04.25.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 24th, 2009 – Part 2
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| the_mad_hatter | Reason I ask is that Ubuntu 8.04 will boot on my P3 Thinkpad, but 8.10 won’t. | Apr 24 14:49 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | DRI 1 only support 1 opengl program at a time. | Apr 24 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Its also the first direct rendering system designed for X11. | Apr 24 14:49 |
| oiaohm | And its only just being replaced now. | Apr 24 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Yep a rendering system over 20 years old still in use by most Linux distributions DRI 1. | Apr 24 14:50 |
| MinceR | and MacOS “classic” is even worse. | Apr 24 14:50 |
| the_mad_hatter | But it is getting fixed, which is the main point. | Apr 24 14:50 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and an OS that’s more than 30 years old is the base of most modern OS-es now, and the ones that aren’t based on it tend to be inferior by far. :> | Apr 24 14:51 |
| oiaohm | DRI 1 was designed before opengl existed MinceR | Apr 24 14:51 |
| MinceR |  |
Apr 24 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Yes the bugger is showing its age. | Apr 24 14:51 |
| MinceR | what was it designed for then? | Apr 24 14:51 |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-232-8.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 24 14:52 | |
| oiaohm | 2d graphics and 2d accelerator only MinceR yes and we have been shoving opengl threw it. | Apr 24 14:52 |
| MinceR | ic | Apr 24 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Basically completely not upto the job. | Apr 24 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Also pre video cards having there own memory to manage too. | Apr 24 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Its more of a good luck than good management that DRI 1 works as good as it does . | Apr 24 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Sooner we are rid of DRI 1 the better. It served as well but its well past its retirement. | Apr 24 14:55 |
| oiaohm | Think about it MinceR If I pulled up a OS from 30 years ago and told you that you could not alter how anything works. Would you want to be using it today. | Apr 24 14:56 |
| oiaohm | That is basically what happened to DRI 1. Its current structs and internal design match its design from over 20 years ago. | Apr 24 14:57 |
| MinceR | things might be more alterable than they seem | Apr 24 14:57 |
| schestowitz | twitter: Apple too is falling to an extent | Apr 24 14:57 |
| schestowitz | The press hardly covers the main story | Apr 24 14:57 |
| MinceR | i certainly didn’t know X could be extended so far as it was since i started using it. | Apr 24 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft dfelcted the stupid press to revenue #, not profit | Apr 24 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Not in the case of DRI 1. | Apr 24 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Opengl was having to be translated into DRI1 code on applicaiton side then translated back to video card code on the other side. | Apr 24 14:58 |
| oiaohm | DRI 1 section of X11 had no design for addon alterations. | Apr 24 14:59 |
| oiaohm | Intel lead graphical driver designer spent 2 years looking at DRI1 in a hope of finding a way to upgrade it. | Apr 24 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Before resorting to scorched earth method. | Apr 24 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Because DRI 1 design flaws are basically not fixable and remain compadible. | Apr 24 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Apple down, Microsoft down, Linux up: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/24… | Apr 24 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Apple is doing the right thing. | Apr 24 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Apple profits are up. They see the storm coming and prepairing for it. | Apr 24 15:02 |
| schestowitz | Red hat prospects are up. They see the storm coming and prepairing for it. | Apr 24 15:03 |
| schestowitz | To rephrase | Apr 24 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Redhat has also braced. | Apr 24 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat still hires | Apr 24 15:03 |
| schestowitz | E.g. Mandriva devs | Apr 24 15:03 |
| oiaohm | They are not expanding as fast on programmers as there profit allows. | Apr 24 15:03 |
| schestowitz | OK, but Red hat can wait patiently with the desktops developed also by other companies that sell Linux (e.g. Canonical). Let Microsoft knock itself out with kickbacks | Apr 24 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Then Red hat can strike | Apr 24 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Google is already entering the desktops from the bottom to the top | Apr 24 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Phone->netbooks-> … | Apr 24 15:04 |
| oiaohm | I am talking about another lack of money storm. | Apr 24 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Big problem redhat risk is companies retreating to in house. | Apr 24 15:05 |
| oiaohm | USA lack of regulation some one need to be skinned alive for it. | Apr 24 15:06 |
| oiaohm | But the lack of regulation is giving Linux the best chance its ever had. | Apr 24 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Once Linux get to top. I expect to see freebsd and solarias and others also start pushing there way back into the market. | Apr 24 15:09 |
| MinceR | sounds like wishful thinking :> | Apr 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Well, POSIX | Apr 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | POS UNIX |
Apr 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | “Yet another big technology corporation is bemoaning the lack of engineering talent for hire in the United States. This time it’s Google. ” http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?t… | Apr 24 15:12 |
| schestowitz | The World Outpaces Redmondland in GNU/Linux Interest…. | Apr 24 15:15 |
| the_mad_hatter | Just think of how frustrating it must be for Microsloth. There’s all this really good source code that they can see, but cannot use…. | Apr 24 15:18 |
| schestowitz | Try this link: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/onl… | Apr 24 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Something funny happens | Apr 24 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Oh, it works now | Apr 24 15:20 |
| schestowitz | There was maybe a DNS cough | Apr 24 15:20 |
| schestowitz | the_mad_hatter: they can start again with Singularity | Apr 24 15:21 |
| schestowitz | How much time do they have and how much money for development at their disposal? | Apr 24 15:21 |
| the_mad_hatter | But do they have the talent? | Apr 24 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Well, Microsoft is Kool…………… Aide | Apr 24 15:22 |
| schestowitz | Aid | Apr 24 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Most programs that run on Linux run on solarias and freebsd MinceR | Apr 24 15:22 |
| oiaohm | X11 graphical system rewrite is also being picked up by them. | Apr 24 15:22 |
| the_mad_hatter | Or for that matter OSX | Apr 24 15:23 |
| oiaohm | OSX has a different graphical system. | Apr 24 15:24 |
| oiaohm | Does not get as rich of ground from Linux being dominate. | Apr 24 15:24 |
| MinceR | osx can run some form of x, if you can put up with its inherent retardedness | Apr 24 15:24 |
| MinceR | but bsd-s are held back by some factors | Apr 24 15:25 |
| MinceR | such as the developers’ hatred of innovation :> | Apr 24 15:25 |
| the_mad_hatter | I run X on OSX, for Inscape | Apr 24 15:25 |
| the_mad_hatter | Inkscape | Apr 24 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Not everything will work right with OSX version of X | Apr 24 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Ok they might join the great X11 update. | Apr 24 15:25 |
| MinceR | for example, window managers  |
Apr 24 15:25 |
| the_mad_hatter | To make Inkscape work you have to install a new version of X | Apr 24 15:26 |
| oiaohm | That is still a dri 1 X | Apr 24 15:26 |
| MinceR | hm, can you run xorg on osx? (so that x won’t be just a few extra windows but rather it can manage the whole screen) | Apr 24 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Does not have the dri2 advantage of X11 bypass for opengl and the like. | Apr 24 15:27 |
