Bonum Certa Men Certa

Mono Roundup: Still Dangerous, Still Not Acceptable

Monkey business



Summary: Nothing of practical use has really changed for Mono, but its connection to Microsoft was made a lot clearer

DURING many people's summer absence, the news came out about Microsoft's "community promise" (CP), to which we responded only succinctly [1, 2]. Here is a longer analysis, which comprises events preceding this promise as well.

Debian



eWeek (Ziff Davis) adds to the many reports about Debian's disagreement with Richard Stallman regarding Mono. The Inquirer covered this as well.

As the Debian project releases a second update of its Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 ("Lenny") distribution, a controversy has broken out over the next version, "Squeeze." GNU guru Richard Stallman has warned that by including a Mono-based note-taking application called Tomboy, Debian runs the risk of Microsoft litigation over C# patents.


Nothing has changed since Microsoft and Mono came out all jubilant. Stallman does not like Microsoft's CP, either.

Debian is meanwhile getting Gnote, a replacement for Tomboy.

Well, it seems that since last saturday, Gnote is now the default option in Debian for those platforms where Mono unportability prevents Tomboy from being used, namely: alpha, hppa, m68k, mipsel, mips, hurd-i386 and kopensolaris-i386.


Gnote 0.5.2 is out.

I just released gnote 0.5.2. It is a bug fix release.


Ubuntu



62% of the surveyed people did not trust Microsoft on Mono prior to the CP. We wrote about this over a week ago and also explained where Canonical stood on the subject. Heise later chimed in to say that "Ubuntu [is] to continue using Mono."

On behalf of the Ubuntu Technical Board, Ubuntu Development Manager and board member Scott James Remnant has clarified that the use of C#, specifically the Mono implementation, is not considered to be a problem and that it, and applications based on it, will continue to be included with the Ubuntu default installation set.


One reader wrote to remind us that "Solang, a photo manager, is now part of Ubuntu."

Microsoft



It is true that some people are in favour of Mono, but as we shall show in a moment, a lot of Mono proponents are also Microsoft proponents, but Microsoft is no proponent of GNU/Linux.

“Notice the fact that Microsoft and its friends in the IT industry absolutely love Mono and hate GNU/Linux.”First, look at this. Nice attitude there from a Microsoft intern (also noted last week, but this intern regrets his remarks and wanted to remove them from other people's Web sites too). Notice the fact that Microsoft and its friends in the IT industry absolutely love Mono and hate GNU/Linux. Is it not telling? There is no contradiction here.

The SFLC's Kuhn replies to these remark from the Microsoft intern with: "we should forgive him for statements (but not for still working at MSFT) Sometimes early-20s == saying stupid stuff." For those who did not follow this, the intern cursed me, linked to libel about me, and told Richard Stallman to "F*ck off" due to a technical/legal stance on Mono.

One reader suggested that we take a look what what this guy is up to. His profile says:

* Name Nikhil Kothari * Location Sammamish, WA * Web http://www.nikhil... * Bio Software Architect at Microsoft, working on .NET, ASP.NET and Silverlight...


Watch some of the older Tweets in there. He corresponds with C.J. Adams-Collier, who works on Mono and also worked for Microsoft. How about this:

"@cjadamscollier Thanks for the pointers - will keep them in mind as I look into things."

According to the Mono Web site, he is a Mono developer or generally a contributor. He was paid by Microsoft too, by his own admission. He tried to discredit Boycott Novell and he lurks in our IRC channel. One suspicion is that Microsoft is spreading (or simply exploiting) "Linux developers" whose role is to spread Moonlight and Mono, making Silver Lie and .NET a lot more prevalent.

Here is Microsoft's Nikhil Kothari chatting quite a lot with Miguel de Icaza:

"What is the recommended IDE/setup to use for Mono development on the mac? @migueldeicaza any suggestions?"

Here is another Twit which once again shows Microsoft's involvement in MonoDevelop, which ultimately strengthens Windows [1, 2, 3]:

"@migueldeicaza If things pan out with MonoDevelop and I get a few cycles, I will have something interesting to share ... fingers crossed."

It is worth remembering that Miguel de Icaza literally spends time at Microsoft. He goes on campus, too, having gone there for a job interview 10+ years ago. Nat Friedman was working for Microsoft.

Watch how the pro-Microsoft Gavin Clarke is giving de Icaza exposure, as usual. Together they defend the spreading of Mono, using The Register. They are working to spread .NET everywhere (Mary Jo Foley too, as always). Oh, how Microsoft loves Mono! If Microsoft likes it, then it's usually bad for its #1 competitor, GNU/Linux.

Why Mono is Still Dangerous



One visitor has just raised the following important point:

"By the way, what nobody here seems to be mentioning, I guess because they're pretty ignorant about .NET in general, is that the ECMA specs only cover versions 1 and 2 of the C# language, and neither version 3 which Mono already implements or version 4 of which MSFT's implementation is currently in beta have been submitted to any standards body. I think this is a bigger issue than support for some Windows libraries."

More holes/loopholes are identified:

Carlo Daffara, an open-source consultant, rightly notes that Microsoft's patent promise is not directly on Mono, but rather on these ECMA standards, which leaves "most of Mono...encumbered as before (WinForms, ADO.NET, ...)."


What are the CPs good for then? Even the use of language is laughable and reminiscent of surrogate terms. "Community promise" is a case of pretending that Microsoft is pro-"community". It's as Orwellian as the "Community" patent, which is a loophole for bringing software patents into Europe and thus harming the Free software community -- the real community.

So what it is with CPs then? Were they even tested in any court? It is a rhetorical question.

"Promises, promises," calls them Alan Lord. They are not legally binding.

The reason I won’t be using Mono is that the .Net framework is already embraced by Microsoft, it is already extended by Microsoft. It was from the beginning and will probably always remain so.


For a detailed analysis of the CP, see this from The Mad Hatter.

So why didn't Microsoft's lawyers include this in the main body? Microsoft's lawyers aren't stupid (I know one of them, she's a really smart lady). So why did they write it in this confused way?

I don't know. It doesn't make any sense.


The Mad Hatter told us that "from ITWire, several people have noticed that pro-mono people tend to duck having an independent evaluation done of Mono for patent issues."

Last year Groklaw wrote the article "What is Wrong with RAND?"

We now have this article whose headline is "What does RAND mean?" What it means to Free software is that it is a term to avoid, according to the GNU doctrine.

Apparently, it must mean something, because I find it being referenced in (supposedly serious) discussions about .NET licensing.

The acronym literally translates as “Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory”. So far so good. Except I don’t have a clue what it means. What does “reasonable” mean when applied to a patent licensing policy? Well, according to my own interpretation of this word, a licensing policy is reasonable when it prevents the patent from being used to impose a tax on any users of any program. But this is just my point of view on what is reasonable. Can you expect patent holders to agree with your point of view on what “reasonable” means when interpreting their own promises?


All in all, as we have said from the very start, the whole Mono story does not deserve this level of coverage. The editor of Linux Today (Carla) agrees that Mono and Google Chrome OS have been blown out of proportion, as we emphasised a day or so ago.

Just when I was getting thoroughly bored with Mono news, which is the same arguments recycled over and over, and little of anything more definitive from the Mono camp than "Same to you!", along came a tidal wave of Google Chrome OS news. The Chrome OS story is truly frightening, far more terrifying than Mono gaining a solid foothold in Linux distributions--- because the news is simply an announcement that the Chrome OS project has been officially launched. There is no OS yet. What levels of hysteria are going to be reached when the actual code is released? Rioting? Suicides? Looting?


Carla is also the editor of Linux Planet where she has published this article from SJVN about Mono. We too are quoted.

Peter Brown, the Free Software Foundation's executive director, though still isn't impressed. Brown said, "It's my understanding that Microsoft has not yet announced anything officially, but assuming it follows up on this blog post and covers ECMA 334 and 335 under the Community Promise, it will not protect free software from the threats we have been discussing That's because Mono implements, and Tomboy depends upon, a number of libraries which are 'standard' in the sense that they're under C#'s "System" namespace (indicating that they're part of the standard library) and provided in Microsoft's implementation, but somewhat pointedly excluded from the ECMA specifications."

So, Brown continued, "If the question is, should GNU/Linux distributions include Mono? Then the community promise from Microsoft covering these two specifications clearly isn't sufficient. That they won't sue us for infringement of some of their Mono patents is useless if they reserve the right to sue us over other Mono patents. If Microsoft really wants to assure the free software community that it does not intend to attack applications based on Mono in the future, it should issue a patent license to everyone for all the patents that are necessarily infringed by the complete implementation of Mono, that allows users to use, share, and modify the software as they see fit."

[...]

But, Roy Schestowitz, editor of Boycott Novell thinks that focusing on the patent issue alone is a mistake. Schestowitz said, "Patents were never the sole issue when it comes to Mono." Microsoft doesn't allow deviation from the .NET core. "This ensures that Microsoft stays in control. This leads to no independence, which Microsoft may describe as 'fragmentation.'"


Over a year ago, Beranger explained to us why Mono is more than just a patent trap; it is an habitual problem and he has just given a good theoretical example which concurs with real examples that we know of.

I am already laughing sarcastically when I imagine the faces of those Linux developers who, after having told their boss that they know C# and Mono, will be assigned to an ASP.NET project… on a Microsoft platform that uses the genuine .NET! Because this is what will happen!

And when you think that, after the initial unknown motivation to start developing Mono, the whole thing took exposure after some moron wrote Tomboy!

Therefore, believe me or not, my twisted radar tells me that in the long run, Tomboy and F-Spot are going to boost the sales of Microsoft Dynamics, which is a .NET range of products. Good work, Steve, and good work, Miguel.


Charles opines that Mono does not even matter these days.

Anyway, who should care about this? Gnome developers mostly. The rest of us have gone out of the .Net and Java wars after around 2004 or 2005, and have realized that there other realities such as Qt and Python (to name just a few), and most of all, there is the Internet, and the POSH (Plain Old Simple Html), and that new little Linux distributions launched by Google… And so much more.

Mono and .Net is one of the last schemes from an outdated behemoth; both the scheme and its inventor will soon fade in blissful irrelevance. It does not mean it cannot sting back though….


On the other hand, a journalist whom Microsoft bought lunch about 2 weeks ago (and later hooked up with Laura DiDio) has just bent backwards to find some criteria by which Mono seems better than Java. He published this in SD Times and saw all the Mono proponents citing him immediately. Novell is on the same boat [1, 2, 3, 4].

In addition, one reader warned us about what he calls "Major [Java] FUD campaign against Oracle and Sun via Deborah Gage."

He explains that "this follows the classic MSFT tactic of a positive headline covering absolutely disparaging content."

Microsoft still hates Java. It wants to replace it with .NET by all means available.

"Moonlight is usable for anyone on any distribution of Linux (redhat, ubuntu, etc.) -- it is not limited just to Novell as Mono is."

--Brian Goldfarb, Microsoft
[note: Moonlight depends on Mono, emphasis is ours]



Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

Journalists Should be Ashamed for Parroting False Claims From IBM Management About "Quantum Computing", Say IBM Insiders Who Work on "Quantum Computing"
IBM is a buzzwords vendor. International Buzzwords Machines.
Exposing Corruption Using a Highly Resilient Platform
Growing levels of trust, based on our track record, help us attract whistleblowers
FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) Has Weakened If Not Ruined What's Left of Big Media
Many things that have existed for decades are now being rebranded as "AI"
SLAPP Censorship - Part 97 Out of 200: Garrett in Hiding (From the Simple Observable Fact He's Closely Connected to the Microsofter Who Strangles Women, Tells Women to Kill Themselves, and Worse)
They use one another; they are coordinating this via the SLAPP industry in another continent
Rust Outsources its Financing (or Financial Control) to Microsoft
How long before the third "E"?
IBM's Shares Fell Nearly 13% in One Day (Including After Hours)
its main product is false promises
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: "Operation Influencer"
Costa's political career was far from finished
 
Links 04/06/2026: Self-hosting Remotely and GemText Emphasis
Links for the day
Links 04/06/2026: Ukraine’s Daily Moment of Silence and Uber Lays off 23% of HR
Links for the day
SLAPP Censorship - Part 98 Out of 200: Microsoft Threatening Real Security Researcher With Criminal Investigation for Talking About Microsoft's Bug Doors/Back Doors
The crime should be the back doors (deliberate attack on every user's data protection), not talking about those back doors
Microsoft Would Get Away Even With Pedophilia
"Microsoft should never be above the law"
Free Software is Nourishment to Software Users, Unlike Proprietary Software
Quit treating "mere users" of software "like animals"
The "Peanut Gallery" of GAFAM Has Infiltrated Free Software Projects or Disrupts Free Software Communities
They contribute nearly nothing and do substantial damage; they're freeloaders who attack the most productive members of projects
Coding is Not a Quantity Game (It Never Was!)
"less is more"
Mass Layoffs Expected at Microsoft in July 2026
They're preparing more "lists" of people
Reflection on EPO Leadership That Harbours Cocaine, IBM Leadership That Pumps-and-Dumps the Shares, and More
ManCity replaced Manuel Pellegrini with a more famous manager it didn't envision winning 20 titles in 10 years (it could only hope) [...] Team-building is something that "Pep" seemed to be good at, as was Jürgen Klopp
Pump and Dump by IBM Insider Traders: Nickle LaMoreaux, Gary Cohn, James Kavanaugh, Arvind Krishna, Robert Thomas, and Others
the shares are already collapsing
Links 04/06/2026: Microsoft Threatening Security Researcher for Naming Back Doors in BitLocker, "Demand is Booming for" Old Tech
Links for the day
Gemini Links 04/06/2026: "Word Vomit", Slop", and Moving to Gopher/Gemini
Links for the day
"Format Sovereignty" Can Only be Accomplished With LaTeX or OpenDocument Format (ODF) or Vendor-Neutral Standards for Editable Documents
Microsoft is, in effect, above the law
The Cyber Show on the Importance of Software Freedom and Why GNU/Linux Could Not be Stopped
an excellent article
Drew DeVault Can Still Redeem His Reputation. Revisiting His Attacks (and Attack Site) on Richard Stallman Might be a Good Start.
DeVault has openly apologised (this past spring)
The Register MS is Publishing Paid SPAM; Some of It is Designed to Prop Up the "AI" Pyramid Scheme
The Register MS participates in scams
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, June 03, 2026
IRC logs for Wednesday, June 03, 2026
GNU/Linux Usage Rising Among Gamers, But "Hardware Survey Data Not Available."
Not anymore, not for now anyway
Jumping Up and Down on the Shoulders of Giants, Never Talking About What Bill Gates Did
We're back to 2019
Despite LLM Slop or Chatbots, Our Traffic Has Doubled Since We Moved Everything to the UK (in 2023)
The demise of news sites was not what we thought it would be
Software Developers Attacked by Plagiarism Engines Because These Developers Can Teach People How to Exercise Control, Not Outsource to Monopolies of Slop and Back Doors
"Universities should be telling industry what is to be done next, not the other way about. Present education policy has the tail wagging the dog."
Quantum Quantum Quantum Quantum (Pump, Then Dump)
What has IBM become?
Communicating With Freedom - Part I - Developing “Quibble” and Improving GNU LibreJS in the Process
In the next part we shall examine where things currently stand
Quantum Computers Are "All the Rage" (35 Years Ago, What IBM Promises This Year is What People Promised When the CEO Was in His 20s)
"Quantum" hype is high on the agenda
How IBM Removes 15% of Its Staff Without Even Checking Performance of Staff (or Calling That "Layoffs")
Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) as veiled RAs
Links 03/06/2026: Mobile Systems, Openwashing, and New Antenna
Links for the day
Canonical as Reseller of Back Doors in "Ubuntu" Clothing
Microsoft is the antithesis of security and autonomy
Romania Used to be Windows Stronghold, But That's No Longer the Case
Windows was once upon a time so ubiquitous that institutions didn't bother supporting anything except it
KDE Has Long Used Dragons, and Dragons Come From Hatched Eggs
That Microsoft Lunduke tries to paint this as some "trans agenda" thing says a lot about Microsoft Lunduke and his COVID-19-damaged brain
IBM Announces 5 Billion Dollars "Invested" in "AI", in "Security", and 10 Billion Dollars for "Quantum", But IBM Does Not Have This Kind of Money (It's Fake News to Manipulate the Share Price)
IBM has fast-growing debt and liabilities, it does not intend to invest this kind of money, it's a smokescreen and false promises timed to alleviate the sagging share price (52-week low)
When Science and Religion Are on the Same Side, United Against Slop Pushers
The "Mathematics Pope" (sometimes known as "Pope Pi") brought together science and religion, united against technofascists who are mostly college drop-outs who abhor women
Links 03/06/2026: "In Turkey, Criticizing a Corporation Can Land You in Jail" and "Court Bans X Account of Turkey's Oldest Newspaper"
Links for the day
Web Censorship Benefits the Corrupt and the Criminal
More so when corrupt politicians are in charge
Have a "Lifetime" Without Microsoft
The online rage over this is still ongoing
Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine Undoing Censorship of Corporate Wrongdoing
That won't go away anymore
