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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 17th, 2009 - Part 2


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balzacI'd like to see Ubuntu get more competetiveFeb 17 15:39
PetoKraushahFeb 17 15:40
PetoKrauscompetetive with what?Feb 17 15:40
balzacRedhat is all well and good, but it's not like I can really invest a great deal of ego in the brand.Feb 17 15:40
balzacRedhatFeb 17 15:40
zer0c00ltoday i got access to one of the windows server for installing wamp..."when i tried to open a video  a player called "nero show time came up" and asked me some thing like "Patent activation required" when click refused to play the file for me... :( then i opened it with vlc player...Feb 17 15:40
zer0c00lis it DRM ?Feb 17 15:41
zer0c00lor some thing?Feb 17 15:41
zer0c00l"nero show time"Feb 17 15:41
schestowitzTry with kaffeineFeb 17 15:42
schestowitzIt opens everything I throw at itFeb 17 15:42
zer0c00lschestowitz: thats windoze server .. i took remote desktop to install wampFeb 17 15:42
zer0c00lyeahFeb 17 15:42
zer0c00lbut its the first time: i am being restricted by patentsFeb 17 15:43
zer0c00l"Patent activation required"Feb 17 15:43
zer0c00l:(Feb 17 15:43
zer0c00lclick here to download activationFeb 17 15:43
zer0c00lthats vagueFeb 17 15:43
zer0c00ldo you want the screen shot ?Feb 17 15:44
*zer0c00l has offered Screenshot.png (205225 bytes)Feb 17 15:44
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 17 15:45
zer0c00l"well patents are used for getting royalties i guess"Feb 17 15:46
zer0c00lthey trying to get money from me for using their codec ?Feb 17 15:46
schestowitzI didn't get the fileFeb 17 15:46
zer0c00li have just started the transferFeb 17 15:47
zer0c00lits still waitingFeb 17 15:47
schestowitzCodecs should be like WWW.. patent-free... that's what Ogg is forFeb 17 15:47
zer0c00lwill send it by mailFeb 17 15:47
schestowitzFF 3.1 will make Ogg widely supported, so then we need to pressure broadcaster to bury anything but ogg.Feb 17 15:47
PetoKrauswellFeb 17 15:47
PetoKrausthat's a broad statementFeb 17 15:48
PetoKrausi'd like to bury flash and silverlightFeb 17 15:48
*DCC RECV connect attempt to zer0c00l failed (err=Connection timed out).Feb 17 15:48
PetoKrausbut i don't really feel any fear from mp3Feb 17 15:48
PetoKrausi mean, i'm in europe, right?Feb 17 15:48
PetoKrausthe patents do not apply here, right?Feb 17 15:48
schestowitzJust implementation (copyrights)Feb 17 15:49
schestowitzThey give you a file and say "no matter how you decode it -- even with own algo -- you must pay us"Feb 17 15:49
balzacRedHat should kick down $50,000,000 to GNU and the FSF and call it RedHat GNU/LinuxFeb 17 15:49
schestowitzThen they spread those files all over the world to cage you.Feb 17 15:49
PetoKrausbalzac: ?Feb 17 15:50
balzacmake a deal with Solaris and offer RedHat GNU/Solaris as wellFeb 17 15:50
balzacand market GNU solutionsFeb 17 15:50
PetoKraushow would it help?Feb 17 15:50
schestowitzTo whom?Feb 17 15:50
schestowitzInve$$$ors?Feb 17 15:50
schestowitzFreedom?Feb 17 15:50
schestowitzPeople?Feb 17 15:50
balzacwell, the FSF and GNU would have a hard time trying to spend all that, so they could just sit on it.Feb 17 15:50
schestowitzNewKKKons?Feb 17 15:50
PetoKrausto anyoneFeb 17 15:50
balzacIt's just chump change to a multi-billion dollar companyFeb 17 15:51
balzacGNU could invest it in HURD developmentFeb 17 15:51
balzachardware compatibility for the HURDFeb 17 15:51
schestowitzRHT already invests in LinuxFeb 17 15:51
schestowitzA lotFeb 17 15:51
balzacRedHat is just another company run by share-holders, greedy executives and PR hacks.Feb 17 15:51
schestowitzYesFeb 17 15:51
balzacLinux you saidFeb 17 15:51
balzacI'm talking about GNUFeb 17 15:51
schestowitzSameFeb 17 15:51
schestowitzIntel, H-P, IBM..Feb 17 15:52
balzacnot reallyFeb 17 15:52
PetoKrausyeah, not reallyFeb 17 15:52
schestowitz*Same refers to LinuxFeb 17 15:52
PetoKrausI'd like to see GNU/HurdFeb 17 15:52
balzacI want to see GNU/Hurd reach an advanced stage of developmentFeb 17 15:52
PetoKraus:DFeb 17 15:52
schestowitzThe log sequences is deceivingFeb 17 15:52
balzacThe problem is, the Linux faction has been working hard to marginalize GNU and the FSFFeb 17 15:53
balzacRedhat has definitely been in the "open source" faction, not the "free software" community.Feb 17 15:54
balzacFor those reasons, i don't think I want an RHCE cert.Feb 17 15:54
balzacTo me, it would be almost like wearing a McDonalds hat.Feb 17 15:55
balzacLet them show their appreciation for the head-waters of their prosperityFeb 17 15:55
balzacproportional to how much they've gainedFeb 17 15:55
balzacI'm not talking about Linux, I'm talking about GNU and the FSFFeb 17 15:55
MinceRdo we even need certs?Feb 17 15:56
balzacthey do help an employer to assess your level of technical competenceFeb 17 15:56
schestowitz""Half of the charges made against the four men behind the notorious file-sharing website The Pirate Bay have been sensationally dropped on day two of the trial" :-D 17 15:56
balzacand familiarity with specific softwareFeb 17 15:56
MinceRit is unlikely to match the set of competence/software the employer really needsFeb 17 15:57
schestowitzThey still try to fight the Web, no matter what actually constitutes infringement (not port/protocols)Feb 17 15:57
schestowitzbalzac: look who's at Red HatFeb 17 15:57
schestowitzMichael TiemannFeb 17 15:57
schestowitzOpen Source Initiative President..Feb 17 15:57
balzacyeahFeb 17 15:57
schestowitzKDE has become more Free software orientedFeb 17 15:58
schestowitzEsp. after some issues like OOXML corruptions from Microsoft and OSI TojanismFeb 17 15:58
balzacThe OSI is a vestigial organFeb 17 15:58
