feb 13 15:20 |
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| twitter | nice article, http://www.linux.com/feature/147981 | Feb 13 15:25 |
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| twitter | The poor woman's history is even more scattered than my own. | Feb 13 15:25 |
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| twitter | I'm glad she found a place in the free software world. | Feb 13 15:25 |
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| twitter | nice to have you here tina. What are you working on? | Feb 13 15:28 |
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| jose__ | i can live with boycottnovell | Feb 13 15:28 |
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| jose__ | preferable would be something like Avoid Monopolysoft | Feb 13 15:29 |
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| jose__ | but that's just me | Feb 13 15:30 |
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| jose__ | roy, your suggestion probably represents what you do best | Feb 13 15:30 |
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| jose__ | best represents what you do | Feb 13 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | Carla became editor of some sites. She has been a lot more understanding than some others of the goals achieved by BN | Feb 13 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: monopolysoft sounds like some Macropolis-type name.. like Ubersoft. | Feb 13 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | :-) http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/200... | Feb 13 15:32 |
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| jose__ | monopolysoft contractor? | Feb 13 15:32 |
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| jose__ | :-) | Feb 13 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | Darl? | Feb 13 15:32 |
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| jose__ | uncle (lockness monster) pennybags | Feb 13 15:33 |
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| schestowitz | I don't get it: http://tirania.org./blog/archive/... | Feb 13 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | Nothing to do with de Icaza... €¿Is he pretending to have endorsement from Linus? | Feb 13 15:35 |
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| jose__ | roy, maybe after the five year contract is up, you can switch | Feb 13 15:37 |
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| jose__ | domainnames | Feb 13 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Novell contract (2006-jan2012)? | Feb 13 15:38 |
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| jose__ | that sounds plausible but i don't know details | Feb 13 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah... | Feb 13 15:40 |
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| jose__ | novell stands out for me because of their dedicated pushing of technologies that significantly favor microsoft.. the other things they do only confirm their worshipiness of the lockness monster | Feb 13 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | They keep spreading myths. | Feb 13 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | But they'll recite the 'consensus' that Microsoft is the bestest technology for the task. Microsoft has $4bn budget for marketing such imposed ignorance | Feb 13 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | And people like benJIman help propagate it | Feb 13 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft, internal document: "Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!" | Feb 13 15:41 |
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| jose__ | well in all respects that come to mind just about, novell works for ms | Feb 13 15:41 |
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| jose__ | so boycottnovell is not too much worse than boycottmonopolysoft | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | At behest of? | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| jose__ | it might even be better come to think of it | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | But what if Novell was absorbed like ATI? | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | There is a "Microsoft hater" label but not a "Novell hater" label | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| jose__ | a more professional name though would be useful for having serious conversations with those that wanted to be serious | Feb 13 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | Linux journalists know to beware of saying bad things about Microsoft or else the Enderles will label them "Microsoft haters" | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| jose__ | novell defenders either fear their jobs or something, have expectations for $$$, or are under nda.. or all three, etc, wrt talking negatively about microsoft | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | Then they become "rotten Apple" | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | It's like "unmaerican" or "commie" | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | There's increased daemonisation of unions too | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| jose__ | i have not had a genuine conversation, i suspect, with the people defending microsoft or novell.. at least with those that do it over and over | Feb 13 15:43 |
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| jose__ | of course, sometimes you do imagine that you did have a meaningful conversation | Feb 13 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | People who protest for peace.. you're supposed to hate them. The media tells you "they don't support the troops" | Feb 13 15:44 |
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| jose__ | i'd rather remember those moments. | Feb 13 15:44 |
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| jose__ | sniff sniff | Feb 13 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | Which..? | Feb 13 15:44 |
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| jose__ | which moments, people, or something else which | Feb 13 15:46 |
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| jose__ | fear of job makes a lot of sense | Feb 13 15:47 |
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| jose__ | ballmer is unforgiving that way | Feb 13 15:47 |
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| jose__ | that's how such organizations are run | Feb 13 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | Novell's press release is disturbing: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/... | Feb 13 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the headline. Novell is implying that only some touch of Microsoft codecs will "shed light" on desktop Linux | Feb 13 15:48 |
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| jose__ | more than yesterday's sam dean ad? | Feb 13 15:48 |
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| schestowitz | "THANK GOODNESS! Linux is saved by .NET and WMV!" | Feb 13 15:48 |
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| schestowitz | Mary Jo Foley covered this too | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| schestowitz | The Windows people LOVE it | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| jose__ | >> Novell's commitment to making Linux a first-class platform for multimedia and Rich Internet Applications. Moonlight provides the platform Linux users need to use Silverlight and Windows* Media content. | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| schestowitz | It makes Mirosoft stronger | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| jose__ | exactly | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| jose__ | about us being saved | Feb 13 15:49 |
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| twitter | Icaza has a sense of humor or at least appreciates Linus' | Feb 13 15:50 |
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| jose__ | >> "Microsoft Silverlight offers the most comprehensive and powerful solution for the creation and delivery of rich internet applications and media experiences, and is used by hundreds of thousands of developers worldwide," said Scott Guthrie, corporate vice president of the .NET Developer Division at Microsoft Corp. "We have worked with the Moonlight team and Novell to enable interoperability between Windows and Linux platforms and extend the high-qua | Feb 13 15:50 |
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| jose__ | lity interactive Web and video experience for the benefit of the Linux community." | Feb 13 15:50 |
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| schestowitz | Paul Krill wrote about this too | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| schestowitz | I betcha Microsoft is applying pressure to journalists to write about this | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| jose__ | are all of these people using silverlight because visstud got the plugins or something? | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| jose__ | money | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| schestowitz | "Come on," they say. "Write about this Linux thing. We love it at Microsoft Corp." | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| schestowitz | Peace and harmoney | Feb 13 15:51 |
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| schestowitz | Peace and harmony with OUR API | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | OUR patents | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | Our roadmap | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| jose__ | our linux distro | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | SUSE | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | MSUSE | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | MS USE | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | MS SUE | Feb 13 15:52 |
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| twitter | MiS USE | Feb 13 15:53 |
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| schestowitz | Novell cuts SUSE developers < http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/News/14a78... > | Feb 13 15:53 |
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| schestowitz | There's more coming though. It's a shame that they cut in this department | Feb 13 15:54 |
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| twitter | they need the money for astroturf. | Feb 13 15:54 |
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| schestowitz | But the boycott is aimed at preventing Novell from subverting Linux | Feb 13 15:54 |
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| schestowitz | I don't care about their Netware side | Feb 13 15:54 |
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| twitter | Funny how these "multimedia Linux" articles don't mention VLC or MythTV | Feb 13 15:55 |
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| jose__ | it's horrible when so much money and leverage is concentrated in such few hands. | Feb 13 15:55 |
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| twitter | WMV and Silverlight, wow. Where would free software be without second rate codecs. | Feb 13 15:55 |
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| jose__ | it only gets worse as that grows | Feb 13 15:55 |
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| jose__ | ms is slurping the proprie of all of these "parters" | Feb 13 15:56 |
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| schestowitz | Freudian? | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| jose__ | apparently with the blessing from major shareholders.. i'm thinking vmware for example | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| twitter | There have been a couple of setbacks, like Groklaw and Technocrat demise, but Boycott Novell and other success more than makes up for it. | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| schestowitz | Parters | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| twitter | Wedgi | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| twitter | parters | Feb 13 15:57 |
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| schestowitz | I deleted Technocrat from my list today because there's no chance of it coming back -- for now | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| schestowitz | WEDGi? | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| schestowitz | That's another name for EDGI | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| schestowitz | In one of the E-mails they call it that | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| twitter | Yes, WEDGI. It's funny how the fundi christians called their Intelligent Design attack on evolution the "Wedge" project too. | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| twitter | It's like the same bunch of nutbags doing both. | Feb 13 15:58 |