"For Entertainment Purposes Only" But Everyone Must Adopt It for Work and Governance, Say Anti-Scientific Technocrats
"The present mentality around "AI" is like driving to the gym to use a treadmill - it's walking for people who hate fresh air and beautiful changing scenery."
Gemini Links 03/06/2026: Ian Murdock's Ex-wife Footprint in Debian and Alhena 5.6.1 Released
Links for the day
Irish Company statCounter Recognises It Overestimated Microsoft Windows' Market Share in Ireland
it seems like the Irish people are gradually moving away from Windows
Corporate Media Participates in the Lie That Mass Layoffs at GitLab and Loss of Geographic Footprint in More Than a Third of Countries is "AI" and Thus "Success Story"
There's no way to spin this as positive news
Slop Prompting is Not a Coding Skill and Slop Deserves Shunning
Red Hat is hypocritically shunning the very same thing it keeps promoting
IBM colleagues "handed out a PIP and then right after the end date they are gone"
Some go into early 'retirement' to save face
SLAPP Censorship - Part 96 Out of 200: When You Receive Death Threats From Anonymous Sockpuppets/Burner Accounts Connected to People Who Strangle Women and Tell Women to Kill Themselves
Women are not objects and my wife ought not be mentioned in "threats to kill" (how cops have described this)
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: A Tale of Two Antónios - Introducing the Other António
António Costa
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 02, 2026
IRC logs for Tuesday, June 02, 2026
Advertisements as Articles in The Register MS
Trust in media
Social Control Media Does Not Improve Reach, It Wastes a Lot of Time
many people still think that no presence in Social Control Media necessarily means invisibility
Links 02/06/2026: New York Times Debunks "Hey Hi (AI) Layoffs" (Excuse, False Narrative), Sheinbaum Publicly Bemoans US Meddling
Links for the day
Despite Mass Layoffs and Culls Dubbed "Buyouts" Google's Debt Doubled in a Year and It's Desperate for Money (to Pay Salaries and Bills)
Google and GAFAM in general have mass layoffs because they have no clear route towards profitability
Gemini Links 02/06/2026: Arch Linux WriterDeck and Papyrix Reader
Links for the day
Bloggers Still Have Considerable Impact on This Planet
Nowadays, in academia almost anywhere in the world, there's growing expectation that lecturers will spend not much of the time doing research or even teaching
The Firing Line Against Techrights
Tomorrow we'll tell a story about campaigns to intimidate us with death threats
The Cyber Show on the Fight Against Technofascism
It's very long (all combined), but nevertheless refreshing
What Efforts to Cancel Richard Stallman Ought to Teach Us About the Media, Including Very Large British Publishers
Richard Stallman is like a modern-age Alfred Dreyfus
After Threats to Greenland Northern Europe Seems to be Moving Away From Microsoft Windows Even Faster
The facts on the ground are, more people/businesses/institutions "get the message"
Claim of 500+ IBM Red Hat Layoffs With Termination Next Month
IBM is doing great... at hiding internal affairs
Slop Did Not Rewire Democracy, It's a Giant Flop
we already see slop giants accepting they'll never make money
The Register MS Embeds in Articles "SPONSORED LINKS" That Link to "AI" Ponzi Scheme/Scam
The circular financing giants are allocating budget for the spam, as do the banks (lenders)
Many Countries Divest From Microsoft
new numbers at statCounter today
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: A Tale of Two Antónios - On the Campaign Trail in Brussels
Part 1
SEO is an Acronym That Stands for Slop Engine Orientation
The Web changed a lot when Web directories, portals, and then social control media gained popularity
IRC Network OFTC is Shedding Off Servers
Down to 17
Julian Assange's Counsel Jennifer Robinson Has Just Won an Award
Jennifer Robinson is relatively young
Schweizerische Bundesbahnen (Swiss Federal Railways) and Richard Stallman
It seems like RMS is receiving endorsement or at least belated recognition from very high-profile institutions
Almost 30 Years After Rob Malda Made Slashdot It Still Inspires New Implementations
Maybe the issue isn't Slash per se, just the complexity of it (which SoylentNews complained about in the past)
Links 02/06/2026: "The Infosec Phrasebook", 'Perfect Randomness' and "Leaving the Tech World Professionally"
Links for the day
Faking Demand for Slop: Google's Search Prompt Becomes Slop Prompt (Bait, Switch, Fake Usage)
If there is no consent, then it's unsustainable
When You Give People (or Companies) Money to Buy Your Own Products and Then Call It "Revenue"
A lot of modern "economics" don't benefit ordinary people (all they get is high inflation rates); they're devaluing money by faking economic activity
IBM is Self-Detonating, the Cheeto-Infused Rally is Another Con by Don
pump and dump
"Quantum" as the "Next Big" Bubble
disappointing and delivering nothing
Links 02/06/2026: "$1.5 Trillion Defense Budget Benefits Billionaire Cheeto Mussolini Supporters", US "Plans to Criminalize Sleeping Outside"
Links for the day
Gemini Links 02/06/2026: Organising Oneself and Killing Off Distracting "Notifications"
Links for the day
SLAPP Censorship - Part 95 Out of 200: The Growing Risk of Tolerating Men Who Abuse and Physically Assault Women
FOSS should not be a "safe harbour" or "hideout" for criminals
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, June 01, 2026
IRC logs for Monday, June 01, 2026