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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 2nd, 2009 - Part 4



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schestowitzhttp://www.just-international.org/ar... "As the shock of the global credit crunch subsides, the next phase inevitably kicks-in: steeply rising unemployment and growing domestic political pressure for a return to protectionism. As the global economic hangover hits home, the world's nations, like a bunch of recalcitrant teenagers, sink into their morose, self-centred protectionist sulks. "Apr 02 17:35
schestowitzToreadorVampire: that's the power of vendor lockinApr 02 17:35
ToreadorVampireIn fact - it wasn't until I switched job roles/employers that I started getting involved in free software - mainly because I could use free software as a drop-in replacement without impacting others around meApr 02 17:36
ToreadorVampireschestowitz> Well - I can't feel like Microsoft had a hand in that - we as a school chose what was best for us - we did that without any word from Microsoft - and that was having solved all of the "vendor problems" - we had solutions for opening/working with MS Word docs and such (that the students would have created at home and brought into the school) ...Apr 02 17:37
ToreadorVampire... but a large-scale change like that was just not possible, and we found it very hard to form a strong argument for creating an experimental suite of Linux machines for a gradual changeApr 02 17:38
ToreadorVampireSince we were only a high school, and the level of IT we were teaching did not require the need for knowledge of non-MS systems - so it was impossible to convince the upper management that they should sign on the dotted line for thatApr 02 17:39
ToreadorVampireBut yeah ... maybe that will be revisited someday ... especially with WinVista/Win7 aroundApr 02 17:41
ToreadorVampireAnd maybe that school will eventually switchApr 02 17:41
ToreadorVampireIt's not just the teachers that need retraining - the IT support staff tooApr 02 17:41
ToreadorVampireAt the college where I used to work after that (where I first started playing with free software) the IT techs knew nothing about *nixApr 02 17:41
ToreadorVampireThe dba was the only guy that knew anything about itApr 02 17:42
schestowitzyes, the UK is well behind in that regardApr 02 17:44
schestowitzCompared to Brazil or GermanyApr 02 17:44
*schestowitz catches up with IRCApr 02 17:44
schestowitzGot distracted by: BBC Trust Says Licence Fee For Online TV Is Unclear http://www.paidcontent.co.uk/entry/419-...Apr 02 17:44
schestowitzFunny how TV licensing keeps bother people without a TV set. Guilty until cleared...Apr 02 17:45
schestowitzThere's no next life ;-)  < http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/...  > Second chance at LifeApr 02 17:47
ToreadorVampireYeah - that would be very difficult to police - especially since no special equipment required to watch video on PCApr 02 17:47
schestowitzThis one is strange.. Harvard P2P lawyer: file-swapping is fair use—no, really! <  http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/ne... >Apr 02 17:48
schestowitzToreadorVampire: online TV is not taxableApr 02 17:48
schestowitzA lot of it is peer-producedApr 02 17:49
ToreadorVampireOh yes, but I refer to things like BBC iPlayer etcApr 02 17:49
schestowitzThe idea of taxing CDs for MAFIAA, taxing TV for the Beeb  and others makes you wonder if the public will also start funding newspapers and brainwashApr 02 17:49
schestowitziPlayer was a saga of corruption involving Microsoft, so I won't touch itApr 02 17:50
schestowitzI hope YouTube and such services defeat itApr 02 17:50
schestowitziPlayer is not read-write, not peer-produced contentApr 02 17:50
schestowitzIt's content that's imposed from above, i.e. back to read-onluApr 02 17:50
ToreadorVampireWell, erm, yeah ... but we won't see that going away for a LONG time I don't think - perhaps not even in our lifetimesApr 02 17:51
ToreadorVampireIf media companies couldn't monetise the creation of big-budget productions then they would stop making themApr 02 17:52
ToreadorVampireAnd they monetise them by selling them to big broadcasters like TV networks and record companies and such ...Apr 02 17:53
