04.15.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 14th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:31 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

schestowitz	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world…	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	Microsoft goes black, making Chinese see red	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	http://news.theage.com.au/technol…	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	Microsoft anti-piracy tactic turns computer screens black	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/…	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	Microsoft Tactic Raises Hackles in China	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1224…	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	Microsoft sued over anti-piracy activity	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2…	Apr 14 08:34
kentma	mornin’ all	Apr 14 08:34
schestowitz	Howdy, kentma	Apr 14 08:34
DaemonFC	yeah, read about that	Apr 14 08:35
kentma	how’re things in manc?	Apr 14 08:35
schestowitz	Big Microsoft partners collapse too: Infosys fires 2,100 < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/20… >	Apr 14 08:36
schestowitz	kentma: all right so far. Fun Easter	Apr 14 08:36
kentma	wow – tough times…	Apr 14 08:36
schestowitz	Even in India…	Apr 14 08:36
schestowitz	MS is mass-closing units. http://www.youtube.com/wa…	Apr 14 08:36
kentma	Recession is a nasty thing, big human cost. ohh – I’ll look at that…	Apr 14 08:37
kentma	hmm, just seen the Uniloc patent result.	Apr 14 08:37
schestowitz	Maybe Linus et al can escape Portland in case they need to maintain development outside chaotic places. Linus did work over the Internet from Helsinki… and Cox up north	Apr 14 08:37
schestowitz	kentma: recession is an understatment	Apr 14 08:37
schestowitz	It assume thinks revert back to normal	Apr 14 08:38
kentma	Isn’t A Cox a Welshman?	Apr 14 08:38
schestowitz	*assumes things	Apr 14 08:38
schestowitz	kentma: yes	Apr 14 08:38
DaemonFC	well, Microsoft of course pushes FOR stiffer patent laws	Apr 14 08:38
schestowitz	North of Europe	Apr 14 08:38
kentma	schestowitz: yes, it’s nasty nasty. I note that unemployment in Manc has almost doubled this year.	Apr 14 08:38
DaemonFC	I guess they never thought they’d get bit in the ass	Apr 14 08:38
schestowitz	kentma: what’s the definition for it?	Apr 14 08:38
schestowitz	Has it changed like in America?	Apr 14 08:39
kentma	schestowitz: this is based on the number of people claiming “job seekers’ allowance”	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	DaemonFC: they don’t develop products	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	In 2007 they began heavy patent-filing	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	Now they have 10k patents	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	Good just for scaring companies like TomTOm	Apr 14 08:39
DaemonFC	schestowitz: US government admitted 683,000 net job losses last month	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	Like SCO putting up “indemnification” page for sales	Apr 14 08:39
DaemonFC	that doesn’t tell you what kind of jobs (McDonalds) replaced them (Walmart)	Apr 14 08:39
schestowitz	Same signs	Apr 14 08:39
DaemonFC	otherwise it looks a LOT worse	Apr 14 08:40
DaemonFC		Apr 14 08:40
schestowitz	DaemonFC: WalMart will be like the “Red”-branded product in China.	Apr 14 08:40
DaemonFC	683,000 is AFTER they cook the numbers with every trick in the book	Apr 14 08:40
schestowitz	It’s not 683k	Apr 14 08:40
schestowitz	It’s a lot more	Apr 14 08:40
schestowitz	They lowball it	Apr 14 08:41
DaemonFC	that’s what I said	Apr 14 08:41
DaemonFC	they cooked the numbers	Apr 14 08:41
schestowitz	No way!	Apr 14 08:41
schestowitz	Why would they do such a thing	Apr 14 08:41
schestowitz	And MS says only 4% of netbooks run Linux	Apr 14 08:41
kentma	DaemonFC: I found out recently how the US Gov calculates growth – basically, it guesses and always guesses on the high side, whereas several EU govs use actual figures, which appear lower, but when measured over several years, US growth rate has been behind EU… fascinating exercise in stats.	Apr 14 08:41
DaemonFC	unemployment right now, if you look at the real picture are more like 15-20% depending on where you are in the US	Apr 14 08:41
DaemonFC	and underemployment adds to that	Apr 14 08:42
kentma	DaemonFC: Unemp figures here are hard to understand because so many people are now excluded from the figures – this is a hangover from the Thatcher gov.	Apr 14 08:42
schestowitz	Even reporting of quarterly earning changed overt the years to generate optimism. I read about it.	Apr 14 08:42
schestowitz	This means that companies like Microsoft did not always beat previous quarters	Apr 14 08:42
DaemonFC	right, the US government puts lipstick on it so that foreign banks don’t panic sell all our currency	Apr 14 08:42
DaemonFC	and freeze our credit lines	Apr 14 08:43
schestowitz	DaemonFC: was 14% in 2008 IIRC	Apr 14 08:43
schestowitz	Great Depression peaked at 25%, IIRC	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	no, higher	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	it got over 30%	Apr 14 08:43
schestowitz	So it’s not far off, but they changed how they count	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	in 1932 I think	Apr 14 08:43
schestowitz	DaemonFC: check Wikipedia	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	then it started coming back down	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	lmao	Apr 14 08:43
DaemonFC	Wikipedia	Apr 14 08:43
schestowitz	The problem will come about later	Apr 14 08:44
*DaemonFC edits it to say 30% in 1932		Apr 14 08:44
schestowitz	When the big nations dump the dollar	Apr 14 08:44
DaemonFC	yep, I was right	Apr 14 08:44
schestowitz	Then, Wall Street will tumble	Apr 14 08:44
*kentma laughs		Apr 14 08:44
DaemonFC	I really don’t care	Apr 14 08:44
schestowitz	They can’t afford to have the USD become another Rubel	Apr 14 08:44
DaemonFC	that’s a good thing	Apr 14 08:44
DaemonFC	it’ll be painful, but hopefully this government becomes insolvent and collapses	Apr 14 08:45
DaemonFC	and we can set up a new constitutional convention	Apr 14 08:45
DaemonFC	and form a new one	Apr 14 08:45
schestowitz	*ruble	Apr 14 08:45
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Sometimes the only way to fix something is to tear it down	Apr 14 08:45
DaemonFC	and rebuild	Apr 14 08:45
DaemonFC	and I think thats where our government is	Apr 14 08:46
DaemonFC	they’re too well dug in to get rid of through insurgency or coup	Apr 14 08:47
DaemonFC	so that’s why I hope our ecomony fails	Apr 14 08:47
DaemonFC	*economy	Apr 14 08:47
schestowitz	On Kendall Dawson: “He does a good job and has not gone over to the dark side. Unfortunately that means that trolls constantly make written personal attacks against him. I also recall that when Slashdot was working on its 10-year celebration, there were a lot of posts from the trolls advocating physical violence against him. “	Apr 14 08:47
schestowitz	Kendall Dawson=kdawson, /. editor	Apr 14 08:48
schestowitz	DaemonFC: easier said than done	Apr 14 08:48
schestowitz	You lose competitiveness in the process	Apr 14 08:48
DaemonFC	Microsoft has a lot of meat puppets patrolling blogs and youtube	Apr 14 08:48
DaemonFC	and if it’s not them, it’s some horribly brainwashed suck up	Apr 14 08:48
schestowitz	MS partners	Apr 14 08:49
schestowitz	Sometimes…	Apr 14 08:49
kentma	hmm just seen the netcraft article – it seems somehow relevant. How far can stats be twisted?	Apr 14 08:49
schestowitz	They have lots of dependents	Apr 14 08:49
schestowitz	Destruction of MSFT can mean destruction of millions of jobs	Apr 14 08:49
