04.13.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 12th, 2009 – Part 3
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| oiaohm | This is where Bayesin and clamav (it has plushing detection kick in) | Apr 12 12:47 |
|---|---|---|
| _Hicham_ | but clamav is an antivirus scan engine | Apr 12 12:48 |
| oiaohm | It also includes signatures to detect plushing. | Apr 12 12:48 |
| oiaohm | clamav is a virus scanner with signatures particular for scanning of email. | Apr 12 12:49 |
| _Hicham_ | clamav can then be used in thunderbird to detect spam? | Apr 12 12:50 |
| oiaohm | http://www.sanesecurity.com/ | Apr 12 12:51 |
| oiaohm | And others provide plushing signatures for clamav. | Apr 12 12:51 |
| oiaohm | I wish thunderbird had clamav intergration | Apr 12 12:51 |
| oiaohm | http://www.clamav.net/download/cvd… You can really see tht clamav is kinda used a lot in email scanning. | Apr 12 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | I’ve heard that ClamAV/ClamWin don’t detect a lot of particularly nasty viruses | Apr 12 13:06 |
| oiaohm | No anti-virus detects the all. | Apr 12 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Clamav engine is highly effective. | Apr 12 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Besides getting around clamav engine will only get harder once it adds decomplier with code processing. | Apr 12 13:16 |
| oiaohm | http://clam-av.blogspot.com/2008/12… Clamav is a mixture of signatures and hard algarothems. | Apr 12 13:18 |
| oiaohm | So its not weak DaemonFC | Apr 12 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Problem is no anti-virus is perfect. Due to the design of windows anti-viruses you cannot run multiable to increase your detection rate. | Apr 12 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | ClamWin can’t use real time scanning | Apr 12 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | so it should be fine to use along with another antivirus app | Apr 12 13:21 |
| oiaohm | It is | Apr 12 13:22 |
| oiaohm | clamwin I do recommend for people to use in combination with other scanners for the stuff that will from time to time slip past there default. | Apr 12 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Windows design real-time scanning really cripples people when we have these complex threats appear. | Apr 12 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes you will have 2 commerical antiviruses only detecting half a virus. | Apr 12 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Scanning machines then get nice and tricky. | Apr 12 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Problem we have here is all anti-viruses are losing the war against viruses. | Apr 12 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact there is a limit on how big of a signature and algo database you can have to detect viruses. | Apr 12 13:35 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft cronies still push against odf : http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | Apr 12 14:34 |
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| zer0c00l | hii | Apr 12 14:56 |
| zer0c00l | hey schestowitz | Apr 12 14:56 |
| zer0c00l | happy easter  |
Apr 12 14:56 |
| MinceR | how do you keep firefox from moving to the current desktop and stealing focus if a new url is opened via the command-line (“firefox -new-tab …”)? | Apr 12 14:58 |
| MinceR | kde3 window-specific settings can’t keep it from doing that | Apr 12 14:58 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: thanks! | Apr 12 14:58 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: KDE? | Apr 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Apps focus stolen? | Apr 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Like switching desktop too? | Apr 12 14:59 |
| MinceR | i’ve configured kde to use firefox as the default web browser | Apr 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | It sometimes happens to me with Compiz+KDE3 | Apr 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | From Thunderbird | Apr 12 15:00 |
| MinceR | firefox is one console, kmail is on another | Apr 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | If a part of Firefox intrudes another virtual desktop | Apr 12 15:00 |
| MinceR | clicking a link in kmail brings firefox to that desktop and gives it focus | Apr 12 15:00 |
| MinceR | even though i’ve changed the window-specific setting for firefox that ships with kde or kubuntu so that focus stealing prevention is Extreme on firefox windows | Apr 12 15:00 |
| MinceR | and that it’s forced to the original desktop i’ve put it on | Apr 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | I think in Thunderbird you can change the command for the browser | Apr 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Like firefox & | Apr 12 15:01 |
| MinceR | i’ve seen other browsers using Gecko doing this too | Apr 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Or in KDE Control Centre[sic] –>Associations/File Types | Apr 12 15:01 |
| MinceR | i thought it went away already yet now here i am, grappling with it | Apr 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | It’s very annoying if you open many links | Apr 12 15:01 |
| MinceR | hm, maybe the window class is set wrong in the window-specific setting and it doesn’t match | Apr 12 15:02 |
| MinceR | i think i’ve solved it |
Apr 12 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | Is Microsoft attacking daemonFC? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/12… | Apr 12 15:13 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I don’t think KDE4 has win/app-specific rules | Apr 12 15:13 |
| schestowitz | In fact, with Cmpiz enabled these options are disabled too | Apr 12 15:14 |
| MinceR | i’ll see, i guess | Apr 12 15:14 |
| MinceR | if all else fails, there’s devilspie | Apr 12 15:14 |
| MinceR | though that might not be able to keep constant watch on things like this | Apr 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they’ll reimplment it | Apr 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | They restructure the thing | Apr 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | They can grated the old code back in | Apr 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | *graft | Apr 12 15:14 |
| oiaohm | http://247wallst.com/2009/01/… Interesting that the source is comcast | Apr 12 15:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v… | Apr 12 15:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I know they sold it | Apr 12 15:36 |
| oiaohm | To who. | Apr 12 15:36 |
| oiaohm | That is the interesting question. | Apr 12 15:37 |
| oiaohm | Also comcast and microsoft has had many deals over the years. | Apr 12 15:37 |
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| trmanco | Gag to Internet: Digital rights and Internet rules & Co A real defense of the user, without putting the gag on the free flow of information: http://gag-to-internet.blogspot.com/200… | Apr 12 15:59 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft shills on the tail of Vista7 critics: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/11/… | Apr 12 18:27 |