ToreadorVampireUnless someone can come up with a business model where big-budget productions can be broadcast without need for television networks (and still justify their cost to produce) then that kind of stuff won't go awayApr 02 17:55
ToreadorVampireWe're up against change again of course - change of technology hitting business modelsApr 02 17:55
ToreadorVampireToday, the act of ripping a DVD video to hard disk and sharing it over the Internet is pretty much cost-freeApr 02 17:56
ToreadorVampireSo the price tags on legitimate channels of purchasing media are an artificial way of justifying the cost of making those productions ..Apr 02 17:57
ToreadorVampire... but nobody has come up with a non-artificial way of doing it yetApr 02 17:57
ToreadorVampireSome day we are going to hit a point where "information is free", all information - including music/video/everything - because the technology demands it - and things like DRM just plain don't workApr 02 17:58
ToreadorVampireBut oh well ...Apr 02 17:58
ToreadorVampireI'm interested to see where it goes - but I can't really campaign for/against things, because I can't suggest a viable alternative/solution to the problemApr 02 17:59
schestowitzIt's conceivable that big media will goApr 02 17:59
schestowitzIn our lifetimeApr 02 17:59
schestowitzDigital media and the net killed many thingsApr 02 17:59
schestowitzFor the betterApr 02 17:59
ToreadorVampireschestowitz> Mmm, I doubt it - the trends are in the opposite direction at the momentApr 02 17:59
schestowitzLike some paper publicationsApr 02 17:59
ToreadorVampireMovies are going bigger-budgetApr 02 17:59
ToreadorVampirePaper publications, yeah - they were doomedApr 02 18:00
ToreadorVampireBut for all of the Ryan vs Dorkman videos that appear, people are going to crave betterApr 02 18:00
schestowitzToreadorVampire: what is this trend?Apr 02 18:00
schestowitzOh, I see.Apr 02 18:00
schestowitzWell, bigger budget?Apr 02 18:00
schestowitzAre you sure?Apr 02 18:00
schestowitzSome people still go to cinemas to escape realityApr 02 18:01
schestowitzBut the media companies get poorerApr 02 18:01
ToreadorVampireschestowitz> Oh, it feels like it - I mean, I don't have numbers to back that up - but it feels that wayApr 02 18:01
schestowitzPeople turn to other video too.Apr 02 18:01
schestowitzThe numbers for 2009 won't back you, I thinkApr 02 18:01
schestowitzIn fact, MAFIAA fired many employeesApr 02 18:01
schestowitz20% I thinkApr 02 18:01
schestowitzBoth branches: MPAA and RIAAApr 02 18:01
ToreadorVampireHeh, the numbers for ANY company in 2009 won't back anyone :)Apr 02 18:02
schestowitzDigital media dies too BTWApr 02 18:02
schestowitzLike online papersApr 02 18:02
schestowitzSome new ones emergeApr 02 18:02
schestowitzToreadorVampire: yes, all is down, but people are stil left with time in their handsApr 02 18:02
ToreadorVampireAnd - people like actors do have skills that they should be paid to share, and better actors should be paid more ... so - mmm - I do think that "big media" will survive - just not in its current formApr 02 18:02
ToreadorVampireI think that what will change is that "things that are free in real terms" will eventually have to become free in their priceApr 02 18:04
ToreadorVampireBecause as long as media companies charge money for things that could have been produced/replicated freely, the system will fail to work ...Apr 02 18:04
ToreadorVampireAnd as much as they try to use DRM or lock-in or litigation to prevent that, "the population" will take the path of least resistanceApr 02 18:05
ToreadorVampireIt's what people have always doneApr 02 18:05
schestowitzPeer Producing Human Rights < http://irevolution.wordpress.com/20... >Apr 02 18:05
schestowitzSecond Life Lives Behind a Firewall < https://blogs.secondlife.com/community... >Apr 02 18:07
schestowitzThe OSI blog links to us quite extensively. That's flattering.Apr 02 18:12
schestowitzI've only just noticedApr 02 18:12
ToreadorVampireRightApr 02 18:18
ToreadorVampireEnough of thisApr 02 18:18
ToreadorVampireBest get some work done :)Apr 02 18:18
schestowitzLook how funding (in general) took a dive: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/...Apr 02 18:19
schestowitzBad time for small companies.Apr 02 18:20
schestowitzbblApr 02 18:25
