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06.04.08

#boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 3rd, 2008

Posted in Boycott Novell, IRC Logs at 10:32 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

dsmith_ http://shop.lenovo.coms… Jun 02 23:51
dsmith_ look under operating system Jun 02 23:51
dsmith_ ThinkPad PC DOS License Jun 02 23:52
dsmith_ i know for a fact that the video and wireless will work just by reading the specs Jun 02 23:52
dsmith_ schestowitz: I have no need for ie7 PERIOD Jun 02 23:54
schestowitz Me neither. Jun 02 23:55
schestowitz It’s a shame they don’t just sell people hardware. They certify for Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE, IIRC, at least at Lenovo. Jun 02 23:55
schestowitz They pocket the savings (OS) though. Jun 02 23:56
schestowitz $11.25 Jun 02 23:58
dsmith_ i saw that Jun 03 00:00
[H]omer I seem to make a lot of people very nervous whenever I enter any forum and start talking about Mono, Tom “spot” Callaway @ RedHat stepped into the debate on the fedora-devel list and started talking about lawyers Jun 03 00:00
schestowitz It would be valuable to know how/why this is. How much is Novell paid for SLED? How much does Novell then pass to Microsoft? None of this is public info. I look at the SEC filings. It’s too abstract. Jun 03 00:00
schestowitz BTW, someone mailed me about Mono half an hour ago. Verdict: Mono is worse than Silverlight (PJ says so). Jun 03 00:01
schestowitz Moonlight, I mean, not Silverfish. Jun 03 00:02
[H]omer I don’t understand why they so relentlessly pursue Mono, like it’s some kind of essential component Jun 03 00:02
schestowitz I ought to urge Groklaw to publish an article with layer’s advice on Mono too. Jun 03 00:02
schestowitz layer/lawyer Jun 03 00:02
[H]omer I wouldn’t mind seeing a copy of that verdict Jun 03 00:02
schestowitz Wait. I’ll mail her. Jun 03 00:03
schestowitz OK done. “Citing your article on Moonlight, Fedora has just added it to its exclusions list. Would you mind doing a similar analysis of Mono?” Jun 03 00:04
dsmith_ lenovo also offeres DOS work stations Jun 03 00:05
[H]omer The Fedora hierarchy seem to have me “red flagged” as an immediate escalation case. I assume they blame me for killing Gobuntu, and it makes them nervous Jun 03 00:05
schestowitz How do they know about Gobuntu? Jun 03 00:05
[H]omer They all know Jun 03 00:06
[H]omer My name was clearly shown in the Gobuntu mailing list archives Jun 03 00:06
schestowitz They would be foolish to ignore the iissue. Jun 03 00:06
schestowitz They hired several attorneys recently. Jun 03 00:06
[H]omer Who … Canonical? Jun 03 00:06
schestowitz They know Microsoft is worried enough to terrorise. Jun 03 00:06
[H]omer Oh Rad Hat Jun 03 00:07
schestowitz No, Red Hat. Jun 03 00:07
schestowitz They got some top guns. Jun 03 00:07
schestowitz It’s telling. They foresee something. Jun 03 00:07
[H]omer Yeah, they do seem exceptionally nervous ATM Jun 03 00:07
[H]omer I feel Patent Trolls rising from the hellmouth Jun 03 00:08
schestowitz Sam is attacking the Eee now. http://www.itwire.com/conte… Jun 03 00:09
schestowitz The head/CTO of Xandros told me that Asus is separate from Microsoft. Jun 03 00:09
[H]omer Because it betrayed Free Software by switching to XP? Jun 03 00:09
schestowitz Could he have lied? I never knew. Jun 03 00:09
schestowitz The recession ain’t helping us against the patent trolling. it makes aggression. Jun 03 00:10
schestowitz Asustek Predicts Eee PC Sales Will Double Next Year http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/… Jun 03 00:11
[H]omer Oh I see, Sam is arguing that the Eee is a Trojan Horse, because it runs Ballnux Jun 03 00:11
[H]omer Yeah well, a lot of people wipe it and put on a better distro Jun 03 00:12
schestowitz FTA: “ Jun 03 00:12
schestowitz No, this kind of patent deal works through the fear factor. Once there is a sufficient large number of people using the software that is susceptible to the FUD factor, the company which has IP in the mix begins a campaign through issuing warnings of one kind or the other.” Jun 03 00:12
dsmith_ LOL..  In other news the number of eggs thrown at Steve Balmer by angry Europeans will double. Jun 03 00:12
[H]omer lol Jun 03 00:12
schestowitz So… Jun 03 00:12
[H]omer I hope he likes omelets Jun 03 00:13
schestowitz Perhaps Microsoft lets Asus spread it freely, but will send Fester with the grease gun in later. Jun 03 00:13
[H]omer Hmm, no army of MS Shills in Sam’s comment section this time. How unusual Jun 03 00:14
[H]omer I think they’ve started to back off due to new EU laws on astroturfing Jun 03 00:14
schestowitz *LOL* Jun 03 00:15
[H]omer Or is it UK laws? Jun 03 00:15
schestowitz Yes, Waugh attacks him a lot too. The ratings are gamed. Jun 03 00:15
[H]omer Whatever Jun 03 00:15
schestowitz EU. The UK is addressing just legalised bribery. Jun 03 00:15
[H]omer Waugh attacks nearly everyone … that’s just what he does Jun 03 00:15
[H]omer He has megalomania issues Jun 03 00:16
schestowitz Was it Keith who pointed that out? Someone from GNOME. Egomaniac/paranoid. Jun 03 00:17
schestowitz He misrepresents the project and now it’s like nobody in Groklaw would use or recommend GNOME. Especially because of him. Jun 03 00:17
schestowitz Same in FSDaily, but maybe for different reasons. Jun 03 00:18
[H]omer I don’t usually follow the Gnome list, except that time you pointed out RMS posting there Jun 03 00:18
[H]omer I’m gonna spend 10 mins catching up in COLA Jun 03 00:19
schestowitz More Novell boosting from Asay ( http://news.cnet.com/8301-… ). People who don’t understand Linux shouldn’t write much about it. Jun 03 00:27
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schestowitz dsmith, watch this: http://www.egg-attack.com/ Jun 03 00:34
dsmith_ lol Jun 03 00:39
dsmith_ funny game Jun 03 00:39
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schestowitz Dual one, too. Jun 03 00:41
schestowitz I don’t think I’ll spread the link though. It can be seen as immature. :-( Jun 03 00:42
schestowitz Hi, jbh Jun 03 00:42
jbh hiya Jun 03 00:42
jbh cooking dinner and reading up on the goings on for today Jun 03 00:43
jbh how’s the discussion going w/ fedora? Jun 03 00:43
schestowitz We’re hoping that GL will publish something about Mono. Jun 03 00:43
schestowitz PJ says Mono is worse than Moonlight. Jun 03 00:44
jbh ah, ok Jun 03 00:44
jbh sounds juicy ;) Jun 03 00:44
schestowitz I’m finding a good deal of positive Linux stories today. Jun 03 00:45
schestowitz Actually, like most companies that turn from underdogs to monopolies (like Linux in HPC and its good position in devices), it’s bound to be attacked. And attacks is what it gets ATM. Jun 03 00:46
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schestowitz hi, moparx Jun 03 02:43
schestowitz Note: PJ didn’t realise just how far Mono had reached. She thought Fedora was ‘clean’. Sam varghese claims that Eee PC is Mono-free, which is probably true. Jun 03 03:00
moparx hey Jun 03 03:12
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balzac Hey Roy, I really like your boycott novell website Jun 03 05:09
balzac I see lots of links on fsdaily.com and I usually read each one from boycottnovell.com Jun 03 05:09
balzac keep up the good work Jun 03 05:11
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schestowitz [belated] thanks. Didn’t see that. :-) Jun 03 05:19
dsmith_ yea I read your site like everyday along with a few others.. Jun 03 05:38
*tessier is glad to see more and more protests against the OOXML result at ISO Jun 03 05:45
tessier [H]omer: I used to read COLA almost 15 years ago. I haven’t read it at all in recent years because it is just pointless. Jun 03 05:46
tessier Nobody’s mind has ever been changed on COLA and nobody really discusses useful advocacy tactics on COLA> Jun 03 05:46
dsmith_ MS should just adopt ODF and continue on Jun 03 05:46
tessier It’s just trolls and partisans. Jun 03 05:46
dsmith_ instead of wasting all this time and money Jun 03 05:46
tessier dsmith_: Once again, preaching to the choir. :) Jun 03 05:47
dsmith_ aye Jun 03 05:47
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schestowitz Hi, baijum Jun 03 05:51
baijum Hi schestowitz Jun 03 05:51
schestowitz Tracy: yes, it’s a tad messy. Maybe it’ll improve, but the Munchkins attack more when there’s more pressure on Microsoft. Jun 03 05:52
schestowitz dsmith, Microsoft is in trouble (to a degree), so it’ll try /anything/ for MOOX Jun 03 05:52
schestowitz Without Office, do you know what’s left for Microsoft. Just some experimental new software and losing divisions. Jun 03 05:53
schestowitz The vast majority of Microsoft profits comes from just two divisions (source: Microsoft Watch). Jun 03 05:53
schestowitz ODF makes office suites almost a commodity. Like CMS software… Jun 03 05:54
tessier I am encouraged by the fact that only Windows and Office (which depends on Windows) make money for MS Jun 03 05:55
tessier And Windows and Office (especially Office) are what are most under attack by FOSS Jun 03 05:55
schestowitz Yes, Microsoft is trying the patent routine against office suites too (May 2007). Because, you know, Microsoft invested work processors and spreadsheets….. *rolls eyes* Jun 03 05:59
schestowitz word processors, I meant to type. Jun 03 06:00
tessier schestowitz: You think any of those Munchkins are somehow affiliated with MS? Would they really bother to participate in such base trolling? Jun 03 06:05
tessier I wish more of usenet were moderated. Jun 03 06:08
tessier Web forums really suck for chatting. Jun 03 06:08
schestowitz Yes, they are slow, scattered and cumbersome. Jun 03 06:18
schestowitz Those Munchkins are at least indirectly affiliated. amicus/billwg, for example, got exposed (Bill Weisgerber). He’s some sort of a marketing professor which, if I understand correctly, works with Microsoft in one way or another. Remember that payments are not made in the form of checks (classic bribery/AstroTurfing). These could be business partners that are rewarded differently. In the case of OOXML, Microsoft can offer consulting contracts Jun 03 06:21
schestowitz to sympathetic posters that shelter OOXML. Jun 03 06:21
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schestowitz News from Kenya: more signs of events around the apparent blackmail (Microsoft OOXML) Jun 03 06:38
hassanibraheem Kenya wasn’t in the news lately, right? Jun 03 06:39
schestowitz No, not quite Jun 03 06:42
schestowitz I’l blog this quickly. http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/0… Jun 03 06:42
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schestowitz I’m working on a set of posts: one on the XAML intrusion, one on new OOXML complaints, and one on Novell informecials. Jun 03 16:02
hassanibraheem schestowitz: nice :) Jun 03 16:03
hassanibraheem btw, I’m wondering… has anyone tried Adobe’s online office with Gnash/swfdec ? Jun 03 16:03
hassanibraheem because, guess what, Miguel is embracing it Jun 03 16:07
hassanibraheem on his blog Jun 03 16:07
hassanibraheem no surprise, his blog isn’t about Free Software after all Jun 03 16:07
schestowitz Really? Jun 03 16:25
hassanibraheem yup Jun 03 16:25
schestowitz I saw him advocating some Adobe s/w earlier today. Jun 03 16:25
schestowitz I though it was one of the binary wares. Jun 03 16:26
schestowitz thought Jun 03 16:26
schestowitz When you say Miguel embraces something, beware. Jun 03 16:26
schestowitz Miguel has virtually two bosses, like Steinman at Novell. Jun 03 16:27
hassanibraheem mmmmm, I meant he embraced adobe’s buzzword Jun 03 16:27
hassanibraheem not gnash or swfdec Jun 03 16:27
hassanibraheem (as he would care!! ) Jun 03 16:28
hassanibraheem http://tirania.org/blog/arch… Jun 03 16:28
schestowitz Oh, yeah… Jun 03 16:37
schestowitz I didn’t look at this for more than a moment at the time. His blog is just all # Jun 03 16:38
hassanibraheem schestowitz: check that http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/zd… Jun 03 16:56
schestowitz I’ve taken a look. What’s your assessment of it? I got Yahoo! fatigue! :-) Jun 03 16:59
hassanibraheem I’m quite confused about the situation Jun 03 17:00
hassanibraheem why would shareholders insist on fighting if microsoft said it lost interest!! Jun 03 17:00
hassanibraheem unless.. MS didn’t ;) Jun 03 17:01
schestowitz Which shareholders specifically? I’ve watched this closely since 2007 (Microsoft wanted to buy Yahoo! for $40/share). Some shareholders are plants, puppets. Jun 03 17:06
hassanibraheem the aggressive one, Icahn (guess that’s his name) Jun 03 17:07
hassanibraheem he bought massive shares in yahoo recently, and FCC approved it. Jun 03 17:08
hassanibraheem yup, Carl Icahn Jun 03 17:10
hassanibraheem http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/j… Jun 03 17:10
schestowitz Oh, he’s not an investor. Jun 03 17:41
schestowitz He is a bully for hire. Jun 03 17:41
hassanibraheem :D Jun 03 17:42
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Eruaran hullo Jun 03 17:57
