Bonum Certa Men Certa

Antitrust: How Microsoft Schemed to Derail Dell GNU/Linux

Dell monitor logo



IT'S NOT UNCOMMON to state the obvious, but concrete proof can make all the difference in the world, especially in court. As we've already shown, Microsoft's strategy has less to do with self improvement & development but more to do with targeted sabotage against attempts of competitors to... well, just to compete. Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable; If not by force, then by brainwash [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] (control the minds to avoid direct and out-of-hand confrontations).



“Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable...”Last week we gave evidence of this strategy occurring at Wal-Mart and this week we share antitrust material which shows how Microsoft reacted to GNU/Linux at Dell .

Exhibit px09280 (2002) [PDF] from Comes vs Microsoft contains correspondence between Microsoft seniors Bill Veghte and Paul Flessner (the guy who said "we should whack [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value").

They swap opinions and plans with Windows executives like Brian Valentine and Jim Allchin [1, 2, 3] in the background, in addition to anti-Linux characters like Orlando Ayala [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6], even some of today's chiefs like Craig Mundie and Bob Muglia.

The subject of the messages is "Goldman Sachs Linux Panel." The Goldman Sachs Group is close to Microsoft and also a shareholder, it is backer of PSI and EDGI taker too. Here are some bits of interest. The text, in full, is appended below.

Bill Veghte writes:

It's not $50 of margin for Dell. It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today. That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing). It is just a fact.


Bill Veghte also writes:

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made... Linux is Unix on x86. Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers. Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise. Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market. Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

[...]

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell. We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell. I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open. I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts. I am asking that: a) we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux b) we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


Paul Flessner writes:

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do. We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest. I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket. Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that. I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance. But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc. It is an advantage for Linux.


Bill Veghte replies:

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions. I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example). I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard. Today, they do not. When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.


Veghte also expresses this concern:

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows. He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows. Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.


He wrote in the briefing:

Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell. He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell. He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow. He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system. He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC. He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux. Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

[...]

Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.


To summarise, Dell supported GNU/Linux, several companies praised the platform, and Microsoft pumped money into Dell, potentially in attempt to pressure it out of GNU/Linux.




Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit px09280, as text








From:       Bill Veghte

Sent:       Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:59 AM

To:           Paul Flessner

Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


It's not $50 of margin for Dell.  It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today.  That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing).  It is just a fact.



---- Original Message ----
From:     Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:02AM
To:    Bill Veghte
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I would go for the $50 pts of margin.  You need to think more broadly.  All you say is true but my statement is true as well. It is just fact.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:08AM
To: Paul Flessner; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Sigh....Yes, I can disagree with your statement that Dell's behavior won't change.  If it won't change, then we should just throw in the towel and settle for %50 market share at best.  We will change Dell's behavior by thinking thru their motivations and opportunities and being very creative.

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made...  Linux is Unix on x86.  Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers.  Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise.  Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market.  Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

All of these things are reality.  Given these realities, lets add our perspective to the picture.  If I am Michael Dell, I have to believe that my #1 competitor long term is IBM.  Dell has to decide what their competitive strategy is going to be against IBM.  If they are going to compete with IBM and it services driven organization, they are a) going to have to build a strong relationship with our field and service partners, b) they are going to have to bet on our engineering engine as their primary innovation machine.  That means a close partnership with us.  They need to understand that with the passage of time Linux and IBM become more and more equivalent.

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell.  We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell.  I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open.  I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts.  I am asking that:
a)  we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux
b)  we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


4/6/2005

Plaintiff's Exhibit
9280
Comes V Microsoft

MS-CC-RN 000000982974
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




This is an engineering statement, this is a marketing statement, this is a field statement.

---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:13AM
To: Bill Veghte; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

You can't disagree with my statement.  It is fact.  It is capitalism, like gravity.

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do.  We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest.  I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket.  Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that.  I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance.  But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc.  It is an advantage for Linux.