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Balrogschestowitz: you around?Apr 02 20:28
BalrogIMPORTANT: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.p...Apr 02 20:28
Balrog"Microsoft Open Sources ASP.NET MVC" under the MS-PLApr 02 20:29
Balroganyone?Apr 02 20:30
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[myself]yApr 02 20:35
schestowitzBalrog: just PRApr 02 20:37
schestowitzGPL enemy... ms-pl is a Trojan horse.Apr 02 20:37
Balrogms-pl is gpl-incompatible, but not the worst license I've seenApr 02 20:39
schestowitzIt's not about the icenseApr 02 20:39
schestowitzit's about them trying to confuse peopleApr 02 20:40
Balrogtrue.Apr 02 20:40
schestowitzCue Miguel to shout "go go Microsoft" in Tirania after ignoring the TomTom thing altogetherApr 02 20:40
Balrogyou can't use it with GPL, and the redistribution provisions mess it upApr 02 20:40
schestowitzYesApr 02 20:40
schestowitzTo screw GNU/Linux poolsApr 02 20:40
schestowitzI wrote about it 2 weeks agoApr 02 20:40
schestowitzbrbApr 02 20:40
Balrogyes. GNU/Linux can't use it.Apr 02 20:41
Balrog(well it can, but not with GPL or BSD licensed code)Apr 02 20:41
Balrogwhich defeats the purposeApr 02 20:41
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schestowitzThat's the idea.Apr 02 20:56
schestowitzIDG gets its knickers twisted: "Continuing, recently I was irked by the following article: Multicore chips pose next big challenge for industry. My response to the IDG News Service writer, Do ya think? May I suggest a better headline Multicore chips pose the biggest most monumental and grandest challenge ever to the entire industry." http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7278/Apr 02 21:00
schestowitzBalrog: I'll do a post tomorrow about Microsoft pseudopen-souuce. I actually have 3 separate new exhibits, yours being oneApr 02 21:02
schestowitzI spoke too soon. MS de Icaza has already done MS PR: http://tirania.org/blog/archiv...Apr 02 21:05
BalrogI see.Apr 02 21:12
schestowitzsee coments in http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...Apr 02 21:17
schestowitzGood commentsApr 02 21:17
Balrogso what's your final rating on that RMS talk?Apr 02 21:19
schestowitzIt was underwhelmingApr 02 21:22
schestowitzI've seen better ones, also in real lifeApr 02 21:22
schestowitzAnd he was crabby that dayApr 02 21:22
BalrogI see.Apr 02 21:24
Balrogit's going up anyway.Apr 02 21:25
schestowitzGood, so I can link to it ultimatelyApr 02 21:25
Balrogyes.Apr 02 21:26
Balrogdon't link right now; I need to find a fast server :)Apr 02 21:26
Balrogand get the filtered / higher-quality version upApr 02 21:27
schestowitzThe shills of Microsoft are pressing on the European Commission. Did they bribe them with that "innovation day"? ... to buy new laws? http://blog.actonline.org/2009/03/le...Apr 02 21:27
Balrog(filtered meaning with video filters to improve deinterlacing quality)Apr 02 21:27
schestowitzWhat a sickening think lobbying is.Apr 02 21:27
schestowitzBalrog: use CDNApr 02 21:27
schestowitzSubmit to /.Apr 02 21:27
Balrogthe school wants to host it.Apr 02 21:27
schestowitz1.5gbx10kApr 02 21:27
BalrogI just have to find a fast server hereApr 02 21:27
Balrogwhat CDN?Apr 02 21:27
schestowitzlike AkamaiApr 02 21:28
schestowitzor CORALApr 02 21:28
schestowitzThink of mirrorsApr 02 21:28
Balrogwe don't have $$$Apr 02 21:28
BalrogI knowApr 02 21:28
schestowitzSure you doApr 02 21:28
Balroglack of funds doesn't provide many optionsApr 02 21:28
Balrogno, the other departments get itApr 02 21:28
schestowitzCMU is Ivy LeagueApr 02 21:28
Balrogthere are TWO computer departments hereApr 02 21:28
schestowitzAFAIK, for scienceApr 02 21:28
BalrogI'm not CMUApr 02 21:28
schestowitzI met some people from there in ViginiaApr 02 21:29
schestowitzOKApr 02 21:29
Balroghost <my-ip> to find outApr 02 21:29
BalrogI'm not hiding itApr 02 21:29
schestowitzYes, I knowApr 02 21:29
schestowitzFutile are the attempts to stay hidden these days.Apr 02 21:30
BalrogCMU gives away the software based on silverlight for video streamingApr 02 21:30
Balrogyes.Apr 02 21:30
BalrogI don't tryApr 02 21:30
BalrogI could use TOR if I wanted toApr 02 21:30
schestowitzI'm trying to find the ogg-hosting siteApr 02 21:31
schestowitzI can't recall its nameApr 02 21:32
Balrogif you link it, there probably will be a lot of trafficApr 02 21:32
Balrogoh, it's OK to redistribute non-commercially without modifications once I have the final upApr 02 21:33
schestowitzhttp://www.oggfrog.com/music...Apr 02 21:33
Balrogthe one you have right now is a preview that's not properly encoded.Apr 02 21:33
schestowitzHow about torrents?Apr 02 21:33
Balrogstream firstApr 02 21:33
Balrogas I said, it's ok to redist once the final is outApr 02 21:33
Balrogactually not non-commercialApr 02 21:34
Balrogjust CC Attribution No DerivativesApr 02 21:34
schestowitzzoobab01: missing links @ http://www.digitalmajority.org/foru...Apr 02 21:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/2009/0... "During the workshop it was Charles Schulz of Ars Aperta who articulated this frustration among SMEs as RAND referring to “RANDom licensing at the sight of competitors.” In his presentation, Schulz also pointed out that (F)RAND terms are discriminating against free software. Even RAND terms linked to zerApr 02 21:41
schestowitzo royalties, the so-called RF-on-RAND (”Royalty Free on RAND”), RAND-RF (”RAND Royalty Free”) or RAND-Z (”RAND with Zero royalties”) can exhibit the same problems if they do not permit sublicensing, for instance.Apr 02 21:41
schestowitzFree software (aka Open Source, FOSS or FLOSS) is a software model defined by a high level of user control over the software in combination with far-reaching freedoms to inspect the source code, to study and innovate upon the software. In particular, it is based on the principle that every living person and every legal entity can be a user, developer, distributor, or any combination of the above. Only conditions which permit this tApr 02 21:41
schestowitzo take place are acceptable to free software..."Apr 02 21:41
schestowitzhttp://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc... "The application “was filed in error and will be withdrawn,” said IBM spokesman Steve Malkiewicz." Sounds like they are lying. Applications don't just file themselves. They got caughtApr 02 21:50
schestowitz"Leaders of the world’s largest economies struck a closed-door deal late Tuesday to create an international court for intellectual property litigation in a move sources said they deemed a best effort to turn back global economic demise." http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/2009/04/... Globalisation of anti-Free software lawsApr 02 21:51
schestowitzOh, wait. It is a joke.Apr 02 21:53
schestowitz"The court is seen by WIPO as an extension of its work with the treaties, and the agreement comes at a critical time for WIPO, which has not completed negotiations on a new treaty in years. “This fits with a growth strategy during the downturn,” said WIPO’s Charle Latan. “Litigation.”"Apr 02 21:53
schestowitzzoobab01: did you see this?Apr 02 21:53
schestowitzYes, it's a joke, "Prof. Dr. Dr. jur. Wilhelm Neu is also among the contenders, as is the Eastern jurist Dun Kan Buc Nel."Apr 02 21:54
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schestowitzhttp://www.garyreback.com/book.html  "Free the Market! provides a riveting, inside look at the ways big companies have gradually recovered their market-dominating powers – damaging consumer welfare, entrenching industry incumbents, and making life miserable for entrepreneurs in the process."Apr 02 22:00
schestowitzSlashdot is fiddling with injurious speculation: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slash... They also feed anti-Linux IDG junk :-|Apr 02 22:08
benJImanYou'd never find injurious speculation on boycott novell.Apr 02 22:09
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schestowitzMore April Foolishness <  http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/35533 >Apr 02 22:23
schestowitzTomTom Buys Microsoft < http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2009/04/0... >Apr 02 22:23
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/N...  EVO is almost into the console marketApr 02 22:26
oiaohmThis is the problem MS has there soon will not be a market that they are in that Linux does not have at least some market share.Apr 02 22:26
oiaohmhttp://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/...  Interesting.Apr 02 22:30
schestowitzYes, a little weirdApr 02 22:30
oiaohmIts the Linux foundation branching out.Apr 02 22:30
oiaohmHave you been watching the list of features not included in the Linux kernel I guess not.Apr 02 22:31
oiaohmThey are rapidly heading to zero.Apr 02 22:31
oiaohmSo all that is left outside the main line are features with secuirty problems.Apr 02 22:32
oiaohmBasically what does the Linux foundation do with itself when the kernel is basically complete.Apr 02 22:32
schestowitzThey have linux.com with proposalsApr 02 22:33
schestowitzThere's always something worth rewritingApr 02 22:33
oiaohmLinux.com was one of there first major branch outs.Apr 02 22:33
oiaohmsourceforge is also doing the same with the take over of freshmeat.netApr 02 22:34
oiaohmI think the time of the great Linux merge is on us.Apr 02 22:34
MinceRresistance is futile?Apr 02 22:34
MinceRwho's going to merge with whom?Apr 02 22:34
oiaohmMinceR: remember the Linux Foundation has full power to control who uses the Linux trademark.Apr 02 22:35
MinceRi didn't know thatApr 02 22:35
MinceRhas Linus sold it to them or something?Apr 02 22:35
schestowitzIt's trueApr 02 22:35
schestowitzAll the "Linux" sites use trademarksApr 02 22:35
oiaohmLinus is part of the Linux foundation.Apr 02 22:36
oiaohmHe is full time employeed by them.Apr 02 22:36
MinceRwhat if they fire him?Apr 02 22:36
schestowitzTroll headline: Is Linux Bad for the Economy? < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com... >Apr 02 22:36
schestowitzLike Mandriva fires GaelApr 02 22:37
oiaohmThe Linux foundation was created to pay Linus MinceRApr 02 22:37
MinceRbut once it owns the trademark, it can be hijackedApr 02 22:38
MinceRcan't it?Apr 02 22:38
oiaohmLinux.com was not in a place to prevent Linux foundation take over.Apr 02 22:38
oiaohmUnder current day domain internet domain laws if you hold the trademark you can push people off the domian if they don't hold the trademark.Apr 02 22:39
schestowitzBill Beebe, like Beranger, lied.Apr 02 22:41
schestowitzNeither left GNU/Linux. http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2...Apr 02 22:41
oiaohmThey did.Apr 02 22:41
oiaohmThey did not find Windows a happy home for some reason.Apr 02 22:42
schestowitzWell, duh.Apr 02 22:42
schestowitzNeighbour's lawn often seems greener from afarApr 02 22:42
oiaohmExacly the same old human error.Apr 02 22:42
oiaohmJust like the reverse of thinking you lawn is the best without correctly comparing.Apr 02 22:43
schestowitzSomething breaks, so you assume the solution is to moveApr 02 22:43
schestowitzLike... your Red Hat server is down for 10 minutes, so the only solution you can think of is moving to Windows hostingApr 02 22:43
schestowitzThen you play ping-pong and realise that nothing is flawless.Apr 02 22:44
oiaohmhttp://moblin.org/projects/fast-boot  << One of moblin key projects.Apr 02 22:44
oiaohm5 second boot times.Apr 02 22:44
schestowitzFedora 11 beta bares chest to all-comers < http://www.theregister.co.uk... >. F11 is temptingApr 02 22:45
schestowitzoiaohm: not good enoughApr 02 22:45
schestowitzARM is more energy efficientApr 02 22:45
schestowitzCan run all day AND cheaperApr 02 22:45
schestowitzNo x86Apr 02 22:45
schestowitzLinux-only..Apr 02 22:45
oiaohm5 second boot time is for all cpu types.Apr 02 22:45
schestowitzGoogle Rumored To Be Breaking Up With Firefox < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... >Apr 02 22:45
schestowitzoiaohm: ah, OkayApr 02 22:46
oiaohmSo no more devices taking 10 days to start up.Apr 02 22:46
oiaohmOk that is kinda over scaled.Apr 02 22:46
MinceRwell, duh, they're pushing chrome nowApr 02 22:46
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/wa...  << Now remove bios from question.Apr 02 22:47
MinceRgnApr 02 22:48
schestowitzMinceR: of course, that was pretty predictable.Apr 02 22:48
PeterKrausschestowitz: date of publish - 1st of aprilApr 02 22:49
oiaohmhttp://moblin.org/projects/appl...  Other key thing they are working on closing down the advantage BSD has with jails.Apr 02 22:51
oiaohmTaking over moblin to prevent neglect has lots of valid reasons for the long term of Linux.Apr 02 22:52
schestowitzPeterFA: probably bound to happen thoughApr 02 22:52
MinceRbsd lost that advantage ages ago.Apr 02 22:54
schestowitzHeh. Raptor mode for Lancelot < http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/... >Apr 02 22:56
