EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

04.29.09

Microsoft-funded Media Player to Become Ubuntu’s Default?

Posted in DRM, GNU/Linux, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, TomTom, Ubuntu at 6:38 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

“This is not a case of some accidental, unknowing infringement. There is an overwhelming number of patents being infringed.”

Horacio Gutierrez, Microsoft Vice President

Summary: Mono/.NET enthusiasts start pushing Novell’s Banshee into the next Ubuntu

AS NOTED two posts ago, Microsoft is — in essence — paying the wages of a lot of Novell developers. What is the return on this Microsoft investment? Microsoft is neither a charity nor a promoter of GNU/Linux.

“What is the return on this Microsoft investment? Microsoft is neither a charity nor a promoter of GNU/Linux.”Users may not notice this, but working behind the scenes are some people whose obligation seems to be infection of every distribution with the equivalent of Microsoft’s FAT. Whether deliberately or not, they put GNU/Linux distributions in a sensitive position. There are now attempts to push the Novell(Microsoft)-sponsored Banshee right into the heart of Ubuntu, as the default media player. What next? Windows DRM? This is problematic for reasons we've been through before.

Mono advancers are kindly asked to refrain from personal attacks which they have been spreading around the Web because they can’t defend Mono (the technical arguments) and they still refuse the address the trivial TomTom question.

Monkey's skull

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

18 Comments

  1. Will said,

    April 29, 2009 at 9:15 am

    Gravatar

    Not a good thing. Though I personally use Amarok. And Songbird looks like it might just equal Amarok with some time.

    To go back to the Mono discussion from earlier (replacing mono apps with safe apps), I think Gnome Do might become a problem over time. It’s a neat program, especially the more recent versions, from what I hear. I admit that I also use it, though I’m still on the much older version in Hardy’s repos. It is a great program for both enhancing usability and adding a little Mac-style slickness to the Linux desktop. But it is still mono based, and there isn’t anything out there trying to replace it yet. The longer any of these mono apps grow, the more mature and “feature rich” (if I may borrow a term from a certain you-probably-know-who) they will become and the harder it will become to displace them. As far as I know, none of these mono apps are really fundamentally necessary for Linux’s usability, but it would still be a shame to have nice features and functionality (even if it’s just eye-candy or trivial stuff) temporarily yanked away if MS gets trigger happy again.

  2. Jonas said,

    April 29, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Gravatar

    Two posts ago there was no proof that Microsoft is paying any wages.

    Two posts ago you mention that HP will sell SUSE Linux preinstalled and somehow this translates into “paying the wages of a lot of Novell developers”?

    Tortured logic.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Two posts ago there was no proof…

    There was an argument (“AS NOTED two posts ago…”) because Microsoft essentially paid Novell $100,000,000 in the summer. Novell is in very bad financial shape, so Microsoft is floating it.

    Two posts ago you mention that HP will sell SUSE Linux preinstalled and somehow this translates into “paying the wages of a lot of Novell developers”?

    Scroll down in that post. It’s further down.

    Jonas Reply:

    Wait, so Microsoft is paying Novell, but somehow this is a tax to Microsoft?

    More tortured logic.

    Gentoo User Reply:

    Welcome to the bottom of the FOSS advocacy barrel.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It pays to establish this tax system (consensus on software patents).

    NotZed Reply:

    oh come on, you’re just being intentionally ignorant here.

    Novell sold some patent licenses to M$ ’cause they needed some cash, and Novell licensed some back through on-going fees that are tied to sales of suse and an on-going ‘tax’ on it.

    Gentoo User Reply:

    There was an argument

    Another opinion being passed as fact because you know people are not going to bother to go back 10 or 20 posts to try and validate your claims.

    By the way, you might want to head over to reactivated.net. Daniel Drake (the Gentoo kernel lead) has a series of blog posts about a successful OLPC deployment to rural schools in in South America. Maybe that’s more noteworthy than your tortured prevarications about Microsoft that accomplish and contribute absolutely nothing.

    Jonas Reply:

    @NotZed

    So Novell had some goods that Microsoft wanted to buy (a patent license) and Microsoft then paid for said goods.

    That in Western countries is called “the free market”.

    That is very different from “Microsoft-funded media player”.

    For that to be the case, Microsoft would like the good (the media player) to be created and they would hire Novell to do this work. You would think that they would pay an *extra* sum for that work regardless of the previous payment.

    Or perhaps you believe that Novell is some sort of charity that should just throw in some free work as a thank you note?

    Of course this “media player” funded by Microsoft actually *predates* the Novell/Microsoft agreement, according to:

    http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Sonance

    Version 0.1 was released in February of 2005 (it used to be called Sonance before they renamed it to Banshee).

