04.17.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 16th, 2009 – Part 3
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | Familiar VIsta7, but this one works: http://www.clububuntu.com/2009/04/10-… | Apr 16 18:17 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Recession? What recession? System76: Ubuntu PC Maker’s Revenue Up 61 Percent < http://www.workswithu.com/2009/04/15/… > | Apr 16 18:19 |
| balzac | I’ve been recommending people buy the Dell mini with Ubuntu preinstalled | Apr 16 18:20 |
| schestowitz | richard dale (the mono hooks guy): http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3936 | Apr 16 18:20 |
| balzac | People who are technically proficient, to them I recommend the asus eee | Apr 16 18:21 |
| schestowitz | “Running KDE4 with KWin/Plasma compositing effects on the HP 2133 mini-note” | Apr 16 18:21 |
| balzac | Some teenage girl on the subway asked me all about my computer | Apr 16 18:21 |
| balzac | I recommended the dell mini with ubuntu for her | Apr 16 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Did you tip her a fiver? | Apr 16 18:21 |
| balzac | *teenage* | Apr 16 18:21 |
| schestowitz | 19? | Apr 16 18:21 |
| balzac | *subway* | Apr 16 18:21 |
| schestowitz | I kid | Apr 16 18:22 |
| balzac | I got some dirty looks though, from some jealous dudes | Apr 16 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs | Apr 16 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 16 18:22 |
| balzac | But I wasn’t going to deny her my expertise just because she was some hot jail-bait | Apr 16 18:22 |
| balzac | meanwhile, I’m banned by the IRC Mall Cops in #ubuntu-ops | Apr 16 18:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: posted here earlier | Apr 16 18:23 |
| schestowitz | “I’m poor, but I’m not retarded” | Apr 16 18:23 |
| schestowitz | He should have gotten Linux | Apr 16 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 16 18:23 |
| amarsh04 | is Richard Dale from .au schestowitz? | Apr 16 18:25 |
| balzac | yep, the hot girls can’t get enough of my ubuntu | Apr 16 18:28 |
| balzac | hot bartender – I hooked her up, ubuntu on her eee | Apr 16 18:28 |
| balzac | random teen on subway – her too | Apr 16 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | meh, if it comes to OS X or Windows, they’re both about the same to me | Apr 16 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | just that I don’t have to buy a preassembled PC for 500% markup to get Windows  |
Apr 16 18:29 |
| schestowitz | atang is ccrazzzy.. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/35788 | Apr 16 18:30 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: might be | Apr 16 18:30 |
| amarsh04 | if he is, he’d used to be active in Fidonet and running turbo pascal | Apr 16 18:31 |
| schestowitz | I think he utahian[sic] | Apr 16 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Utahn? | Apr 16 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Not that it matters | Apr 16 18:35 |
| amarsh04 | from Utah (-: | Apr 16 18:35 |
| Balrog | DaemonFC: 500% markup is what MS wants you to believe |
Apr 16 18:35 |
| schestowitz | I’m just watching closely to see if Novell employee (paid by Microsoft) sneak Mono into KDE. | Apr 16 18:36 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Ext3 ‘data=guarded’ mode coming for Linux kernel 2.6.30? < http://rajeeshknambiar.wordpress.com/20… > | Apr 16 18:38 |
| schestowitz | “In the light of recent “Ext3 fsync” problem related discussions happened in the Linux Kernel mailing list involving many experts in the field, there has been quite a few improvements.” | Apr 16 18:38 |
| Balrog | Utah (-: | Apr 16 18:40 |
| Balrog | 13:51 < Balrog> DaemonFC: 500% markup is what MS wants you to believe |
Apr 16 18:40 |
| Balrog | 13:51 <@schestowitz> I’m just watching closely to see if Novell employee (paid by Microsoft) sneak Mono into KDE. | Apr 16 18:40 |
| Balrog | 13:53 <@schestowitz> DaemonFC: Ext3 ‘data=guarded’ mode coming for Linux kernel 2.6.30? < http://rajeeshknambiar.wordpress.com/200… > | Apr 16 18:40 |
| Balrog | hrm sorry about that | Apr 16 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Why do Linux games cost what they cost? < http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/04/11… > | Apr 16 18:42 |
| schestowitz | balzac once flooded by accident | Apr 16 18:42 |
| Balrog | I see. | Apr 16 18:44 |
| schestowitz | bergy on ballnux: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpr… | Apr 16 18:51 |
| schestowitz | CMus Review – A Great ncurses Music Player < http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/04/c… > GUI, who needs it? It’s got almost everything. | Apr 16 18:53 |
| schestowitz | “The New York Times recently reported that Canonical’s annual revenue was about $30 million.” That’s new to me. | Apr 16 18:56 |
| Balrog | …? | Apr 16 18:56 |
| balzac | good news | Apr 16 18:57 |
| Balrog | the value, or NYT reporting it | Apr 16 18:59 |
| Balrog | ? | Apr 16 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Hmmm…  http://www.jocuri-gratis.us/irc-boycott… |
Apr 16 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: as I understand it, they still operate at a loss | Apr 16 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Try to estimate expenses | Apr 16 19:02 |
| schestowitz | About 200 employees, free CDs, office space.. | Apr 16 19:02 |
| balzac | I thought they finally made a profit | Apr 16 19:02 |