schestowitz	Around the world that is. But it’s mostly relearning and education. Some losses are indirect (channel sellers for Microsoft\|Oracle\|others)	Apr 14 08:50
schestowitz	BSA is a front to many	Apr 14 08:50
schestowitz	Bill Gates’ dad’s people….	Apr 14 08:50
schestowitz	kentma: some say Microsoft is really under 20%	Apr 14 08:51
schestowitz	They go to hosts and offer the shift of parked domain	Apr 14 08:51
schestowitz	Then they can brag about gaining in Netcraft and make sales/business case. It’s self-fulfillung prophecy	Apr 14 08:51
kentma	Consider the massive global project currently underway, though – which is the replacement of Windows with Linux-based systems. This is going to create huge numbers of job opportunities, both in the developed world for the changeout, retraining of staff and so on, as well as in the developing world where this technology will become affordable without violating copyright.	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	Fake growth, try to then use it to make it so. Zune and Silver Lie are example where it failed	Apr 14 08:52
kentma	schestowitz: indeed, I was just reading the LT references in the digest – you posted this a couple of days ago.	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	They try it now on sub-notebooks. They try to scare OEMs using fake figures	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	They used NPD to lie about tZune like this too	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	they stuff the channel and sample at stuffed shops momentarily	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	Then make lots of press. IDG helped them a lot with this slog	Apr 14 08:52
schestowitz	Microsoft buddies (personal relationship) like Shane O’Neill seed it and then peers parrot the lies	Apr 14 08:53
DaemonFC	“Link0ot has made a comment on Windows 7- My thoughts:	Apr 14 08:53
DaemonFC	LOL you noob! Reinstalling Windows 7 three times? haha. BSODs 9 times? You are obviously a windows noob. Stick with your crappy Linux.	Apr 14 08:53
DaemonFC	Only noob and windows illiterate have issue. Oh the way, Windows 7 is still in beta, noob!!”	Apr 14 08:53
schestowitz	kentma: “This really is remarkable. You really need to look at it closely, particularly this sentence: Fifty percent of those surveyed by Dimensional Research said they’ve considered switching to a non-Windows OS to avoid Vista or Windows 7. ” http://www.informationweek.com/news/wind…	Apr 14 08:53
schestowitz	I got it by E-mail this morning.	Apr 14 08:54
DaemonFC	oh my god, he said “illiterate” and spelled it right	Apr 14 08:54
kentma	schestowitz: the whole system is completely corrupt. It’s hardly surprising we’ve just suffered a stock-market crash, really.	Apr 14 08:54
DaemonFC	irony?	Apr 14 08:54
*kentma looks		Apr 14 08:54
schestowitz	kentma: I’ve always had many equestion about it	Apr 14 08:54
schestowitz	The integrity of a system too good to be true	Apr 14 08:55
schestowitz	And some people can now brag about saying this for ages… intellectuals mostly	Apr 14 08:55
schestowitz	Money does not grow on trees unless the fairies come there at night and plants it on the branches	Apr 14 08:55
kentma	the people trousering cash at the time will always argue hotly against this, though, since this is how they get their money.	Apr 14 08:55
schestowitz	Thank goodness I (or my family) have no loans to pay	Apr 14 08:56
kentma	I’ve got a mortgage, but nothing else.	Apr 14 08:56
kentma	I’m not a believer in being in debt.	Apr 14 08:56
schestowitz	Average debt per UK person: GBP50	Apr 14 08:56
schestowitz	50k	Apr 14 08:57
schestowitz	Including old men, babies, temps, soldiers	Apr 14 08:57
kentma	That’s high, considering average salaries…	Apr 14 08:57
schestowitz	Yes, but not quite all of the story	Apr 14 08:57
schestowitz	When unemployment rises and market caps of assets like BP decline, then it’s hard to liquefy and pay back.	Apr 14 08:58
schestowitz	See how the value of Citi sank	Apr 14 08:58
kentma	The biggest risk is in the pension funds…	Apr 14 08:58
schestowitz	Ripe for pickup by CHinese businessmen… but… I just don’t think they are even interested	Apr 14 08:58
schestowitz	China must be the world’s largest exporter	Apr 14 08:58
kentma	pension funds are some of the biggest investors on the stock market, they “pay” a big chunk of society (the retired), and their worth is falling with the market.	Apr 14 08:59
kentma	The InfWeek article is damning.	Apr 14 08:59
kentma	But not surprising.	Apr 14 08:59
schestowitz	http://www.mbtmag.com/articleXml/LN… “US Linux operating systems integrator Red Hat (NYSE: RHT) has appointed Pablo Papazian as sales executive and Guido Ipszman as sales manager at the company’s South American unit, Red Hat said in a statement.”	Apr 14 08:59
kentma	I expect that many companies will be looking at a rollout of netbooks for many staff this year.	Apr 14 09:00
schestowitz	kentma: I never heard of that firm before.	Apr 14 09:00
schestowitz	Microsoft will counter by bribing its stageset	Apr 14 09:00
schestowitz	Forrester, IDC, etc	Apr 14 09:00
schestowitz	They ALWAYS do that	Apr 14 09:00
kentma	I’m not sure how many people are believing them any more – the recession has woken up a lot of people.	Apr 14 09:00
schestowitz	In BN, I’ve led many people to disregard analysts like that	Apr 14 09:00
kentma	Rightly so!	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	Doug picked up some evidence	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	And another person I can’t name sent me pointers	Apr 14 09:01
kentma	Oh? Interesting… is it anything which can be published?	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	IDC and Gartner bills…	Apr 14 09:01
kentma	Ah…	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	I called it “Analyst Cartel” — a 5-part series	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	It’s very popular still…. not as much as the Intel-Microsoft anti-Linux	Apr 14 09:01
kentma	Hehe – excellent – anyway, must get on with work – happy easter & speak soon.	Apr 14 09:01
schestowitz	Thanks./	Apr 14 09:02
schestowitz	kentma: it’s already published BTW	Apr 14 09:02
schestowitz	I just don’t put this in COLA	Apr 14 09:02
schestowitz	Leading to accusation of ‘self promotion’ from Microsoft’s policemen in COLA	Apr 14 09:02
schestowitz	“The US owes Iraq 53 billion dollars for the oil it has been unable to sell since the conquest” http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-…	Apr 14 09:04
schestowitz	“Moldova is the poorest country of the Europe. A couple of days ago we had	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	elections. You could hear about it in the news, the Parliament and the	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	President’s residence were burnt. The ruling Communist party blames the	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	opposition and the neighbor country Romania for this. Some claim that this	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	was staged by the Communist party itself – the same scenario used by Nazis	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	when they burnt the Reichstag.”	Apr 14 09:05
schestowitz	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-j…	Apr 14 09:05
DaemonFC	schestowitz: So we don’t pay them?	Apr 14 09:07
DaemonFC	The problem is solved on our end	Apr 14 09:07
schestowitz	It’s like paying your debts at war	Apr 14 09:07
DaemonFC	or better yet, we could say that we’ll apply it towards what they owe us	Apr 14 09:07
DaemonFC	B-)	Apr 14 09:07
schestowitz	And later Bush asks, “why do they hate us?”	Apr 14 09:07
schestowitz	Rumsfeld et al know very well the answer	Apr 14 09:07
schestowitz	But they don’t tell him	Apr 14 09:08
schestowitz	he asked it in Sept. 13th, 2001 BTW	Apr 14 09:08
schestowitz	A lot of the Bush cabinet armed the Moujahadin (Spelling) and offered them training to shoot Russuan tanks with Stingers	Apr 14 09:08
schestowitz	That is also why Osama, coming from a veyr wealthy family, was disgusted and appalled almost 2 decades ago. The US used Afghanistan as cannon fodder.	Apr 14 09:09
DaemonFC	well, more of them would have died without us	Apr 14 09:10
DaemonFC	the Soviets would have taken them after killing many more people	Apr 14 09:10
DaemonFC	the truth is they used us just as much as we used them	Apr 14 09:11
DaemonFC	and the Taliban took over later and they got what they wanted	Apr 14 09:11
DaemonFC	a Muslim theocracy	Apr 14 09:11
schestowitz	[corp-focus] No Blank Check for the IMF < http://lists.essential.org/pipermail… >	Apr 14 09:11
DaemonFC	the reason they hate Americans is the same reason they hated the Soviets	Apr 14 09:11
DaemonFC	or anyone that’s not Muslim	Apr 14 09:12
schestowitz	BTW, 40% if the USian military busget is black.. unknown… no access even to the Senate	Apr 14 09:12
schestowitz	Since project Manhattan (scheme to nuke opponents)	Apr 14 09:12
DaemonFC	if they were ever powerful enough to wipe us out, they’d come after everyone else that’s not Muslim next	Apr 14 09:12
DaemonFC	don’t think they like you any better	Apr 14 09:12
schestowitz	Aggravation didn’t help, either	Apr 14 09:13
DaemonFC	It shocks me that so-called LIBERALS defend such an illiberal undemocratic people	Apr 14 09:13
kentma	DaemonFC: nobody has ever successfully invaded Afganistan.	Apr 14 09:13
schestowitz	The threat increased sevenfold after the Iraq invasion	Apr 14 09:13
schestowitz	It’s not just threat to the US	Apr 14 09:13
schestowitz	The US put a lot of its neighbouring countries and allies at risk too	Apr 14 09:13
DaemonFC	I consider myself a liberal, but even I really don’t like those people	Apr 14 09:13
DaemonFC	and I’m not going to defend someone that wants to kill me	Apr 14 09:13
DaemonFC	just cause I won’t convert to their sick religion	Apr 14 09:14
schestowitz	DaemonFC: if your theory is true about Islam, then how come early in the century there was hardly a problem?	Apr 14 09:14
DaemonFC	are you kidding me?	Apr 14 09:14
schestowitz	EVEN WITHOUT surveillance and foreign military bases.	Apr 14 09:14
DaemonFC	The Ottoman Empire	Apr 14 09:14
DaemonFC	World War 1?	Apr 14 09:14
schestowitz	DaemonFC: the religious justification comes AFTER the technical one	Apr 14 09:15
DaemonFC	if they were equipped and prepared to murder all non-muslims and anyone “less Muslim” than they are	Apr 14 09:15
DaemonFC	they would do it	Apr 14 09:15
schestowitz	Like, I might sidle with Linux /because/. Microsoft injured me (or someone else like Ernie Ball)	Apr 14 09:15
kentma	DaemonFC: Steady here, Islam is not sick. Aside from anything else, Islam itself is not anti-Christian. Christianity has always been anti-Islam, though.	Apr 14 09:15
DaemonFC	The partitioning of the middle east after WW1 into Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Israel, etc was the right thing to do	Apr 14 09:15
schestowitz	The world’s biggest atrocities have nothing to do with religion BTW	Apr 14 09:15
DaemonFC	it keeps them at each others throats	Apr 14 09:15
schestowitz	Congo, WW2… not a religious war	Apr 14 09:15
DaemonFC	that was the point	Apr 14 09:16
schestowitz	OK	Apr 14 09:16
schestowitz	It’s usually water, territory, despration	Apr 14 09:16
DaemonFC	kentma: The Christians and Muslims are both pretty hateful and sick	Apr 14 09:16
schestowitz	Religious is used for labelling	Apr 14 09:16
DaemonFC	and I consider both my enemy	Apr 14 09:16
schestowitz	“Them” vs “Us”	Apr 14 09:16
schestowitz	*Religionv(typo)	Apr 14 09:17
schestowitz	It’s not a religious thing	Apr 14 09:17
schestowitz	Maybe geographical and geo-political	Apr 14 09:17
DaemonFC	but the funny thing is that in Israel, they are not murdering homosexuals like the arabs do	Apr 14 09:17
schestowitz	One exploits others sometimes.	Apr 14 09:17
DaemonFC	or like the Christians want to	Apr 14 09:17
schestowitz	People are not as stupid as the imperialists need to believe	Apr 14 09:18
DaemonFC	they have equal rights to anyone else	Apr 14 09:18
schestowitz	The Indian troops that Britain recruited too turned against them	Apr 14 09:18
DaemonFC	so I’d say if any of them, I like the Jews more	Apr 14 09:18
schestowitz	Because they knew they were being misued and exploited	Apr 14 09:18
kentma	DaemonFC: I understand what you’re driving at, and have considerable sympathy with your view. But I would point out that both christianity and islam share one very important thing, that is, that they are both made of and for people. It’s the people who are the problem, where there are problems.	Apr 14 09:18
schestowitz	DaemonFC: don’t mix religion with groups	Apr 14 09:19
kentma	I suspect that you have a general objection to authoritarian power structures, and overall, I tend to share your objection.	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	Think of tech	Apr 14 09:19
DaemonFC	kentma: The Nazis and the Muslims had one thing in common, they wanted to kill all Jews and all homosexuals	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	The ‘Microsoft sect’	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	It’s not a religion	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	But it is like one	Apr 14 09:19
DaemonFC	that’s why the Nazis got along with the Muslims so well during the war	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	Cause they share vested interests	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	Same with FOSS to an extent	Apr 14 09:19
schestowitz	Apple and fanboiz	Apr 14 09:19
kentma	DaemonFC: Okay, but nazi != german, and I’m 100% certain that not all Muslims want to kill anyone at all.	Apr 14 09:19
DaemonFC	but had the Axis won either WW1 or WW2, the fascists and the Muslims would have turned on each other	Apr 14 09:20
schestowitz	Islam is not violent	Apr 14 09:20
schestowitz	There are billions of Muslims	Apr 14 09:20
DaemonFC	it was an alliance of convenience	Apr 14 09:20
schestowitz	A tiny minority is shown on Fox news for example	Apr 14 09:20
schestowitz	I have Arab friends and it’s insulting that they are characterise just to promote (party) lines	Apr 14 09:20
schestowitz	If you treat them badly, how can you expect them not to behave reciprocally?	Apr 14 09:21
DaemonFC	schestowitz: There’s a US Congressman from here (Indiana) who is a Muslim and has co-sponsored gay rights bills, but I’m sure most Muslims would kill HIM	Apr 14 09:21
DaemonFC	just for that	Apr 14 09:21
kentma	DaemonFC: there were lots of alliances of convenience in WW2, including UK with Russia, UK with China etc. etc.	Apr 14 09:21
schestowitz	DaemonFC: Christians too	Apr 14 09:22
DaemonFC	I really feel like we lost World War 2 as soon as we provoked the Japanese	Apr 14 09:22
schestowitz	Adherence to religion in general	Apr 14 09:22
DaemonFC	even though we technically won	Apr 14 09:22
kentma	DaemonFC: there are a lot of muslims around, and whilst a few might well be violent, I’m quite sure that most are not, towards anyone.	Apr 14 09:22
DaemonFC	they were at war with the Communist forces in China	Apr 14 09:22
DaemonFC	so had we not provoked them maybe they would have solved that problem	Apr 14 09:22
schestowitz	What China does by the way is not very different from te rest of the world today	Apr 14 09:23
kentma	DaemonFC: okay, but I think you should consider who “they” are in these situations. Even in ww2, very few countries were affected completely.	Apr 14 09:23
schestowitz	They just hide it less	Apr 14 09:23
schestowitz	media control = corporate control vs walls of censorship	Apr 14 09:23
schestowitz	Snoops and centralised databases (UK) versus eavesdropping in China	Apr 14 09:23
DaemonFC	well, when I say that a religion is violent, 10% of them may not be	Apr 14 09:23