| oiaohm | dri2 requires kernel alterations. | Apr 24 15:28 |
| oiaohm | OSX might if they do it will be good. DRI2 + KMS allows X11 stacking. Ie running a full X11 with windows manager in a window with full opengl support. | Apr 24 15:28 |
| Balrog | MinceR: you could run OS X in full screen mode in 10.4 | Apr 24 15:30 |
| Balrog | but when they switched from Xfree86 to Xorg they ran into problems | Apr 24 15:30 |
| schestowitz | “Twitter is an ideal medium to inject fake facts into society for precisely this reason.” http://www.schneier.com/blog/archi… | Apr 24 15:30 |
| Balrog | it’s very close to being finished in Xorg / 10.5, if it’s not already there | Apr 24 15:30 |
| oiaohm | It will get worse. | Apr 24 15:31 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: …? | Apr 24 15:31 |
| oiaohm | X.org will drop dri1 support at some point. | Apr 24 15:31 |
| oiaohm | So far OSX has not started work on what is required for dri2 | Apr 24 15:32 |
| Balrog | they moved from Xorg 1.3 to 1.4 in 2008.07.19 | Apr 24 15:34 |
| the_mad_hatter | Let’s face it – the proprietary software companies are falling behind, and will never catch up. Apple makes great hardware, but while they once had a huge lead in OS development, they’ve lost that lead now, and will never regain it. As for Microsoft, all they ever were was Apple wannabes, and it shows. | Apr 24 15:37 |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-232-8.tukw.qwest.net) has left #boycottnovell | Apr 24 15:37 | |
| Balrog | Apple will be forced to change parts of their business methods with time | Apr 24 15:37 |
| oiaohm | X.org 1.5 is the start of the dri2 line. | Apr 24 15:39 |
| Balrog | OK. Their Xorg 1.5 source tree has /some/ activity | Apr 24 15:40 |
| oiaohm | Note start | Apr 24 15:40 |
| Balrog | hopefully will be ready in time for 10.6 | Apr 24 15:40 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 24 15:40 |
| oiaohm | Most of dri2 appears in 1.6 and more will appear in 1.7 | Apr 24 15:40 |
| oiaohm | This is why I say it will get worse. | Apr 24 15:40 |
| the_mad_hatter | If it wasn’t for Free Software, specifically BSD licensed, Apple would be dead. | Apr 24 15:40 |
| Balrog | “First release including the 1.5 server branch” is due in 3 weeks | Apr 24 15:41 |
| Balrog | the_mad_hatter: don’t forget NeXT | Apr 24 15:41 |
| oiaohm | 1.6.1 is out. | Apr 24 15:42 |
| oiaohm | of X.org | Apr 24 15:42 |
| Balrog | yes, I know … | Apr 24 15:42 |
| Balrog | many people still use 1.5 | Apr 24 15:42 |
| Balrog | like with GCC … not everyone is switching to 4.4 yet | Apr 24 15:42 |
| the_mad_hatter | what was NEXT based on? | Apr 24 15:42 |
| the_mad_hatter | BSD. | Apr 24 15:42 |
| oiaohm | 1.5 without extras still is DRI 1. | Apr 24 15:43 |
| Balrog | Mach kernel, BSD userland (portions), Objective-C/”cocoa” GUI | Apr 24 15:43 |
| oiaohm | Linux and BSD kernels are both having a really rough time of DRI 2 alterations. | Apr 24 15:45 |
| oiaohm | OS X has a extra complexitity there own graphical envorment. | Apr 24 15:45 |
| Balrog | yes, that’s what’s good about it….Cocoa/Obj-C | Apr 24 15:46 |
| the_mad_hatter | from an end user standpoint none of that matters | Apr 24 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Performance matters. | Apr 24 15:48 |
| the_mad_hatter | all that matters is whether or not it works, and it doesn’t work any better than Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva | Apr 24 15:48 |
| Balrog | true, but the OS X interface tends to be better from an end user standpoint (but some dispute this) | Apr 24 15:48 |
| oiaohm | Another area were Linux kernel is still having fun. | Apr 24 15:48 |
| the_mad_hatter | OSX is fancier than Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva, but it’s not fancier than Moon OS. | Apr 24 15:50 |
| trmanco | Is Mono a religion or a technology? | Apr 24 15:50 |
| trmanco | : http://nocturn.vsbnet.be… “What I’m not fine with is the continued personal attacks of the Mono camp against all that oppose it, including myself, the Gnote developers and someone we all owe a lot to, Richard Stallman.” | Apr 24 15:50 |
| trmanco | isn’t this familiar ? | Apr 24 15:50 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=believe5@69.115.46.220) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 24 15:54 | |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Apr 24 15:54 | |
| schestowitz | Microsodfr> | Apr 24 16:05 |
| trmanco | yeah | Apr 24 16:06 |
| schestowitz | What happens when Gordon Brown gets angry? The laser printer gets it < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics… > | Apr 24 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Good link BTW | Apr 24 16:07 |
| schestowitz | The headline reminded me of what people call the MS religion | Apr 24 16:07 |
| trmanco | 84 percent say no thanks to Windows 7: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/en… | Apr 24 16:07 |
| trmanco | hehe | Apr 24 16:07 |
| schestowitz | It’s acommon term that refers to the ‘ecosystem’+the shills | Apr 24 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Like, in private conversation, people would talk about Enderle as preaching the MS religion. | Apr 24 16:08 |
| MinceR | what’s the term? | Apr 24 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Mary Jo Foley is scared of Apple fanboys | Apr 24 16:08 |
| schestowitz | She even uses trhe term | Apr 24 16:08 |
| schestowitz | She told me some hours ago, “the Apple fanboys” | Apr 24 16:08 |
| Balrog | isn’t she an MS shill? | Apr 24 16:09 |
| Balrog | or at least pro-MS? | Apr 24 16:09 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Windows is sinking and you will now see Microsoft pocket everything they can from license agreements with PC manufactures and product trims before abandoning the platform | Apr 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes | Apr 24 16:11 |
| schestowitz | But she’s more approachable | Apr 24 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: old news |
Apr 24 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Some already abandoned it, remember? | Apr 24 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Acer’s CEO said in 2007 that “the entire industry” is disappointed with Vista | Apr 24 16:12 |
| schestowitz | other OEMs ditched Windows (ASUS for example) before Microsoft bribed their way back | Apr 24 16:13 |
| schestowitz | And the losses might have to do with some of the bribes | Apr 24 16:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: true but major manufacturers will eventually see the light once they notice that cross software platform compatibility is easier then ever with the dearth of scripts and JScript becoming more robust then ever. | Apr 24 16:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | not to mention much easier compilers | Apr 24 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Never Download a PPT or TIFF Again With Gmail’s Updated Viewer < http://mashable.com/2009/04/2… > | Apr 24 16:14 |
| Balrog | <http://news.slashdot.org/article…. … Appeals Court Stays RIAA Subpoena Vs. Students | Apr 24 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: well, Java too | Apr 24 16:14 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: read that article | Apr 24 16:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: we will have to see how Oracle can manage to market any new platforms since they exclusively own the rights to distribute the official Java updates | Apr 24 16:15 |
| Balrog | the title is unclear | Apr 24 16:15 |
| Balrog | (the ‘Never Download’ one | Apr 24 16:15 |
| Balrog | ) | Apr 24 16:15 |
| *schestowitz I do | Apr 24 16:15 | |
| *schestowitz tired of MAFIAA | Apr 24 16:16 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: whats your opinion on the survivability of SPARC | Apr 24 16:16 |
| *schestowitz distracted too much by other more corrupt groups | Apr 24 16:16 | |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 amen | Apr 24 16:16 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I wouldn’t call them the lesser of evils | Apr 24 16:16 |
| *schestowitz listens to non-RIAA musc | Apr 24 16:16 | |
| the_mad_hatter | gotta run | Apr 24 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: who knows? Oracle will cut down though | Apr 24 16:17 |