| schestowitz | this guy like to BN, but it’s in Spanish: http://www.fayerwayer.com/2009/04/microso… | Apr 16 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Seems like some popular Spanish-speaking site | Apr 16 19:04 |
| Balrog | I see. Though that hopefully will change  |
Apr 16 19:04 |
| balzac | why do “linux” games cost what they cost? | Apr 16 19:04 |
| balzac | because they’re non-free? | Apr 16 19:05 |
| schestowitz | With 100,000+ French policemen on Ubuntu now, Canonical will have some more business in their hands | Apr 16 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | Balrog: I’m sure I can build a PC to the same or better specs than the same Mac for several times less | Apr 16 19:05 |
| schestowitz | balzac: Yes, but read the post | Apr 16 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | even if I don’t look for the rock bottom deal on everything | Apr 16 19:05 |
| schestowitz | It’s a comparison there | Apr 16 19:05 |
| schestowitz | it’s also in http://blogografia.com/microsoft-respon… | Apr 16 19:06 |
| schestowitz | If only the article was in English we could reference their analysis | Apr 16 19:07 |
| Balrog | DaemonFC: then you’re on your own when it comes to support | Apr 16 19:08 |
| Balrog | also it may not be very much related, but I’ve seen many broken HP systems lately | Apr 16 19:09 |
| Balrog | and not only HP, but other cheap windows-based systems | Apr 16 19:09 |
| Balrog | and can you build a laptop? | Apr 16 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | So the difference in Support is? | Apr 16 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | Name one PC maker that stands behind what they sell | Apr 16 19:10 |
| Balrog | build yourself and you’re on your own | Apr 16 19:10 |
| Balrog | not only support but quality as well, I meant | Apr 16 19:11 |
| Balrog | non-geeks don’t want to fix their machines | Apr 16 19:11 |
| schestowitz | You could build a laptop | Apr 16 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Not a very well integrated one |
Apr 16 19:12 |
| Balrog | true. | Apr 16 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Factory components can’t be ordered off the shelf, either | Apr 16 19:12 |
| schestowitz | I once fixed my Compaq laptop | Apr 16 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Went to RC electronics | Apr 16 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Compaq wanted to change the whole monitor | Apr 16 19:13 |
| schestowitz | $500 | Apr 16 19:13 |
| schestowitz | I just bought some component and fixed the source of the issue | Apr 16 19:13 |
| Balrog | of course. | Apr 16 19:14 |
| schestowitz | it reminded me of Windows | Apr 16 19:14 |
| schestowitz | What to do when it breaks? | Apr 16 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Restart. | Apr 16 19:14 |
| schestowitz | If Windows misbehaves or gets infected, what to do..? | Apr 16 19:14 |
| Balrog | erase it + start over | Apr 16 19:15 |
| Balrog | that’s what to do | Apr 16 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Install Windiws. Same with the car industry and garages | Apr 16 19:15 |
| schestowitz | You always need ‘replacement’ | Apr 16 19:15 |
| Balrog | very time consuming and inconvenient | Apr 16 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Esp. in Windows | Apr 16 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Unless you ghost it | Apr 16 19:16 |
| schestowitz | *Ghust{TM} it | Apr 16 19:16 |
| schestowitz | They don’t like misuse of their name | Apr 16 19:16 |
| Balrog | imaging doesn’t preserve new data | Apr 16 19:16 |
| schestowitz | You can set that aside | Apr 16 19:16 |
| Balrog | heh … their software has fallen behind lately | Apr 16 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Like put it on external | Apr 16 19:16 |
| Balrog | true… | Apr 16 19:16 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: you’re ever stuck using windows? | Apr 16 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Nope. | Apr 16 19:17 |
| *SteveBallmer` (n=Ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 16 19:17 | |
| Balrog | that’s good … many people are |
Apr 16 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Ryan Fester all the way from Indiana |
Apr 16 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I needed to use proprietary s/w though | Apr 16 19:18 |
| Balrog | you mean matlab or other stuff? | Apr 16 19:18 |
| Balrog | you said matlab is not that bad | Apr 16 19:18 |
| SteveBallmer` | Fester? | Apr 16 19:18 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Apr 16 19:19 | |
| *SteveBallmer` is now known as DeamonFC | Apr 16 19:19 | |
| schestowitz | I was joking, st | Apr 16 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Uncle Fester | Apr 16 19:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/… | Apr 16 19:20 |
| schestowitz | “On the contrary, Mark, we’d have said describing Steve as looking like Uncle Fester was true, and quite possibly in the public interest. But you decide – take a look at Steve Ballmer’s homepage and see what you think. “ | Apr 16 19:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.addamsfamily.com/adda… | Apr 16 19:21 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I have skype installed cause of friends, too | Apr 16 19:21 |
| Balrog | I see. I dislike Skype, but friends use it |
Apr 16 19:24 |
| Balrog | it uses an annoying form of executable encryption | Apr 16 19:24 |