balzacI don't pay them any attentionFeb 17 15:58
schestowitzWell, don't toss itFeb 17 15:58
schestowitzRemember they are still on your sideFeb 17 15:59
balzacthey really arentFeb 17 15:59
schestowitzSame with Apple tools like AsayFeb 17 15:59
balzacthey're just thereFeb 17 15:59
schestowitzDon't knock those who help the cause in different ways or different levels.Feb 17 15:59
schestowitzThat would just make us more dividedFeb 17 15:59
balzacdivision is goodFeb 17 15:59
schestowitzMicrosoft's Orwell-inspired approach of ruining our vocabulary (e.g. shared source, ms-pl) should be rejectedFeb 17 16:00
schestowitzBut no infighting where it is not a lost cause (e.g. Novell0Feb 17 16:00
schestowitzDivision is bad, it's not goodFeb 17 16:00
schestowitzThat's how unions are brokenFeb 17 16:00
balzacit's not in-fighting if the people aren't sharing your ideologyFeb 17 16:00
schestowitzThat's how authorities (software ones too) keep people stupid and helpless/hopelessFeb 17 16:00
schestowitzbalzac: no two minds intersectFeb 17 16:01
balzacopen source is not free software and doesn't concern its self with computer users' freedom in generalFeb 17 16:01
schestowitzSee, not everyone agrees with you on RHTFeb 17 16:01
schestowitzSo you reconcile some thingsFeb 17 16:01
schestowitzOur real issue is people who sabotage, bribe, and balackmail as a business modelFeb 17 16:01
balzaci'll advocate their software over novellFeb 17 16:01
balzacbut when ubuntu comes of age, perhaps I won't be pushing redhat for the enterprise.Feb 17 16:02
schestowitzcentos?Feb 17 16:03
schestowitzRed Hat used a lot of volunteer time, so using its clones is no sin.Feb 17 16:04
balzacI'm having good luck with Ubuntu.Feb 17 16:04
balzacblag is the most interesting, I thinkFeb 17 16:04
balzacI'm happy about the de-blobber script which was developed by blag and is also used by gnewsenseFeb 17 16:04
balzacbut it's sad that this junk goes into the software upstream and then it needs to be cleaned up by downstream distros, as an after-thought.Feb 17 16:05
schestowitzOr the oppositeFeb 17 16:05
schestowitzE.g. MintFeb 17 16:05
schestowitzSpread Ogg, fight .NET/Mono (to help GPL Java)....Feb 17 16:06
balzacand fight flash tooFeb 17 16:06
balzacRoy, have you read Saul Alinsky?Feb 17 16:07
schestowitzJournalism Isn't Dead: More Journalism Projects Getting Funded < >Feb 17 16:08
schestowitzI haven't, no..Feb 17 16:09
schestowitzIf only we could get support from ibiblio or something...Feb 17 16:09
schestowitzNever tried....Feb 17 16:09
balzacthe reason I ask is because people tend to bring his name up when discussing coalition buildingFeb 17 16:09
balzacI haven't personally read his booksFeb 17 16:09
balzacI'm a bit more inclined toward demagoguery than coalition buildingFeb 17 16:09
balzacIf I can make anyone squirm at Redhat, Google, or any other company which depends heavily on GNU/Linux about how small the annual budget of the FSF is, I'm ok with being viewed as un-diplomatic.Feb 17 16:12
schestowitzBerman like...?Feb 17 16:15
schestowitz 17 16:16
schestowitzI mean, wrt coalition.Feb 17 16:16
balzacwell, I'm forthright about it. Berman is a puppeteer.Feb 17 16:16
schestowitzGoogle invests in code (GSOC), not philosophy and recovery from society's illsFeb 17 16:17
schestowitzGoogle is run by suits in Connecticut or whatever. The question to be asked it always, "how can we turn it to profit?"Feb 17 16:17
balzacyeah, but money is more liquid than GSOC grantsFeb 17 16:18
schestowitzIf there is a PR opportunity and the cameras are on, that too can be profitable.Feb 17 16:18
balzacgoogle's people oversee the GSOC projectsFeb 17 16:18
schestowitzCompanies never take account of factors like environment, rights, employee welfare, etc.Feb 17 16:19
balzacI want to see money $$$ from Google et al >> GNU & FSFFeb 17 16:19
schestowitzThat's a deficiency introduced long ago when corporations were handled as though they were individuals without accountability for anything.Feb 17 16:19
balzacthey need to pay tribute to the GNU-FatherFeb 17 16:19
schestowitz.You mean, the Holy Linus?Feb 17 16:19
balzacI mean RMSFeb 17 16:20
balzacI want to see GNU/HURD usher in the era of mainstream LISPFeb 17 16:20
schestowitzShills army: 17 16:21
balzac 17 16:21
schestowitzIt's truly disgusting how this country is run. In a proper society, some of these people would be behind barsFeb 17 16:22
balzacor at least sued into poverty for libel and slanderFeb 17 16:22
balzacand fraudFeb 17 16:22
balzacsued and fined, I meanFeb 17 16:22
schestowitzGoogle F*ING shills now.Feb 17 16:23
schestowitz "Google Japan hired a Japanese company called Cyberbuzz, who paid bloggers as much as $100 to write about a new search widget. This was a clear violation of Google’s rules, which Google has aggressively and publicly enforced over the past couple of years, much to many directory operators’ chagrins. "Feb 17 16:23
schestowitzDisgusting!Feb 17 16:23
schestowitzbalzac: these people libel activists and volunteers tooFeb 17 16:25
schestowitzThey deserve jail or something worse. These are criminals.Feb 17 16:25
balzacit's an industry euphemistically called "reputation management". It's like Chomsky's "manufacturing consent" and the other PR-industry euphamism "perception management".Feb 17 16:26
balzacexcept that "reputation management" is likely to involve trench warfare on message boards and irc chat rooms involving repetetive personal attacks.Feb 17 16:26
schestowitzCriminals Using Skype, Say Italian Police <  >. Criminals also eat at restaurants, go out to nightclubs and use the urinals.Feb 17 16:29
balzacno kiddingFeb 17 16:30
balzaccriminals caught nourishing themselves with the aid of utensils, forks and spoons to be outlawed.Feb 17 16:30