DaemonFC	but on the whole, most are	Apr 14 09:24
kentma	The US has just announced the closure of its global ring of torture centres, for example.	Apr 14 09:24
schestowitz	Suppression of speech versus implicit censorship	Apr 14 09:24
DaemonFC	so while there may be non-radical factions, that does not excuse the group	Apr 14 09:24
schestowitz	They block” democracy”, whereas people here PRETEND to have it	Apr 14 09:24
schestowitz	kentma: maybe there was one here in Manc	Apr 14 09:24
schestowitz	They have some interrogation cells (secret) in US airports	Apr 14 09:25
kentma	schestowitz: gosh, scary thought.	Apr 14 09:25
DaemonFC	you can’t hate a group of people and instill that hate, then try to distance yourself when your followers pick up knives and swords and guns and bombs	Apr 14 09:25
DaemonFC	and go kill the people you taught them how to hate	Apr 14 09:25
schestowitz	kentma: not next door to Business Class Lounge: -)	Apr 14 09:25
kentma	DaemonFC: most muslims are just not like that, though. There are clearly some, without doubt, but there are some people in almost any grouping who are disaffected in some way, and can become violent.	Apr 14 09:25
DaemonFC	that’s pretty much what Islam and Christianity are, when their followers act on that hate, the group disavows it	Apr 14 09:26
schestowitz	DaemonFC: better a knife than hbomb	Apr 14 09:26
kentma	schestowitz: I always wondered what the screams were whilst sitting in the loung at Heathrow - I though it was just the catering staff testing the aeroplane food	Apr 14 09:26
schestowitz	The US is said to have spent $5tr on nuclear programmers in recent years. I couldn’t verify the fact (from Professor emeritus)	Apr 14 09:26
DaemonFC	The acts of Christian and Muslim atrocities are kind of the equal and opposite of the Nazi prison guards who “just followed orders”	Apr 14 09:27
kentma	lounge, I mena.	Apr 14 09:27
kentma	mean. Arggh!	Apr 14 09:27
kentma	DaemonFC: there is no excusing them – about that I agree 100%, however, how many germans were Nazis?	Apr 14 09:27
DaemonFC	“I just said they are an affront to God and they’re filthy and disgusting, THEY went and blew them up, I didn’t specifically SAY to do THAT”	Apr 14 09:27
schestowitz	kentma: LOL I actually like food on planes	Apr 14 09:27
DaemonFC	that’s what preachers and clerics say	Apr 14 09:28
DaemonFC	right after that shit goes down	Apr 14 09:28
*magentar (n=magentar@swla509.WLAN.Uni-Marburg.DE) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 09:28
DaemonFC		Apr 14 09:28
kentma	DaemonFC: there are clearly some radical preacher types who are dangerous and objectionable, and clearly deliberately trying to cause problems.	Apr 14 09:28
schestowitz	Hungarian government boosts open sauce < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire… >	Apr 14 09:29
schestowitz	kentma: Galloway?	Apr 14 09:29
DaemonFC	The preachers that say that are like the Nazis in the Nuremburg trials if they had said “We just said that your Jewish neighbors are greedy and covetous and stealing all your shit, and the people under our command went and shot them”	Apr 14 09:29
kentma	schestowitz: oh yeah, MP for Bagdad central	Apr 14 09:29
schestowitz	I like the attitude of this guy:	Apr 14 09:30
schestowitz	Software	Apr 14 09:30
schestowitz	Hungarian government boosts open sauce	Apr 14 09:30
DaemonFC	How many people would go for that line THEN?	Apr 14 09:30
schestowitz	Oops. I like the attitude of this guy: http://www.youtube.com/results…	Apr 14 09:30
MinceR	geekings	Apr 14 09:30
kentma	DaemonFC: A lot of people are easily led, for sure. I don’t know how much psychology you’ve studied, but you should look at the “stanford prison experiment” – it’s quite fascinating, and shows how this sort of thing works.	Apr 14 09:31
schestowitz	The MPAA is committing crimes now: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire…	Apr 14 09:31
kentma	DaemonFC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sta…	Apr 14 09:31
schestowitz	kentma: that experiment is on YouTube BTW	Apr 14 09:32
DaemonFC	kentma: I’ve seen that	Apr 14 09:32
kentma	schestowitz: really? I did subsid psychology as part of my degree, this was one thing we looked at. It’s quite terrifying, really.	Apr 14 09:32
DaemonFC	that’s also too unethical to be a “scientific” experiment	Apr 14 09:32
kentma	DaemonFC: ah, okay, then you know…	Apr 14 09:32
kentma	DaemonFC: unethical? Not sure I see that.	Apr 14 09:32
schestowitz	I notice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford…	Apr 14 09:33
DaemonFC	yes	Apr 14 09:33
schestowitz	kentma: mind is stil primitive	Apr 14 09:33
schestowitz	Inherent animal instricts can erupt	Apr 14 09:33
schestowitz	*instincts	Apr 14 09:33
kentma	schestowitz: social pressures are very strong – we’re still monkeys, deep down.	Apr 14 09:33
kentma	or apes or something.	Apr 14 09:34
kentma	something Darwin said, anyway	Apr 14 09:34
schestowitz	Freud too	Apr 14 09:34
ushimitsudoki	that’s also too unethical to be a “scientific” experiment <- this makes no sense	Apr 14 09:34
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: yes, so we learn from them	Apr 14 09:34
ushimitsudoki	exactly. ethics are a consideration independent of the validity of the experiment.	Apr 14 09:35
ushimitsudoki	not to say i support un-ethical experiments or anything. just saying that the ethics of an experiments doesn’t affect it’s validity.	Apr 14 09:35
schestowitz	Scientology meets science channels: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/…	Apr 14 09:36
kentma	ushimitsudoki: I agree.	Apr 14 09:36
kentma	ushimitsudoki: this is one area where people find science rather scary, that it’s conclusions and actions are purely based on rational consideration, independent of any moral framework. A very large number of “scifi-horror” stories are based on this perceived gap. Perhaps the first was Bram Stoker’s Dracula.	Apr 14 09:37
kentma	Even Grimm’s Faery Tales follow similar paths, though.	Apr 14 09:38
schestowitz	Microsoft is usually PAYING to sign ad deals and then issues press releases. Digg is a good example. Digg is declining rapidly… let it rot with MSN..	Apr 14 09:39
ushimitsudoki	kentma: i agree; and I think ethics are important. I just bristle at the idea that ethical or moral “truths” can affect scientific “truths”. down that path lies superstition and dogma, as you rightly point to (“There are some things man is not meant to know”, etc.)	Apr 14 09:39
schestowitz	It probably went wrong because of spammers and competition	Apr 14 09:39
schestowitz	kentma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H…	Apr 14 09:40
schestowitz	“Microsoft’s sales of new software have taken a hefty hit from the economic downturn..”	Apr 14 09:43
schestowitz	Report due soon.	Apr 14 09:43
schestowitz	Q1	Apr 14 09:43
*tacone (n=tacone@93-32-186-60.ip34.fastwebnet.it) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 09:43
kentma	schestowitz: room 101 was a terrifying idea. I re-read 1984 recently, it’s an amazing book. My imagination does a better job than most films, to be honest:-)	Apr 14 09:44
kentma	ushimitsudoki: I agree – superstition rapidly becomes dogma, and dogma is used for suppression of thinking. It’s a nasty cycle.	Apr 14 09:46
kentma	Incidentally, the police broke up a demonstration at a power plant before it happened today. This is very 1984 – we have thought police in action, it seems.	Apr 14 09:47
*zer0c00l (n=root@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 09:49
DaemonFC	Microsoft took the Halo trial version down	Apr 14 09:55
DaemonFC	Download.com still has it, heh	Apr 14 09:56
schestowitz	I’ve just done a quick summary of Microsoft’s decline: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…	Apr 14 09:56
schestowitz	zer0c00l: watch out for Infosys	Apr 14 09:56