| trmanco | Ekiga is cool | Apr 16 19:24 |
| Balrog | (and on the iphone, seems to be doing that specifically to get around Apple’s API restrictions) | Apr 16 19:25 |
| Balrog | Skype for iphone is using private API | Apr 16 19:25 |
| Balrog | ekiga is a SIP client? | Apr 16 19:26 |
| trmanco | yeah, it uses that protocol | Apr 16 19:32 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 16 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Where does Skype stand on SIP? | Apr 16 19:36 |
| schestowitz | I ask because I’m not too familiar | Apr 16 19:36 |
| schestowitz | That is to say, for voice alone, is there another access route to Skype users? | Apr 16 19:36 |
| schestowitz | I abstained Skype for like 3 years (at least) despite requests from peers | Apr 16 19:37 |
| Balrog | there may be Skype gateways | Apr 16 19:37 |
| Balrog | can’t you run Skype in a VM? | Apr 16 19:37 |
| schestowitz | What would be the point? | Apr 16 19:38 |
| Balrog | if you don’t trust their code, that would help | Apr 16 19:39 |
| Balrog | of course, you’d still want to treat skype convos as insecure | Apr 16 19:39 |
| Balrog | just like email | Apr 16 19:39 |
| schestowitz | The news speaks about rise in SPAM due to MSConficker | Apr 16 19:48 |
| schestowitz | And my box is getting filled with lots of pesky spam I never get much of anymore | Apr 16 19:48 |
| schestowitz | could be related. It’s a matter of statistics really. | Apr 16 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: in China only (confessed Skype) they let the government read Skype IM | Apr 16 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It’s more simple to scan/parse too | Apr 16 19:49 |
| Balrog | yes I know. | Apr 16 19:49 |
| schestowitz | “Is there a list anywhere of ex-MS employees, and/or partners, that now have government positions (in governments around the world, not just USA? “ | Apr 16 19:49 |
| Balrog | email is totally insecure. I wouldn’t treat skype any better | Apr 16 19:49 |
| Balrog | (well, email without encryption) | Apr 16 19:50 |
| schestowitz | I think we must create such a list, but I lack the time at the moment. Later this year it’s very doable. Wiki is suitable for such things because they change over time. | Apr 16 19:50 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: videos are up, can I pm URL’s? | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I encrypt my important mail | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Videos? | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Apr 16 19:51 |
| Balrog | Stallman | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | RMS? | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I can embed in BN for streaming | Apr 16 19:51 |
| schestowitz | And spread in microblogging | Apr 16 19:52 |
| Balrog | ok. | Apr 16 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Sent to FSF | Apr 16 19:54 |
| schestowitz | and others | Apr 16 19:54 |
| schestowitz | is it cmu or temple? | Apr 16 19:56 |
| schestowitz | venue | Apr 16 19:56 |
| schestowitz | schmidt will speak at cmu graduation ceremony soon btw | Apr 16 19:56 |
| schestowitz | he’s a former noveller, not just google ceo | Apr 16 19:56 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… | Apr 16 20:02 |
| schestowitz | I just typed Pittsburgh | Apr 16 20:02 |
| schestowitz | @Mark_Antony: I hear there are penguins in Antarctica |
Apr 16 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Reply to someone pulling my leg about it…. never mind. | Apr 16 20:03 |
| Algyz | hopefully in antarctica they are not using windows |
Apr 16 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Their parents might | Apr 16 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Minus’ | Apr 16 20:03 |
| schestowitz | *Linus’ | Apr 16 20:04 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: Philadelphia | Apr 16 20:04 |
| Balrog | fix it now | Apr 16 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Apr 16 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Fixed | Apr 16 20:05 |
| MinceR | lol @ “Minus” | Apr 16 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I know | Apr 16 20:05 |
| Balrog | not fixed in the title | Apr 16 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Not even a typo related to tap disatcne | Apr 16 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Two keys away in QWERTY | Apr 16 20:05 |
| Balrog | ?? | Apr 16 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Maybe cache | Apr 16 20:06 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: doesn’t appear fixed to me | Apr 16 20:06 |
| Balrog | yes. Can you clear that if you have wordpress cache running? | Apr 16 20:06 |
| Balrog | ok, fixed | Apr 16 20:07 |
| Balrog | thanks | Apr 16 20:07 |
| schestowitz | No problem | Apr 16 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Not intentional either | Apr 16 20:09 |
| schestowitz | the PAs confuse me | Apr 16 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Too many of them | Apr 16 20:09 |
| Balrog | hopefully my server won’t get killed |
Apr 16 20:10 |
| Balrog | yes, lol | Apr 16 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Not many people download Oggs. | Apr 16 20:11 |
| Balrog | I know :/ | Apr 16 20:12 |
