07.31.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 30th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:43 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz	China censors the Olympics, Microsoft puts DRM in it… Internet censorship plagues journalists at Olympics	Jul 30 08:31
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10002… Lovely!	Jul 30 08:31
PetoKraus	ehm, fucktards.	Jul 30 08:36
schestowitz	It’s getting to be the same elsewhere in pseudo-democratic (corpocratic) nations.	Jul 30 08:37
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kentma1	schestowitz: just sent you an email – it’s an obituary to Joe Barr I wrote in cola, but it was quite good, so I thought you might be able to find space for it on your site.	Jul 30 10:05
schestowitz	Just responded seconds ago.	Jul 30 10:15
schestowitz	“That’s an excellent piece. And yes, I’d love to share it. I assume the subject line makes a good title? Do you want attribution?	Jul 30 10:16
kentma1	replied to the email with a yes on both counts	Jul 30 10:34
schestowitz	You know..? I now remember that sort of polite confrontation from Digg…	Jul 30 10:42
kentma1	you mean about debating points?	Jul 30 10:43
schestowitz	I accused Linux.com of running the anti-Linux ads (back then it was very aggressive… “Linux is a RISK!”… you know the gig). Anyway, Joe came to Digg and replied to the comment. He was obviously uncomfortable with the ads and he explained to me that it was the publisher’s fault.	Jul 30 10:43
kentma1	ah, yes, I see what you mean now.	Jul 30 10:44
schestowitz	As you may or may now know, Microsoft gave some dough to SourceForge and those sister sites. That’s why I no longer trust Slashdot, either. The editor were also invited for a Redmond visit. They accepted the invitations.	Jul 30 10:44
kentma1	The bias at slash has changed very significantly over the years. It used to be staunchly centered on “new” stuff, now, we’ll, I don’t really bother with it any more.	Jul 30 10:45
kentma1	This will not end, at least, until MS have run out of cash!	Jul 30 10:45
schestowitz	Well, yeah… Groklaw hardly trusts many news sites, either. There’s a Microsoft money trail (or partners).	Jul 30 10:46
schestowitz	I wrote about it just 2 hours ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/30…	Jul 30 10:46
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schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0…	Jul 30 10:55
schestowitz	Bad news for Microsoft: http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/goo…	Jul 30 11:04
kentma1	ah – that was quick publishign	Jul 30 11:06
schestowitz	Yes, probably will get some attention.I just wasn’t sure if Joe wants to be remembered only as a FUD fighter.	Jul 30 11:06
kentma1	There are plenty of other obits around for him…	Jul 30 11:07
schestowitz	I’ve seen just one.	Jul 30 11:08
kentma1	ah, maybe there’s only one other…	Jul 30 11:08
PetoKraus	nice.	Jul 30 11:08
schestowitz	Well, visible ones anyway	Jul 30 11:08
PetoKraus	that australia, i mean	Jul 30 11:09
schestowitz	It’s Roblimo who cried as he wrote the first one. It made me very sad.	Jul 30 11:09
kentma1	PetoKraus: just for a minute, I though you liked my piece	Jul 30 11:10
PetoKraus	hehe i didn’t read it yet	Jul 30 11:10
schestowitz	PetoKraus: this things are not linear, either. Expect watchers to follow suit (NSW).	Jul 30 11:10
PetoKraus	watchers?	Jul 30 11:11
schestowitz	The Telegraph did it some days ago (bye Outlook, Office and Exchange)	Jul 30 11:11
PetoKraus	anyway, the price difference – 30M compared to 9.5M….	Jul 30 11:11
schestowitz	Watchers as in, say… CIOs that rely on the judgment and experience of peers. Wait-and-/watchers/… that’s why Microsoft keeps that Big Lie about Munich going.	Jul 30 11:12
PetoKraus	i guess i completely missed THAT big lie.	Jul 30 11:13
PetoKraus	(not reading much lately)	Jul 30 11:13
kentma1	One of the most compelling and seductive logical fallacies is the “if someone else has done it, it must be right”. It’s these people that Roy is thinking of, I think – they see that someone else has done it, so feel confident in moving in the same direction with low risk.	Jul 30 11:13
kentma1	The best solution would be to expose the fallacy, but it’s so compelling and seductive that most people cannot even recognise that it /is/ a fallacy.	Jul 30 11:14