schestowitz	Maybe they’ll wake up on time and harness Free software	Apr 14 09:56
schestowitz	kentma: yes, put the characters of your choice in.	Apr 14 09:57
*zer0c00l looks		Apr 14 09:57
schestowitz	How would a girl feel watching a chap? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v… It would be harder to relate	Apr 14 09:57
DaemonFC	hmmm, anyone know if the Halo 2 XP patch works for Wine?	Apr 14 09:58
DaemonFC	hmmmmmm,	Apr 14 09:58
schestowitz	kentma: they spy on E-mail for this. Also in activists/groups	Apr 14 09:58
schestowitz	Search for something like “protest” or <venue_name>	Apr 14 09:58
schestowitz	kentma: did you know about the US base in Yorkshire	Apr 14 09:59
DaemonFC	schestowitz: How do you like that?	Apr 14 09:59
schestowitz	Turns out they have been keeping copies of mail for quite some time. UK mail.	Apr 14 09:59
DaemonFC	Microsoft tried saying all those games needed Vista	Apr 14 09:59
DaemonFC	and they were hacked to pieces and running on 2000 and XP	Apr 14 09:59
DaemonFC	within days	Apr 14 09:59
schestowitz	Bull.	Apr 14 09:59
schestowitz	Pressure	Apr 14 09:59
schestowitz	They still support w2k	Apr 14 09:59
DaemonFC	schestowitz: C&C 3: Tiberium Wars REQUIRES Vista	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	You can take the horse to water, can’t make it drink	Apr 14 10:00
DaemonFC	but there’s an unofficial patch	Apr 14 10:00
DaemonFC	that lets it work on XP and 2K as well	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	Of course	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	Old news	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	2007ish	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	They sometimes use some INI file	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	Silly artificial obstructions	Apr 14 10:00
DaemonFC	no, they had to modify the EXE	Apr 14 10:00
schestowitz	Oh	Apr 14 10:00
DaemonFC	it was making bogus checks for Vista kernel functionality the game doesn’t use	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	I can look up examples I gathered	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	It was almost 2 years ago	Apr 14 10:01
DaemonFC	just to make sure it was really on Vista	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	Found in Digg IIRC	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	It’s like “exclusives”	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	Which means “secrew the customers”	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	Kickbacks to promote certain choice through restriction thereof	Apr 14 10:01
schestowitz	It should really be prohibited	Apr 14 10:01
DaemonFC	They were desperate to sell Vista so they made perfectly 2000/XP compatible software not allow you to run it on 2000/XP	Apr 14 10:02
DaemonFC	and paid their partners to do it too	Apr 14 10:02
schestowitz	Imagine if Renault signed a deal that said only their cars are allowed to enter Alton Park	Apr 14 10:02
schestowitz	DaemonFC: yes, that ought to have them fined	Apr 14 10:02
schestowitz	It’s a h/w upgrade cartel	Apr 14 10:03
DaemonFC	schestowitz: If they were actually using some killer new feature of Vista to make their game better, I could understand that	Apr 14 10:03
DaemonFC	but this is just holding new software hostage	Apr 14 10:03
DaemonFC	to force upgrades	Apr 14 10:03
DaemonFC	I actually tried the DirectX 10 enhanced features of a lot of those games, that’s only available on Vista, like Crysis, it has a XP mode and a Vista mode	Apr 14 10:04
DaemonFC	the Enhanced mode doesn’t look a lot better but it is much slower	Apr 14 10:04
schestowitz	DX10 can work on XP too	Apr 14 10:05
DaemonFC	Why would you want to?	Apr 14 10:05
DaemonFC	I turned the enhanced features off on Vista	Apr 14 10:05
schestowitz	But Microsoft artificially made upgrade differentiator.	Apr 14 10:05
DaemonFC	cause they were such a performance drag	Apr 14 10:05
schestowitz	DaemonFC: I only used DX many years back as a teenager.	Apr 14 10:05
schestowitz	DX is a Windows/games thing	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	Hollywood uses OpenGL	Apr 14 10:06
DaemonFC	I remember when 3dfx stopped updating their drivers and I had JUST bought a Voodoo 5 5500 for Windows Me	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	In fact, anything but the Wingame world is apathetic t/w DX	Apr 14 10:06
zer0c00l	“Microsoft’s ASP.NET MVC is an extension built on the core of ASP.NET that brings some of the popular practices and ease of development that were popularized by Ruby on Rails and Django to the .NET developers.” http://tirania.org/bl…	Apr 14 10:06
DaemonFC	and DirectX 7 destroyed their driver	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	zer0c00l: yes, Microsoft employees try to deceive us	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	They are desparate	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	So many years went by and .NET never won	Apr 14 10:06
schestowitz	Now we have Python, PHP, Java as Free software…	Apr 14 10:07
DaemonFC	so the 3dfx users built a website with hacked drivers that worked well enough to use on ME/2000/XP	Apr 14 10:07
schestowitz	So Miguel and other Microsoft employees try to change this	Apr 14 10:07
DaemonFC	not well, but they worked	Apr 14 10:07
schestowitz	Same story with Windows Mobile	Apr 14 10:07
schestowitz	Maybe billions in losses so far and over a decade later it’s still nowhere	Apr 14 10:07
schestowitz	Some say 5%	Apr 14 10:07
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I wish more of these companies would release their stuff as GPL or something before selling or going bankrupt	Apr 14 10:08
DaemonFC	Glide was pretty superior to DirectX or OpenGL for games	Apr 14 10:08
schestowitz	Maybe they sell the so-called “IP” to someone	Apr 14 10:08
schestowitz	“IP”=code	Apr 14 10:08
schestowitz	Copyright	Apr 14 10:09
DaemonFC	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…	Apr 14 10:09
DaemonFC	memories sigh	Apr 14 10:09
schestowitz	new distro: About ULTILEX < http://ultilex.linux-bg.org/ >	Apr 14 10:09
DaemonFC	Glidos can still wrap DirectX and let you play Glide games by piping everything to DirectX	Apr 14 10:10
DaemonFC	it works in Wine, but not well	Apr 14 10:10
schestowitz	OBAMAA is on a roll this year: Obama Taps 5th RIAA Lawyer to Justice Dept. < http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke… >	Apr 14 10:10
schestowitz	Update: VirtualBox 2.2.0 < http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com… >	Apr 14 10:12
DaemonFC	how much you figure he got in campaign money?	Apr 14 10:12
schestowitz	Microsoft Employees Demonstrate Fondness For Google < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/… >	Apr 14 10:12
DaemonFC	Not that I doubt they also gave campaign money to McCain	Apr 14 10:12
DaemonFC	these special interests fund both sides	Apr 14 10:12
DaemonFC	and threaten to cut off whoever defies them	Apr 14 10:13
schestowitz	Google market cap: 119.22B	Apr 14 10:13
schestowitz	DaemonFC: Biden more likely	Apr 14 10:13
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Imitation is the sincerest flattery	Apr 14 10:13
DaemonFC	Windows live is being seriously whored in Windows 7	Apr 14 10:13
schestowitz	People have this feeling that they own Obama	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	Like he’s there puppy to save them from McBush	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	*their	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	“Anything but Bush” is not good	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	It’s just “not as bad”	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	DaemonFC: yes, I heard about Microsoft pimping Live in Vista7	Apr 14 10:14
schestowitz	Regulators watch this closely	Apr 14 10:15