schestowitzYes, the whole PR society is highly unethicalFeb 17 16:30
schestowitzEntire countries are run on spin advertising, nowadays just known as "spin"Feb 17 16:30
*schestowitz must be careful of surveillance inside burritos. Feb 17 16:31
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balzacThe most brazen are the ones who come out and attack someone decent in a vile way at an inappropriate timeFeb 17 16:36
balzacGlenn Beck attacks katrina victims while they're homelessFeb 17 16:36
schestowitzWho's that?Feb 17 16:36
balzacLimbaugh attacks Michael J Fox, mocking his neuro-degenerative disorderFeb 17 16:36
schestowitzKatrina was an 'inside job' ;-)Feb 17 16:37
balzacA blood-drinking, goose-stepping, cannibal swine who has his own show on CNNFeb 17 16:37
balzacBush de-funded the Army Corps of EngineersFeb 17 16:37
schestowitzOh..Feb 17 16:37
balzacThen neglected the victimsFeb 17 16:37
joseschestowitz, wanted to let you know that Sam Dean's piece has not accepted comments from me in a couple of days (before the last batch of comments appeared).Feb 17 16:37
schestowitzKind of like the O'Reilly neocon then, eh?Feb 17 16:37
schestowitzWho attacks people before he even give them a chance to talk.Feb 17 16:38
balzacGlenn Beck recently "tearfully" praised 9/11 widows, whom he had also attacked on behalf of Bush.Feb 17 16:38
balzacThese guys are even more brazen and offensive than Bill O'ReillyFeb 17 16:38
schestowitzjose: he lost some of mine tooFeb 17 16:38
joseI don't know much about S Dean, but these last few articles have been Novell advertisements.Feb 17 16:38
schestowitzThey seem to be cnesoringFeb 17 16:38
schestowitzLet me show you..Feb 17 16:38
schestowitzYes, OStatic employs Novell's ZonkerFeb 17 16:39
joseIf you post a reply, I want to make sure to post what was rejected..Feb 17 16:39
balzacLimbaugh and Beck got contracts for like $100M and $50M respectivelyFeb 17 16:39
schestowitz 17 16:39
schestowitz"Over at OStatic, Sam Dean went on and deleted (censored) a polite and informative comment from me, which was about 30-40 lines in length. It explained what Novell was doing with Go-OO[XML]."Feb 17 16:39
balzacit pays handsomely to tap-dance down the thin line between right-wing Republican and plain old NaziFeb 17 16:40
schestowitzjose: send it overFeb 17 16:40
schestowitzAlso post in another thread to ask why they censor it. Don't let them get away with it..Feb 17 16:40
schestowitzLet me show you a vid....Feb 17 16:40
joseThanksFeb 17 16:41
schestowitzWatch this: 17 16:41
josei'll post there and can always repost or link later if a better thread comes upFeb 17 16:41
schestowitzHere he is also attacking Ron Paul for saying the truth: 17 16:41
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schestowitzMore 'convergence' (bad): Toshiba to Acquire Fujitsu's Hard-disk Drive Business < >Feb 17 16:43
josefwiw, roy, it's also possible that they simply don't want a person (eg, myself) to take over the conversation.Feb 17 16:45
schestowitzHey, you know what Ive just realised...?Feb 17 16:45
schestowitzBN is doing more traffic than Tuxmahines now, based on some criteria: 17 16:45
schestowitzThis is not a WIndows problem, for a change: Nuclear weapons lab loses 67 computers < >Feb 17 16:46
balzachow the F*** does that happen?Feb 17 16:47
schestowitzjose: maybe it was an accident. Better to check. The one that I flagged in BN is a comment that did appear and got deleted much laterFeb 17 16:47
schestowitzA Novell employee has mod privileges in OStatic.Feb 17 16:47
joseGreat.Feb 17 16:47
schestowitzbalzac: you come in one day and "whoa! They're all gone"Feb 17 16:48
joseIf you want, do a blog, and I'll copy over the comments that might be deleted in the future.Feb 17 16:48
balzacthey should have spent some of that "Homeland Security" budget to secure that nuclear weapons lab.Feb 17 16:48
balzacit reminds me of those two recent coal ash spillsFeb 17 16:48
balzacone right after the otherFeb 17 16:48
schestowitzThey have a lot of PR to give illusion securityFeb 17 16:49
balzacI can't believe these things are just happeningFeb 17 16:49
schestowitzLike, you know... 100 armed guards with machines guns and equipment that they claimed costs them GAZIl$@#ON dollars.Feb 17 16:49
balzacthey're being allowed to happen, as the levees were allowed to fall into disrepair, the bridge in minnesota, the lack of attention to national securityFeb 17 16:49
schestowitzThen, someone just walks in through some back doors and they pretend that "it couldn't have happened.. some guard must have messed up.... the SystemWasDown(R)..."Feb 17 16:50
balzacRepublican leaders just hate America and want it to fail as a whole.Feb 17 16:50
schestowitzThey love themselvesFeb 17 16:50
schestowitzThey loot the nationFeb 17 16:50
balzacthen they trot out that classic line "nobody could have forseen it"Feb 17 16:50
schestowitzYesFeb 17 16:50
schestowitzSchneier has excellent blog posts about such incidentsFeb 17 16:51
balzaccue Condoleeza riceFeb 17 16:51
schestowitzLet me E-mail this one to himFeb 17 16:51
balzacprobably an America-hating Republican congressman arranged for those 67 nuclear weapons lab computers to be shipped to Pakistan.Feb 17 16:52
schestowitzMailedFeb 17 16:52
schestowitzHe usually replies too whenever you mail him.Feb 17 16:52
balzacanyway, I should keep general politics out of the discussionFeb 17 16:53
schestowitzbalzac: no, too far fetchedFeb 17 16:53
balzacit's a dragFeb 17 16:53
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schestowitzGlobal warming is an 'inside job'Feb 17 16:53
schestowitzLanding on the moon was done in Mars ;-)Feb 17 16:53
balzacI'm just besmirching the Republican identity because I despise those swine Republicans in congress and the last administrationFeb 17 16:53
balzacThey hate our freedom.Feb 17 16:53
schestowitzbalzac: they are still in powerFeb 17 16:54
schestowitzSame companies...Feb 17 16:54
balzacI call it "Bush's undead talking points" when i throw their own propaganda back in their faces.Feb 17 16:54
schestowitzDifferent faction (Democrats) of the same eternal party..Feb 17 16:54
balzac"There are those among us who believe that by ignoring the threat of Republicans, America will be safe. America will never be safe so long as anywhere in the world, Republicans are given succor and safe-harbor."Feb 17 16:55
schestowitzIf you want to pursue oil and production for your friends, then you must keep the people 'under control' and by lying (spinning) is the only optionFeb 17 16:55
schestowitzRepublicans and Democrats are similar in their stance on issuesFeb 17 16:55
balzacsureFeb 17 16:55
schestowitzJust watch Obama defending a lot of the recent atrocities since he's entered HouseFeb 17 16:56
balzacI call most of the democrats masochists who lick the jack-boots of the Republicans who are standing on their necksFeb 17 16:56
schestowitzIf he speaks out, then he'll go 'the way of the Ron Paul'Feb 17 16:56
balzacwell, Obama's got the artillery on the hill now, so it's a bit differentFeb 17 16:56
schestowitzOr JFK..Feb 17 16:56
balzacI'm referring to the Democratic congress under BushFeb 17 16:56
schestowitzIf you want change, -support- fund NaderFeb 17 16:57
balzacGive Nader some steroids and it might workFeb 17 16:57
schestowitzHalliburton won't fund Nader. Mewonders why.. :-)Feb 17 16:57
schestowitzNot enoughFeb 17 16:57
schestowitzNader and steroids won't do itFeb 17 16:57
schestowitzPeople vote for people on steroids and/or from HollywoodFeb 17 16:57
balzacI'm not worrying about national politics much any moreFeb 17 16:58
schestowitzCase of point are some of the biggest disasters: Reagan and Schwarzenegger Feb 17 16:58
schestowitzSchwarzenegger luuuuuuuuuvs BushFeb 17 16:58
balzacHerr GropenfurerFeb 17 16:58
schestowitz:-0Feb 17 16:58
balzacyou can see a photo of Ahnold in the austrian alps popping the saluteFeb 17 16:59
balzache claims it was just a body builder pose, but as an Austrian, he knew betterFeb 17 16:59
schestowitzLet's see...Feb 17 16:59
balzacHe helped subvert Gray Davis and create the budget crisis in CaliforniaFeb 17 16:59
schestowitzGot the picFeb 17 16:59
schestowitz?Feb 17 16:59
balzache worked with Ken Lay of enronFeb 17 17:00
balzacnah, but you can easily find itFeb 17 17:00
balzacNobody busts his chops about it nowadays, but I just can't imagine an Austrian wouldn't know better than to do that pose.Feb 17 17:00
schestowitz 17 17:00
schestowitzCA is doing badly I hearFeb 17 17:01
schestowitzSome guy in the gym here came from there a couple of months ago. He said it had gone horrible (financially and all).Feb 17 17:01
balzacThey took Schwarzenneggar's name off a stadium in Graz after he executed Tookie WilliamsFeb 17 17:01
balzacAhnold wants to be president some dayFeb 17 17:02
balzacMolly Ivins said he looks like a condom filled with walnutsFeb 17 17:03
schestowitzCan he?Feb 17 17:03
schestowitzNot born in the USFeb 17 17:03
balzacif he can amend the constitutionFeb 17 17:03
balzache'll keep trying until senility ends his ambitionsFeb 17 17:03
schestowitzSounds like MS con jobFeb 17 17:03
schestowitzChange the rules, then ruleFeb 17 17:03
schestowitzThey try this in the EUFeb 17 17:03
schestowitzbalzac: no worries about senility, he can buy a new brain, too.Feb 17 17:04
schestowitzZe Terminator..Feb 17 17:04
schestowitzIt never dies... not even when it melts.Feb 17 17:04
balzacthey'll just wire a little micro-controller into his motor cortextFeb 17 17:04
balzachis brain will be just filled with cerebro-spinal fluid and Rove's disembodied brain, floating in a secure location will be speaking through ahnolds zombie.Feb 17 17:05
balzacok, that's enough politics for meFeb 17 17:06
balzacI need to keep focused on business and forget about the circus of national politicsFeb 17 17:06
schestowitzAustralia government limited Google's bushfire map < >Feb 17 17:07
schestowitzNeed open maps...Feb 17 17:07
schestowitz ( The OSI was hijacked)Feb 17 17:10
balzacBruce Perens couldn't get electedFeb 17 17:11
balzacHe was the most reasonable guy involved, and the most visionaryFeb 17 17:12
schestowitz Novell openSUSE: Development Ebbing? < >Feb 17 17:12
schestowitzbalzac: yes, I know. OSI was hijackedFeb 17 17:12
balzacThe OSI is irrelevant to those whose concern is computer users' freedom.Feb 17 17:12
balzacBruce Perens was tossed for saying [paraphrasing] "It's time to start saying free software again. Notice I didn't say open source."Feb 17 17:13
schestowitzOpenSUSE has been quiet for 2 weeksFeb 17 17:13
schestowitzAfter those layoffsFeb 17 17:13
balzacsweetFeb 17 17:13
schestowitzI think Novell (Waltham) is shafting the GermansFeb 17 17:13
schestowitz"It's the investors.."Feb 17 17:14
balzacHopefully OpenSUSE will wither away, Novell will tank, and Redhat will make a course-correction.Feb 17 17:14
schestowitzMicrosoft gainsFeb 17 17:14
schestowitzThey ruin their rivals like thisFeb 17 17:14
schestowitzBut there's no choice other than to NOT. Sell. OUT.Feb 17 17:15
balzaci don't want a card-board coalitionFeb 17 17:15
balzacsell GNUFeb 17 17:15
schestowitzIt's like in the Evangelism is War memoFeb 17 17:15
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to knock BSD against Linux/GPL or whatever...Feb 17 17:15
balzacsell 100% free software consulting and supportFeb 17 17:15
schestowitzPeople need to point out what they doFeb 17 17:15
schestowitzSome people have cited BN's exposition of these MS docsFeb 17 17:16