oiaohmtrusted platform module support is going into 2.6.30Apr 02 22:58
oiaohmNow that is going to be nasty users could get locked out of altering some linux systems by it.Apr 02 22:58
schestowitzOh oh..Apr 02 23:01
schestowitzIBM's idea, right?Apr 02 23:01
schestowitzTPM..Apr 02 23:01
oiaohmYepApr 02 23:01
schestowitzF* IBMApr 02 23:01
schestowitzThey try to turn Linux into an OS/2 they wanted...Apr 02 23:01
schestowitzoiaohm: got link about this?Apr 02 23:01
oiaohmBut it means out of major secuirty stuff to merge there is only 2 bits left.Apr 02 23:01
schestowitzI never heard about it merged into Linux, but seen something around 2007 in Linux Electrons about intentApr 02 23:02
oiaohmhttp://beta.linuxfoundation.o...  << Linux Weather forcast.Apr 02 23:02
oiaohmThe two items that are missing from 2.6.30 is Apparmor(No real loss there)  and Real time virus scanning supportApr 02 23:03
oiaohmAfter that Linux security framework will be basically complete.Apr 02 23:03
oiaohmLow-level support for object storage devices  << I guess you don't understand what this means as well.Apr 02 23:04
schestowitzThis guy complains endlessly about Linux... I don't get it.... also a BN critic... http://blog.ibeentoubuntu.com/2009/0...Apr 02 23:05
schestowitzoiaohm: thanks.Apr 02 23:05
schestowitzAny artticle covering the TPM bit?Apr 02 23:05
schestowitzAre they doing a 'submarine' development?Apr 02 23:05
oiaohmThere is a link off that page to the one and only artical talking about it,Apr 02 23:06
schestowitzAs in, develop secretly and add it before people have a chance to protest the dev/merge?Apr 02 23:06
oiaohmOther than that you have to dig through mailing lists.Apr 02 23:06
oiaohmYes very much submarine development.Apr 02 23:06
oiaohmAs with most IBM patches to the Linux kernel.Apr 02 23:06
schestowitzThis? -> "Support for integrity management in the kernel has been merged.  This code makes use of the trusted platform module (TPM) built into many systems to ensure that the system's files (including its executable software) have not been corrupted, maliciously or otherwise."Apr 02 23:06
oiaohmYep that is TPM.Apr 02 23:07
oiaohmNot the otherwiseApr 02 23:07
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schestowitzIntegrity management in the kernel < http://lwn.net/Articles/227937/ >Apr 02 23:07
oiaohmNote the otherwiseApr 02 23:07
schestowitzSounds like confusionApr 02 23:07
schestowitzLet me see...Apr 02 23:07
oiaohmYep.  Only artical on it.Apr 02 23:07
_Hicham_Hi folksApr 02 23:07
schestowitzHi, _Hicham_ Apr 02 23:07
_Hicham_schestowitz : are u still upset?Apr 02 23:07
schestowitz"Kernel lockdown.. ... and so, in spite of the protestations of kernel developers, GPLv3 becomes more and more attractive ... "Apr 02 23:08
schestowitz_Hicham_: I was never upsetApr 02 23:08
_Hicham_how r u doing oiaohm?Apr 02 23:09
schestowitzJust couldn't respond quickly because I was processing links (news) at the timeApr 02 23:09
oiaohmFind _Hicham_Apr 02 23:09
_Hicham_u didn't come yesterdayApr 02 23:09
_Hicham_were u busy?Apr 02 23:09
oiaohmMost people don't get the other thing on the linux weather forcast and its long term effects  Low-level support for object storage devicesApr 02 23:10
oiaohmI was busy _Hicham_Apr 02 23:10
oiaohmI was on yesterday just at night my time.Apr 02 23:10
oiaohm Low-level support for object storage devices allows storage devices to have inbuild access controls.  Since each object is basically a file.Apr 02 23:11
_Hicham_so it is oiwhm = ok i wasn't over here manApr 02 23:11
Balrog_hello againApr 02 23:11
_Hicham_hello Balrog_Apr 02 23:11
oiaohmAdds new meaning to password protected/drm protected files.Apr 02 23:12
oiaohmBasically Linux is slowly become the most secure OS kernel on earth.  Problem that level of secuirty can be used for good or evil.Apr 02 23:13
Balrog_does anyone know of a good VPS with at least 1TB of storage that is reasonably priced?Apr 02 23:13
oiaohm1TB is a lot.Apr 02 23:16
Balrog_yes ... maybe 100GB would doApr 02 23:16
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schestowitzCould Linus have known something about DRM when rejecting GPLv3?Apr 02 23:20
Balrog_explain....Apr 02 23:20
oiaohmYes he did schestowitzApr 02 23:20
schestowitzI mean, look how he said that he "*likes* vivoization" (and I quote)Apr 02 23:20
schestowitzoiaohm: how do you know?Apr 02 23:20
oiaohmIt was one of the main reasons for the rejection in the Linux kernel mailing list.Apr 02 23:21
schestowitzLinux is getting Tivo-like functionality built in, AFAICTApr 02 23:21
schestowitzChange binary, won't runApr 02 23:21
oiaohmAdd in object based storage devices.Apr 02 23:21
schestowitzThat's simply a case of Linux mainline taking away the freedom using the loophole devicsed by TiVoApr 02 23:21
oiaohmRemoving storage device still might give you narda.Apr 02 23:21
schestowitz*devisedApr 02 23:21
oiaohmProblem is there are devices where TiVo style secuirty is needed.Apr 02 23:22
oiaohmLike you don't want people tampering with electronic voting systems.Apr 02 23:23
oiaohmAs I said there is good and bad to it.Apr 02 23:23
oiaohmGood for very particular uses.  You really do want to be able to inspect the source code of a electronic voting machine to make sure it is not stuffed up.Apr 02 23:24
oiaohmYou also don't want people tampering with it.Apr 02 23:24
oiaohmIf you look around you can find other valid uses of the tech.Apr 02 23:24
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8316 "Apr 02 23:25
schestowitzAs the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) turns 60 and some ask why the Cold War alliance still exists, NATO is launching new media and public relations efforts. The NewsMarket, an online source of b-roll and video news release footage, is providing NATO-produced videos to journalists."Apr 02 23:25
oiaohmProblem is I would bet almost all the money I have that it will be abused to harm users.Apr 02 23:25
schestowitzIt can restrict copyingApr 02 23:26
schestowitzLike proper DRMApr 02 23:26
schestowitzPut in the wrong handsApr 02 23:26
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8315 "The proposed legislation to have the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulate tobacco is "window-dressing masquerading as legislation," according to Alan Blum, M.D., director of the University of Alabama Center for the Study of Tobacco and Society."Apr 02 23:26
oiaohmIts very much like a gun.Apr 02 23:26
schestowitzOn the shelf.Apr 02 23:26
oiaohmA gun can save people from harm but most times it does the exact other direction.Apr 02 23:27
schestowitzBig deal for Red Hat.. http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/...Apr 02 23:28
oiaohmBoth techs could make the likes of android uncrackable.Apr 02 23:28
schestowitzHackable?Apr 02 23:28
oiaohmThink about it object based storage.Apr 02 23:28
oiaohmIt can require a codes to access every single file on the disk to alter them.Apr 02 23:29
oiaohmNot only locked out from running but locked out from the storage media as well.Apr 02 23:29
oiaohmTPM basically could be holding the key to the storage media.Apr 02 23:30
oiaohmuncrackable in my sence of data recovery schestowitzApr 02 23:30
oiaohmI don't care about running the item.  Just getting the data out of it.Apr 02 23:31
schestowitzI see......Apr 02 23:31
oiaohmReally well built DRM.Apr 02 23:32
_Hicham_that would ease ur job or make it worse?Apr 02 23:32
oiaohmMake it worseApr 02 23:32
oiaohmI would most likely have to move to reversing chips.Apr 02 23:32
oiaohmAnd other means of breaking devices open.Apr 02 23:33
_Hicham_wowApr 02 23:33
_Hicham_u would be a real cracker thenApr 02 23:33
oiaohmAlso make data recovery way more expensive.Apr 02 23:33
_Hicham_and that might be illegalApr 02 23:33
oiaohmWhat I do is legal here.Apr 02 23:33
oiaohmIf you own the data I am allowed to go after it.Apr 02 23:33
_Hicham_they could be put in jail for recovering protected dataApr 02 23:33
oiaohmNot here.  Law is very clear on it.Apr 02 23:34
_Hicham_that would be oiaijm = ok i am in jail manApr 02 23:34
oiaohmCracking encryption and systems is permited here as long as you have formal approval.Apr 02 23:34
oiaohmFrom the owner of the device you are attacking.Apr 02 23:35
_Hicham_yesApr 02 23:35
_Hicham_that is what i meanApr 02 23:35
_Hicham_maybe it is google who will attack uApr 02 23:35
_Hicham_what will u do with google then?Apr 02 23:35
oiaohmNow if I recovery items that along the way that own to other parties by the law it bad luck.Apr 02 23:35
oiaohmAs long is it was not my goal to get at that data.Apr 02 23:36