schestowitz	And VIsta7 will only be sold with new PCs, i.e. very little	Apr 14 10:15
DaemonFC	Well, then it becomes a bidding platform	Apr 14 10:15
schestowitz	Microsoft already says it will offer DOWNGRADE RIGHTS for Vista7	Apr 14 10:15
schestowitz	It knows there will be trouble even a year ahead	Apr 14 10:15
DaemonFC	Googles pays off HP or Dell to use Google Desktop and Google Search in IE	Apr 14 10:15
schestowitz	MSFT’s income might not be as bad this Q because of layoffs and closed down divisions	Apr 14 10:16
DaemonFC	I don’t agree with letting other things hook into the Search Applet	Apr 14 10:16
DaemonFC	just means spyware and low quality crap can piggyback in	Apr 14 10:16
schestowitz	The market is also afloat on borrowed/printed money at the moment	Apr 14 10:16
schestowitz	Dow back above 8000pts because of the illusions	Apr 14 10:17
DaemonFC	when you install DivX for example, you now have Google Search clobber Windows Search	Apr 14 10:17
DaemonFC	cause it piggybacked in	Apr 14 10:17
schestowitz	Good for Wall Street (the looting)	Apr 14 10:17
DaemonFC	just like spyware	Apr 14 10:17
schestowitz	Jobs keep being eliminated nonetheless, just not in Connecticut maybe	Apr 14 10:17
DaemonFC	schestowitz: And now this gives spyware another hook into Windows	Apr 14 10:18
DaemonFC	so maybe Porno Search replaces Windows Search	Apr 14 10:18
DaemonFC	when you get a spyware infection	Apr 14 10:18
schestowitz	Vista7 scares me	Apr 14 10:18
schestowitz	I never cruised Vista except one time… at the airport	Apr 14 10:18
DaemonFC	That’s not a Microsoft fault	Apr 14 10:18
schestowitz	They had a test machine next to two macs	Apr 14 10:18
DaemonFC	that’s due to misplaced government regulation	Apr 14 10:18
schestowitz	Vista creeps me as a platform that you’d register	Apr 14 10:19
DaemonFC	Nobody is forcing APple to let Google clobber Finder	Apr 14 10:19
DaemonFC	you get what I mean?	Apr 14 10:19
schestowitz	Yes	Apr 14 10:19
schestowitz	Apple is no model	Apr 14 10:19
DaemonFC	No, I mean the Windows search applet should NOT be replaceable	Apr 14 10:19
DaemonFC	Just as the Mac one shouldn’t be either	Apr 14 10:20
DaemonFC	cause you get Google and spyware that replaces it with little or no user consent	Apr 14 10:20
DaemonFC	and this is all the fault of the EU	Apr 14 10:20
DaemonFC	and the Department of Justice	Apr 14 10:20
DaemonFC	if they want to regulate something, why not make IE an optional program?	Apr 14 10:21
DaemonFC	while they’re at it, Safari should be optional on the Mac	Apr 14 10:21
schestowitz	http://www.itwire.com/co… “That announcement stated that, starting “on or about the third week of April” users who are still running either IE6 or IE7 on Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2003, or Windows Server 2008 “will get will get a notification through Automatic Update about IE8.”"	Apr 14 10:21
DaemonFC	Andwhy didn’t they investigate Apple for having secret APIs only Safari can use?	Apr 14 10:21
DaemonFC	Why did Mozilla have to reverse engineer Mac OS?	Apr 14 10:22
DaemonFC	Why is that not a scandal?	Apr 14 10:22
schestowitz	Apple has sympathy	Apr 14 10:22
schestowitz	It hasn’t committed quite the same type of crimes	Apr 14 10:22
schestowitz	Like lawsuits by proxy	Apr 14 10:22
schestowitz	Blackmail	Apr 14 10:22
schestowitz	bribes	Apr 14 10:22
DaemonFC	IF you notice Firefox 3 suddenly acting native and performing better than version 2?	Apr 14 10:23
schestowitz	It did however commit financial fraud on the face of it, like MSFT	Apr 14 10:23
DaemonFC	It’s cause they’re now using the same secret APIs that Safari uses	Apr 14 10:23
schestowitz	DaemonFC: FF3 is less stable for me than FF2	Apr 14 10:23
schestowitz	But a lot faster	Apr 14 10:23
schestowitz	FF2 could run for 100s of hours without crashes	Apr 14 10:23
DaemonFC	I like Linux mostly because there aren’t any dirty tricks artificially crippling one program to make the other look better	Apr 14 10:24
DaemonFC	Microsoft and Apple do that	Apr 14 10:24
DaemonFC	constantly	Apr 14 10:24
schestowitz	For ‘security’	Apr 14 10:25
DaemonFC	Microsoft and Apple remind me of Richard Nixon’s Dirty Tricks Squad	Apr 14 10:25
schestowitz	of self	Apr 14 10:25
DaemonFC		Apr 14 10:25
DaemonFC	also	Apr 14 10:25
DaemonFC	as of yesterdays updates	Apr 14 10:26
DaemonFC	Ubuntu no longer calls itself development branch at the terminal	Apr 14 10:26
DaemonFC	just Ubuntu Jaunty	Apr 14 10:26
DaemonFC	hmmm	Apr 14 10:26
schestowitz	Carlo Piana explains controversial MXM Public License proposal to OSI < http://piana.eu/napoleon_hats >	Apr 14 10:26
DaemonFC	SGI has sent in 70 XFS patches on the 2.6.30 Linux dev branch so far	Apr 14 10:30
DaemonFC	that’s more than I’ve seen in that last 2 years	Apr 14 10:30
DaemonFC	mostly cleanups, small bug fixes, some performance patches	Apr 14 10:31
DaemonFC	the new driver is actually looking pretty good	Apr 14 10:34
schestowitz	“Of course, while they may be a tad too much for some people, the BN people at least are proactive. Their regular links are the best of any FLOSS sites.” That’s us http://www.l2admin.com/linux/10-indivi…	Apr 14 10:38
schestowitz	SGI is no more	Apr 14 10:38
schestowitz	Rackable	Apr 14 10:38
schestowitz	Pushed into a rack of history	Apr 14 10:39
DaemonFC	schestowitz: They still have some SGI people working on XFS	Apr 14 10:40
DaemonFC	and a lot of former employees doing it as part of their new job or as a hobby	Apr 14 10:40
DaemonFC	Thats the nice thing about GPL, XFS can live on without SGI	Apr 14 10:40
schestowitz	WordPress	Apr 14 10:41
schestowitz	GPL is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?	Apr 14 10:41
schestowitz	You know where WordPress came from…?	Apr 14 10:41
*magentar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Apr 14 10:41
DaemonFC	yeah, it means that projects can and do outlive the company that made them	Apr 14 10:41
DaemonFC	no clue really	Apr 14 10:41
schestowitz	A French guy who apparently went broke (Michele, b2). Now it’s a de facto blog platform and sometimes CMS too	Apr 14 10:41
DaemonFC	SGI released a lot of their unfinished XFS work back in December when they laid off most of their XFS team	Apr 14 10:42
schestowitz	WordPress is now a company (Automattic) with many millions behind it and millions of sites. The press does not cover this success strory enough	Apr 14 10:42
schestowitz	The same is said about Red Hat	Apr 14 10:42
DaemonFC	so I’d imagine this is why we’re seeing a bunch of stuff landing all at once	Apr 14 10:43
DaemonFC	other people are finishing the work SGI had	Apr 14 10:43
schestowitz	It powers a lot of the world’s computers yet people hardly even recognise the name (except technies)	Apr 14 10:43
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 10:43
DaemonFC	Red Hat is skittish about XFS	Apr 14 10:43
schestowitz	With every demise of a GPL project there’s a chance to become a project leader	Apr 14 10:43
DaemonFC	if they add it they have to support it	Apr 14 10:43
schestowitz	Rename, fork, restart	Apr 14 10:43
schestowitz	Joomla!~	Apr 14 10:43
DaemonFC	but their lead file system engineer is a former SGI employee	Apr 14 10:44
DaemonFC	who maintains XFS for Fedora	Apr 14 10:44
DaemonFC	also, Rackable got all of SGI’s former customers who still use XFS and will for years	Apr 14 10:45
DaemonFC	so I don’t think it will go away soon	Apr 14 10:45
DaemonFC	XFS became a white elephant because Linux developers have kind of a not invented here attitude	Apr 14 10:45
DaemonFC	Ext4 merely duplicates most of what XFS already had from when it was ported to Linux 8 years ago	Apr 14 10:46
oiaohm	Ext4 does not have the one glitch of XFS ie deleting of files.	Apr 14 10:46
schestowitz	http://blogs.computerworld.com/… Firefox wins because of DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 (extensions).	Apr 14 10:46