PetoKraus	it’s more of a psychology, or, deep human nature (to repeat stuff after others) than… fallacy	Jul 30 11:15
kentma1	ah, you see what I mean. It’s a logical fallacy, and yet, so seductive, that you want to find any excuse to accept it as not being a fallacy…	Jul 30 11:16
schestowitz	PetoKraus: there are seevral exceptionally-successfuly multi-thousand-workstation migrations to GNU/Linux (usually SUSE) in Germany, but Microsoft et al try to tell a story about disasters.	Jul 30 11:17
PetoKraus	Suse though.	Jul 30 11:17
kentma1	I’m not sure that Munich is even a disaster – it was just a big job.	Jul 30 11:17
schestowitz	Two black sheep make one black sheep feel comfort. There’s also less liability (“he did it too”)	Jul 30 11:17
schestowitz	Munich has a Debian derivative.	Jul 30 11:18
schestowitz	It’s the porting of software they use (hundreds of things) to GNU/Linux that took time.	Jul 30 11:18
PetoKraus	ehm, have a link what happened?	Jul 30 11:19
PetoKraus	google returned only 2 years old article	Jul 30 11:19
kentma1	If you look at more extreme cases, the fallacy becomes clear. If my neighbour buys a cello and a range rover, does that mean I should buy the same?	Jul 30 11:19
PetoKraus	it depends what you want to do	Jul 30 11:19
schestowitz	LOL	Jul 30 11:20
kentma1	It’s essential to consider your own needs in every decision, the fact that my neighbour is a talented cellist and I’m not clearly weighs heavily. When people come to complex technical decisions, though, they find it harder to weigh the facts and are more inclined to see what someone else did. It’s seductive.	Jul 30 11:20
PetoKraus	if you wanna get a jeep, get a rover	Jul 30 11:21
kentma1	PetoKraus: ah, I already happen to have a landrover 110	Jul 30 11:21
PetoKraus	d’oh	Jul 30 11:21
schestowitz	In this economy (gas price)? Get a mortgage for gas, too.	Jul 30 11:21
PetoKraus	i am gonna get me Lada Niva	Jul 30 11:21
kentma1	I recently traded in a discovery – I’m wondering if it were the right decision, though – I could run the disco on 50:50 diesel & sainsbury cooking oil.	Jul 30 11:22
PetoKraus	and change it from gasoline to gas.	Jul 30 11:22
PetoKraus		Jul 30 11:22
kentma1	didn’t affect the performance much	Jul 30 11:22
kentma1	the defender 110 engine needs modifications to burn oil, though. If the price keeps rising, I might see if I can get them done, though.	Jul 30 11:23
PetoKraus	hehe	Jul 30 11:23
PetoKraus	i use public transport and not even consider getting license soon.	Jul 30 11:23
kentma1	cooking oil, I mean. Diesel is oil, of course	Jul 30 11:23
PetoKraus	yes, i know	Jul 30 11:23
PetoKraus	sainsbury can’t sell diesel as cooking oil. i hope.	Jul 30 11:24
*schestowitz trying to find an article from The Register		Jul 30 11:24
kentma1	I mostly travel for work by public transport, but there are some things which just don’t work that way.	Jul 30 11:24
kentma1	PetoKraus: hehe – some of it tastes so bad, I wonder	Jul 30 11:24
PetoKraus	you know, i shop at sommerfield mostly (when in the UK)	Jul 30 11:24
schestowitz	Haha. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07…	Jul 30 11:24
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/2… “Stop giving the Terrrrrrrissssttsssss more ideas!”	Jul 30 11:25
kentma1		Jul 30 11:25
schestowitz	Xtreeeme recycling.	Jul 30 11:26
kentma1	This is why I was using the oil /before/ i’d cooked with it – just mixing it with the diesel was okay	Jul 30 11:26
PetoKraus	hmm	Jul 30 11:26
schestowitz	If the price of oil goes back on the upside, people might start thinking of ‘sacrificing’ their children (and maybe not in the orphanage sense).	Jul 30 11:26
PetoKraus	haha	Jul 30 11:27
kentma1	schestowitz: uk!	Jul 30 11:27
schestowitz	What about it?	Jul 30 11:27
kentma1	sacrificing my kids?	Jul 30 11:27
PetoKraus	Once the boys in blue realise that chip fat can be a weapon of terr’r, they’ll pounce on anyone with a dodgy accent found loitering near deep fat friers. ie the scotch.	Jul 30 11:27
PetoKraus	haah! this is good	Jul 30 11:27
schestowitz	BTW, I’ve just taken a look at Webalizer (first time in a month). The traffic in BN.com has increased consistency every single month over the past 12 months. It’s at an average of 15,500 pageviews per day now. Scary.	Jul 30 11:27
kentma1	I don’t have an altar with channels in for such activities	Jul 30 11:28
schestowitz	The other thing about poor economies is corporate misery, which leads to bad stuff.	Jul 30 11:28
kentma1	wow – that’s some hit rate.	Jul 30 11:29
schestowitz	Watch Microsoft vs Yahoo’s board, Novell selling out, Apache… well, taking some dough. If the economy is bad, people will ‘prostitute’ themselves and the rich ones can capitalise some more. (RIAA included)	Jul 30 11:29
schestowitz	GL probably has about 10 times that number, but mathfox turned logging off so that the AMD server can cope.	Jul 30 11:30
PetoKraus	ha, they’re hacking splashtop	Jul 30 11:31
PetoKraus	great	Jul 30 11:31
schestowitz	Yes.	Jul 30 11:31
schestowitz	I kept quiet about it.	Jul 30 11:31
schestowitz	Script boyz will be script boyz	Jul 30 11:32
PetoKraus	i just don’t get why did they make it proprietary	Jul 30 11:32
PetoKraus	it’s like…. pointless.	Jul 30 11:32
schestowitz	Parts of it were open.	Jul 30 11:32
schestowitz	It was on ZDNet… David, IIRC.	Jul 30 11:32
schestowitz	Found it: http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog…	Jul 30 11:32
kentma1	interesting… one wonders why Asus didn’t go for something 100% open.	Jul 30 11:34
PetoKraus	well, who knows. Asus is weird. They are having great ideas but they mess up the nuances	Jul 30 11:35
PetoKraus	(Xandros. Splashtop)	Jul 30 11:35
schestowitz	Xandros won’t last for long	Jul 30 11:36
schestowitz	Canonical take a p00per on a lot of the desktop players, Mandriva included. It has hype going for it given that’s it’s a decent product with quality _on par_ with many.	Jul 30 11:36
PetoKraus	well	Jul 30 11:41
PetoKraus	i installed ubuntu few days ago	Jul 30 11:41
PetoKraus	there’s only one thing missing…	Jul 30 11:41
PetoKraus	cinelerra. Other than that, i’d recommend it to everyone, except hard-core guys (gentoo ftw there)	Jul 30 11:41
schestowitz	I’ve had Ubuntu running on some boxes over the years, but SUSE and Mandriva give it a run for the money.	Jul 30 11:42
schestowitz	BTW: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-To-Ins…	Jul 30 11:43
PetoKraus	hehe. anyway, the thing i don’t like is mono-infection in ubuntu.	Jul 30 11:43
schestowitz	They named it after Uwe Thiem, which is nice. http://dot.kde.org/1217341401/	Jul 30 11:44
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02… Mark: “At this stage we see no significant issues with patents and Mono.”	Jul 30 11:45
PetoKraus	well yes, i know.	Jul 30 11:52
PetoKraus	anyway, there’s been nice long discussion on E’s mailinglist about license for whole EFL	Jul 30 11:53
schestowitz	” E’s mailinglist”?	Jul 30 11:54
PetoKraus	enlightenment	Jul 30 11:54
schestowitz	Oh, that E. E17	Jul 30 11:56
schestowitz	Isn’t it maintained by just one Belgian guy who publishes ELive?	Jul 30 11:56
PetoKraus	haha, no, not really	Jul 30 11:56
PetoKraus	elive is a distribution of debian + enlightenment	Jul 30 11:56
PetoKraus	that belgian guy has not much to do with E development	Jul 30 11:57
PetoKraus	http://exchange.enlightenment.org	Jul 30 11:57
PetoKraus	they did a new page lately, cool api… though the release date is still in far future	Jul 30 11:58
schestowitz	Wasn’t there a SF.net page? Which reminds me of how appalling it is that Slashdot is now by association sponsored by Microsoft. There’s a reader exodus and no developer exodus, yet.	Jul 30 11:58
PetoKraus	i doubt it’ll ever be released	Jul 30 11:59
schestowitz	Isn’t it always “in development”?	Jul 30 12:00
PetoKraus	well, almost looks like.	Jul 30 12:01
schestowitz	Re SF.net, it’s good to have Google hosting around cause it’ll never accept Microsoft money. I have a project on SF.net, but Microsoft will ruins things. it serves them well if they ruin these site and dissipate participants with junk posts, Microsoft ads, anti-Linux trolling, etc. They did this with SF.net when they picked anti-FOSS awards (likely to get used, get users sued).	Jul 30 12:01
PetoKraus	but it’s perfectly stable.	Jul 30 12:01
schestowitz	Yes, so I hear.	Jul 30 12:02
schestowitz	When I say SF.net I refer to ‘child’ sites too, i.e. IT Manager Journal, Newsforge, linux.com, Slashdot…	Jul 30 12:02
schestowitz	And now they ruin Datamation (Jupitermedia) too, which had me lose interest in publishing there ever aqain. Brian Profffitt left them recently to do LDN and he hated the Microsoft ads too. They suddnly came in massive numbers as soon as he left LT and Carla took over.	Jul 30 12:04
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kentma1	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07…	Jul 30 13:31
kentma1	mccreevy is determined to create himself a long-term job here.	Jul 30 13:32
*schestowitz looks		Jul 30 13:33
schestowitz	Uh oh!!	Jul 30 13:33
schestowitz	That’s the ‘Community’ patent back door, I think. I’ll read on.	Jul 30 13:33
schestowitz	It’s the Microsoft-funded scum (ACT, among others) which pushes for this. They try to poison and pollute the system with monopolies and choke anything that’s peer-produced or shared.	Jul 30 13:35
kentma1	the garbage about “subsidised” patent claims is particularly revolting.	Jul 30 13:35
kentma1	It’s just trying to drag everyone into the system so that they can be squeezed. Mccreevy deserves investigation – he really does seem to be on someone’s payroll in some way, or he’s just exceptionally gullible.	Jul 30 13:36
kentma1	http://www.reghardware.co.uk/…	Jul 30 13:36
kentma1	ps3 is doing well, although sony as a whole are not.	Jul 30 13:37
kentma1	One suspects a combination of chinese competition and a recession.	Jul 30 13:37
schestowitz	Yes, McCreevy is like Santa Clauf to the IP monopolies.	Jul 30 13:38
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schestowitz	http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/07/paten…	Jul 30 15:44
schestowitz	http://www.prweb.com/release…	Jul 30 15:44
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schestowitz	Microsoft appears to be moving off Windows (though Mary Jo Foley begs to dffer). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/30…	Jul 30 16:09
shyam_k	microkernel-based OS? so next is 236 patent cases against hurd?	Jul 30 16:11
shyam_k	they should do it that way..	Jul 30 16:12
schestowitz	How is Hurd coming along anyway? I occasionally read about it. Microsoft has Xenis.	Jul 30 16:13
schestowitz	*Xenix.	Jul 30 16:13
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SeveredCross	Quiet here.	Jul 30 18:04
schestowitz	Yes. Feel free to bring up a topic or idea.	Jul 30 18:05
SeveredCross	Nah, just wanna listen in.	Jul 30 18:06
schestowitz	The chats are bursty (fashion-wise). it’s idle most of the time, but sometimes there’s a more engaging conversation.	Jul 30 18:07
SeveredCross	I happened upon the website, and while I can’t say I agree with your points, I figured I’d listen in on the conversation some.	Jul 30 18:11
schestowitz	One thing worth writing about tomorrow is probably the marketing (almost half a billion spent on brainwash at the moment). It’s a turning point. The compatibility argument changes a wee bit if you consider the recession and the fact that not many people will buy compatible hardware for that ‘new’ OS (not Mojave).	Jul 30 18:12
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schestowitz	I’m trying to get sorted out a Web-based access to the IRc channel.	Jul 30 21:08
schestowitz	Does anyone know mibbit?	Jul 30 21:08
SeveredCross	Yes, but not very well.	Jul 30 21:10
schestowitz	It works fine with mibbit servers, but now with Freenode.	Jul 30 21:10
schestowitz	Okay, I’ve just cracked the first barrier…	Jul 30 21:14
schestowitz	I think I know what’s blocking it.	Jul 30 21:32
>chanserv<unban !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com*		Jul 30 21:37
-ChanServ-Channel !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com* is not registered.		Jul 30 21:37
#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com ChanServ!ChanServ@services.		Jul 30 21:40
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:40
#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com ChanServ!ChanServ@services.		Jul 30 21:41
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:41
#boycottnovell Banlist: Sat Jun 21 06:14:11 !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com ChanServ!ChanServ@services.		Jul 30 21:42
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:42
schestowitz removes ban on !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com		Jul 30 21:44
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:44
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ChanServ sets ban on !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com		Jul 30 21:45
*ChanServ has kicked mib_1vkv0v from #boycottnovell (Banned: Get a real IRC client)		Jul 30 21:45
schestowitz	Hmmm… that didn’t work.	Jul 30 21:46
#boycottnovell Banlist: Wed Jul 30 20:46:46 !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com ChanServ!ChanServ@services.		Jul 30 21:46
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:46
SeveredCross	Uhm the reason it’s getting banned is not the channel, it’s freenode.	Jul 30 21:46
schestowitz removes ban on !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com		Jul 30 21:46
schestowitz	Oh.	Jul 30 21:46
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:46
SeveredCross	Freenode has some strange strict rules about banning clients like Mibbit, etc.	Jul 30 21:46
SeveredCross	Try to use CGI::IRC, it might not be banned.	Jul 30 21:47
schestowitz	But it worked before [H]omer set up this rule.	Jul 30 21:47
schestowitz	He banned it cause trolls came from there.	Jul 30 21:47
schestowitz	I’m sure it worked fine before. See http://boycottnovell.com/index…	Jul 30 21:48
schestowitz	What’s more, I saw other sites linking to freenode from mibbit. I’ll try again.	Jul 30 21:49
SeveredCross	Hmm.	Jul 30 21:50
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ChanServ sets ban on !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com		Jul 30 21:50
*ChanServ has kicked mib_q19bm4 from #boycottnovell (Banned: Get a real IRC client)		Jul 30 21:50
moparx	check your channel settings. it is set for auto kick/ban for that host	Jul 30 21:50
schestowitz	No luck.	Jul 30 21:51
schestowitz	Oh.	Jul 30 21:51
schestowitz	Do banning and kicking work separately?	Jul 30 21:51
schestowitz	I was simply blocked when it was on ban.	Jul 30 21:51
#boycottnovell Banlist: Wed Jul 30 20:52:06 !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com ChanServ!ChanServ@services.		Jul 30 21:51
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:51
schestowitz	It’s strange. I remove the rule (ban) [H]omer set up, but it comes back when mibbit connects.	Jul 30 21:52
schestowitz removes ban on !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com		Jul 30 21:53
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:53
moparx	it shouldn’t come back if you remove the akick. removing just from the channel ban list wont do anything	Jul 30 21:53
schestowitz	akick?	Jul 30 21:53
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moparx	type this: /msg chanserv akick #boycottnovell list	Jul 30 21:54
>chanserv<akick #boycottnovell list		Jul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-AKICK list for #boycottnovell:		Jul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-1: !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com* Get a real IRC client [modified: 5 weeks, 4 days, 14:51:52 ago]		Jul 30 21:54
-ChanServ-Total of 1 entry in #boycottnovell’s AKICK list.		Jul 30 21:54
schestowitz	Oh, I see.	Jul 30 21:54
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:54
schestowitz	How do I clear the kick?	Jul 30 21:54
moparx	use del	Jul 30 21:55
>chanserv<akick #boycottnovell del !@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com*		Jul 30 21:55
-ChanServ-!@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com* has been removed from the AKICK list for #boycottnovell.		Jul 30 21:55
moparx	‘/msg chanserv akick #boycottnovell del blahblahblah’	Jul 30 21:55
*#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List		Jul 30 21:55
schestowitz	OK. I’ll test it now.	Jul 30 21:55
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mib_m8odp7	Hello world.	Jul 30 21:58
schestowitz	Wow, that’s quite some lag. Like 10 seconds.	Jul 30 21:58
mib_m8odp7	Hello world.	Jul 30 21:58
schestowitz	better than nothing, I guess.	Jul 30 21:58
schestowitz	I’ll modify the site now. Thanks a milion, moparx and SeveredCross.	Jul 30 21:59
schestowitz	*million	Jul 30 21:59
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moparx	No Problem	Jul 30 22:00
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