| *the_mad_hatter (n=chatzill@208.101.87.209) has left #boycottnovell | Apr 24 16:17 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: hopefully they will divert more to the OpenSPARC project, so the divestment can go smoothly. Anyway I read that Oracle won’t be totally giving up on SPARC though and continue to fund its development for their high end servers | Apr 24 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Tasers – How they’re really used < http://ralpress.org/2009/04/24/ta… > | Apr 24 16:18 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: it would be nice to have an open source hardware platform | Apr 24 16:19 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: Oracle can make good money selling hw | Apr 24 16:19 |
| schestowitz | But too much competition | Apr 24 16:19 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: only if yo have fabs | Apr 24 16:19 |
| schestowitz | Print some in garage somewhere | Apr 24 16:19 |
| schestowitz | Stallman uses a good chair analogy | Apr 24 16:20 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: good thing is SPARC servers cost less then IBM POWER servers and they can still run with them performance wise when it comes to crunching threaded data | Apr 24 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Like burning a chair | Apr 24 16:20 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: can you image a 1.4Ghz UltraSPARK RK Niagra competing with a 5.7Ghz POWER6 with the fraction of the electric cost, but then again people should know megahertz isn’t everything | Apr 24 16:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: sorry about hijacking your topic for a bit there | Apr 24 16:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: also I don’t get your analogy, you mean fab out chipsets in a garage, you can’t do that with the size they are working at now. | Apr 24 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I was joking | Apr 24 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I often wonder about how the process is doned | Apr 24 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I’m sure Wikipedia has the info and YouTube has nice videos. | Apr 24 16:25 |
| *schestowitz not much of a hardware person. Software Engineer (1st class, Hons) by education… | Apr 24 16:26 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: ask Steve Wozniak | Apr 24 16:26 |
| schestowitz | In the older days people needed to know both well | Apr 24 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Like memory addressing also, hardware limits, etc. | Apr 24 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Not its more abstract | Apr 24 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Java even takes away understanding how how anything beneath the VN/framework works | Apr 24 16:27 |
| schestowitz | A bit like FLash/dreamweaver to Web stds | Apr 24 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Internet graveyard — victims of the second great depression: MySpace and Geocities — separated at birth < http://www.wordyard.com/2009/… > | Apr 24 16:28 |
| schestowitz | What a brilliant site name and picture: http://thelaststrawman.com/ The Last Straw(man) | Apr 24 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Artificial Intelligence Cracks 4,000-Year-Old Mystery < http://blog.wired.com/wiredscien… > | Apr 24 16:30 |
| schestowitz | GeoCities will close later this year. < http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yaho… >. They have some good and important sites there, including some about Microsoft and Linux | Apr 24 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Trial debut for malaria vaccine from mosquito spit < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn… > | Apr 24 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: China could give a huge boost to Linux with its chips: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/… | Apr 24 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Imperial overstretch of the copyright cartel is costing the EU parliament/s (and OBAMAA/Biden) in reputation: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009… | Apr 24 16:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: geez, will they ever actually develop that chip for consumer use or just create new uses and constantly keep it in perpetual development. To me this is resembling less like a cohesive plan and more like a Pentagon style defense contract. | Apr 24 16:35 |
| schestowitz | “Debian developer Robert Millan is offering an alternative kernel for Debian’s Lenny free Linux distro. ” http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/… Heh. I know Robert… | Apr 24 16:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: no shite sherlock, the Obama administration regardless of executive consent is in bead with the MAFIAAs and large Law firms, they were major contributors to his campaign. Flooding the Department of Defense with former RIAA lawyers should have been a clue | Apr 24 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | Apr 24 16:37 |
| schestowitz | I keep posting about it | Apr 24 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Others do all over the place | Apr 24 16:37 |
| schestowitz | I watched an Obama video last night | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | It annoyed me | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | They forcus only on his personal life | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Now, AFAIK, with professional people you’re supposed to AVOID this side | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Not with OBAMA | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | They distract the masses | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Telling stories of wife and kids | Apr 24 16:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: so now the US is stuck with pro-life and business Supreme Court justices left over from the Bush term and the DoD is filled with their lackies. This will be an interesting year for setting or repealing landmark precedents for indivisual rights | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Like Bush and his “cutting brush” tales | Apr 24 16:38 |
| schestowitz | But NOTHING ABOUT HIS POLICIES | Apr 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | The whole interview says nothing professional | Apr 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Just fluff | Apr 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | The Hollywood presidency | Apr 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Oh wait… | Apr 24 16:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well its just like the Kennedy years | Apr 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Schwarzenegger and Reagan | Apr 24 16:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: except now the powers that be hope this cult of personality plays ball with them | Apr 24 16:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: if he doesn’t there is probably some psychotic ex-Iraq or Afghanistan war veteran waiting in the winds to be unleashed | Apr 24 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Hmmm…:-( | Apr 24 16:40 |
| schestowitz | see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Au_… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Au_… | Apr 24 16:40 |
| schestowitz | I watrched this in the morning | Apr 24 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Part of a string of interesting videos | Apr 24 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Former CIAians spilling beans | Apr 24 16:41 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: cool, i will have to watch it later though as I have to get going soon | Apr 24 16:42 |
| *silentivm (n=renan@189.58.199.221.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 24 16:44 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | so what do you think of The New American Century so far? | Apr 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | New? | Apr 24 16:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | lol | Apr 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz | What is the precise period this refers to? | Apr 24 16:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | now | Apr 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz | It’s not very new | Apr 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Like the war on terrorism | Apr 24 16:45 |