schestowitz	Which one does IBM fund (FS)	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	you mean lots of little files?	Apr 14 10:47
oiaohm	Yep	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	the performance hitch on that	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	yeah	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	you can improve that by tweaking the mount options in fstab	Apr 14 10:47
oiaohm	You think about developers building kernels all the time.	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	but it’s a well known area of not so good performance	Apr 14 10:47
oiaohm	Bias comes party from usage.	Apr 14 10:47
DaemonFC	yeah, that’s really the only people that will even notice that problem	Apr 14 10:48
DaemonFC	is people deleting lots of little .c and .h files	Apr 14 10:48
DaemonFC		Apr 14 10:48
DaemonFC	like a kernel source directory	Apr 14 10:48
oiaohm	Yep the very people who are making the decide.	Apr 14 10:48
DaemonFC	XFS hauls ass on most everything else though	Apr 14 10:48
oiaohm	Are the ones effected by the one annony XFS defect.	Apr 14 10:48
oiaohm	Pure bad luck for XFS reallly.	Apr 14 10:49
schestowitz	oiaohm: you got a comment: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/13…	Apr 14 10:49
oiaohm	If the defect was on extreamly large files developed would have not noticed.	Apr 14 10:49
DaemonFC	I don’t mind it just cause if it takes me a minute extra to build a kernel	Apr 14 10:50
DaemonFC	and XFS is so much faster for everything else I do	Apr 14 10:50
DaemonFC	I still end up ahead	Apr 14 10:50
oiaohm	That is the problem.	Apr 14 10:50
oiaohm	Hopefully in time all the best features of all filesystems end up in one.	Apr 14 10:50
schestowitz	Gavin Clarke is still advertising Microsoft in El Reg: “Microsoft: have it your way on IE 8″	Apr 14 10:53
schestowitz	It’s like another Ina Fried, but this guy also attacks the opposition	Apr 14 10:53
schestowitz	Though the Friedshill does this too, esp. against Linux and APple	Apr 14 10:53
oiaohm	I will leave that. Really don’t want to have to dig into oldest greek language.	Apr 14 10:53
oiaohm	They are some of the first translation errors.	Apr 14 10:54
schestowitz	oiaohm: yes, I guess it’s what happens when controversial issues are discussed here.	Apr 14 10:58
schestowitz	Windows dedicated site to try Linux! < http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/04/… > Even the MSFTers look for alternatives.	Apr 14 11:00
schestowitz	Is the patents (intellectual monopoly) era reaching its end? http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009…	Apr 14 11:05
schestowitz	http://twitter.com/jamie_love/… “IMO, Apple sees Linux as desktop threat.”	Apr 14 11:09
schestowitz	Psystar steers off Mac OS X and supports Linux. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Psys…	Apr 14 11:12
PetoKraus	hmm interesting	Apr 14 11:22
DaemonFC	schestowitz: http://img135.imageshack.us…	Apr 14 11:22
DaemonFC	lol	Apr 14 11:22
PetoKraus	i’m just reading the /. article on the new M$FT €9M fine	Apr 14 11:22
PetoKraus	it’s interesting indeed.	Apr 14 11:23
schestowitz	Part of a pattern	Apr 14 11:24
PetoKraus	it’s actually one of the first articles where the comments help to understand the topic	Apr 14 11:25
schestowitz	DE is ahead of the curve	Apr 14 11:25
PetoKraus	the article and summary are totally retarded	Apr 14 11:25
schestowitz	also fined sco	Apr 14 11:25
schestowitz	DaemonFC: heh.	Apr 14 11:26
schestowitz	linkworthy	Apr 14 11:26
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I went to Opera’s IRC room to mention some Linux bugs	Apr 14 11:27
DaemonFC	and one of their employees said he didn’t care cause he doesn’t use Linux	Apr 14 11:27
DaemonFC	I asked him why they ported the damned thing if they didn’t care it had bugs	Apr 14 11:28
DaemonFC		Apr 14 11:28
schestowitz	http://www.dedoimedo.com/compu… (Expanding Linux desktop market)	Apr 14 11:29
schestowitz	But some Opera developers use Linux	Apr 14 11:30
schestowitz	They say they like it	Apr 14 11:30
schestowitz	Depends who you ask	Apr 14 11:30
DaemonFC	hmmm	Apr 14 11:31
DaemonFC	they still use QT3	Apr 14 11:31
DaemonFC	I just grabbed the latest Opera 10 build	Apr 14 11:31
PetoKraus	well	Apr 14 11:34
PetoKraus	there’s quite a lot of apps which don’t work with opera	Apr 14 11:34
DaemonFC	seems like it comes in halfway between IE 8 and Firefox on Sunspider	Apr 14 11:35
DaemonFC	twice as fast as IE but still twice as slow as Firefox 3.0.8	Apr 14 11:35
PetoKraus	enter midori	Apr 14 11:36
PetoKraus		Apr 14 11:36
PetoKraus	that’s blazing fast	Apr 14 11:36
PetoKraus	i’d use it, if only it tracked my gtk theme properly	Apr 14 11:36
DaemonFC	Opera still seems faster than Firefox on other things	Apr 14 11:38
DaemonFC	I think overall Opera is faster	Apr 14 11:38
DaemonFC	but Firefox is better on scripts	Apr 14 11:38
PetoKraus	and it’s FOSS	Apr 14 11:38
PetoKraus		Apr 14 11:38
schestowitz	Microsoft and Apple try to pretend Linux does not exist (reduce visibility): http://www.pcmag.com/article2/…	Apr 14 11:39
schestowitz	PCLinuxOS 2009.1 receives nothing but rave reviews. The latest: http://penguiniplanetblog.blogspot.com…	Apr 14 11:40
schestowitz	http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar… Linux Easter egg: ”I admit that a couple of these examples — one in Linux and one in a Telnet session — aren’t technically Easter eggs. But I think these little treats are pretty cool so I put them all in my egg basket to share with you.”	Apr 14 11:42
*DaemonFC has quit (“Windows is like playing Russian Roulette with six loaded chambers.”)		Apr 14 11:46
schestowitz	3 audio-oriented distros are said to be blobs-free. http://www.gnu.org/distros/…	Apr 14 11:46
schestowitz	http://techdirt.com/articles/200… (Current Blames Economy For No IPO… But, Lack Of Profitability May Have Been A Bigger Issue)	Apr 14 11:48
*magentar (n=magentar@94.79.158.48) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 11:48
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 11:50
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 11:52
*iwmw (n=iwmw@intech.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 11:53
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 11:53
*zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 11:56
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 11:57
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 11:59
schestowitz	“The Phoronix Test Suite is our GPLv3…” well done, Michael	Apr 14 12:01
schestowitz	happy (belated) Easter	Apr 14 12:02
DaemonFC	Phoronix botched their file system comparison	Apr 14 12:04
DaemonFC	and interpreted Bonnie++ results wrong	Apr 14 12:04
DaemonFC	they claim that Ext3 was doing things that it’s not even capable of	Apr 14 12:04
DaemonFC	I don’t think it was intentional, I’m just not sure they know what they’re doing	Apr 14 12:05
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 12:05
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 12:05
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 12:06
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 12:06
schestowitz	DaemonFC: he does know	Apr 14 12:09
schestowitz	And he doesn’t intend to mislead	Apr 14 12:09
schestowitz	He’s very apathetic wrt Microsoft and other issues we talk about.	Apr 14 12:09
*Ap0g33 (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52ea211b4d3dc1cc) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 12:12
*Ap0g33 (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52ea211b4d3dc1cc) has left #boycottnovell		Apr 14 12:12
DaemonFC	I didn’t mean the results favored MS	Apr 14 12:12
DaemonFC	It just showed Ext4 as having superpowers it does not possess B-)	Apr 14 12:12
DaemonFC	performance-wise, XFS and Ext4 are both better at certain things, but it’s never enough one way or another that you have a clear advantage with one or the other	Apr 14 12:13
