EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

12.01.09

Call for Action: Support the GIMP

Posted in Free/Libre Software, GNOME, GNU/Linux, Petitions, Ubuntu at 6:46 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Direct link

Summary: Please sign the Bring Out The GIMP petition

IN order to avoid further Mono dependencies in Ubuntu, readers are kindly urged to sign this new petition, titled “Bring Out The GIMP”. Please spread the word so as to get as many signatures as possible.

Related posts:

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

12 Comments

  1. Dylan McCall said,

    December 1, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Gravatar

    Please see this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olDMAYD7t3k

    Where in that discussion did anyone mention Mono?
    Have you considered the possibility that this was done for a good reason, taking into account Ubuntu’s audience? The bundled software is being replaced with different software that, if all goes well, should be more practical. (Free video editing software by Collabora, which will hugely benefit from the support. F-Spot is the same size it’s always been. Be happy).

    How is removing an application like GIMP considered crippling, anyway? Removing apt, or free video codecs, or the necessary drivers for making network connections, I could understand. Do you regularly run the live CD to edit images? Do you think the elusive “new user” will, in deciding whether to run Ubuntu, see GIMP, know what it is, /find an image file to edit/ and proceed to play with it? And if they already know what it is, why do they need to play with it?

    Right now, Ubuntu uses the main menu as advertising space to promote certain applications. People want applications like GIMP to be in there so that new users find out they are available. That is flawed design. A better approach is to utilize the software centre, which in Lucid will promote the great applications available to end users (like GIMP) far better – and less obtrusively – than the default main menu does in a way that actually gets them interested in using those applications.

    Finally, I don’t see why you would sign a petition with such nonsensical writing as this…
    “If the functionality said [current trendy] application provides, is also provided by another application which is far leaner, then please fix the problems with the leaner applications rather than removing important applications such as The GIMP.”
    …which seems to completely negate the point of the petition. I’ll break it down:

    * “GIMP does not seem to be in the category of ‘leaner applications’, but of ‘important applications’.”
    * “If there are two possible replacements for GIMP, and one is lean but the other fits your needs better, fix the lean one.”
    * “But never mind that whole ‘replacing things’ idea: don’t remove The GIMP to replace it with a lean application, trendy application or anything else: never remove The GIMP because we, the undersigned, said so.”

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Hi Dylan,

    I did not write this petition and in fact I posted a link to it after someone had notified me about it. I had nothing to do with it, so its contents I cannot comment on. The same goes for the Boycott Novell protests in India, which I only knew about after the event.

    By the way, I thought about removing that video above (it’s a very tasteless picture), but the only “bring out the gimp” video I could find was this one. If someone thinks it ought to be removed (one reader said so), please speak out.

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    But it looks like the petition is signed by you.
    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?botgimp&1
    #17.
    (My sympathies for David Gerard’s comment. You must have a thick skin).

    With regards to the crazy protests, don’t worry; I try what I can not to draw strange conclusions out of thin air :)

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Yes, I signed it because I think that the GIMP needs to stay (for the aforementioned reasons). I didn’t phrase the argument though.

    As for David Gerard, I don’t know if it’s humour or a forger.

    With regards to the crazy protests, don’t worry; I try what I can not to draw strange conclusions out of thin air :)

    Yeah, well… something or someone led Shane to the wrong impression that someone got arrested or that it was tied to us (neither is true).

    Actually, RMS was very proud of the Indian organisers for being the first-ever Free software activists to be removed by force for peaceful protest. The FSF also agrees that Mono/C# is a problem.

  2. rs said,

    December 2, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Gravatar

    @Dylan McCall: when you criticize The GIMP for not being lean, you’re trying to use my argumentation against itself, but fail spectacularly at proving there’s a leaner application that does the same.

    So thank you for providing a proof by negation that I’m right.

    I have a reasonably basic usage of graphics, and I don’t see any other application that does what little I do so well as The GIMP does.

    Don’t give me bullshit arguments like “photo organization”, or “basic photo retouch” because that’s a big insult to The GIMP. It’s uncomparable apps, you can only compare similar apps.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    KDE organises very well with Dolphin and also includes Gwenview for basic editing, but I realise that GNOME is another matter. Since GIMP is based on GTK (heck, it’s where it comes from), it seems rather odd that a GNOME-based distribution neglects it, whereas KDE-based ones do not.

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    Okay, so when you say “other leaner applications” you actually also mean The GIMP? (And yes, my argument there managed to fall apart on its own. I was tired).

    Here’s the problem, then: you are assuming that the Ubuntu desktop team must be removing The GIMP because something is wrong with it that can be fixed on their end. Nothing is wrong it; it is simply unsuited to the goals in Lucid’s out of the box experience. Fixing that would destroy its essence.

    In case you forgot, the default Ubuntu CD is not, and has never been, pitched as one for advanced multimedia production. It can be used as one, of course (and the folks at the Blender Foundation use(d) it for their open movies), but if you want that experience right out of the box the best choice is Ubuntu Studio, which is Ubuntu + the other goodies you care about.

    Also, PiTiVi, which is taking a bit of that new space, does not depend on Mono (and F-Spot has always been there, doing the same thing), so I can tell you are not completely informed on this issue. A shame, since this isn’t some kind of top secret deal; the information is out in the open!

    Finally, OpenOffice is a patent threat; Microsoft has threatened that it infringes 45 of their patents yet they have been quietly allowing it to persist, no doubt until it integrates better with other software and becomes a rigid dependency for the free software desktops. Not that Ubuntu or anyone else is removing it, but if you want to do their dirty work, be consistent.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Microsoft’s M.A.D. threat is useless because Sun and IBM have many patents to counter with; thus, Microsoft would not attack. Microsoft did not invent office suites, either.

  3. rs said,

    December 2, 2009 at 10:36 am

    Gravatar

    I’d also add that there are far leaner applications that could be used providing the same functionality and they don’t require booting The GIMP.

    You may find it convenient to forget that, but I’m not that forgetful. In the petition I precisely say that if they have problems, let’s work on fixing them.

    I must tell you that since Ubuntu switched to F-Spot for photos I get a horrible experience importing photos, because as I removed mono and family and put the replacement applications, Ubuntu spent zero effort in making sure the alternatives work.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    GIMP is currently gaining the native option of a GUI similar to Photoshop (not like GIMPShop/Pixel being separate) and gThumb is faster and leaner than F-Spot. There should be more discussion about ways forward (IMHO).

    your_friend Reply:

    What a crime the single window interface is. People who use Photoshop are not going to become GIMP users and the new interface will simply confuse the the existing GIMP user base. People who have never used either might as well learn to do things the GIMP way, which is designed around having a modern multiple virtual desktop window manager. Photoshop’s interface is built to deal with the limitations of Microsoft Windows obsolete GUI. Aping that wastes developer time serves no one. Free software can afford that kind of waste, but no interface change will ever please critics of free software and mono proponents.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    They add it only as an option.

What Else is New


  1. Links 31/10/2014: Rubin Leaves Google, Neelie Kroes Ends EU Career

    Links for the day



  2. The EPO Is More Corrupt Under Battistelli Than Under Alison Brimelow: Part VIII

    After Brimelow, with all her flaws and her scandals, an even worse President is installed who then abolishes oversight and seemingly brings his old friends to the EPO, creating a sort of subculture that is impenetrable to outsiders



  3. Claiming That Microsoft 'Loves' Linux While Windows Update Bricks Devices With Linux

    The sheer absurdity of claims that Microsoft -- which not only attacks those who distribute Linux and GNU but also blackmails them, takes them to court, or bricks their products without any liability -- 'loves' Linux



  4. Protectionist Reign: Corporations in Complete Control of Everything With Domination Over Patent Law

    How multinational corporations, joined by the corporate press that they are funding, promote a corporations- but not people-friendly patent policy in north America



  5. Links 30/10/2014: GNOME 3.15.1, Red Hat Software Collections 1.2

    Links for the day



  6. Links 29/10/2014: Ubuntu Touch Tablet, Puppy Linux 6.0

    Links for the day



  7. Links 28/10/2014: SUSE Linux Enterprise 12, Canonical OpenStack Distro

    Links for the day



  8. Links 28/10/2014: PiFxOS, The Document Foundation in OSBA

    Links for the day



  9. Microsoft is Bricking Devices With Linux (Yet Again!), So a Microsoft Booster Spins/Paints Linux Devices as 'Fakes'

    Microsoft delivers rogue drivers through Windows Update and they brick Arduino microcontrollers



  10. How Bill Gates Continues to Pass Wealth From the Public to His Own Bank Account

    Having put a universal tax on many things (not just computers) and evaded tax using the classic 'charity' trick, Gates is now buying the media, the schools, politicians etc. and earns as much as 10 billion dollars per year while the public is taught that Gates is a giver, not a hoarder of the worst kind



  11. Links 27/10/2014: Lenovo Unbundling, Linux 3.18 RC2

    Links for the day



  12. IRC Proceedings: September 14th, 2014 – October 25th, 2014

    Many IRC logs



  13. Links 25/10/2014: KDE Mockups, Update on GNOME Outreach Program for Women

    Links for the day



  14. After Infecting Unity -- Successfully -- Microsoft's Partner Xamarin Wants to Infect Unreal Engine With .NET

    Xamarin continues to spread dependence on Microsoft to more gaming frameworks, not just platforms such as GNU/Linux, Android, and even permanent-state devices



  15. Taking Microsoft Windows Off the Grid for Damage to Businesses, the Internet, and Banking Systems

    Microsoft's insecure-by-design software is causing massive damages ([cref 27802 possibly trillions] of [cref 13992 dollars in damages to date]) and yet the corporate press does not ask the right questions, let alone suggest a ban on Microsoft software



  16. City of Berlin Does Not Abandon Free Software, It's Only Tax Authorities

    A Softpedia report that says the City of Berlin is moving to Microsoft Office is flawed and may be based on a poor translation



  17. Nadella a Liar in Chief at Microsoft, Pretending That His Anti-Competitive Practices Are Unfortunately Imposed on Microsoft

    The nastiness of Microsoft knows no bounds as even its assault on GNU/Linux and dirty tricks against Free software adoption are characterised as the fault of 'pirates'



  18. Reuters Writes About the Demise of Software Patents, But Focuses on 'Trolls' and Quotes Lawyers

    How the corporate media chooses to cover the invalidity of many software patents and the effect of that



  19. Links 24/10/2014: Microsoft Tax Axed in Italy, Google's Linux (ChromeOS/Android) Leader Promoted

    Links for the day



  20. Links 24/10/2014: GNU/Linux History, Fedora Delay

    Links for the day



  21. Links 23/10/2014: New *buntu, Benchmarks

    Links for the day



  22. Links 22/10/2014: Chromebooks Surge, NSA Android Endorsement

    Links for the day



  23. Links 21/10/2014: Debian Fork Debate, New GNU IceCat

    Links for the day



  24. Criminal Microsoft is Censoring the Web and Breaks Laws to Do So; the Web Should Censor (Remove) Microsoft

    Microsoft is still breaking the Internet using completely bogus takedown requests (an abuse of DMCA) and why Microsoft Windows, which contains weaponised back doors (shared with the NSA), should be banned from the Internet, not just from the Web



  25. Microsoft 'Loving' GNU/Linux and Other Corporate Media Fiction

    Microsoft has bullied or cleverly bribed enough technology-centric media sites to have them characterise Microsoft as a friend of Free/Open Source software (FOSS) that also "loves Linux"



  26. India May be Taking Bill Gates to Court for Misusing His So-called 'Charity' to Conduct Clinical Trials Without Consent on Behalf of Companies He Invests in

    Bill Gates may finally be pulled into the courtroom again, having been identified for large-scale abuses that he commits in the name of profit (not "charity")



  27. The Problems With Legal Workarounds, Patent Scope, and Expansion of Patent Trolls to the East

    Patent trolls are in the news again and it's rather important, albeit for various different reasons, more relevant than the ones covered here in the past



  28. Links 20/10/2014: Cloudera and Red Hat, Debian 7.7, and Vivid Vervet

    Links for the day



  29. Links 20/10/2014: 10 Years Since First Ubuntu Release

    Links for the day



  30. How Patent Lawyers Analyze Alice v. CLS Bank

    Breaking down a patent lawyer's analysis of a Supreme Court's decision that seemingly invalidated hundreds of thousands of software patents


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts