IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 27th, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-12-28 07:37:03 UTC
Modified: 2008-12-28 10:13:54 UTC

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seller_liar	Novell bit by bit tries to replace all linux apps to mono apps	Dec 27 00:29
seller_liar	http://www.monsoon-project.org/	Dec 27 00:30
seller_liar	At this time is Deluge vs Moonsoon	Dec 27 00:31
seller_liar	I don t know if is Novell sponsored	Dec 27 00:33
seller_liar	But it's inclued in OpenSuse Installation 11.1	Dec 27 00:33
MinceR	gn	Dec 27 01:07
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schestowitz	LOL the Microsoft Munchhkins threaten to harass my bosses to have me harmed. :-) They tried this years ago and it got them nowhere.	Dec 27 01:55
schestowitz	This Microsoft shill (FACT) links to Homer's site: http://platformevangelism.spaces.live... Damage control	Dec 27 02:24
schestowitz	That's the guy who wrote the "evangeligm is WAR" memo. He was in touch with me and another person from COLA. He regrets what he did and only after leaving Microsoft could he understand that (amazing what people do from a check from Don Ballmer).	Dec 27 02:27
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schestowitz	People in have already made up a name for me < http://platformevangelism.spaces.live.c... > : "BoycottBoy" ((that's from a Microsoft blog)	Dec 27 04:43
schestowitz	Watch Kara and Mossberg pimping each others' stuff in Digg: http://digg.com/users/waltmossbe...	Dec 27 06:11
schestowitz	http://digg.com/users/karaswisher/friends	Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz	Kara diggs Mossberg	Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz	Mossberg diggs Kara.	Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz	"Yeah that's for sure. Our country is falling apart and the Chinese are taking over." http://www.mixx.com/stories/3222455/microsoft_...	Dec 27 06:17
schestowitz	I've just told Var Guy that he was not wrong about Novell. They operate at a loss (about $17 million) and their stock sank by about 50%.	Dec 27 06:59
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schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression "There were multiple causes for the first downturn in 1929, including the structural weaknesses and specific events that turned it into a major depression and the way in which the downturn spread from country to country."	Dec 27 07:56
schestowitz	"Irving Fisher argued that the predominant factor leading to the Great Depression was overindebtedness and deflation. Fisher tied loose credit to over-indebtedness, which fueled speculation and asset bubbles." < like patents	Dec 27 07:58
schestowitz	"After the panic of 1929, and during the first 10 months of 1930, 744 US banks failed. (In all, 9,000 banks failed during the 1930s)."	Dec 27 07:59
schestowitz	"In their view, the key cause of the Depression was the expansion of the money supply in the 1920s that led to an unsustainable credit-driven boom."	Dec 27 08:02
schestowitz	Shane O'Neill , CIO.com, seems like Microsoft booster in IDG. He's using their marketing buzz-sentences repeatedly.	Dec 27 08:23
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/article/156081/saty... "Indian outsourcer Satyam Computer Services has demanded an apology from the World Bank for statements made after it barred Satyam from the bank's direct contracts for a period of eight years."	Dec 27 08:25
schestowitz	The more I read it, the more similar it seems to what happens at the moment (only the early stages). It hopefully won't lead to a world war :-O 10 years down the lines as it did back then (rise of extreme regimes)... these days the Chinese have nukes too and hydrogen bombs makes world wars super-lethal.	Dec 27 08:50
schestowitz	Several decades ago in Europe (cold war). scientists warned that the survival of the human species is at stake. There was almost a nuclear strike, but it was avoided at the end.	Dec 27 08:50
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schestowitz	Whoa. Like 100 people per day come to Boycott Novell after searching for information about the Microsoft layoffs. That's like double what it used to be.	Dec 27 09:28
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mib_ngbaqd	hola	Dec 27 09:39
schestowitz	Hey	Dec 27 09:41
schestowitz	What's up?	Dec 27 09:41
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mib_ngbaqd	BN got on a top ten blog list: http://www.junauza.com/2008/12...	Dec 27 09:48
schestowitz	Cool.	Dec 27 09:51
schestowitz	Getting credit from one of my favourtie blogs feels good.	Dec 27 09:52
schestowitz	Rockers to Press Obama on Music Torture < http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/1... >	Dec 27 10:33
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PetoKraus	thx for the email roy	Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz	np	Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz	I thought about this later	Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz	Microsoft has a nice cycle going	Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz	Microsoft earns money, some is passed to Gates (Foundation), which then funnels it back to governments, who in turn feel obliged to pay Microsoft excessively for software (BECTA and the NHS for example).	Dec 27 10:58