| schestowitz | It was merely redeclared this century | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | IIRC it was first declared in the 70s or 80s | Apr 24 16:46 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | I guess its like Winston Churchill said about Fascism when Hitler said it was a New World Order, “It is neither new nor order.” | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | The targets changed slightly, that’s all | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Need for oil | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | The big overthrows began in 1953 with Iran < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKx6yAGjPY >, but there’s lots more in the 19th century even. | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Those old ones I didn’t know about | Apr 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Like Tahiti | Apr 24 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: I recently found old Winston lives for 90 years | Apr 24 16:47 |
| schestowitz | And he was a heavy smoker, so it surprised me a bit | Apr 24 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Bernays lives for more than 100s | Apr 24 16:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: he must have smoked natural tabacco then | Apr 24 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Like an evil dinosaur behind the US propaganda culture… living forever to inflict pain. | Apr 24 16:48 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: don’t you mean Camel | Apr 24 16:49 |
| schestowitz | I think my grandma did em | Apr 24 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Bernays taught women to smoke | Apr 24 16:49 |
| schestowitz | The “torches of freedom” stunt | Apr 24 16:49 |
| schestowitz | So he — in my opinion — assisted the killing of tens of millions of women so far | Apr 24 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Including my grandma who was a heavy smoker | Apr 24 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: be sure to watch some of these videos later. These are no crackpots | Apr 24 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Fox news is afraid of two types: crackpots, people who say the truth too bluntly | Apr 24 16:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and thoughtful soldiers | Apr 24 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Yes, got to SupportTheSoldiers(C) | Apr 24 16:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: did you see how Bill O’Rielly treated that Special Forces officer who dared say that the US was doing torture | Apr 24 16:52 |
| schestowitz | SupportTheSoldiers(C)=keeping them in Iraq{tm} | Apr 24 16:52 |
| schestowitz | SupportTheSoldiers(C) != bringing them home to wife&kids | Apr 24 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: I don’t watch Fox | Apr 24 16:53 |
| schestowitz | But I hate Bill O’Rielly | Apr 24 16:53 |
| schestowitz | He attacks deceny | Apr 24 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Like Bill Maher | Apr 24 16:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: actually now the military is promoting marriage within its ranks | Apr 24 16:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: so then the wife, husband and maybe even kids continue “serving their country” | Apr 24 16:54 |
| schestowitz | I like listening to prof. Chalmers Johnson these days because he’s calm and rational: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=… | Apr 24 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: I see.. | Apr 24 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Well, maybe they can grow soldier familes in Iraw | Apr 24 16:54 |
| schestowitz | They already built swimming pool facilities there, didn’t they? | Apr 24 16:54 |
| schestowitz | They also have a cinema for baseball and stuff. | Apr 24 16:54 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I even talked to a Naval Officer who said the Pentagon was really backing the building of large Super Carriers and putting women in the military as a way to create new Edens of sort in case of any catostrophic outbreak of desease on the mainland | Apr 24 16:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I hope this all backfires in the future when a soldier class realizes they are being exploited without much benefit and rise behind a Julius Caesar like leader | Apr 24 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Well, benefits… | Apr 24 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Give me a break.. | Apr 24 16:57 |
| schestowitz | What are promised benefit when a state goes bankrupt | Apr 24 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Military might is only posturing amid financial pain | Apr 24 16:57 |
| schestowitz | It is no substitute | Apr 24 16:57 |
| schestowitz | The Romans learned this the hard way , but they lasted for longer (centuries) | Apr 24 16:58 |
| schestowitz | I don’t keep my eyes on the FOSS ball much because of distraction due to stuff like MAFIAA and politics, which is getting ugly in line with the economy. It also makes investigation of corruption in tech more timely and intriguing. | Apr 24 16:59 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: true, but all the capital Microsoft works hard in raking won’t amount to much if the economy suffers a total collapses | Apr 24 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes, the customers | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Worldwide even | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | But people still require servicing | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Which is why medical fields are ahrdly affected | Apr 24 17:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: maybe they hope by getting nestled in government contracts M$ will get free protection and laws passed to enforce the exclusive use of their software | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | I ought to have gone more aggressively in the direction of medicine | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | I’m already in medical biophysics | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | But the sites take a lot of my time | Apr 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | People come and read, so it’s addictive | Apr 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: why MS and not another sw company? | Apr 24 17:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: because they already have the market penetration | Apr 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Big Blue used to be the Big Baby of the Feds (and the Nazis). Maybe it still it. FAR FAR bigger than MS, not in terms of markey cap | Apr 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | *ket | Apr 24 17:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: also, the medical field is very much affected by this crisis, at least in the US where equipment and services are loaned more often then actually given | Apr 24 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: like pneumonia has “market penetration” | Apr 24 17:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: also new technologies can’t come about without healthy startups | Apr 24 17:03 |
| schestowitz | They need secure solution | Apr 24 17:03 |
| schestowitz | For cybersecurity | Apr 24 17:03 |
| schestowitz | They can’t standardise on houses of glass | Apr 24 17:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Big Blue became too much of a liability for governments to work with | Apr 24 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: you mean medical R&D? | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Well, I see it here | Apr 24 17:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: yes | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Don’t expect to become a post-doc easily | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | It was bad enough before | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | With people changing career paths and research areas | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | I mostly land on sctivism | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | *activism | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Reserch grants will fall | Apr 24 17:04 |
| schestowitz | No no ‘wanking about’ with research papers for money from the educational budget | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | They say the west has developed a culture of laziness | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | That all the Real Work is done in CHina | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Like 15 hours/day making shoes | Apr 24 17:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: not really, its just western finance is very short cited | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | There’s a work for it | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | “Knowledge workers” | Apr 24 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Meaning: we’re the “smart guys”, the rest take orders | Apr 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: and sighted | Apr 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Also cited | Apr 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz | |
Apr 24 17:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I suppose, we will see how it pans out | Apr 24 17:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | anyway got to be going now | Apr 24 17:06 |
| schestowitz | OK | Apr 24 17:06 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 has quit () | Apr 24 17:06 | |
| schestowitz | One blogger asks: “Is Mono a religion or a technology?” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/24/… | Apr 24 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Balmer FUDs GOogle today in Kohn: http://qik.com/video/1537201 | Apr 24 17:26 |
| schestowitz | He reads his mail without PAs | Apr 24 17:29 |
| schestowitz | The hAl astroturfer is small editing the Wikipedia page for Microsoft, even on ODF http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?t… | Apr 24 17:32 |
| schestowitz | /small/still/ | Apr 24 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Glyn Moody would love this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/… | Apr 24 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Here’s ballmer talk for download: http://qik.com/video/e2e035ee5c… He makes some good points. Anything hairy in there? Else I don’t want to spread it… | Apr 24 18:00 |
| schestowitz | More new PCs come with Linux preinstalled: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/0… | Apr 24 18:12 |
| trmanco | lets have some wine? -> http://winehq.org/announce/1.1.20 | Apr 24 18:22 |
| schestowitz | No thanks. I’m driving back. | Apr 24 18:29 |
| schestowitz | I’ll get wine if I find a driver | Apr 24 18:29 |
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| schestowitz | People drop paper and move to electronic paper. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/… | Apr 24 18:35 |
| trmanco | hehe | Apr 24 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Policing the dark side of the net < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/… > | Apr 24 18:41 |
| schestowitz | BB-She on problems with info. Hypocrites | Apr 24 18:41 |
| schestowitz | They have spread a fair bit of propaganda for ages and got caught for it. | Apr 24 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Enthusiastic reviews of Ubuntu/GNU/Linux 9.04 keep arriving, e.g. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3… http://arstechnica.com/open-source/new… | Apr 24 18:45 |
| schestowitz | “The Big Brother Award – a prize awarded to [...] have “excelled” in the violation of our privacy” http://robertogaloppini.net/2009… | Apr 24 18:48 |
| schestowitz | A good summary of links about the impact of Oracle/Sun: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensour… | Apr 24 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Some companies put “open source” in their PR although they are purely proprietary. Old trick. http://www.codefutures.com/weblog/pre… | Apr 24 18:57 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: it was a big day yesterday: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/… | Apr 24 19:17 |
| Eruaran | hi roy | Apr 24 19:20 |
| Eruaran | I’m reading that article now | Apr 24 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat deceives Brits by equating customers to FOSS affinity: http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/… England is very low. | Apr 24 19:20 |
| schestowitz | *very low in FOSS. | Apr 24 19:21 |
| Eruaran | interesting article | Apr 24 19:26 |
| Eruaran | I’m convinced that in the coming months we can expect to see Microsoft training its guns directly upon Canonical. | Apr 24 19:27 |
| Eruaran | I expect Microsoft will use proxies. | Apr 24 19:27 |
| Eruaran | To try and destroy Canonical. | Apr 24 19:28 |
| Eruaran | They will do or use whatever they can to bring down anything tangible they see as a threat. | Apr 24 19:28 |
| *_air has quit (“Leaving”) | Apr 24 19:28 | |
| Eruaran | Thats my prediction for the moment. | Apr 24 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: in coming months? | Apr 24 19:30 |
| Eruaran | Ubuntu has traction. Microsoft will be wanting to “cut off their air supply”. | Apr 24 19:30 |
| schestowitz | They already do that | Apr 24 19:30 |
| schestowitz | See the Canonical post about MS FUD | Apr 24 19:30 |
| schestowitz | “Microsoft, FUD, and netbooks” | Apr 24 19:30 |
| Eruaran | Thats nothing. | Apr 24 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Or something like that | Apr 24 19:30 |
| Eruaran | I’m expecting more serious moves. | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | I agree that they’ll do it indirectly | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | They do this already with NPD for example | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | But they have morre | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | I am preparing abother post about thus | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | I gathered lots of new data | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | On Microsoft’s messing about inside FOSS | Apr 24 19:31 |
| schestowitz | It’s like a cancel inside FOSS, to use Ballmer’s words | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Eruaran | Canonical is a target. | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: http://kinesismomentum.wordpress.com/… | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Balrog | about MS surface | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Balrog | it’s a good read | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Eruaran | I’d bet money that right now they’ve got people trying to dig up anything they can on Canonical. | Apr 24 19:32 |
| Eruaran | They’ll be floating all options, from Mono licensing to OpenOffice disruption through Novell, to putting pressure on OEM’s/ISV’s, to examining all of Canonicals activities. | Apr 24 19:34 |
| schestowitz | FOSS in US government,. developed using taxpayers’ money (how it should be done): http://govhealthit.com/articles/2009/04/2… | Apr 24 19:35 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: looked at that article? | Apr 24 19:36 |
| Eruaran | They will be looking for the most aggressive things they can do against Canonical’s interests while trying to not bring heat upon Microsoft. | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Surface is dead | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | It can’t be revived | Apr 24 19:36 |
| Balrog | I know it’s dead | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Another Zune.. waste of money | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | It cann’t earn ISVs | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Zune didn’t allow any in, anyway | Apr 24 19:36 |
| Balrog | that article summarizes its ‘usability’ | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: looking now | Apr 24 19:36 |
| Balrog | not that good, actually | Apr 24 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Stupid gates wanted surface | Apr 24 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Bach (the fraudster) told him not to | Apr 24 19:37 |
| schestowitz | He knew it would fail before launcxh | Apr 24 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. “The whole experience was probably best summed up by Amanda who, when asked why it was taking us so long to get the machine up and running, and why we all looked so unhappy, replied “Oh, it’s just so…Microsofty.”” | Apr 24 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: don’t spread it around too much though | Apr 24 19:38 |
| schestowitz | It’s better not to draw any attention to this dead thing | Apr 24 19:38 |
| schestowitz | That only gives it visibility | Apr 24 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Seeing it with the plastic is funny | Apr 24 19:39 |
| schestowitz | A bit like when they bring marble items into a house… or some couch | Apr 24 19:39 |
| schestowitz | That’s why they call it ‘big-arse table’ | Apr 24 19:39 |
| Balrog | OK, I’m not spreading it | Apr 24 19:39 |
| schestowitz | Where is it manufactured anyway and how do they import/distribute this junk? | Apr 24 19:39 |
| Balrog | someone in one irc room mentioned it and I though it might be interesting | Apr 24 19:39 |
| schestowitz | It was another Microsoft attempt to monetise on hw | Apr 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | They envy APple | Apr 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Xbox and Zune failed too | Apr 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | No hw success | Apr 24 19:40 |
| Balrog | heh yes. | Apr 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Except mice, ehich I think is just something Microsoftt BOUGHT, not developed in house. | Apr 24 19:40 |
| Eruaran | Apple = smart implementation of multi touch that brings it to the masses in an affordable and cool way that makes consumers say, “oooh I want one !” | Apr 24 19:40 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft = erm… where do you turn this big ass table on ? | Apr 24 19:41 |
| Balrog | Microsoft mice seem to work OK. althought I had horrible ones. | Apr 24 19:41 |
| Eruaran | I have one | Apr 24 19:41 |
| Eruaran | Its dying | Apr 24 19:41 |
| Eruaran | its only a few months old | Apr 24 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Malaysia’s migration to FOSS is on its way already: http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story… | Apr 24 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: my Logitech mouse broke too | Apr 24 19:41 |
| schestowitz | The unbranded one I have has been fine for 4 YEARS! | Apr 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Logitech — less than a year | Apr 24 19:42 |
| Eruaran | heh | Apr 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Mouse wheel went bad | Apr 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Same with some shoes I have | Apr 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Cheap ones can last 5 years | Apr 24 19:42 |
| Eruaran | I’ve seen some expensive Logitech mice fail | Apr 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Sneakers that is | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Nike — just months | Apr 24 19:43 |
| Eruaran | Mind you, they got replaced under warranty | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | And it happens in both shoes at the same time | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | So you know it’s a design problem | Apr 24 19:43 |
| tessier_ | “aims to enhance cost savings by implementing an open source software system in all 724 agencies under its management in the public sector by early next year.” They are going to migrate thousands of systems in a year? | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | It’s consistent… as though it’s planned obsolescence for shoes. | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | tessier: some have been migrated already | Apr 24 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: so did others | Apr 24 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Like 7 times | Apr 24 19:44 |
| schestowitz | XBox 360 | Apr 24 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, | Apr 24 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Not cheap for the Vole | Apr 24 19:44 |
| schestowitz | $7 billion in loses in XBox bizniz | Apr 24 19:44 |
| Eruaran | I love it when that happens | Apr 24 19:44 |
| Eruaran | let em bleed cash | Apr 24 19:45 |
| schestowitz | They still get sued for it | Apr 24 19:48 |
| schestowitz | MS has been sued dozens of times over XBox, sometimes class action | Apr 24 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Half the staff should be marketing (PR) and lawyers | Apr 24 19:48 |
| Balrog | heh, yeah. | Apr 24 19:52 |
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| amarsh04 | just tried 2.6.30-rc3 on other machine and the “How to enable EXA and Xv” instructions on http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeo… – Radeon 3200 HD now plays video with minmal cpu overhead and free drivers | Apr 24 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Recession Reporter Laid Off… Denied Chance To Publish Final Piece About Getting Laid Off < http://techdirt.com/articles/20… > | Apr 24 20:00 |
| tessier_ | hah | Apr 24 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Typical. | Apr 24 20:01 |
| schestowitz | I think I saw this before | Apr 24 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They even quickly withdrew the story in this case | Apr 24 20:01 |
| Balrog | amarsh04: … foss driver? | Apr 24 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Censorship makes what we know as ‘mainstream media’ | Apr 24 20:01 |
| amarsh04 | reminds me of the old Mad Magazine piece on Sesame Street called “reality street” where the show gets shut down | Apr 24 20:01 |
| amarsh04 | yes Balrog | Apr 24 20:02 |
| Balrog | great. Full 3D …? | Apr 24 20:02 |
| Balrog | that ‘Windows is not engineered for security’ article is still down, right? | Apr 24 20:03 |
| amarsh04 | not full 3d though | Apr 24 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Yup, Broadband Providers Still Hate Muni Competition < http://techdirt.com/articles/2… > That’s why there’s only an illusion (collusion) of competition. | Apr 24 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: InfoWorld article still down | Apr 24 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Was up for over 5 years | Apr 24 20:07 |
| Balrog | they probably pulled it | Apr 24 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Some months after I cited it in lots of place BANG it’s gine | Apr 24 20:08 |
| schestowitz | *gone | Apr 24 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Let me ask the editor why it vanished | Apr 24 20:08 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to him before on some occasions | Apr 24 20:08 |
| Balrog | hmm .. ok. He’s cooperative with you? | Apr 24 20:08 |
| Balrog | i.e. not hostile? | Apr 24 20:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&… | Apr 24 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes | Apr 24 20:09 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 24 20:09 |
| amarsh04 | that’s why Pamela Jones of Groklaw makes archive copies of web pages she uses | Apr 24 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Tgere are other examples of dodging articles | Apr 24 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Ones that damage Microsoft’s reputation | Apr 24 20:10 |
| schestowitz | In IDG. | Apr 24 20:10 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: I have that automated | Apr 24 20:10 |
| schestowitz | “Hi Paul, A couple of months ago I noticed a missing article, which is cite here for example. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?si… The InfoWorld article was there until about 2 months ago (site redesign). Can it be restored?” | Apr 24 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Let’s wait for a reply | Apr 24 20:12 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 24 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Watch the criminalisation of people who point at URLs rather than the infringers: http://techdirt.com/articles/200904… | Apr 24 20:14 |
| Balrog | how can pointing at a url be a crime?!? | Apr 24 20:14 |
| Balrog | it’s just like citing a reference in the footnotes of a research paper | Apr 24 20:15 |
| amarsh04 | good move, schestowitz | Apr 24 20:20 |
| Eruaran | So they’re picking on students who can’t afford to fight them in court | Apr 24 20:21 |
| Eruaran | how big of the mafia | Apr 24 20:21 |
| Balrog | yeah that too  |
Apr 24 20:22 |
| amarsh04 | dropping old stuff from web-sites is very “1984″ | Apr 24 20:22 |
| Eruaran | Just another reason for when I get my site up, my music will be free to download and will never be the “property” of any of these corporate scumbags | Apr 24 20:23 |
| Eruaran | indeed very 1984 | Apr 24 20:23 |
| amarsh04 | I’d love to be able to convince my old uni to keep an archive of details of past concerts that their music school put on | Apr 24 20:23 |
| Eruaran | Ministry of Truth | Apr 24 20:23 |
| schestowitz | I got a response now. | Apr 24 20:23 |
| schestowitz | “I’ve had a few of these since the redesign, where articles easily accessible before now can’t be found. Most of the time, old articles still are there. I think you’re referring to the article linking to “states flat out.” I’ll see what I can do. “ | Apr 24 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I guess one needs to check if other URLs broke too | Apr 24 20:24 |
| amarsh04 | I had a very interesting read when I went to the state library archive looking at the primary school’s music festivals for past years, lots of people involved who went on to become nationally and internationally recognised musicians | Apr 24 20:25 |
| amarsh04 | s/school’s/schools’/ | Apr 24 20:25 |
| amarsh04 | our national broadcaster has been very good with their web archives | Apr 24 20:26 |
| Balrog | I see … | Apr 24 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Oh boy… LinuxToday is trolled again: http://linuxtoday.com/news_sto… So much trolling this week (comments) | Apr 24 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Hear, hear. Why Linux Will Crush Windows 7 on Netbooks < http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Why_Li… > | Apr 24 20:31 |
| Balrog | Eruaran: just be careful so they don’t steal it | Apr 24 20:34 |
| Balrog | use some CC license | Apr 24 20:34 |
| Eruaran | I will | Apr 24 20:35 |
| Balrog | RMS said for artistic stuff CC-Attribution-Non-Commercial is good | Apr 24 20:35 |
| Eruaran | yes | Apr 24 20:35 |
| schestowitz | infoworld editor: “Do you have the article headline, by any chance?” | Apr 24 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Can you help me find it? | Apr 24 20:37 |
| Balrog | web archive | Apr 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | I don’t have it stored anywhere, I think | Apr 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Oh yeah | Apr 24 20:38 |
| Balrog | you have the URL? | Apr 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | http://web.archive.org/web/2008020… | Apr 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | He’ll restore it | Apr 24 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Less 404s from my end |
Apr 24 20:39 |
| Balrog | good. | Apr 24 20:41 |
| schestowitz | “Let me see if we can get this on the new site. This article is several years’ old so maybe they just didn’t link back that far. But I have another article from two months’ ago that also can’t be found. “ | Apr 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Looks innocent, unless there’s mischief among the maintainers of the site. | Apr 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | If it’s a broader issue then I at least help him ‘debug’ a potentially big problem he wasn’t aware if | Apr 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | *of | Apr 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Why it’s a good year for GNU/Linux now that Microsoft’s profit sank by a third: http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/2… | Apr 24 20:48 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: there were other articles several years old that didn’t disappear | Apr 24 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu gets very good reviews today: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/sof… | Apr 24 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, but what proportion of them? | Apr 24 20:52 |
| MinceR | even from micro$oft, apparently | Apr 24 20:52 |
| schestowitz | ANyway, he’s concerned by this, so he didn’t take it down deliberately | Apr 24 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Despite being an MS apologist a lot of the time | Apr 24 20:53 |
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| Balrog | I have no idea. | Apr 24 20:53 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 24 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Drupal should consider a migration to AGPL(v3). Now it’s the right time. https://fossbazaar.org/content/tom… | Apr 24 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Same with WordPress. I’ve tried and they did not dismiss this | Apr 24 20:56 |
| schestowitz | But they have not upgraded yet, either. | Apr 24 20:56 |
| Balrog | the only thing with AGPL is: would I have to make my themes under AGPL as well? | Apr 24 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Cloud computing is ‘security nightmare,’ says Cisco CEO < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology… > What might be his motives here? Does that harm router sales? | Apr 24 20:58 |
| trmanco | Gnote is already being translated | Apr 24 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: not sure. Haven’t thought about it, but I don’t think so | Apr 24 20:58 |
| Balrog | hmm ok. That would be problematic, so try to get info about that | Apr 24 20:59 |
| schestowitz | You can keep your themes/plugins without disclosure | Apr 24 20:59 |
| Balrog | themes, yes | Apr 24 20:59 |
| schestowitz | They don’t get ‘mixed’ with the engine/core anyway | Apr 24 20:59 |
| Balrog | plugins … has been disputed | Apr 24 20:59 |
| schestowitz | plugins are more complex | Apr 24 20:59 |
| Balrog | CiviCRM is a case in point | Apr 24 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Because they go deeper and near the code | Apr 24 20:59 |
| *trmanco has a peak into Gnote’s source code | Apr 24 20:59 | |
| schestowitz | Joomla/Mambo had such issue, the former in particular (disputes/flames) | Apr 24 21:00 |
| Balrog | they claim it doesn’t make Drupal AGPL; Drupal claims CiviCRM does | Apr 24 21:00 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: gnote gets lots oif attention | Apr 24 21:00 |
| schestowitz | It’s wortking | Apr 24 21:00 |
| schestowitz | I told some journalists about it and they covered it | Apr 24 21:00 |
| schestowitz | So it’s like network effect | Apr 24 21:00 |
| Balrog | CiviCRM gets advice from OSF-related sources | Apr 24 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Alan Lord recommends it in the anti-Mono page for Ubuntu 9.04 | Apr 24 21:00 |
| Balrog | url? | Apr 24 21:01 |
| schestowitz | gnote is good because it RAISED awareness about the Mono issue | Apr 24 21:01 |
| schestowitz | People ask,”but why not Tomboy” | Apr 24 21:01 |
| schestowitz | This opens up for a discussion about TomTom and TomBoy and Mono | Apr 24 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: hold on | Apr 24 21:01 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/… | Apr 24 21:01 |
| Balrog | I hope Mono is dropped by 9.10 or 10.04 at the latest | Apr 24 21:02 |
| trmanco | I could offer myself to translate this app into my language | Apr 24 21:03 |
| Balrog | go ahead. | Apr 24 21:04 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: I posted info on blocking mono in gentoo | Apr 24 21:05 |
| schestowitz | I keep seeing people who bring up the Net Applications figures, which are Apple|MS-sponsored. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/… | Apr 24 21:06 |
| Balrog | just add ‘dev-lang/mono’ to /etc/portage/package.mask | Apr 24 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: excellent. | Apr 24 21:06 |
| Balrog | then you’ll get a block when trying to install anything that depends on mono | Apr 24 21:06 |
| schestowitz | It’s not just practical but also educational | Apr 24 21:06 |
| schestowitz | People need to be aware of the ISSUES | Apr 24 21:06 |
| Balrog | now we need mononono for fedora / RHEL / centos | Apr 24 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Seeing a page that instructs for removal of mono leads to learning for the users who don’t follow Linux news (or n00bs) | Apr 24 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Tom Chase maintains it | Apr 24 21:07 |
| schestowitz | I think he’s a Groklawian | Apr 24 21:07 |
| Balrog | yes, but Tom Chase’s thing is Debian/Ubuntu only :/ | Apr 24 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 24 21:07 |