DaemonFC	but they are both much better than Ext3 and XFS is much more debugged and has better file system tools	Apr 14 12:14
oiaohm	For some things.	Apr 14 12:15
DaemonFC	It will take a radical change in concepts of how fiel systems should behave to get much better than XFS or Ext4	Apr 14 12:15
oiaohm	There are downsides in some of XFS tools.	Apr 14 12:15
DaemonFC	which is coming	Apr 14 12:15
oiaohm	Ext4 is end of line.	Apr 14 12:15
DaemonFC	oiaohm: I kind of liked UFS2′s Soft Updates	Apr 14 12:16
DaemonFC	allows it to not have to lug around a journal	Apr 14 12:16
DaemonFC	and it’s still pretty much as reliable	Apr 14 12:16
oiaohm	XFS does have the structures that with work it could be reformed.	Apr 14 12:16
oiaohm	Of course not disk compadible.	Apr 14 12:16
schestowitz	DaemonFC: why don’t you tell him?	Apr 14 12:16
DaemonFC	well, SGI wanted to keep it on-disk compatible with IRIX	Apr 14 12:16
oiaohm	Ext really run to its full end if life.	Apr 14 12:17
oiaohm	Design past rebuilding.	Apr 14 12:17
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Eric Sandeen already gave them a play by play of why they were incorrect, much more in-depth than I could, he’s the lead file system engineer at Red Hat	Apr 14 12:17
DaemonFC	and worked at SGI before that	Apr 14 12:17
DaemonFC	and they plugged it in the footnotes	Apr 14 12:17
schestowitz	PTS became de facto benchmark	Apr 14 12:17
DaemonFC	and left their incorrect benchmarks up!	Apr 14 12:18
schestowitz	Tell him to fix it. michael at michaellarabel.com	Apr 14 12:18
schestowitz	The issue is, if it’s not fixed it’ll be repeated and propagated	Apr 14 12:19
schestowitz	Same forumla, same code. Some companies use PTS internally.	Apr 14 12:19
DaemonFC	Ext3 has all around BLAH performance with everything, where other file systems seem to perform super well under certain loads, and die when you throw others at them	Apr 14 12:19
DaemonFC	Ext3 is mediocre at everything so it just become the accepted standard	Apr 14 12:19
DaemonFC	it creeks and clanks, but it does the just just well enough to never die off…..sounds familiar	Apr 14 12:22
schestowitz	DaemonFC: that screenshot of Hotmail is funny for 3 reasons	Apr 14 12:23
DaemonFC	meh, Sandeen’s reply to them sounded like he was kind of annoyed at having to explain that you’d need top end hardware to even do some of that stuff and Ext3 still isn’t capable even if you have it	Apr 14 12:23
DaemonFC	because no independent expert would ever really recommend Internet Explorer?	Apr 14 12:24
schestowitz	1) they annoy a Firefox users, saying “upgrade”, not “switch”; 2) They spam Hotmail users; 3) they bug Linux users with Win-only sw	Apr 14 12:24
DaemonFC	well, most Hotmail users use Windows	Apr 14 12:24
DaemonFC	most Windows users use IE	Apr 14 12:24
schestowitz	Most BN readers don;t	Apr 14 12:24
DaemonFC	Most Windows+IE users are used to spam and pop ups and crap	Apr 14 12:24
DaemonFC	and they’d lock Linux out of Hotmail, but they’d get sued	Apr 14 12:25
DaemonFC	B-)	Apr 14 12:25
schestowitz	KDE4 is said to have popups	Apr 14 12:25
schestowitz	Wierd notion that	Apr 14 12:25
schestowitz	*weird	Apr 14 12:25
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 12:29
schestowitz	Firefox 3.6 is Already Running on GNU/Linux < http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/04/in… >	Apr 14 12:48
oiaohm	Ext3 does have a performance spike in small file handling.	Apr 14 12:51
oiaohm	All filesystems have something they were ok at.	Apr 14 12:52
DaemonFC	well yeah, you can get Minefield at any point	Apr 14 12:57
DaemonFC	it’s just a binary build of the last day’s work	Apr 14 12:57
DaemonFC	but it will likely have problems	Apr 14 12:57
tacone	nice link	Apr 14 12:58
DaemonFC	they’re built with no human consideration	Apr 14 12:58
DaemonFC	they don’t have any of the mods to make them work better on Linux	Apr 14 12:58
DaemonFC	like the ones Debian uses	Apr 14 12:58
DaemonFC	and they are 32-bit only	Apr 14 12:58
*DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 13:00
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:00
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:12
zer0c00l	schestowitz, you saw my mail ?Funny windoze error message	Apr 14 13:13
schestowitz	Microsoft is up to no good again	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	bribing schools	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	To fight Linux	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	and!!!!	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	Calling it “Charity”	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	This company has got SOME nerve.	Apr 14 13:14
MinceR	so business as usual	Apr 14 13:14
schestowitz	This organised crime is fortunately reaching the end of its road	Apr 14 13:14
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:20
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:21
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:21
*zer0c00l goes back to sleep		Apr 14 13:22
*DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Apr 14 13:23
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:23
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?…	Apr 14 13:23
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell		Apr 14 13:23
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?… skip to 3:20	Apr 14 13:27
oiaohm	MS is starting to talk about a SP4 for XP	Apr 14 13:38
oiaohm	but not extending end of life.	Apr 14 13:38
MinceR	lol	Apr 14 13:42
schestowitz	Social security crisis: http://www.youtube.com/wat…	Apr 14 13:51
schestowitz	More on the economy. This is disturbing. Anyway, I’m off for a while… .youtube.com/watch?v= cziN3gt-hic&feature =PlayList&p=9C6B 8D9B8F705FBC&am p;index=14&playnext =3&playnext_f rom=PL	Apr 14 13:51
schestowitz	oiaohm: it says a lot about Vista7	Apr 14 13:52
schestowitz	aka XP2 RC2	Apr 14 13:52
oiaohm	It breaks MS live support policy.	Apr 14 13:55
oiaohm	5 years from the last service pack.	Apr 14 13:55
iwmw	lol, will xp sp4 include dx10?	Apr 14 13:57
schestowitz	drm	Apr 14 13:58
iwmw	aah, dx10 is ’bout drm	Apr 14 13:58
iwmw	no wonder i don’t have it installed	Apr 14 13:58
schestowitz	It would be nice if WinXP was called Win2001 to remind poeple what they use. Nandriva 2009.1 is out shortly.	Apr 14 13:59
iwmw	not so shortly, 2 weeks until the internal release i suspect	Apr 14 13:59
*iwmw is looking towards debian at home		Apr 14 14:00
oiaohm	Next generation viruses are going to give windows and anti-virus companies even more hell.	Apr 14 14:01
iwmw	anti-virus companies will only be glad	Apr 14 14:01
oiaohm	Really.	Apr 14 14:01
iwmw	the moar viruses the more threat	Apr 14 14:01
*kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Apr 14 14:02
oiaohm	As viruses become harder and harder to stop.	Apr 14 14:02
iwmw	the more panic	Apr 14 14:02
*kentma (n=user@host86-152-103-121.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 14:02
oiaohm	More disabling of there scanners.	Apr 14 14:02
iwmw	the more money for antiviruses	Apr 14 14:02
oiaohm	And updating at the same pace or faster than antivirus software.	Apr 14 14:02
schestowitz	bbl	Apr 14 14:02
oiaohm	Also anti-virus software has a hard limit.	Apr 14 14:02
oiaohm	There is only so many signatures you can scan for before you render machine useless.	Apr 14 14:03
*DaemonFC (n=null@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 14 14:04
iwmw	antiviruses should’ve already been moved to the semantic analysis domain	Apr 14 14:04
oiaohm	Viruses are mirroring the semantic methods.	Apr 14 14:05
oiaohm	As with all things in IT tech to prevent viruses can be used in reverse.	Apr 14 14:06
DaemonFC	Nothing really changes in Windows, if something does improve it’s because they needed better infrastructure for their DRM	Apr 14 14:06