schestowitz	The way this is set up, politicians and Microsoft get rich in this closed cycle of money, where the 'feeder' in the taxpayer. GNU/Linux companies are locked out of this cycle because they can't introduce kickbacks and such. It's quite a classic structure of corruption.	Dec 27 10:59
MinceR	hay	Dec 27 11:52
schestowitz	Morning, mib_ngbaqd	Dec 27 11:53
schestowitz	*MinceR	Dec 27 11:53
schestowitz	Watch this comment in this Microsoft boot-licking post: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic...	Dec 27 11:55
schestowitz	"Source for the numbers?" ... "The company. I asked a spokeswoman." [oh yeah.. so we know how independent the blog is] .. "I'd love to see the breakout of donated cash vs. software. Giving away software for free (e.g. to schools) is just a way to get people hooked on the Microsoft product chain."	Dec 27 11:56
schestowitz	There are so many ads in that blog today... Jo has gone mad. Server viral marketing... cheap drug^H^H^H^HOffice	Dec 27 11:58
trmanco	was that you? :-P	Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz	I think that layoff speculations had the Microsoft bloggers who are /supposed/ to be impartial just huddle together	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	trmanco: no, someone else. I think I only left 3 comments in this blog... EVER.	Dec 27 11:59
trmanco	ok	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	Last one was to point out that he was boosting a Microsoft shill 'study' (attack on Google Apps from former Microsoft employees)	Dec 27 12:00
trmanco	hey cool	Dec 27 12:07
trmanco	what a warm welcome on COLA	Dec 27 12:07
trmanco	:D	Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz	Gary loves me	Dec 27 12:10
trmanco	what? is he gay or something?	Dec 27 12:10
schestowitz	I think so. Others think so too.	Dec 27 12:11
schestowitz	Gary loves me... to death. Hopefully he's broke enough that he can't make his death wishes and threats more than just words. I'm in a high-security area, so..	Dec 27 12:12
schestowitz	I'm waiting for that reply from ErikFu... let's see if he knows James.. http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/12/une...	Dec 27 12:14
trmanco	oo	Dec 27 12:16
trmanco	a Windows live site	Dec 27 12:17
schestowitz	He used to live in Australia briefly, but he came (back?) to Texas, which leaves me wondering what happened.	Dec 27 12:18
mib_ngbaqd	I tried reading more of that dude James' blog, but damn if it wasn't making me sick to my stomach	Dec 27 12:29
schestowitz	Which parts?	Dec 27 12:31
schestowitz	he embellishes, you know? What the memo in question. He talks about "Jihad" over and over again.	Dec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqd	just about everything from the first post on. So slimy and souless	Dec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqd	no self-respect, like the iraqi information minister or something	Dec 27 12:32
schestowitz	They work for money.	Dec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqd	so does blackwater	Dec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqd	so do drug dealers	Dec 27 12:33
schestowitz	I think education should intervene here and teach people that making money at the expense of ethics and other people's pain is not acceptable.	Dec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqd	yeah it's the pure lack of ethics that is disturbing	Dec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqd	it's almost sociopathic	Dec 27 12:34
schestowitz	Someone asked me: "What's that acronym that 'Waggener Edstrom' and/or MS uses when they are on a targeted propaganda blitz, SMOG or something ?" Well, it's the Slog (example from this morning < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/... >) But I thought the term was attributed to James P. Did anyone see W-E using this term? Is it a 'global' thing in MS Ecosystem?	Dec 27 12:35
schestowitz	If all the court evidence was in plain text, then it could be indexed and thus searched, but it's not. :-(	Dec 27 12:36
schestowitz	Here is a neat HTML version: http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cac...	Dec 27 12:41
mib_ngbaqd	some of those .ppt files might be nice ... "evangalism is war"?	Dec 27 12:43
schestowitz	I have bits of them and Groklaw has some too	Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz	This one is the best: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.ph...	Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz	She published this just before the BRM, IIRC, after I had sent her this material suggesting that she exposes Rick Jelliffe-like characters.	Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?... "I find it telling that Microsoft had to remind the Microserfs that they are, in fact, the good guys. Because that document reads to me like "We're the bad guys, and we're going to use any means, ethical or unethical, to crush the competition.""	Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz	"By using such concepts as evangelism and jihad, MS is aligning themselves with activities normally used by religious extremism. Jihad is a term more often associated today with terrorism. "Work for MS and become a commercial terrorist" The PDF is full of tried and tested brainwashing techniques. Apart from Microsoft, is this sort of thing generally practiced in American businesses? If so, I'm glad I don't work there, but I'm now m	Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz	ore scared of what MS will do in my country than I am of going to the middle east."	