| Balrog | though FF 3.1 / FF 3.5 will change that | Apr 16 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I will then drop the Flash versions | Apr 16 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Almost 70% of BN readers use FF | Apr 16 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Mostly 3.0.x | Apr 16 20:12 |
| Balrog | I see. | Apr 16 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Remember this? http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/11/co… | Apr 16 20:16 |
| Balrog | I just hope FF does ogg right. | Apr 16 20:18 |
| Balrog | let me test it. | Apr 16 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s results are out at the end of the month. They’ll cook the books but admit that $4 Windows XP kills em. | Apr 16 20:18 |
| Balrog | heh yeah they will | Apr 16 20:18 |
| schestowitz | They must admit the issue | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Investors would sue otherwise | Apr 16 20:19 |
| *amd-linux (i=584302de@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b72b6bf511dbc391) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 16 20:19 | |
| schestowitz | They already may sue anyway. Some of them mailed me. | Apr 16 20:19 |
| Balrog | you mean Linux people may sue? or MS? | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | They found BN eye opening because of the articles it cites | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Sue MS. | Apr 16 20:19 |
| Balrog | I see. | Apr 16 20:19 |
| Balrog | who sue MS? | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | If it lies to investors | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Same with Dell | Apr 16 20:19 |
| Balrog | ahh that. | Apr 16 20:19 |
| schestowitz | When it accepted $1bn/annum bribes from Intel | Apr 16 20:20 |
| Balrog | I see…. | Apr 16 20:20 |
| schestowitz | I don’t think they sued | Apr 16 20:20 |
| schestowitz | They live in a land where justice is optional | Apr 16 20:20 |
| *amd-linux has quit (Client Quit) | Apr 16 20:21 | |
| Balrog | schestowitz: this video is encoded with the experimental theora encoder | Apr 16 20:21 |
| schestowitz | That’s fine | Apr 16 20:21 |
| Balrog | their thoughts will betray them | Apr 16 20:21 |
| Balrog | it may not play in old versions of VLC | Apr 16 20:21 |
| schestowitz | RMS got the German authorities worried yesterday. He called for abolishment of EPO. | Apr 16 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Signs of tender corruption? Government won’t say which companies competed: http://www.itwire.com/content/… | Apr 16 20:23 |
| Balrog | yeah … explain | Apr 16 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: see the video | Apr 16 20:23 |
| Balrog | I am looking at it | Apr 16 20:24 |
| Balrog | seems like it was encoded with the ‘stable’ theora codec … quality could be better | Apr 16 20:24 |
| amarsh04 | schmidt was at sun before novell | Apr 16 20:24 |
| Balrog | compare the 400kbps stream that I posted | Apr 16 20:24 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: yes, I know… Java | Apr 16 20:28 |
| schestowitz | And now Novell is screwing with Java | Apr 16 20:28 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: URL? | Apr 16 20:28 |
| Balrog | for novell / java | Apr 16 20:29 |
| amarsh04 | first page of the itwire article is at http://www.itwire.com/conten… – I prefer to get the first page of a story | Apr 16 20:29 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: accident | Apr 16 20:29 |
| amarsh04 | no problem, just a personal preference schetowitz | Apr 16 20:33 |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz rather | Apr 16 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Aye |
Apr 16 20:34 |
| schestowitz | I’ve noticed that BoycottNovell’s monthly traffic now exceeds 200GB | Apr 16 20:36 |
| Balrog | wow. how do you pay for hosting? Do you have one of those ‘unlimited bandwidth’ accounts? | Apr 16 20:36 |
| Balrog | looks like my server is getting some hits | Apr 16 20:36 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@p57A962AE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 16 20:36 | |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Apr 16 20:37 | |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Shane pays using the ads | Apr 16 20:42 |
| schestowitz | In 2 days we’ll publish post #6000 | Apr 16 20:43 |
| Balrog | I know. But I block nearly all ads, and definitely flash ads | Apr 16 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Our limit is 500GB/month | Apr 16 20:44 |
| schestowitz | It used to be a lot lower in 2007 | Apr 16 20:44 |
| Balrog | there are these hosting companies that promise “unlimited space” and “unlimited transfer”. Is this true? | Apr 16 20:45 |
| schestowitz | We have good endurance shelf life in the sense that old articles still get viewed a lot | Apr 16 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Which is why I proofread super-carefully, which I wasn’t doing back in the days (2006) | Apr 16 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: it’s bull | Apr 16 20:46 |
| schestowitz | We got told off for too much CPU | Apr 16 20:46 |
| schestowitz | There are hidden limits | Apr 16 20:46 |
| Balrog | ahh. | Apr 16 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Like CPU limits | Apr 16 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Others have the same issue | Apr 16 20:46 |
| Balrog | yes there are cpu limits :/ | Apr 16 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Bob Sutor (IBM VP) and Rick Lerbaum/DeviceGuru for example | Apr 16 20:47 |