| trmanco | … | Apr 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | It’s like a nice pattern | Apr 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is super paranoid about Vista7 critics | Apr 12 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Google Randall Kennedy for details. | Apr 12 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Criticism is infectious. Remember the fable about the naked emperor (Denmark) | Apr 12 18:31 |
| trmanco | they are desperate | Apr 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmmmmm… hehe, funny name. “DarkBaboon (darkbaboon) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca.” | Apr 12 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Sounds self insulting | Apr 12 18:39 |
| trmanco | Report: Conficker worm bites University of Utah: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3… | Apr 12 18:39 |
| trmanco | it is | Apr 12 18:39 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: they go down like flies | Apr 12 18:39 |
| schestowitz | At least it’s not yet another British hospital (which is force shutdown). 3 that I know of so far due to Conficker. They try to hide it. | Apr 12 18:39 |
| schestowitz | *forced | Apr 12 18:40 |
| trmanco | that’s bad | Apr 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | DNS was down yesterday | Apr 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | And this morning I lost the connection momentarily. This NEVER happens | Apr 12 18:44 |
| trmanco | that is bad too | Apr 12 18:44 |
| trmanco | but everything is smooth here | Apr 12 18:44 |
| trmanco | at least for now | Apr 12 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Smooth like banana in a blender. | Apr 12 19:04 |
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| schestowitz | I have some rotten plugin in Firefox. Any debugging tool for that? | Apr 12 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Easter eggs in OOo. Yummy and seasonly :-) http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot… | Apr 12 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Think about the ritual of eating eggs for a second. It’s the eating of young , unborn, innocent animals… Don’t get me going about turkeys… |
Apr 12 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Cool. PJ uses the alexbrown twits I send her to challenge him to admit the mistake. | Apr 12 20:04 |
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| schestowitz | Is Steve Jobs really in charge? – CNNMoney.com < http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com… > No word from him.. | Apr 12 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Police apologise for obstructing photographers at G20 protest < http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/200… > RMS: “The apology is worthless unless it is accompanied by something to protect photographers from a repetition of the same abuse.” | Apr 12 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Also from RMS: “Obama says that the Bush forces will leave Iraq by 2011, but generals are saying they will stay for 20 years. “ | Apr 12 20:20 |
| schestowitz | EDF Goes Nuclear on Greenpeace < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8320 >. The authurities try to crack their way into Greepeace’s computers. They hopefully use Fedora or something. | Apr 12 20:22 |
| schestowitz | G20 death: Police officer suspended < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ap… >. Not charged? The man whom he attacked died. I guess they can’t take him to the police if you know what I mean. | Apr 12 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Health risks of shipping pollution have been ‘underestimated’ < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environm… >. Some restaurants in the UK are flying FOOD in…. in airplanes! | Apr 12 20:36 |
| schestowitz | Ian Tomlinson was attacked TWICE by the police: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/… | Apr 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | “Officers are alleged to have attacked Tomlinson twice; both times from behind and as he was walking away. Eight witnesses produced photographic evidence, time- and date-stamped, that corroborates their version of events. Three said they saw Tomlinson being assaulted by riot police. Here are their accounts.” | Apr 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Phoenix police raid home of blogger whose writing is highly critical of them < http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/… > | Apr 12 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Socialism has failed. Now capitalism is bankrupt. So what comes next? < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre… > | Apr 12 20:41 |
| schestowitz | The $1000000 question: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/i… | Apr 12 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Vote distribution on BN articles: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conten… 61% of the time it’s a 10 and I can’t ever vote | Apr 12 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Hmm.. is the “CJ” in http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/04… Mr Collier? | Apr 12 20:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto… “Intel show the dragon coming fast and spitting fire time ago and that’s why they are hurrying up with Moblin. It’s not that Intel suddendly loves Linux, it’s that they are scared of ARM and asian 5$-MIPS CPUs.” | Apr 12 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | Conficker worm hits University of Utah computers < http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/scitec… > | Apr 12 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Whats New in Fedora 11 < http://www.linuxadda.com/2009/04/w… > | Apr 12 21:09 |
| trmanco | <schestowitz> I have some rotten plugin in Firefox. Any debugging tool for that? -> disable all, enable one by one to see which on is the problematic plugin | Apr 12 21:10 |
| trmanco | one* | Apr 12 21:10 |
| schestowitz | it’s not a suddenly-arising issue. It’s just that sometimes it needs restarting to free up memory. It used to work fine. | Apr 12 21:13 |
| trmanco | I only use 1 | Apr 12 21:13 |
| schestowitz | If only there was a way to display memory usage ‘per’ extension/process | Apr 12 21:13 |
| trmanco | http://kb.mozillazine.org/… | Apr 12 21:15 |
| schestowitz | I use man of these | Apr 12 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | Byfield claims to have evangelised FOSS, but I’m not sure he did. “Stepping away from evangelism” < http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/2009… > | Apr 12 21:24 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/ | Apr 12 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/200… | Apr 12 21:28 |
| zer0c00l | gn | Apr 12 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | The Exchange server at my work collapsed. *LOL* | Apr 12 21:33 |
| schestowitz | They insisted on this garbage and now they eat Easter downtime | Apr 12 21:34 |
| schestowitz | I’ll never forgot how this expensive rubbish caught a viruses and how much the admin spend maintaining the darn thing. | Apr 12 21:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/how-to-ma… | Apr 12 21:42 |
| schestowitz | http://red-gecko.blogspot.com/2009/04/… “My question for Dell is this: if you’re going to sell a top-end machine with Linux pre-installed, don’t you think it makes sense to ensure that every single component of the system works properly before it ships?” | Apr 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Opera 10 Beta ‘Turbo’ – Does It Still Have What It Takes? < http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/opera-10-be… > Would it gladly be used and recommended had it gone Free (GPL)? | Apr 12 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu Needs To Monitor Consistancy – Not Appearance < http://www.lockergnome.com/linux/20… > Fair point made, but it’s already consistent. Compare this to Windows which comes with almost nothing and each third-party application behaves differently and uses different libs. | Apr 12 22:01 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/user/137 “Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it! ” |
Apr 12 22:02 |
| schestowitz | “According to a former engineer at Area 51, the top-secret U.S. military facility in Nevada, the reported sightings of UFOs in the 1960s were really light flashes from extremely high-speed experimental jets and that aliens are not stored at the super-secret facility.” http://www.itwire.com/content/view… | Apr 12 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | The secret to having things work sometimes is avoiding Linux-hostile hardware… | Apr 12 22:22 |
| trmanco | true | Apr 12 22:27 |
| *balzac_ is now known as balzac | Apr 12 22:29 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: in the UK we have this shop called Novatech. Everything I throw on their PCs works. No Windows tax, either (deducted visibly) | Apr 12 22:30 |
| trmanco | |
Apr 12 22:30 |
| schestowitz | I might use Fedora next. PCLOS looks temping too. Both are good with hardware, esp. the latter. | Apr 12 22:31 |
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| DavidGerard | good evening all | Apr 12 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | HOW DO I SHOT WIFI | Apr 12 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Howdy | Apr 12 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | or rather how do i shot ubuntu jaunty | Apr 12 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | preferably through the head | Apr 12 22:35 |
| schestowitz | How goes it? | Apr 12 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | ARGH | Apr 12 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | BETA HELL | Apr 12 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Why beta? | Apr 12 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Debian stable | Apr 12 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Or CentOS | Apr 12 22:36 |
| DavidGerard | I used to install the ubuntu next version a few months ahead, because interface bugs have 100% more chance of being fixed before release | Apr 12 22:36 |
| schestowitz | The polish… cream of the crop. Possibly cleaner than XP and OS X | Apr 12 22:36 |
| DavidGerard | and i’d expect basic functionality to y’know being there since debian unstable does in fact pretty much work | Apr 12 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Why upgrade? | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | I still use Mandriva current-1 | Apr 12 22:37 |
| DavidGerard | this has not been true the last several versions | Apr 12 22:37 |
| DavidGerard | because i like the latest app candy | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Naaa.. | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Stable is sometimes good | Apr 12 22:37 |
| DavidGerard | yeah, on servers | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | BN ran on WordPress 2.0.11 until last month | Apr 12 22:37 |
| DavidGerard | on my laptop i want CANDY | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | The upgrade was needed though, esp. for caching | Apr 12 22:37 |
| DavidGerard | o_0 that’s a good way to get 0wn3d | Apr 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | I take the candy for granted now | Apr 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | The other day I saw an XP desktop | Apr 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | My boss… | Apr 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | It’s so nasty | Apr 12 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | i am tempted by debian sid as i know how to unfuck an apt-based distro courtesy running ubuntu betas  |
Apr 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | The windows stay all straight when they move. | Apr 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Weird… | Apr 12 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | man, ubuntu betas are an instant course in debian administration | Apr 12 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | yeah. | Apr 12 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | unix pwns xp for interface | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Opening PDF has this lag too | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | ubuntu has regarded mac as the target for many years | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | quite rightly | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Like… you have some silly splash screen ans stuff. | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | os x really is just that much better in every way | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | And there’s one desktop for all the stuff | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | One monitor too | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | in interface | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | (he has an overhead projector) | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | no, xp does multiple monitors quite smoothly | Apr 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | I know | Apr 12 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | it’s actualy pretty good at that | Apr 12 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Many people don’t use the functionality | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | the nvidia drivers – you know how crappy they are on linux? | Apr 12 22:40 |
| schestowitz | It’s like people who insists that reading on paper is better | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | they’re just as crappy on winders | Apr 12 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Wishful thinking | Apr 12 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Self justifications are infinite | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | at work we have xp with dual screen and nvidia cards | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | nvidia blue screens are de rigeur | Apr 12 22:40 |
| schestowitz | My parents stopped getting the paper | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | i have my monitors set up portrait | Apr 12 22:40 |
| DavidGerard | that *is* nice | Apr 12 22:41 |
| DavidGerard | portrait >>> landscape for desktops | Apr 12 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but… | Apr 12 22:41 |
| DavidGerard | web browsing, email, you name it | Apr 12 22:41 |
| schestowitz | How about a 8-side cube surrounding you? | Apr 12 22:41 |
| schestowitz | With widescreen-dual?  |
Apr 12 22:41 |
| DavidGerard | it’s like the late 80s when i was doing dtp on macs | Apr 12 22:41 |
| DavidGerard | high-end macs being 20mhz 68030 | Apr 12 22:41 |
| DavidGerard | 1024 by 768 SUPER ULTRA HIGH RESOLUTION | Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | We have another Linux switcher: http://www.technovia.co.uk/2009/04/windows-… | Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: not just a matter of pixels | Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Depending on the user’s eye sight | Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Something that took me a while to realise | Apr 12 22:42 |
| DavidGerard | yeah, those were in black and white too |
Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Cause I always max up the res | Apr 12 22:42 |
| DavidGerard | and at 72dpi, not 96dpi | Apr 12 22:42 |
| schestowitz | One of my monitors does over 2000px horizontal | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | mac late ’80s. a PIXEL is a POINT, a POINT is a PIXEL! | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | we had a sun 21″ until v recently | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | we freecycled it | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Sun was great | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | or rather, chavcycled it | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | The workstation | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | (left it out the front until someone took it) | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | But pricey and facing an aggressor. | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | it was lovely | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | did up to 1600×1200 well | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Looking Glass seems dead | Apr 12 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | but took 300W power and WAY too much space | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Must suck to be a dev of it | Apr 12 22:43 |
| schestowitz | So nice, so much work, so /dev/null worthy at the end | Apr 12 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | a 21″ lcd is worth it purely in electricity | Apr 12 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | i use kde4 | Apr 12 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | kde4 is schweet | Apr 12 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | unfortunately, it’s all but incomprehensible to xp converts in my experience | Apr 12 22:44 |
| schestowitz | I might put 2009.1 (sure, Mandriva!) when it’s out | Apr 12 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | they cope very well with kde3 though, because it looks jsut like xp/2000 but works | Apr 12 22:44 |
| schestowitz | I’ll want to buy it… I hope Mandriva stays strong until MSFT goes under, not literally | Apr 12 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | need something, a theme package or whatever, to make kde4 work just like kde3 and they can unlock features as they are inspired to explore | Apr 12 22:45 |
| silentivm | agreed, DavidGerard | Apr 12 22:45 |
| schestowitz | The French police is among those in France that set the trend now | Apr 12 22:45 |
| silentivm | last time I tried KDE4, I didn’t enjoy it at all | Apr 12 22:45 |
| silentivm | too fancy for me | Apr 12 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | i love it | Apr 12 22:45 |
| silentivm | I’d need a KDE3-like mode | Apr 12 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva needs to pressure on them to buy Mandriva, not get free Ubuntu | Apr 12 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | i can’t stand kde3 any more | Apr 12 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | but i’ve been converting my gf’s teenage daughters to ubuntu | Apr 12 22:46 |
| DavidGerard | one of them got a virus via msn the other week. | Apr 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | Themes..? | Apr 12 22:46 |
| DavidGerard | we burnt the machine to the ground and rebuilt | Apr 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | Today: http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/… | Apr 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | Nice… | Apr 12 22:46 |
| silentivm | but for the time being, I’m happy with my Openbox setup | Apr 12 22:46 |
| DavidGerard | she demands real msn, hates pidgin and trillian | Apr 12 22:46 |
| silentivm | so I’ll stick to it until I feel like trying KDE4 again | Apr 12 22:46 |
| schestowitz | Give Ubuntu Jaunty An Apple Flavour < http://bigbrovar.wordpress.com/200… > But I thought “only Mac were pretty”… | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | but if she gets another virus she gets ubuntu and aMSN like it or not | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | kde 4 is really really gorgeous | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | 4.2 is fit for humans | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | 4.3 may be fit for n00bs or xp refugees | Apr 12 22:47 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: heard os Utah? | Apr 12 22:47 |
| schestowitz | *of | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | windows 7′s interface is actaully very nice. like kde4 only not as extreme. | Apr 12 22:47 |
| DavidGerard | no | Apr 12 22:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/scit… http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-102… | Apr 12 22:47 |
| silentivm | I didn’t try Win7 | Apr 12 22:48 |
| silentivm | and it’s likely I never will | Apr 12 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | i tried the beta in a vm | Apr 12 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | mostly to try wine on windows in it %-D | Apr 12 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | wine on interix almost compiles now | Apr 12 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | it’s great fun | Apr 12 22:48 |
| silentivm | neat | Apr 12 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | the public excuse is to run old apps on new windows | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | the real reason is to make wine more cross-platform | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | at present it works on linux, linux and maybe linux | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | mac os is supported by codeweavers | Apr 12 22:49 |
| silentivm | Wine runs on *BSD, doesn’t it? | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | freebsd is clinging on by a patchset | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | solaris works when someone can be bothered | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | and those are the *officially supported* platforms | Apr 12 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | openbsd compiles and nothing at all works, not even –version | Apr 12 22:50 |
| silentivm |  |
Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | netbsd probably compiles | Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | really, its crossplatform is presently dismal | Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | now, cygwin. that makes linux look like a normal unix. | Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | it’s GNU software with a bit of linux /proc emulation and random crap copied form various BSDs as the whim takes them. | Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | literally. | Apr 12 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | it’s not quite the mythical Weirdix but close. | Apr 12 22:51 |
| DavidGerard | interix is like unix in the 1990s, i.e. all the little annoyances that make GNU software such a relief of pain | Apr 12 22:51 |
| DavidGerard | if microsoft saw money in getting a unix cert for windows, interix would need v little work to pass cert | Apr 12 22:52 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: I’ve never used Wine for practical purposes | Apr 12 22:52 |
| silentivm | I use Wine to run a few apps I need | Apr 12 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Mostly experimenting to see/validate some very old apps work | Apr 12 22:52 |
| DavidGerard | i use it mostly for my favourite sudoku game |
Apr 12 22:52 |
| schestowitz | I still have things like ARJ.EXE on my HDD | Apr 12 22:52 |
| DavidGerard | also for exactaudiocopy | Apr 12 22:52 |
| silentivm | I use it to run a few electronics apps | Apr 12 22:53 |
| DavidGerard | (really bad disks will tend to work in either EAC or cdparanoia) | Apr 12 22:53 |
| schestowitz | I have Warcraft 1 and 2 as well. | Apr 12 22:53 |
| silentivm | for DOS games I use DOSBox | Apr 12 22:53 |
| DavidGerard | it was also interesting trying windows firefox in it. it really does run that much faster under wine than native. same version. | Apr 12 22:53 |
| schestowitz | So.. does linux have Line? | Apr 12 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Linux is Not an Emulator? | Apr 12 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Like… can I run KNode in Windows? | Apr 12 22:53 |
| schestowitz | In a stable fashion? | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | kde4 ahs been ported to windows | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | currently “interesting alpha” | Apr 12 22:54 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 is still experimental for Windows I suppose. | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | i can’t get ANYTHING to work in xp | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | i wanted amarok, doesn’t work | Apr 12 22:54 |
| schestowitz | that’s OK | Apr 12 22:54 |
| silentivm | I have XP on my desktop, but it rarely sees any use | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | and all the symlinks in the start menu are wrokg | Apr 12 22:54 |
| schestowitz | It means all is right | Apr 12 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | wrong | Apr 12 22:54 |
| schestowitz | KDE devs don’t waste their time on Windows | Apr 12 22:54 |
| schestowitz | They can fix bugs for apps on platforms that work | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | XP is a mare | Apr 12 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | yeah. the point of kde on windows is that cross-platform means your app is more robust | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Vista7 is a Vista to be… another PR fight for Microsoft | Apr 12 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | it’s for the app’s benefit, not windows’ benefit | Apr 12 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | windows 7 feels nicer than vista | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I’m not sure. | Apr 12 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | it’s fat but responsive | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | [About the port] | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: it’s nto final | Apr 12 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | i know | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Wait until they change params | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Like the fileystsem letency | Apr 12 22:55 |
| schestowitz | It borks it easily | Apr 12 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | vista betas were reportedly more responsive than final | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | MS wanted to show fast booting | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | At /what expense/? | Apr 12 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | this is their last chance | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | No DRM enabled? Overclocking in the coding sense? | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: Vista was | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Nov2006 (RTM) Microsoft was low on funds | Apr 12 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | i suspect even windows 7 is too late. it can’t be as fast as xp, let alone faster. | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | After heavy buybacks already | Apr 12 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7=maybe 2010 | Apr 12 22:57 |
| DavidGerard | it’ll suck less than vista, but that’s a sad goal | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Still no SP | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft uses its shill already | Apr 12 22:57 |
| DavidGerard | otoh, i’ve been seeing well-backed-up predictions of ms’s demise for many years | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | To say “don’t wait for SP” | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | They use Michel Silver | Apr 12 22:57 |
| DavidGerard | i’ll believe it when it happens | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | One of the cheekiest nastiest shill they have | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | he shills with a Gartner hat | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Has lunch with MS | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | And attacks ODF | Apr 12 22:57 |
| schestowitz | *Michael Silver, not Michel (typo) | Apr 12 22:58 |
| DavidGerard | windows 7 will come out. it’ll be less sucky than vista. | Apr 12 22:58 |
| DavidGerard | it will be on machines by default. the interface won’t be very horrible and will be reasonably responsive. | Apr 12 22:58 |
| DavidGerard | consumers will probably be reasonably pleased with it. | Apr 12 22:58 |
| DavidGerard | businesses? who knows. | Apr 12 22:58 |
| DavidGerard | at work we’ve been coming up with ways to stay off vista | Apr 12 22:59 |
| DavidGerard | make sure internal apps work on xp but are broken on vista | Apr 12 22:59 |
| DavidGerard | roadblocks for being force-upgraded | Apr 12 22:59 |
| DavidGerard | others in other companies have independently been doing the same thing | Apr 12 22:59 |
| DavidGerard | haven’t tried them in wine ;-D | Apr 12 22:59 |
| DavidGerard | we did the same trick with firefox, got it into the new standard desktop build | Apr 12 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | one internal app 20 people use every day was broken in IE for 6 months with no-one noticing | Apr 12 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | “we need firefox for x x x app” | Apr 12 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | will become “we need xp for x x x app” | Apr 12 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | “or wine on linux will do, but vista is broken. so sorry.” | Apr 12 23:01 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 12 23:01 |
| silentivm | good idea | Apr 12 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | worked for us | Apr 12 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | i’m sure microsoft is keenly aware that the office drones are *actively* fighting vista to this extent | Apr 12 23:01 |