hassanibraheem Eruaran: hi Jun 03 18:00
Eruaran hi :D Jun 03 18:00
Eruaran You guys have alot to answer for you know Jun 03 18:01
Eruaran I have to read the latest on boycottnovell every day now :P Jun 03 18:01
Eruaran And then I go back and read it again… and then I have to follow all the links… Jun 03 18:02
hassanibraheem yes, but it has to be done ;) Jun 03 18:03
Eruaran yes Jun 03 18:03
Eruaran good work guys, kudos… it must take up quite a lot of time though Jun 03 18:04
hassanibraheem it’s amazing that roy keeps it up, he is doing a great job gathering this data in one place :) Jun 03 18:05
Eruaran yes Jun 03 18:05
Eruaran I’ve thought of doing something like that… but I think I’d end up just leeching off roy :P Jun 03 18:06
Eruaran I’ll start a blog that only has one entry, a link to boycottnovell Jun 03 18:06
hassanibraheem :D Jun 03 18:07
Eruaran Out of my own personal interest I’ve been ‘googling’ for information on anything to do with the semantic desktop, and I noticed something that caught my attention a couple of weeks ago Jun 03 18:09
Eruaran But it wasn’t the article itself that was most interesting (although it was interesting). I couldn’t help but notice the Microsoft advertising and propaganda on the same page Jun 03 18:10
hassanibraheem u mean on the website? or within the article itself? Jun 03 18:10
Eruaran on the website Jun 03 18:11
hassanibraheem because for website ads, I even think linux.com had windows server ads for a while :D Jun 03 18:11
Eruaran next to the article Jun 03 18:11
Eruaran I thought it was ironic Jun 03 18:11
hassanibraheem it’s indeed Jun 03 18:11
hassanibraheem :D Jun 03 18:11
hassanibraheem what I really saw ironic about ads are those ads that quotes some IT people “we dumped linux for.. “ Jun 03 18:12
Eruaran What was to me most telling is that in this article and elsewhere all the plans of the free software world regarding the semantic desktop, or social semantic desktop are laid bare, its all out in the open for everyone to see. All the highly articulate information is freely available and freely shared. Microsoft could help itself to this information but appears indifferent and far more focussed on this kind of blanket Jun 03 18:12
Eruaran advertising (on linux sites) and the usual spin on their own mostly lacklustre products. Jun 03 18:12
Eruaran yeh, I read the article on itwire I think it was, where those stories were exposed as bogus Jun 03 18:14
hassanibraheem yes, I read an article too that eventually found out that the case study was about switching from windows 2003 to windows 2008 :D Jun 03 18:15
Eruaran yes lol Jun 03 18:15
schestowitz Thanks for the kind words, <Eruaran>. I’ve only just gotten back to the IRC channel. I’m going to post many links shortly. Jun 03 18:16
schestowitz Microsoft’s shill (yes, paid) Yankee Group recently showed that Server 2008 has worse uptime than Server 2003. Strange but true. Server 2008 is a Vista sibling. same code. Jun 03 18:18
Eruaran yw schestowitz… many links eh… its gonna be a late night for me then :P Jun 03 18:18
Eruaran I’m tempted to install kde 4.1 beta 1 Jun 03 18:23
Eruaran its sexy Jun 03 18:23
hassanibraheem I’m making that switch soon Jun 03 18:24
hassanibraheem from GNOME to KDE Jun 03 18:24
Eruaran :O Jun 03 18:24
hassanibraheem KDE4 has lots of potential (technically) but, it wasn’t enough reason for me Jun 03 18:25
hassanibraheem I decided to stick to GNOME because I know we won’t see big changes as soon as KDE because of the scheduling Jun 03 18:25
Eruaran I was gonna wait for 4.1 to get tagged but they’re encouraging me to install the beta in #kubuntu… Jun 03 18:25
hassanibraheem but, mono settled that decision :) Jun 03 18:25
Eruaran ah yes mono Jun 03 18:25
Eruaran I saw the list of dependancies Jun 03 18:26
Eruaran in ubuntu Jun 03 18:26
Eruaran bbl Jun 03 18:31
schestowitz I’ll be on 3.5 for quite some time. Jun 03 18:47
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schestowitz Just posted some links I’ve collected and I’m off for a while. I stay connected. Jun 03 18:48
hassanibraheem schestowitz: ok Jun 03 18:48
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  24. Open EPO Letter Bemoans Battistelli's Antisocial Autocracy Disguised/Camouflaged Under the Misleading Term “Social Democracy”