    In this world you inhabit, you probably believe that Microsoft signed a secret pact 20 months before their official agreement with Novell. You would think that if Microsoft was behind this, that they would demand that their funded effort was built on say, Winforms or WPF or some other Microsoft API, but not Gtk#.

    You guys remind me of Mel Gibson in “Conspiracy”.

    No wait. More like the anchor on SkyNews that sees a terrorist on every doner kebab.

  3. oiaohm said,

    April 29, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    Gravatar

    Mono itself is toxic by design. Mono default engine depends on JIT.

    People scream about eclipse and other major Java programs due to there heavy resources consume. Mono is no different both Java and Mono are JIT they have the same issues on performance and ram. Mono followers have learnt no lessons from Java.

    Mono threatens to poison Linux means to operate on low ram systems. Thinking the lions share of the Linux Desktop is in that section these moves are not great.

    Yes native code might be large on disk. The important but here. Native code more can be freed from memory than the same program build by a JIT.

    Mono people also avoid ever having to compare exactly the same program built native and JIT. Lead developer of mono uses excuses that particular optimizations on AOT are used by nobody even when it false. Mono design team is flawed from the project lead.

    Mono is detracting focus away from very important items.

    Gcc lacks link time optimization that can reduce native program size and ram usage massively. Mono depends on parts built by Gcc so is also depending on this bloat.

    Mono AOT building is even worse bloated than Gcc. Hopefully llvm work with Mono might see it become something useful.

    All distributions and projects really need to show Mono the door and say come back when you have a native complier that works and turn there focus to Gcc. Without gcc working right they have nothing working right.

    Gcc issues are the biggest bug bear in the Linux world. The problem start at Linux kernel and move up. The preprocessor of Gcc does not support types so Linux kernel developers use there own.

    We have a huge rolling disaster zone and we have people selling snake oil(mono) to fix the issues. Only one problem the snake oil is laced with slow acting poison that at this stage does not look that important.

    What is 1 meg more of non free able memory to operate as .net applications can add as JIT. Its 1 meg more to the min requirement of the Distribution slowly sneaking it out of low ram systems.

    Final result will be Linux losing long term in the lower end of the market to something like Reactos than can operate in 24 megs of ram.

    By the way windows is self poisoning themselves as well we don’t need to be idiots and copy reason why Windows 7 cannot operate well on a 1 G ram netbook net surfing to get it to operate well you have to upgrade the ram to 2G. Now stupid argument is that 2G only cost 24 dollars with arm devices that are aiming at cost 200 dollars or less you are spending a large block of money just to run Windows.

    Bottom end needs low specs so they can deliver low price. Windows is failing here. We again don’t need to be stupid most of the desktop market is moving to the low end this is where our focus should.

    Mono should be kick to the curb so hard its not funny to make them wake up the times of expanding computer specs is over. The computer spec depression is here everyone needs to tighten there belts.

    That Linux can be run faster under workloads than Windows really should not happen. It just shows how bad some of the Windows Internals are. Complier used to build windows is a better complier for optimization than gcc.

  4. An enginerd said,

    April 30, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Gravatar

    If my fresh install of Ubuntu (or any other Debian-based distro) has Mono or any other piece of M$-shit, it disappears quicker than you can say “sudo apt-get uninstall mono”. Or maybe I’d just change my Linux distro to something that doesn’t try to push crap on my computer.

  5. max stirner said,

    April 30, 2009 at 2:38 am

    Gravatar

    this is the end – my only friend, the end?

  6. ushimitsudoki said,

    April 30, 2009 at 3:10 am

    Gravatar

    In my understanding, the “Microsoft is paying Novell wages” is based on a comment by Sam Varghese is an article (http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24646/1231/) where he states:

    “And if Microsoft had not increased its SUSE Linux coupon deal by another $US100 million and put in $US25 million for the quarter, Novell would have had no profit to show at all. All that it recorded was a drop of 36.5 percent in profits to $US10.7 million.”

    The idea being that the only profits that Novell is showing are due to the voucher deal. Or, to be less dramatic: if it were not for the voucher deal, Novell would be losing money big time (because I’m sure they spread the loss/profits around).

    When I read the Varghese article it raised the question in my mind that – assuming the statement is correct – how exactly is Novell *not* going to be a simple cat’s-paw of Microsoft, if they depend on Microsoft to be profitable?

    I don’t think it is unrealistic to worry that Novell is a willing and enthusiastic Microsoft collaborator (they proudly state so on many web sites), and furthermore I don’t think it is unrealistic to worry that Microsoft seeks to undermine Linux (to whatever degree they are able).