| *DavidGerard makes mental note to see if said internal apps do work in wine | Apr 12 23:02 | |
| schestowitz | How about [O]ffice drones? | Apr 12 23:02 |
| schestowitz | MSO07 is bad UI | Apr 12 23:02 |
| DavidGerard | well, speaking as an Office drone | Apr 12 23:02 |
| DavidGerard | 2003 | Apr 12 23:02 |
| schestowitz | For the illusion of added value/change | Apr 12 23:02 |
| DavidGerard | outlook is irreplaceable. | Apr 12 23:02 |
| schestowitz | “Buy the new version, it’s……..err…. deiffernet” | Apr 12 23:02 |
| DavidGerard | not as an email client, but as a meeting client. | Apr 12 23:02 |
| DavidGerard | management will not tolerate anything less. | Apr 12 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Some people use Google | Apr 12 23:03 |
| DavidGerard | it really isn’t comparable. | Apr 12 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft doesn’t want to mention the G word in this context | Apr 12 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Gives people ‘dirty’ ideas | Apr 12 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Mobility too | Apr 12 23:03 |
| DavidGerard | outlook is really not too bad as a meeting arranger | Apr 12 23:03 |
| DavidGerard | it’s just a shitty email client | Apr 12 23:03 |
| DavidGerard | and ms office 97->2003 is much nicer to use than openoffice | Apr 12 23:03 |
| DavidGerard | i hate using OOo | Apr 12 23:04 |
| DavidGerard | it feels like eating a bowl of sawdust with milk for breakfast every morning | Apr 12 23:04 |
| DavidGerard | mso is way smoother and mroe usable | Apr 12 23:04 |
| DavidGerard | of course, it’s also way unstable and chokes ion bad documents and has completely unpredictable behavioor on large docs and all that | Apr 12 23:04 |
| DavidGerard | but it hurts less *at first*. | Apr 12 23:05 |
| DavidGerard | (i feel it’s very important to be clear on one’s opponent’s strengths. i am no fan of microsoft’s odious behaviour, but their software has strengths that must be acknowledged to beat them.) | Apr 12 23:06 |
| DavidGerard | mac office 2004 is sweet. it’s ridiculously usable. | Apr 12 23:06 |
| DavidGerard | and way more stable than the windows version. | Apr 12 23:06 |
| schestowitz | What do you need it for? | Apr 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Feature-wise? | Apr 12 23:07 |
| DavidGerard | openoffice core devs need macs with mac office 2004 to use. | Apr 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Compatibility? | Apr 12 23:07 |
| DavidGerard | it’s not features. | Apr 12 23:07 |
| DavidGerard | i use mso at work because it’s what we’re given. | Apr 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Heard of LyX? | Apr 12 23:07 |
| silentivm | I don’t like anything Office-related, to say | Apr 12 23:07 |
| silentivm | I need to learn LaTeX, urgently | Apr 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: that’s no reason…. “what we’re given.” | Apr 12 23:07 |
| DavidGerard | i tried installing OOo and it was just … painful, in small ways. | Apr 12 23:07 |
| silentivm | I have no problems using OOo | Apr 12 23:07 |
| DavidGerard | it’s a subjective feel thing. | Apr 12 23:07 |
| schestowitz | It’s like saying mushroom soup is great because it’s what we’re given. | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Is it required? | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it is | Apr 12 23:08 |
| DavidGerard | for work? yes | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Some people need macros of MSO | Apr 12 23:08 |
| DavidGerard | as i said, i’d use OOo but it’s not as nice to use at all | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Define nice to use | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Does it not make coffee | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | No smiling Clippy? | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Sure, Clippy may look nice | Apr 12 23:08 |
| DavidGerard | uh, you’re trying to define the problem away. that doesn’t make it go away. | Apr 12 23:08 |
| schestowitz | But it’s irrittating people | Apr 12 23:09 |
| DavidGerard | that’s a form of denial. | Apr 12 23:09 |
| DavidGerard | denial doesn’t make the free world’s stuff better. | Apr 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | I like OOo | Apr 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Gets my themes |
Apr 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Dark shades | Apr 12 23:09 |
| DavidGerard | i like it for its functionality, robustness and predictability. | Apr 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Inherits the 3d effects too | Apr 12 23:09 |
| DavidGerard | it’s also stuppidly fat and slow. | Apr 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | No ODF | Apr 12 23:10 |
| DavidGerard | if i’m dashing off a document i’ll tend to go to google docs. | Apr 12 23:10 |
| DavidGerard | i’d actually rather that at work but we have the big enterprise licence etc | Apr 12 23:10 |
| DavidGerard | and stupid bluecoat filtering proxies that break google | Apr 12 23:10 |
| DavidGerard | i bet ms is pleased with those | Apr 12 23:10 |
| DavidGerard | not websearching, but login for gmail or docs | Apr 12 23:11 |
| schestowitz | I know how many people use their PCs | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Like family | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | They don’t use it for office purposes | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | They dash off as you say | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Quick letter or opening some presentation | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | I fail to see how the cost of $500 can be judtified for this | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft NEVER mentions OOo | Apr 12 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Its purpose if for people to go like, “what?? I could open all those thingie I get by E-mail for FREE??” | Apr 12 23:13 |
| schestowitz | It’s the stage where, like Apple, the competition must not be mentioned | Apr 12 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Same with Java BTW… Novell knows… | Apr 12 23:13 |
| schestowitz | You will never find Microsoft employees like Miguel de Icaza mentioning Java | Apr 12 23:14 |
| DavidGerard | oh absolutely | Apr 12 23:16 |
| DavidGerard | i’ve seen openoffice on sale in the local poundshop | Apr 12 23:16 |
| DavidGerard | “PerfectOffice” in a big presentation box | Apr 12 23:16 |
| DavidGerard | it was basically ooo 2 in a box | Apr 12 23:17 |
| DavidGerard | included sources on the cd! | Apr 12 23:17 |
| DavidGerard | completely licence compliant | Apr 12 23:17 |
| DavidGerard | and presumably everyone involved was ACTUALLY MAKING A PROFIT selling the final product at £1 | Apr 12 23:17 |
| DavidGerard | google docs is all the word processor almost anyone needs | Apr 12 23:18 |
| DavidGerard | if you use gmail it already offers to open .doc files in google docs | Apr 12 23:18 |
| DavidGerard | gmail is the best email client i’ve ever used | Apr 12 23:18 |
| DavidGerard | i want thunderbird with (1) conversation threading (2) three-state (read/unread/archived) email | Apr 12 23:19 |
| DavidGerard | then i’d go back to it | Apr 12 23:19 |
| DavidGerard | i’m wondering how much of my work stuff would be suitable for google docs | Apr 12 23:19 |