schestowitzSo it become common knowledgeFeb 17 17:16
balzacI'm just trying to get in position to grab gloryFeb 17 17:16
schestowitzI see people talking about Microsoft's anti-Linux "taskfforces" (that the Wal-Mart story) and anti-Dell deals.Feb 17 17:16
balzacI'm thinking as an enterpreneur, not just an activist.Feb 17 17:16
balzacRoy, you'd be a good executive for a software company, because what we need now are people with attitude like Scott McnealyFeb 17 17:17
balzacthese dipomatic guys do no favors for the companies they lead by cooperating with M$Feb 17 17:17
schestowitzI don't do businessFeb 17 17:17
joseGreyGeeks reply is missing something..Feb 17 17:18
balzacRedhat made a mistake with the M$ deal.Feb 17 17:18
josei don't disagree..Feb 17 17:18
josebut besides the license.. it's the licensorFeb 17 17:18
schestowitzI did when I was younger, but it's when white-collar crimes and marketing scum enters the zoneFeb 17 17:18
joseas well as the group that owns the copyrights to the licenseFeb 17 17:18
schestowitzI'd rather expose the white-collar criminalsFeb 17 17:18
joseeg, an ms license like the gpl will be interpreted differently by msFeb 17 17:18
schestowitzFor example, showing how one criminal connects to people like Tucci who throw out scientists like GreeneFeb 17 17:19
balzachopefully you'll learn from Nader's mistake and not spend your prime years as an activistFeb 17 17:19
schestowitzThe lawyers who run nations ruin science tooFeb 17 17:19
joseand they would likely try to play the version x or higher trick so that later versions of the license are different in spiritFeb 17 17:19
joseyes, bait and switchFeb 17 17:19
balzacit makes for a grumpy and uncomfortable retirementFeb 17 17:19
balzacNader should have shifted gears into the private sector after about three decades of serviceFeb 17 17:19
schestowitzYou can say the same about RMSFeb 17 17:19
balzache did great for a long timeFeb 17 17:19
schestowitzWhat do you measure things by? What's the yardstick?Feb 17 17:20
balzacwell, both of them should be less grumpy and renunciating of comfortFeb 17 17:20
balzacboth should fly first class, not coachFeb 17 17:20
josedon't worry about coachFeb 17 17:20
schestowitzNader lies coach?Feb 17 17:20
balzaci don't knowFeb 17 17:20
schestowitz*fliesFeb 17 17:20
josesome people like to feel close to the other people and ordinary to some degreeFeb 17 17:20
schestowitzbalzac thinks that flying first class is a life's goalFeb 17 17:21
schestowitzI disagreeFeb 17 17:21
schestowitzThat's PRFeb 17 17:21
balzacHugh Hefner is the Supreme Ayatollah of lifestyle for an old man.Feb 17 17:21
schestowitzThat's imposed BSFeb 17 17:21
joseevery now and then maybeFeb 17 17:21
schestowitzLike the way people are sold lots of illusiusionsFeb 17 17:21
schestowitzThey are practically being told what they /need/ to enjoyFeb 17 17:21
balzacYou don't have to be quite such a renunciate as many activists tend to be.Feb 17 17:22
schestowitzThey /tell/ people what it means to DoWell{tm}Feb 17 17:22
schestowitzAnd it's hard to escape this framework of mindsetFeb 17 17:22
josebalzac, don't overestimate nader and other "names"Feb 17 17:22
schestowitzIn 1992, one trillion dollars were spend on marketingFeb 17 17:22
schestowitzit's everywhere.Feb 17 17:22
schestowitzLots of it is viral or peer-imposedFeb 17 17:22
josemany people join along to help.. and some of those enter/thrive the private sectorFeb 17 17:22
balzacMy activist years are behind me.Feb 17 17:23
balzacI'll dabble in the future, but now it's all about building a business.Feb 17 17:24
schestowitzGood!Feb 17 17:24
schestowitzPeople listen: 17 17:24
josesee balzac.. it would stink if people thought only rms did anything.. but balzac didn't contribute as well... so leave rms and simply do your thingFeb 17 17:25
joselet me rephraseFeb 17 17:25
joseit would stink if people thought only rms did anything.. but balzac does contribute as well.Feb 17 17:25
joseamong all the drummers drumming and marching.. you get those that stand out the mostFeb 17 17:26
balzacRichard and I will probably discuss the topic again over dinner sometime.Feb 17 17:26
josethose get the spotlight, but there is a whole spectrumFeb 17 17:26
josewe all help each other and are helped in returnFeb 17 17:26
jose:-)Feb 17 17:27
schestowitz "The VAR Guy, Sources tell me that Novell will lay off massively this week or next week. I stand by my claim that Novell operates at a loss that would require laying off almost 1000 people (25% of workforce), which I hear is likely to be the real number."Feb 17 17:28
schestowitzjose: well said.Feb 17 17:29
joseI see you continue to feel strongly about that 1000 number (give or take a factor of 2).Feb 17 17:31
josei wonder how such an announcement would be put forwardFeb 17 17:31
josei wonder if there is some "surprise" event coming soon.Feb 17 17:32
josewho could have forseen it?Feb 17 17:32
schestowitzLet me check..Feb 17 17:32
schestowitzSee PMFeb 17 17:32
schestowitzno reply neededFeb 17 17:32
jose?Feb 17 17:33
schestowitz 17 17:35
schestowitz"Feb 17 17:35
schestowitzMicrosoft has a consistent history of biting its partners and draining their blood. No agreement with Microsoft, regardless of how seemingly innocuous, will benefit anyone but Microsoft. Even if we can't pinpoint exactly where and when the betrayal will occur, we can safely bet the farm that it will happen."Feb 17 17:35
joseMicrosoft may be trying to keep the netbook dam from breaking. Dams that will break.. will break. Let's hopeFeb 17 17:35
schestowitzThe one breaking is MSFeb 17 17:36
schestowitzNo marginsFeb 17 17:37
schestowitzre layoffs,  the private source is a novell employeeFeb 17 17:37