| schestowitz | But the code is there | Apr 24 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Simple ./configure ; make; make install | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Unless it has distro-secific stuff | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Like blocking certain repos | Apr 24 21:08 |
| Balrog | no, it’s distro specific | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | I never looked into it | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva doesn’t have mono | Apr 24 21:08 |
| Balrog | most package managers will just overwrite files like that if they’re not referenced in the package manager | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Though it was gonna install it when I required cetain packages for file indexing on my HDD | Apr 24 21:08 |
| Balrog | …which packages? | Apr 24 21:08 |
| schestowitz | I can’t recall | Apr 24 21:09 |
| schestowitz | It’s in an IRC log somewhere | Apr 24 21:09 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 24 21:09 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/… | Apr 24 21:11 |
| MinceR | i thought beagle was completely monoized from the start | Apr 24 21:11 |
| schestowitz | Seems like manual migration in IDG: “From what I’ve been told, we migrated old content from as far back as ’03 or ’04. The article you referenced was from ’02. Maybe over time they will migrate back further. “ | Apr 24 21:11 |
| MinceR | but we have strigi and tracker | Apr 24 21:11 |
| MinceR | (and who knows what else) | Apr 24 21:11 |
| schestowitz | That’s the latest from him.. | Apr 24 21:12 |
| Balrog | migrating to…what? | Apr 24 21:12 |
| Balrog | ahh mono | Apr 24 21:12 |
| Balrog | “Apple Fires 1,600 Full-time Employees” looks stupid | Apr 24 21:14 |
| Balrog | you don’t /fire/ 1600 employees, you lay them off | Apr 24 21:14 |
| schestowitz | hackintosh: http://jaysonrowe.com/2009/04/23/… | Apr 24 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, it’s longer to write it | Apr 24 21:14 |
| Balrog | firing is usually for bad performance | Apr 24 21:15 |
| Balrog | yes but it gives a bad impression | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | It sure does | Apr 24 21:15 |
| Balrog | there are synonyms to ‘lay off’ | Apr 24 21:15 |
| *Eruaran has quit (“No Ping reply in 90 seconds.”) | Apr 24 21:15 | |
| schestowitz | When yuou fire employees | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | |
Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | What did Apple expect? | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | |
Apr 24 21:15 |
| Balrog | it’s food for the trolls | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Apr 24 21:15 |
| Balrog | or detractors, maybe | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | It’s like being sacked | Apr 24 21:15 |
| schestowitz | “made redundant” is a common phrase here | Apr 24 21:16 |
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| Balrog | retail shops have been losing money in general | Apr 24 21:16 |
| Balrog | not only in the computer field | Apr 24 21:17 |
| Balrog | / technology | Apr 24 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Lookin’ good: Palm Pre spotted in the wild, possibly running YouTube < http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/23/pa… > keyboard, 3d effects.. better than my Palm Tungsten. | Apr 24 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, they have | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Linux hardly has computer shops | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | There are hardware shops. Linux is fetched from the Web. | Apr 24 21:18 |
| Balrog | more people are buying online | Apr 24 21:18 |
| Balrog | (hardware) | Apr 24 21:18 |
| Balrog | not software | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | So Linux is not so dependent on hw sale | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | *sales | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Just subscriptions for the most part | Apr 24 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Is it possible to get a Pre without a phone? | Apr 24 21:19 |
| schestowitz | You know, the one that’s a small computer that does not fry the owner’s brain? | Apr 24 21:19 |
| Balrog | I don’t think so. | Apr 24 21:19 |
| Balrog | though you probably can put it in airplane mode | Apr 24 21:20 |
| schestowitz | My Palm has Bluetooth but it’s short-range and always disabled | Apr 24 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Airplanes allow cellphones now | Apr 24 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Depends where | Apr 24 21:20 |
| MinceR | airplane mode means turning off the phone part | Apr 24 21:20 |
| MinceR | (it’s a stupid name) | Apr 24 21:20 |
| Balrog | yes. | Apr 24 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Heise is indeed just echoing the FUD from the Vole http://www.h-online.com/open/Linux-cache-… | Apr 24 21:21 |
| Balrog | Nintendo is cheating people who did software modifications on their Wii. For a repair that would normally cost ~$75, they’re charging ~$190 if “software hacks” are detected. <http://hackmii.com/2009/04/warranty> | Apr 24 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu and copyright < http://fasmz.org/~pterjan/blo… > | Apr 24 21:23 |
| schestowitz | ” Another Anonymous Coward (2009-04-24 03:07) | Apr 24 21:24 |
| schestowitz | There should be more control in everything Linux. | Apr 24 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Adam Williamson (2009-04-24 05:01) | Apr 24 21:24 |
| schestowitz | well, just don’t look too closely at the .ttf files Mandriva ships in /contrib. =) “ | Apr 24 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | Wow. Even FOSS hater Beranger likes Ubuntu… http://beranger.org/v3/wor… | Apr 24 21:26 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm… weird error in the BN comment section. Something’s not working,. | Apr 24 21:31 |
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| *trmanco peaks into winehq’s website source code | Apr 24 22:59 | |
| trmanco | I can really learn something just passing my eyes through the code | Apr 24 23:00 |
| schestowitz | That’s the way to learn coding | Apr 24 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Says RMS | Apr 24 23:01 |
| schestowitz | And also a thief called billg | Apr 24 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Who stole code from trash can | Apr 24 23:01 |
| schestowitz | And claimed it his own |
Apr 24 23:01 |
| trmanco | hehe | Apr 24 23:02 |
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| *tessier_ should read more code from other people | Apr 24 23:02 | |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: patent troll won case, got $19M from apple | Apr 24 23:28 |
| Balrog | http://www.appleinsider.com/articles… | Apr 24 23:28 |
| Balrog | sued AMD before | Apr 24 23:28 |
| schestowitz | I know | Apr 24 23:28 |
| Balrog | Court of East Texas | Apr 24 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Patent Hawk screws over many companies too ATM | Apr 24 23:29 |
| schestowitz | I was gonna do a post tomorrow | Apr 24 23:29 |
| schestowitz | You live in a deregulated country | Apr 24 23:29 |
| schestowitz | The corrupt survives | Apr 24 23:29 |
| schestowitz | [the rest pays bailout ] |
Apr 24 23:29 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Article bill gates security as a lockin – sounds like what both the British and American governments did following 911, clamp down on security, and to hell with the public. | Apr 24 23:44 |
| tessier_ | The public supported it. | Apr 24 23:48 |
| tessier_ | The public said “to hell with us” and ate up the fear mongering. | Apr 24 23:48 |
| schestowitz | re: bailout: Will be less funny when house price plunge below half their old value and a lot more people lose their life savings | Apr 24 23:52 |
| schestowitz | tessier: did you protest before/around 2003? | Apr 24 23:53 |
| schestowitz | It’s hard for most people to escape and ignore the media | Apr 24 23:53 |
| schestowitz | They are taught to have trust installed in them through the media | Apr 24 23:53 |
| tessier_ | Did I protest what? | Apr 24 23:55 |
| tessier_ | There’s so much worthy of protest. | Apr 24 23:56 |
| schestowitz | tessier: you’ll enjoy this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M… | Apr 24 23:56 |
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