| schestowitz | From them I actually heard it first hand | Apr 16 20:47 |
| schestowitz | It’s like illness when you publish something important and people can’t listen | Apr 16 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Like coming to deliver a speech an hour too late or something | Apr 16 20:47 |
| schestowitz | And if the host’s suspension is to blame, then it’s avoidable and obnoxious | Apr 16 20:48 |
| schestowitz | In schestowitz.com I’ve not written anything new in years | Apr 16 20:48 |
| schestowitz | it still does about 10k pages/day | Apr 16 20:49 |
| schestowitz | BN is around 30k (awstats count) | Apr 16 20:49 |
| schestowitz | It changes one’s perception of publishing in journals, presenting at conferences, or submitting news to editors (slow, cumbersome) | Apr 16 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Another reason it’s addictive: shelf life | Apr 16 20:51 |
| schestowitz | With news/journals, they cease to be read quickly (1-2 days for newspaper, one week for magazines, at most months//years for scientific journals). With Web sites it’s nothing like that; people use search facilities and judge by relevance, not age. | Apr 16 20:52 |
| schestowitz | The Internet is a wonderful thing. What’s more ‘wonderful’ is people who adamantly refuse to move to it (WSJ, scientists) and therefore get left behind, leaving all the readership to others. It’s funny to see the RIAA/MPAA having the same crisis and not knowing how to handle it; they abuse artists | Apr 16 20:54 |
| Balrog | wi3 | Apr 16 20:58 |
| Balrog | sorry | Apr 16 20:58 |
| schestowitz | the FSF was happy about the RMS videos. I told them it was located in Philadelphia, weeks ago. | Apr 16 20:58 |
| Balrog | using irssi  |
Apr 16 20:58 |
| Balrog | …weeks ago? | Apr 16 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they’ll graft it to their server | Apr 16 20:59 |
| schestowitz | A month? | Apr 16 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, their webmaster knows about it now | Apr 16 20:59 |
| DeamonFC | heh, I still have yet to take Windows 2003 down | Apr 16 20:59 |
| Balrog | you mean when I sent you the preliminary copy? | Apr 16 20:59 |
| DeamonFC | if you cough, Windows Vista or 7 will blue screen | Apr 16 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes | Apr 16 21:01 |
| Balrog | ok | Apr 16 21:01 |
| schestowitz | DeamonFC: will post that IE8 link aroudn | Apr 16 21:02 |
| schestowitz | BTW, you misspell daemon on purpose? | Apr 16 21:02 |
| DeamonFC | schestowitz: That’s just asinine, I even read them touting it as a feature of Windows Vista | Apr 16 21:02 |
| DeamonFC | like it would take them any effort at all to give XP users | Apr 16 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Damon Football Club | Apr 16 21:03 |
| DeamonFC | schestowitz: They had a Q&A about why they didn’t backport more security features to XP and their reason was it would take massive architectural changes | Apr 16 21:04 |
| DeamonFC | but here we have something so simple that every other browser has it | Apr 16 21:04 |
| schestowitz | IE still loses share | Apr 16 21:06 |
| schestowitz | They can’t reverse the trend for Windows, either. | Apr 16 21:06 |
| schestowitz | They just dump it., | Apr 16 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is on a price war it can’t sustain. It tries to starve Linux vendors before it goes bankrupt. | Apr 16 21:06 |
| DeamonFC | I think Opera 10 is my favorite Windows browser | Apr 16 21:08 |
| DeamonFC | starting to grow on me for Linux now that they’ve made that version attempt to integrate better with the system | Apr 16 21:08 |
| schestowitz | I tried it and it was good. But it’s not FOSS, so I wait until they change the licence. | Apr 16 21:12 |
| schestowitz | They hurt themselves | Apr 16 21:12 |
| DeamonFC | schestowitz: If they went open source they’d go under | Apr 16 21:12 |
| schestowitz | If they were FOSS before (no download free anyway), Linux would have bundled Opera AGES ago | Apr 16 21:13 |
| DeamonFC | because nobody would have any reason to pay them to have Opera Mobile | Apr 16 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Opera was good in 2003 | Apr 16 21:13 |
| schestowitz | But can’t be bundled due to licence | Apr 16 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Then came Firefox 0.9 | Apr 16 21:13 |
| DeamonFC | well, Firefox is mainly subsidized by cash infusions from Google | Apr 16 21:13 |
| DeamonFC | and they themselves have a license | Apr 16 21:14 |
| DeamonFC | unless you compile an unbranded version, you are bound by that | Apr 16 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Is MPL formally OSI approved? | Apr 16 21:19 |
| DeamonFC | probably, but then again, so is the MSPL |
Apr 16 21:33 |
| woofy | someone from this channel | Apr 16 21:33 |
| woofy | should type /join ##jswolfbot | Apr 16 21:34 |
| woofy | and !join | Apr 16 21:34 |
| woofy | in there | Apr 16 21:34 |
| DeamonFC | schestowitz: Firefox itself is not just MPL | Apr 16 21:34 |
| DeamonFC | you have to agree to the Firefox EULA | Apr 16 21:34 |
| DeamonFC | schestowitz: http://www.dell.com/content/products… | Apr 16 21:36 |
| woofy | what does it restrict you to, DeamonFC? | Apr 16 21:36 |
| DeamonFC | the one with XP is only $20 more, but it has twice the space on the SSD | Apr 16 21:36 |
| DeamonFC | so you could just buy the XP one and put Linux on it and you still got a better dead | Apr 16 21:36 |