schestowitzUnless Novell tries poisoning Novell with false infoFeb 17 17:37
schestowitzCool. Journo looks for my comment now.Feb 17 17:39
joseI wish people would leave voluntarily instead of being kicked out.. but it can be very difficult.. especially if the economic environment is scary.. i wonder how much a current layed-off employee is likely to have saved? Don't know what cost of living are near novellFeb 17 17:42
schestowitzYeah...Feb 17 18:08
schestowitzOK, one last pass..Feb 17 18:18
schestowitzSo BN will make the press again :-DFeb 17 18:28
joseYou met another deadline?Feb 17 18:28
schestowitzNo, no deadline. I just replies straight awayFeb 17 18:31
schestowitzIf you don't reply fast, you can miss the chance.Feb 17 18:32
schestowitzWhich happened before (I used to check mail once in a few days)Feb 17 18:32
schestowitz Green burials: A dying wish to be 'home for fish' < >. I think MinceR might have something to say about it because of some Ubuntu story I brought up last month.Feb 17 18:33
schestowitzThis really seems like blasphemy I imagine to people who believe in  things like Hell, Heaven, soul, next life, and so on.Feb 17 18:34
balzac  <--- nice analogyFeb 17 18:37
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schestowitzVietnam may shut down Vietnamese-American Web site < >Feb 17 18:41
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MinceRschestowitz: i think that's too much troubleFeb 17 18:42
MinceRcremation or dumping the body in the ocean seems to be greener to meFeb 17 18:43
schestowitzWho is the recipient of money in this case? : ( Gates wants the poor to bank on their mobile phones)Feb 17 18:43
schestowitzMicrosoft innovates imitation. Windows Mobile 6.5 shows clever burst of originality. Haha no. < >Feb 17 18:49
schestowitzOh BTW, I almost forgot... (Money)... Happy GW Bush Day!@Feb 17 18:50
schestowitzEconomic collapse leads to rise in suicides, apparently (says RMS): "The number of farmers who have committed suicide in India between 1997 and 2007 now stands at a staggering 182,936." 17 18:55
schestowitz "Almost 200,000 Indian farmers are known to have committed suicide due to the debts that resulted from imposed economic globalization."Feb 17 18:56
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balzacMinceR: my grandfather on my dad's side had that done. He was in group called the Neptune Club which does cremation, then dumps the ashes at sea.Feb 17 19:22
MinceRthat works tooFeb 17 19:22
schestowitzReligious groups must be going ballistic over the idea.Feb 17 19:24
MinceRi'd like to help them go ballistic :>Feb 17 19:24
schestowitzCan 'souls' swim?Feb 17 19:25
balzacas long as they don't go nuclear...Feb 17 19:25
MinceRno need for a warheadFeb 17 19:25
schestowitzThey don't go nuclearFeb 17 19:25
schestowitzNeverFeb 17 19:25
MinceRjust a nice, big rocketFeb 17 19:25
schestowitzThey go Noo-ki-LARFeb 17 19:25
MinceRnucular.Feb 17 19:25
balzacReligious fanatics should be kept far from any advanced weaponry. I would like it if the US government were as vigilant about keeping pseudo-Christian rapture-fanatics away from our nuclear arsenal as they are about keeping nuclear weapons away from Islamic fanatics in the middle east.Feb 17 19:28
MinceRi'd like to have the fundies out of the us governmentFeb 17 19:28
balzacI'd like to have "In God We Trust" removed from the money.Feb 17 19:29
trmancowhere can I get one block ascii art?Feb 17 19:29
balzacThe bible-beaters think the US is a Christian theocracy because Eisenhower let them put a religious slogan on the currency.Feb 17 19:29
schestowitzbalzac: +1 re paper money. What does Godd have to do with cash/Feb 17 19:30
balzacIt's a slap in the face to Americans who atheists, agnostics, polytheists, wiccans, etc.Feb 17 19:30
schestowitzbalzac: actually, the state's founders were very religiousFeb 17 19:31
balzacI think it was the doing of Billy Graham who preached that Karl Marx was literally a demon.Feb 17 19:31
schestowitzWaving the Holy Books while slaughtering nativesFeb 17 19:31
balzacso they tried to link economic policy with religionFeb 17 19:31
schestowitzImperialism (conquering the northern hemisphere) was one of the main goals.Feb 17 19:32
MinceR203622 <@schestowitz> balzac: +1 re paper money. What does Godd have to do with cash/Feb 17 19:32
schestowitzIt''s all in the history literature.Feb 17 19:32
balzacschestowitz: nevertheless, they were intelligent enough not to put that religious slogan on the money.Feb 17 19:32
MinceRthat's easy to answerFeb 17 19:32
MinceRgod _is_ cash.Feb 17 19:32
MinceRand cash is god.Feb 17 19:32
balzacI'd rather they put "In Baal We Trust" on the cash.Feb 17 19:32
balzacbetter yet, don't put religious craziness on the currency.Feb 17 19:32
schestowitz:-)Feb 17 19:32
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toroshiFeb 17 19:32
MinceRhayFeb 17 19:32
schestowitzit's like "Oh God! Make sure we can exceed $11 in debt. Just print more Benjamins"Feb 17 19:33
schestowitzYo benJIman !Feb 17 19:33
balzacI should have said "In Mammon We Trust"Feb 17 19:33
balzacThere's a big "golden calf" right there on Wall St.Feb 17 19:34
schestowitzbenJIman: time for you guys to abandon Novell before it abandons /you/: 17 19:34
schestowitz:-) Calf... waiting to grow and become deformed into a pig.Feb 17 19:35
schestowitzPig represents greedFeb 17 19:35
schestowitzCow = cashcowFeb 17 19:35
schestowitz"Give us your poor..." We'll give them credit cardsFeb 17 19:36
MinceRwell, it does have the Illuminati logoFeb 17 19:41
schestowitz:-)Feb 17 19:43
schestowitzbblFeb 17 19:43
twitter-> balzac: Bruce Perens was tossed for saying [paraphrasing] "It's time to start saying free software again. Notice I didn't say open source."Feb 17 20:01