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| twitter | http://www.infidels.org/secula... | Feb 13 15:59 |
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| schestowitz | MOGara is still focusing on Novell stuff | Feb 13 16:00 |
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| schestowitz | It's like an attempt to boost their business. Never a word about Ubuntu from Maureen or anyone else in Sys-con.. | Feb 13 16:00 |
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| twitter | That's interesting. Ubuntu is larger than Suse isn't it? | Feb 13 16:01 |
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| twitter | If Sys-con were writing about what their readers rather than their advertisers cared about, they would write about Ubuntu. | Feb 13 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | 2008: Novell Ships Moonlight 1.0 < http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Applicati... > | Feb 13 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | What is going on there? | Feb 13 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | Is Novell re-announcing old s/w? | Feb 13 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | I was surprised by the press release actually because I thought it had already been released | Feb 13 16:03 |
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| jose__ | yeah, i noticed that | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| jose__ | and this one is dated feb 9 09 | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: in Sys-con it's about what pays them... they do conferences and stuff. SCO, Novell, Microsoft, cloud (lockin).... never anything to do with Freedom | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| jose__ | sorry.. feb 11 | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | So what's the explanation? | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | What's the news? | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| jose__ | it's an ad | Feb 13 16:04 |
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| jose__ | running old ads is fine | Feb 13 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | The comments in Linux Today are good: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php... | Feb 13 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | \Raise an issue with Moonlight in LXer and you'll be attacked by the vocal hounds | Feb 13 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: really? Just old news? | Feb 13 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | The press release is basically no news: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news... | Feb 13 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | It's just a bunch of old news packaged up to fool reporters and pressure users to install this poison | Feb 13 16:08 |
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| *[H]omer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Feb 13 16:09 |
| jose__ | it's an ad | Feb 13 16:12 |
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| jose__ | ads are repeated so that users have many opportunities | Feb 13 16:12 |
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| jose__ | btw, i'm just trying to put a label on the ad | Feb 13 16:13 |
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| jose__ | we all advertize | Feb 13 16:13 |
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| jose__ | repeatedly | Feb 13 16:13 |
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| jose__ | i know i do | Feb 13 16:13 |
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| jose__ | (sorry folks) | Feb 13 16:13 |
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| jose__ | Roy, certainly from reading over the intros to each of those artibles spaced some 9 months appart. they each appear to be introducing the same product | Feb 13 16:15 |
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| jose__ | nevermind | Feb 13 16:15 |
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| jose__ | the difference is that in the first case they claim to support silverlight 1.0 | Feb 13 16:16 |
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| jose__ | in the second case, they are releasing moonlight 1.0 | Feb 13 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | "No financial details were disclosed". Huh??? http://linux.sys-con.com/node/840669 | Feb 13 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | It's always there to suggest that money is paid to Microsoft for Moonlight | Feb 13 16:16 |
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| jose__ | moon-0.6.tar.bz2 is presumably version 0.6 of moonlight | Feb 13 16:16 |
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| jose__ | 20,000 of many millions is not too much [<2%] | Feb 13 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Watch Novell employees boosting Moonlight in OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/thread?348477 | Feb 13 16:19 |
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| jose__ | drop last comment.. i thought they were talking about silverlight. in any case, silverlight gets installed if ms wants and if you run windows | Feb 13 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 13 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the Novellers... | Feb 13 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | They don't work for Novell much.. | Feb 13 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | They just leave comments in Web sites | Feb 13 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | So much for productivity | Feb 13 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | They try to tell it so that Microsoft carries on felling Novell (i.e. pays their wages) | Feb 13 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | *fuelling | Feb 13 16:22 |
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| jose__ | roy, the group that posts comments don't have to overlap with those writing code | Feb 13 16:24 |
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| jose__ | a comment | Feb 13 16:25 |
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| jose__ | >> To get an idea of the cost of these codecs, you can look at Fluendo's own codec pack, that goes for 28 euros per machine. It seems reasonable that Microsoft would choose to only distribute the codecs that they have licensed from MPEGLA and Fraunhofer for use in Moonlight and not to solve Linux's media problems for us. | Feb 13 16:25 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: that would serve Microsoft, yeah... | Feb 13 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | Anything that make Linux more expensive is good for them | Feb 13 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | Mark Shuttleworth made this point 2 years ago. The cost must stay $0 | Feb 13 16:34 |
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| jose__ | superconductivity | Feb 13 16:35 |
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| jose__ | you get a lot more bang for buck of energy | Feb 13 16:35 |
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| jose__ | don't know if that was a good analogy | Feb 13 16:35 |
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| jose__ | but point is that even the smallest cost | Feb 13 16:35 |
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| jose__ | will become a real impediment | Feb 13 16:35 |
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| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Feb 13 16:35 |
| jose__ | that last comment.... | Feb 13 16:36 |
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| jose__ | leveraging ms gunk | Feb 13 16:36 |
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| jose__ | to take over linux | Feb 13 16:36 |
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| jose__ | now ms claims they will deal with anyone | Feb 13 16:36 |
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| *Casperin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Feb 13 16:36 |
| jose__ | but under what terms | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | their old game is to favor | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | as they take over a market | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | kind of like ie gets favored treatment over all other browsers | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | the law is too slow | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | that's why i like BN | Feb 13 16:37 |
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| jose__ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-c... | Feb 13 16:39 |
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| jose__ | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/06/ron-h... | Feb 13 16:40 |
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| jose__ | Let's see, ms attempts to branch out into every industry. | Feb 13 16:43 |
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| jose__ | they spread their old execs | Feb 13 16:43 |
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| jose__ | a primary company is chosen to manage region X | Feb 13 16:44 |
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| jose__ | the other companies are drained of their goods | Feb 13 16:44 |
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| jose__ | sounds like a plan | Feb 13 16:44 |
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| jose__ | and all along, you have the B$M Foundry to smile for the cameras and have people feel warm and fuzzy | Feb 13 16:45 |
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| jose__ | now, let's go out and schmooze troops!!! | Feb 13 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that's how it goes | Feb 13 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | That's why you have to check people's history. | Feb 13 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft turned enemy Novell into an ally after Ray Noorda had passed away | Feb 13 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | As one reader put it, "Join us or die" | Feb 13 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft even tried to do market division with Netscape | Feb 13 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | IOW, Microsoft tried to turn competition into a part of Microsoft's ecosystem. | Feb 13 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | It is often stressed that Microsoft is like communism and this is just why | Feb 13 16:51 |
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| jose__ | roy, after a handful of bug reports on mono that get closed immediately without conversation, etc, maybe bn can do a piece on it. | Feb 13 16:52 |
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| jose__ | save the links and then we have to make sure the bug reports are reasonable | Feb 13 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | I think we gave examples of Ubuntu ones | Feb 13 16:52 |
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| jose__ | devs may want to avoid "politics" | Feb 13 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | Unless you have a good list of many examples | Feb 13 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Besides, it can be used against us. | Feb 13 16:53 |
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| jose__ | personally, speaking as a dev and user, i think the patent-api issue is convincing | Feb 13 16:53 |
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| jose__ | you may not like patents, but to take what is known to be a real risk is not very acceptable | Feb 13 16:53 |
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| jose__ | at least if you accually value FOSS and the licenses these projects tend to include | Feb 13 16:54 |
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| jose__ | actually not accually | Feb 13 16:54 |
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| jose__ | (i mentioned that typo because i tend to make it so want to stop) | Feb 13 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | S3 Graphics Still Talks Up Linux Support, But Fails < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=... > | Feb 13 16:54 |
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| jose__ | commercial interests benefiting from encumbered foss might do well to have developers on staff for just such an occasion | Feb 13 16:55 |
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