    So, then, I don’t think it is unrealistic to oppose Novell and by extension any efforts they introduce into the ecosystem, especially those that are specifically designed to assist with the spread of Microsoft technologies.

    Furthermore, arguments like “the GPL will protect us” and “other companies present patent problems as well” and pretending like they absolve Microsoft/Mono/Moonlight, strikes me as arguing that a prison has bars and there are many offenders inside, so don’t concern yourself with that specific prisoner that is seeking parole into your community.

  7. Ynynymys said,

    April 30, 2009 at 5:47 pm

    Gravatar

    Why is Ubuntu shipping with Mono apps by default anyway? I mean, they leave out Flash and restricted video/wireless drivers because they’re not allowed to distribute them with the OS, even though it breaks a lot of functionality. Why would they choose to ship Mono apps in a default installation if those of us that know better do a “sudo apt-get remove –purge libmono”? It’s more work for me to do after every install, and those that don’t do it are left with these poisoned apps. It’s a lose-lose situation. Maybe it’s time to move back to Debian.

    FlavioC Reply:

    TomBoy is a Gnome application. That’s why.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It’s actually cross-platform by design, but the problem is that GNOME lumps it in (rather than Gnote, for example). We shall see…

  8. Kevin Dean said,

    May 4, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Gravatar

    Ubuntu users are still free to remove Banshee or Mono if the applications, platforms and libraries don’t mesh with their philosophy. No user freedoms are removed by moving to Banshee as default.

    Additionally, Ubuntu (Canonical) already ships Banshee in the repos, so if Microsoft were interested in suing companies that ship Banshee, they’d already have grounds to do it.

    It’s sort of amazing to me that as Microsoft is putting out less and less FUD since Gates resigned, Linux users are picking up the slack to keep the FUD marketplace flooded.

    “It infests your IP!” is a Microsoft strategy, employed because in the past, they had no technical arguements for their software. I think it’s VERY telling that it’s now being used here.

  9. Roy Schestowitz said,

    May 4, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Gravatar

    It’s sort of amazing to me that as Microsoft is putting out less and less FUD since Gates resigned, Linux users are picking up the slack to keep the FUD marketplace flooded.

    You are wrong. Microsoft is suing Linux now (TomTom), it signs patent deals where it claims Linux infringements, it sends lobbyists to poison FOSS panels, it commissions hostile ‘studies’, etc.

    If you think that Microsoft’s FUD has declined, then you were not paying enough attention.

What Else is New


  1. Never Let IBM/Red Hat Lecture Us on Morality

    Ethics and morality should not be taught by those who themselves need a lesson; in the meantime we're losing the courage to speak freely and those who commit atrocious acts like it a lot better that way



  2. [Humour/Meme] Wear the Red Hat as the Open Org Becomes Openwash

    IBM is changing Red Hat and not for the better; sooner or later IBM will become another Microsoft and changing from one to the other will be like swapping 'masters'



  3. IBM is Imposing Non-Free, Privacy-Infringing Tools and Patent Tolls on Red Hat Staff

    There are signs that Red Hat under IBM will be more like assimilation to IBM, not IBM assimilating to the 'Red Hat way' or the so-called 'open org'



  4. They Tell the Free Software Community That It is Racist While Saying Nothing at All About Trump's Racism (Because He Gives Them Government and Military Contracts)

    While their president compares 'foreign' people to a virus (using innuendo, dog whistles and racist rhetoric reminiscent of the Nazi era) the big US corporations (American surveillance giants) turn their attention to rather innocuous words inside people's code (which almost nobody sees anyway)



  5. LibreOffice 'Personal Edition' Seems Like a Marketing and Communication Fluke

    Had LibreOffice developers (and the Document Foundation) communicated these changes more openly, they would have averted/avoided some of the FUD



  6. It Almost Feels Like Microsoft Has Already 'Bought' Canonical

    Canonical's disturbing trajectory and betrayal of the community continue unabated; one can easily get the impression that Ubuntu exists to help Microsoft at some level



  7. Update to GNU Project Bleeding into Microsoft

    Update



  8. Microsoft is Going to Get Tired of Whining About “GAFA” and Accept That It's Just as Bad If Not a Lot Worse at Privacy

    Microsoft is being treated by the US government as if it's not abusing anything, let alone people's privacy; if anything, this demonstrates the degree to which Microsoft infiltrated or 'vendor-captured' regulatory branches



  9. Links 6/7/2020: LibreOffice 7.0 RC1, MX-19.2 KDE Beta 1, Linux 5.8 RC4

    Links for the day



  10. ZDNet's 'Linux' Section: Linux is Full of Problems and It Loves/Embraces Software Patents

    Software patents promotion and GNU/Linux FUD; your daily dosage of 'news' from the tabloid known as ZDNet...