| DavidGerard | most of it | Apr 12 23:19 |
| DavidGerard | it’s excel spreadsheets being used for data, not calculation | Apr 12 23:20 |
| DavidGerard | doc files attached to emails | Apr 12 23:20 |
| DavidGerard | the irreplaceable element at present is outlook/exchange | Apr 12 23:20 |
| DavidGerard | that’s the heart of the monopoly | Apr 12 23:20 |
| DavidGerard | nearly good enough is not good enough | Apr 12 23:20 |
| DavidGerard | a replacement for one or both has to be Perfect. | Apr 12 23:21 |
| DavidGerard | and more than that – Better. | Apr 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: thunderbird has that | Apr 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Built in even | Apr 12 23:21 |
| DavidGerard | what, 3-state and conversation threading? | Apr 12 23:21 |
| DavidGerard | i moved from thunderbird 1.x to gmail | Apr 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | It does a lot more, even without extensions. When did you last try it? | Apr 12 23:21 |
| DavidGerard | 1.x days | Apr 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Try 2.0 | Apr 12 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Or wait for 3.0 | Apr 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Coming soon. | Apr 12 23:22 |
| DavidGerard | hrmmmmm | Apr 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | I think I use Thunderbird more than I use my Web browser | Apr 12 23:22 |
| DavidGerard | speaking of replacing exchange | Apr 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | I probably use Thunderbird like 40% of my time | Apr 12 23:22 |
| DavidGerard | there are things an o/s replacement could do that *would* be better than exchange | Apr 12 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Recently I’ve used xchat a lot too, but there you go | Apr 12 23:22 |
| DavidGerard | e.g. not crapping itself on huge mailboxes | Apr 12 23:22 |
| DavidGerard | yeah, xchat is the best irc client i’ve ever used | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | on mac and windows too! | Apr 12 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | not hanging the client whenever it’s thinking | Apr 12 23:23 |
| schestowitz | My basis for comparison is mere | Apr 12 23:23 |
| schestowitz | I used mirc when I was 14 or younger | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | exchange is very bad at ahh actually managing data | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | mirc is horrible. | Apr 12 23:23 |
| schestowitz | I used xchat briefly in 2005 | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | i went back to bitchx at the command line. | Apr 12 23:23 |
| silentivm | I used mIRC for quite a while | Apr 12 23:23 |
| DavidGerard | i’m using xchat now. | Apr 12 23:23 |
| silentivm | used to script for it, even | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | 3.8.6. | Apr 12 23:24 |
| silentivm | moved to XChat as soon as I moved to Linux | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | 2.8.6 i mean | Apr 12 23:24 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: our Exchange Server crashed today | Apr 12 23:24 |
| schestowitz | very typical | Apr 12 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Never happens to my Linux server | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | yeah, i just found it in Ubuntu Hoary | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | the story of me converting to Ubuntu: | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | wife played frozen bubble at a friend’s house | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | said “i want that on my system! can i have ubuntu on my laptop?” | Apr 12 23:24 |
| DavidGerard | so, frozen bubble got a convert | Apr 12 23:25 |
| silentivm | the story of me migrating to Linux: someone told me “Linux doesn’t crash, is free and is good for programming”, I was interested in programming, I requested a free Ubuntu CD as I had dial-up at the time. done, another Linux convert | Apr 12 23:25 |
| DavidGerard | i shifted my own laptop to ubuntu because freebsd 5′s laptop hardware support wasn’t so good | Apr 12 23:25 |
| DavidGerard | i far prefer unix administration on bsd | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | but linux supprots more hardware | Apr 12 23:26 |
| silentivm | I never used BSD except on virtual machines | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | and apt-based packaging and repositories … shits all over the freebsd ports system. | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | the bsds are very nice | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | they are lovely pure unixes | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | linux is actually ahh useful ;-p | Apr 12 23:26 |
| DavidGerard | (man, bsd fans are gonna lynch me for that) | Apr 12 23:27 |
| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 12 23:27 | |
| DavidGerard | i used synaptic in ubuntu | Apr 12 23:27 |
| DavidGerard | after having way too much pain with freebsd ports | Apr 12 23:27 |
| DavidGerard | and my jaw dropped | Apr 12 23:27 |
| schestowitz | I never used Synaptic I think | Apr 12 23:27 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 12 23:27 |
| schestowitz | On Ubuntu I use apt-get | Apr 12 23:28 |
| silentivm | I used it | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | it’s better than most | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | it’s fast | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DavidGerard | and i emailed freebsd questions with “dudes. go look. try it. this is how it’s done.” | Apr 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | On all machines of mine that run Ubuntu | Apr 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | 3 of them…. | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DavidGerard | i look forward to debian-kfreebsd coming out of experimental | Apr 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | But I use Mandriva mainly | Apr 12 23:28 |
| silentivm | I use Arch mainly | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DavidGerard | because it really is so much easier to administer at the kernel level | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DavidGerard | i really, really hate linux sysadmin. | Apr 12 23:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: assuming you know package name | Apr 12 23:28 |
| silentivm | still, I’d like to see Arch with a BSD kernel | Apr 12 23:28 |
| DavidGerard | i’d rather administer solaris than linux, at the close-to-the-kernel level | Apr 12 23:29 |
| DavidGerard | i’ve been a solaris admin for 8 years and i freely admit it’s horrible, and it’s still less horrible than linux | Apr 12 23:29 |
| DavidGerard | gnu is great, linux is horrible | Apr 12 23:29 |
| DavidGerard | (all software sucks, all hardware sucks) | Apr 12 23:29 |
| DavidGerard | kde has adept, which is … an epic interface fail | Apr 12 23:30 |
| DavidGerard | synaptic is far easier to use | Apr 12 23:30 |
| DavidGerard | they really shoulda just ported synaptic to Qt | Apr 12 23:30 |
| DavidGerard | instead they reinvented the wheel | Apr 12 23:30 |
| DavidGerard | foolish humans | Apr 12 23:30 |
| DavidGerard | computers are stupid, annoying and don’t work | Apr 12 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft shills are being exposed badly: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/1… | Apr 12 23:31 |
| MinceR | well, kde4.2 is disappointing — i think i’ll try switching to compiz. | Apr 12 23:31 |
| schestowitz | I have no idea who this German poster is, but it’s rather evealing. | Apr 12 23:32 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: did you try it? | Apr 12 23:32 |
| MinceR | yes | Apr 12 23:32 |
| schestowitz | When? | Apr 12 23:32 |
| MinceR | i’m using it right now | Apr 12 23:32 |
| MinceR | i’ve upgraded to intrepid yesterday | Apr 12 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Less options, eh? | Apr 12 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They pulled an Apple on you. | Apr 12 23:33 |
| MinceR | sort of | Apr 12 23:33 |
| MinceR | i expected it to present the full feature set of compiz, but it doesn’t | Apr 12 23:33 |
| DavidGerard | intrepid is 4.1 by default, barely usable by humans | Apr 12 23:33 |
| DavidGerard | 4.2 for intrepid is only via ppa | Apr 12 23:33 |
| MinceR | i’m pretty sure i have 4.2 :> | Apr 12 23:33 |
| DavidGerard | 4.2 is in jaunty by default | Apr 12 23:34 |
| MinceR | kde apps say they’re running on 4.2 and i’ve tried some features that are new in 4.2 | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | have you got the wallpaper with all the white circles in a pleasing aesthetic design? that’s 4.2 | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | then you ahve 4.2 |
Apr 12 23:34 |
| MinceR | i did get that | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | well, matter of taste | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | 4.1 was not ready for humans# | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | 4.2 is close to ready for humans | Apr 12 23:34 |
| MinceR | the new panel wastes space as if it had the whole screen to it or something | Apr 12 23:34 |
| DavidGerard | uh? i tweaked it to stay outa my face | Apr 12 23:35 |
| DavidGerard | it actually autohides properly in 4.2 | Apr 12 23:35 |
| MinceR | the task list icons are xbox hueg | Apr 12 23:35 |
| *DavidGerard bounces the panel up and down a bit | Apr 12 23:35 | |
| MinceR | the desktop activity switcher expands incredibly unless i give it its own panel | Apr 12 23:35 |
| MinceR | yes, working autohide is nice | Apr 12 23:36 |
| DavidGerard | i use coverflow | Apr 12 23:36 |
| DavidGerard | brb | Apr 12 23:36 |
| MinceR | also, it’s crash-happy | Apr 12 23:37 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: any lucene mono connection? I just found http://www.ddj.com/linux-open-so… | Apr 12 23:38 |
| MinceR | i’m playing around with a second, auto-hiding panel to hold the space-hungry applets | Apr 12 23:40 |
| DavidGerard | connection? dunno about connection | Apr 12 23:41 |
| DavidGerard | as i said, wikimedia used to run a c# lucene when java wasn’t realy free at all | Apr 12 23:41 |
| DavidGerard | they switched back to java when it was free enough and promptly doubled performance! | Apr 12 23:42 |
| DavidGerard | really. with an increasingly free java, there is NO REASON for c# or .NET to exist | Apr 12 23:42 |
| MinceR | |
Apr 12 23:42 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 12 23:42 |
| DavidGerard | something to compile c# to java bytecode would be all the conversion tool needed | Apr 12 23:42 |
| DavidGerard | crash-happy? | Apr 12 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | i haven’t had any crashes of kde 4.2 stuff, which surprises me | Apr 12 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | except amarok 2 which is terribly unstable | Apr 12 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | i’m actually back to amarok 1.4 just to play my damn music | Apr 12 23:45 |
| MinceR | i’ve had a solid freeze already | Apr 12 23:46 |
| MinceR | a couple ctrl+alt+backspaces gave me control over the machine | Apr 12 23:47 |
| MinceR | (obviously i’ve lost the session) | Apr 12 23:47 |
| silentivm | never had KDE4 crash hard here | Apr 12 23:47 |
| silentivm | just sometimes stuff like plasma decides to die randomly | Apr 12 23:47 |
| silentivm | I will wait for KDE 4.3 to see what gives | Apr 12 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | huh | Apr 12 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | what distro? | Apr 12 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | oh, intrepid | Apr 12 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | weird | Apr 12 23:48 |
| *twitter (n=willhill@c-71-231-109-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 12 23:49 | |
| MinceR | i’ll see of compiz works better for me | Apr 12 23:50 |
| MinceR | s/of/if/ | Apr 12 23:50 |
| MinceR | i’ll mostly need good widgets for the widget layer |
Apr 12 23:50 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 12 23:50 |
| MinceR | the kde guys kept telling me kde4 will finally handle desktops and workspaces correctly (and separately) | Apr 12 23:51 |
| MinceR | it doesn’t | Apr 12 23:51 |
| MinceR | it still has desktops only and wants to arrange them into rows | Apr 12 23:51 |
| can you fix it? | Apr 12 23:51 | |
| DavidGerard | hm | Apr 12 23:52 |
| MinceR | i can’t | Apr 12 23:52 |
| MinceR | i know very little about window management programming | Apr 12 23:52 |
| bummer | Apr 12 23:53 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: That’s what the Add/Remove applet it for | Apr 12 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | that lits the most common things people want | Apr 12 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | the rest is listed in Synaptic and it provides more options for package maintenance | Apr 12 23:54 |
| *DavidGerard is off now | Apr 12 23:54 | |
| DavidGerard | nite all | Apr 12 23:54 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: regardign Java, exactly | Apr 12 23:54 |
| *DavidGerard has quit (“Leaving”) | Apr 12 23:54 | |
| schestowitz | That’s why MS hired a shill in Novell | Apr 12 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Oh, he’s gone | Apr 12 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | after that you drop to the terminal and use dpkg or apt if you need to use a FORCE flag or something | Apr 12 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The only really stupid thing Debian’s package manager does is that it doesn’t know that x86-64 is backwards compatible with x86-32 | Apr 12 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | so you have to use –force-architecture | Apr 12 23:55 |
| schestowitz | I won’t go there. | Apr 12 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Complexity that’s not required | Apr 12 23:56 |
| MinceR | there’s a bug that makes kwin tint the area behind the window with some random color i’m not sure the origin of (window title/border color?) if it’s set to have no border | Apr 12 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | x86-64 runs practically all user mode applications that x86-32 can, plus its own | Apr 12 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | it’s an extension, not a totally new arch | Apr 12 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | Dpkg acts like you’re trying to install MIPS software or something B-) | Apr 12 23:58 |
| MinceR | (though compiz isn’t exactly bugfree either) | Apr 12 23:58 |
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