| DeamonFC | *deal | Apr 16 21:36 |
| DeamonFC | I suppose MS is paying them to do tha | Apr 16 21:36 |
| DeamonFC | so it encourages more XP sales and they can point to the numbers | Apr 16 21:37 |
| DeamonFC | even if people ultimately use Linux | Apr 16 21:37 |
| woofy | DeamonFC, m$ doesn’t encourage | Apr 16 21:37 |
| woofy | it makes ultimates | Apr 16 21:38 |
| woofy | ultimatums | Apr 16 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 16 21:39 |
| schestowitz | DeamonFC: same story with OLPC | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | It’s supposed to make stories for them | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | BUT ALSO | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | They try to block ISV Support | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Keeping Linux “at bay” | Apr 16 21:40 |
| DeamonFC | I notice the ones with Windows tend to be the same price or not a lot more | Apr 16 21:40 |
| DeamonFC | and usually double the RAM or storage or something | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/14/no-c… | Apr 16 21:40 |
| schestowitz | According to many respectable sources, Microsoft dried up almost all its savings | Apr 16 21:44 |
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| woofy | nice to hear | Apr 16 21:50 |
| *woofy will be glad to see win7 failure | Apr 16 21:50 | |
| woofy | because people will start to understand that drm is a failure | Apr 16 21:51 |
| woofy | even for hardware | Apr 16 21:51 |
| woofy | too bad it’s drm ready | Apr 16 21:51 |
| silentivm | I guess Win7 will be the first version of Windows which I will not use at all. | Apr 16 21:53 |
| silentivm | (I briefly tried Vista) | Apr 16 21:53 |
| DeamonFC | I always at least wait for the first service pack | Apr 16 21:57 |
| DeamonFC | that way it isn’t a total disaster | Apr 16 21:57 |
| DeamonFC | in vista’s case though, I don’t think even the second SP will save it | Apr 16 21:58 |
| silentivm | yep, but I don’t really care | Apr 16 21:58 |
| DeamonFC | well, they rush the stuff out, it has thousands of bugs, then by the time they have the kinks worked out they retire it and start again | Apr 16 21:59 |
| DeamonFC | but if you at least wait for SP1, all the really heinous stuff is usually fixe | Apr 16 21:59 |
| DeamonFC | *fixed | Apr 16 21:59 |
| silentivm | I hope so | Apr 16 21:59 |
| DeamonFC | it’s not like people will stop making software that runs on XP soon | Apr 16 22:00 |
| DeamonFC | and it will keep getting bug fixes for another 5 years or so | Apr 16 22:00 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:01 |
| silentivm | at the university where I study, all PCs still run XP | Apr 16 22:01 |
| silentivm | brand-new machines with XP | Apr 16 22:01 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:01 |
| DeamonFC | so I’d imagine that by the time they bury Vista and Windows 7 is on it’s first service pack, half of Windows users will still be on XP | Apr 16 22:01 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:01 |
| DeamonFC | I used Windows 2000 until XP SP1 | Apr 16 22:02 |
| silentivm | Windows 2000? I’ve only ran it on a VM | Apr 16 22:03 |
| silentivm | but I know some people which still use it | Apr 16 22:03 |
| DeamonFC | Yeah, Windows 2000 wasn’t bad | Apr 16 22:03 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:03 |
| DeamonFC | no product activator, no fluff, fairly stable |
Apr 16 22:03 |
| DeamonFC | everything Vista isn’t | Apr 16 22:03 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:03 |
| silentivm | I used Vista briefly, when it was still new | Apr 16 22:04 |
| DeamonFC | I don’t know how Microsoft managed to fall so hard so fast | Apr 16 22:04 |
| silentivm | enough for me deciding not to touch it anymore | Apr 16 22:04 |
| DeamonFC | I got a load of Vista and had a major WTF moment | Apr 16 22:04 |
| DeamonFC | it’s not that I even mind paying, but I don’t like things that intrude on me | Apr 16 22:04 |
| silentivm | I don’t mind paying for goods tuff | Apr 16 22:05 |
| silentivm | *good stuff | Apr 16 22:05 |
| silentivm | but for a bloated OS? no, thank you very much | Apr 16 22:05 |
| DeamonFC | you have to figure that theoretically you could buy a copy of XP in 2001 and still be using it several computers and 13 years later before it’s unsupported | Apr 16 22:05 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:06 |
| DeamonFC | nLite can even slipstream service packs for you | Apr 16 22:06 |
| silentivm | yep, never tried it though | Apr 16 22:06 |
| schestowitz | I know a lobbyist who says he likes Vista | Apr 16 22:06 |
| DeamonFC | so it comes down to like a whopping $15 a year to use Windows | Apr 16 22:06 |
| DeamonFC | in that case | Apr 16 22:06 |
| schestowitz | It gives him more credibility as pro-FOSS advocate | Apr 16 22:06 |
| schestowitz | If he says he likes Vista, he can’t be anti-MS, can he? | Apr 16 22:06 |
| silentivm | I guess he can’t | Apr 16 22:07 |
| DeamonFC | Microsoft doesn’t like that so they’re trying to get to where they can make you pay the same money or more, and then release a new Windows every 3 years or so | Apr 16 22:07 |
| DeamonFC | that way they can raise the price over 450% and have it appear to be the same | Apr 16 22:07 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 16 22:08 |
| DeamonFC | I love the people that where you tell them Windows Ultimate is $400 they tell you to get OEM for $275 | Apr 16 22:11 |
| DeamonFC | but OEM can’t be reactivated on a new PC later | Apr 16 22:11 |
| DeamonFC | so you end up paying $550 or $825 to get out of paying $400 | Apr 16 22:12 |
| DeamonFC | if you go through 1 or 2 new computers in 10 years | Apr 16 22:12 |
| DeamonFC | (likely) | Apr 16 22:12 |
| silentivm | yes, this is why I avoid computers with preloaded Windows | Apr 16 22:12 |
| silentivm | if I can’t reuse the license on another machine, then no, thanks | Apr 16 22:13 |
| DeamonFC | that’s just a con game | Apr 16 22:13 |
| DeamonFC | so the software is worthless and your money is wasted if that motherboard bites it | Apr 16 22:13 |
| DeamonFC | or you need a newer system | Apr 16 22:13 |
| DeamonFC | |
Apr 16 22:13 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:13 |
| woofy | i seriously don’t get it | Apr 16 22:14 |
| woofy | why people buy windows | Apr 16 22:14 |
| DeamonFC | I have a corporate license, so I’ve never seen the product activator | Apr 16 22:14 |
| woofy | more than 50% of them buy it just as oem | Apr 16 22:14 |
| DeamonFC | I just slipstreamed the serial number into the installer | Apr 16 22:14 |
| woofy | may be | Apr 16 22:14 |
| silentivm | maybe because they think they HAVE to | Apr 16 22:15 |
| DeamonFC | there are advantages and disadvantages of Windows | Apr 16 22:15 |
| DeamonFC | but the advantages have been fewer and fewer lately | Apr 16 22:15 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:16 |
| DeamonFC | I think one analogy I heard about Linux was that it’s like living in a house that’s permanently under construction | Apr 16 22:16 |
| silentivm | I’ve seen this one | Apr 16 22:16 |
| DeamonFC | You’ll have issues that are there in one release and gone with the next | Apr 16 22:16 |
| DeamonFC | and then you’re dealing with entirely new bugs | Apr 16 22:17 |
| silentivm | yes | Apr 16 22:17 |
| DeamonFC | that’s really the only thing good I can say about Windows, is that they don’t tend to add or trade bugs once it’s released | Apr 16 22:18 |
| DeamonFC | so with Linux there tend to be two kinds of distributions, ones that release constantly and have lots of bugs, and ones that are “stable” and don’t have something you need | Apr 16 22:19 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 16 22:20 |
| DeamonFC | If Nvidia would release a x86-64 driver for FreeBSD, I’d like to go to that really | Apr 16 22:20 |
| DeamonFC | I use it on my laptop and love it | Apr 16 22:20 |
| silentivm | I never really got into BSDs | Apr 16 22:21 |
| silentivm | maybe because Linux works extremely well on both my machines | Apr 16 22:21 |
| DeamonFC | PC-BSD has a worthwhile BSD system for desktop users | Apr 16 22:21 |
| silentivm | I know | Apr 16 22:21 |
| DeamonFC | and it has ZFS too |
Apr 16 22:21 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:22 |
| woofy | silentivm, you’re rare | Apr 16 22:22 |
| silentivm | I know | Apr 16 22:22 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:22 |
| DeamonFC | but FreeBSD 8 will support Linux 2.6 system calls | Apr 16 22:22 |
| DeamonFC | so suddenly a lot more Linux only stuff will work | Apr 16 22:22 |
| silentivm | I guess I just got lucky with my hardware | Apr 16 22:22 |
| silentivm | great | Apr 16 22:23 |
| DeamonFC | that’s currently what you have to do to get Flash 10 working | Apr 16 22:23 |
| DeamonFC | run it in the Linux Firefox |
Apr 16 22:23 |
| silentivm | hmm | Apr 16 22:23 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:24 |
| DeamonFC | the reliance on just a few critical pieces of proprietary software can make an otherwise perfect system unusable if the vendor won’t support it | Apr 16 22:24 |
| silentivm | yes | Apr 16 22:24 |
| DeamonFC | look at how much stuff uses Flash and how many people have Nvidia cards | Apr 16 22:24 |
| DeamonFC | between those two companies, they’ve crippled FreeBSD for many people | Apr 16 22:25 |
| silentivm | exactly… I still hope that swfdec/gnash get to the same level as the official Flash plug-in | Apr 16 22:25 |
| DeamonFC | yeah, Swfdec was catching up to Flash 9 | Apr 16 22:26 |
| silentivm | I hope it catches up to Flash 10 someday | Apr 16 22:26 |
| DeamonFC | but now Flash 10 does so many new things that Swfdec is that much further behind it | Apr 16 22:26 |
| DeamonFC | then Adobe releases Flash 11 |
Apr 16 22:26 |
| silentivm | |
Apr 16 22:26 |
| DeamonFC | but I mean the benchmark of a good flash plugin used to be “it plays youtube” | Apr 16 22:27 |
| DeamonFC | now it’s “Can I use my mic and camera” and “Is it GPU accelerated so it won’t eat my CPU?” | Apr 16 22:27 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 16 22:27 |
| DeamonFC | that brings me to the instant messengers, Pidgin doesn’t support voice and video and likely won’t, and everytime aMSN and Gyachi catch up with MSN and Yahoo, MSN and Yahoo change the protocol | Apr 16 22:29 |
| DeamonFC | so trying to voice conference on Linux becomes a pain because the sheer number of Windows users | Apr 16 22:30 |
| DeamonFC | Yeah Ekiga works but nobody knows what it is or will download it just cause of you | Apr 16 22:30 |
| silentivm | most of my Windows-using friends complain about lack of voice/video support on Pidgin | Apr 16 22:31 |
| DeamonFC | so software is always standardized by the least common denominator | Apr 16 22:31 |
| silentivm | yes | Apr 16 22:31 |