twitterThat is too bad.  I like the tongue lashing Molben gave O'Riely.  If you don't talk about freedom, you are unprepared for the things people do.Feb 17 20:01
balzacI agreed with Moglen, but he was shifting around in his seat and his delivery sounded crypticFeb 17 20:12
twitter"MethodOne: twitter, do you actually use twitter?"  No, but I hope they read me.  I've been twitter longer than they have been a service.Feb 17 20:12
balzacHe could do without the overly serious deliveryFeb 17 20:12
balzacNot that I look cool and composed in front of an audience.Feb 17 20:13
balzacI'm just thinking he could have been more jockular and casual about itFeb 17 20:14
balzacjocularFeb 17 20:15
twitter"(06:38:28 PM) benJIman: I find the 64bit OOo quite unstable compared to the 32bit build."  You should try a Debian Build.  I've been running all 64 bit for more than a year.  It's an older version of OO, but there's nothing unstable about it or it's 32 bit version.Feb 17 20:16
balzacIt had the seriousness of a member of the central committee of soviet russiaFeb 17 20:16
balzacRMS had a good tone when a M$ employee bid the highest at an auction of a stuffed GNU.Feb 17 20:18
twitterRMS was laughing at the concept of a GNU at M$ campus.Feb 17 20:20
twitterMoglen was angry and he had a right to be.  "Open Source" people have ignored these problems for the last ten years and said nasty things about RMS and Moglen.Feb 17 20:21
twitterMoglen may have also detected an attempt to FUD Google.Feb 17 20:21
balzacI can't say I haven't been angryFeb 17 20:21
balzacI understand where he was coming from, but you want to look good on video.Feb 17 20:22
twitterYou have to wonder if he had been harassed all morning before he got there.Feb 17 20:22
twitterM$ people keep up the attack 24/7/365Feb 17 20:22
balzacyour ego must have thick wallsFeb 17 20:22
balzacand preferably be large enough to cast a shadow over your opponent's egoFeb 17 20:23
twitterTim has acted like a fool.  Moglen called him.  I loved when he said something like, "I was sure that I'd verify your primary thesis which is why I did my best not to."Feb 17 20:24
balzacbut very few in the audience were nerdy enough to know that Moglen wonFeb 17 20:24
trmanco 17 20:25
twitterThe message was loud and clear.  "Freedom matters"Feb 17 20:25
twitterIt's a good sign that people in the audience applauded Molgen despite his "seriousness"Feb 17 20:26
balzacbut you don't want to put on blue war paint and go around with a hoarse voice like Mel Gibson unless you're in a pitched battle and Steve Ballmer noogying you.Feb 17 20:26
twitterTwitter laughs thinking about all the little GNUs in M$'s wifi and other campus systems.Feb 17 20:27
balzacsorry for the flippant responses. I've got to get single-minded about my work just now.Feb 17 20:27
twitterI'm surprised Moglen bothered to visit at all.  He could have been and should have been a little less peeved, but I can understand his attitude with people who have chided him and RMS as "dictatorial" and all that for ten years.Feb 17 20:28
twitter:) I'm having a good time.  Good luck with your work.Feb 17 20:28
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schestowitz<twitter>, yes Moglen is typically calmFeb 17 22:00
schestowitzbalzac: i loves that ORLY videoFeb 17 22:02
schestowitzMoglen did good. See my comments there, ORLY repliesFeb 17 22:02
schestowitzI did the unthinkable and watched the Obama speech about Public Looting this evening. The BBC hit it on the nail for a change when saying that it's just supposed to create optimism.Feb 17 22:20
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schestowitzCousin says: "APPLE IS TRYING TO MAKE the act of modifying the Iphone operating system to allow the installation of third party software illegal. "Feb 17 22:24
twitterORLY, " I believe that making money is like putting gas in the car:  something you do to help get where you're going, rather than where you're going."  Bad, bad analogy.Feb 17 22:24
schestowitz"speaking of you can't do what you like with an item you own!"Feb 17 22:24
schestowitzPeople can only rent iPhone or Windows... You can't buy or own them.Feb 17 22:24
twitterThe iPhone is an egregious example of network and software violations intersect to fuck over the user.Feb 17 22:26
schestowitztwitter: not too terrible this ORLY analogyFeb 17 22:26
schestowitzHere is the video, for context: 17 22:27
twitterIt is an astonishingly elitist analogy.Feb 17 22:27
schestowitz"You speak of mutual "regret" but you and Moglen seem to use that word in different senses."Feb 17 22:28
twitterI'm thinking O'Reilly wanted to crap on Google and Facebook.Feb 17 22:35
twitterIt's funny how he did not mention abortions like MySpace, MSN and others that don't use free software.Feb 17 22:35
twitterMoglen is right, overall.  Network and Software freedom will eliminate the "problems" Tim obsesses about.Feb 17 22:37
twitterThat won't happen if people are not talking about "freedom" loud and clear.Feb 17 22:37
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schestowitzI like I might use it one day. The FSFers are all there..Feb 17 22:39
trmancoyepFeb 17 22:39
trmancolots of DEVs tooFeb 17 22:39
schestowitzGood!Feb 17 22:39
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceRFeb 17 22:39
schestowitzSome FOSS people went to twitter  (no offense, twitter ), showing their hypocrisy.Feb 17 22:39
twitterIn 2001, Tim laid this stinker, "I don't think Richard got Freedom 0 right. There's an even more fundamental freedom that underlies the work of both free software advocates and the most proprietary of software developers, as well as anyone else engaged in creative work. And that is the freedom to offer your work to the world on the terms that you choose, and for the recipients to accept or reject those terms."Feb 17 22:41