Where are our advantages?  This is a productive discussion.

This is just life.  I am not giving up.  I don't have a Penguin in my basement.  I LOVE Windows which is why I want us to face this so we can figure it out.

The sooner we recognize it the sooner we can get our heads around it and decide how to go after it.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Boy do I respectfully disagree with the statement "Dell's behavior is predictable and won't change...

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions.  I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example).  I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard.  Today, they do not.  When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.

I think there are two very specific actions:
---> alignment in the field pushing Dell on the one that they are going to be most uncomfortabe with... Unix app migration (Kevin & Joe Marengi)
---> Clarity and metrics around Windows Server vs. Redhat in marketing and technology (product group and OEM group)

To Rick's last email on this thread around actions, I want to be careful we don't personalize it with Russ because I want to win him back but the key to that is thru Joe.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982975
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:07AM
To: Bill Veghte; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


The obvious but:  Dell is a HW company.  They are facing tremendous margin pressure in a commodity market.  If you are Dell you are being forced to squeeze every dollar out of the business you can to survive.  Given that situation you would be looking hard at that MS OEM payment.

Think back to Jim Cash's talk this week.  These guys are living that situation.

I don't have the answer here but Dell's behavior is predictable and it won't change.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:55AM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was sitting right across the panel from him.  We waved at each other briefly before the panel started.

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows.  He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows.  Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.

Dell is and must continue to be a partner with us but we need to be very aggressive in comparing our position and their investment in RedHat.

---- Original Message ----
From: Brian Valentine 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Bill Veghte; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Did Russ Holt know you were there?  I can't imagine he would be this blatant against us if he knew you were there.  If he knew and he is really doing this, then we have some serious thinking to do around this relationship.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982976
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




Mundie
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees
Subject: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was down at Goldman SW conference earlier this week doing a keynote and on the agenda there was a panel discussion on Linux after me so I asked to participate.  The panel consisted of CFO of RedHat, VPs from Oracle, BMG, BEA, Veritas and Dell.  It turned into quite a lively discussion as you can imagine.  Couple quick notes...

Dell & Linux:
Each company's position was quite predictably slamming us but the one that really got me animated was Dell.  Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell.  He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell.  He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow.  He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system.  He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC.  He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux.  Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

I spoke to Rick Wong about today but we need to make darn certain that our investments with Dell are benchmarked against any investments they make in RedHat.  The majority of their business is on Windows and their marketing, their website, and their investment should reflect this or we should call them on it.  Same goes for things like sales training or events.  When we do events, field engagement and measure our progress it should be benchmarked against the results and/or what they are doing with RedHat.  Dell is a key partner for us and one that imho will grow in significance in the coming years so it is a tricky balance but one that we need to be more aggressive around.

Linux & the enterprise:

This was the focus.  RedHat CFO spent his entire time talking about how their entire focus was Linux in the enterprise and all the things that they were doing to make it enterprise ready.  He then went on and on around the certification and testing programs that they had put in place and the partnerships they were building with companies like IBM, Dell, Oracle, Veritas, BMC, BEA etc.. Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.

Linux Development Model:
Each of the panelists talked about the interaction with RedHat and the community development model as a real highlight for them.  They all talked about how it made it easier to impact the direction of the platform (including Dell ironically) and how transparent the whole process was.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982977
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office Hijacked Again by Patent Litigation Industry, as President Cheeto Prioritises Aggressors
The "mafia" has taken over the "industry" and the Federal system (justice and constitutions trampled upon)
Ubuntu Slop and FUD Manufactured With LLMs and Funded (by Oneself) 'Studies'
Slop and FUD are ruining the Web
 
