10.26.08
Novell Does Not Care About Ogg Anymore, Embraces Microsoft WMV Instead
The continued ‘Microsoftification’ of Novell?
As we mentioned before, Microsoft's influence on Novell is increasing. Watch Novell’s video archive for BrainShare in 2007 (we include screenshots as that may change in the future).
Watch what happens in 2008. No Ogg. None. However, Microsoft’s patented formats are added as an option.
Here is a printout of the complete Web page [PDF], for future reference.
Content is available under CC-BY-SA
twitter said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Someone at Novell needs to learn how to use Cinelerra, kino or ffmpeg2theora. Here’s youtube walk through for the creative types. Kino is self explanatory. ffmpeg2theora might not work as well as you like unless you use the -v option but it will work formats any sane video editor creates. We can only hope that Suse includes all of this excellent, free software.
Betto said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Everyone should be cautious about comments posted here and especially in articles referenced by this blog. “twitter” is a well-known nymshifter who operates fourteen (known) accounts over at Slashdot:
http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377
And who knows how many more on Digg, Reddit, CNet, Usenet and elsewhere. Judging by the IRC logs posted here, “twitter” now seems to be a close associate of Roy Schestowitz, who unfortunately is desperate enough to have one more yes man attached to his entourage than to condemn sockpuppetry, which he himself has been a victim of on Usenet and elsewhere.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Noting but libel from you, “Betto”, as usual. What readers of this Web site do elsewhere is their own business, so don’t try to connect me to readers with phrases like “close associate.”
Just slanderous accusations from a regular Internet troll…
Aleh X. said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Roy is forgetting that WMV is free software and thus roy is once again attacking free software while defending proprietary Ogg.
Note: This is an impersonation intended to mislead.
Aleh X. said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Of course twitter masses slashdot accoutns, all the evidence is in Betto’s link, the accounts agreed with each other, therefore they are the same person, such argumentation is the best I’ve seen and it is impossible to deny.
Note: This is an impersonation intended to mislead.
Aleh X. said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Yes. And since twitter uses multiple accoutns Roy is wrong, another fact of life only conspiracy theorists would argue against.
Note: This is an impersonation intended to mislead.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:37 pm
That’s nothing to do with me. You’re scraping the bottom of the barrel by trying to find some sort fo accusation by association .
Kango_V said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Point me to the full spec of WMV and the royalty free and perpetual, non-discriminatory license please. If you can do this, then it’s free.
Until then it’s not.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 6:47 pm
It was sarcasm — a response to Bruce Byfield’s (Linux.com) false claims that this site ‘attacks’ Free software projects. it’s not true.
lyle howard seave said,
October 26, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I dont see anything wrong with Twitter’s comment and rather liked the Youtube video since I only saw but never tried Cinelerra.
looks interesting.
They went from MPG and OGG to Real and WMV?
Really? Im not even gonna go with the obvious WMV but rather ask if anyone still uses Real Video.
Nothing surprises me with Novell anymore.
twitter said,
October 26, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Slashdot multi accounting is explained here and here. People like you Betto are hypocites. who don’t have more than smear to add to discussion.
MPZ said,
October 26, 2008 at 7:40 pm
“Roy is forgetting that WMV is free software and thus roy is once again attacking free software while defending proprietary Ogg.”
Umm, what? Wow, that’s a pretty amazing lie to put to your name. You should go work for the Palin campaign.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Black is white and white it black.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_Yahoo_inbox_2008
Betto said,
October 26, 2008 at 7:56 pm
@twitter, I am aware of your excuses, you have mentioned them before. Since you have no proof whatsoever that the Slashdot moderation system has been subverted, or that “M$” is responsible for that, we can safely discard that part. I don’t see you complaining whenever one of your posts shoots up to +5.
Second, your excuse to the effect that you have to create new accounts because you have been unfairly moderated simply does not square with the conversations linked to in the “Epic shill threads” section of the link I posted earlier. There would be a very specific pattern of usage to those accounts if you were being honest about why you created them.
Third, clicking on a few of the links you have on that “Troll zoo” journal reveals nothing more than people who are moderated up for offering opinions on Microsoft to which you disagree, and you being moderated down for trolling them. The mere act of not hating Microsoft as much as you do is not “trolling” or a crime in itself. And quite frankly, that “Death Threats” section marks you as psychotic. Sorry, no other way to put it, and I hope that’s not the case. And I hope you are not actually implying that I’m on that list of yours, because I’m not.
Fourth, I’m still laughing at *you* calling *anyone* a hypocrite.
Betto said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:01 pm
@Roy: A quick look at your IRC logs seem to indicate that you are indeed collaborating with this “twitter” person. The first 25 or so comment on the current log certainly do.
It’s telling that you use the term “libel” to refer to the implication that you might be associated with people like that. That’s a good first step.
Also, as much as I disagree with many of the things you write, I am not attacking you in any way, and I’m sorry you see it that way. When I have something to say about one of your articles, I’ll comment on that. But I feel that people who read your site must be warned about the activities of people like this twitter person. It just looks bad. You are on record asking him to drop his nyms, and he is on record telling you to f*ck off. I don’t think you have anything to worry about in that regard.
Betto said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:10 pm
@Alex H: I am not implying Roy is “right” or “wrong” because of his association with twitter, I am saying that any “independent” praise or support he receives is suspect.
Also, I think that journal entry that details twitter’s massive gaming of the Slashdot moderation system is very detailed, but if you feel there are inconsistencies or that one of those accounts are not his, I’d comment to that effect in the journal. I’d guess that the person who is maintaining that now would be happy to address your concern(s). You can even post AC if you don’t have an account there. Most of the comments there seem to be by ACs anyway.
saulgoode said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Aleh X. said,
Care to explain how Ogg might be considered proprietary?
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:24 pm
It was a sarcastic comment.
That said, a former Microsoft advisor who works for Nokia now called Ogg proprietary.
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf
From Stephan Wenger:
http://www.stewe.org/cv-business-wenger.pdf
“1997 – 1999 Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA, USA (http://www.microsoft.com)
Advised the company on standardization issues in the ITU-T, particularly on questions of video compression and carriage of IP over ISDN.”
saulgoode said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:33 pm
My mistake. It should also be noted that the author of that comment was not actually Alex H. (for myself, I neither accept nor discount what is being said based solely on who is saying it).
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 26, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Alex Hudson has not been here for a while. When he comes back he posts in a bursty fashion, like 100 comments at a time.
Dan O'Brian said,
October 26, 2008 at 10:33 pm
I think it’s a shame that Novell didn’t offer ogg formatted videos, but before accusing them of being evil because they are offering wmv, it would be a good idea to find out *why*. Maybe they found that the oggs weren’t downloaded last year and maybe they got requests for wmv/real? Or maybe the web master is just ignorant?
If you want ogg, you should send Novell feedback about that.
pcole said,
October 26, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Twitter said: “Here’s youtube walk through for the creative types. Kino is self explanatory. ffmpeg2theora might not work as well as you like unless you use the -v option but it will work formats any sane video editor creates.”
Why does the thread go off on a personal OT tangent?
AlexH said,
October 27, 2008 at 2:15 am
I’m going to note those previous comments were not by me, but probably by one of the resident trolls. I think we all know who.
I’ve left this site because I’m not willing to a. put up with the endless myriad of sock-puppets who appear to want to debate, or b. the endless ad-hominem attacks, both implicit and explicit, and I certainly won’t be taking lessons on “posting in a bursty fashion” from the likes of Roy.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 27, 2008 at 3:43 am
We just have.
Sebastiaan Veld said,
October 27, 2008 at 7:02 am
“I think it’s a shame that Novell didn’t offer ogg formatted videos, but before accusing them of being evil because they are offering wmv, it would be a good idea to find out *why*. Maybe they found that the oggs weren’t downloaded last year and maybe they got requests for wmv/real? Or maybe the web master is just ignorant?”
There’s a really simple reason. Brainshare always has a survey for everyone that attended. I remember there was this question about format’s people wanted to have like two Brainshare’s ago. Since most people still (need to) run Windows (for like supporting customer), it’s not surprising WVM is one of the requested formats.
Ian said,
October 27, 2008 at 7:47 am
Im not even gonna go with the obvious WMV but rather ask if anyone still uses Real Video.
Unfortunately, yes.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 27, 2008 at 7:49 am
Real is proprietary. it’s a case of ‘swapping codec masters’ so to speak.
Ian said,
October 27, 2008 at 8:12 am
Well that and Real Player is a gigantic piece of crap.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 27, 2008 at 8:21 am
Software patent pools. Never go there.
http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv034_01_vikram_dendi_001.ogg
Needs Sunlight said,
October 28, 2008 at 4:37 am
Ogg Vorbis vs MP3 can be debated (but only a little). Ogg has licensing and quality advantages. MP3 currently enjoys marketshare. However, with the renewed attacks against the EPO by the pro-swpatent lobbyists, there’s not any excuse to *not* be using Ogg.
There’s never been an excuse for any company to be pushing WMV/WMA:
http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/02/27/229597/european-commission-fines-microsoft-680m.htm
Rather, any company pushing WMV/WMA needs to be dealt with for contributing to further damage to the European market. The Noorda’s are gone. Allison and his colleagues are gone. Only the name Novell remains and that appears to be a shell for marketing MS traps. Canonical and Red Hat are two better places to be steering business. Or check your local business district. Chances are good that there is already at least one well-established shop, with a good reputation and satisfied clients, that sell linux support. That is, if your in-house shop is unable or unwilling.
Needs Sunlight said,
October 28, 2008 at 5:27 am
Novell’s really pissing in the punch bowl. In addition to peddling the illegal Windows Media formats instead of Ogg, Quicktime or MPEG, it’s shills have been agitating for other proprietary formats from M$ and trying to gain commit access to important FOSS projects.
If Novell forks a project, apparently for the purpose of infecting it with M$-licensed, proprietary technologies, the original project has no obligation to accept material from the contaminated fork.
Nor does the community around that original project have an obligation to audit material from a contaminated source. That leads easily to a denial of service where all the experts’ time is wasted with revisions, half-baked products, and even red herrings. Case in point:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080925-judge-microsoft-documentation-unfit-for-us-consumption.html
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 5:43 am
More DRM/Mono/swpats vectors from th news: “Soon, with the aid of Silverlight’s integrated PlayReady DRM, Intel-based Mac users will be able to stream their chosen content.”
http://www.betanews.com/article/New_Netflix_player_uses_Silverlight_to_reach_Mac_Linux/1225120899
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 7:47 am
Canonical and Red Hat are two better places to be steering business. Or check your local business district. Chances are good that there is already at least one well-established shop, with a good reputation and satisfied clients, that sell linux support.
@Needs Sunlight:
The problem is that neither Canonical or Red Hat have mature product lines in certain market segments like groupware or identity management.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 7:49 am
Why not blend in products and support contracts then?
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 7:58 am
I don’t know whether or not Novell offers that sort of package. That’s really a question I’m sure they can answer. Although, I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 8:06 am
I imagine that some companies wish to just use some GNU/Linux Web/mail servers without requiring groupware and identity management (maybe not from the same supplier).
To use an analogy, you don’t avoid dining at an Indian restaurant just because they have no egg roll.
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 8:09 am
What if you want an egg roll?
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 8:13 am
You go to a Chinese restaurant or stop by the supermarket. You don’t need to dine at one place or rely on one support contract/supplier.
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 8:26 am
I still don’t see what your original point was.
You don’t need to dine at one place or rely on one support contract/supplier.
I think really you can’t make a blanket statement for how any organization should operate with regards to IT. Some prefer to consolidate around a certain product line or company, some might be prepared to support “disparate” systems. Regardless of what direction an organization decides to go, you can’t make the assumption(which it seems you’re doing) that all products in various market segments are equal.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 8:44 am
Well, it’s also risky to take a monolithic approach where everything a business uses is from IBM or Microsoft, which increases lock-in and dependency (hostage situation). Components don’t interact with anything but other components from the same vendor. I’m not too familiar of Novell’s lock-in practices.
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 9:31 am
Again, some see it as a risk, some see it as a solid decision. I’m not advocating one over the other. All I’m saying is that you can’t make a blanket statement that one route is better than another without having a specific context as to why a particular route was chosen in a particular case.
As for Novell’s lock-in practices, I guess it depends on the product. Zen 10 has migrated to a directory agnostic framework where you don’t need eDirectory. Groupwise is still tied to eDirectory. If I had to guess why, I wouldn’t say lock in, I’d say that there’s a low reward to money/effort spent with separating it at this point. I have no experience with Identity Manager, so I don’t know.
Needs Sunlight said,
October 28, 2008 at 11:04 am
@ Ian: how, in the last 10 years, have you managed to miss out on the identity management *STANDARDS* known as Kerberos and OpenLDAP?
These are the very textbook definition mature technologies, both the software and protocol. There are even *gasp* graphical tools to manage the combination.
Groupware? There’s tons. Do a search yourself or pay me, but stop with the disinformation. Genuflecting 5 times a day to Redmond is fine, just don’t insist that everyone else joins you.
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 11:30 am
In Ian’s defence, I never got the impression that he was defending Microsoft.
Ian said,
October 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm
@Needs Sunlight:
Relax. As Roy said, I’m not defending Microsoft. In fact, I never even mentioned Microsoft specifically. The only products I mentioned were from Novell. Beyond that, I wasn’t suggesting anyone go in any particular direction. You have to do what works best for you.
What I am suggesting, however, is that different places find value in different implementations regardless of distributor. I figured I was pretty clear in that when I wrote “I’m not advocating one over the other”, don’t you think?
To address your specific points, from what I gather, OpenLDAP and Kerberos are only parts of the entire identity management puzzle. How much experience do you have with those technologies? I, possibly incorrectly, was under the impression that a “home grown” implementation of a directory service stack and ancillary processes is a difficult thing to scale up compared to some existing commercial directory and identity services. I know Redhat(or Fedora) Directory Services, formerly Netscape’s Directory Service is around but there is no data on how it performs or scales. Can you span an OpenLDAP implementation over multiple sites with variable link speeds and have a multi master design without doing some serious hand holding?
If an organization has the talent to address those concerns and the design works for them, then by all means I’m not going to say they’re nuts for not going commercial.
Really, you just have to relax. Just because I disagree with something Roy or anyone else here has to say, doesn’t automatically mean I’m pro Microsoft.
Shane Coyle said,
October 28, 2008 at 2:25 pm
The reason that Novell hasn’t/won’t open sourced their directory stuff is because it’s ugly on the inside.
Seriously, those aren’t my words, but Stafford Masie’s (of Novell at the time) at the CITI conference just after the deal was announced:
Confidence inspiring, no?
Roy Schestowitz said,
October 28, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Yes, I never realised why Symbian should take two years to become visible. The same goes for Java. Carla Schroder wrote a good article about Diebold earlier this year. She explained that embarrassment is why they want to keep the inelegant code secret.
Josh Bell said,
October 28, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Actually Novell released eDirecotry APIs in 2005 to allow for developers to write LDAP authentication in e-Directory. I’m not sure why Novell would want to release e-Directory which is just Novell’s way of working with LDAP and X.500. OpenLDAP would suffice in most instances.