    Orwellian misuse of terms by the EPO, which keeps using the term "social democracy" whilst actually pushing further and further towards a totalitarian regime led by 'King' Battistelli



  25. EPO's Central Staff Committee Complains About Battistelli's Bodyguards Fetish and Corruption of the Media

    Even the EPO's Central Staff Committee (not SUEPO) understands that Battistelli brings waste and disgrace to the Office



  26. Translation of French Texts About Battistelli and His Awful Perception of Omnipotence

    The paradigm of totalitarian control, inability to admit mistakes and tendency to lie all the time is backfiring on the EPO rather than making it stronger



  27. 2016 in Review and Plans for 2017

    A look back and a quick look at the road ahead, as 2016 comes to an end



  28. Links 31/12/2016: Firefox 52 Improves Privacy, Tizen Comes to Middle East

    Links for the day



  29. Korea's Challenge of Abusive Patents, China's Race to the Bottom, and the United States' Gradual Improvement

    An outline of recent stories about patents, where patent quality is key, reflecting upon the population's interests rather than the interests of few very powerful corporations



  30. German Justice Minister Heiko Maas, Who Flagrantly Ignores Serious EPO Abuses, Helps Battistelli's Agenda ('Reform') With the UPC

    The role played by Heiko Maas in the UPC, which would harm businesses and people all across Europe, is becoming clearer and hence his motivation/desire to keep Team Battistelli in tact, in spite of endless abuses on German soil


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