  11. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 05, 2020

    IRC logs for Sunday, July 05, 2020



  12. Links 5/7/2020: Slackel 7.3 Mate Beta and GNOME Gingerblue

    Links for the day



  13. Technological Progress? Only If We Assume The Wrong Things...

    When we're told that we're all dumb we're being given increasingly dumb technology (and they tell us dumber is better)



  14. Linux Foundation Still Owned and Controlled Largely -- and More Over Time -- by Surveillance Companies (Openwashing Services for Bad Practices and Bad Actors)

    The Linux Foundation‘s growing role in spying or the focus on data-mining operations is an eternal reminder or warning that the Foundation follows power and money, not freedom or ethics (it began as a salary-paying venture, crowdfunding among large corporations which conduct mass surveillance)



  15. Sharing is Caring, as Those Who Share Usually Care

    Going back to our human roots, people who cooperate and collaborate are vastly more likely to survive and thrive; Free software is almost guaranteed to become the norm when/once everyone demands it (proprietary software is too divisive, supremacist and even racist)



  16. Systems Can Crash and People Can Die by Changing Language (Even in Parameter and Function Space) to Appease Activists

    It seems clear that Intel takes the lead in trying to change Linux not in technical means but purely social means; even when (and where) that can compromise the robustness of the kernel (Intel is nowadays known for profoundly defective chips with back doors)



  17. António Campinos Should Speak to Peasants, Not Litigation Lawyers

    Mr. Campinos does not work for campinos but against campinos; he represents the people who sue or threaten them using ludicrous patents that should never have been granted (e.g. in Ethiopia)



  18. Christine Lambrecht (German Minister of Justice and Consumer Protection) Ignores the Fact That Even Patent Experts Reject the Unitary Patent (UPC)

    The debacle single-handedly caused by and attributable to Christine Lambrecht, who is eager to appease litigation lawyers, is made yet worse by the fact that people in this domain/profession reject what she's trying to ram down people's throats



  19. [Humour] The Linux Foundation is Not Even Using Linux

    The Linux Foundation does not support Linux except in name; it is important to remember that



  20. Microsoft Loves Power

    An explanation of why Microsoft says it loves this and that; Microsoft lacks the capacity to love or to express empathy as it's always about self gratification or coercion, nothing else



  21. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, July 04, 2020

    IRC logs for Saturday, July 04, 2020



  22. Indoors Society, Shut the Windows

    Times are changing in all sorts of ways; it seems like GNU/Linux and other Free/libre operating systems may emerge as winners when the 'dust settles'



  23. Allegation That Microsoft Adopted the Mentality of Suicide Bombers Against Linux, Leaks Reveal

    Looking at leaked E-mails from around the time Microsoft used Cyanogen as a 'proxy', we're finding some stunning admissions or speculation about the real motivations



  24. [Humour] A Union in Whose Interests?

    The union-busting 'yellow union' (the one that helped Benoît Battistelli marginalise SUEPO) is unable to represent staff any longer



  25. FFPE EPO Has Rendered Itself Obsolete by Liaising With Benoît Battistelli

    FFPE EPO has been left out of staff representation, demonstrating that liaising with the oppressor is a self-deprecating move which must be avoided (the only remaining potent union is SUEPO)



  26. Links 4/7/2020: LibreOffice 7.0 'Personal Edition', Atari VCS Coming Soon

    Links for the day



  27. [Humour/Meme] The 'New' Edge (Chrome Copycat) is Already Dead, So Microsoft is Trying to Just Kill the Competition

    Edge market share is so minuscule that it doesn’t even make it into this chart (it’s in “other”); no wonder Microsoft now bullies Windows users into using it, for users reject it even after months of endless advertising/AstroTurfing and aggressive exploitation/appropriation



  28. Fourth of July in the United Kingdom and the United States

    In these bizarre times Independence Day is still being celebrated, even as so many people are out of work, running out of hope and being fed xenophobia in social control media with a racist 'celebrity' president (the "user in chief")



  29. [Humour] Bigger is Always Better When You're a Deluded Maximalist

    The EPO totally lost sight of its mission; it's just speeding everything up, very carelessly, not minding quality and accuracy/certainty/legal validity



  30. 'Managing Intellectual Property' Managing to Become Uncritical Parrot of EPO Management

    Managing to amplify the EPO's lies isn't hard; one just needs to copy, paste, edit a little; then they call it 'journalism', irrespective of the proven track record of EPO management lying to staff and to the media


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts