05.05.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 4th, 2009
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | Came out of nowhere from a NOVELL employee | May 04 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tacone | we’ll see. | May 04 00:00 |
| schestowitz | They sacked him, so he ruins their crown jewel | May 04 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Moved to Fedora too | May 04 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Red Hat will hire him | May 04 00:00 |
| tacone | maybe not. | May 04 00:00 |
| tacone | problem is, a port is never enough. | May 04 00:00 |
| tacone | but let’s wait. possibly a dev team will form | May 04 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Well, for starters… | May 04 00:07 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Yes, the Mono folks are nervous right now. | May 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | gnote is a good way to begin the coversation about the issues with Mono | May 04 00:07 |
| tacone | the real impact it can have is getting included in redhat | May 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | People begin to engage in the debate they read about | May 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | They see arguments over Mono | May 04 00:07 |
| tacone | as red hat doesn’t include mono apps by default | May 04 00:07 |
| tacone | that’d bring devs. | May 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | A lot of people never knew about the controversy | May 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Now they know | May 04 00:07 |
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| Balrog_ | schestowitz: still here? | May 04 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Yep, what’s up? | May 04 01:04 |
| Balrog_ | some chinese site reposted the lwn article | May 04 01:04 |
| Balrog_ | it’s pro-Tomboy, btw | May 04 01:05 |
| Balrog_ | and attacks relicensing under GPL3 | May 04 01:05 |
| Balrog_ | did you see the article? | May 04 01:07 |
| Balrog_ | << schestowitz | May 04 01:07 |
| schestowitz | He praised gnote for technical aspects | May 04 01:08 |
| Balrog_ | for the most part … | May 04 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Insults don’t worry me. | May 04 01:50 |
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| oiaohm | Mono guys have been shocked by how fast it has taken for tomboy to loss traction. | May 04 01:51 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: just wondering what thread I was insulted on. | May 04 01:52 |
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| schestowitz | Jo’s | May 04 01:58 |
| schestowitz | monkey site | May 04 01:58 |
| schestowitz | gn | May 04 01:58 |
| oiaohm | http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/r… << This one schestowitz | May 04 02:00 |
| oiaohm | He kinda walked straight into it. | May 04 02:00 |
| oiaohm | First post was bate. | May 04 02:00 |
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| Sweeds strike back. http://www.afterdawn.com/news/a… | May 04 03:08 | |
| Good for them. All ISPs should be like that. | May 04 03:08 | |
| Snooping on email and web traffic does not solve crimes, it is itself a crime that enables other forms of oppression. | May 04 03:10 | |
| RMS blasts Apple http://www.stallman.org/archi… May 2009 (DMCA to censor discussion) | May 04 03:17 | |
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| “Apple is as nasty and vicious as Microsoft, and people should think of it as an enemy.” | May 04 03:17 | |
| That’s a powerful opinion. I wonder if he knows just how bad M$ has been. | May 04 03:17 | |
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| Wow, what a bunch of asses. http://www.prwatch.org/node/8351 | May 04 04:32 | |
| An energy industry lobby group ignored the advice of their own scientists in order to lie about climate change. | May 04 04:33 | |
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| schestowitz | http://www.kansascity.com/105/… | May 04 07:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/ent… | May 04 07:42 |
| schestowitz | Mental monopolies watch: Consumers International IP Watch List Report 2009 < http://a2knetwork.org/watchlist > | May 04 07:45 |
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| MinceR | j0 | May 04 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Subject: [PATCH] Add CONFIG_MONO_NO_CREATE WITH_MS_PATENTS option < http://boycottnovell.com/2009… > | May 04 08:58 |
| schestowitz | Based on my memory alone, this was said before it turned out that Miguel knows the man called LinuxHater: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/04/mig… | May 04 09:11 |
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| tacone | i loved linux hater as well in the past | May 04 09:12 |
| amarsh04 | gnote has been requested for inclusion in Debian (the submitter is a Debian developer for GRUB): http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-b… | May 04 09:13 |
| tacone | in a way i think it will be difficult not to include it in ubuntu if it makes it in debian desktop. | May 04 09:13 |
| tacone | that sai, ubuntu has a handful of mono lovers. | May 04 09:14 |
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| tacone | reading last development i should call them mono activists. as they’re actively pushing for mono because it’s mono. | May 04 09:16 |
| tacone | also schestowitz, ping | May 04 09:16 |
| tacone | schestowitz: call me prv when you get back. | May 04 09:17 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, tacone | May 04 09:59 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05… Microsoft Fights to Make GNU/Linux a Fringe Phenomenon | May 04 10:00 |
| tacone | schestowitz: i wrote you in prv. | May 04 10:00 |
| schestowitz | oh | May 04 10:01 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 04 10:01 |
| schestowitz | TuxMachines cites it a lot too | May 04 10:01 |
| schestowitz | No blog posts while away….. http://www.stefanoforenza.com/ | May 04 10:02 |
| tacone | ? | May 04 10:02 |
| tacone | i have been in paris 2 weeks. | May 04 10:03 |
| tacone | schestowitz: query me. | May 04 10:03 |
| schestowitz | No Internet in Paris? :-p | May 04 10:03 |
| schestowitz | Query about what? | May 04 10:04 |
| tacone | not that much. and no time. | May 04 10:04 |
| tacone | nothing, leave it alone. | May 04 10:04 |
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| amarsh04 | quite a lot of discussion on gnote in the page referenced by the URL I posted | May 04 10:09 |
| iwmw | does gnote break any patents and is it gpled? | May 04 10:10 |
| benJIman | Almost certainly violates patents, what software doesn’t. | May 04 10:11 |
| schestowitz | It’s gplv3 | May 04 10:13 |
| schestowitz | The question is, WHOSE patents. | May 04 10:13 |
| schestowitz | Also, how valid would a claim be? | May 04 10:14 |
| schestowitz | Mono is a case of stepping right on MS’ toes. | May 04 10:14 |
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| *benJIman giggles at boy calling linuxhater “an obscene anti-Linux blogger who flames GNU/Linux developers as well as recites and thus propagates old injurious myths.” after trolling gnu/linux developers & promoting myths about c# in the same post. | May 04 10:16 | |
| schestowitz | RMS re Phorm: “The B’liar/Clown policy towards business is, “Give business as much as the people will let us get away with.” This is typical of the governments serve as subalterns for the corporate empire.” | May 04 10:18 |
| schestowitz | The Green Party’s 100-Day Report Card http://greenparty.tribe.net/thr… | May 04 10:20 |
| schestowitz | FBI E-Mail Says Bush Authorized Abuse of Iraqis < http://www.pubrecord.org/tortu… > | May 04 10:21 |
| schestowitz | Polish pianist stops show with anti-US tirade < http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/a… > | May 04 10:25 |
| schestowitz | The press is dying. WPP To Cut 7,200 Positions This Year; About Half Of Cuts Have Already Taken Place < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/41… > | May 04 10:47 |
| zoobab01 | Microsoft has denied that its recent dust-up with TomTom over nine patents relating to car navigation technology ended when the Dutch company agreed a financial settlement of less than $500,000. The claim was made by Keith Bergelt, CEO of the Open Invention Network during a presentation he was giving at the European Patent Forum in Prague. At the time the settlement was announced, the amount involved was kept confidential. However, in response to .. | May 04 10:54 |
| zoobab01 | http://www.iam-magazine.com/… | May 04 10:54 |
| zoobab01 | http://www.iam-magazine.com/Blog/Detail… | May 04 10:54 |
| zoobab01 | you need a login to view the blog | May 04 10:54 |
| zoobab01 | please blog about it | May 04 10:54 |
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| Eruaran|alphates | A disgusting Microsoft proxy: www.consumerwatchdog.org | May 04 11:34 |
| Eruaran|alphates | A supposed consumer watchdog… search their site for “Microsoft” and what you get is a string of anti-Google articles. Microsoft, the Standard Oil of the IT world, gets only ever mentioned in a positive light. | May 04 11:35 |
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| Eruaran|alphates | Simply a pathetic and disgusting front. | May 04 11:36 |
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| schestowitz | Can you find a site about them? | May 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Maybe SourceWatch? | May 04 12:01 |
| iwmw | Brazil bypasses patent on Merck AIDS drug: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsd… | May 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C… | May 04 12:02 |
| schestowitz | # Consumer Watchdog (USA), an organization which advocates for taxpayer and consumer interests in the United States | May 04 12:02 |
| schestowitz | “formerly the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights)” | May 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | So they nymshift | May 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | That’s what companies that get expose do | May 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Like ATL=>ACT | May 04 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | “The group’s mission statement says “Big Business has an endless amount of money and thousands of lobbyists working every day to protect and increase their profits – no matter who it hurts. We get in their way and work to protect and improve the lives of American consumers and taxpayers.”” | May 04 12:04 |
| schestowitz | Yeah… like ACT ‘helps small businesses’ | May 04 12:04 |
| schestowitz | By legalising sw pats and working for OOXML | May 04 12:04 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of MS funding FUD. | May 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corp… “It’s Not Just Microsoft That’s Balking At Google’s Book Plans” | May 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Who funds these people? | May 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | There’s also this: http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corpor… | May 04 12:07 |
| schestowitz | The site runs Linux: http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_r… | May 04 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Let’s do whois | May 04 12:07 |
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| schestowitz | Domain ID:D863261-LROR | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Domain Name:CONSUMERWATCHDOG.ORG | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Created On:03-Jun-1997 04:00:00 UTC | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Last Updated On:07-Jun-2008 00:26:36 UTC | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Expiration Date:02-Jun-2010 04:00:00 UTC | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR) | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant ID:GODA-044511122 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Name:Doug Heller | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Organization:Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rig | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Street1:1750 Ocean Park Blvd. | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Street2:Ste 200 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Street3: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant City:Santa Monica | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant State/Province:California | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Postal Code:90405 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Country:US | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Phone:+1.3103920522 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Phone Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant FAX: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant FAX Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Registrant Email:webmaster@consumerwatchdog.org | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin ID:GODA-244511122 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Name:Doug Heller | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Organization:Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rig | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Street1:1750 Ocean Park Blvd. | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Street2:Ste 200 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Street3: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin City:Santa Monica | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin State/Province:California | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Postal Code:90405 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Country:US | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Phone:+1.3103920522 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Phone Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin FAX: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin FAX Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Admin Email:doug@consumerwatchdog.org | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech ID:GODA-144511122 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Name:Domain Direct | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Organization:TUCOWS.com Inc. | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Street1:96 Mowat Avenue | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Street2: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Street3: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech City:Toronto | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech State/Province:Ontario | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Postal Code:M6K3M1 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Country:CA | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Phone:+1.4165350123 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Phone Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech FAX:+1.4165315584 | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech FAX Ext.: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Tech Email:dnstech@domaindirect.com | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server:NS1.GRASSROOTS.COM | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server:NS2.GRASSROOTS.COM | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Name Server: | May 04 12:09 |
| schestowitz | ========= | May 04 12:10 |
| schestowitz | Name Server:NS1.GRASSROOTS.COM | May 04 12:10 |
| schestowitz | Grassroots? | May 04 12:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.hellerspringfield.com/more/bio.htm “Doug and his partners sold the company to Seattle-based Apex Learning, a company founded by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen.” I think it’s a different guy with the same name though | May 04 12:11 |
| oiaohm | http://www.grassroots.com/ Step back one. schestowitz. Its another site run by PR for higher. | May 04 12:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corp… “Interview on Corporate Crime with Doug Heller – Consumer Advocate with FTCR” | May 04 12:12 |
| oiaohm | At Grassroots Enterprise, we combine the best of cutting-edge Internet technology with tried and true communications strategies to build movements that make an impact. | May 04 12:12 |
| schestowitz | They say MS beats Google on privacy. They haven’t tried Vista, have they??  |
May 04 12:12 |
| oiaohm | The complete website is built by Grassroots. | May 04 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Also DNS hosted by them. | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | So it’s a PR? | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | But are they doing this for clients? | May 04 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Clients is still who. | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?titl… | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | This is a good source for the PR industry | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Let’s see….. | May 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | “combines online technology and communications strategy to help our clients achieve their public affairs objectives. Our proprietary technology Grassroots Multiplier® uses the Internet to centralize and simplify the recruitment, management, and mobilization of our clients’ supporters – employees, members, customers, vendors and other stakeholders who can grow into a long-term asset to our clients’ business.” | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | Our CLIENTS??? | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Arvind Rajan, Chairman | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * John Hlinko, CEO | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * David S. Chiu, Senior Vice President and General Counsel, Co-founder | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Robert Florian, Executive Vice President, Engineering | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Bill McIntyre Executive Vice President | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Kevin McCann, Executive Vice President, Client Services | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Mike Panetta, Vice President, Public Affairs and Emerging Media | May 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | * Kevin O’Neill, Managing Director | May 04 12:14 |
| oiaohm | http://www.grassroots.com/wha… << They are one of the nastier PR companies you can get. | May 04 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Yep spam hibrid with telemarketing hibrid with internet. | May 04 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | May 04 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I’ll post about it l8er | May 04 12:23 |
| oiaohm | http://cwd.grassroots.com/about/ I like how they say formally this other name even that they are still running website under the other name. | May 04 12:25 |
| oiaohm | PR games are PR games. There are a lot groups pushing there own ends. | May 04 12:27 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 04 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Let’s do a quick post | May 04 13:29 |
| Eruaran|alphates | sorry i was afk | May 04 13:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05… – Did Microsoft Hire Consumer Watchdog to Attack Google? | May 04 14:25 |
| oiaohm | There is a huge world of PR bending items. | May 04 14:40 |
| oiaohm | http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php… You really should have read who the vice president of grassroots.com | May 04 14:43 |
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| oiaohm | This PR game goes all the way to the USA white house. | May 04 14:48 |
| schestowitz | yeah, politics are a related mess: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph… | May 04 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Can’t ignore politics when dealing with IT lobbies | May 04 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Enough digging will find USA politics locked up in lot of grassroot stuff. | May 04 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Even worse parties having different people support incompadible ideas to get donations. | May 04 15:06 |
| oiaohm | USA political system is basically screwed. | May 04 15:07 |
| iwmw | usa political system was basicually screwed all the time | May 04 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Problem is the usa political system screwed ripples out and effects other things. | May 04 15:16 |
| schestowitz | Worldwide | May 04 15:17 |
| schestowitz | See regulation of banks for instance | May 04 15:17 |
| schestowitz | If you watch the analysis you will see the deregulation was lobbies for | May 04 15:17 |
| schestowitz | IIRC for sub-prime also | May 04 15:17 |
| schestowitz | A system that is policed by those whom it’s supposed to guard will entangle itself in corruption | May 04 15:17 |
| schestowitz | Obama is Bush’s successor in that regard. Industry said taxpayers should suffer even more by paying to buy companies more time | May 04 15:18 |
| schestowitz | And guess what Obama did? You always know. I think they renamed ‘bailout’ “stimulus”. It’s another art of nymshifts | May 04 15:18 |
| schestowitz | People resisted the bailout | May 04 15:18 |
| schestowitz | Historians will be confused by the diversity of terms | May 04 15:19 |
| schestowitz | So the stimulus was a second go under a different heading | May 04 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Like “harmonisation” in the EU | May 04 15:19 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 04 15:22 | |
| *twitter has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 04 15:31 | |
| schestowitz | “Superdelegates”…. | May 04 15:40 |
| schestowitz | As some say, the election in the US is essentially run by the PR industry. It’s like a contest for these. | May 04 15:40 |
| iwmw | the election in us is just a theatre with stand-alone jurys that set scores that they want to see | May 04 15:42 |
| iwmw | aka real rulers of US :)) | May 04 15:43 |
| *iwmw has quit (“Leaving”) | May 04 15:44 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/05/… “Mono is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches.” | May 04 16:06 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/conte… (IT&T joins other sectors in jobs death spiral) | May 04 16:49 |
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| mib_mqudvk | hi. is anyone one now? | May 04 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | May 04 16:57 |
| mib_8wo4qb | hey | May 04 16:57 |
| schestowitz | I see you reentered. Didn’t notice you coming | May 04 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Network connectivity issues here today | May 04 16:57 |
| mib_8wo4qb | This is Will. Got some ODF news for you | May 04 16:57 |
| schestowitz | So MS’ ‘support’ for ODF turns out to be a scam | May 04 16:58 |
| schestowitz | I saw Rob’s blog | May 04 16:58 |
| schestowitz | I probably should write about it now, not later, right? | May 04 16:58 |
| mib_8wo4qb | How did you know? ;) | May 04 16:58 |
| schestowitz | mib_8wo4qb: I saw the twit | May 04 16:58 |
| mib_8wo4qb | Groklaw has some stuff on it too | May 04 16:58 |
| mib_8wo4qb | http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph… | May 04 16:58 |
| schestowitz | “harishpillayRT: @cappellathx: is not surprised MS Office 2007 SP2 ODF support screws up big time. http://tinyurl.com/de6afl “ | May 04 16:58 |
| *schestowitz looks | May 04 16:59 | |
| mib_8wo4qb | Granted, the plural of “anecdote” is not necessarily “data”, but I’m not surprised about this | May 04 16:59 |
| mib_8wo4qb | I expect more of these reports to start showing up | May 04 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes, me too | May 04 17:03 |
| schestowitz | I suppose I won’t need to hurry much | May 04 17:04 |
| schestowitz | People already see this ‘news’ (expccted) in many places | May 04 17:04 |
| schestowitz | I’ll collect some more evidence | May 04 17:04 |
| schestowitz | It’s clear what Microsoft achieves by this | May 04 17:04 |
| mib_8wo4qb | Of course. “See. ODF is broken, so use OOXML instead.” | May 04 17:05 |
| mib_8wo4qb | The question is, are they doing this in a way that leaves them open for another EU investigation? | May 04 17:06 |
| mib_8wo4qb | Or, instead of my first “quote”, maybe “Hey! Look! We support ODF too (kind of), so you can keep buying MS Office!” | May 04 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 04 17:08 |
| schestowitz | It’s a bit of both | May 04 17:08 |
| schestowitz | ASAP putting some “ODF” label | May 04 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | mib_8wo4qb: do you read Groklaw? | May 04 17:10 |
| schestowitz | I’d like to know if Jesper/Alex/Doug or another one from the Microsoft anti-ODF cartel shows up in the comments on Weir’s analysis | May 04 17:11 |
| mib_8wo4qb | semi-regularly. More often when something is going on in the news (Like the TomTom case), less often when things seem to be quiet. | May 04 17:11 |
| mib_8wo4qb | I don’t usually read much in the comments. Mostly just the news and analysis. But PJ also does a good job of keeping the trolls out. | May 04 17:13 |
| schestowitz | By ignoring? | May 04 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Or does she still delete and toss out? | May 04 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Cause I believe this to be a defeatist approach | May 04 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Like censorship | May 04 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Woo… | May 04 17:16 |
| schestowitz | More MS layoffs | May 04 17:16 |
| schestowitz | I guess, “yay” | May 04 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Let me post about it to raise morale of BN readers | May 04 17:17 |
| mib_8wo4qb | Well, ok, she still deletes and toss out. Though I rarely if ever run into troll posts there. Don’t know if that means mostly diligent deletion or self-selecting readership. | May 04 17:18 |
| *schestowitz runs out of free pictures of sinking ships | May 04 17:22 | |
| mib_8wo4qb | well, gotta go for now. Looking forward to the ODF post, but yeah, take your time and get as much evidence as you can. | May 04 17:26 |
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| *_bgtr4 is now known as bgtr4 | May 04 17:35 | |
| schestowitz | A reliable source says that Microsoft will announce more layoffs tomorrow: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… | May 04 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Just got this: “Dear Roy Schestowitz, Starting later this month, the MATLAB Central File Exchange will adopt the well-known and widely used open-source BSD License as the standard license for posted content. As a File Exchange contributor, you are receiving notice of this new policy in advance of its implementation. No action is required now. We’ll contact you again when a FAQ list is available and you are able to update your exist | May 04 17:45 |
| schestowitz | ing files. “ | May 04 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Me?????? BSD?????? Wot wot wot?? | May 04 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Just got this: “Tax saving lobbying via Obama” — Obama seeks tax changes for U.S. firms overseas < http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO… > | May 04 17:47 |
| libervisco | hmm | May 04 17:47 |
| schestowitz | That charming OBAMAA. He takes from the poor and he… or wait.. I lost my train of thought. | May 04 17:48 |
| libervisco | yeah | May 04 17:49 |
| MinceR | he takes money from the rich and poor and gives control to the rich. | May 04 17:49 |
| MinceR | (certain rich, that is.) | May 04 17:49 |
| schestowitz | “Hey, John Sixpack, how ’bout ya gives me your tax for the next ten years so I can secure the bonus of GM’s CEO?” | May 04 17:49 |
| MinceR | |
May 04 17:49 |
| libervisco | I was reading that article about Banshee getting into Ubuntu, then following some links etc.. and.. | May 04 17:49 |
| schestowitz | It’s not there yet, but they lobby for it | May 04 17:50 |
| schestowitz | The Mono fans are breathing down Ubuntu’s neck because it’s their best injection vector (most users) | May 04 17:50 |
| libervisco | well, I actually tried Vista recently, and dual boot XP, I’m not a FOSS purist anymore, but I think the battle you’re in is really against corporatism and a lot of what you say makes sense in that way | May 04 17:50 |
| schestowitz | It’s hopeless if you raise the issue in Brainstorm or a bug report or even the forums. The Mono guards show up and attack the message/messenger | May 04 17:51 |
| libervisco | :S | May 04 17:51 |
| schestowitz | libervisco: if it’s not for Freedom, what else? | May 04 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Mac fans are pathetic in a way | May 04 17:51 |
| schestowitz | They just promote one multi-billion company over another | May 04 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Companies like that already spend billions on that (paying PR people). THey don’t need volunteers | May 04 17:52 |
| vida18 | Update on ODF Spreadsheet Interoperability. | May 04 17:52 |
| vida18 | http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/0… | May 04 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Goblin has just cause another Turfer: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/0… | May 04 17:52 |
| schestowitz | vida18: yes, I saw that | May 04 17:53 |
| schestowitz | I still accumulate stuff about it. It’s already out there, so we need a unique angle | May 04 17:53 |
| libervisco | schestowitz, it’s about freedom, yeah, but not necessarily as defined by RMS.. well, to stop beating around the bush, for me freedom is freedom from coercion, which means freedom from government and by extension freedom from corporatism | May 04 17:53 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | RMS is just one in many | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Tomorrow could be a happy day for Freedom | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft layoffs | May 04 17:54 |
| libervisco | so any company that uses legal threats (like patents).. isn’t really likable to me.. | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | maybe another 5000 to be let go. Who knows… | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | libervisco: RMS looks beyond software | May 04 17:54 |
| libervisco | well.. those are still just employees.. | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | i don’t know how long he has done that for. | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | libervisco: yes, and they can work for an ethical company | May 04 17:54 |
| schestowitz | There’s no lack for jobs | May 04 17:55 |
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| libervisco | I don’t know about that :S | May 04 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Any barrier as such is caused by culture | May 04 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Many people won’t work as farmers | May 04 17:55 |
| schestowitz | it’s inconveivable to them | May 04 17:55 |
| libervisco | I wont either and I don’t think they should | May 04 17:55 |
| schestowitz | RMS gets the stares when people are told that doing gardening is best than oppressive tools like Phorm | May 04 17:55 |
| MinceR | i won’t either | May 04 17:55 |
| libervisco | I think the problem is far more fundamental than any of these employees.. nowadays not even you and I can live a civil life without depending *to some extent* on the products of corporatism.. | May 04 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes, modern life is like that | May 04 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Even energy is like that | May 04 17:56 |
| libervisco | the issue isn’t us so much as it’s the fact we’re not being given much choice | May 04 17:56 |
| schestowitz | So when you take a shower you depend on the oil giants | May 04 17:56 |
| libervisco | *us | May 04 17:56 |
| libervisco | right.. | May 04 17:57 |
| schestowitz | It’s an unwinnable battle | May 04 17:57 |
| schestowitz | But you have regularisers | May 04 17:57 |
| libervisco | it’s not |
May 04 17:57 |
| libervisco | you just have to know where to strike | May 04 17:57 |
| schestowitz | Without them, you have things like slavery and cannibalism and who knows what else. | May 04 17:57 |
| libervisco | you chose MS and their particular fascist (corporatist) links.. | May 04 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Human kind advanced by banning all sorts of things including torture | May 04 17:58 |
| libervisco | but I’m gonna go even further | May 04 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Now that the US public is apathetic, US tortture make a comeback | May 04 17:58 |
| libervisco | yeah | May 04 17:58 |
| schestowitz | There are many other areas | May 04 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Like environment | May 04 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Techies and geeks rarely look into it | May 04 17:59 |
| libervisco | I’m gonna strike the concept of government and politics as a whole. My goal is to eradicate it completely in this century. | May 04 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes, a form of anarchism | May 04 18:01 |
| libervisco | that’s called striking the root, with it the cause of corporatism, environmentalist problems and most other things is down | May 04 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Which some people conveniently confuse with other stuff | May 04 18:01 |
| schestowitz | MinceR is an anarchist | May 04 18:01 |
| libervisco | market anarchist? | May 04 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Paternal authorities might work | May 04 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Some people think of anarchist as being not intellectuals but nutcases that mass-murdered people. | May 04 18:02 |
| libervisco | oh I know :S | May 04 18:02 |
| libervisco | that’s why I use the term “anarchist” sparsely and tend to use “voluntaryist” instead | May 04 18:03 |
| libervisco | http://wikipedia.com/wiki/vo… | May 04 18:03 |
| libervisco | in truth the only ones who ever mass murdered people were members of the government.. the latest example being the current US president.. http://obamabodycount.org/ | May 04 18:05 |
| libervisco | the trouble is that the system of government is completely based on mutually outsourced responsibility so nobody actually feels responsible for those crimes.. from soldiers and cops “just following orders” to the president “just doing what he’s elected to do” to the electorate “just choosing the lesser evil”.. | May 04 18:07 |
| libervisco | everyone plays the same bloody game | May 04 18:07 |
| libervisco | including corporations who “just maximize shareholder value”… | May 04 18:07 |
| libervisco | or even “serve the nation’s economy” | May 04 18:08 |
| schestowitz | Why Users Aren’t Moving to Linux < http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,10… > | May 04 18:11 |
| *schestowitz looks at http://obamabodycount.org/ | May 04 18:11 | |
| schestowitz | It’s not OBAMAA BTW | May 04 18:11 |
| schestowitz | I haven’t looked yet | May 04 18:11 |
| schestowitz | He’s like the PR person | May 04 18:11 |
| libervisco | well technically it’s nobody due to outsourced responsibility, nobody can be blamed entirely | May 04 18:13 |
| schestowitz | I though over a million were killed or misplaced in Iraq | May 04 18:14 |
| libervisco | not sure.. | May 04 18:15 |
| schestowitz | I agree with you for simple reasons | May 04 18:15 |