twitterHe might as well be advocating slavery as a property right.Feb 17 22:42
trmanco | | 17 22:42
schestowitztwitter: yes, but let's not attack himFeb 17 22:42
schestowitzBetter to educuate him because he's mostly on our side at the end of the dayFeb 17 22:42
schestowitzFamiliar faces... brunomiguel,bkuhn, mattl ...Feb 17 22:44 is great... :)Feb 17 22:44
torosjust take a look at the most popular groups...Feb 17 22:44
torosubuntu, linux, laconica, gnu, python, kdeFeb 17 22:46
schestowitz "So the reality is that RedHat is not making a deal with M$. They are just making a deal with their customers."Feb 17 22:47
schestowitzSome very good comments from the audience there, which is more mature than in other sites like LXer or Digg.Feb 17 22:48 already surpassed Twitter in some aspects, no surprise hereFeb 17 22:49 is very promising: there are great expected features for the next releaseFeb 17 22:50
toros 17 22:51
trmancoyepFeb 17 22:51
trmancoI know EvanFeb 17 22:52
trmanco 17 22:52
torosI am a subscriber of his notices :)Feb 17 22:54
trmancoeverybody should know himFeb 17 22:54
schestowitzReal name?? Fran Foo <------ 17 22:54
trmanco(in 17 22:54
schestowitz ... pretty low-volumeFeb 17 22:55
torosHe seems to be a nice guyFeb 17 22:55
schestowitzMaybe I'll subscribe.Feb 17 22:55
trmancoslow day for me in microbloggingFeb 17 22:57
trmanco:(Feb 17 22:57
trmancotoday*Feb 17 22:57
trmancoschestowitz, I can't find youFeb 17 22:58
schestowitzidentica?Feb 17 22:58
schestowitzI'll make an accountFeb 17 22:58
trmancoyesFeb 17 22:58
trmancooh, I thought you already did :|Feb 17 22:58
torosI think the fsf group is low-volume because people usually don't write about fsf in microblogs...Feb 17 23:00
torosso you say there things like I upgraded my ubuntu, I am listening to some music, drinking tea, etc.Feb 17 23:00
schestowitzChin Wong has done some rubbish Linux articles recently, inc. this one: He used to write better stuff.Feb 17 23:01
torosmaybe boycottnovell could be avaible on too...Feb 17 23:02
torosthrough twitterfeed, or something like thatFeb 17 23:03
schestowitz 17 23:04
schestowitzHere's me there: 17 23:06
trmancocoolFeb 17 23:07
schestowitzOK, so how does one export the data?Feb 17 23:08
schestowitzI want to see if it's truly 'open'Feb 17 23:08
trmancoI just registered myself at githubFeb 17 23:08
trmancomaybe I can learn some stuff thereFeb 17 23:08
trmancoschestowitz, expert how?Feb 17 23:08
trmancolike mbox files in email?Feb 17 23:08
schestowitzYes, whateverFeb 17 23:09
trmancoI don't knowFeb 17 23:09
schestowitzHow do I know /my/ stuff is not stuck in /their/ cloud?Feb 17 23:09
schestowitzIn I could export my bookmarksFeb 17 23:09
trmancoI haven't thought about thatFeb 17 23:09
trmancoask EvanFeb 17 23:09
schestowitzCause even if I could start my own laconica-like service, how would data move?Feb 17 23:09
MinceRi prefer to run my own cloud :>Feb 17 23:09
trmancomaybe it will be a future featureFeb 17 23:10
schestowitzIRC is run in this case by the freenode network, but I'll happily send the raw logs to anyone and everyone can log freelyFeb 17 23:10
schestowitzWith things like twitter it's differentFeb 17 23:10
schestowitzThings are trapped in a complex DBFeb 17 23:10
schestowitzYou don't have the tools require to do much with the DB, let alone get a copy of that DB which your personal chunkFeb 17 23:11
schestowitzMany blogging services like blogspot pose similar issues, but they worked out some export/impart schemas.Feb 17 23:11
schestowitzI follow just one very active twitter account AMT: glynmoodyFeb 17 23:12
schestowitz*ATM (he's covering the same subjects as me)Feb 17 23:12
schestowitzPeople still don't realise just how far gadgets have gone with digital 'manners' and other such Orwellian things.. "next thing, a Sony camcorder can not use TDK tapes and my TV will only be able to view the stations the manufacturer allows." (my cousin)Feb 17 23:20
torosSony did this, not even once: there's the sony memory stick, or the sony beta, or the sony MD...Feb 17 23:25
schestowitzMany people don't know that. They don't know what DRM even means.Feb 17 23:26
schestowitzThe mainstream media hardly does anything to explain these thing that it welcomes. Media = media companies = DRM lovers. Why would they cover it critically?Feb 17 23:27
torosthe biggest problem is that they want to controll the cultureFeb 17 23:31
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mib_ci95lmtuhiFeb 17 23:31
schestowitzHey there.Feb 17 23:32
schestowitz[OT] Microsoft BS, as usual: 17 23:32
torosso you can't buy a movie if they think it's not profitableFeb 17 23:32
schestowitz"'Smartphone' segment to disappear in four years – Microsoft [...] "Nothing's free," he added, in a nod to open source platforms. "The question is where the costs get incurred," he said."Feb 17 23:32
schestowitztoros: it's the same clicheFeb 17 23:32
torosbut they say downloading is illegalFeb 17 23:32
schestowitz"nothing is free.." .. "using Google search is not free" (Ballmer, 2008)Feb 17 23:32
torosyou can't even buy itFeb 17 23:32
torosthat's censorshipFeb 17 23:33
schestowitzAyerFeb 17 23:33
schestowitzWhy Google loves open source < >Feb 17 23:33
schestowitzMicrosoft is going desperate. They allow us the 'opportunity' to buy a licence from them to rent s/w... and we are asked to say "danke"Feb 17 23:34
torosgood night!Feb 17 23:43
torosI'm leaving...Feb 17 23:43
torosIt's rather late hereFeb 17 23:43
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schestowitzAnother mysql escapee? 17 23:49
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