Gemini Links 02/04/2025: Books and Cold Tea
Links for the day
Links 02/04/2025: More Layoffs, Nokia Again Takes Advantage of Illegal and Unconstitutional Patent Court With Nokia Staff as 'Judges'
Links for the day
Links 02/04/2025: Seizures and Returns to Windows of 24 Years Ago
Links for the day
LLM Slop Helps Obscure and Distort News About Layoffs (IBM, GAFAM)
It's hard to find accurate information
Links 02/04/2025: Microsoft Developers Are Threatening to Go on Strike, World Backup Day Noted
Links for the day
Gemini Protocol Has Growing Appeal (the Web Got Too Bloated and Full of LLM Slop)
For any "data plan" with bandwidth limits or "tiers" it would be cheaper to use/browse Geminispace
The Web Can Survive LLM Slop, But Only If We Collectively Shun and Discourage Serial Sloppers
Doing nothing ought not be a possibility
Amid Secret Shut-downs and Mass Layoffs at Microsoft (4 Waves of Layoffs in 3 Months of 2025) Some Microsoft Staff Expected to Go On Strike
workers going on strike
Gemini Links 02/04/2025: No more on Mastodon and Gemini Mention Script in Go
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, April 01, 2025
IRC logs for Tuesday, April 01, 2025
My Motion Disbarring or “Striking Off” Brett Wilson LLP for Enabling Violent Americans Who Try to Crush Microsoft Critics in the United Kingdom by Multiple SLAPPs
"Guns for hire" (for Microsoft people who received Microsoft salaries)
Gemini Links 01/04/2025: Games and More
Links for the day
Links 01/04/2025: Apple Fined $162M for Privacy Abuses, Disinformation Online a Growing Concern
Links for the day
Why We're Reporting Brett Wilson LLP for Apparently Misusing Their Licence to Protect American Microsofters Who Attack Women
For those who have not been keeping abreast
Newer Press Reports Confirm That Microsoft Shuts Down 'Hey Hi' (AI) Labs Despite All the Hype
The "hey hi" (AI) bubble is not sustainable
Links 01/04/2025: Mass Layoffs at Eidos and "Microsoft Pulls Back on Data Centers" (Demand Lacking); "Racist and Sexist" Slop From Microsoft
Links for the day
Stefano Maffulli and His Microsoft-Funded OSI Staff Are Killing the OSI and Killing "Open Source" (All for Money!)
This is far from over
Gemini Links 01/04/2025: XKCDpunk and worldclock.py
Links for the day
50 Years of Sabotage and a Gut Punch to Computer Science (and Science in General)
Will we get back to science-based computing rather than cult-like following?
Techrights Headlines as Semaphore
"If you are hearing this, thank you"
3 Months in 2025, 4 Waves of Mass Layoffs at Microsoft, Now Offices Shut Down Permanently
"A recent visit by the South China Morning Post confirmed that the office was dark, unoccupied, and had its logo removed."
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, March 31, 2025
IRC logs for Monday, March 31, 2025
Links 31/03/2025: China Tensions, Bombs Falling in Myanmar After Earthquake
Links for the day
Gemini Links 31/03/2025: Falling Out of Love With Tech, Sunsetting openSNP
Links for the day
R.T.O. at IBM in Texas and Atlanta (State of Georgia) Expected as "Soft Layoffs" Catalyst This Coming Year
It also sounds like more IBM layoffs are in the making
Law Firms Can Also Lose Their Licence for Clearly Misusing It
The bottom line is, never made the false assumption that because you can pile up SLAPPs in a docket you will not suffer from bad reputation or even get disbarred
Link between institutional abuse, Swiss jurists, Debianism and FSFE
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
LLM Slop Piggybacking News About GNU/Linux and Distorting It
new examples
Links 31/03/2025: Press and Democracy Under Further Attacks in the US, Attitudes Towards Slop Sour
Links for the day
Open Source Initiative (OSI) Privacy Fiasco in Detail: The OSI Does Not Respect Anybody's Privacy
The surveillance mafia that bans dissent or key people (even co-founders) with dissenting views
Gemini Links 31/03/2025: More X-Filesposting and Dreaming in Emacs
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, March 30, 2025
IRC logs for Sunday, March 30, 2025