| schestowitz | A long time ago it was realised that mortal issues are more important than just ‘fair competition’ | May 04 18:15 |
| schestowitz | But that’s a very big game | May 04 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Many people involve and money weighed in trillions, not billions | May 04 18:16 |
| schestowitz | It’s also more scary for an activist | May 04 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Surveillance, life threats and all that. In IT you argue with engineers; with this ‘other’ thing you deal with soldiers, racists, and people who watch Fox ‘News’  |
May 04 18:17 |
| libervisco | eh right | May 04 18:17 |
| libervisco | I just think all these realms are on some fundamental level connected.. Both IT and other worlds exist in a market and this market’s functioning is completely disrupted by legalized coercion and violence | May 04 18:19 |
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| libervisco | so whenever you see a moral issue chances are part of the cause is institutionalized violence | May 04 18:20 |
| libervisco | patents are a clear cut example | May 04 18:20 |
| libervisco | the institution of a “corporation” is another | May 04 18:20 |
| libervisco | corporation isn’t a person nor a group of persons, it’s an imagined entity… and it has no soul | May 04 18:21 |
| schestowitz | I never heard of the notion of “institutionalized violence” | May 04 18:21 |
| libervisco | government is institutionalized violence | May 04 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | Either way, to me it’s the fun of exposing stuff I see. | May 04 18:21 |
| libervisco | because it has a monopoly on violence that people believe in | May 04 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Whether it changes much, who cares? | May 04 18:21 |
| libervisco | Changes? | May 04 18:21 |
| schestowitz | It’s the big broadcasters with millions of viewers that weird power. | May 04 18:22 |
| libervisco | they just share in the power | May 04 18:22 |
| schestowitz | If Fox shows an Arab he always carries a Stinger or something. That war propaganda channel isn’t even concealing what it does | May 04 18:22 |
| libervisco | tbh I think who exactly wields power is less important than the fact that people support anybody but themselves wielding power over themselves.. | May 04 18:22 |
| libervisco | no matter who it is, broadcasters, presidents, bankers elites or reptiles, if people didn’t SUBMIT, no such power would be possible to maintain | May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | It’s comforting to some | May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Being told what to do | May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Like blindly taking orders | May 04 18:23 |
| libervisco | unfortunately | May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Some people are the opposite of you | May 04 18:23 |
| libervisco | but that too has a cause |
May 04 18:23 |
| libervisco | a very very specific one |
May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | They flunked schools, they lost g/fs and now they just run to ‘friends’ in the army | May 04 18:23 |
| schestowitz | A lot of people in the army started up this way | May 04 18:24 |
| libervisco | right | May 04 18:24 |
| libervisco | indeed! | May 04 18:24 |
| libervisco | And why did they lose so much? | May 04 18:24 |
| schestowitz | In places where it’s mandatory there’s brainwash and peer pressuire | May 04 18:24 |
| libervisco | Why are they unhappy? | May 04 18:24 |
| schestowitz | People who won’t serve get vilified and aliennated (they are taught to do this) and those who do the ‘Rambo job’ are hailed as heroes | May 04 18:24 |
| libervisco | I’d say they weren’t allowed to flourish as individuals.. from the cradle onwards.. most parents still tyrannize kids.. | May 04 18:25 |
| libervisco | right! | May 04 18:25 |
| libervisco | so what’s the solution then? | May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | I don’t know | May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | I think there’s none | May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | It has been the same for ages | May 04 18:25 |
| libervisco | I do, it’s just not easy |
May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Even the Raman Empire still exists | May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | It’s mostly the Usian Army and its allies | May 04 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Now we have China rising with financial muscle over the US. It is also a dictatorship | May 04 18:26 |
| libervisco | The solution is to tell people to stop believing in violence and controlling each other, but not just to tell them to stop.. but lure them by asking if they want to rid themselves of imposed obligations they don’t like | May 04 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like a church job | May 04 18:26 |
| schestowitz | “Glory glory hallelujah” | May 04 18:26 |
| libervisco | and then when they pay some attention, tell them WHY and HOW it’s possible to have a civil society without violence (coercion, government) | May 04 18:26 |
| libervisco | nah | May 04 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Pastors do this in the opposite direction | May 04 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Junk food theories | May 04 18:26 |
| libervisco | Pastors are part of the problem | May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Why read a boom about evolution/ | May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Just pick lazy people and feed them miracles | May 04 18:27 |
| libervisco | Religion is a big part of the problem, superstition is the VERY reason people believe in violence | May 04 18:27 |
| libervisco | we need science, moral science | May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Another person take pride in a gun and military might | May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | We’re like stupid, stupid moneys | May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Monkeys haven’t figured out how to be equally destructive |
May 04 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Not just among our specicies but the whole planet | May 04 18:28 |
| libervisco | Anyway, I’ll link you to the site where I’ll do my part. Maybe it’ll shed some of your cynism  |
May 04 18:28 |
| libervisco | I’ll prove to you just what is possible |
May 04 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 04 18:28 |
| libervisco | meanwhile a good recommendation is FreedomainRadio.com | May 04 18:28 |
| libervisco | It’ll blow your freaking mind |
May 04 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Well, being cynical and some would say… well, not nihilist, but… I guess we just ought to do something we like and doesn’t hurt others | May 04 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Nobody changes much anyway | May 04 18:29 |
| schestowitz | But some people work jobs they hate to buts*it they don’t need | May 04 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Wage slavery | May 04 18:29 |
| libervisco | a problem with a solution as well | May 04 18:29 |
| schestowitz | I found some good channels in YouTube also | May 04 18:30 |
| schestowitz | (Yes, I know, it’s Flash) | May 04 18:30 |
| libervisco | and about people not changing, it’s a myth, I changed.. people change slowly all the time.. change is more of a constant than stagnation | May 04 18:30 |
| libervisco | the direction is what counts | May 04 18:30 |
| *schestowitz bookmarkrs Freedomain | May 04 18:30 | |
| libervisco | |
May 04 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Complacency comes later | May 04 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Like, when people are imprisoned by what people from UIpAbove{Tm} call ReaLife{tm} | May 04 18:31 |
| schestowitz | The LifeTreadmill | May 04 18:31 |
| schestowitz | I should point you to a good talk from Guy Kawasaki | May 04 18:31 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006… | May 04 18:32 |
| trmanco | hello | May 04 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | Has hub been in contact with anyone who is against Novell? | May 04 18:35 |
| schestowitz | [other than sam varghese] | May 04 18:35 |
| *schestowitz looks out the window as it raining again in Bank Holiday | May 04 18:36 | |
| libervisco | schestowitz, some good advice in that talk.. except 10 since that can actually be quite counter-joyous | May 04 18:39 |
| libervisco | schestowitz, btw, if you don’t like using flash I can recommend miro, you can subscribe to youtube channels (and other video sites, even searches) and download videos directly and view them in it |
May 04 18:44 |
| libervisco | unless you’re already using it of course |
May 04 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I do | May 04 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva comes with it | May 04 18:45 |
| libervisco | cool | May 04 18:45 |
| schestowitz | But as a ‘distributor’ I use Ogg | May 04 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Firefox will help some moree | May 04 18:46 |
| libervisco | right | May 04 18:46 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: what do you use to mirror web sites? | May 04 18:52 |
| schestowitz | wget | May 04 18:54 |
| Balrog_ | ok … someone wrote a script that uses wget to mirror a web site, then compresses it with rar … rar is proprietary but I’m sure that it could be replaced with something else at the expense some compression features | May 04 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Patent on how to do you taxes: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxpro… | May 04 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Pay a tax for a method on doing your tax | May 04 18:57 |
| *benkai has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 04 19:01 | |
| schestowitz | Mandriva 2009.1 “Spring” is Stunning < http://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=355 > That’s my favourite distro right now. | May 04 19:02 |
| Balrog_ | “IBM Doubles Rewards For Ditching Sun” <http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid…> | May 04 19:03 |
| schestowitz | “So there you have it, Mandriva 2009.1 is an amazing release. It has everything that Kubuntu lacks in a KDE distro. Kubuntu has always been my favorite distribution, yet a release as good as this one may convince me to make the switch.” | May 04 19:04 |
| schestowitz | “To put it more simply, Mandriva 2009.1 is probably the best KDE-based distribution I have seen so far this year, and it’s everything that Kubuntu should have been. I definitely recommend anyone reading this to give Mandriva a shot. Hopefully you’ll find it as wonderful as I do.” | May 04 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Good for Linux and IBM, I gues.s | May 04 19:05 |
| Balrog_ | but bad for SPARC, which is a decent platform | May 04 19:05 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, http://lwn.net/Articles/331187/ do you have a mirror for this? | May 04 19:18 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes | May 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | “Nobody has to tell me what I really want is never gonna happen. But how close can we come? Tell me, dear Reader: What is being developed to make life on Linux beautiful without X.org?” http://jehurst.wordpress.com/2009/0… | May 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | The MS shills try to depress Linux users, still. | May 04 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Overview of Ubuntu in the Highstreet < http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/o… > | May 04 19:25 |
| bgtr4 | m$ is depressing | May 04 19:25 |
| bgtr4 | even for windows users | May 04 19:25 |
| bgtr4 | but they seem addicted | May 04 19:26 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, can I see it? | May 04 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I’d be depressed if I used Windows | May 04 19:35 |
| schestowitz | When you know Microsoft’s life you’re more uplifted | May 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | You just need to know the spins |
May 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Explaining it becomes easier when you amass work and many pertinent examples that show your point (external refs) | May 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Since Microsoft’s GMs are asking about BN, we’re on the right topic | May 04 19:37 |
| schestowitz | The following two pages receive many visits today because of Net Applications’ FUD: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03… | May 04 19:38 |
| schestowitz | The AstroTurf just mailed | May 04 19:48 |
| schestowitz | me | May 04 19:48 |
| schestowitz | The anti-Google one | May 04 19:48 |
| schestowitz | They do damage control when exposed | May 04 19:48 |
| trmanco | is there anyway I can read the email? | May 04 19:50 |
| trmanco | can you fwd it to me |
May 04 19:50 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/04/con… | May 04 19:57 |
| schestowitz | I’m having a little fun with it | May 04 19:57 |
| schestowitz | it’s not E-mail | May 04 19:58 |
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| schestowitz | It’s shill-mail | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Roy - | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Not sure if you saw our comment on your blog about Consumer Watchdog’s work on Google. (I noticed it when it showed up, of course, in a Google Alert!) In case you didn’t see the comment, Grassroots.com is just our web host. We’re no more affiliated with them than we’re affiliated with our ISP and phone company. | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | As you will see from the reporting on our battle with Google, it is funded with a grant from the privacy rights oriented Rose Foundation, based in California. At one point, Google sent a nasty letter to that charitable foundation trying to defund us. Here’s a rundown on that from my colleague: http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/corp… . | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I just want to make sure that, if in fact you are coming at this independently, you take a minute to review our work at http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/ before you jump to any further conclusions based on the fact that we chose Grassroots rather than Convio — which was the other hosting company pitching their servers to nonprofits when we were looking — to host our site. | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Sincerely, | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Doug | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | – | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Douglas Heller | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Executive Director | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Consumer Watchdog | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | formerly The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | 310-392-0522 ext. 309 | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.consumerwatchdog.org | May 04 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Brilliant. Canonical is using Oxygen (KDE4) icons in its GTK/GNOME desktop: http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.p… | May 04 20:03 |
| trmanco | hmm, ok | May 04 20:04 |
| MinceR | what’s wrong with that? | May 04 20:05 |
| trmanco | interesting | May 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Cingular Wireless Refutes Lawsuit Filed By the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights http://www.redorbit.com/news/technolo… | May 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | He tactlessly told me that Google did complain about them | May 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | This means that even a company with lawyers reached the conclusion that there was harassment. I don’t think it’s public knowledge. | May 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they just use Google to make big headlines | May 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Alex Zaharov-Reutt took his FUD and shilling for Microsoft elsewhere: http://vista.blorge.com/2009/05/03/wi… | May 04 20:09 |
| *benJIman has quit (“brb, going to the moon.”) | May 04 20:10 | |
| gnutz | Lol…”we’ve got the ability to work better on older hardware”. | May 04 20:11 |
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| gnutz | …maybe as of 7′s release date. | May 04 20:11 |
| schestowitz | It’s Microsoft marketing people | May 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Like the Gartenberg shill today: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/e… | May 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | People don’t know who’s who | May 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | They seem not to know that these are Microsoft shills who pubnlished anti-Linux articles | May 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | People who claimed Zune to be a success back in the days. | May 04 20:12 |
| gnutz | They literally couldn’t give those things away. I think I remember reading about MS supplying developers with copies of XP with which to use their Zunes; both ended up on eBay. | May 04 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Does that count as two sales? | May 04 20:23 |
| schestowitz | |
May 04 20:23 |
| MinceR | obviously | May 04 20:23 |
| gnutz | IIRC they were conference freebies. | May 04 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft loves multi-dipping. Countering one sale as many… done that with Vista. Another method is channel-stuffing, which it did aggressively in Zune’s case and got busted. | May 04 20:24 |
| MinceR | then they count as sales for $0 | May 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I have some good posts to do | May 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | PatheticSoft | May 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I’ll try to finish them before MS announced more layoffs | May 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Cause then I need to go out | May 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | (to get popcorn) | May 04 20:24 |
| gnutz | later. | May 04 20:25 |
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| schestowitz | Now public: Oracle: SELECT * FROM Sun < http://lwn.net/Articles/329223/ > | May 04 20:32 |
| MinceR | select * from sun into oracle; | May 04 20:33 |
| trmanco | hehe | May 04 20:34 |
| trmanco | easy language sql |
May 04 20:34 |
| trmanco | it’s very straight forward | May 04 20:34 |
| trmanco | ESP launches en.swpat.org: A Wiki for Anti-Software Patent Campaigns: http://campaigns.fsf.org/pipermai… | May 04 20:35 |
| MinceR | sql is only easy for trivial queries | May 04 20:43 |
| MinceR | its powerless and braindead nature become quite apparent when you try anything nontrivial | May 04 20:43 |
| trmanco | Study says silent updates enhance security: http://www.h-online.com/security/Study… | May 04 20:45 |
| trmanco | yeah, thats true | May 04 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Justice Scalia’s Dossier: Interesting Issues about Privacy and Ethics < http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi… > | May 04 21:02 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: point is……? | May 04 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | Intel’s Grove: Something foul in Silicon Valley < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3… > They make him look like a monkey |
May 04 21:16 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: what documents should I show people who are skeptical about MS doing what they really do? your site would be like ‘shock therapy’ which would not be good at first | May 04 21:18 |
| Balrog_ | then when I say these things (like ‘Effective Evangelism’) they call it FUD | May 04 21:21 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: what to do? | May 04 21:21 |
| trmanco | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s… Nice article, this might have already been posted here | May 04 21:22 |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: any ideas? | May 04 21:22 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, can you extract that lwn article and email it to me? | May 04 21:22 |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: one sec. | May 04 21:23 |
| trmanco | Balrog_, microsoft wants to try and shape ODF, the same thing they tried to do with the internets | May 04 21:23 |
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| Balrog_ | sure, I know | May 04 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.userfriendly.org/ | May 04 21:26 |
| schestowitz | brb phone | May 04 21:26 |
| trmanco | great article | May 04 21:28 |
| trmanco | again -> http://torrentfreak.com/riaa-site… | May 04 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: use the ECIS document | May 04 21:36 |
| schestowitz | It’s very recent and concise | May 04 21:36 |
| schestowitz | BoycottNovell has a hostile site name (not my choice) | May 04 21:36 |
| Balrog_ | yes … but they’ve seen the ecis document and say it goes overboard on some points | May 04 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Which points? | May 04 21:39 |
| schestowitz | MSO2007: the IE6 of the WWW | May 04 21:41 |
| schestowitz | *of the documents world (ODF) | May 04 21:41 |
| trmanco | time to call that office odf implementation MS-ODF | May 04 21:41 |
| trmanco | cause of direct ODF implementation and compatibility is has less then 10% | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | The shulls are losing it | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | The E-mails go hostile. | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Your blog on Consumer Watchdog | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Roy (and please forward to your colleague Shane) - | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Please feel free to contact me, if you are serious about your rants. I’m not going to publicly attack your credibility by pointing out that you sell ad space to Google on your personal blogs. But I suspect, that’s far more compromising than who we pay to serve our website. As a consumer advocacy nonprofit for nearly 25 years, we know that our resources are better spent taking on crooked corporations and corrupt politicians t | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | han spent on an array of servers and building webpage templates for what our library of about 10,000 webpages. (That’s not our skill set or mission.) | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | As apparently savvy computer guys who also seem to be in the nonprofit sector, the fact that you don’t get this makes me question whether or not there’s some other motivation. Today’s project for me is fighting off an insurance industry attempt to deregulate auto and homeowners insurance rates, so I’m getting back to that. If you want to talk about Google or our webserver, feel free to give me a call. | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Doug | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | – | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Douglas Heller | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Executive Director | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Consumer Watchdog | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | formerly The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | 310-392-0522 ext. 309 | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | http://www.consumerwatchdog.org | May 04 21:42 |
| schestowitz | ======= | May 04 21:43 |
| schestowitz | See Shane’s latest comment | May 04 21:43 |
| schestowitz | They are being exposed BIG TIME. | May 04 21:43 |
| Balrog_ | stuff about IE and WMP mostly | May 04 21:43 |
| trmanco | he attacks google | May 04 21:45 |
| trmanco | I see | May 04 21:45 |
| trmanco | even more proof | May 04 21:45 |
| schestowitz | No worries | May 04 21:45 |
| schestowitz | They’ll just need to change name (again) | May 04 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Or risk getting no customers/funding because they are always OWNED (exposeD) | May 04 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Like ATL | May 04 21:46 |
| schestowitz | I’ll do some COLA links now | May 04 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft might announce layoffs tomorrow. Good time tor TomTom (and Linux) | May 04 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: thanks for the links | May 04 21:50 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | May 04 21:51 | |
| trmanco |  |
May 04 21:51 |
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| trmanco | “Mono may have its place. But is certainly not the magic bullet that some make it out to be. It’s another language and set of libraries that doesn’t seem to have all that much on other existing languages and libraries, despite what Miguel and Novell would like for people to think. Although from an empirical standpoint, it does seem to result in bigger, hungrier, more sluggish applications than most others.” | May 04 21:59 |
| bgtr4 | .net is time-hungry | May 04 22:00 |
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| SubsonicB | Good evening gentlemen | May 04 22:03 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, have you read the comments? | May 04 22:06 |
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| trmanco | good news | May 04 22:16 |
| trmanco | “It is a prime candidate to replace Tomboy by default in Fedora 12. “ | May 04 22:16 |
| trmanco | “Gnote has been in Fedora for the past few weeks and I have been keeping it updated to match upstream releases. The latest version 0.3.0 has been built for Rawhide (leading to Fedora 11) and Fedora 10 already. It is a prime candidate to replace Tomboy by default in Fedora 12.” | May 04 22:16 |
| trmanco | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fe… | May 04 22:16 |
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| SubsonicB | lets hope somebody ports f-spot and makes it mono-free following gnote example | May 04 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck f-spot | May 04 22:19 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck mono | May 04 22:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Hi schestowitz! | May 04 22:19 |
| trmanco | “So, basically your defense of Mono is that… it’s newer? | May 04 22:19 |
| trmanco | Speaking of sticking the head in the sand! | May 04 22:19 |
| trmanco | Suposedly Mono/.NET was to bing: faster development, safer code and near native code speeds (whe JIT-compiled). | May 04 22:19 |
| trmanco | Gnote has needed a mere month to get to its actual state, and everybody says it’s clearly faster than Tomboy. The question is: is Tomboy any safer than Gnote? | May 04 22:19 |
| trmanco | One interesting thing is that, in fact, the Gnote case is just anecdotal evidence. We still need more examples of real world applications ported.” | May 04 22:19 |
| schestowitz | hey | May 04 22:21 |
| schestowitz | SubsonicB: | May 04 22:21 |
| schestowitz | i’m eating | May 04 22:21 |
| _Hicham_ | the ideal is to create a migration framework | May 04 22:21 |
| _Hicham_ | good appetite schestowitz | May 04 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | a migration framework just like the one proposed by Qt to migrate from MFC on Windows | May 04 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Hi, SubsonicB. I will post lots of stuff tomorrow | May 04 22:25 |
| schestowitz | I need to watch up with news first and post links before bedtime. | May 04 22:25 |
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| trmanco | _Hicham_, MFC’s are a mess | May 04 22:29 |
| Balrog_ | these people keep saying that ‘you pick on MS because they’re big’ | May 04 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : MS do crappy software | May 04 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | they don’t focus on usability | May 04 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | instead, they focus on theming and so on | May 04 22:30 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, the problem is not usability, thats up to the dev, the real problem is the confusing and sloppy code the mfc wizard creates | May 04 22:31 |
| SubsonicB | hi roy. thanks a lot | May 04 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | and ‘they do <things> to make developers’ lives easier’ | May 04 22:31 |
| trmanco | even functions don’t have a real naming logic… damn how I love php for this | May 04 22:31 |
| trmanco | IMO, MFC’s are a complete nightmare | May 04 22:32 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : MS have lots of problem in wrapping Win32 API | May 04 22:32 |
| _Hicham_ | Win32 API was done in an old fashioned way | May 04 22:32 |
| _Hicham_ | old fashioned and crappy | May 04 22:32 |
| _Hicham_ | so wrapping it in C++ is not easy | May 04 22:33 |
| trmanco | I’m actually learning this crap at school, and c++ (.NET) is the hardest language I’ve ever tried to learn in my life | May 04 22:33 |
| _Hicham_ | there are some wrappers that are better in my opinion | May 04 22:33 |
| _Hicham_ | like Win32++ | May 04 22:33 |
| Balrog_ | C++.NET? | May 04 22:33 |
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| Balrog_ | they probably make it hard to encourage C# | May 04 22:34 |
| SubsonicB | trmanco, I agree with you MFCs are a hell of nonsense, there is no coherence at all in the libraries | May 04 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : C++.NET is just another trap | May 04 22:34 |
| trmanco | wait, maybe I’m confused | May 04 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog_ : it is not that | May 04 22:34 |
| trmanco | I still remember visual basic .NET | May 04 22:34 |
| trmanco | what I’m programming write now has nothing to do with .net | May 04 22:34 |
| trmanco | I’m actually program in MSVC 6.0, and it never heard of .NET | May 04 22:35 |
| _Hicham_ | all .NET language share the same set of namespaces | May 04 22:35 |
| trmanco | I* | May 04 22:35 |
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| trmanco | I think | May 04 22:35 |
| trmanco | SubsonicB, I’m glad you agree with me |
May 04 22:35 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : did u try Win32++? | May 04 22:36 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, no | May 04 22:36 |
| trmanco | and I might not even try it | May 04 22:36 |
| trmanco | can’t waste my time with a system I don’t even use at home :-p | May 04 22:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Win32++ is a free and lightweight wrapper around Win32 API | May 04 22:37 |
| _Hicham_ | better use GTKs | May 04 22:37 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : did you use GTK on Windows? | May 04 22:38 |
| Balrog_ | Mingw? | May 04 22:38 |
| trmanco | yeah, I will try to learn the !gtk bindings! <- did I say this right? | May 04 22:38 |
| trmanco | I’ve already looked into the docs, but it was just a light pass | May 04 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | with MinGW or MSVC | May 04 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | GTK is very Simple | May 04 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | GTKmm is a little bit complicated but less code | May 04 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | pyGTK, I haven’t tried it yet | May 04 22:40 |
| trmanco | I might have to use gtk++ | May 04 22:40 |
| trmanco | it’s cross platform | May 04 22:40 |
| trmanco | Linux<->Windows at least | May 04 22:40 |
| _Hicham_ | GTK is cross platform by definition | May 04 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I developed a small encryption utility on Linux, and then ported it easily to Windows | May 04 22:41 |
| trmanco | good | May 04 22:41 |
| trmanco | but a still prefer php | May 04 22:42 |
| trmanco | it also has gtk | May 04 22:42 |
| trmanco | but don’t know how well it works | May 04 22:42 |
| trmanco | :-p | May 04 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | GTK is everywhere | May 04 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | it is recommended by GNU | May 04 22:43 |
| trmanco | |
May 04 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | did u try Ubuntu 9.04? | May 04 22:44 |
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| trmanco | I’m on 9.04 | May 04 22:45 |
| trmanco | but it’s not a clean install | May 04 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | did u do an upgrade from 8.10? | May 04 22:46 |
| trmanco | my cousin installed it on his laptop, (windows screwed grub, made a fresh install) boot in about 20 seconds | May 04 22:46 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, yes | May 04 22:46 |
| trmanco | but I already did an upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10 | May 04 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | you can reinstall grub | May 04 22:47 |
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| trmanco | yeah, but he was just curious and had nothing to loose from installing ti all over again | May 04 22:48 |
| trmanco | he also used ext4 for his / filesystem | May 04 22:48 |
| MinceR | gn | May 04 22:49 |
| trmanco | gn | May 04 22:50 |
| trmanco | I’m also ready to go | May 04 22:50 |
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| trmanco | Ubuntu and Fedora Replace init with Upstart: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linux… | May 04 22:54 |
| trmanco | cya | May 04 22:58 |
| *schestowitz catches up | May 04 23:05 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, I used Visual Studio just once many years ago.. to port an OpenGL program to Windows. It took one afternoon. | May 04 23:06 |
| schestowitz | Windows version was 5 times slower! | May 04 23:07 |
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| SubsonicB | must leave now, good evening gentlemen | May 04 23:29 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, goto consumerwatchdog.org, and search on “microsoft”. | May 04 23:30 |
| the_mad_hatter | http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/search/?… | May 04 23:31 |
| the_mad_hatter | All of the articles listed are attacks on Google. There are no attacks on Microsoft for overcharging their customers, providing faulty software, etc. | May 04 23:31 |
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| schestowitz | liHey | May 04 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw that | May 04 23:38 |
| schestowitz | I put a link to such a thing | May 04 23:38 |
| schestowitz | See the comments | May 04 23:38 |
| schestowitz | There’s more in these IRC logs, which you’ll see tomorrow if you read it | May 04 23:39 |
| schestowitz | It brewed in IRC actually, like many other articles | May 04 23:39 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm | May 04 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | I needed a picture of a red hat | May 04 23:50 |
| schestowitz | I was tempted to us this: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/666098 | May 04 23:50 |
| schestowitz | I’d just go with this instead: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/478830 | May 04 23:50 |
| schestowitz | We might have more female readers than I realise | May 04 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat: We Should Probably Look at Switching out Tomboy with Gnote in the Fedora 12 Panel Configuration < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/… > | May 04 23:54 |
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