Dec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqd	I love this one: "In one piece of mail people were suggesting that Office had to work equally with all browsers and that we shouldn't force Office users to user our browser	Dec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqd	This is wrong and I wanted to correct this."	Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd	nice quote there	Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd	From: Bill Gates himself	Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz	Where is this quote of yours from?	Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz	mib_ngbaqd: really?	Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.i...	Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd	check it out	Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz	I know about that memo about "PROPRIETARY capabilities"	Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz	Wait, this is new to me	Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd	it goes on about proprietary HTML extensions as well	Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz	Let me see if I have the text.	Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd	it's a good one	Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz	Yes, but there is more than one.	Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz	Hold on.	Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd	"We want to make Trident extremely hard to clone. I think we want to patent elementts of Trident"	Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd	and so on	Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz	The one I think about is shown as an image at the bottom of: http://gotthefacts.org/	Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz	Scroll down	Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz	It's also OCRed	Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd	that is similar in message, but it is a different email	Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd	check the pdf link	Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd	it's pretty damning straight from BillG himself	Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz	Wow	Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz	This fits a post I was going to unleash this afternoon.	Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz	Good find.	Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz	Excellent work.	Dec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqd	heh. thanks	Dec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqd	You can't read that as anything but official MS policy. None of that "some divisions" working in some areas crap	Dec 27 12:53
schestowitz	All those memos contain a lot	Dec 27 12:53
schestowitz	The court didn't use them all.	Dec 27 12:54
schestowitz	Microsoft settled the case WITHIN WEEKS and the evidence requested burial	Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd	Yup. And check it out ... if you put that pdf together with the one at the bottom of the page you mention	Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd	that alone shows BillG pushing the message for 2 years	Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd	jan 97 - dec 98	Dec 27 12:54
schestowitz	The original Comes vs Microsoft site went down (pw-protected) very abruptly... no time for people to know about the settlement and arhive.	Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd	so it's not a once-in-a-while thing	Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz	Good point	Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz	The other messages more people are familiar with	Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz	We circulated it more widely.	Dec 27 12:55
mib_ngbaqd	I'm gonna look through those docs a bit more ... i think a post of straight up BillG messages like that would be pretty powerful	Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz	If you read them for leisure and come across the smoke, then holler	Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz	There's lots of dross and cruft in there, but the plaintiff knew what to show the judge	Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz	They had some accompanying notes... these are just to be treated like appendices.	Dec 27 12:57
schestowitz	See http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-m...	Dec 27 13:08
mib_ngbaqd	BillG:	Dec 27 13:38
mib_ngbaqd	"We should design some of our extensions explicitly so that IBM can't run them under OS/2. We need to put real thinking into this."	Dec 27 13:38
schestowitz	I turned it into a .SIG	Dec 27 13:41
schestowitz	I'd post it as large-sized quote on occasions	Dec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacons...	Dec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqd	That's in 91, so that shows ~8 years of the "incompatibility strategy"	Dec 27 13:42
mib_ngbaqd	I'm just looking for quotes straight from BillG or Ballmer on it right now	Dec 27 13:42
schestowitz	Excellent.	Dec 27 13:44
schestowitz	They rarely talk these two...	Dec 27 13:47
schestowitz	I don't see them E-mailing each other directly... rarely if not never.	Dec 27 13:47
mib_ngbaqd	BillG (On some proposed extensions):	Dec 27 13:54
mib_ngbaqd	"I have decided that we should not publish these extensions. We should wait until we have a way to so a hight level of integration that will be harder for the likes of Notes, Wordperfect to achieve, and which will give Office a real advantage."	Dec 27 13:55
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...	Dec 27 13:55
schestowitz	Excellent, I'll post this now.	Dec 27 13:56
mib_ngbaqd	And here is that one from the Russian site, except direct link to PDF:	Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...	Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqd	That's about office depending on proprietary IE capabilities and so on.	Dec 27 13:57
schestowitz	I have a longer post coming, but I'll set focus on this one.	Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd	BillG:	Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd	"One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somewhow Windows specific."	Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd	"It seemes unfortunate if we do this wrok and get our partners to do the work and the reresult is that Linux works great without hacving to do the work"	Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqd	"...Or maybe we could patent something related to this"	Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowac...	Dec 27 13:59
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2...	Dec 27 14:01
schestowitz	mib_ngbaqd: that's a classic (ACPI)	Dec 27 14:01
schestowitz	I wrote about it many times. I submitted it to Digg and it made the front page, Wikipedia article on ACPI, etc.	Dec 27 14:02
schestowitz	So it's known to many more people who now disseminate this information.	Dec 27 14:02
schestowitz	What you do it hugely valuable in seeding knowledge about smoking guns	Dec 27 14:02
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mib_ngbaqd	"Bill Gates ordered to all application business units to include checking routines of operating environments and if it is Microsoft DOS, nothing will happen.	Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqd	But if it is non-MS-DOS (such as DR-DOS), application will display messages...	Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iow...	Dec 27 14:05
schestowitz	Good one.	Dec 27 14:05
schestowitz	The rest is important though	Dec 27 14:06
schestowitz	It says "this application have been developed ans tested for MS-DOS"	Dec 27 14:06
schestowitz	It's different from Brad Silverberg on actually faking errors	Dec 27 14:06
mib_ngbaqd	Right, just didn't want to type the whole thing out. I'm lazy :)	Dec 27 14:07
mib_ngbaqd	and bad typist	Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz	I was going to stick with another quote	Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz	I have a post coming later	Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz	I don't want to post too fast.	Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz	And I need to proofread it properly.	Dec 27 14:07
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mib_ngbaqd	haha ... Jim Allchin: "I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft'	Dec 27 14:11
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon...	Dec 27 14:12
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schestowitz	That's a well known one.	Dec 27 14:14
schestowitz	There are better ones from Allchin	Dec 27 14:14
schestowitz	Like.. "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger….If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger."	Dec 27 14:15
mib_ngbaqd	BillG: "It hink supporting JDK 1.2 is fine and I am hard core about NOT supporting JDK 1.2"	Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqd	"I think supporting JDK 1.1 is fine..."	Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www....	Dec 27 14:25
schestowitz	Wow	Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz	Like ODF	Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz	Same versions	Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz	I'll just point out that when Microsoft declared support for ODF 1.1 people were like "What?!?! Why not 1.2?"	Dec 27 14:26
mib_ngbaqd	Actual code to display a "this is not MS-DOS and may void your warranty message"	Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqd	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...	Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqd	that's too technical for a blog post, i just think the message is funny	Dec 27 14:28
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 27 14:29
schestowitz	Reminds me of Vista jokes that show source code that's simplified	Dec 27 14:29
*schestowitz edits the text with the code :-)		Dec 27 14:41
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mib_ngbaqd	hey clean up that quote a little on the front page man!	Dec 27 15:21
schestowitz	Which one?	Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz	I found a typo	Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz	hight	Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz	Fixed it some minutes ago	Dec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqd	so ... do	Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz	aspell detected and underlines it. FF didn't	Dec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqd	not "so a high" ... "do a high"	Dec 27 15:25
schestowitz	Fixed	Dec 27 15:25
mib_ngbaqd	there you go ... you know people would rather nit-pick shit like that than debate a real point	Dec 27 15:26
schestowitz	Typos too?	Dec 27 15:30
schestowitz	I know Groklaw is paranoid about typos cause people use that to discredit the text. So she always writes something like, "for accuracy, use the PDF"	Dec 27 15:31
mib_ngbaqd	yeah, you have to pay attention like that, because most of the time pro-MS / pro-Novell people don't have a real argument	Dec 27 15:32
mib_ngbaqd	so it's shit like personal attacks and grammar/spelling nit-picking and such	Dec 27 15:32
schestowitz	I just keep my personal life more private, but schestowitz.com makes it harder to 'pull an incognito'	Dec 27 15:33
zoobab	live from Berlin	Dec 27 16:24
schestowitz	mib_ngbaqd: thanks for making this post possible: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/m...	Dec 27 16:28
schestowitz	zoobab: will you rebut OIN when you get back to Brussels?	Dec 27 16:29
schestowitz	Because I want to post something.	Dec 27 16:29
zoobab	I need to write an article about what is wron with collective shileds	Dec 27 16:30
zoobab	shields	Dec 27 16:30
zoobab	but it is Maginot Line	Dec 27 16:31
zoobab	I think it is a good analogy	Dec 27 16:31
zoobab	and good PR	Dec 27 16:31
schestowitz	Good PR for who? Berlin?	Dec 27 16:34
schestowitz	Reader: "I was just wondering if there was a MS policy on how to handle naughty tech journalists or OSS advocates, such as disrupting their forums. Tactics like, joining up and pretending to be reasonable advocates, but slowly turning weird and abusing others. In other words trolling. But we would need strong evidence of such activities and a trail leading right back to W-E."	Dec 27 16:35
schestowitz	"What you should do is get some disinterested party to subscribe to a MS FUD-pack. That way they'll have advance warning of the next wave of BS ."	Dec 27 16:35
mib_ngbaqd	good post	Dec 27 16:36
schestowitz	Thanks. I have more on the way, but I'll keep them for later	Dec 27 16:39
mib_ngbaqd	typo? "momentary filp"	Dec 27 16:40
trmanco	http://www.digibarn.com/collections/...	Dec 27 16:42
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schestowitz	Just got a pointer to this front pager: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_fu... mailed says: "This type of stuff gets me really riled up... Meeks and Novell out to damage our community..." It's old news. Can anyone type up a rebuttal against MSNOV go-oo?	Dec 27 18:11
schestowitz	Don't touch Microsoft/Novell Go-OO. It's a trap.	Dec 27 18:13
trmanco	ballnux doesn't work pretty well >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost...	Dec 27 18:41
schestowitz	I'll do a post	Dec 27 18:43
schestowitz	In COLA, I say nothing about SUSE	Dec 27 18:44
schestowitz	Keeping it invisible is the best one can do so that people don't consider it as an option	Dec 27 18:44
trmanco	I can't seem to find any good experiences today, but I'll keep lookin	Dec 27 18:45
trmanco	found one	Dec 27 18:46
trmanco	sort of	Dec 27 18:47
schestowitz	Support forums are for problems.	Dec 27 18:48
trmanco	yes but some forums have a testimonial/experiences section	Dec 27 18:49
schestowitz	Oh wait!	Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz	It's from 3 weeks ago!	Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz	That's pre-release or 11.0	Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz	Ah well..	Dec 27 18:54
trmanco	dang	Dec 27 18:54
trmanco	I forgot to check that	Dec 27 18:55
schestowitz	Just FYI. It's the beginning of mass exposition. < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/mic... > I receive some E-mails about it that are interesting but am not allowed to publish	Dec 27 19:39
schestowitz	Judging by the response from The ErikFU troll at COLA, he too is likely one of the TEs ((shills)	Dec 27 19:39
trmanco	LOL	Dec 27 19:46
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seller_liar	I was thinking	Dec 27 19:49
trmanco	th trolls suddenly exploded on COLA against you this week	Dec 27 19:50
seller_liar	me?	Dec 27 19:50
schestowitz	Go-OOXML: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2...	Dec 27 19:50
seller_liar	Opensuse includes moonson	Dec 27 19:51
seller_liar	a mono torrent app	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	It occured to me that this would be an effective way to have people shun the Novell/MS fork of OOo	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	Call it Go-OOXML	Dec 27 19:51
seller_liar	http://www.monsoon-project.org	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	trmanco: they are getting badly explosed	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	*exposed	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	They may also be losing their job	Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	One of the E-mail I've just received confirms that Microsoft has its Munchkins game a very large technology site	Dec 27 19:52
trmanco	seller_liar, do you consider yourself a troll? do you post on COLA?	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	seller_liar: yes, I know	Dec 27 19:52
*seller_ (i=c95f3197@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-27e39ed06afc8e8a) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	Novell wants Mono to succeed.	Dec 27 19:52
seller_	again	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	trmanco: huh?	Dec 27 19:52
seller_	Opensuse Already includes monsoon	Dec 27 19:52
seller_	11.1	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	Lucian is not in COLA and he's not a troll, either.	Dec 27 19:53
trmanco	well, if they lose there job they can finally start a new year with a new real job	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	They can't	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	They're f*ed	Dec 27 19:53
seller_	Lucian?	Dec 27 19:53
trmanco	who is lucian?	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	*en?	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	I thought it was his name.	Dec 27 19:53
seller_	Oh , the irc name is not my real name	Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz	Never mind.	Dec 27 19:54
*seller_liar has quit (Client Quit)		Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz	seller_: ah, OK	Dec 27 19:54
trmanco	:-P	Dec 27 19:54
seller_	Explain me trmanco	Dec 27 19:54
seller_	Cola trolls was attackinm me?	Dec 27 19:54
trmanco	no	Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz	seller_liar will have people prejudiced, think you are trolling by seling lies.	Dec 27 19:54
trmanco	COLA trolls are stacking Roy, aggressively	Dec 27 19:55
trmanco	attacking*	Dec 27 19:55
seller_	trmanco: ok	Dec 27 19:55
seller_	http://www.monsoon-project.org	Dec 27 19:55
seller_	trmanco: thanks	Dec 27 19:55
seller_	Mono strategy :	Dec 27 19:55
seller_	Argument : best technical app using c#	Dec 27 19:56
trmanco	:\|	Dec 27 19:56
trmanco	...	Dec 27 19:56
trmanco	I didn't even know this existed	Dec 27 19:56
seller_	and then replace the current app	Dec 27 19:56
seller_	Example rythmybox - > banshee	Dec 27 19:56
seller_	Ubuntu torrent -> Moonson	Dec 27 19:57
trmanco	no ways	Dec 27 19:57
seller_	trmanco: what?	Dec 27 19:57
trmanco	Transmission owns on my Ubuntu installation	Dec 27 19:57
seller_	trmanco: But stay alert	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	trmanco: stacking too	Dec 27 19:59
seller_	trmanco: Someday probably people will tell :	Dec 27 19:59
trmanco	schestowitz, I have to check what stacking means, it was a typo	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	Like stacking a panel, pretending to be more than they are by multi-nymming.	Dec 27 19:59
seller_	"Wow , moonson is better , I do not want transmission anymore	Dec 27 19:59
trmanco	schestowitz, thanks, you saved me some seconds :-P	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	seller_: yes, that was predictable	Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz	They sponsor banshee now	Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz	It also become a video player	Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz	Search BN archives and you'll see our posts about Windows DRM too.	Dec 27 20:00
seller_	schestowitz: Yes , I know	Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz	seller_: they try to make non-Mono apps a second-best choice	Dec 27 20:01
seller_	schestowitz:	Dec 27 20:01
schestowitz	It's like selling proprietary apps based on preinstallation or temptation.	Dec 27 20:01
seller_	schestowitz: yes, but the real problem is IKVM and Ja.net	Dec 27 20:02
seller_	These projects tries to transform all java codebase in c# codebase	Dec 27 20:02
seller_	The solution for this problem is to promove another high-level language	Dec 27 20:04
seller_	and to port mono to java	Dec 27 20:04
schestowitz	Yes, I know.	Dec 27 20:04
schestowitz	What about Parrot?	Dec 27 20:05
seller_	parrot is Virtual machine	Dec 27 20:06
seller_	It's not a real framework	Dec 27 20:06
seller_	http://www.gnu.org/software/sather/	Dec 27 20:06
seller_	It's a good language capable to compete with c#	Dec 27 20:06
seller_	And we need to implement .net to java	Dec 27 20:06
seller_	We does not permit to push all java devs to c#	Dec 27 20:07
seller_	We do not	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	Sun has a project to achieve this, no?	Dec 27 20:08
seller_	schestowitz: What project?	Dec 27 20:09
schestowitz	I thought you'd shown me something.	Dec 27 20:09
seller_	I remeber , net2java	Dec 27 20:10
seller_	schestowitz: But the development has been stop	Dec 27 20:10
seller_	stopped	Dec 27 20:10
seller_	and It's not a real framework like jython or jruby	Dec 27 20:11
seller_	It's only a source code converter	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	Ask Sun about it.	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	With .NET, Microsoft hopes to get DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1	Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz	It's also fighting to control hypervisors and 'clouds' right now, in addition to formats	Dec 27 20:12
seller_	schestowitz: And weakens java , and gives more power to M$	Dec 27 20:12
seller_	schestowitz: VirtualBox works in Windowz?	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	Yes, also platform discrimination and patents.	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	They use AstroTurfers to promote .NET	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	Among other technologies like XAML (Silver Lie)	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	I hope to have them busted for their illegal behviour (it breaks EU law)	Dec 27 20:14
seller_	schestowitz: I know ,but M$ will never change	Dec 27 20:14
seller_	seller_: Every company of this world tries to be unique	Dec 27 20:15
seller_	schestowitz: Every company of this world tries to be unique	Dec 27 20:15
seller_	schestowitz: For example , Intel conquer all processors market	Dec 27 20:15
schestowitz	Some break laws; some don;t	Dec 27 20:15
schestowitz	Microsoft violates EU laws.	Dec 27 20:15
seller_	schestowitz: and then Intel tries to conquer all vga market	Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz	It should be fined or embargoed. I have lots of evidence.	Dec 27 20:16
seller_	schestowitz: I know , but there are a lot of lobby	Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz	In fact, class action lawsuit can be organised by their victims.	Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz	Lobby should be illegal too	Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz	FFII doesn't agree with me	Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz	Lobby=legalised corruption	Dec 27 20:16
seller_	schestowitz: Lobby is a crime	Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz	It's like that Kissinger-type mafia-wannabe politics	Dec 27 20:17
seller_	schestowitz: It's a way to put all company desires over community and societyty desires	Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz	Or Abramoff	Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz	Practical crimes!= ethical crimes	Dec 27 20:18
schestowitz	Remember who writes (buys) the law . ;-)	Dec 27 20:18
seller_	Lobby should be considered a crime	Dec 27 20:19
seller_	We don t never support lobby	Dec 27 20:19
seller_	I was thinking .....	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	There are rules on limitation, but they are poorly enforced	Dec 27 20:20
seller_	A m$ shill is :	Dec 27 20:20
seller_	Pro intel	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	In the UK for example...	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	Intel has its own army of lobbyists	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	I used to track it more closely in Intel's case and I have proof	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	I wrote this yesterday: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/...	Dec 27 20:21
seller_	How to detect a m$ shill	Dec 27 20:22
seller_	He likes intel	Dec 27 20:22
seller_	He hates firefox	Dec 27 20:22
seller_	and he hates free movement (not only opensource movement)	Dec 27 20:22
seller_	A lot of m$ shills hates stallman	Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz	They try to poison people against him	Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz	This makes him a taboo for some	Dec 27 20:24
schestowitz	It they glue labels like "communism" onto him, then they hope that others will dissociate themselves from GNU.	Dec 27 20:24
seller_	Comunnism are words of m$ to try to destroy free movement	Dec 27 20:25
seller_	free software is not communism	Dec 27 20:25
seller_	It's only fair reason:	Dec 27 20:25
seller_	software is not a material thing, it 's only a materialized idea	Dec 27 20:26
schestowitz	It's the opposite	Dec 27 20:27
schestowitz	Free software is democracy	Dec 27 20:27
schestowitz	Communism is having no choice.	Dec 27 20:28
MinceR	what can i show m$ fanboys who repeat the "equally evil" argument?	Dec 27 20:28
seller_	proprietary software is communism	Dec 27 20:28
schestowitz	MinceR: lots	Dec 27 20:28
schestowitz	They use their shills to sing this.	Dec 27 20:28
seller_	MinceR: Try to count how many attacks some company does	Dec 27 20:28
seller_	For example , novell is evil , but M$ is a LOT more evil	Dec 27 20:29
schestowitz	Good essay: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/20...	Dec 27 20:29
seller_	seller_: MinceR :Try to explain the real intention of company	Dec 27 20:30
seller_	MinceR: For example , some troll tries to explain what is Sun is evil	Dec 27 20:30
schestowitz	Microsoft's man in Europe carries communist-era baggage < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto... >	Dec 27 20:30
seller_	MinceR: Sun is not evil , because Sun have good intentions about free software	Dec 27 20:31
schestowitz	seller_: they sell hardware	Dec 27 20:31
seller_	MinceR: But m$ has not, instead , m$ have bad intentions	Dec 27 20:31
schestowitz	OpenSolaris they are hoping to bundle with servers.	Dec 27 20:31
seller_	schestowitz: But OpenSolaris is very memor consuming	Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz	Microsoft has h/w like mice and some disasters like XBox and Zune that lose $billions	Dec 27 20:32
MinceR	sun doesn't have good intentions about all free software	Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz	So Microsoft was never able to succeed at the h/w business.	Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz	That's why it attacks F/OSS	Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz	Microsoft lets Dell et al choke on thin (razer-thin) margins.	Dec 27 20:33
schestowitz	Brainwash of choice: tubes... http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22479/1054/ (U.S. uses Internet over newspapers, but TV still tops)	Dec 27 20:35
schestowitz	Apple’s next hot product: the iLoo < http://www.deviceguru.com/apples-next-... >	Dec 27 20:36
schestowitz	A good place for dropping the iX where they belong... and flush.	Dec 27 20:37
MinceR	yes, but how do you get rid of the iLoo?	Dec 27 20:40
trmanco	I've just posted some experiences on COLA	Dec 27 20:43
trmanco	this time Linux Mint 6	Dec 27 20:43
schestowitz	MinceR: it sucks itself in	Dec 27 20:44
schestowitz	Like a toilet on a plane	Dec 27 20:44
MinceR	that's nice	Dec 27 20:53
MinceR	best feature in a crApple product ever	Dec 27 20:54
trmanco	what do you prefer? POP or IMAP ?	Dec 27 20:57
MinceR	depends on what for	Dec 27 20:57
trmanco	email	Dec 27 20:57
trmanco	personal email	Dec 27 20:57
MinceR	i prefer POP3 to fetch all my mail onto my personal imap server	Dec 27 20:58
MinceR	and i prefer IMAP to access it there	Dec 27 20:58
schestowitz	This guy could use an iLoo: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/...	Dec 27 20:58
schestowitz	"APPLE MESSIAH Steve Jobs has been a bit sick lately but according to US gossip reports it could be a lot worse than anyone thought. The sultan of smug has been seen parking his motor in a disabled carparks in Palo-Alto much to the horror of Apple fans who believe him to be capable of healing the sick with his beautiful entertainment toys."	Dec 27 20:58
seller_	schestowitz Why to a be a fan of monster of business?	Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz	Money	Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz	Monsters befriend monsters	Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz	Then they perfume it to themselves	Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz	"I'm just writing code"	Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz	"I'm just carrying an artillery shell"	Dec 27 21:01
schestowitz	"I'm just flying CIA sharpshooters in a helicopter"	Dec 27 21:01
seller_	schestowitz: Money transforms monster in prince via brainwashing	Dec 27 21:01
schestowitz	"I'm just annoying people with telemarketing call so that I can feed my baby"	Dec 27 21:01
trmanco	grr	Dec 27 21:04
trmanco	my bnc went offline for a couple of minutes	Dec 27 21:04
schestowitz	bnc?	Dec 27 21:07
schestowitz	Just got this: ""Yeah, Meeks has been out to do as much damage as he can to OOo. I'm not sure what his motivation is but it does not matter. What is a good approach to neutralize his rants?""	Dec 27 21:28
schestowitz	"In general, MS proxies have been running such campaigns against Sun. OOo is hurting MS more than most people could ever imagine. OpenDocument Format is only a small part of that. OOo marketing needs to put down Meeks, warn of the dangers in his fork of OOo, and steer people to the real OOo."	Dec 27 21:29
schestowitz	I got some E-mails about Debian too. But it must remain private	Dec 27 21:29
schestowitz	"Unfortunately, Debian is going to become the battle ground, if it has not already. Same for KDE."	Dec 27 21:29
trmanco	schestowitz, yes a bouncer, psyBNC	Dec 27 21:30
trmanco	http://www.gnome.org/~michael/bl...	Dec 27 21:39
schestowitz	Is this the old one?	Dec 27 21:40
trmanco	"Why is my bug not fixed ? why is the UI still so unpleasant ? why is performance still poor ? why does it consume more memory than necessary ? why is it getting slower to start ? why ? why ? - the answer lies with developers: Will you help us make OpenOffice.org better ? if so, probably the best place to get started is by playing with go-oo.org and getting in touch, please mail us. "	Dec 27 21:40
trmanco	don't know	Dec 27 21:40
schestowitz	FUD	Dec 27 21:41
trmanco	it's on digg	Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz	Yes, I know	Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz	I wonder who Dugg this very old news	Dec 27 21:41
trmanco	my bouncer went offline again :(	Dec 27 21:41
trmanco	650 diggs	Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz	I submitted a rebuttal at the time and it got about 90 Diggs	Dec 27 21:41
trmanco	don't like the first comments so far	Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz	I posted a comment, but too late	Dec 27 21:41
trmanco	found a good one	Dec 27 21:43
trmanco	"I'm not buying this either. This is another attempt by Microsoft to come through the backdoor. Remember the Microsoft strategy: embrace, extend, exterminate. They've already 'embraced' open source by admitting that it is a threat. They tried to 'extend' it by making patent-protection deals (read: extortion) with companies like Novell, Xandros, Linspire, etc. and now they want to exterminate projects like OO.o by convincing developers to fight am	Dec 27 21:43
trmanco	ongst themselves and work on alternatives like Novell's go-oo.org. Don't believe ANYONE who works for a Linux or OSS company deals with Microsoft. They aren't out to help OSS. Microsoft wants to control it and kill it (regardless of what they tell you in their press releases). This is a classic trojan horse. "	Dec 27 21:43
trmanco	finally	Dec 27 21:44
schestowitz	Haha. http://shanghaiist.com/2008/12/27/chinese_n... So it's kinda like the US, but it's "them", not "us" (or "US"). So when does the Republic of the People buy GM and Citigroup?	Dec 27 21:46
*seller_ has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")		Dec 27 21:49
schestowitz	OK, I've left another comment: "A change is still being negotiated. Things have happened since it all blew up (Kohei solver). A better name for Go-OO would be MS-Go-OO-XML. Novell was a promoter of OOXML and Microsoft used this to ram it down ISO's throat."	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	"I suppose you don't think about the patents associated with it and the Mono (.NET). It's an attack on Java too, to elevate the Microsoft API. There is also a good chance that Microsoft will buy Novell some time in the future, along with its copyrighted assets that include many GNU/Linux programs. "	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	"They would also buy out the WordPerfect lawsuit that way (about a third of Novell's market cap). Based on Sun's word, Go-OO is a fork. Novell's friends would try to deny this."	Dec 27 21:54
trmanco	:)	Dec 27 21:56
*kapipi has quit ("Ah Nah!")		Dec 27 22:25
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 22:33
schestowitz	The Gartner Gang must be paid lots of money from Novell/Microsoft to produce this propaganda: http://www.moreinterop.com/download.aspx...	Dec 27 23:50

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 27th, 2008

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