| DeamonFC | not governments, industries, or self-appointed bureaucrats | Apr 16 22:31 |
| balzac | That’s why you have to attack a brand | Apr 16 22:32 |
| balzac | such as microsoft | Apr 16 22:32 |
| DeamonFC | the ISO, the ECMA, the IEEE, the W3C, and the Open Group have all failed | Apr 16 22:32 |
| DeamonFC | even when they define a standard, it leaves it open to interpretation or “extension” | Apr 16 22:32 |
| DeamonFC | so there’s a million ways to contrive compliance without really having that mean anything | Apr 16 22:33 |
| DeamonFC | Mac OS X is UNIX, so is Solaris, so that means I can run UNIX binaries on either? No it doesn’t. So that means I can port applications? Only with partial rewrites or really trivial applications | Apr 16 22:34 |
| DeamonFC | so the meaning of a standard just kind of breaks down | Apr 16 22:34 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxI3r… | Apr 16 22:34 | |
| DeamonFC | Microsoft isn’t standardized by anything other than their own specs, but they’re the only ones that can tell you what Windows NT is | Apr 16 22:35 |
| MinceR | if osx is unix, so is android :> | Apr 16 22:35 |
| DeamonFC | so people see them as a safer bet | Apr 16 22:35 |
| DeamonFC | now if there was a dozen operating systems by a dozen vendors with only a vague core NT specification, you could easily fall into the UNIX trap | Apr 16 22:36 |
| balzac | ^_^ | Apr 16 22:36 |
| DeamonFC | cause they’d all add or remove or botch things in their own ways | Apr 16 22:36 |
| DeamonFC | just like UNIX | Apr 16 22:37 |
| MinceR | i don’t see NT avoiding botches |
Apr 16 22:37 |
| DeamonFC | MinceR: My point is there is one NT, and there are dozens of “UNIX” | Apr 16 22:38 |
| DeamonFC | but the UNIX systems are so far off from each other that they are all their own system | Apr 16 22:39 |
| DeamonFC | it’s confusing, it’s hard to support, and if a hardware or software maker gets something that works on one of the dozen, they only have 11 more versions to deal with or write for | Apr 16 22:40 |
| trmanco | http://www.defectivebydesign.org/impe… | Apr 16 22:40 |
| DeamonFC | but there would have to be a mass reunification or die off in the UNIX world and some real solid specs with penalties for violating them | Apr 16 22:42 |
| DeamonFC | for any sort of real standard to emerge | Apr 16 22:42 |
| balzac | DeamonFC: nothing I know has been discovered to replace money as an organizing principle | Apr 16 22:43 |
| DeamonFC | money is what’s causing UNIX incompatibility | Apr 16 22:44 |
| balzac | yeah, well money is the solution to that problem | Apr 16 22:44 |
| DeamonFC | if Solaris, Mac OS, AIX, HP-UX, etc died off | Apr 16 22:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-… | Apr 16 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Takes the piss of out Bush | Apr 16 22:44 |
| DeamonFC | Linux and FreeBSD are similar enough that they could develop some binary compatibility both ways | Apr 16 22:45 |
| schestowitz | balzac: watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0… and skip to 3:00 | Apr 16 22:48 |
| MinceR | DeamonFC: this sounds like the usual stupid “too many distros” argument | Apr 16 22:48 |
| MinceR | it would constrain innovation | Apr 16 22:49 |
| MinceR | and stop linux/unix from being what makes it great | Apr 16 22:49 |
| MinceR | perhaps there should be a programmatically testable specification | Apr 16 22:49 |
| MinceR | you could run it and it would tell you whether whatever you’re running it on conforms to some standard | Apr 16 22:50 |
| DeamonFC | meh, there are an asinine number of distribution | Apr 16 22:50 |
| MinceR | (it would probably need a vm) | Apr 16 22:50 |
| DeamonFC | forked over the dumbest reasons | Apr 16 22:50 |
| MinceR | certifications are only good for showing off you have money | Apr 16 22:50 |
| MinceR | so, does the number of distros cause you physical pain or something? | Apr 16 22:51 |
| MinceR | should distros like gobolinux and nixos be forbidden by law? | Apr 16 22:51 |
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| MinceR | should people be forbidden to change the default theme in ubuntu and make a livecd of it for personal use? | Apr 16 22:51 |
| MinceR | anyway, who would decide which distros get to stay? | Apr 16 22:52 |
| DeamonFC | changing the theme doesn’t make it incompatible | Apr 16 22:52 |
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| DeamonFC | forking Debian made them incompatible in some cases | Apr 16 22:52 |
| DeamonFC | if they were a permanent fork you’d get RPM-distro syndrome | Apr 16 22:52 |
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| MinceR | the symptom of rpm-distro syndrome is that the distro uses rpm, right? :> | Apr 16 22:58 |
| schestowitz | LMAO http://www.defectivebydesign.org/imp… | Apr 16 22:58 |
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| MinceR | gn | Apr 16 23:16 |
| silentivm | gn | Apr 16 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Could this be related to Mono backlash following Microsoft’s lawsuit? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/16/jo-re… | Apr 16 23:57 |
| schestowitz | I asked some people about Wikipedia’s licence and thanked them for clarifying re: Wikipedia licence leaving the GNU, potentially. If RMS approves, then all is good. Turns out he’s cool with that,. | Apr 16 23:59 |
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