_Hicham_u should be carefulApr 02 23:36
_Hicham_so that u stay oiaohmApr 02 23:36
_Hicham_and not oiaijmApr 02 23:36
oiaohmI have done almost everything a IT office could do legally at different times.Apr 02 23:37
oiaohmThat includes lots of things people think are 100 percent illegal.Apr 02 23:37
_Hicham_like breaking into schestowitz computer?Apr 02 23:38
oiaohmI would need schestowitz approval for that.Apr 02 23:38
schestowitz"I would love to hear a little more Linux and Open Source News on the Show." http://www.cnet.com/8301-1145... wishful thinking at CNETApr 02 23:38
oiaohmIf I had it doing a secuirty test on his computer would be above board.Apr 02 23:38
oiaohmIe secuirty test=If I can break my way into it.Apr 02 23:39
oiaohmThere is very little you cannot do legally in it with the right paper work _Hicham_Apr 02 23:39
oiaohmMost annoying one is you cannot legally kill some one ever.Apr 02 23:40
oiaohmOk you can but you have to join the army.Apr 02 23:40
oiaohmOr police force or some other approve group.Apr 02 23:41
*ushimitsudoki has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 02 23:41
_Hicham_but I can kill schestowitz if I wantApr 02 23:41
_Hicham_I have a friend working as Hitman in the UKApr 02 23:41
_Hicham_but schestowitz is an old friendApr 02 23:41
_Hicham_that is why I can't kill himApr 02 23:42
_Hicham_I rather send an army to protect himApr 02 23:42
oiaohmUsing hitmen is not legal.Apr 02 23:43
_Hicham_I can't kill u too oiaohmApr 02 23:43
_Hicham_why?Apr 02 23:43
_Hicham_who will no?Apr 02 23:43
oiaohmTo intelegance groups.Apr 02 23:43
oiaohmYes the evils of diplomatic protection.Apr 02 23:44
oiaohmThere is basically very little you cannot do in this world if you have the right appovals.Apr 02 23:45
oiaohmgetting the approvals to kill me or schestowitz would be extreamlly hard.Apr 02 23:45
oiaohmBasically we are not important enough to be worth it.Apr 02 23:46
_Hicham_I can prove itApr 02 23:48
_Hicham_both of u are very dangerousApr 02 23:48
_Hicham_very dangerousApr 02 23:48
_Hicham_:DApr 02 23:48
oiaohmIt more ways than you know _Hicham_Apr 02 23:48
oiaohmIt/inApr 02 23:48
Balrog_the thing is that it's very obvious.Apr 02 23:48
oiaohmThere is advantage to doing data recovery.Apr 02 23:49
oiaohmYou know lots of important people.Apr 02 23:49
_Hicham_that is why u r dangerousApr 02 23:49
_Hicham_u know a lotApr 02 23:49
oiaohmCould be more dangerous dead than a live.Apr 02 23:50
oiaohmMore likely for the information to leak from my backups if I am dead.Apr 02 23:50
_Hicham_that is trueApr 02 23:51
_Hicham_I would take those backups and sell themApr 02 23:51
_Hicham_that way, I will get a lot of moneyApr 02 23:51
oiaohmAnd end up dead.Apr 02 23:52
_Hicham_why?Apr 02 23:52
_Hicham_I will run awayApr 02 23:52
oiaohmBecause want reason would they not have to kill you for revenge.Apr 02 23:52
_Hicham_I won't sell it thereApr 02 23:52
oiaohmVery unlikely that anyone would get approval to kill me the risks out way rewards.Apr 02 23:53
_Hicham_I will sell it for the russians for exampleApr 02 23:53
_Hicham_or for ChinaApr 02 23:53
oiaohmI have done data recovery for all kinds of people and countries _Hicham_Apr 02 23:53
oiaohmWrong place still dead.Apr 02 23:54
_Hicham_I will sell it for aliens thenApr 02 23:55
oiaohmschestowitz is protected the other way he would be missed.  Massively missed and bring a lot of questions.Apr 02 23:55
Balrog_schestowitz: I've already seen some DNS trouble todayApr 02 23:56
_Hicham_Balrog_ : is that related to Conficker?Apr 02 23:56
oiaohmDNS trouble is to be predicted.Apr 02 23:57
Balrog_I wouldn't be surprised if it is.Apr 02 23:57
Balrog_I have no proof thouhApr 02 23:57
Balrog_thoughApr 02 23:57
oiaohmRunning heavly level network scanning is not without it costs.Apr 02 23:57
Balrog_just  that many web sites don't work anymore from certain DNSApr 02 23:57
Balrog_is OpenDNS blocking Conficker's scans?Apr 02 23:57
oiaohmLot of networks are still on red alert.Apr 02 23:57
oiaohmYes opendns are blocking Conficker attempted points.Apr 02 23:58
oiaohmBasically the complete internet is still on red alert.Apr 02 23:58
oiaohmHopefully fairly soon it will be able to return to status normal.Apr 02 23:59

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